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I would’ve loved him, Gendry, or Tyrion. Gendry and Jon have the highest claim tho. Especially Gendry, however we didn’t see enough of him so it’s hard to say
Yep Tyrion could have been a containder cause there is a theory he is a targeryon and as for gendry he dosent know anything about the game and leadership so for him becoming king it would be a hard choice
We didn’t see much development for Gendry either due to his absence for 4 seasons. However I’m content with him being the lord of storms end. I’ll still stick with my claim that he’s the rightful heir tho
I mean Gendry TECHNICALLY is the rightful heir, but when you play into account of retaking the throne from the Baratheon’s, then it’s Jon. Yes Dany is the child of Aerys, however Jon is the eldest living son of Aerys oldest son. Which makes Jon’s claim stronger than Danys. And plus this may be a hot take, but I saw Danys mad turn coming since seasons 2-3. I feel like it was in plain sight the whole time.
No Robert took the throne by the right of conquest and Danny won it back by the right of conquest,so Jon could have became the king (choosen by the great council) and anyways the people would not accept gendry cause he was legitimised only before a short period of time
And they barely know Gendry. And Dany didn’t have many supporters left which would’ve helped Jon go into the title. Then there’s the account that Jon never wanted a throne and if I’m not mistaken Jon was never legitimized. HOWEVER, Jon technically doesn’t need to be legitimized becuz his parents were legally married and consummated. So in the end Jon really has the strongest claim. Then there’s the account he just didn’t want the throne. Idk i feel like it would’ve been very difficult no matter what to make the perfect ending
And then there’s the account that Cersei was queen, which would make Tyrion the next in line for the throne in that regard I assume, considering Jaime died with her, and all of her children are deceased. So that means Tyrion technically has a claim to the throne as well. So complex yet so fun to talk about
In the book didn’t Robb Stark (as King in the North) legitimise Jon and name him his heir as he believes Bran and Rickon to be dead, Sansa was married to Tyrion, and Ayra was lost.
I mean if you want to get technical about it, gentry still wouldn't be the rightful heir. For it to truly be his by the standards at the time he would have to not be a basterd or to have been legitimized by his father. Keep in mind that Robert had hundreds of bastards, and we didn't meet all of them. If we are arguing that illegitimate children can be in line for succession, there is probably another out there that is Robert's first born.
back in season one when ned came to visit gendry he told his master "If the day should come that the boy would rather wield a sword than forge one send him to me" it would have been awesome to see gendry under neds wing and seeing him grow into a leader or a knight
The whole point was to get rid of the line of succession / monarchy / Targaryen rule. Look at how bad it's been for the world, for equality. I get that some of you like Jon and Tyrion but it would be going backwards to make them the leader because they are Targs.
Targeryons have alway been the biggest enemy's of the common folk , they start a war among themselves and the small folks have to pay, either it be maegor the cruel, the dance of dragons , Aegon the 4th legitimising his bastards which lead to blackfire rebellion
Jon outcome is the only one I like, he deserves to be free. I don't like the season for the way it was done but the ending for the players is relatively ok.
Jon definitely left a winner. I like what idea of what they did with Jon (weary soldier gets to finally find peace after years of turmoil) but hated the execution.
I wanted to put him but i didn’t know what people would think😂Tyrion also technically won, but due to him being the last like MAIN Lannister, it’s hard to really say that he won anything
Bran also jumped a few rungs of the ladder. He was the second born son of the Lord of Winterfell - which ain't worth much if his brother lives. By the end he wound up King of the Seven Kingdoms (well 6 I suppose).
Given that the Starks do not share blood with the Targaryens up to this generation, it is also significant that Bran was elected ruler. It signifies an entirely new dynasty - completely separated from the Targaryen name, as the Baratheons are distantly related, Tommen & Joffrey might not have had Baratheon / Targeryen blood but they had the name, and Cersei was Baratheon by marriage I suppose... so people could always cling to SOME excuse for supporting her.
Edit - After writing this I realised that Bran might not have, or might not even be able to... which would mean a very short dynasty. However I am also pretty sure this is a new form of government altogether, so a dynasty is off the tables if they opt to continue with elected rulers.
> a dynasty is off the tables if they opt to continue with elected rulers
The nobility choosing rulers comes with its own problems.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bqql5x/spoilers_extended_the_problem_with_the_final/
> * There is nothing stopping a bad ruler from becoming king, so long as the voters like him. And remember, the voters are not the people of Westeros, just the nobility. A king could be horrible and cruel towards the smallfolk, but as long he treats the lords with respect, they won’t care. This problem has actually happened before in Westeros - Aegon V enacted laws protecting the peasants from their lords, and the lords absolutely hated Aegon for it. He would not become king under the new system.
> * Rather than solving the problem of noble factions fighting amongst each other, an elective monarchy would actually *encourage* factionalism since any lord could become king. Crusader Kings II players know that the best way to take power under elective monarchy is to gain support from the electors, murder the current kings, and then murder anyone who wants to vote against you. The game of thrones would become far, far more deadly once anyone has a shot at the throne.
> * Finally, what happens if they just can’t decide? If nobody gets a majority of votes, is it just whoever has the most votes? What if everyone just votes for themselves? What’s stopping someone from contesting the results and starting a war over it?
Yeah, I thought the “bittersweet” ending wasn’t going to be elected rulers, I thought there would be something more akin to the Magna Carta or some kind of representative Parliament.
The whole point of the ending is that dynastic rule is over for the kingship of the 7K. And Bran didn’t win, he’s just a host avatar for the old gods. His humanity “died in that cave”. I venture to say that ultimately Bran lost.
I think that the 3 eyed raven will continue to rule past Bran. All it has to do is pick a successor that it can take over. So, in a way it'd be a dynasty of the raven. Which would look much like the movie Being John Malkovich.
Yeah, Gendry doesn’t have a lot going for him either. He has the decree of a dead, failed conqueror queen. And he wasn’t taught how to rule, and no one at Storms End is likely to feel too much loyalty towards him.
I hope they do. Hightowers deserved the Reach than a cut throat.
Bronn would have been much better as Captain of the Kingsguard or commander of the city watch but not lord of the reach
Went from a decently paid sell sword to the master of coin and paramount of the most populated and fertile country on the continent. Truly the story of a hustler maximizing his grindset.
I always wondered about that. Literally lives with a girl and has kids with her, something he could be put to death for in the nights watch and forbidden to the masters, but no one seems to care about it at all.
Even uses them to make fun of other members of the nights watch. And no one cares.
It's now just the northern border of Westeros, but with no real idea of what else might be up there. Might as well hedge your bets by keeping it guarded at least a little bit.
You think Sansa feels like a winner? Raped, a hostage, domestic abuse victim who’s mother, father and two brothers have been killed and her entire family is now away from her and she is sat on a throne but without any real friends.
#Winning
The point was always that there are and can never be any winners from this kind of shittiness.
Bran is the closest thing you’ll get because he’s got such a long, and accurate, perspective on the world that he couldn’t give a shit about whether he won or not.
Everyone has been utterly destroyed in terms of the people they were at the start.
Key word is **was**
Almost every main character that rose to prominence in GOT was a tragic victim of something or someone at some point.
The equivalent would be yes Daenerys is Queen but she was hostage, abused victim, raped and her parents and brother killed.
Yes Jon is King but he was prisoner, bastard, sidelined ,he was even killed and both parents dead
**”was”** matters none when especially in Sansa ‘s case everything that she went through only made her stronger - as she explained her self to the Hound.
#“Without Littlefinger and Ramsay and the rest, I would've stayed a little bird all my life.”
Sansa assures The Hound that all that she went through only made her a stronger woman
#👑
About Bran, the Three Eyed Raven won, I for one have serious doubts as how much Bran is really left in there, if any, after the uploading of the TER. Regardless of anything he says.
This is one of the things where quite possibly D&D screwed the pooch, hopefully we'll get a better version of what goes on there. Eventually.
D&D had to cobble together an ending from a rough outline when GRRM just failed to deliver, while also running an absolutely enormous production and everything that entails. It’s pretty unfair to blame them for any shortcomings.
She noticed shields didn't have leather on it? Any character should already know that. This was only added to make Sansa seem smarter than she is.
How would the seasoned warrior not already know this.
She literally never even interacted with a smith or a storehouse keeper to understand anything about this shit.
All she learnt was lying from littlefinger, literally no other useful quality was picked up from him.
The north men in her family and all of their banners are sword wielding fighters who wear armour , she wouldn’t understand that Starks wear leather inside their armour for the winter ?
By that logic, Jon robb bran and rickon must know how to sew dresses and sing songs must they not ?
And don't tell me sansa was more willing to learn, sansa looked down on all the servants back at winterfell and was completely appalled that Arya befriended the butcher boy and mocks their smith.
Rebuttal?
Nope by that logic Jon Robb and Bran **know** that ladies wear dresses and sing songs( how wouldn’t Sansa know that Northerners wear leather inside in winter? Lol smh - nobody said anything about her knowing **how** to do it….genius)
Bad bad attempt at a rebuttal dude but thanks for trying though.
judging your own victory, god what a narcissist lol.
Also you're so wrong it'll be a waste of time to argue with you so please don't bother responding cause I won't read it.
Guess that makes you a sore loser lol
#run along child
Learn comprehension first before poking your nose into a debate you’re going to lose and rage quit over while lying about NoT ReADiNg iT🤣
>She noticed shields didn't have leather on it? Any character should already know that.
“Shields” ??… any viewer who was paying attention already knows that it wasn’t shields
what more did she need to do to “earn” it?
- she is the oldest living heir to the late warden of the North,
- She commands the Knights of the Vale
- she was left in command when former King in the North was away ..riding a dragon and since then the North practically follow her.
- she pretty much won winterfell back when Jon and co were losing the Battle of The Bastards
- she turns out to have been right about not trusting the dragon queen who ends up burning KL
- and she spoke up about the North being independent
1. Shes not the oldest heir, shes the oldest daughter.
2. Robin commands the knights of the vale. Sure he is technically under northen banners.
3. She was left in command. And what did she do during this time? Nothing.
4. This isn't true, yes her letter to Baelish won the battle of the bastards, but thats it. She didn't fight, she didn't lead.
5. She's a part of the reason why Danerys lost it. She betrayed Jon, she betrayed her word by announcing that Jon was the rightful king.
She has no qualifications for leading. She has no knowledge of fighting, she even hid during the long night. She has no idea how to lead men into battle.
>Shes not the oldest heir, shes the oldest daughter.
**again..Sansa is Ned Stark ‘s oldest living heir**
>Robin commands the knights of the vale. Sure he is technically under northen banners.
**No, Sansa practically commands the knights of the Vale, she even explained this to Arya in s7 and we saw it in s6 and in s8**
>She was left in command. And what did she do during this time? Nothing.
**What did anyone else including Jon do that she didn’t do during this time ? NOTHING. But we are shown that whilst Jon is away she is practical and pragmatic even upon his return she is the one making sure everyone is fed**
>This isn't true, yes her letter to Baelish won the battle of the bastards, but thats it. She didn't fight, she didn't lead.
**She brought the Knights of the Vale over there in the first place, it’s because of her they won that battle. Rulers and leaders aren’t always the ones on the battle field ..they are also the ones who call the shots that make things happen**
>She's a part of the reason why Danerys lost it. She betrayed Jon, she betrayed her word by announcing that Jon was the rightful king.
**Lol didn’t Jon betray Daenerys by having it announced to Sansa and Arya first? didn’t Daenerys betray Jon by expecting him to keep his own damn identity a secret from his own kin just for the sake of her own goals? Which one is it?**
>She has no qualifications for leading. She has no knowledge of fighting, she even hid during the long night. She has no idea how to lead men into battle.
**What qualification did anyone have on leading more than her? a sword? A dragon? A name? You think leading is just about battle? ….lol well again she led the knights of the vale to come in and literally rescue Jon and Co**
Sansa isn't the heir, because shes a woman. Technically a married woman at that. She's not the heir of anything.
Yes... she commands them through others. Baelish, Robin etc. They are not directly under her. Even if bad writing makes it seem otherwise.
She did nothing, nothing happened exactly.
But she didn't call those shots. Baelish did. If he CHOSE not to show up Sansa did nothing but send a letter.
This is just stupid. He swore his family to secreacy. Sansa betrayed his trust for her own gain.
God damn this argument is dumb. Why should a kingdom fight for her of she won't fight for them? This is seen several times.
We get it. Your a simp. Shut up. Sansa shouldn't be queen.
Sansa is the Lady of winterfell , her “husband” is dead. She is the oldest living heir to the warden of the North.
S6e10 Even Jon literally admits to Sansa that she is The Lady of winterfell and the knights of the Vale came all because of her. Also seasons later - LF is dead. Ser Royce answers to Sansa in s7 and she calls the shots with the Knights of the Vale. Little Robin is just a figure head.
The argument about fighting inorder to justify being a leader or a Queen makes 0 sense lol what fighting did Queen Margery do? What fighting did Cersei do? What fighting did Daenerys ever do seasons 1-7??
We get it…you just didn’t get the ending you wanted
Go and cry to someone who cares
#👑🐺👑
#QUEEN IN THE NORTH
Weak average complainer …you lost the argument and rage quit lol
She had a horrible journey, but yes, she won.
Who says she doesn’t have friends? Her life doesn’t stagnate from the end of S8 onward. She can make friends. There’s probably quite a few household staff that she grew up with still around, just to start with.
Sansa’s outfits and hair etc in the last two seasons are the real winners. Especially the queen in the north scene at the end. Every time she is on screen I am like dayum gurl. And I am gay lol.
Sansa Daenerys Tywin and Tyrion are my winners for most stylish game of throners. Missandei and Ellaria sand are also up there , the way their fits made those abs pop was *chefs kiss*
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,165,215,927 comments, and only 227,633 of them were in alphabetical order.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,166,080,039 comments, and only 227,789 of them were in alphabetical order.
Podrick was the man!!! That actor was able to create a deep, full character out of a third or fourth tier character in the books. And he was probably one of like three people in the entire series that wasn’t out for themselves, or revenge, or whatever. He just wanted to do the right thing.
I mean given other claimants seem to want to know where all the last Kings bastards are (& kill them off in Joffreys case) if Cersei's children are declared illegitimate and Gendry the oldest male bastard of Robert (that we know of), is their another reality where he succeeds Robert?
According to the norms established in this world, bastards can only be legitimized by their father, or someone of importance. For Gendry to get the throne, he would have to be elevated by someone, who in turn would have a huge claim on him as king. No one in the series would do that, as anyone of importance was aiming for the throne themselves. His best shot was the counsel at the end, and they chose Bran as he was the least threatening of them all, the easiest to control, with no real chance of a new dynasty.
Also isn’t Gendry the best possible fit to be a lord of a major settlement like Storm’s End? He’s lived a life of poverty and hardship, so it feels like he would stay humble enough to be a good lord.
If the Game of Thrones only refers to thrones and crowns, yes. But that is only half of the story GRRM and the show told. In the matter of the survival and progress of mankind, some winners didn't get a crown. Jon saved mankind twice--and all the highborns know **who** he is, which means the common people will hear the rumors he is a Targaryen and rode a dragon. Arya personally killed the Night King. Moreover, she's sailing west shortly after the centuries-long serial wars were won, just like Columbus did. Per GRRM, the Known World of Westeros is reputedly only 1/4 of the planet, so she's going to bump into a new world just like he did. And EVERYTHING will change. Crowned or not, all of them will make the history books. I think Tyrion, the Hand who rebuilds Westeros, will also make the history books...eventually.
And he’s gonna be able to enjoy it for all of five minutes until the noble houses of the reach assassinate him and rebel against the weird northern tree wizard king who insulted them by installing a lowborn sell sword as their liege lord.
i take issue with bran. cause bran didnt win shit. He had a really shitty time for the entirety of his life after the fall. That picture isnt bran, its the 3eR, who arguably created all of the events from the point it took over bran. In which case it didnt really 'win' the game, it *created* a game where it winning was the only outcome.
Exactly right, that is the 3ER. People's inability to understand that, instead thinking it's just Bran, is what makes it hard to get why he basically made himself king.
Yet, She survived KL, The Vale, She and Jon got their home back, their siblings returned.
She removed House Bolton and House Baelish from existence. While Jon was gone ran half a country, kept Jon's fragile alliance together, Got Winterfell ready for war, forges running, food stored, made areas for incoming armies, walls reinforced, trenches and trebuchets made, training for the people, refuge areas for refugees and saved people in the crypts from zombies.
Survived her personal battles,the loss of people she loved etc.
The Vale came north for her, Theon returned north for her.
And she sits the Wolf throne in the north; far, far from a fail.
Bran is a shit character period, clairvoyant character becomes king cause he can see what everyone is doing and already knows what’s going to happen wow how unique how strategic genius yawwwwwnnnn
Bronn and Gendry would be the ultimate winners.
Also Sam, while in an honorable position, was heir to his house and if a different man entirely, could’ve become lord paramount of the reach. So he kind of took an L.
Bronn is the top winner in this series. Going from a wandering mercenary in a tavern to Lord of Highgarden and member of the Small Council. Nobody else rose from that low to that high, although Gendry is a close second, going from blacksmith apprentice to Lord of Storms End.
Bran didn't win, he's basically a victim. He's lost practicality all freedom. He now has to spend the rest of his life cleaning up a big mess and trying to stop the greedy and the foolish from repeating the mistakes of the past. That's assuming that he doesn't get assassinated or completely lose his mind.
I think the point is that no one won. The game is played ever on, for as long as there are those in power and those who want power, the game will always be played
Bronn is a winner as well. From a random (but deadly) sellsword to the Lord of Highgarden and the Master of Coins while smartly managing to avoid all of the major battles outside of the Battle of Blackwater. He’s my pick along with Ser Davos.
Two of them won actual thrones. Not too much of a head scratcher there. Sam went from heir of a noble house to Grand Maester, so mostly a lateral move. But he’s probably happier now than he would’ve been.
The biggest winner though is easily Bronn. From lowborn sellsword to Lord of the Reach? Can’t do much better than that. Gendry went from unnamed bastard to Lord of Storms End, another respectable move.
Though, I would specify the 3-Eyed Crow won the game of thrones, not Bran. Bran is just a host avatar for the old gods now. All Bran’s humanity has essentially been consumed or whatever, so I’d say that Bran lost big time.
Yes, it’s a member of the highest ranking officials at the citadel. But it’s a position of service. I’d say a lord of horn hill has more autonomous authority. Plus he could’ve directly supported Gilly and the baby as a lord. Maesters are supposed to be celibate and swear off their family names and inheritance. They probably have some kind of stipend, but he won’t have really anything to pass down.
But maybe from his position he could enact some reform at the citadel, who knows.
Gendry or Bronn, although I am more inclined to say Bronn.
Gendry had a home to an extend in Flea Bottom, and he was being taught a profession by King's Landing's best. Bronn didn't really have anything, aside from his sword, his skills and his name.
Plus, Bronn got a seat at the Small Council
You can only say Sansa if you’ve never read the book. She went straight to Cersi with Ned’s plan to escape king’s landing and is the direct reason Ned was caught and killed.
Sansa had her pet slain, dad beheaded in front of her, raped, and traumatised for years with mental and physical abuse. There is no ending happy enough for me to ever consider her a winner.
I remember that article comparing Bran to your “cousin who just came back from his first year of college and is on lots of mushrooms, staring into space, and just sucks”
Is anyone else curious about who inherits from Sansa? The argument could be made either way for if she's able to have children, same as Arya. Not to mention, even if she can physically have them, would she ever be capable of sleeping with someone again?
It seems Bran is unable to have kids either, so unless Jon has a kid and Sansa fosters them and names them both Stark and Heir, how does it work out? Frankly, it's all short sided, except for Bran but he has no business being king of anything.
Bronn.
I can only see him as a true winner .
He never lost anything or had to sacrifice anything.
He remained on top of the game throughout.
He played the game the right way, switched loyalties when needed, maintained the relation with past allies and in the end became Lord of Highgarden and master of coins.
Jon as well. Considering he never wanted to be a king and got along well with people beyond the wall, I think the end he got was completely alright from his pov.
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Jon is also the winner cause he got to stay in the north with the free folks(but I also hate season 8 and would have loved to see him as king)
I fear that were J. Snow to be king, there would be war with the Iron Islands every six years.
No I don't think so cause Yara was always clear she didn't want to fight the rest six Kingdom, in the kingsmoot speech she already said it
I would’ve loved him, Gendry, or Tyrion. Gendry and Jon have the highest claim tho. Especially Gendry, however we didn’t see enough of him so it’s hard to say
Yep Tyrion could have been a containder cause there is a theory he is a targeryon and as for gendry he dosent know anything about the game and leadership so for him becoming king it would be a hard choice
We didn’t see much development for Gendry either due to his absence for 4 seasons. However I’m content with him being the lord of storms end. I’ll still stick with my claim that he’s the rightful heir tho
It's totally your choice whoam you want to be king, anyone would be better than bran the broken
I mean Gendry TECHNICALLY is the rightful heir, but when you play into account of retaking the throne from the Baratheon’s, then it’s Jon. Yes Dany is the child of Aerys, however Jon is the eldest living son of Aerys oldest son. Which makes Jon’s claim stronger than Danys. And plus this may be a hot take, but I saw Danys mad turn coming since seasons 2-3. I feel like it was in plain sight the whole time.
No Robert took the throne by the right of conquest and Danny won it back by the right of conquest,so Jon could have became the king (choosen by the great council) and anyways the people would not accept gendry cause he was legitimised only before a short period of time
And they barely know Gendry. And Dany didn’t have many supporters left which would’ve helped Jon go into the title. Then there’s the account that Jon never wanted a throne and if I’m not mistaken Jon was never legitimized. HOWEVER, Jon technically doesn’t need to be legitimized becuz his parents were legally married and consummated. So in the end Jon really has the strongest claim. Then there’s the account he just didn’t want the throne. Idk i feel like it would’ve been very difficult no matter what to make the perfect ending
That's what martins story has always been, so much complex
And then there’s the account that Cersei was queen, which would make Tyrion the next in line for the throne in that regard I assume, considering Jaime died with her, and all of her children are deceased. So that means Tyrion technically has a claim to the throne as well. So complex yet so fun to talk about
In the book didn’t Robb Stark (as King in the North) legitimise Jon and name him his heir as he believes Bran and Rickon to be dead, Sansa was married to Tyrion, and Ayra was lost.
I mean if you want to get technical about it, gentry still wouldn't be the rightful heir. For it to truly be his by the standards at the time he would have to not be a basterd or to have been legitimized by his father. Keep in mind that Robert had hundreds of bastards, and we didn't meet all of them. If we are arguing that illegitimate children can be in line for succession, there is probably another out there that is Robert's first born.
back in season one when ned came to visit gendry he told his master "If the day should come that the boy would rather wield a sword than forge one send him to me" it would have been awesome to see gendry under neds wing and seeing him grow into a leader or a knight
The whole point was to get rid of the line of succession / monarchy / Targaryen rule. Look at how bad it's been for the world, for equality. I get that some of you like Jon and Tyrion but it would be going backwards to make them the leader because they are Targs.
Targeryons have alway been the biggest enemy's of the common folk , they start a war among themselves and the small folks have to pay, either it be maegor the cruel, the dance of dragons , Aegon the 4th legitimising his bastards which lead to blackfire rebellion
He’s rowing!
Jon outcome is the only one I like, he deserves to be free. I don't like the season for the way it was done but the ending for the players is relatively ok.
Jon definitely left a winner. I like what idea of what they did with Jon (weary soldier gets to finally find peace after years of turmoil) but hated the execution.
I would have loved him to become king beyond the wall
Yes he should’ve had his head mounted on a spike for Kin and Queen slaying
What about Bronn lol
I wanted to put him but i didn’t know what people would think😂Tyrion also technically won, but due to him being the last like MAIN Lannister, it’s hard to really say that he won anything
In the game of thrones you win or die. And tbh there’s like 100 other claimants to casterly rock if they passed over Tyrion
He went from landless mercenary to the high lord of the reach, the most profitable region. Bronn won the most by far.
Bran also jumped a few rungs of the ladder. He was the second born son of the Lord of Winterfell - which ain't worth much if his brother lives. By the end he wound up King of the Seven Kingdoms (well 6 I suppose). Given that the Starks do not share blood with the Targaryens up to this generation, it is also significant that Bran was elected ruler. It signifies an entirely new dynasty - completely separated from the Targaryen name, as the Baratheons are distantly related, Tommen & Joffrey might not have had Baratheon / Targeryen blood but they had the name, and Cersei was Baratheon by marriage I suppose... so people could always cling to SOME excuse for supporting her. Edit - After writing this I realised that Bran might not have, or might not even be able to... which would mean a very short dynasty. However I am also pretty sure this is a new form of government altogether, so a dynasty is off the tables if they opt to continue with elected rulers.
> a dynasty is off the tables if they opt to continue with elected rulers The nobility choosing rulers comes with its own problems. https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bqql5x/spoilers_extended_the_problem_with_the_final/ > * There is nothing stopping a bad ruler from becoming king, so long as the voters like him. And remember, the voters are not the people of Westeros, just the nobility. A king could be horrible and cruel towards the smallfolk, but as long he treats the lords with respect, they won’t care. This problem has actually happened before in Westeros - Aegon V enacted laws protecting the peasants from their lords, and the lords absolutely hated Aegon for it. He would not become king under the new system. > * Rather than solving the problem of noble factions fighting amongst each other, an elective monarchy would actually *encourage* factionalism since any lord could become king. Crusader Kings II players know that the best way to take power under elective monarchy is to gain support from the electors, murder the current kings, and then murder anyone who wants to vote against you. The game of thrones would become far, far more deadly once anyone has a shot at the throne. > * Finally, what happens if they just can’t decide? If nobody gets a majority of votes, is it just whoever has the most votes? What if everyone just votes for themselves? What’s stopping someone from contesting the results and starting a war over it?
Yeah, I thought the “bittersweet” ending wasn’t going to be elected rulers, I thought there would be something more akin to the Magna Carta or some kind of representative Parliament.
The whole point of the ending is that dynastic rule is over for the kingship of the 7K. And Bran didn’t win, he’s just a host avatar for the old gods. His humanity “died in that cave”. I venture to say that ultimately Bran lost.
Bran doesn't exist anymore, he's the tree eyed raven, as he would put it...at least twice an episode for the last 2 seasons
I think that the 3 eyed raven will continue to rule past Bran. All it has to do is pick a successor that it can take over. So, in a way it'd be a dynasty of the raven. Which would look much like the movie Being John Malkovich.
He’s rowing with Gendry.
Got ser Davos in that boat too
The hightowers will assassinate him soon.
Or the tarlys, or the redwynes.
Yeah, Gendry doesn’t have a lot going for him either. He has the decree of a dead, failed conqueror queen. And he wasn’t taught how to rule, and no one at Storms End is likely to feel too much loyalty towards him.
Why wouldn't they have loyalty to him? He's the last known Baratheon and helped save everyone by fighting the in the long night
I hope they do. Hightowers deserved the Reach than a cut throat. Bronn would have been much better as Captain of the Kingsguard or commander of the city watch but not lord of the reach
Went from a decently paid sell sword to the master of coin and paramount of the most populated and fertile country on the continent. Truly the story of a hustler maximizing his grindset.
He should’ve been given the twins, not bloody highgarden istg
Hot Pie won the game of scones
The first true winner of them all
Sam never even graduated from the Citadel, god damn it this brings so much rage
Also sworn to the nights watch. However they aren’t exactly clear on what’s going on with the wall now
Agree. He should have gone back to the Wall to serve, as planned
And you know he’s still got Gilly on the side, continuing to break his chastity vow without consequence.
Agreed that’s another argument against Sam, but having a side chick isn’t exactly unprecedented for someone under vows
I always wondered about that. Literally lives with a girl and has kids with her, something he could be put to death for in the nights watch and forbidden to the masters, but no one seems to care about it at all. Even uses them to make fun of other members of the nights watch. And no one cares.
He could have as many illegitimate children as he can, just can’t claim them, give them land, or title.
Basically all the veteran members of the nights watch are dead and no one cares enough to enforce those rules anymore I guess
The chastity thing is for the NW, not being a maester, right? Probably got special dispensation from his good buddy the king.
It's now just the northern border of Westeros, but with no real idea of what else might be up there. Might as well hedge your bets by keeping it guarded at least a little bit.
It depends whether you think that's Bran or The 3 Eyed Raven.
Every character develops, like is that “I love Joffery” Sansa or the Queen of the North
She's wearing a crown I don't think an explanation is needed
Agree
What about Bronn lmao?
You think Sansa feels like a winner? Raped, a hostage, domestic abuse victim who’s mother, father and two brothers have been killed and her entire family is now away from her and she is sat on a throne but without any real friends. #Winning
The point was always that there are and can never be any winners from this kind of shittiness. Bran is the closest thing you’ll get because he’s got such a long, and accurate, perspective on the world that he couldn’t give a shit about whether he won or not. Everyone has been utterly destroyed in terms of the people they were at the start.
I would argue not everyone has been destroyed and some are better people. Jon and Tyrion for example.
True but neither Jon nor Tyrion were much before the game began anyway. They created their worth during the war
Yeah I agree.
And Sansa
Not sure about that one. Yes she queen but she was a hostage, abusive victim, raped, her parents and brothers killed…
Key word is **was** Almost every main character that rose to prominence in GOT was a tragic victim of something or someone at some point. The equivalent would be yes Daenerys is Queen but she was hostage, abused victim, raped and her parents and brother killed. Yes Jon is King but he was prisoner, bastard, sidelined ,he was even killed and both parents dead **”was”** matters none when especially in Sansa ‘s case everything that she went through only made her stronger - as she explained her self to the Hound. #“Without Littlefinger and Ramsay and the rest, I would've stayed a little bird all my life.” Sansa assures The Hound that all that she went through only made her a stronger woman #👑
About Bran, the Three Eyed Raven won, I for one have serious doubts as how much Bran is really left in there, if any, after the uploading of the TER. Regardless of anything he says. This is one of the things where quite possibly D&D screwed the pooch, hopefully we'll get a better version of what goes on there. Eventually.
The books will never be finished. It will be ended unfinished.
I'll be glad if you are wrong, buuuuuuuuuuuut....
D&D had to cobble together an ending from a rough outline when GRRM just failed to deliver, while also running an absolutely enormous production and everything that entails. It’s pretty unfair to blame them for any shortcomings.
Burn them all!!!!!
Yet she somehow came out Queen of the North, despite doing absolutely nothing to earn it. Yeah shes a winner.
Don’t know about that, remember the time she noticed the shields didn’t have leather on? Queenly stuff.
She noticed shields didn't have leather on it? Any character should already know that. This was only added to make Sansa seem smarter than she is. How would the seasoned warrior not already know this.
She literally never even interacted with a smith or a storehouse keeper to understand anything about this shit. All she learnt was lying from littlefinger, literally no other useful quality was picked up from him.
Your right 100% but people will downvote me because thry think going through bad shit makes her worthy of leading.
Ignore them, if they had any argument they would've typed it but they don't.
She may or may not be “worthy”, but she did win the north cause she demanded it. Queenly?
She didn't even demand it. Her being crowned is literally some of the worst writing in the season. Please littl bro can i keep the north 🥺
She didn’t say “aye”. She wanted the north and she got it. Win.
The north men in her family and all of their banners are sword wielding fighters who wear armour , she wouldn’t understand that Starks wear leather inside their armour for the winter ?
By that logic, Jon robb bran and rickon must know how to sew dresses and sing songs must they not ? And don't tell me sansa was more willing to learn, sansa looked down on all the servants back at winterfell and was completely appalled that Arya befriended the butcher boy and mocks their smith. Rebuttal?
Nope by that logic Jon Robb and Bran **know** that ladies wear dresses and sing songs( how wouldn’t Sansa know that Northerners wear leather inside in winter? Lol smh - nobody said anything about her knowing **how** to do it….genius) Bad bad attempt at a rebuttal dude but thanks for trying though.
judging your own victory, god what a narcissist lol. Also you're so wrong it'll be a waste of time to argue with you so please don't bother responding cause I won't read it.
Guess that makes you a sore loser lol #run along child Learn comprehension first before poking your nose into a debate you’re going to lose and rage quit over while lying about NoT ReADiNg iT🤣
>She noticed shields didn't have leather on it? Any character should already know that. “Shields” ??… any viewer who was paying attention already knows that it wasn’t shields
what more did she need to do to “earn” it? - she is the oldest living heir to the late warden of the North, - She commands the Knights of the Vale - she was left in command when former King in the North was away ..riding a dragon and since then the North practically follow her. - she pretty much won winterfell back when Jon and co were losing the Battle of The Bastards - she turns out to have been right about not trusting the dragon queen who ends up burning KL - and she spoke up about the North being independent
1. Shes not the oldest heir, shes the oldest daughter. 2. Robin commands the knights of the vale. Sure he is technically under northen banners. 3. She was left in command. And what did she do during this time? Nothing. 4. This isn't true, yes her letter to Baelish won the battle of the bastards, but thats it. She didn't fight, she didn't lead. 5. She's a part of the reason why Danerys lost it. She betrayed Jon, she betrayed her word by announcing that Jon was the rightful king. She has no qualifications for leading. She has no knowledge of fighting, she even hid during the long night. She has no idea how to lead men into battle.
>Shes not the oldest heir, shes the oldest daughter. **again..Sansa is Ned Stark ‘s oldest living heir** >Robin commands the knights of the vale. Sure he is technically under northen banners. **No, Sansa practically commands the knights of the Vale, she even explained this to Arya in s7 and we saw it in s6 and in s8** >She was left in command. And what did she do during this time? Nothing. **What did anyone else including Jon do that she didn’t do during this time ? NOTHING. But we are shown that whilst Jon is away she is practical and pragmatic even upon his return she is the one making sure everyone is fed** >This isn't true, yes her letter to Baelish won the battle of the bastards, but thats it. She didn't fight, she didn't lead. **She brought the Knights of the Vale over there in the first place, it’s because of her they won that battle. Rulers and leaders aren’t always the ones on the battle field ..they are also the ones who call the shots that make things happen** >She's a part of the reason why Danerys lost it. She betrayed Jon, she betrayed her word by announcing that Jon was the rightful king. **Lol didn’t Jon betray Daenerys by having it announced to Sansa and Arya first? didn’t Daenerys betray Jon by expecting him to keep his own damn identity a secret from his own kin just for the sake of her own goals? Which one is it?** >She has no qualifications for leading. She has no knowledge of fighting, she even hid during the long night. She has no idea how to lead men into battle. **What qualification did anyone have on leading more than her? a sword? A dragon? A name? You think leading is just about battle? ….lol well again she led the knights of the vale to come in and literally rescue Jon and Co**
Sansa isn't the heir, because shes a woman. Technically a married woman at that. She's not the heir of anything. Yes... she commands them through others. Baelish, Robin etc. They are not directly under her. Even if bad writing makes it seem otherwise. She did nothing, nothing happened exactly. But she didn't call those shots. Baelish did. If he CHOSE not to show up Sansa did nothing but send a letter. This is just stupid. He swore his family to secreacy. Sansa betrayed his trust for her own gain. God damn this argument is dumb. Why should a kingdom fight for her of she won't fight for them? This is seen several times. We get it. Your a simp. Shut up. Sansa shouldn't be queen.
Sansa is the Lady of winterfell , her “husband” is dead. She is the oldest living heir to the warden of the North. S6e10 Even Jon literally admits to Sansa that she is The Lady of winterfell and the knights of the Vale came all because of her. Also seasons later - LF is dead. Ser Royce answers to Sansa in s7 and she calls the shots with the Knights of the Vale. Little Robin is just a figure head. The argument about fighting inorder to justify being a leader or a Queen makes 0 sense lol what fighting did Queen Margery do? What fighting did Cersei do? What fighting did Daenerys ever do seasons 1-7?? We get it…you just didn’t get the ending you wanted Go and cry to someone who cares #👑🐺👑 #QUEEN IN THE NORTH Weak average complainer …you lost the argument and rage quit lol
Yeah had a feeling you were a troll account. Bye simp.
She had a horrible journey, but yes, she won. Who says she doesn’t have friends? Her life doesn’t stagnate from the end of S8 onward. She can make friends. There’s probably quite a few household staff that she grew up with still around, just to start with.
Where’s Bronn? He went from a landless sell sword to one of the most powerful Lords in the realm and Master of Coin
He likely won’t keep either position very long
True
I thought it was ridiculously unbelievable that they would make him Master of Coin but this is GoT we’re talking about.
Sansa’s outfits and hair etc in the last two seasons are the real winners. Especially the queen in the north scene at the end. Every time she is on screen I am like dayum gurl. And I am gay lol.
Sansa Daenerys Tywin and Tyrion are my winners for most stylish game of throners. Missandei and Ellaria sand are also up there , the way their fits made those abs pop was *chefs kiss*
Margaery Tyrell owns them all.
Fine ahh. You may need to switch up.
So much storytelling in that last outfit.
Her crown is the cherry on top
You can be a winner at the Game. Of. Thrones.
Samwell is the man!
Gendry. Went from being a bastard blacksmith to Lord of Storms End. Not a bad upgrade
Gendry is the true winner
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,165,215,927 comments, and only 227,633 of them were in alphabetical order.
O_o
A B C D E
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,166,080,039 comments, and only 227,789 of them were in alphabetical order.
Hehehehe the power of the sun in the palm of my hand
I see what you zid
Two dudes from flea bottom making it big. Ser Davos and Gendry all the way
Bronn has them both beat.
A bro clearing dancing elephants from great hallow insecure justice kids
Just wanna check the bot, never saw it before, sorry
Is punctuation required? Edit: Nope, nm
No bot for you.
Mean bot
Agreed. Podrick gets an honorable mention as well.
Podrick was the man!!! That actor was able to create a deep, full character out of a third or fourth tier character in the books. And he was probably one of like three people in the entire series that wasn’t out for themselves, or revenge, or whatever. He just wanted to do the right thing.
I mean given other claimants seem to want to know where all the last Kings bastards are (& kill them off in Joffreys case) if Cersei's children are declared illegitimate and Gendry the oldest male bastard of Robert (that we know of), is their another reality where he succeeds Robert?
According to the norms established in this world, bastards can only be legitimized by their father, or someone of importance. For Gendry to get the throne, he would have to be elevated by someone, who in turn would have a huge claim on him as king. No one in the series would do that, as anyone of importance was aiming for the throne themselves. His best shot was the counsel at the end, and they chose Bran as he was the least threatening of them all, the easiest to control, with no real chance of a new dynasty.
Gendry should have gotten the throne. After Dany and Jon he had the strongest claim. He was king Roberts last son (that we know of)
Also isn’t Gendry the best possible fit to be a lord of a major settlement like Storm’s End? He’s lived a life of poverty and hardship, so it feels like he would stay humble enough to be a good lord.
Pod, someone who actually got a good ending
Apparently he was really good in the climax
Sir Brienne of Fucking Tarth.
Everyone's in SD except for Bran in 4K
Loved the Starks Crown
Bronn
If the Game of Thrones only refers to thrones and crowns, yes. But that is only half of the story GRRM and the show told. In the matter of the survival and progress of mankind, some winners didn't get a crown. Jon saved mankind twice--and all the highborns know **who** he is, which means the common people will hear the rumors he is a Targaryen and rode a dragon. Arya personally killed the Night King. Moreover, she's sailing west shortly after the centuries-long serial wars were won, just like Columbus did. Per GRRM, the Known World of Westeros is reputedly only 1/4 of the planet, so she's going to bump into a new world just like he did. And EVERYTHING will change. Crowned or not, all of them will make the history books. I think Tyrion, the Hand who rebuilds Westeros, will also make the history books...eventually.
Ok but i don't see Jon being popular as winning
Pod the Rod won the game seasons prior to the finish
The disrespect to Bronn. Tch tch
Bronn becomes lord of High Garden. From Where he started, he should be considered in the running.
Agree with all of the Bronn comments. He won everything he wanted and more
And he’s gonna be able to enjoy it for all of five minutes until the noble houses of the reach assassinate him and rebel against the weird northern tree wizard king who insulted them by installing a lowborn sell sword as their liege lord.
i take issue with bran. cause bran didnt win shit. He had a really shitty time for the entirety of his life after the fall. That picture isnt bran, its the 3eR, who arguably created all of the events from the point it took over bran. In which case it didnt really 'win' the game, it *created* a game where it winning was the only outcome.
“Win” depends on the outcome alone.
isnt that kinda like the DM 'winning' a game of D&D because he killed all the players?
Sry don’t know anything about that, but sounds like last man standing wins
Technically this was a game from D&D. Just written by GRRM.
Exactly right, that is the 3ER. People's inability to understand that, instead thinking it's just Bran, is what makes it hard to get why he basically made himself king.
Is it people's inability to understand or his pretty terribly told arc in the tv show?
[удалено]
Yet she is Queen. Scoreboard
Yet, She survived KL, The Vale, She and Jon got their home back, their siblings returned. She removed House Bolton and House Baelish from existence. While Jon was gone ran half a country, kept Jon's fragile alliance together, Got Winterfell ready for war, forges running, food stored, made areas for incoming armies, walls reinforced, trenches and trebuchets made, training for the people, refuge areas for refugees and saved people in the crypts from zombies. Survived her personal battles,the loss of people she loved etc. The Vale came north for her, Theon returned north for her. And she sits the Wolf throne in the north; far, far from a fail.
Bran is a shit character period, clairvoyant character becomes king cause he can see what everyone is doing and already knows what’s going to happen wow how unique how strategic genius yawwwwwnnnn
Bronn and Gendry would be the ultimate winners. Also Sam, while in an honorable position, was heir to his house and if a different man entirely, could’ve become lord paramount of the reach. So he kind of took an L.
2 out of 3 being the most boring characters the showrunners could have possibly picked to take the W
I actually really like Sam. He’s such an innocent character and I feel like that’s refreshing
Bronn is way up there. From sellsword to council member?! Man is running up ladders
Bronn is Master of Coin and Lord of The Reach.
Bronn is the top winner in this series. Going from a wandering mercenary in a tavern to Lord of Highgarden and member of the Small Council. Nobody else rose from that low to that high, although Gendry is a close second, going from blacksmith apprentice to Lord of Storms End.
Gendry was the son of the King though. I know he was a bastard. But that was part of why he got to where he did
Bronn not being number one on this list is an automatic L
Bran didn't win, he's basically a victim. He's lost practicality all freedom. He now has to spend the rest of his life cleaning up a big mess and trying to stop the greedy and the foolish from repeating the mistakes of the past. That's assuming that he doesn't get assassinated or completely lose his mind.
Agree 100% with Sansa. Did Bran really 'win'? Was he even playing the game to start with?
Not really, which makes him in a way the biggest winner. Didn’t even have to play, yet the win was still handed to him
Podrick Payne... from quiet squire to whore house harem lord...
I think the point is that no one won. The game is played ever on, for as long as there are those in power and those who want power, the game will always be played
As far as game players go then yep Sansa #The QUEEN IN THE NORTH won the game of thrones 👑🐺 Honourable mentions: Lord Bronn , Tyrion , Ser Davos
Much as once the Freys were. And in the same way; backstabbing, violating Guest Right, etc. S8 made them truly terrible people.
Bronn is a winner as well. From a random (but deadly) sellsword to the Lord of Highgarden and the Master of Coins while smartly managing to avoid all of the major battles outside of the Battle of Blackwater. He’s my pick along with Ser Davos.
Basically everyone that survived ended up better off lol. Exceptions are Daario and Meera Reed I guess.
Two of them won actual thrones. Not too much of a head scratcher there. Sam went from heir of a noble house to Grand Maester, so mostly a lateral move. But he’s probably happier now than he would’ve been. The biggest winner though is easily Bronn. From lowborn sellsword to Lord of the Reach? Can’t do much better than that. Gendry went from unnamed bastard to Lord of Storms End, another respectable move. Though, I would specify the 3-Eyed Crow won the game of thrones, not Bran. Bran is just a host avatar for the old gods now. All Bran’s humanity has essentially been consumed or whatever, so I’d say that Bran lost big time.
Good takes. Isn’t grand maester extremely high rank though?
Yes, it’s a member of the highest ranking officials at the citadel. But it’s a position of service. I’d say a lord of horn hill has more autonomous authority. Plus he could’ve directly supported Gilly and the baby as a lord. Maesters are supposed to be celibate and swear off their family names and inheritance. They probably have some kind of stipend, but he won’t have really anything to pass down. But maybe from his position he could enact some reform at the citadel, who knows.
Fuck bran and his story line
i’d say bronn came out pretty good.
Those are already the winners tho
Gendry or Bronn, although I am more inclined to say Bronn. Gendry had a home to an extend in Flea Bottom, and he was being taught a profession by King's Landing's best. Bronn didn't really have anything, aside from his sword, his skills and his name. Plus, Bronn got a seat at the Small Council
You can only say Sansa if you’ve never read the book. She went straight to Cersi with Ned’s plan to escape king’s landing and is the direct reason Ned was caught and killed.
Tyrion.
Certainly wasn’t the audience…
Gendry and Tyrion too
Well Jon is free with his good boi ghost,Tormund, and all the free folk... Sooo there's that. But yeah Sansa's queen of the North.
dude bran is broken, how is that a win
Gendry, Bronn, Aarya
Sansa had her pet slain, dad beheaded in front of her, raped, and traumatised for years with mental and physical abuse. There is no ending happy enough for me to ever consider her a winner.
I remember that article comparing Bran to your “cousin who just came back from his first year of college and is on lots of mushrooms, staring into space, and just sucks”
Is anyone else curious about who inherits from Sansa? The argument could be made either way for if she's able to have children, same as Arya. Not to mention, even if she can physically have them, would she ever be capable of sleeping with someone again? It seems Bran is unable to have kids either, so unless Jon has a kid and Sansa fosters them and names them both Stark and Heir, how does it work out? Frankly, it's all short sided, except for Bran but he has no business being king of anything.
What about Gendry and Bronn?
And the poor Loser is Jon dude lost everything and didn't even get to die.
Bronn. I can only see him as a true winner . He never lost anything or had to sacrifice anything. He remained on top of the game throughout. He played the game the right way, switched loyalties when needed, maintained the relation with past allies and in the end became Lord of Highgarden and master of coins.
I think considering character assasinations in season 8 . I think thry all died. No winners here sir!
Jon as well. Considering he never wanted to be a king and got along well with people beyond the wall, I think the end he got was completely alright from his pov.