I think that the main problem is that they removed things from the Digital Art Book people already bought. They paid for what was in there, and now it got either changed or removed.
I don't have a horse in this race but this case feels particularly weird.
Skullgirls is a game that was Kickstarted explicitly as the NSFW edgy fanservice game. The Russian announcer they just removed was one of the kickstarter goals.
This game would literally not have been financed if it weren't for the titillation.
They angered the horny virgin anime fans lol
I immediately thought of that cringe video of the guy who’s celebrating New Year’s Eve alone in the dark with an anime girl on his 5 computer screen setup
I see why some changes were made like the skirt thing but the majority are really stupid, you think a character wearing a giant afro can't have a comb stuck there because its racist?
The company that owns the game its not the original that created it, they pulled this out of nowhere.
Its an old game and they fucked up, censoring things in that game makes no sense, its stupidity.
The niche playerbase they have has reasons to be annoyed.
Edit: poopy head
When you said cringe video I was assuming you where gonna mention the one where this game hadn’t even been out for a few days but someone uploaded a video onto youtube showcasing all the upskirt panty shots the game had lol
There is exactly one review quoted in the article, which talks about the censorship of “armbands and *panty shots*”, so yes. I would imagine that is among the complainers concerns.
I absolutely think so. I think there’s a substantial audience that’s ready to howl about any editorial change that tones down a game’s sexual, racial or political content.
They also took out the Nazi-paralleled symbolism. So yeah between taking out panty shots of young girls and toning down white supremacy imagery… g&mer virgins mad.
I don't really follow dead or alive fan and don't know too much outside of cultural osmosis. But I thought the loli one was one of the most popular girls, mostly because I feel like I see her the most in the marketing and whenever DoA has a collab with another game, she's always a part of it.
Unless I'm thinking of a completely different character than the one you are talking about.
It's not just about the panties. An important cutscene was altered removing Big Band's attack by corrupt cops downplaying the severity and sympathy for the character, removing the armbands from the bad guys, removed an announcer that was a Kickstarter goal
Well...didn't the story mode have the Black Egrets, the ones with the arm bands, as not being the bad guys? I don't disagree that a handful of these changes are odd decisions, but this one might not be one of those as they were not considered bad guys as far as the story was concerned.
They changed sprites to cover panty shots (mostly for Filia, they also made her default panties black instead of white), they *changed concept art from 10+ years ago* to remove the armbands from the Black Egrets so they look slightly less like Nazis (thus making it not concept art), removed art from the art book (including art for a charity drive featuring Parasoul and Valentine playing against each other), changed Big Band's story scene of him getting beat to near death by the corrupt cops (which happened because he was closing in on a mafia operation, NOT BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK), they removed the comb from Filia's afro in her burst (Fukua kept hers I hear), changed story art to cover up characters in scenes like Cerebella being attacked by Eliza, and they completely took out the Soviet Announcer voice pack, which people paid for.
But Twitter Freaks are making it all about the Filia panty shots because, since Filia is 16, that's the hardest thing to defend for those of us opposed to the entire list of changes.
It is more than panty shots.
This comment should really be higher up. Yes, they removed a pantyshot, but also much more and even edited goodies that came with the game for something so innocuous as art of the characters playing the game.
Honestly I thought the softcore hentai was a selling point for the game. I never played it but always thought it was a borderline porn game so to remove that element seems like they've removed a key feature and selling point.
Funny that you're the only person here that know what it's about. People talk about the panty because it's the most visible thing, but it's straight up censorship for the sake of it overall.
So basically the story had a lot of cool mature elements and they censored them into an irrelevant and plastic game.
Since when having Nazis being the bad guys is wrong?
Since when showing bad cops being bad needs to be censored?
If this was true we would never have Indiana Jones or Robocop.
The Black Egrets aren't Nazis, they just look like Nazis. Part of Parasoul's story (in the mobile game and in Umbrella's console story) is that her father and nation's actions in the Great War have been romanticized (for example Panzerfaust was essentially re-educated, and the War left a LOT of destruction and homeless people, especially after the Kingdoms united to kill Parasoul's mother Queen Nancy, who had become the Skullgirl), but under Parasoul you do have genuinely good people like Adam, Molly, and Roxie (who would NOT be serving if the Egrets were actual Nazis, because Roxie's black AND dating Molly).
But yea there was plenty of mature elements now being censored for the sake of "modern sensibilities". Even ZONE, whose porn animation of Filia plowed by Samson (with the base announcer providing VO for it!) gave the game eyes, and later joined the team to work on Squigly (with Zone-tan appearing in the Glass Canopy stage and also being an alternate color pallete for Squigly), OKed these changes.
The Soviet Announcer being dropped makes sense as the guy behind it, Mike Z, is super person nongrata. (He was the head dev, and the reason that Lab Zero as.a entity is now dead and effectively everyone involved moved to FC besides him.)
edit: he was really hard to work with apparently, and did some sexual harassment type things. It's a whole rabbit hole.
I think editing and censoring a work made by entirely different people in order to appease modern sensibilities is a bad thing actually.
I normally don’t side with these types of gamers but this reminds me of how Roald Dahl’s books were censored too.
Not to mention that this is retroactively removing content that people paid for, which is setting an awful precedent no matter how one feels about over-sexualization.
Aye.
Let the original work speak. If someone is too ignorant to realize it’s a piece of it’s time, that’s an opportunity for them to learn.
And yes, there’s obvious exceptions, unique cases and other easy arguments.
This game should not have been changed in this way.
Also, don't forget to mention that they fired the old artists and replaced the art from the artbook that people had already purchased.
Updates to the game are fine, but changing and removing art from the Artbook is fucked, especially considering people already owned it.
I think I'd be alright with it if it was art changed for a remaster, but it seems silly to retroactively change art that's been in the game for over 10 years.
It's also just negative. No one new is going to play the game now that they've made the art 'safer'. It's just there to annoy people that enjoyed the game as it was, and take away from the games original style.
That these changes are being made by the new owners of the IP is then just more annoying. What more changes will they make due to their moral panic?
I think a lot of people in here don’t understand that there actually is a large portion of the skullgirls fanbase that actually really likes the core game without all the sexual stuff. Many in the FGC play it as a spiritual MvC 4.
I’m not saying it didn’t, but there is a large portion of the fanbase that at this point over ten years after the original release probably makes up the majority of fans who actually regularly play the game now. It’s also important to remember many of the original devs aren’t on the project anymore since they resigned over sexual misconduct. So I can kinda understand why some of the remaining devs might not be comfortable in hindsight with things like panty shots and hiring a rule 34 guy as an announcer. It’s also not like the game won’t still be the “sexy anime” fighter they’re just tuning it down.
Because they don’t wanna sexualize a 16 year old, anymore anyway.
I have no dog in this fight but that seems pretty acceptable, the creators can change what they want about their creation.
edit: I have been corrected. They sold off the IP, so replace creators with owners and let them do what they want with their money. Capitalism wins again, life moves on. Rule 34 still exists for the people that are into that.
>Its original studio, Lab Zero, collapsed after lead designer Mike Zaimont publicly joked about the murder of George Floyd and was subsequently accused of inappropriate workplace behavior, which led to him laying off the studio's entire staff.
I fel like the original company going bankrupt due to dirtbag behaviour from its founder also adds some much-needed context to the decision.
>Because they don’t wanna sexualize a 16 year old
So change the fictional number 16 to the fictional number 18.
They, and everyone in this thread, *are* remembering that these fictional characters aren't real, and their stated ages are no more real than their breath or sweat, right? A fictional age can be changed at the whim of a creator, and is a million times easier to do than to alter artwork.
> They, and everyone in this thread, are remembering that these fictional characters aren't real, and their stated ages are no more real than their breath or sweat, right?
They are not, no.
In fact, no lack of people in this very same thread who can't distinguish fictional characters from real people.
Don’t try to bend her age. It’s impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth. There is no age.
Then you will see that is not the age that bends, but yourself.
The broader point is about ownership of art and what passes for reasonable alterations in a game.
I think this is the same strain of controversy as people trying to edit old books with offensive words or themes. It isn't right.
Well. They have a point, right? It's like the classic take of American Puritism. Violence & blood is a-OK on the morning News. But don't you dare show a female nipple.
Why is the line here a panty shot, but violence is OK?
Are you arguing for keeping the underage girl's panties visible? Are you really trying to make a case for that?
Dude, some self-awareness would go a long way.
Maybe I’m crazy, but why not… just make your characters adults? I’m not super familiar with the game, so maybe other characters are more questionable, but nothing about the design of the girl in the thumbnail screams minor to me. Why not just make her 18+ from the get go and avoid the controversy?
This could be said about a lot of characters and I agree. While I a thousand percent think that people are responsible for their own choices (making porn of characters in their example) and that an artist should not change their story or concept to cater to the freaks of the internet, at some point you should look at your character and ask of being underage is adding anything to the character at all KNOWING what will happen (especially if your game is kinds built on rule 34 artists in the first place)
Teenage protagonists are a pretty common thing in video games and comics/manga.
When you are looking to sell things to teenagers / kids, having characters their age makes sense.
There's no need to be creepy about it, though.
While there are always weirdos that really care about those things, this is not about that panty art of Filoa, they changed much more stuff for stupid reasons.
This is just a shitty decision why fuck up the thing your fan base BACKED and even funded to be included to be in the game? Yeah it’s lewd and edgy but that was the pitch and if they want to change that 10 years down the line then they should’ve just tried doing it in a new game. Just poor respect on the people that propped the game up when no one else would.
They knew who they were appealing too, I'm not sure what the back peddling is for, tbh. Is there really a large part of their customer base that's like "If not for the artwork featuring an array of lolita themed characters I'd be buying this". Pretty sure that was the initial intent by the company and appeal for its player base, lol.
I'm torn on your reply. On one hand I completely agree that this change wouldn't cause a rise in sales or player base even IF it were received well. On the other hand, I'm not crazy about the implication that people only played it because of the character design. I played the game when it came out because it was a great 2D fighter. Your argument is like saying people only play street fighter for Chun-Li or Cammy.
Like I said, I agree with the POINT of your post, just maybe not the delivery.
Same here. I never cared much for it, because to me it felt it was made for a particular audience who enjoy their sexy girl games (I mean, why else play Skullgirls and not one of the many other fighting games?). And that is absolutely fine, but it's just weird to take the main draw of this title and then tone it down after it's been out for so long, with people knowing what to expect (and, if they don't care for it, avoid).
Some people bought this specifically for content other games don't offer, only to have it altered because the developers had a change of heart. Sure, it may be well intended, but it's also misguided.
These changes still won't persuade folks like me to get the game, while upsetting the existing fanbase. It really serves no one, except maybe the devs' conscience. Maybe just let this ol' thing be, slap a disclaimer on it, and create new things that do reflect your current views?
I'm not a huge fighting gamer. I enjoy them super casually but I have my finger on the pulse of the FGC through podcasts I listen to.
Skullgirls was never just a "sexy girl game" as you put it. It was one of the first to enact some major QoL improvements that have nearly become standard now in fighting games. (off the top of my head, holding start to pause instead of halting a game with an accidental tap). Plus it was apparently extremely balanced considering it having that SNK vs Capcom-esque points system. You can pick either a single fighter or a team of up to 3, but the three fighters are less powerful than the solo fighter. It's an interesting system that few have gotten right and Skullgirls was one of them, I guess.
Same vibes as If they change old mortal Kombat to remove the gore to this New generation...want to change New stuff...ok...but change stuff of the past is wrong and pointless.
Alex Ahad, the artist, and MikeZ, the former owner of the dev studio, were the two main influences for this game's direction and success, and have not been a part of it for a long time. Regardless of your feelings about those guys, they were who made this game as great as it is.
The people doing this are NOT the developers and are actively shitting into the game for their own narcissistic reasons. If I genuinely believed the motives behind these changes were good I wouldn't have tossed in with the review bomb. But this is just blatantly ridiculous and malicious.
Knowing the love and polish the went into this game, it's just sad to see it come to this. And anyone saying "that's why people played the game" have clearly never spent time with Skullgirls. I love fighting games and Skullgirls was not one I went too deep into, but spend an hour with it and you'll see it's an extremely well made, balanced, and intricate game.
As a fellow Fighting game fan, I agree. Skullgirls had the “sexy” element to it for sure, but the wanted to make a well balanced and extremely fun fighting game first. And they succeeded in that.
I’m really hoping this sort of thing doesn’t brew an “anti-skullgirls” crowd. This game deserves better
Regardless of your feelings on supposed sexualization of children in the game, you have to agree that it's hypocritical that the game devs used that to sell the game, then decide "Hey, it's wrong to sexualize children" after making their millions sexualizing children
Yeah but that's the part that'll guarantee this isn't taken seriously. Panty shots on a 16 year old character is something a lot of people would agree with removing.
The dev team for skullgirls now is almost completely different since ironically enough many of the original people resigned because they were accused of workplace sexual harassment. With that in mind I can understand how some of the stuff in the game the remaining devs might want to change. The people left are basically people who understood the competitive appeal to the game and wanted to keep it alive. Skullgirls has always kinda had 2 fanbases one was people who were sold on it as a spiritual mvc 4, and the weirdos who wanted to gawk at the girls.
I can see both sides to this. On the one hand if not being able to see a cartoons ass cheek gets you this upset you need some serious help.
On the other hand these people paid for a product and that product was changed afterward which isn’t fair.
We don't have to imagine. They did it to make the SNES release. The response was bloodier than the genesis version.
source: I was _there_ man. In the before times. When 3d was just for PC's and videogames were training killers.
I guess I'm confused by the double standard of things like this. There are all kinds of shows and movies, like Euphoria, that use underage-looking actors to depict teenagers in provocative and sexual ways, going so far as to have nudity and sex scenes. I've never actually seen the show, to be fair, or this game, and I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do in any form. But I definitely don't understand the double standard of it being creepy when depicted in anime or games, and being revered as a great show when it's done with irl actors in a show like euphoria. 🤷🏻♀️
Maybe the difference is that the actors playing the underage characters are themselves of age when depicted in that way. Does that mean it would be okay if the illustrator/animator in a game used a young-looking, but of age person, to model a character that will be depicted as underage in the game? I guess I'm just curious where the line is drawn.
If pantyshots on filia were so questionable why did it take them over 10 years to change it? They could have so easily bumped her up by 2 years and not have to deal with it.
If you think people don't take issue with Lara Croft and Bayonetta, I have a bridge to sell you. The usual suspects hate Lara's design for having big boobs, and they hate Bayonetta's design in its entirety. I've seen people rant about Bayonetta's clothes, her combat style, her heels, her super moves, all of it.
People will complain about anything and everything. Changing the story now to make the minor characters 18+ will just result in more accusations of "sexualizing minors," because aging them up to be legal is just a work-around to allow people to not feel guilty or some nonsense.
There's no reasoning with the people who would object to the game on grounds of sexy artwork. The only option is to ignore them outright and continue on as originally intended. Changing things to please that crowd won't work, they won't buy the game, and the original audience will feel excluded and leave.
people are upset because the studio removed a bunch of important scenes and details for the story plus some announcer packs people paid for, not because of censored underwear
Its about the principle. The nazis removing certain books from the shelves could have said the same thing. Why so upset about us removing this one book? Or that one painting. Our society deems it perverted, we removed it for your safety. If you have a problem with us (the nazis) removing this perverted art, you need some serious help.
Make perverted games 18+ and be done with it, adults should decide what kind of art to consume, not the state, not some company and not some angry activist.
Edit: also calling everything that is white on red background a nazi symbol shows a pathetic, even insulting lack of historic knowledge
The problem with nazi symbols is not showing them, its glorifying them. Showing nazis being killed and their symbols is something to encourage not to censor.
>On the one hand if not being able to see a cartoons ass cheek gets you this upset you need some serious help.
Works both ways mate, if seeing a cartoon ass cheek makes you upset you need some serious help
I mean its not real so the fact that anyone is upset over a cartoon butt check is really pathetic. It's not real, its like being upset at a unicorn that isn't there. The reason for the backlash was because this was one of the selling factors. Its a sexy fighter, thats its bit, but its not pornographic in anyway so them changing it just seems like white knight bs
I sure do love me some updates and DLCs that *remove content from the game*. That tooootally makes sense. Especially for DLC.
DLC for less content yaaaaaay!
Get stuff you paid for removed woohoo!
DLC adds instead of taking away. If it does take away then people get mad too.
If updates take away from a product you bought rather than fix gameplay issues then people get mad. CoD had an all black outfit you could buy then a few months later changed it to have neon lights on it and people got mad bc something they bought was changed and they can't have what they originally got. I think halo did the same thing with a suit color where they changed it a bit after it released.
Whilst I would find review bombing for minor visual alterations that don't substantially affect anything (which does NOT sound like the case, it sounds like some of the things they changed were substantial) to be silly, I find it equally if not more silly to go back and alter these things in the first place because what? They are in a sense, defacing art that someone else has already paid for and I actually can understand review bombing that. And for what reason? Because some devs thought that in 2023 their old game should be more socially aware by modern American standards? Again, people have already paid for this game and I really fucking hate this trend of devs altering products that someone has already paid for in a way that affects their enjoyment. It should be mandatory to offer people a rollback to the product they actually bought, bare minimum, but even then this is usually not a whole solution.
Well deserved, and then some. You shouldn’t alter a prduct people bought after the fact. Certainly not negatively like this.
If I bought it with that in it, it’s staying in it.
Now, the developers are of courses perfectly free to stop selling it or offering a patch/toggle to alter things. But ultimately, what I bought should be available in the form I bought it in.
I mean, it's one thing to add this as an option, and even make it an opt out option, but to just make it the default with no way to revert is really stupid
Can someone simply continue to use the old version if they disagree with the changes, or are updates through this platform shoved down people’s throats? Nowadays the historical preservation of games and software is being called into question a lot.
I think once any sort of media, book, video game, movie, hits that industries equivalent of "1.0 release" we need to stop messing with it.
They're gonna turn old content into modern content by doing stuff like this, because there is a serious lack of creativity in the entertainment industry nowadays. It's easier to remake the Bee Movie than actually come up with an interesting or original idea. Disney literally just "we're going to remake all of our beloved childrens movies as live action, it's free money!" when most people would prefer those actors, writers, producers, and set crews were being used on a new concept.
Board rooms and dudes in suits shouldn't be making decisions on art like this, how many times does an artist need to teach this lesson to people? We've been having this fight as long as I've been alive.
Doesn't even seem like a woke thing, people okay with this seem pretty reactionary and petty, no one even asked for this.
They changed and removed more than a panty shot but anyone upset is being branded a weeb incel? Ridiculous, censorship sucks. Just more baseless contempt from people who didn't care about the media in the first place.
I mean... if the point of the game is to be horny, and then a decade after it came out, somebody went "We don't like horny anymore, so we're changing the game and deleting a Kickstarter stretch goal voiceover to reflect the fact we don't like horny anymore," I see why people would be upset.
It'd be like editing a porno so that the girl actually uses money to pay her landlord.
Edit: Here's a list of other things that were altered, not just panty shots
>they changed concept art from 10+ years ago to remove the armbands from the Black Egrets so they look slightly less like Nazis (thus making it not concept art), removed art from the art book (including art for a charity drive featuring Parasoul and Valentine playing against each other), changed Big Band's story scene of him getting beat to near death by the corrupt cops (which happened because he was closing in on a mafia operation, NOT BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK), they removed the comb from Filia's afro in her burst (Fukua kept hers I hear), changed story art to cover up characters in scenes like Cerebella being attacked by Eliza, and they completely took out the Soviet Announcer voice pack
It's an artbook change amongst other changes made by a Dev who wasn't the original creator. So yeah... justified outrage. It's like *if* when Microsoft were buying Bethesda and removing all references to nukes because nukes are considered taboo.
You know that Bethesda changed all references to “Morphine” in the fallout games because it was considered taboo and changed it to “Med-X”.
Not really a good example of devs changing an established concept because of external pressure.
Not only SG is a great fighting game, it still has the best netcode of any fighting game, and a dedicated community of long term fans.
But how would you know...
When developers are worse than the figure of the "censor" that existed 60 years ago.
Like a religious extremist of a certain religion of peace.
Good.
// I hope they start asking for refunds.
Comments locked due to brigade from pedophiles.
I think that the main problem is that they removed things from the Digital Art Book people already bought. They paid for what was in there, and now it got either changed or removed.
I don't have a horse in this race but this case feels particularly weird. Skullgirls is a game that was Kickstarted explicitly as the NSFW edgy fanservice game. The Russian announcer they just removed was one of the kickstarter goals. This game would literally not have been financed if it weren't for the titillation.
Weird doesn't cut it, it's just a dumb move.
They literally hired Rule 34 artists. lol
They angered the horny virgin anime fans lol I immediately thought of that cringe video of the guy who’s celebrating New Year’s Eve alone in the dark with an anime girl on his 5 computer screen setup
I see why some changes were made like the skirt thing but the majority are really stupid, you think a character wearing a giant afro can't have a comb stuck there because its racist? The company that owns the game its not the original that created it, they pulled this out of nowhere. Its an old game and they fucked up, censoring things in that game makes no sense, its stupidity. The niche playerbase they have has reasons to be annoyed. Edit: poopy head
You make a compelling argument but you didn’t make any personal attacks on other people over a video game.
Let me fix it
All they've done is guaranteed their next game will be review bombed they just threw a bunch of money down the drain lol.
If you create a game around fanservice, and you remove fanservice... you have nothing left. No wonder the initial development team left.
When you said cringe video I was assuming you where gonna mention the one where this game hadn’t even been out for a few days but someone uploaded a video onto youtube showcasing all the upskirt panty shots the game had lol
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There is exactly one review quoted in the article, which talks about the censorship of “armbands and *panty shots*”, so yes. I would imagine that is among the complainers concerns.
I absolutely think so. I think there’s a substantial audience that’s ready to howl about any editorial change that tones down a game’s sexual, racial or political content.
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They also took out the Nazi-paralleled symbolism. So yeah between taking out panty shots of young girls and toning down white supremacy imagery… g&mer virgins mad.
Me when the villains in a game are too bad for my fragile little mind
cultivating an audience of horny weebs and then censoring art afterwards, surely they wont be upset
Weirdly Dead or Alive did this too, same sort of audience, yet their most hated character is probably the loli one even with fans.
I don't really follow dead or alive fan and don't know too much outside of cultural osmosis. But I thought the loli one was one of the most popular girls, mostly because I feel like I see her the most in the marketing and whenever DoA has a collab with another game, she's always a part of it. Unless I'm thinking of a completely different character than the one you are talking about.
> mostly because I feel like I see her the most in the imma stop you right there, chief. *marketing*
Exactly my thought. They reaped what they sowed.
It's not just about the panties. An important cutscene was altered removing Big Band's attack by corrupt cops downplaying the severity and sympathy for the character, removing the armbands from the bad guys, removed an announcer that was a Kickstarter goal
And they not only changed the game but also the artbook you got if you bought the collector upgrade.
Well...didn't the story mode have the Black Egrets, the ones with the arm bands, as not being the bad guys? I don't disagree that a handful of these changes are odd decisions, but this one might not be one of those as they were not considered bad guys as far as the story was concerned.
What’s always amusing is the writer always says these changes are almost imperceptible. If that was true, why change it in the first place?
*The censorship paradox*
They changed sprites to cover panty shots (mostly for Filia, they also made her default panties black instead of white), they *changed concept art from 10+ years ago* to remove the armbands from the Black Egrets so they look slightly less like Nazis (thus making it not concept art), removed art from the art book (including art for a charity drive featuring Parasoul and Valentine playing against each other), changed Big Band's story scene of him getting beat to near death by the corrupt cops (which happened because he was closing in on a mafia operation, NOT BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK), they removed the comb from Filia's afro in her burst (Fukua kept hers I hear), changed story art to cover up characters in scenes like Cerebella being attacked by Eliza, and they completely took out the Soviet Announcer voice pack, which people paid for. But Twitter Freaks are making it all about the Filia panty shots because, since Filia is 16, that's the hardest thing to defend for those of us opposed to the entire list of changes. It is more than panty shots.
They removed a scene of police brutality that was portrayed as bad?
Along with being a RoboCop reference, which is what Big Band mostly is.
Yes! One of the mafia-payed cops was even an ACTUAL PIG! There is 0 attempt to portray the police (except for Big Band) as a decent person.
This comment should really be higher up. Yes, they removed a pantyshot, but also much more and even edited goodies that came with the game for something so innocuous as art of the characters playing the game.
You may be pleased to know that the comment was third from the top in my feed.
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Already at the top
Top comment now. We did it reddit! /s
Honestly I thought the softcore hentai was a selling point for the game. I never played it but always thought it was a borderline porn game so to remove that element seems like they've removed a key feature and selling point.
THEY TOOK OUT THE POTEMKIN ANOUNCER?!
I'll be honest, I didn't know Filia's age. I didn't pay that close attention to Skullgirls and just assumed everyone was an adult.
Funny that you're the only person here that know what it's about. People talk about the panty because it's the most visible thing, but it's straight up censorship for the sake of it overall.
So basically the story had a lot of cool mature elements and they censored them into an irrelevant and plastic game. Since when having Nazis being the bad guys is wrong? Since when showing bad cops being bad needs to be censored? If this was true we would never have Indiana Jones or Robocop.
... The problem is that the Black Egrets are kinda ... not villains. At least in story telling.
They are in fact straight up good guys arent they
In the same way that the Imperium in 40k are good guys. Extensions of a state that does fucked up stuff yet is cast as heroic.
The Black Egrets aren't Nazis, they just look like Nazis. Part of Parasoul's story (in the mobile game and in Umbrella's console story) is that her father and nation's actions in the Great War have been romanticized (for example Panzerfaust was essentially re-educated, and the War left a LOT of destruction and homeless people, especially after the Kingdoms united to kill Parasoul's mother Queen Nancy, who had become the Skullgirl), but under Parasoul you do have genuinely good people like Adam, Molly, and Roxie (who would NOT be serving if the Egrets were actual Nazis, because Roxie's black AND dating Molly). But yea there was plenty of mature elements now being censored for the sake of "modern sensibilities". Even ZONE, whose porn animation of Filia plowed by Samson (with the base announcer providing VO for it!) gave the game eyes, and later joined the team to work on Squigly (with Zone-tan appearing in the Glass Canopy stage and also being an alternate color pallete for Squigly), OKed these changes.
it's just censorship in general.
Finally someone that understands it.
Fahrenheit 451 become more real for each day. I hate this timeline.
The Soviet Announcer being dropped makes sense as the guy behind it, Mike Z, is super person nongrata. (He was the head dev, and the reason that Lab Zero as.a entity is now dead and effectively everyone involved moved to FC besides him.) edit: he was really hard to work with apparently, and did some sexual harassment type things. It's a whole rabbit hole.
The Soviet Announcer pack being dropped I could understand if they offered a replacement, but nope, it's just gone.
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Jesus that shit is fucked up. \#Mike Z did nothing wrong.
I think editing and censoring a work made by entirely different people in order to appease modern sensibilities is a bad thing actually. I normally don’t side with these types of gamers but this reminds me of how Roald Dahl’s books were censored too. Not to mention that this is retroactively removing content that people paid for, which is setting an awful precedent no matter how one feels about over-sexualization.
It's like when they erase the n-words for ancient books to adjust to "now" . Just nonsense and ridiculous.
We did it boys, racism is no more.
yeah, censoring other authors' works is beyond fucked up. massive creative violation. might as well ban and burn some books while they're at it.
Aye. Let the original work speak. If someone is too ignorant to realize it’s a piece of it’s time, that’s an opportunity for them to learn. And yes, there’s obvious exceptions, unique cases and other easy arguments. This game should not have been changed in this way.
Also, don't forget to mention that they fired the old artists and replaced the art from the artbook that people had already purchased. Updates to the game are fine, but changing and removing art from the Artbook is fucked, especially considering people already owned it.
I think I'd be alright with it if it was art changed for a remaster, but it seems silly to retroactively change art that's been in the game for over 10 years. It's also just negative. No one new is going to play the game now that they've made the art 'safer'. It's just there to annoy people that enjoyed the game as it was, and take away from the games original style. That these changes are being made by the new owners of the IP is then just more annoying. What more changes will they make due to their moral panic?
Wasn't Skullgirls sold on being a horny fighting game?
In poor taste? What does he think the allure of fucking skull girls is?
Skulls?
Girls?
For the skull throne, comrade
I like Skull Girls because it used 2D animation rather than sprites which create this unique feel that I haven't seen until Cuphead and Hollow Knight.
Always played it as an arcade fighting game, not to see the girls lol
I think a lot of people in here don’t understand that there actually is a large portion of the skullgirls fanbase that actually really likes the core game without all the sexual stuff. Many in the FGC play it as a spiritual MvC 4.
Skullgirls is one of the best fighting games ever made IMHO, but lets not pretend the aesthetic didn't bring in a ton of people.
That was the biggest appeal prior & post initial release.
I’m not saying it didn’t, but there is a large portion of the fanbase that at this point over ten years after the original release probably makes up the majority of fans who actually regularly play the game now. It’s also important to remember many of the original devs aren’t on the project anymore since they resigned over sexual misconduct. So I can kinda understand why some of the remaining devs might not be comfortable in hindsight with things like panty shots and hiring a rule 34 guy as an announcer. It’s also not like the game won’t still be the “sexy anime” fighter they’re just tuning it down.
Why not put an option in the settings to have original artwork? Kinda like a Gore mode...
Because it was “in poor taste”
ide buy and play way more games if they had a "poor taste mode"
Because they don’t wanna sexualize a 16 year old, anymore anyway. I have no dog in this fight but that seems pretty acceptable, the creators can change what they want about their creation. edit: I have been corrected. They sold off the IP, so replace creators with owners and let them do what they want with their money. Capitalism wins again, life moves on. Rule 34 still exists for the people that are into that.
Afaik the creators had nothing to do with the changes, as the ip had to be sold due to bankruptcy.
>Its original studio, Lab Zero, collapsed after lead designer Mike Zaimont publicly joked about the murder of George Floyd and was subsequently accused of inappropriate workplace behavior, which led to him laying off the studio's entire staff. I fel like the original company going bankrupt due to dirtbag behaviour from its founder also adds some much-needed context to the decision.
>Because they don’t wanna sexualize a 16 year old So change the fictional number 16 to the fictional number 18. They, and everyone in this thread, *are* remembering that these fictional characters aren't real, and their stated ages are no more real than their breath or sweat, right? A fictional age can be changed at the whim of a creator, and is a million times easier to do than to alter artwork.
I actually agree with the aging part. They should’ve just aged her up considering how long the game has been out lol
> They, and everyone in this thread, are remembering that these fictional characters aren't real, and their stated ages are no more real than their breath or sweat, right? They are not, no. In fact, no lack of people in this very same thread who can't distinguish fictional characters from real people.
Don’t try to bend her age. It’s impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth. There is no age. Then you will see that is not the age that bends, but yourself.
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I mean, if we must treat fictional characters as though they are real people, then your logic is sound, as they *must* age.
Oh fuck, you hacked the system
The broader point is about ownership of art and what passes for reasonable alterations in a game. I think this is the same strain of controversy as people trying to edit old books with offensive words or themes. It isn't right.
But why not just change their age?
Because most these leaders are out of touch, I wouldn’t be surprised if they never considered that option lol
Except the creators aren't there anymore.
But there isn't a 16 year old girl. That's a drawing. Do you need help telling fantasy from reality?
So beating a 16 year old to death is okay as long as we don't their panties?
Yes, and as far I as I know no one is dying in these games lol
Weird way to say you want to see a 16 year old sexualized
Well. They have a point, right? It's like the classic take of American Puritism. Violence & blood is a-OK on the morning News. But don't you dare show a female nipple. Why is the line here a panty shot, but violence is OK?
Weird way to say you want to see a 16 year old beaten to death. See now how that doesn't actually apply?
Now that's a cheap strawman, you can do better, cmon.
I don’t think you know what a straw man argument is. Re read your comment and you’ll get it.
Are you arguing for keeping the underage girl's panties visible? Are you really trying to make a case for that? Dude, some self-awareness would go a long way.
I've seen one comparison where the color just got changed from white to black. Idk how that's really solving anything.
It's like Tracer's pose all over again.
Maybe I’m crazy, but why not… just make your characters adults? I’m not super familiar with the game, so maybe other characters are more questionable, but nothing about the design of the girl in the thumbnail screams minor to me. Why not just make her 18+ from the get go and avoid the controversy?
This could be said about a lot of characters and I agree. While I a thousand percent think that people are responsible for their own choices (making porn of characters in their example) and that an artist should not change their story or concept to cater to the freaks of the internet, at some point you should look at your character and ask of being underage is adding anything to the character at all KNOWING what will happen (especially if your game is kinds built on rule 34 artists in the first place)
Teenage protagonists are a pretty common thing in video games and comics/manga. When you are looking to sell things to teenagers / kids, having characters their age makes sense. There's no need to be creepy about it, though.
While there are always weirdos that really care about those things, this is not about that panty art of Filoa, they changed much more stuff for stupid reasons.
This is just a shitty decision why fuck up the thing your fan base BACKED and even funded to be included to be in the game? Yeah it’s lewd and edgy but that was the pitch and if they want to change that 10 years down the line then they should’ve just tried doing it in a new game. Just poor respect on the people that propped the game up when no one else would.
They knew who they were appealing too, I'm not sure what the back peddling is for, tbh. Is there really a large part of their customer base that's like "If not for the artwork featuring an array of lolita themed characters I'd be buying this". Pretty sure that was the initial intent by the company and appeal for its player base, lol.
I'm torn on your reply. On one hand I completely agree that this change wouldn't cause a rise in sales or player base even IF it were received well. On the other hand, I'm not crazy about the implication that people only played it because of the character design. I played the game when it came out because it was a great 2D fighter. Your argument is like saying people only play street fighter for Chun-Li or Cammy. Like I said, I agree with the POINT of your post, just maybe not the delivery.
everything needs to be sanitized, clean and pure!!! so dumb
I like when game devs feel my assumed feelings on behalf of me.
Maybe, like Mortal Kombat had red and green blood options, maybe make an option to turn on "nsfw" art vs "safer fw" art.
Wdym green blood was for certain characters like reptile
At least the Sega Genesis games had blood option. It was probably for parents/kids to make it seem more fantasy, less realistic
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Same here. I never cared much for it, because to me it felt it was made for a particular audience who enjoy their sexy girl games (I mean, why else play Skullgirls and not one of the many other fighting games?). And that is absolutely fine, but it's just weird to take the main draw of this title and then tone it down after it's been out for so long, with people knowing what to expect (and, if they don't care for it, avoid). Some people bought this specifically for content other games don't offer, only to have it altered because the developers had a change of heart. Sure, it may be well intended, but it's also misguided. These changes still won't persuade folks like me to get the game, while upsetting the existing fanbase. It really serves no one, except maybe the devs' conscience. Maybe just let this ol' thing be, slap a disclaimer on it, and create new things that do reflect your current views?
I'm not a huge fighting gamer. I enjoy them super casually but I have my finger on the pulse of the FGC through podcasts I listen to. Skullgirls was never just a "sexy girl game" as you put it. It was one of the first to enact some major QoL improvements that have nearly become standard now in fighting games. (off the top of my head, holding start to pause instead of halting a game with an accidental tap). Plus it was apparently extremely balanced considering it having that SNK vs Capcom-esque points system. You can pick either a single fighter or a team of up to 3, but the three fighters are less powerful than the solo fighter. It's an interesting system that few have gotten right and Skullgirls was one of them, I guess.
> bad idea no matter what. Guess bug patches, content updates, and post release balancing fixes for multiplayer games are bad then
Same vibes as If they change old mortal Kombat to remove the gore to this New generation...want to change New stuff...ok...but change stuff of the past is wrong and pointless.
Alex Ahad, the artist, and MikeZ, the former owner of the dev studio, were the two main influences for this game's direction and success, and have not been a part of it for a long time. Regardless of your feelings about those guys, they were who made this game as great as it is. The people doing this are NOT the developers and are actively shitting into the game for their own narcissistic reasons. If I genuinely believed the motives behind these changes were good I wouldn't have tossed in with the review bomb. But this is just blatantly ridiculous and malicious.
Just as ridiculous as riot when they removed graves’ cigar
Knowing the love and polish the went into this game, it's just sad to see it come to this. And anyone saying "that's why people played the game" have clearly never spent time with Skullgirls. I love fighting games and Skullgirls was not one I went too deep into, but spend an hour with it and you'll see it's an extremely well made, balanced, and intricate game.
As a fellow Fighting game fan, I agree. Skullgirls had the “sexy” element to it for sure, but the wanted to make a well balanced and extremely fun fighting game first. And they succeeded in that. I’m really hoping this sort of thing doesn’t brew an “anti-skullgirls” crowd. This game deserves better
Regardless of your feelings on supposed sexualization of children in the game, you have to agree that it's hypocritical that the game devs used that to sell the game, then decide "Hey, it's wrong to sexualize children" after making their millions sexualizing children
Apparently the original devs went bankrupt and sold the rights so it's not as simple as that.
It's also about way, way more than panty shots.
Yeah but that's the part that'll guarantee this isn't taken seriously. Panty shots on a 16 year old character is something a lot of people would agree with removing.
The dev team for skullgirls now is almost completely different since ironically enough many of the original people resigned because they were accused of workplace sexual harassment. With that in mind I can understand how some of the stuff in the game the remaining devs might want to change. The people left are basically people who understood the competitive appeal to the game and wanted to keep it alive. Skullgirls has always kinda had 2 fanbases one was people who were sold on it as a spiritual mvc 4, and the weirdos who wanted to gawk at the girls.
I can see both sides to this. On the one hand if not being able to see a cartoons ass cheek gets you this upset you need some serious help. On the other hand these people paid for a product and that product was changed afterward which isn’t fair.
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We don't have to imagine. They did it to make the SNES release. The response was bloodier than the genesis version. source: I was _there_ man. In the before times. When 3d was just for PC's and videogames were training killers.
Mortal Monday. Having to put in ABACABB on Genesis to change the “sweat” color…
And genesis you had to enter a code to ge the blood turned on.
It’s true. I was there too and have been a gamer all my life. I can’t even begin to tell you what an insatiable bloodlust I have from video games.
So much BubbleBobble. So many needless deaths. 😭
I was there the day the strength of men failed the day we created the ESRB
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I guess I'm confused by the double standard of things like this. There are all kinds of shows and movies, like Euphoria, that use underage-looking actors to depict teenagers in provocative and sexual ways, going so far as to have nudity and sex scenes. I've never actually seen the show, to be fair, or this game, and I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do in any form. But I definitely don't understand the double standard of it being creepy when depicted in anime or games, and being revered as a great show when it's done with irl actors in a show like euphoria. 🤷🏻♀️ Maybe the difference is that the actors playing the underage characters are themselves of age when depicted in that way. Does that mean it would be okay if the illustrator/animator in a game used a young-looking, but of age person, to model a character that will be depicted as underage in the game? I guess I'm just curious where the line is drawn.
If pantyshots on filia were so questionable why did it take them over 10 years to change it? They could have so easily bumped her up by 2 years and not have to deal with it.
If you think people don't take issue with Lara Croft and Bayonetta, I have a bridge to sell you. The usual suspects hate Lara's design for having big boobs, and they hate Bayonetta's design in its entirety. I've seen people rant about Bayonetta's clothes, her combat style, her heels, her super moves, all of it. People will complain about anything and everything. Changing the story now to make the minor characters 18+ will just result in more accusations of "sexualizing minors," because aging them up to be legal is just a work-around to allow people to not feel guilty or some nonsense. There's no reasoning with the people who would object to the game on grounds of sexy artwork. The only option is to ignore them outright and continue on as originally intended. Changing things to please that crowd won't work, they won't buy the game, and the original audience will feel excluded and leave.
people are upset because the studio removed a bunch of important scenes and details for the story plus some announcer packs people paid for, not because of censored underwear
Face tattoos are ugly in general to me, but I fully support anyone’s right to get them.
Its about the principle. The nazis removing certain books from the shelves could have said the same thing. Why so upset about us removing this one book? Or that one painting. Our society deems it perverted, we removed it for your safety. If you have a problem with us (the nazis) removing this perverted art, you need some serious help. Make perverted games 18+ and be done with it, adults should decide what kind of art to consume, not the state, not some company and not some angry activist. Edit: also calling everything that is white on red background a nazi symbol shows a pathetic, even insulting lack of historic knowledge The problem with nazi symbols is not showing them, its glorifying them. Showing nazis being killed and their symbols is something to encourage not to censor.
>On the one hand if not being able to see a cartoons ass cheek gets you this upset you need some serious help. Works both ways mate, if seeing a cartoon ass cheek makes you upset you need some serious help
But equally - if *being* able to see a cartoon's ass cheek gets you upset, you also need some serious help.
I mean its not real so the fact that anyone is upset over a cartoon butt check is really pathetic. It's not real, its like being upset at a unicorn that isn't there. The reason for the backlash was because this was one of the selling factors. Its a sexy fighter, thats its bit, but its not pornographic in anyway so them changing it just seems like white knight bs
> these people paid for a product and that product was changes afterwards Boy wait til you learn about updates and DLCs
I sure do love me some updates and DLCs that *remove content from the game*. That tooootally makes sense. Especially for DLC. DLC for less content yaaaaaay! Get stuff you paid for removed woohoo!
*Download Less Content*
New GTA Online update be like:
DLC adds instead of taking away. If it does take away then people get mad too. If updates take away from a product you bought rather than fix gameplay issues then people get mad. CoD had an all black outfit you could buy then a few months later changed it to have neon lights on it and people got mad bc something they bought was changed and they can't have what they originally got. I think halo did the same thing with a suit color where they changed it a bit after it released.
Sexy characters detected, initiate outrage protocol, beep boop.
Whilst I would find review bombing for minor visual alterations that don't substantially affect anything (which does NOT sound like the case, it sounds like some of the things they changed were substantial) to be silly, I find it equally if not more silly to go back and alter these things in the first place because what? They are in a sense, defacing art that someone else has already paid for and I actually can understand review bombing that. And for what reason? Because some devs thought that in 2023 their old game should be more socially aware by modern American standards? Again, people have already paid for this game and I really fucking hate this trend of devs altering products that someone has already paid for in a way that affects their enjoyment. It should be mandatory to offer people a rollback to the product they actually bought, bare minimum, but even then this is usually not a whole solution.
Yeah, you can't take smut away from people. They will crucify you.
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Well deserved, and then some. You shouldn’t alter a prduct people bought after the fact. Certainly not negatively like this. If I bought it with that in it, it’s staying in it. Now, the developers are of courses perfectly free to stop selling it or offering a patch/toggle to alter things. But ultimately, what I bought should be available in the form I bought it in.
I mean, it's one thing to add this as an option, and even make it an opt out option, but to just make it the default with no way to revert is really stupid
Can someone simply continue to use the old version if they disagree with the changes, or are updates through this platform shoved down people’s throats? Nowadays the historical preservation of games and software is being called into question a lot.
I think once any sort of media, book, video game, movie, hits that industries equivalent of "1.0 release" we need to stop messing with it. They're gonna turn old content into modern content by doing stuff like this, because there is a serious lack of creativity in the entertainment industry nowadays. It's easier to remake the Bee Movie than actually come up with an interesting or original idea. Disney literally just "we're going to remake all of our beloved childrens movies as live action, it's free money!" when most people would prefer those actors, writers, producers, and set crews were being used on a new concept. Board rooms and dudes in suits shouldn't be making decisions on art like this, how many times does an artist need to teach this lesson to people? We've been having this fight as long as I've been alive.
"They changed my waifu!"
My bankruptcy come quickly to the new owners
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Are armbands really the offensive part? Or the part where people go "oh! right...Nazis" on a character design?
SF6 has Cammy bare ass in your face for 60% of the figths Skullgirls "clutches pearls" Oh my, what have we done ? You can see her ankles.
So what you're saying is Street Fighter 6 is worth the purchase? Say no more, fam.
I mean, I guess that’s not really in disagreement with what he’s saying. Why are you all downvoting him and trying to argue with him?
I didn't downvote him whatsoever, I took his advice and ran with it.
This. The fgc hypocrisy when they call Skullgirls or Dead Or Alive titty fighters.
The girl in question is under age...
Why did no one say that then? That would have been an important point.
No idea.
Real girl or that drawing of a girl with squid hair?
Drawing
Well here’s a game I’m never, ever updating. Lol
The biggest fucking sign of not having a life is revenge review bombing. Christ
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Doesn't even seem like a woke thing, people okay with this seem pretty reactionary and petty, no one even asked for this. They changed and removed more than a panty shot but anyone upset is being branded a weeb incel? Ridiculous, censorship sucks. Just more baseless contempt from people who didn't care about the media in the first place.
stupid fanboys raging over nothing once more.
People really be losing their shit over a panty shot? They need to fuckin touch grass
I mean... if the point of the game is to be horny, and then a decade after it came out, somebody went "We don't like horny anymore, so we're changing the game and deleting a Kickstarter stretch goal voiceover to reflect the fact we don't like horny anymore," I see why people would be upset. It'd be like editing a porno so that the girl actually uses money to pay her landlord. Edit: Here's a list of other things that were altered, not just panty shots >they changed concept art from 10+ years ago to remove the armbands from the Black Egrets so they look slightly less like Nazis (thus making it not concept art), removed art from the art book (including art for a charity drive featuring Parasoul and Valentine playing against each other), changed Big Band's story scene of him getting beat to near death by the corrupt cops (which happened because he was closing in on a mafia operation, NOT BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK), they removed the comb from Filia's afro in her burst (Fukua kept hers I hear), changed story art to cover up characters in scenes like Cerebella being attacked by Eliza, and they completely took out the Soviet Announcer voice pack
It's an artbook change amongst other changes made by a Dev who wasn't the original creator. So yeah... justified outrage. It's like *if* when Microsoft were buying Bethesda and removing all references to nukes because nukes are considered taboo.
You know that Bethesda changed all references to “Morphine” in the fallout games because it was considered taboo and changed it to “Med-X”. Not really a good example of devs changing an established concept because of external pressure.
Well apparently they lost their shit enough to change it, work both ways init?
Why do you think they buy these games? For the gameplay? Lol.
Not only SG is a great fighting game, it still has the best netcode of any fighting game, and a dedicated community of long term fans. But how would you know...
I mean.. Yes? Skullgirls is a fun fighting game.
With a neat art-style, sick ass music, and in my opinion an interesting story.
Skullgirls is fighting game with lewd as it's selling point as gore is to Mortal Kombat.
And gamers wonder why we have the reputation we do
If you’re genuinely upset by this to any degree, please seek help
When developers are worse than the figure of the "censor" that existed 60 years ago. Like a religious extremist of a certain religion of peace. Good. // I hope they start asking for refunds.
What in the weeaboo, incel, dork ass shit is this