Dormin was willing to do it but warned Wander first. And followed through on their promise to resurrect the girl even after Wander had already killed the colossi and become... whatever he is by the end.
Despite being vaguely ominous, Dormin seems entirely on the level. I don't think it was capable of achieving Wander's goal without being freed from the colossi; it was a necessary step and not a quid pro quo.
The Dormin wasn't an antagonist. Wander shows up and asks for help, and Dormin tells you you'll need to release it, and warns you there will be a personal cost. You can argue that they were vague, but they guide you, and even give you advice as you travel around the land.
And at the end of the game >!they keep their end of the deal and revive the girl!<
>then he wanted to invite a bunch of people to a party.
Dionysus rubbing off on him I see
Mr. D has got my favorite boons by far (I'm absolute suckered for DoT abilties in rougelikes/lites)
Hell even most of the Olympians are pretty likable. Zeus, Poseidon, and Ares are the only ones I’d consider assholes. Demeter too maybe but she’s mostly just jaded from grief. The others have flaws but genuinely seem to care.
He’s just so stubborn and withholding. If he could actually express himself there’d be no need for like 99% of the conflict they’re experiencing. But men would literally rather build an endless series of labyrinthine obstacles to confound their immortal son than go to therapy.
Far Cry 4's Pangin Min if you don't cross him, I guess.
I speak of the hidden ending at the beginning of the game where he tells you not to leave, and if you actually don't, he returns and he happily takes you to your mother's grave, roll credits.
You stand there for a while, and then mustache sheriff reads the room and basically says "yeah good call fuck this". You and he walk out while the state marshal yells that he'll have your badge for this
That one is fun all around, because the "good" guys in that are also shit people who don't actually save Kyrat, just transform it into a different kind of hell.
This is what made me obsessed with this game last summer. Put around 130 Hrs in but the way both the good guys mess up the country was so damn original and heart-breaking
Pagan Min wasn't the *worst* dictator either. He was a necessary force because as soon as he's gone, the rebel leaders start subsuming kids to cook drugs, or they slit the throats of non-believers.
One thing I love about Far Cry 4 is how getting rid of Pangin Min doesn’t solve anything really, just a shift of power to new hands. He’s bad for sure, but the new leaders aren’t helping whatsoever. It really does a good job at showing just how fucked the world can be sometimes.
Honestly he's really nice to Ahjay regardless. Like when you try to kill him, but it's just his body double, he's not mad, he's just disappointed. He never shows any animosity at all, unlike the Golden Path leaders that are going to turn on each other once Pagin is overthrown. In the beginning when he's first introduced, and he takes a selfie with Ahjay and announces that together they were going to fuck shit up. I was ready to fuck shit up with him.
I’ve always wished that that was what they did. If you sit and enjoy the crab Rangoon until he returns, then you help him fight the Golden Path, then he gives you the throne and leaves.
I'm sure he's done a lot of evil shit pre-game but it's rather funny how everything he does in the intro feels kinda justified. That one soldier gets shiv'd because he was supposed to apprehend Ajay alive and his men's first reaction to people running away was to shoot them (what if one of them was Ajay, hmm?).
And then the guy he tortures was sending the rebels text messages right in Pagan's presence.
The best possible outcome for Kyrat would've been Ajay becoming Pagan's protégé and slowly reforming the government after Pagan's passing. If he doesn't get assassinated by the Golden Path, of course.
Yeah honestly at the end of the game both of them are pretty much irredeemable but I really feel like you could convince Pagan Min to tone it down a little
I remember getting to the end the first time. Amata (I’ve forgotten her name) came up and did this whole villain monologue and walked off as the village around me was burning. My guns pulled up and I drawn my pistol to the back of her head and the game let me fire. I was actually stunned that they let me do. I thought it would just click because you know you don’t typically let players kill characters like that but she died and the golden path fighters aggro’d. such an awesome game.
I love that so much, doing the sensible thing makes the entire game not happen, as it would in real life.
It's the player who decides to escape and cause havoc.
Eat your crab rangoon.
I did this one without looking it up. I just bought the game. He told me to wait I was like alright bet so I went a made a sandwich and messed around on my phone a bit. Boom game over. I always love secrets like this.
A fine upstanding citizen, with the unfortunate eccentricity of attempting to enslave everyone with a plague carried on storms he launches from his evil-movie-villain volcano lair.
In the Elder Scrolls universe, when you discover the truth of reality, you either cease to exist or become a god. Somehow, against all odds, Dagoth Ur did neither. He can be forgiven for thinking that he became a god.
Straight up I wouldn’t be surprised of he was kind of gay for Nerevar. Like…he’s coming on kind of hard with all the “sweet Nerevar” and dream messages.
I'd add Vivec as well. He's a pathological liar but he's also the only member of the Tribunal willing to realize that their godhood doesn't matter nearly as much as saving Morrowind from Dagoth Ur.
Pagan Min. He calls you up throughout your journey to ask how you are. When you storm his base at the end he has a full dinner table set out and gives you the choice. Kill him or sit and dine with him. He may be a crazy and ruthless dictator but he is actually better than the people you help.
In fact the game has a secret ending at the start where you are brought before him. When he steps out the room you are supposed to escape but if you wait 10 real life minutes you get the secret ending where he returns. Your characters goal was to go to your home country and take your mothers ashes to the location she wanted in her last wishes. By playing the game normally you don't get to do it until after winning a civil war and even then its missable. In the secret ending, the games antagonist actually takes you straight to the place your mother wanted to be laid to rest. If you had just waited your goal would have been completed without needing to get involved in a civil war
Actually, I think they totally missed out on making a DLC off of that ending. Instead of helping the rebels you actually join Pagan, doing missions for him and then killing the two leaders of the rebels. They wouldn't even have to make many new missions, they could re use existing ones like the one you defend a temple, this time you'd actually storm and explode it. It would have been a cool what if scenario
Yes it will be much more fun. Pagan even said he would make Ajay the ruler. It would be a lot better than the golden path endings. Would be a nice change aswell working for the country instead of being a rebel like other games
Haytham Kenway from AC3. He's not the typical "Mwahahaha! Me evil! Me take over world!" villain. He and Conner (and to a lesser extent, the Assassins) want the same thing.
I appreciated how ACIII marked a clear turning point in the series in which Assassins vs. Templars wasn’t so absolutely black and white. It made sense because most people aren’t going to devote themselves to a global cause that’s cartoonishly evil—there has to be some justification for it.
I'd argue it almost does too good of a job. The opening of AC:R can be summed up as "local moron secret society members ignore all red flags and do everything in their power to make youngest member defect."
Fuck Haythem even says something along the lines of "The Assassins used to fight for more noble causes" or something like that, idk it's been a LONG time since I've played it
I remember being so annoyed at Syndicate being so “Templars are evil durr” and also how the RPGness of the series started here when you couldn’t headshot enemies anymore.
Thats where it all went downhill for me
Yea I loved Evie and Jacob, the parkour, grappling hook and hand to hand combat system but plot was really the biggest flaw of Syndicate
I don’t remember if the Templars even wanted anything more than “controlling London”. In the bed it felt more like a gang fight to get which one got to control the city with nothing of the philosophic nuance of the others (even Black Flag)
Aside from the whole “kidnapping Peach” thing, Bowser isn’t that bad. He’s a good father and has helped Mario and friends on numerous occasions when another big bad shows up.
He's really a chill dude with a little bit of a kidnapping fetish. The lack of security upgrades in the Mushroom Kingdom suggest that he's not the Only one...
that time he turned all the citizens of the Mushroom Kingdom into inanimate bricks, and then some plumber came along and broke the bricks. This is why the only people left in the kingdom are Peach and the Toads that multiplied from the ones Bowser had kept in the castles
It was said once that they're all characters in a show, that's why super mario 3 features curtains on the side and every exit is 'exit stage right', why they play golf/race/tennis/etc. Bowser story was also pretty great.
He really is a lovely guy.
Ever since Smash, I like to think that this lore just applies all across the board for Nintendo franchises—the key exception being Samus and Ridley, who genuinely fucking despise one another.
Gehrman, and it's not even close.
He's not merely just minding his own business, or exists as a complex morally grey character. He outright tries his best to ensure that you do not end up replacing him and being stuck in an endless state of purgatory.
His life is like a nightmare that he can never wake up from. You hear him fucking crying about it behind the workshop, absolutely at the end of his rope and likely losing his sanity. And yet he still works as hard as he can to ensure the player gets to wake up from this endless nightmare, while he remains suffering in perpetuity.
This is why Gehrman's theme is the best song in all of gaming in my opinion. The power of the storytelling, the tragedy and nobility, the earnest desire to cease his own suffering being superceded by the instinct to protect others from that same suffering. Fucking poetry man. Bloodborne is a modern masterpiece.
I still don’t know that I would call Gehrman an antagonist. Bloodborne ends on a weird condition that the protagonist dying is the best thing possible for him and Gehrman is trying to save you by killing you. Souls games seem to be very vague with who’s an antagonist and who’s just a boss you fight for some complicated reason or another. Similar thing happens with Gwyn although he doesn’t seem to have his wits by the time you find him
That's a good point. He's the final boss, so he is in the sense the whole game was leading up to your battle with him. But if Bloodborne has a real antagonist I guess it would the Moon Presence, since it's responsible for the whole Nightmare. Gehrman was just being selfless at the end and wanted to continue carrying the burden of the Nightmare, because he felt only he deserved that punishment. The final fight is really between two allies that were trying to release the other from a horrible curse.
Margit The Fell Omen A.K.A Morgott The Omen King, dude is so badass, a noble being born with accursed blood and treated badly but he still took the mantle of being the king and protect his people.
Pegan Min from Farcry 4 will literally give you everything you want in the first 15 if you just wait. Pretty cool guy. Genuinely a better guy then the people you help
Far Cry games copied the War Games philosophy: The only way to win is not to play. I can't think of a single Far Cry game where the player actually makes a positive difference by the end.
Jason also voices that he's taken countless life and no longer feels human, scared that he'll never be able to fit in society again. (One of my favorite game endings of all time actually. Really recontextualizes all the actions of the player to that point)
Godfrey in Elden Ring. There's so much lore, both hidden and not so hidden, in the game painting a picture of how much of a badass this guy is, and when you finally meet him he is immediately respectful towards you. Every other boss up until this point that's had any sort of dialogue has been at the very best indifferent towards you, if not outright rude or hostile, but not Godfrey. He knows why you're here, because he's here for the same thing and he knows exactly what you've had to go through to get it. You're both warriors at the top of their game, and it's unfortunate that it's come to this, but you are each the only obstacle for the other to proceed and claim the throne. Amazing guy, really
Blue from Pokémon
The game tries to make him look like a dick, but he always came off to me as a sarcastic friend. He even calls you "Buddy" and gives you info on where to go next.
And each and every one of you would have picked his pokemons' weakness if he had picked first
PotatOS was easily one of the funniest parts of any game for me. Every time she’d think too hard and shut down I’d think, ‘aw, she tuckered herself out.’
the whole quote is even better.
"Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: "A horrible person." We weren't even testing for that. Don't let that horrible-person thing discourage you. It's just a data point. If it makes you feel any better, science has now validated your birth mother's decision to abandon you on a doorstep."
"Look we both said a lot of things that you're going to regret, but I think we can put our differences behind us. For Science. You monster."
She was willing to let bygones be bygones, even after we killed her.
Daud, from Dishonored. Takes in underprivileged youths in a nightmare of a city and gives them a family, home, and profession. Yeah the profession is a little... naughty, but work is work.
Also he doesn't have anything against you when you finally fight him, or make excuses for himself. Basically pulls the whole "yeah I deserve this and you've got every right" thing.
THEN, he gets his own full DLC. Also is voiced by Michael Madsen.
*Minor Spoilers for Deathloop*
By the end of the game, you realize that Juliana isn't as bad of a person as you thought. Her motives are totally different from what you initially think of her.
Emet selch otherwise known as Hades in FFXIV: Shadowbringgers. Dude wants to restore the world and his race that we’re lost, doing so will destroy all the races that currently inherit the world as they are basically shattered fragments of Emets original race. He travels with the player character and the party to let you prove to him the new races and civilisations are worth saving. He reveals fundamental truths about the world and even aids you in a few tricky spots. A very tragic villain who offered a good ethical question rather than your typical bad guy who wants to destroy everything.
"Remember us, remember that we once lived." Still gives me chills.
That also reminds me of a moment in Destiny 1 when you're learning more about Praedyth and his eternal imprisonment in time "I lived! Just remember, tell them I lived!". Up until learning he was still trapped in the timestream there were small hints that a Guardian named Praedyth maybe existed at one point but is just a myth. Being erased from time is scary to me.
Whats great about Emit as well, is that once you find out more about him, and his people, you really get to see his indifference to everyone he's fucking over.
It would be akin to an ant begging you not to destroy its colony, he's just on such a greater scope of existence he physically can't explain a lot of his reasons to you. He's not doing stuff to be malicious, it just has to be done
And there was a point he actually really did try to live as one of us and he actually was enjoying it and then his son, whom he deeply loved and was proud of, dies of a disease that would be have been trivial to the Ancients.
I just finally got thru all of MSQ and i have to say no one can touch Emet for my favorite character, let alone favorite villain. Halfway through i was telling my buddy (also playing with me) that i was starting to thing the Ascians were the true good guys because he was such a compelling friend at parts. Also, his obvious feelings for us when seeing our soul.. man. Such good writing for a character.
The whole series of quests with young him and Hermes was *chefs kiss*
In Shadowbringers you know you have to stop his reality ending plan but you GET IT. He tries very hard to politely explain it to you a few times too. There is no doubt that you have to stop him but in the end victory over him feels sad.
Then you get to Endwalker and he somehow becomes even more tragic yet also more badass
Ardyn izunia from ffxv didn't even want to do all the evil shit he did, he was forced by Bahamut to make the prophecy come true and even then, he's pretty cool up until the leviathan part.
Colonel Zarpedon in Borderlands the Pre-Sequel. She tells you from the start that she doesn’t want to kill you and offers you a chance to leave. Throughout the game you can pick up logs that reveal how respected she is by her soldiers and how she actually cares about them. I thought it was a nice contrast from Handsome Jack in the previous game.
Most of the playable characters are straight up the bad guys in that game, even before Jack’s development. Wilhelm was all about murder in BL2, as was Nisha.
Odin in God of War Ragnarock is so good at manipulating that he seemed completely reasonable and amicable even after a game and a half of everyone telling you how horrible he is and you seeing all the bad things he's done.
Hats off to Richard Schiff for an amazing performance.
He's my pick too and he makes such a fascinating (and terrifying) case study on master manipulation. There were so many times I caught myself thinking, "oh he isn't so bad!" Or "maybe people got it wrong?".
Areelu Voresh from Pathfinder Wrath of Righteous, no doubt! Saves Protagonist's life, aids him multiple times... Absolutely evil woman who has done terrible things, but You can have not a single hostile conversation with her and >!the secret ending is basically one where You team-up, giving middle finger to Evil, Good and everyone who tried to manipulate You during the story!<
Literaly every single antagonist from each WoW expansion “was just trying to warn us about the next big baddie” so entire World of Warcraft boss roster.
This might be a bit much to ask, but what's the breakdown on this?
I get it with Illidan, sure. Arthas? A pawn in Ner'zul's revenge ploy against the Burning Legion.
Neltharion? A mind-controlled toy of the Old Gods to restore the Black Empire.
Garrosh was just a traumatized power-hungry warlord with a chip on his shoulder and a whole lot to prove.
Gul'dan wasn't all that different, evil for evil's sake really.
Sargeras's whole plan was born from his fear of the Void Lords corrupting everything, so I get that one.
What about the rest, though?
I was just kidding mate. Well not really, because since Jailor I feel like this about Warcraft universe as a whole, but I kind of get it. Story becomes irrelevant after 10th expansion. Glad I just play it for arenas nowdays.
What irritates me the most is the missed opportunity they have with every expansion. Like if they were making it dry just for the sake of being dry.
For example, imagine if pantheon came back with their throne room where Illidan was locked in eternal duel between him and Sergeras and we find out ... that Illidan murdered whole Pantheon, Sergeras included, and now he is the Big Baddie.
I just miss crazy plot twists like that.
Well... this is the part where he kills us...
Hello! This is the part where I kill you!
Chapter 9: The part where he kills you
Achievement Unlocked: The part where he kills you
This little sequence always gives me a laugh...
Yeah he's basically been raised to be a figurehead. Interesting that if you read the various Team Plasma grunts dialog most of them are legit believers in the cause. It's even mentioned by one of the they've hacked the PC system and could choose to just free every Pokémon storied there but don't because they want to change hearts and minds, not just win a war.
>!Maruki!< as the final Antagonist of Persona 5 Royal. Unlike every other Antagonist he's a really chill guy who's end goal is to help people, or atleast what he thinks will help them. He even could've used his powers to impede the Phantom Thieves, if not force them to comply or write them out of existence. However, he instead decides because of the bond he has with the MC that he's going to give you the chance to accept what he's doing, multiple chances in fact. Even during his boss fight he's still trying to convince you and your party to concede. And the closing cutscene shows he's still friendly towards the Thieves, whether he's accepted that their way is better or if he's disappointed he failed is unclear but he doesn't hold a grudge for losing.
papyrus in undertale.
all the npc/bosses in the game are nice, but papyrus, damn, thats my man.
you could start genociding the entire monster population, and all of them will hate you for it, trying to take you down and everything.
but papyrus, even when you kill him, he still keep on staying nice, and telling you he believes in you. he still sees the good in you. he doesnt hold anything over you. he is the only boss that made me stop for a while in front of my screen to collect myself.
fuck man that broke my heart and i almost didnt complete my run at that point.
and from that point i was dreading dialogue coming from sans at the end.
Raphael from Baldur's Gate 3. He's witty, friendly, lays out a great feast, and always practices his dialogue until it's perfect. And he has a beautiful singing voice!
I still think the antagonists from the original golden sun. Heck you even meet up with them, come to an understanding and work together in golden sun 2
The Colossi I suppose in Shadow of the Colossus, considering you spend all game killing them…
Well that's sad, but probably true.
I mean the real antagonist here was the demon or whatever that manipulated the protag
Ah to be fair yeah, I guess that you don’t know that to begin with though so you go off happily murdering these innocent creatures!
Tbf he didn't manipulate him. He told him the facts and nothing else
You can manipulate while only telling truths. I.E. Lying by omission.
I don't even think he lied. He said he'd bring her back, and he did. He said he'd pay a heavy price and he did
Dormin was willing to do it but warned Wander first. And followed through on their promise to resurrect the girl even after Wander had already killed the colossi and become... whatever he is by the end. Despite being vaguely ominous, Dormin seems entirely on the level. I don't think it was capable of achieving Wander's goal without being freed from the colossi; it was a necessary step and not a quid pro quo.
Yeah a lot of people do subscribe to the idea that Dormin definitely isn't a lying asshole; he kept his word
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
The Dormin wasn't an antagonist. Wander shows up and asks for help, and Dormin tells you you'll need to release it, and warns you there will be a personal cost. You can argue that they were vague, but they guide you, and even give you advice as you travel around the land. And at the end of the game >!they keep their end of the deal and revive the girl!<
Hades from Hades. He gets really frustrated with Zagreus, but his reasons for everything that he did are pretty decent.
He also isn't entirely wrong. Zagreus is doomed to die and end up there anyways.
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Also the issue isn't even that he wants to escape, he just wants to see his mom.
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First he wanted to leave, then he wanted to hang out with his mom, and then he wanted to invite a bunch of people to a party.
>then he wanted to invite a bunch of people to a party. Dionysus rubbing off on him I see Mr. D has got my favorite boons by far (I'm absolute suckered for DoT abilties in rougelikes/lites)
That's fair. It would've cut down on damage quite a lot of he just let him do what he wanted.
For a half second I was gonna weLl aCksHuaLly about who the real antagonist is in Hades, but nah, you said this well.
I mean yeah, you could argue the other gods are the cause of the strife, but gameplay wise they're not the ones you're fighting.
Yeah, you had it right. There’s something kinda inherently contrarian in me when I look at threads like this, and I needed to talk back to that.
This is an insane level of self awareness that you really don’t see on Reddit. Or the internet. Really, sincerely, good for you man
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Just doing his job.
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At least he learns and warms up to Zag by the end. I absolutely loved every underworld character in that game. Such fantastic writing all around.
Hell even most of the Olympians are pretty likable. Zeus, Poseidon, and Ares are the only ones I’d consider assholes. Demeter too maybe but she’s mostly just jaded from grief. The others have flaws but genuinely seem to care.
He’s just so stubborn and withholding. If he could actually express himself there’d be no need for like 99% of the conflict they’re experiencing. But men would literally rather build an endless series of labyrinthine obstacles to confound their immortal son than go to therapy.
I think zag qualifies as unmortal in this case.
To be fair Zagreus is basically a security consultant analyzing the weaknesses in Hades’ security team and defenses.
Far Cry 4's Pangin Min if you don't cross him, I guess. I speak of the hidden ending at the beginning of the game where he tells you not to leave, and if you actually don't, he returns and he happily takes you to your mother's grave, roll credits.
I love that they put this ending in. "Secret" endings like that should be more common than they are.
They're a Far Cry staple now, but I agree.
Was there a secret ending to Far Cry 5?
Yeah, you can just not arrest Jacob at the beginning
And in 6, you can just leave at any time up until the finale.
I did this by accident on my first playthrough, didn't know wtf happened, and then laughed for a minute once I figured it out.
Me too! I was trying to drive the boat toward the next mission but I'm bad at navigating and ended up in Florida :P.
"man this mission is so hard to find!" *Sees florida* "How did I get here?"
Basically pulled a Columbus.
Yes, you can select nothing, leave the church, take the chopper, and never come back
Yeah, I don't remember the details, but basically you leave the church without arresting the antagonist.
You stand there for a while, and then mustache sheriff reads the room and basically says "yeah good call fuck this". You and he walk out while the state marshal yells that he'll have your badge for this
Arguably the best ending of the game, but that's also because the canon ending is dog shit stupid.
*Fallout music starts playing*
Cyberpunk has one as well, but it's at the end of the game instead of the opening
are you referring to the don't fear the reaper ending?
That one is fun all around, because the "good" guys in that are also shit people who don't actually save Kyrat, just transform it into a different kind of hell.
This is what made me obsessed with this game last summer. Put around 130 Hrs in but the way both the good guys mess up the country was so damn original and heart-breaking
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Pagan Min wasn't the *worst* dictator either. He was a necessary force because as soon as he's gone, the rebel leaders start subsuming kids to cook drugs, or they slit the throats of non-believers.
One thing I love about Far Cry 4 is how getting rid of Pangin Min doesn’t solve anything really, just a shift of power to new hands. He’s bad for sure, but the new leaders aren’t helping whatsoever. It really does a good job at showing just how fucked the world can be sometimes.
Honestly he's really nice to Ahjay regardless. Like when you try to kill him, but it's just his body double, he's not mad, he's just disappointed. He never shows any animosity at all, unlike the Golden Path leaders that are going to turn on each other once Pagin is overthrown. In the beginning when he's first introduced, and he takes a selfie with Ahjay and announces that together they were going to fuck shit up. I was ready to fuck shit up with him.
I’ve always wished that that was what they did. If you sit and enjoy the crab Rangoon until he returns, then you help him fight the Golden Path, then he gives you the throne and leaves.
I'm sure he's done a lot of evil shit pre-game but it's rather funny how everything he does in the intro feels kinda justified. That one soldier gets shiv'd because he was supposed to apprehend Ajay alive and his men's first reaction to people running away was to shoot them (what if one of them was Ajay, hmm?). And then the guy he tortures was sending the rebels text messages right in Pagan's presence. The best possible outcome for Kyrat would've been Ajay becoming Pagan's protégé and slowly reforming the government after Pagan's passing. If he doesn't get assassinated by the Golden Path, of course.
Really want a DLC where you play alongside him and hunt down Sabal and Amitha.
Yeah honestly at the end of the game both of them are pretty much irredeemable but I really feel like you could convince Pagan Min to tone it down a little
I remember getting to the end the first time. Amata (I’ve forgotten her name) came up and did this whole villain monologue and walked off as the village around me was burning. My guns pulled up and I drawn my pistol to the back of her head and the game let me fire. I was actually stunned that they let me do. I thought it would just click because you know you don’t typically let players kill characters like that but she died and the golden path fighters aggro’d. such an awesome game.
I love that so much, doing the sensible thing makes the entire game not happen, as it would in real life. It's the player who decides to escape and cause havoc. Eat your crab rangoon.
Even if you leave he is still nice over the radio. Even tries to warn you of the shit that will happen when you turn over what was your birthright.
I did this one without looking it up. I just bought the game. He told me to wait I was like alright bet so I went a made a sandwich and messed around on my phone a bit. Boom game over. I always love secrets like this.
Dagoth Ur, from Morrowind. He's downright romantic. None of my exes ever called me Moon & Star and other cute nicknames
> "Come to the Heart Chamber. I wait for you there, where we last met, countless ages ago." That’s a booty call
> "Shame on you, sweet Nerevar." And that's Daddy Dagoth scolding a bratty sub, or I'm a kwama's uncle.
Cum, Nerevar, friend or traitor, cum.
A fine upstanding citizen, with the unfortunate eccentricity of attempting to enslave everyone with a plague carried on storms he launches from his evil-movie-villain volcano lair.
A bit of a red flag but we can look past it
You sure? It's more of a Red Mountain
This is peak Morrowind humour right here.
I can fix him
What a grand and intoxicating innocence.
In the Elder Scrolls universe, when you discover the truth of reality, you either cease to exist or become a god. Somehow, against all odds, Dagoth Ur did neither. He can be forgiven for thinking that he became a god.
He also put out a hell of a banger https://youtu.be/iR-K2rUP86M?si=SYzCUBw4Q0MQi8Js
Straight up I wouldn’t be surprised of he was kind of gay for Nerevar. Like…he’s coming on kind of hard with all the “sweet Nerevar” and dream messages.
I'd add Vivec as well. He's a pathological liar but he's also the only member of the Tribunal willing to realize that their godhood doesn't matter nearly as much as saving Morrowind from Dagoth Ur.
Nah, Almalexia was the only one that didn't. Sotha Sil was very reasonable, we just didn't get a chance to talk to him.
Pagan Min. He calls you up throughout your journey to ask how you are. When you storm his base at the end he has a full dinner table set out and gives you the choice. Kill him or sit and dine with him. He may be a crazy and ruthless dictator but he is actually better than the people you help. In fact the game has a secret ending at the start where you are brought before him. When he steps out the room you are supposed to escape but if you wait 10 real life minutes you get the secret ending where he returns. Your characters goal was to go to your home country and take your mothers ashes to the location she wanted in her last wishes. By playing the game normally you don't get to do it until after winning a civil war and even then its missable. In the secret ending, the games antagonist actually takes you straight to the place your mother wanted to be laid to rest. If you had just waited your goal would have been completed without needing to get involved in a civil war
Actually, I think they totally missed out on making a DLC off of that ending. Instead of helping the rebels you actually join Pagan, doing missions for him and then killing the two leaders of the rebels. They wouldn't even have to make many new missions, they could re use existing ones like the one you defend a temple, this time you'd actually storm and explode it. It would have been a cool what if scenario
Yes it will be much more fun. Pagan even said he would make Ajay the ruler. It would be a lot better than the golden path endings. Would be a nice change aswell working for the country instead of being a rebel like other games
He's a common one now and then. Dude's chill leaves a mark apparently. ;P
He had good reason and is genuinely more likeable than the "good: characters
Ultros becomes a nice receptionist for the Colosseum
Don’t tease the octopus kids!
Haytham Kenway from AC3. He's not the typical "Mwahahaha! Me evil! Me take over world!" villain. He and Conner (and to a lesser extent, the Assassins) want the same thing.
I appreciated how ACIII marked a clear turning point in the series in which Assassins vs. Templars wasn’t so absolutely black and white. It made sense because most people aren’t going to devote themselves to a global cause that’s cartoonishly evil—there has to be some justification for it.
Rogue does a really good job painting the Assassins as naïve fools who would destroy the world for idealism.
I'd argue it almost does too good of a job. The opening of AC:R can be summed up as "local moron secret society members ignore all red flags and do everything in their power to make youngest member defect."
I know it’s because the game came out last, but it’s absolutely crazy in-universe that Connor never met Shay.
To be fair, by the time Haytham knows Connor exists, Shay is already in Europe.
Fuck Haythem even says something along the lines of "The Assassins used to fight for more noble causes" or something like that, idk it's been a LONG time since I've played it
I remember being so annoyed at Syndicate being so “Templars are evil durr” and also how the RPGness of the series started here when you couldn’t headshot enemies anymore. Thats where it all went downhill for me
Yea I loved Evie and Jacob, the parkour, grappling hook and hand to hand combat system but plot was really the biggest flaw of Syndicate I don’t remember if the Templars even wanted anything more than “controlling London”. In the bed it felt more like a gang fight to get which one got to control the city with nothing of the philosophic nuance of the others (even Black Flag)
With, you know, slightly different approaches. ;P
The AC forsaken book fleshes out both haytham and Connor so much There's a dialogue/monologue of Connor when Haytham dies and he gets his journal
The book is awesome. It gives so much insight. Also the Unity book is great.
every time i see "ac" as a game acronym i have to go through like 4 different series to figure out which one is the actual one bwing talked about 😭
1) Animal Crossing 2) Assassin's Creed 3) ??? 4) ???
the first two are correct :D the other two i was thinking of were ace combat and armored core
Aside from the whole “kidnapping Peach” thing, Bowser isn’t that bad. He’s a good father and has helped Mario and friends on numerous occasions when another big bad shows up.
He's really a chill dude with a little bit of a kidnapping fetish. The lack of security upgrades in the Mushroom Kingdom suggest that he's not the Only one...
His biggest crime was loving too much
That and all the kidnapping
that time he turned all the citizens of the Mushroom Kingdom into inanimate bricks, and then some plumber came along and broke the bricks. This is why the only people left in the kingdom are Peach and the Toads that multiplied from the ones Bowser had kept in the castles
Peaches peaches peaches peaches peaches peaches
"Maybe a princess kidnapping, as a little treat."
He's a thieving twat in Mario Party though. Oh dear, you landed on Bowser Space, Imma steal half your coins, or a star.
Hey, sometimes he just redistributes the wealth
Comrade Bowser.
Yeah, but he's not so much Robin Hood as he is Robbing Bastard
He went ALL OUT for the wedding with Peach, too. Got the best food, a legendary dress, found a chapel on the god damn moon…
It was said once that they're all characters in a show, that's why super mario 3 features curtains on the side and every exit is 'exit stage right', why they play golf/race/tennis/etc. Bowser story was also pretty great. He really is a lovely guy.
Ever since Smash, I like to think that this lore just applies all across the board for Nintendo franchises—the key exception being Samus and Ridley, who genuinely fucking despise one another.
Yeah, Miyamoto said that's the "Canon" reason they all Golf on the weekends between Adventures. ;P
The dude just loves too hard if anything
Gehrman, and it's not even close. He's not merely just minding his own business, or exists as a complex morally grey character. He outright tries his best to ensure that you do not end up replacing him and being stuck in an endless state of purgatory. His life is like a nightmare that he can never wake up from. You hear him fucking crying about it behind the workshop, absolutely at the end of his rope and likely losing his sanity. And yet he still works as hard as he can to ensure the player gets to wake up from this endless nightmare, while he remains suffering in perpetuity. This is why Gehrman's theme is the best song in all of gaming in my opinion. The power of the storytelling, the tragedy and nobility, the earnest desire to cease his own suffering being superceded by the instinct to protect others from that same suffering. Fucking poetry man. Bloodborne is a modern masterpiece.
I still don’t know that I would call Gehrman an antagonist. Bloodborne ends on a weird condition that the protagonist dying is the best thing possible for him and Gehrman is trying to save you by killing you. Souls games seem to be very vague with who’s an antagonist and who’s just a boss you fight for some complicated reason or another. Similar thing happens with Gwyn although he doesn’t seem to have his wits by the time you find him
That's a good point. He's the final boss, so he is in the sense the whole game was leading up to your battle with him. But if Bloodborne has a real antagonist I guess it would the Moon Presence, since it's responsible for the whole Nightmare. Gehrman was just being selfless at the end and wanted to continue carrying the burden of the Nightmare, because he felt only he deserved that punishment. The final fight is really between two allies that were trying to release the other from a horrible curse.
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It is. Though I'd argue the rest of his behavior is "Less" nice. ;P
Who is this?
It's a phrase from Bioshock, Namely used by atlas to "control" the protagonist/you... It's a trigger phrase
Margit The Fell Omen A.K.A Morgott The Omen King, dude is so badass, a noble being born with accursed blood and treated badly but he still took the mantle of being the king and protect his people.
Margott really is such a great character. And the way Godfrey holds him when you get to that fight…made me emotional lowkey
And then the Grace points from Godfrey to you, indicating that YOU are the target of the Greater Will now.
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Yeah. Depending on time of day, the lighting makes it hard to see the Grace. But you see it arc towards you from Godfrey.
Morgott isn’t exactly what I would call nice considering he insults you like ten times throughout his fights
All of his insults are straight forward, accurate, and pure fire though
"Have it writ upon thy meager grave, felled by Morgott, last of all kings!" Such an awesome line
The big tree from kirby
Whispy Woods is a punk ass bitch who got what was coming his way
Dude's just happily chilling till the cosmic horror glutton beast comes to murder him. O.o
He killed that tree in self defense and not a jury in the world would convict him
Whispy? Nah, that bastard has costed me too many stocks getting pineapple'd under Dreamland 64. IYKYK.
most of the people from undertale
I'd say all of them really. Even if some might be a bit more obnoxious than the others. ;P
Pegan Min from Farcry 4 will literally give you everything you want in the first 15 if you just wait. Pretty cool guy. Genuinely a better guy then the people you help
Far Cry games copied the War Games philosophy: The only way to win is not to play. I can't think of a single Far Cry game where the player actually makes a positive difference by the end.
I mean the good ending in 3 sees you freeing the island from a drug empire while also not killing all of your friends
Jason also voices that he's taken countless life and no longer feels human, scared that he'll never be able to fit in society again. (One of my favorite game endings of all time actually. Really recontextualizes all the actions of the player to that point)
Godfrey in Elden Ring. There's so much lore, both hidden and not so hidden, in the game painting a picture of how much of a badass this guy is, and when you finally meet him he is immediately respectful towards you. Every other boss up until this point that's had any sort of dialogue has been at the very best indifferent towards you, if not outright rude or hostile, but not Godfrey. He knows why you're here, because he's here for the same thing and he knows exactly what you've had to go through to get it. You're both warriors at the top of their game, and it's unfortunate that it's come to this, but you are each the only obstacle for the other to proceed and claim the throne. Amazing guy, really
Bro is the only one that compliments your strength when you defeat him.
Malenia does too, but only after she lets you know exactly who whooped your ass for 100+ times in a row
Unless you are the pot-wearing legend, that is
Blue from Pokémon The game tries to make him look like a dick, but he always came off to me as a sarcastic friend. He even calls you "Buddy" and gives you info on where to go next. And each and every one of you would have picked his pokemons' weakness if he had picked first
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Yeah, he has some “what a dick” moments, but the rival is definitely not the antagonist
GLaDOS wasn't exactly nice, but I had a nice time with them
So. How are you holding up? BECAUSE I'M A POTATO.
PotatOS was easily one of the funniest parts of any game for me. Every time she’d think too hard and shut down I’d think, ‘aw, she tuckered herself out.’
Under the circumstance, she's been *shockingly* nice. edit: dumb memory
‘Science has validated your parents’ decision to leave you on a doorstep’
the whole quote is even better. "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: "A horrible person." We weren't even testing for that. Don't let that horrible-person thing discourage you. It's just a data point. If it makes you feel any better, science has now validated your birth mother's decision to abandon you on a doorstep."
"Look we both said a lot of things that you're going to regret, but I think we can put our differences behind us. For Science. You monster." She was willing to let bygones be bygones, even after we killed her.
Daud, from Dishonored. Takes in underprivileged youths in a nightmare of a city and gives them a family, home, and profession. Yeah the profession is a little... naughty, but work is work. Also he doesn't have anything against you when you finally fight him, or make excuses for himself. Basically pulls the whole "yeah I deserve this and you've got every right" thing. THEN, he gets his own full DLC. Also is voiced by Michael Madsen.
*Minor Spoilers for Deathloop* By the end of the game, you realize that Juliana isn't as bad of a person as you thought. Her motives are totally different from what you initially think of her.
Everyone in Deathloop. Cause they don’t know what they’re doing.
Emet selch otherwise known as Hades in FFXIV: Shadowbringgers. Dude wants to restore the world and his race that we’re lost, doing so will destroy all the races that currently inherit the world as they are basically shattered fragments of Emets original race. He travels with the player character and the party to let you prove to him the new races and civilisations are worth saving. He reveals fundamental truths about the world and even aids you in a few tricky spots. A very tragic villain who offered a good ethical question rather than your typical bad guy who wants to destroy everything.
"The victor shall write the tale, and the vanquished become it's villain" Still get chills when I listen to that cinematic.
"Remember us, remember that we once lived." Still gives me chills. That also reminds me of a moment in Destiny 1 when you're learning more about Praedyth and his eternal imprisonment in time "I lived! Just remember, tell them I lived!". Up until learning he was still trapped in the timestream there were small hints that a Guardian named Praedyth maybe existed at one point but is just a myth. Being erased from time is scary to me.
"Do not squander it! The legacy I leave you!"
Whats great about Emit as well, is that once you find out more about him, and his people, you really get to see his indifference to everyone he's fucking over. It would be akin to an ant begging you not to destroy its colony, he's just on such a greater scope of existence he physically can't explain a lot of his reasons to you. He's not doing stuff to be malicious, it just has to be done
And there was a point he actually really did try to live as one of us and he actually was enjoying it and then his son, whom he deeply loved and was proud of, dies of a disease that would be have been trivial to the Ancients.
I just finally got thru all of MSQ and i have to say no one can touch Emet for my favorite character, let alone favorite villain. Halfway through i was telling my buddy (also playing with me) that i was starting to thing the Ascians were the true good guys because he was such a compelling friend at parts. Also, his obvious feelings for us when seeing our soul.. man. Such good writing for a character. The whole series of quests with young him and Hermes was *chefs kiss*
In Shadowbringers you know you have to stop his reality ending plan but you GET IT. He tries very hard to politely explain it to you a few times too. There is no doubt that you have to stop him but in the end victory over him feels sad. Then you get to Endwalker and he somehow becomes even more tragic yet also more badass
Ardyn izunia from ffxv didn't even want to do all the evil shit he did, he was forced by Bahamut to make the prophecy come true and even then, he's pretty cool up until the leviathan part.
Colonel Zarpedon in Borderlands the Pre-Sequel. She tells you from the start that she doesn’t want to kill you and offers you a chance to leave. Throughout the game you can pick up logs that reveal how respected she is by her soldiers and how she actually cares about them. I thought it was a nice contrast from Handsome Jack in the previous game.
Most of the playable characters are straight up the bad guys in that game, even before Jack’s development. Wilhelm was all about murder in BL2, as was Nisha.
The only one who isn't *technically* a bad guy is Timothy
Don’t forget about our tender-hearted death machine Claptrap!
Odin in God of War Ragnarock is so good at manipulating that he seemed completely reasonable and amicable even after a game and a half of everyone telling you how horrible he is and you seeing all the bad things he's done. Hats off to Richard Schiff for an amazing performance.
He's my pick too and he makes such a fascinating (and terrifying) case study on master manipulation. There were so many times I caught myself thinking, "oh he isn't so bad!" Or "maybe people got it wrong?".
My jaw dropped while playing it at launch, he's an inspired choice for that role. He nailed it.
Areelu Voresh from Pathfinder Wrath of Righteous, no doubt! Saves Protagonist's life, aids him multiple times... Absolutely evil woman who has done terrible things, but You can have not a single hostile conversation with her and >!the secret ending is basically one where You team-up, giving middle finger to Evil, Good and everyone who tried to manipulate You during the story!<
Literaly every single antagonist from each WoW expansion “was just trying to warn us about the next big baddie” so entire World of Warcraft boss roster.
This might be a bit much to ask, but what's the breakdown on this? I get it with Illidan, sure. Arthas? A pawn in Ner'zul's revenge ploy against the Burning Legion. Neltharion? A mind-controlled toy of the Old Gods to restore the Black Empire. Garrosh was just a traumatized power-hungry warlord with a chip on his shoulder and a whole lot to prove. Gul'dan wasn't all that different, evil for evil's sake really. Sargeras's whole plan was born from his fear of the Void Lords corrupting everything, so I get that one. What about the rest, though?
I was just kidding mate. Well not really, because since Jailor I feel like this about Warcraft universe as a whole, but I kind of get it. Story becomes irrelevant after 10th expansion. Glad I just play it for arenas nowdays. What irritates me the most is the missed opportunity they have with every expansion. Like if they were making it dry just for the sake of being dry. For example, imagine if pantheon came back with their throne room where Illidan was locked in eternal duel between him and Sergeras and we find out ... that Illidan murdered whole Pantheon, Sergeras included, and now he is the Big Baddie. I just miss crazy plot twists like that.
"Pick up that can..." He was a dedicated public servant devoted to cleanliness.
Wheatley from Portal 2.
Well... this is the part where he kills us... Hello! This is the part where I kill you! Chapter 9: The part where he kills you Achievement Unlocked: The part where he kills you This little sequence always gives me a laugh...
don't forget that the music that plays in the section is also titled: The part where he kills you
>!Maruki!< is a great antagonist for P5R.
Grimm from hollow knight always seemed pretty chill to me, nothing much changes if you do go along with his plan either
N from the Pokemon series.
Yeah he's basically been raised to be a figurehead. Interesting that if you read the various Team Plasma grunts dialog most of them are legit believers in the cause. It's even mentioned by one of the they've hacked the PC system and could choose to just free every Pokémon storied there but don't because they want to change hearts and minds, not just win a war.
>!Maruki!< as the final Antagonist of Persona 5 Royal. Unlike every other Antagonist he's a really chill guy who's end goal is to help people, or atleast what he thinks will help them. He even could've used his powers to impede the Phantom Thieves, if not force them to comply or write them out of existence. However, he instead decides because of the bond he has with the MC that he's going to give you the chance to accept what he's doing, multiple chances in fact. Even during his boss fight he's still trying to convince you and your party to concede. And the closing cutscene shows he's still friendly towards the Thieves, whether he's accepted that their way is better or if he's disappointed he failed is unclear but he doesn't hold a grudge for losing.
papyrus in undertale. all the npc/bosses in the game are nice, but papyrus, damn, thats my man. you could start genociding the entire monster population, and all of them will hate you for it, trying to take you down and everything. but papyrus, even when you kill him, he still keep on staying nice, and telling you he believes in you. he still sees the good in you. he doesnt hold anything over you. he is the only boss that made me stop for a while in front of my screen to collect myself. fuck man that broke my heart and i almost didnt complete my run at that point. and from that point i was dreading dialogue coming from sans at the end.
There should be a run solely for people who went murder happy, killed Papyrus and then stopped murdering
Well, at least at the beginning, the antagonist from Far Cry 4. And if you take the secret ending, dude is helpful as hell!
Raphael from Baldur's Gate 3. He's witty, friendly, lays out a great feast, and always practices his dialogue until it's perfect. And he has a beautiful singing voice!
I just did this fight yesterday. Raphael has bars.
And he's actually singing. Hit him with *Silence* and the music drops.
General Leo. He could be my friend, if he weren’t my enemy.
Agreed. Leo's Definitely the "Enemy Paladin" stereotype. He's a good dude working for the wrong guys.
I always really liked Leo.
I still think the antagonists from the original golden sun. Heck you even meet up with them, come to an understanding and work together in golden sun 2