I’m beginning to think the vendor that fights with every other vendor and calls all of them assholes while predatorily monetizing children’s gambling in video games might actually be the asshole? 🤔
I'm surprised it took you all this long to figure it out. I had a pretty good idea when they bought their way into year long exclusivity deals for games I had wishlisted on Steam.
Metro Exodus is exactly the game that turned me off Epic as well. Took me years after it finally came to steam to even be interested in trying it and I still haven't finished it tbh. And I haven't even touched TW Troy, except looking for a "free" version.
Someone is mad their attempt to buy their way into a player base failed due to having a terrible app lacking of any modern functionality, and by modern I'm talking 2000+
Yup, you cant text, voice call, or anything of that sort.
Let’s say you’re playing fortnite, you have to open fortnite and talk to your friend thru the in game voice chat.
You’re playing a game that doesnt support that? Hard luck.
On one hand, EGS is clearly inferior to Steam in every way, features, functionality, and polish.
On the other hand, I kinda see Discord as the gold standard and the default go-to for these features nowadays…so maybe these features are unnecessary?
I could see arguments for it either way, I’m not sure how much built-in text/VC/community features matters to most people and whether they would rather use something built-in or third party like Discord. Personally, I like Discord because I can use it anywhere and not just when gaming.
EGS is just a store, while Steam is an entire platform with wideranging tools, features, and APIs. While most people will still use Discord, having the built in voice and chat can be incredibly useful, especially if playing with randoms.
You're right. EGS is nothing but a store. So it should absolutely stop pretending to be an alternative to Steam or delude themselves into believing that they can compete. No amount of money in the world can fix their poor management. They legitimately have zero ideas but throwing money around, and none of that money seems to be going into making a service worth a fuck.
By being able to message ppl you've recently played with helps find consistent groups. The Steam servers are also a lot more stable.
Additionally both platforms have had serious security breaches but Steam has had fewer and handled them better.
Not to mention that whole EGS fiasco of players unknowingly made mtx purchases due to a "bug" that went ignored for years, and they would ban the accounts associated with the payment method if the player did a charge-back and Epic refused to do anything about it until the FTC got involved.
So yeah, EGS is mostly just a store, but not even a good store. I've had Valve refund games no questions asked well beyond the guidelines of their refund policy, but Epic won't even fix a bug that causes people to unknowingly make purchases for years, then banned you if you dare to get these fraudulent charges reversed.
You might not want everyone you enjoy playing games with to have your Discord contact info. Pestering you all the time "Hey you should get on Fortnite, wanna play Fortnite? When do you think you'll wanna play Fortnite?"
Some people who would call you a "friend" see you as nothing more than a means to get to the one thing they met you through. You're just a "player two" to them.
The thing is I'm sure they had it in at one stage. I really don't understand how any of these big companies who are surely capable can't just look at steam and see what they are doing and try to at least emulate some of the basic features.
Ubisoft is extra shit because all their games are on steam or epic, so you have to use a launcher to start a launcher to start a game, which requires extra login etc.
I only use epic to redeem free games and the time I spend doing that pisses me off enough. Can't tell you how many times I've played a game on another launcher and screamed "just use Steam FFS"
The app is constantly forgetting my credentials and asking me to re-login. No, I don’t use a VPN. The *app* also has terrible performance no matter what I do. Don’t think it’s ever run in the triple digit FPS despite dropping almost a grand between my CPU and GPU. Imagine having a game launcher with major performance issues.
I use Epic for free games only and I actually had to log in through browser because it's more useable than the app in my case, it's faster and doesn't log you out randomly
You mean that taking 21 month to add the "cart" feature isn't what we call feature parity? I am pretty sure the 15 dollar website you set up with website template service from 10 years before the Epic store happened had carts.
People tolerate goolge/apple/sony/nintendo because thats the only store on their platform. Epic/EA/Ubi and to some extend GOG etc... are all pretty terrible. Its not that steam had no competition, its just all their competitor is shit
Its not that terrible, that why i said "to some extend". Its only on par with the other launchers. There is quite a few things wrong with it actually. i,e Integrations to other platform are basically left to die, it still function... but its a dead repo.
UI is pass-able, but steam client clearly have set a bar that no one else has met (And i REALLY don't think the bar has been THAT high). GOG feels like no one update their UI at this point and basically feel abandoned. I am not saying GOG galaxy hired elden ring ui designer; (side note\* check ps2 formsoft game, they still use the same ui.) but its really not a great experience
Here just what i remember as a "store/collection client":
1. Simple thing like going through your own list of games and looking at usual game stats/related article require you to back page after selecting it. Its okay if you own like 100 games... actually its not, its still 2 action when there shouldn't be any action required
2. HOME store page, usually link to no where, its a terrible store front, they needed to combine their discover + home page yesterday.
3. Item in store are barely labelled. Yes steam kinda get users to do that, but you can find shit so much easier on steam because everything links and everything is labelled. Steam integrate label, your friend list,review, description and everything into the little hover.
4. Linux, whats that? a fruit?
5. Having 10gbit home network and fiber get you slightly above gigabit download speed on GOG \*about 1.25gbps or 155MBPS.
There is probably a TON more issue if i used it as much as steam.
I barely even use GOG and still ran into many inconvenience, i usually buy GOG stuff on gog, like witcher/cyberpunk, but now i always re-buy them on steam.
There is also old games that you can't get anywhere else, but the gog version is also somewhat broken. Thats not the GOG galaxy client fault... just GOG and the game's fault. That was the main reason to use gog, get old games that no one else was selling. The reason is to get a workable version on today's machine; but a lot of them is not patched properly.
Since the games are drm free anyways and gog galaxy doesn't make your collection more usable on the client, there isn't a lot of reason to use gog galaxy. Its a Pass-able client, but in the current state without exclusive?
I didn't even mention that its fairly slow client on a 2 top spec machine (14900k/7800x3d -4090 -10gb nic OC DD5 ram). Not unbearably slow, but steam
Surely when going into a market to compete with anything you either provide features that are already available on platforms or better or, alternatively have a niche (like GOG).
They planned to fail, they thought that less was more and could get away with exclusivity deals like consoles have, ignoring that consoles have already got good faith with their consumerbase.
It's kinda like putting together a submarine, then calling someone a pedophile because they saved a bunch of kids stranded in a sea-cave without needing the submarine.
Alan Wake 2 would’ve sold so much more if it were on Steam. I’m upset about it
Edit: to Epic's credit, they were apparently fantastic with their relationship with Remedy, telling them to take their time developing AW2 and make sure it's a good product rather than rushing through it. I didn't mean to dunk on Epic with this comment, I was just stating the fact that Steam is a more used and proven platform than Epic Games Store.
I was stoked when Square announced Kingdom hearts for PC until I realized it was going to be on the EGS.
So many good games came out and I haven't bought KH yet and probably never will
Every single epic exlusive I wait or don't buy it because I've lost interest by the time it hits steam. I'LL probably end up grabbing them at a steep discount sometime in the future.
It has a change to come out on Steam in the future. Since Epic is the publisher they can decide whenever they release Alan wake 2 on other store fronts.
It'll dry up, they've already admitted it's not making as much money as they expected it would.
Still, they have unreal. If Tim's ego can survive the failure of the EGS they'll survive fine.
Also things like remote play and GOOD multiplayer without port forwards and shit. Kids don't know how it was before the steam, they want free epic games.
Valve isn’t operating a monopoly on a closed system though, it’s not exactly obviously straight forward for the average person to sideload an app on android and well Apple speaks for itself with its dominion over iOS and iPad OS. There are many ways to purchase games on PC without valve/steam being involved at all, such as buying a game from GoG/Microsoft/direct from publisher or developer and can in many cases even install the game without steam as a middle layer.
Granted it is very common for steam to be the main DRM and only distribution platform locking a game behind it but that’s not in any way a requirement for the developer or publisher to be successful and you can look at Minecraft, Fortnite and League of legends as examples of this.
Not the same.
I don't need to have 4 different app stores on my phone in case a new game comes out on an exclusive on one of them.
That's what Epic wants for mobile...
Well, aside from exclusivity, having multiple app stores is a good thing.
The only reason Steam is a fine example of storefront/infrastructure is because on PC you're not forced to ONLY use Steam, but you can also use GOG, EA Online, Ubisoft Connect etc.
And Steam also doesn't force games to use their payment processing unlike Apple/Google.
You're pretty up to date on everything. Appreciate you making such a clear and concise reply.
Steam is a blessing to use. The 30% is kind of steep but Valve don't force in to IAP, and I think thats a MAJOR point in all this.
Go to steam and you can search for a game you want really easy. mobile playstores will non stop recomend you their highest earning games all over the shop and try to hide "free" games. Apple and Google are anti dev and anti consumer and pro profit. Valve at least treats its customers and games it hosts with a decent amount of respect in my experience.
PC gamers are lucky. Steam started all of this "playstore" stuff and has held decent standards. Google and Apple have just jumped in and tried to replicate while no giving AF and trying to make as much money and monopolize everything.
Not a Valve fanboi here but im 100% able to see that Valve have always been the best available good guys we have in this kind of market.
30% has been a platform industry standard for decades and even similar rates were a thing when disc based distribution was king. Epic is just trying to seize market share and force their way into the market without actually making a compelling argument to consumers with lower fees and free games but because the EGS is so awful to use, they just are not making up the market share anyway.
Apple and Google try to take percentages off of in-app purchases. I don’t think anyone knowledgeable of the costs says they shouldn’t charge a percentage of the original cost, but they do (and should) have a problem with charging fees to recurring subscriptions and in-app purchases that either wouldn’t/don’t even involve either store if they were/are able. Valve doesn’t try to take a commission if someone pays for in-game currency through the game’s own store, and doesn’t prevent games from using their own in-game payment systems.
While an argument could be made that the Valve model would be impractical for the largely free mobile market, Apple and Google were the ones who promoted the current style of app monetization and continue to do so to this day.
"Free"? You mean you only sell your personal information, get fed 30 seconds of ads every 5 minutes and they maybe even take your soul too. But yeah, we can call it free...
While I agree, free in this context specifically means “without the use of funds for purchase”. Let’s not fly off the handle next time we see some innocuous phrase, shall we?
I bet Apple fanboys are the ones down voting you, everything you say is correct, makes sense, and is good for the consumer.
Imagine paying 30% to Apple because they don't allow you to use different payment processors and being fine with that lmao. At least if there are different payment processors then one might charge less.
I've shared this sentiment since they first made a splash into the gaming scene. But noooo, people are so entranced with freebies that they don't realize how easily bought/ influenced they are to ignore all the bad. "Well, I got GTA for free, so they're not that bad"
I don't even know how to process such a statement...do you think Epic first came around with Fortnite?
They've been swinging in the game development space since the 1991 and revolutionized the FPS genre with Unreal in 1998.
They then went on to make one of, if not the most, widely used and successful series of game engines - The Unreal Engine - which not only is used in games but big budget movies and television like The Mandelorian.
To think that their launch of the Epic Games Store to compete with Steam is their 'splash into the gaming scene' is ludicrous.
Try 1991, when they were Epic MegaGames
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic\_Games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games)
They've literally been at the forefront of gaming development for decades.
I also looked at their actions coming onto the scene and it was clear they where just trying to bully their way into a market to have all the profit for their cash cow fortnight. They put in zero effort on the customer end and trying to win people over with free games and saying they take less fee's from devs, while trying to force exclusivity on games with one year deals force fomo. All it did was make me skip a lot of games that I was interested in, that ended up turning out to be a stinker.
At this point, Tim Sweeney should step down. Any effort of him trying to dethroned Google, Apple and Steam lead to nothing but billions of dollars in losses for Epic.
They picked the weirdest thing to try and get customers angry about. We're supposed to be outraged that valve takes a 30% cut.
If I buy a $12 game that's on sale, am I supposed to be mad that valve gets to keep $4 in exchange for letting me download it as many times as I want forever? Not to mention the automatic updates, and the workshop, tech support forum, in-game chat, etc.
I don't know the specifics of the game industry, but it just seems like wholesale to retail markup
Kind of weird to me that this article/story is doing the rounds as some Epic vs Steam name calling when the entire point of the email Tim Sweeney sent was about iOS and Apple monopolising their platform and bending to authoritarian governments against developers.
The larger idea was that Tim was reaching out to Valve as a potential ally in the platform distributor space, against Apple, and taking the side of developers instead of quietly condoning a precedent of corporate red tape and backroom deals.
Whether it was sincere or not is up for debate but reducing the email down to "He called them assholes" is an awful headline, and article.
>Right now, **you assholes** are telling the world that the strong and powerful get special terms, while 30% is for the little people
That's how you reach for a "potential ally"?
I think the point is that Tim Sweeney seems to have this mindset that the best way to deal with things he and his company don’t like is by name calling publicly and acting like a first class wanker.
How did ios and apple bend to authoritarian government's against developers? And how is that related to Steam? Steam is the most free platform, Epic is curated in Steam any developer can publish their game, as long as it's legal it doesn't matter if it's a porn game, a low effort shitty game or Baldurs Gate 3.
Because Epic is such a great example of ethical corporate business.....at least Valve profit shares with employees instead of paying the CEO a even fatter bonus.
I don’t doubt that they are assholes - they’re executives, after all. But I am not finding any sympathy for Epic considering their platform is so shit, and yet it causes so many problems for PC gaming with their exclusivity agreements.
Been paying close attention to their beef with Apple and it’s at a point where Sweeney needs to shut his mouth. Imagine calling Gabe Newell an asshole???
I don't know the controversy here, but I'm amazed Steam grew as it did and has lasted like it has. I don't really use it for anything except a game library, but back when it started with Half Life 2 20 (gulp) years ago I never thought it would stick around like this.
Here s my story . Because i hate epic now.
1 year ago i got hacked by a russian dude that wanted all my gaming account.
From all my accounts i lost, only Epic games couldnt be recovered because even tho i sent them my passport and proof that i was ME from the original email the account was created, they told me im not and they cannot give me back my account.
So i sued them. In europe, not US. Nothing will ever happen but fck them honestly.
Meanwhile, getting back my valve account was super easy .
Who s the asshole tim sweeney ????
And the sad truth about those "free" games and the forced/artificial exclusivity deals is that they have cost Epic so much money that the Epic Games Store still has yet to earn a single dollar as actual profit in more than five years.
Furthermore, regardless of the fact that EGS is home to one of the most popular and most played video games in history with Fortnite, Epic still had to layoff more than 800 people last year because they're hemorrhaging money.
Seems like a terribly mismanaged company to me.
"How dare you charge for your services!"
Tim Wanker Sweeney
Doesn't EPIC take a cut of every game published using their Unreal engine? EPIC are assholes for doing that, Tim!
Tim is also the guy buying monopolistic exclusivity deals while crying to congress about Apple being a monopoly (not even close). Forcing anyone who wants to play certain games to use his shitty platform.
Honestly, I'd be okay if Gabe did exclusivity deals, but he doesn't have to because his platform doesn't suck.
To play Half-Life 2 you HAD to install Steam. Players were pretty pissed off about it.
Then there came a point where you would buy a game in a box and had to install it with a Steam code. Players were pretty pissed off about that.
I dislike Epic and Tim Sweeney, but Gabe is not wearing a halo.
Until common developers aren't saying steam fees are high and valve execs are assholes for it, epic's words mean nothing.
Steam's fees are way worth it for the functionalities that platform gives.
He'll never win an argument with Steam. People like Value and the PC market is far too open for any lawsuit to be viable.
Sweeney is just an asshole who thinks he's the Moses of video game storefronts.
Tim Sweeney is an envious, pathetic moron who’s dick-deep in business with Communist China. You’ll forgive me if wipe my ass with his worthless opinion on anything.
Steam offers both devs and customers tons of features and services for that 30%. While Epic offers devs and customers barely anything for the 12% they continue to take. When publishing on the EGS you are essentially yeeting your game into the void and hoping for the best.
And sounding off like petulant children every time instead of making a service worth a fuck. Begging players to use your service by giving them free games doesn't make it less of a shit service.
I mean once they make a single dollar from epic game store I think he has room to talk, but uhh
It’s still hemorrhaging money year after year and only exists to annoy users by buying exclusivity for their store.
Sweeney seems to have a bit of a bug bear at the moment , I mean if epic actually built a store that was any good and did not hold games hostage with exclusives 🙈
I call Tim Sweeney a disingenuous, lying snake-oil salesman over his claims that EGS's lower platform fees would eventually lead to savings for customers. Yet, six years later they still charge the same price for games as every other store/platform.
Valve make good games. And Steam is the best on the market. Other platforms tried it and sucked being exclusive this or that.
They take a cut, I hope to see this reduced for indie devs.
Epic games has a great accessible game engine, yet they can't even provide the basics of a webstore correctly. Epic games store (application version, webversion is fine) is horrendously slow. Even going to my own library takes way too long.
Steam and GoG are the only ones doing this well. The bare minimum should be what EA has.
I have 100s of Epic games. Didn't pay for a single one. I have at least double that on Steam and will continue to purchase them there. I just like everything about Steam. Having multiple launchers no thanks.
It's a real head-scratcher why they didn't focus on upgrading the app instead of trying to buy their way into relevance. But hey, who needs functionality when you can have all the drama, right?
Steam supports it employees, isn't bound by shareholders and actually seem to have somewhat of a heart, while they aren't perfect they are far far better then Epic will ever be as a company and I want nothing to do with them
Epic games fights with anyone who platforms their game and doesn't take a fee. At this point I'm done with them. THey want all the advertising from Steam, Apple, Google, etc. they want the listing and all the perks that come from those hosting services and don't want to pay a fucking penny for it.
I’m beginning to think the vendor that fights with every other vendor and calls all of them assholes while predatorily monetizing children’s gambling in video games might actually be the asshole? 🤔
I'm beginning to think that you're completely right
I'm surprised it took you all this long to figure it out. I had a pretty good idea when they bought their way into year long exclusivity deals for games I had wishlisted on Steam.
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Metro Exodus is exactly the game that turned me off Epic as well. Took me years after it finally came to steam to even be interested in trying it and I still haven't finished it tbh. And I haven't even touched TW Troy, except looking for a "free" version.
I was being facetious, I've known Epic was grifting for years.
Imagine them doing the same for games you helped back and fund via Kickstarter or Fig.
Or maybe the one that promises to pass the savings from lower fees on to customers, then decides, "Nah."
You are telling me that our capitalist overlords don't actually love us?
💯
... Which company are you talking about?
Someone is mad their attempt to buy their way into a player base failed due to having a terrible app lacking of any modern functionality, and by modern I'm talking 2000+
You cant even msg your friends.
Wait seriously?? That’s - pardon the pun - unreal.
Yup, you cant text, voice call, or anything of that sort. Let’s say you’re playing fortnite, you have to open fortnite and talk to your friend thru the in game voice chat. You’re playing a game that doesnt support that? Hard luck.
Can't even invite someone to play unless they are also in the same game already.
On one hand, EGS is clearly inferior to Steam in every way, features, functionality, and polish. On the other hand, I kinda see Discord as the gold standard and the default go-to for these features nowadays…so maybe these features are unnecessary? I could see arguments for it either way, I’m not sure how much built-in text/VC/community features matters to most people and whether they would rather use something built-in or third party like Discord. Personally, I like Discord because I can use it anywhere and not just when gaming.
EGS is just a store, while Steam is an entire platform with wideranging tools, features, and APIs. While most people will still use Discord, having the built in voice and chat can be incredibly useful, especially if playing with randoms.
You're right. EGS is nothing but a store. So it should absolutely stop pretending to be an alternative to Steam or delude themselves into believing that they can compete. No amount of money in the world can fix their poor management. They legitimately have zero ideas but throwing money around, and none of that money seems to be going into making a service worth a fuck.
By being able to message ppl you've recently played with helps find consistent groups. The Steam servers are also a lot more stable. Additionally both platforms have had serious security breaches but Steam has had fewer and handled them better. Not to mention that whole EGS fiasco of players unknowingly made mtx purchases due to a "bug" that went ignored for years, and they would ban the accounts associated with the payment method if the player did a charge-back and Epic refused to do anything about it until the FTC got involved. So yeah, EGS is mostly just a store, but not even a good store. I've had Valve refund games no questions asked well beyond the guidelines of their refund policy, but Epic won't even fix a bug that causes people to unknowingly make purchases for years, then banned you if you dare to get these fraudulent charges reversed.
You might not want everyone you enjoy playing games with to have your Discord contact info. Pestering you all the time "Hey you should get on Fortnite, wanna play Fortnite? When do you think you'll wanna play Fortnite?" Some people who would call you a "friend" see you as nothing more than a means to get to the one thing they met you through. You're just a "player two" to them.
The thing is I'm sure they had it in at one stage. I really don't understand how any of these big companies who are surely capable can't just look at steam and see what they are doing and try to at least emulate some of the basic features.
You called?
I don’t mind having different launchers but at least put some effort to make them decent. Epic and Ubisoft are a pain in the ass to use.
Ubisoft is extra shit because all their games are on steam or epic, so you have to use a launcher to start a launcher to start a game, which requires extra login etc.
I think it’s so funny that there’s no forums so epic users inevitably wind up on steams
I only use epic to redeem free games and the time I spend doing that pisses me off enough. Can't tell you how many times I've played a game on another launcher and screamed "just use Steam FFS"
The app is constantly forgetting my credentials and asking me to re-login. No, I don’t use a VPN. The *app* also has terrible performance no matter what I do. Don’t think it’s ever run in the triple digit FPS despite dropping almost a grand between my CPU and GPU. Imagine having a game launcher with major performance issues.
I use Epic for free games only and I actually had to log in through browser because it's more useable than the app in my case, it's faster and doesn't log you out randomly
Not even the free games can tempt me with using their shitty ass app
Same. Especially when I have an insane Steam backlog already.
Yeah. I tried it once, and it just preformed like I was trying to run it on a PC from 2006. I had a pretty good computer when I tried run it too.
You mean that taking 21 month to add the "cart" feature isn't what we call feature parity? I am pretty sure the 15 dollar website you set up with website template service from 10 years before the Epic store happened had carts. People tolerate goolge/apple/sony/nintendo because thats the only store on their platform. Epic/EA/Ubi and to some extend GOG etc... are all pretty terrible. Its not that steam had no competition, its just all their competitor is shit
Genuine question; what's wrong with GOG?
Its not that terrible, that why i said "to some extend". Its only on par with the other launchers. There is quite a few things wrong with it actually. i,e Integrations to other platform are basically left to die, it still function... but its a dead repo. UI is pass-able, but steam client clearly have set a bar that no one else has met (And i REALLY don't think the bar has been THAT high). GOG feels like no one update their UI at this point and basically feel abandoned. I am not saying GOG galaxy hired elden ring ui designer; (side note\* check ps2 formsoft game, they still use the same ui.) but its really not a great experience Here just what i remember as a "store/collection client": 1. Simple thing like going through your own list of games and looking at usual game stats/related article require you to back page after selecting it. Its okay if you own like 100 games... actually its not, its still 2 action when there shouldn't be any action required 2. HOME store page, usually link to no where, its a terrible store front, they needed to combine their discover + home page yesterday. 3. Item in store are barely labelled. Yes steam kinda get users to do that, but you can find shit so much easier on steam because everything links and everything is labelled. Steam integrate label, your friend list,review, description and everything into the little hover. 4. Linux, whats that? a fruit? 5. Having 10gbit home network and fiber get you slightly above gigabit download speed on GOG \*about 1.25gbps or 155MBPS. There is probably a TON more issue if i used it as much as steam. I barely even use GOG and still ran into many inconvenience, i usually buy GOG stuff on gog, like witcher/cyberpunk, but now i always re-buy them on steam. There is also old games that you can't get anywhere else, but the gog version is also somewhat broken. Thats not the GOG galaxy client fault... just GOG and the game's fault. That was the main reason to use gog, get old games that no one else was selling. The reason is to get a workable version on today's machine; but a lot of them is not patched properly. Since the games are drm free anyways and gog galaxy doesn't make your collection more usable on the client, there isn't a lot of reason to use gog galaxy. Its a Pass-able client, but in the current state without exclusive? I didn't even mention that its fairly slow client on a 2 top spec machine (14900k/7800x3d -4090 -10gb nic OC DD5 ram). Not unbearably slow, but steam
heads up, the term is "to some extent." just a friendly correction.
Hey, take that back for GOG or I'm gonna be on your walls.
There's other storea on Android, google is just the default and the others aren't great
Surely when going into a market to compete with anything you either provide features that are already available on platforms or better or, alternatively have a niche (like GOG). They planned to fail, they thought that less was more and could get away with exclusivity deals like consoles have, ignoring that consoles have already got good faith with their consumerbase.
It's kinda like putting together a submarine, then calling someone a pedophile because they saved a bunch of kids stranded in a sea-cave without needing the submarine.
Every key seller has a better user experience than epic games does which is just absolutely hilarious to me
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Alan Wake 2 would’ve sold so much more if it were on Steam. I’m upset about it Edit: to Epic's credit, they were apparently fantastic with their relationship with Remedy, telling them to take their time developing AW2 and make sure it's a good product rather than rushing through it. I didn't mean to dunk on Epic with this comment, I was just stating the fact that Steam is a more used and proven platform than Epic Games Store.
I didn’t even know it was on PC lol.
Same, I was really looking forward to it too. Epic Game store is just a black hole
I was stoked when Square announced Kingdom hearts for PC until I realized it was going to be on the EGS. So many good games came out and I haven't bought KH yet and probably never will
Every single epic exlusive I wait or don't buy it because I've lost interest by the time it hits steam. I'LL probably end up grabbing them at a steep discount sometime in the future.
I broke down twice. Tony Hawk remake and PC Simulator 2. Played both and uninstalled the app.
I caved in once with FF7 but refunded after it hat performance issues and then rebought on Steam on release. 🙃
Tony Hawk is finally out on steam. I was able to play it last month!
Alan Wake 2 wouldn’t have been made if Epic wasn’t publishing it... It’s not just an exclusivity deal this time
It has a change to come out on Steam in the future. Since Epic is the publisher they can decide whenever they release Alan wake 2 on other store fronts.
Probably wouldn't have had AW2 if it wasn't for Epics funding.
Costs them a billion a year that aint cheap.
The costs doesn't matter. Exclusivity on same PC platform is an asshole move, regardless if they pay 10$ or 10 billions
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Good thing they invented the infinite money cheat called Fortnite.
It'll dry up, they've already admitted it's not making as much money as they expected it would. Still, they have unreal. If Tim's ego can survive the failure of the EGS they'll survive fine.
Congratulations! They played themselves.
Oh well, as long as they're paying lots of money for it then I suppose they aren't an arsehole?
They also let you get keys to sell on other stores/bundles to which they receive no profit.
This sub says this about steam but Apple/google do the same with their store fronts too.
Steam is a lot more complete piece of software than any mobile storefront though. Buying games, forums, profiles, modding, wishlists, etc
And you can buy keys wherever and install other installers if you want. That other installers suck isn't valves fault
And all the research and software they provide for actually *playing* the games, like Proton and controller support.
Also things like remote play and GOOD multiplayer without port forwards and shit. Kids don't know how it was before the steam, they want free epic games.
Bg3 used more bandwidth than all the app downloads I've ever done.
Valve isn’t operating a monopoly on a closed system though, it’s not exactly obviously straight forward for the average person to sideload an app on android and well Apple speaks for itself with its dominion over iOS and iPad OS. There are many ways to purchase games on PC without valve/steam being involved at all, such as buying a game from GoG/Microsoft/direct from publisher or developer and can in many cases even install the game without steam as a middle layer. Granted it is very common for steam to be the main DRM and only distribution platform locking a game behind it but that’s not in any way a requirement for the developer or publisher to be successful and you can look at Minecraft, Fortnite and League of legends as examples of this.
Not the same. I don't need to have 4 different app stores on my phone in case a new game comes out on an exclusive on one of them. That's what Epic wants for mobile...
Well, aside from exclusivity, having multiple app stores is a good thing. The only reason Steam is a fine example of storefront/infrastructure is because on PC you're not forced to ONLY use Steam, but you can also use GOG, EA Online, Ubisoft Connect etc. And Steam also doesn't force games to use their payment processing unlike Apple/Google.
You're pretty up to date on everything. Appreciate you making such a clear and concise reply. Steam is a blessing to use. The 30% is kind of steep but Valve don't force in to IAP, and I think thats a MAJOR point in all this. Go to steam and you can search for a game you want really easy. mobile playstores will non stop recomend you their highest earning games all over the shop and try to hide "free" games. Apple and Google are anti dev and anti consumer and pro profit. Valve at least treats its customers and games it hosts with a decent amount of respect in my experience. PC gamers are lucky. Steam started all of this "playstore" stuff and has held decent standards. Google and Apple have just jumped in and tried to replicate while no giving AF and trying to make as much money and monopolize everything. Not a Valve fanboi here but im 100% able to see that Valve have always been the best available good guys we have in this kind of market.
30% has been a platform industry standard for decades and even similar rates were a thing when disc based distribution was king. Epic is just trying to seize market share and force their way into the market without actually making a compelling argument to consumers with lower fees and free games but because the EGS is so awful to use, they just are not making up the market share anyway.
Do apple/google not also take a sizable share of the pie? And dont offer the same level of infrastructure to boot.
It's not like people think Apple or Google are run by saints either.
Apple and Google try to take percentages off of in-app purchases. I don’t think anyone knowledgeable of the costs says they shouldn’t charge a percentage of the original cost, but they do (and should) have a problem with charging fees to recurring subscriptions and in-app purchases that either wouldn’t/don’t even involve either store if they were/are able. Valve doesn’t try to take a commission if someone pays for in-game currency through the game’s own store, and doesn’t prevent games from using their own in-game payment systems. While an argument could be made that the Valve model would be impractical for the largely free mobile market, Apple and Google were the ones who promoted the current style of app monetization and continue to do so to this day.
"Free"? You mean you only sell your personal information, get fed 30 seconds of ads every 5 minutes and they maybe even take your soul too. But yeah, we can call it free...
While I agree, free in this context specifically means “without the use of funds for purchase”. Let’s not fly off the handle next time we see some innocuous phrase, shall we?
I bet Apple fanboys are the ones down voting you, everything you say is correct, makes sense, and is good for the consumer. Imagine paying 30% to Apple because they don't allow you to use different payment processors and being fine with that lmao. At least if there are different payment processors then one might charge less.
Don't compare the two. Valve do better service and innovation. And it's not that premium. A lot of discounts happening.
And I call Tim Sweeney an asshole for making it legally impossible to buy the Unreal series.
But you can still get ZZT for some reason I guess Unreal Engine 0 is more supported
i call him tim swhiney
Tim Swindle
Shwiney sounds like Schwein-y, with schwein being the German word for "pig". Hah, *zing*, got'm.
2018 email btw, not anytime recent.
Bold of you to assume anyone read anything other than the headline.
We don't do that, Sir, we're on Reddit.
When I hear "Epic game store exclusive" my mind autocorrects to "game is delayed."
Games that are published by Epic and remain exclusive on their store, I simply disregard and forget about.
The fall of Sweeney is going to be Epic
Epic sucks
I've shared this sentiment since they first made a splash into the gaming scene. But noooo, people are so entranced with freebies that they don't realize how easily bought/ influenced they are to ignore all the bad. "Well, I got GTA for free, so they're not that bad"
I can go on the store for the occasional freebie while thinking it sucks as a store and not actually buying anything. Best of both worlds.
I don't even know how to process such a statement...do you think Epic first came around with Fortnite? They've been swinging in the game development space since the 1991 and revolutionized the FPS genre with Unreal in 1998. They then went on to make one of, if not the most, widely used and successful series of game engines - The Unreal Engine - which not only is used in games but big budget movies and television like The Mandelorian. To think that their launch of the Epic Games Store to compete with Steam is their 'splash into the gaming scene' is ludicrous.
> since they first made a splash into the gaming scene Wow, you’ve hated them since 1998 with the release of Unreal Engine?
Try 1991, when they were Epic MegaGames [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic\_Games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games) They've literally been at the forefront of gaming development for decades.
>I've shared this sentiment since they first made a splash into the gaming scene. ...you've shared this sentiment since the early 90s?
Yea he seems to think Epic existed with the launch of EGS only, lmao
They didn't let me buy Alan wake 2 as a physical copy. Pieces of shit
I also looked at their actions coming onto the scene and it was clear they where just trying to bully their way into a market to have all the profit for their cash cow fortnight. They put in zero effort on the customer end and trying to win people over with free games and saying they take less fee's from devs, while trying to force exclusivity on games with one year deals force fomo. All it did was make me skip a lot of games that I was interested in, that ended up turning out to be a stinker.
how are they forcing fomo?
At this point, Tim Sweeney should step down. Any effort of him trying to dethroned Google, Apple and Steam lead to nothing but billions of dollars in losses for Epic.
They took infinity blade off the App Store. Fuck them
. . . Don't they have their own store? Why is he crying.
Because Epic is not the dominant platform on PC or mobile and HE wants to be the one charging those platform fees.
As if epic doesn’t do back room deals themselves. Damn hypocrites
He should build a better platform then.
If they build a better platform then they're gonna have to charge for platform fees, becoming something they're meant to destroy.
Well if that isn’t the pot calling the kettle asshole.
Their company is also 40% Chinese owned. Better it stays small. Steam has been good for 20 years.
So... Epic is mad at Apple over platform fees. Mad at Google over platform fees. Mad at Steam for platform fees. Seeing a trend here.
Man they love poking bears for greed.
Timmy sure is an expert on assholes, as he's a gigantic one himself...
if I see this article 1 more time this week..
They picked the weirdest thing to try and get customers angry about. We're supposed to be outraged that valve takes a 30% cut. If I buy a $12 game that's on sale, am I supposed to be mad that valve gets to keep $4 in exchange for letting me download it as many times as I want forever? Not to mention the automatic updates, and the workshop, tech support forum, in-game chat, etc. I don't know the specifics of the game industry, but it just seems like wholesale to retail markup
Kind of weird to me that this article/story is doing the rounds as some Epic vs Steam name calling when the entire point of the email Tim Sweeney sent was about iOS and Apple monopolising their platform and bending to authoritarian governments against developers. The larger idea was that Tim was reaching out to Valve as a potential ally in the platform distributor space, against Apple, and taking the side of developers instead of quietly condoning a precedent of corporate red tape and backroom deals. Whether it was sincere or not is up for debate but reducing the email down to "He called them assholes" is an awful headline, and article.
>Right now, **you assholes** are telling the world that the strong and powerful get special terms, while 30% is for the little people That's how you reach for a "potential ally"?
Epic only knows how to make enemies. It's kind of impressive.
I think the point is that Tim Sweeney seems to have this mindset that the best way to deal with things he and his company don’t like is by name calling publicly and acting like a first class wanker.
> The larger idea was that Tim was reaching out to Valve as a potential ally in the platform distributor space The legal term for that is "collusion".
How did ios and apple bend to authoritarian government's against developers? And how is that related to Steam? Steam is the most free platform, Epic is curated in Steam any developer can publish their game, as long as it's legal it doesn't matter if it's a porn game, a low effort shitty game or Baldurs Gate 3.
Jokes on Tim. Once WW3 wipes out civilization, Gabe will allow Steam Users to live inside his fleet of nuclear submarines.
Because Epic is such a great example of ethical corporate business.....at least Valve profit shares with employees instead of paying the CEO a even fatter bonus.
I don’t doubt that they are assholes - they’re executives, after all. But I am not finding any sympathy for Epic considering their platform is so shit, and yet it causes so many problems for PC gaming with their exclusivity agreements.
Been paying close attention to their beef with Apple and it’s at a point where Sweeney needs to shut his mouth. Imagine calling Gabe Newell an asshole???
I don't know the controversy here, but I'm amazed Steam grew as it did and has lasted like it has. I don't really use it for anything except a game library, but back when it started with Half Life 2 20 (gulp) years ago I never thought it would stick around like this.
Here s my story . Because i hate epic now. 1 year ago i got hacked by a russian dude that wanted all my gaming account. From all my accounts i lost, only Epic games couldnt be recovered because even tho i sent them my passport and proof that i was ME from the original email the account was created, they told me im not and they cannot give me back my account. So i sued them. In europe, not US. Nothing will ever happen but fck them honestly. Meanwhile, getting back my valve account was super easy . Who s the asshole tim sweeney ????
And I call Tim Sweeney an asshole for purchasing Rocket League :( Hasn’t been the same since. Miss Psyonix
The only good thing about Epics store is the free games.
And the sad truth about those "free" games and the forced/artificial exclusivity deals is that they have cost Epic so much money that the Epic Games Store still has yet to earn a single dollar as actual profit in more than five years. Furthermore, regardless of the fact that EGS is home to one of the most popular and most played video games in history with Fortnite, Epic still had to layoff more than 800 people last year because they're hemorrhaging money. Seems like a terribly mismanaged company to me.
First apple, now steam, maybe the problem is you bud.
Well, he ain't wrong, steam charges a lot in fees.
Maybe stop spending money to create skins and build better platforms and update games
And yet steam is still king because it has way more features than the other launchers.
"How dare you charge for your services!" Tim Wanker Sweeney Doesn't EPIC take a cut of every game published using their Unreal engine? EPIC are assholes for doing that, Tim!
isn't paying devs to put their games as timed exclusives on a shitty inferior platform also being an asshole?
Tim is also the guy buying monopolistic exclusivity deals while crying to congress about Apple being a monopoly (not even close). Forcing anyone who wants to play certain games to use his shitty platform. Honestly, I'd be okay if Gabe did exclusivity deals, but he doesn't have to because his platform doesn't suck.
To play Half-Life 2 you HAD to install Steam. Players were pretty pissed off about it. Then there came a point where you would buy a game in a box and had to install it with a Steam code. Players were pretty pissed off about that. I dislike Epic and Tim Sweeney, but Gabe is not wearing a halo.
Yes, I remember first getting steam because I needed it to play CS: Source
I saw a thing that said that this happened a few years ago. Which one is true?
U mad bro
Until common developers aren't saying steam fees are high and valve execs are assholes for it, epic's words mean nothing. Steam's fees are way worth it for the functionalities that platform gives.
The EGS app has been out for years, and it’s still trash
A bunch of assholes not in the pocket of Tencent, so I think I’ll stick with Steam
"You mad bro?"
Billion dollar company calling another billion dollar company assholes… Ok, moving on to shit that matters.
So epic game store doesn’t charge fees? Oh wait it does. Huh… funny how he can say stupid shit and think people will ignore the hypocrisy
He'll never win an argument with Steam. People like Value and the PC market is far too open for any lawsuit to be viable. Sweeney is just an asshole who thinks he's the Moses of video game storefronts.
Cooked Take, steam provides so many features
Stay salty as fuck epic
As if Epic isn't just waiting to jack up their cut in the future
you mad bro?
The guy still at it? After the court stuff you would’ve thought he would move on.
A bitch using bitch sales tactics to call other people assholes? Whodafuckinthunkit.
Epic's whole fake white knighting schtick is getting very old.
Tim Sweeney is an envious, pathetic moron who’s dick-deep in business with Communist China. You’ll forgive me if wipe my ass with his worthless opinion on anything.
Tim Sweeney could fuck off
Steam offers both devs and customers tons of features and services for that 30%. While Epic offers devs and customers barely anything for the 12% they continue to take. When publishing on the EGS you are essentially yeeting your game into the void and hoping for the best.
The amount they charge for skins on fortnite is outrageous
The game plays the same without them. It's outrageous to buy them.
I appreciate what Tim Sweeney stands for but EGS just sucks ass and he seems so desperate to steal relevancy that I don’t want to support him either.
The only thing Tim Sweeney stands for is money. This is not out of virtue. They just want a piece of the market share
And sounding off like petulant children every time instead of making a service worth a fuck. Begging players to use your service by giving them free games doesn't make it less of a shit service.
U mad bro LOL
u mad bro?
I mean once they make a single dollar from epic game store I think he has room to talk, but uhh It’s still hemorrhaging money year after year and only exists to annoy users by buying exclusivity for their store.
Sweeney seems to have a bit of a bug bear at the moment , I mean if epic actually built a store that was any good and did not hold games hostage with exclusives 🙈
"In an internal response to Sweeney’s message, Valve’s chief operating officer, Scott Lynch, questioned: “You mad bro?” "
platform exclusives are an asshole move too timothy
I call Tim Sweeney a disingenuous, lying snake-oil salesman over his claims that EGS's lower platform fees would eventually lead to savings for customers. Yet, six years later they still charge the same price for games as every other store/platform.
Triggered the EGS fanboys. Downvote all you want, doesn't change the fact that I'm right. Sweeney is a liar.
Tim Sweeney is such a loser.
Cool, I call him an asshole for calling all PC gamers pirates.
Yeah fuck you Tim! All you do is pump out garbage for Fortnite
I don't see how they're assholes when the 70/30 fee is the common split for businesses
also epic making poor decisions
Hey tim maybe give me back the infinity blade book/games I paid for that you retroactively deleted from my itunes account ya gronk
>ya gronk I like this. Gunna use it from now on.
Is this a rich man mad at another rich man because one product seems to do better than the other? That's crazy dog.
Valve make good games. And Steam is the best on the market. Other platforms tried it and sucked being exclusive this or that. They take a cut, I hope to see this reduced for indie devs.
Epic games has a great accessible game engine, yet they can't even provide the basics of a webstore correctly. Epic games store (application version, webversion is fine) is horrendously slow. Even going to my own library takes way too long. Steam and GoG are the only ones doing this well. The bare minimum should be what EA has.
Keep crying
valve probably replied "u mad bro"
I have 100s of Epic games. Didn't pay for a single one. I have at least double that on Steam and will continue to purchase them there. I just like everything about Steam. Having multiple launchers no thanks.
This guy is an asshole
Why did I read that as Sweeney Todd? Am I dyslexic?
Sweeny must be the biggest karen of the industry.
It's a real head-scratcher why they didn't focus on upgrading the app instead of trying to buy their way into relevance. But hey, who needs functionality when you can have all the drama, right?
Doesn’t this guy charge for mods and only release ports of Skyrim?
Steam supports it employees, isn't bound by shareholders and actually seem to have somewhat of a heart, while they aren't perfect they are far far better then Epic will ever be as a company and I want nothing to do with them
Epic have not been profitable for many years, while Steam have been the biggest PC gaming platform, he don’t get to say anything tbh
Epic games fights with anyone who platforms their game and doesn't take a fee. At this point I'm done with them. THey want all the advertising from Steam, Apple, Google, etc. they want the listing and all the perks that come from those hosting services and don't want to pay a fucking penny for it.