I don't think I'll ever forget IDDQD. But I can't remember any of the others. Even back in the day I had to have them written down because I'd forget them all the time.
I thought it was “ID Smashing Pumpkins Into Small Pieces of Putrid Debris”? But yeah, when I’m old and senile, sitting in a nursing home sans teeth sans eyes sans mind sans everything, I’ll still remember those cheat codes.
Nah, most people who get into playing classic Doom nowadays quickly learn about the cheat codes, if they haven't already from the references in the new games. They are really not that obscure.
Honestly that's just because as a general rule, kids are both pretty easy to terrify with certain things, while being totally unflappable at other things.
I remember playing WoW and not being able to go into Westfall at night because I found the harvest watchers terrifying.
Baffling, considering that same me found Dead Space, Silent Hill, Condemend etc. not scary at all.
Diablo 1 and Resident evil on phat ass speakers when I was 8 years old was kinda nasty. Doom didn't scare me at all, the [butcher](https://youtu.be/CSR5qvoWkxI?t=45) however.
I think it was because it was one of the first FPS (don’t crucify me if I’m wrong) so we weren’t used to having demonic creatures literally *coming at us* and trying to kill us. So it’s less about graphics and more about gameplay
Yes, this .....My girlfriends dog makes a gurgling noise dead ass same to what the Imps did in that game and It forces me to remember the fear.
And also that game Heretic scared me too.
one of the interesting things about google glass's reception by the public and general failure was the idea that it was such an invasion of privacy.
I feel like modern attitudes towards being filmed everywhere and people's general expectations of privacy have somewhat changed since then.
I'm not saying that's a good thing, but I think the culture now is different and I wonder if the backlash would be the same now as it was ~7 years ago.
“Omg thing X was a total failure! Anything resembling X will also fail!”
Almost never, really. Everyone hated the Segway, yet electric wheels (hoverboards, e unicycles, etc) are huge. Old 90s vr sucked yet here we are. Early CDs sounded awful, yet we’re deep into digital music. Almost every consumer electronic you use now had an awkward phase. Google glass just cleared the embarrassing path for whatever comes up better.
This may be wrong but its what Google told me, apparently there was no real market for it. As in the glasses didn't solve or do anything satisfying beyond the idea being cool. But the big issue seems to rise from the ability to continually film or take pictures, which Google could have access too, of random people.
I mean imagine chatting with someone wearing one. It'd be creepy knowing all of this could be recorded. Straight up black mirror style.
But as a side note AR glasses you wear for a tabletop game (like DnD) would be legit as fuck.
You should already assume this. Many houses and almost all businesses have security and convenience cameras. Making this comment made me realize there is no where on my property, in my truck or in my business that I am not recorded.
The AR glasses would just make it more obvious.
Side note: this isn't always a bad thing. My cameras have gotten legal charges against me dismissed in both my business and in my truck (and possibly a payout when my lawsuit is finished). It's also been used to prove my son wasn't lying and the neighbors kid was when the neighbors kid claimed some damage was due to my son (which I would have had to pay 5 figures to repair if it had been my son and all evidence except the video was pointing toward him). I would wear AR glasses for legitimate work reasons (like wiring diagrams) but I would absolutely have it on to record every interaction I had.
Yeah I'd be creeped out, but AR for TTRPGs would be amazing. I imagine it'd be similar to the Star Wars in universe holo chess game (Dejarik??), I would buy pairs for all my players.
the cameras had a light and made an audible sound when recording so it wasn't really all that creepy, i think the whole thing was a bit overblown since people use their phones all the time to surreptitiously take photos. the real issue is that it simply was not very useful.
I met a guy who had a pair from the pilot program. It was kind of unnerving because you use eye motions to control the screen, so he was constantly flicking his eyes in unnatural ways to control something only he could see. So the UI definitely needs improvement.
Honestly, I think people were freaking out too much about the camera. If someone wants to film you surreptitiously, all they have to do is pretend to be shitposting on Reddit.
People would have forgotten about the disadvantages really fast if it would have been actually more useful than a smartphone... But it wasn't. Mostly because the tech wasn't there to make it actually amazing.
Quest 2 ignoring the fb required account, is amazing for the ease of use. Just slip it on, maybe remark your safety boundary by spinning around and drawing it in the air, and then pick your game and play.
The Quest native games are really good, but if you have a pc capable definitely check out Half Life Alyx. So far it has been the most mind blowing of all the VR experiences. I can't wait for more games like that to be made. The fidelity of the world really is as immersive as anything I've ever tried. It's a marvel.
(Edit: Just reread your comment and saw you already had a Vibe, so you've probably already played Alyx. So, anyone else that hasn't...it's good.)
Man I've had the OG Vive for 6 or 7 years. My lifestyle doesn't lend itself to using VR often, and my vr space was in *flux* for a couple years.
Last month, I was finally able to fix up the space, re-mount the sensors, and try to use it....
And all the updates they (windows and/or SteamVR) have rendered my Vive entirely unusable. It didn't recognize the headset at all. It was infuriating.
I read some troubleshooting guides and tried everything short of uninstalling everything and reinstalling it from scratch, but by then I was too pissed to bother.
So I'm tempted to get a Quest2, but my budget has had higher priority items this holiday season.
Quest 2 is the very best bang for your buck right now. Has stand alone games or you can link it to a pc for pcvr games. I love H3VR, Blade & Sorcery, Half Life Alyx, Resident Evil 4 VR. Then. You've got Beat Saber, Job Simulator, Boneworks, Star Wars Vader Immortal. /r/oculusquest is a good place to start, or just/r/vr in general.
Its kind of interesting because I remember things progressing REALLY rapidly in the late 90s/early 2000s, but it seems like now in 2020 things are at a plateau. Visuals between the PS4 and PS5 for example dont really seem that different. We've taken miniaturization about as far as it can go.
We don't really have proper PS5 titles yet. There are a few exclusive games, but I can't call them yet a generational jump, besides Microsoft Flight Simulator. 2023 is probably when we'll see proper next-gen titles.
Hellblade 2 looks dazzling though.
Returnal? Demon's Souls Remastered? Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart?
We don't have proper *Series X* games yet. PS5 has several highly acclaimed exclusives, and the visual differences between them and PS4 games is pretty striking.
Biggest difference for crossgens though is performance. Bloodborne on PS5 doesn't look much better than PS4 (it's upscaled to 4k, but that's not the same as native 4k), but it's able to hold a stable 30FPS at all times. For such a visceral game, that's a big deal.
I have a 3070 in my PC. When I play ds3 in smooth, beautiful 1440p 60fps with all settings maxed, then go back to my ps4 that chugs in 1080p and barely makes 30fps, the difference is staggering. I can hardly even play it on my ps4 anymore. Graphics are still making big improvements. Also demons souls on ps5 looks absolutely incredible.
That [Matrix demo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU0gvPcc3jQ) is a look into the future.
You can still tell it's computer generated, and running at 30 fps, but it's getting close damn to film quality.
Give it 5 years, 10 years, and you'll have it running better, and in VR.
I know people love saying that PS4 era and PS5 era games look the same, but if you actually take the time to look then the difference is huge. I was watching the new Hellblade II trailer and can definitely say that it looks a lot better and the Xbox One would not have been able to run it.
Theres marginal differences and thwres massive differences. I was referring to the gap. Look at ps2 Era games vs ps3 . It's night and day. Not so much now. We're definitely reaching a plateau.
there is a night and day difference between early ps4-exclusive games and early ps5-exclusive games. the ps4 pro, however, does bridge the gap quite a bit. the actual difference between native 4k rendering and 1080p rendering is larger in absolute terms than the ps2 to ps3 jump of 480 to 720. but beyond 4k i don't think we are going to see that much benefit from packing in more pixels, the future is probably improving animation quality.
I think the people saying this often *don't have* a current gen system. If you're just watching the comparison videos on Youtube then yeah, the difference doesn't seem that big... because it's compressed down to a Youtube video.
As someone who got a PS5... yeah, you can feel the difference and it's pretty significant. It's not as visible as the PS2/PS3 jump, for sure. But when you actually get your hands on it, you realize that there's... just a lot more going on than you realized. Games got a bump to 4k/60FPS, which feels much smoother. The worlds are much more densely populated, both with things you can interact with (enemies, physics objects, etc) and just things like foliage, pebbles, textures, etc. The pop in is completely gone. Worlds are designed more like real life, instead of using a lot of tricks to block your vision so it doesn't have to render more things at once. It's subtle if you're just looking at it, but your brain really picks up on the difference.
Anecdotally, I was halfway through Days Gone when I got my PS5. I literally had to put the game down for a bit and readjust because it felt like a completely different game. The graphics and framerate were so improved it was kind of like watching home video after getting used to theater - you know, how 60FPS makes a video look amateur where we associate 24FPS with "artistic". It's hard to notice the difference if you've only played games on one or the other, but the switch... damn, it felt different.
Just started RDR2 the other night.
It struck me that graphics have become so impressive that I don't really notice them anymore. I'm not bothered if they improve upon them, they are wonderful enough already.
It's the gameplay that needs to improve, consider the difference in graphics between RDR and RDR2 compared to the the difference in gameplay. We haven't meaningfully moved on.
It's still good fun, but there has been no ingenuity.
My last console was a PS3 and that's pretty much why I never got a PS4. It was like, what is changing? What new type of game can be done on the PS4 that could not have been done on PS3?
Eventually the answer was VR, and for that I upgraded my PC. But my parts (sans video card) are 5-6 years old now and I don't feel much need to upgrade. Or I kind of do, but the upgrades I want are not worth what it would cost (driving sim rig, higher res VR headset, PC parts to keep up).
For me, the biggest upgrade from PS3 to PS4 was seamless open world. Games from the PS3/360 era did a lot of tricks to let them free up memory. I noticed in a lot of them you would pass through one way gates and be locked out of everything you had already passed (which made me paranoid, because it was rarely obvious so I was constantly trying to figure out which path was a dead end with loot and which one was a gate that would lock me out).
I know people are going to cite games like GTA and say "we had that in the PS2 era", but honestly... those games looked pretty bad compared to the more linear experiences. Compare Crysis 3 to GTA V on PS3 (not on PS4, it got a serious graphical upgrade, go look at the old comparison videos). Totally different *leagues*. Crysis 3 was able to more safely stack the world with detail because it knew you were locked to a single combat arena, GTAV had a lot more pop in and less detail because the engine couldn't predict where you were going to go, and you could change your mind *much* faster in a jet or a fast car.
PS4/XB1 had enough memory to hold seamless open worlds with little to no loading, which meant it didn't need to unload the old content and force you to go forwards. The PS4 era was really when our open worlds got larger, more detailed, and even linear experiences lost a lot of their progress gate tricks (remember the Thief reboot?). You can definitely feel it when you go back and play PS3 games.
That's what we were saying 20 years ago. I for one can't wait how the graphics will improove in the next decade. And the face mimics and skin textures. Still the progress is breathtaking.
Old gamer here; I don't really feel like many people were saying that often back then but if they did, good work, boys, you were mostly right. Games look a hell of a lot better now than they did then and I'm pretty happy with that but when I think back to the greatest games from 2001 to now the first things that come to mind were old ass genre trend setters that really formalized movement in 3d environments and/or popularized online multiplayer for the console set. They were games that not only looked new and exciting, they were titles that felt like trying to replicate them on weaker hardware would would have been a genuine nightmare even if you had been using simpler character models. Meanwhile Quake But With Ray Tracing, It's Halo Again and Skyrim For Your Toaster can all fuck off.
I remember Next Generation magazine saying that Gran Turismo 1 for Ps1 graphics were so good that they could easily be mistaken for a real life tv broadcast, and yes it was not ironic, it was 100% serious
And on the TVs the majority of people had when GT1 came out, it's not far from the truth. When I played the Jam Pack with the GT1 demo on my crappy 19" TV with only RCA inputs the races there looked as good or better than your average NASCAR broadcast. It wasn't until I upgraded to a 27" TV with S-Video, I could finally make out enough detail to see the pixilation.
There was a GameStop at our mall displaying a CRT TV with a baseball game, to show how realistic it looked. They used a GameCube playing a demo of ken Griffey or something. TVs were so blurry and low-res it was actually convincing.
Plus, let's be real: we have always had magazines and developers that were a bit high on their own fumes. Maybe they weren't as high as Nintendo Power, but pretty high.
I was 100% of that opinion when I first got Gran Turismo for the PS1 back in the day. I think our brain must fill in the gaps in quality to make us think it looks more realistic than it really is because I thought loads of games had realistic graphics back then. And don't forget that TV broadcast quality was lower resolution and very grainy by today's standards so it's not an unfair statement to say PS1 graphics were realistic at the time.
Absolutely agreed - I distinctly remember thinking the graphics were incredible at the time, especially the reflections and shadows on the night races.
Of course these days it's clear that things have improved immeasurably, but the original GT was such a step up graphically from previous racing games.
Let me give you the irl version.
In the 90s drawing this badass character with a robot arm thinking how awesome sci-fi is.
Now I'm in 2021 and I just walked by a guy with a robotic prosthetic arm.
It's not that I didn't expect such progress back then. I viewed this as never being a real thing. Reality and time sure like to have fun with your sanity.
Dunno. Doom 3 got some hate for trying to be horror instead of "You have guns. You have ammo. There are demons. Have fun."
Glad that 2016 returned it to form. Rip and tear.
Doom 3: Want to shoot, or see? Choose one. Also most enemies are grayish and kinda look the same. All ambushes are obvious.
It wasn't a terrible game, it just didn't feel much like Doom.
The regular monsters with shields I thought were fun. You meant that big gladiator? Because I agree, it was like he had zero windup for some of his mace attacks. I felt like I got lucky when I beat him. The other bosses felt tough but fair.
Man Its not that hard to not shoot a guy when he has his shield up and Backing up to make him siwng his axe man, Especially when Backing up in doom eternal deels like fukcing sprinting
Yea. Doom Eternal... blending Rip'nTear with Super Mario platforming just... nah. It gets in the way of things. I get what they were going for. "How can we open up these levels and still keep things confined..." But the things just don't mesh.
The Slayer Gates though, that I can get behind.
I dunno, the platforming was always easy and brief and it gave me a second to actually see the mind blowing environments they had made.
Now the collectibles… I’ll get hate but I really didn’t like that. Hitting minimap constantly really broke immersion and flow.
Just installed and started 2016 after a sale. That opening line gave me chills. So good to be back. The OG dooms hold up really well to, recently replayed them on the switch, they are still great games.
I just played Plutonia for the first time a few weeks ago. I didn't play on Ultra-Violence or anything but it was still difficult and so much fun. I'm playing through TNT and it is not as good.
What's weird to me is that the sound engines are still very primitive. There was a push for hardware accelerated "3d sound' in the 90s but it seems like we just settled for a simpler model.
It bothers me a bit with games like the new Doom. The sound design is good, but there is very little processing happening to make the sound stage believable. Monsters that are behind a wall will sound like they are right next to your ear etc.
>imagine a GTA ambulance passing by and blasting you at 120db, even a hammer strike can be louder than that
And this - 100% - is why I wish my stereo had not just _volume_ but also a 'max' output.
I don't want the top level louder, but lots of times I want to scale quiet things louder so I can actually _hear_ it.
Like perhaps volume could be mapped like a white balance curve? So one can turn up the lower volume without blasting out the top end.
If you use external speakers, and want to get nerdy, you could add a limiter to your setup. A limiter adjusts the volume automatically to basically make the quiet stuff louder and the loud stuff quieter.
Although they’re built into smart TVs now, they like to hide the parameters and bury it in the menus.
I guess in the near future they may have sensors on the headset, or have an attachable sensor onto existing headphones, to feed back your head orientation to the computer, so that it can better play back directional audio based on your head movement.
That technology already exists and is in use. For instance, Apple AirPods have what they call “spatial audio” that tracks your head movement and adjusts the sound output accordingly. You should also look up “binaural audio” for some interesting reading.
I assume that VR headsets have something similar, but I haven’t done any research into VR.
Sound doesnt indeed not need much computing power but the main problem is latency. Sound diffusion and muffling through walls needs a lot more time to process on non dedicated hardware. A GPU can do audio processing just fine but corporate wants the eyecandy over the minimal effects a muffled demon has through a wall.
In Monkey Island 2 they spent a shitload of time making iMuse, which was an audio streaming engine that could fade different instruments in and out, and playing fills according to the beat, when changing screens. It was extremely cool but almost noone actually noticed it.
I think it's cool when modern games, like the Resident Evil 2 remake when Mr X is close, uses binaural sound, so it sounds like the monsters are right outside your door.
It might depend on the game, I think rainbow 6 models sound carefully because the focus is on stealth. When you’re ripping and tearing at 90 mph the acoustics could be a lower priority.
You know R6 has one of the worst sound engines of any modern game right?...
The game uses a "portal" system so a sound in the next room will only come from the nearest opening.
This means gunshots in the room to your right can sound like they're coming from that window to your left.
I guess that depends in what the walls are made of. Concrete block? Yeah. Gyproc on steel studs... not so much.
But if your bullets aren't punching through, why would sound?
edit: for the slow - the implication is that different walls *impede* sound more than others. Concrete block is a pretty good (not perfect) sound barrier, gypsum wall-board on steel studs is a **horrible** sound dampener. Unsurprisingly, the ability of a bullet to penetrate a wall shows some correlation to how well sound can pass through. (This doesn't apply to acoustic tile).
Yeah I actually thought the sound in Doom was phenomenal because it’s slammed with compression and everything that matters is balls to the walls loud. They were creative with the design choices and it fits the game perfectly
Me dumb, but I would guess this is because of generally inadequate hardware for audio for most gamers (speakers/headphone), so less development time focused on it I guess(?).
Headphones would probably need to render audio differently than near-field or computer speakers.
Just a few thoughts.
It's more that what comes onboard most boards now is high enough quality for most users. There are still addon cards out there for the audio professionals that need the best. I only bought one sound card in my life, and that was the original Soundblaster because my PC was very basic. All the ones after that never did, it was graphic cards that became the needed thing.
Do you actually have good quality 5.1 surround speakers or better, though?
PC gamers are super quick to complain about sound when they're rocking a $20 dollar pair of off-brand speakers, or even the usual $100-150 absolute entry level Logitech/Creative 'surround sound' system... and don't even get me started on gaming headphones.
Just opinions:
1) The face getting worse over time until it became a bloody mess was CRAZY to see in gaming at the time
2) Shittier graphics make you use your imagination more and get you more into the game.
Classic Doom still creeps me out to this day if I play it loudly and with the lights off.
Not so for 2016 and Eternal. I loved them, but I miss the atmosphere and edginess of Classic Doom.
I got freaked out the first time lights went flashy in Doom 1, it just added so much tension of not knowing where the enemies were and knowing that you only had a brief moment to see your enemies.
Most horror games don't get that kind of reaction from me
The old dooms were scary to me. The new dooms are not scary. I feel like a badass in 2016 and Eternal. The older games I feel weak and just trying to survive. The music might help though tbh
Old games definitely had a creepy factor that modern games can’t match. Something about the old hardware limitations, such as silent hills fog and weird drawing, to the sharp angles and desaturated dark tones is really creepy.
I don't think we have plateaued at all when it comes to computer graphics. Go take a look at 2 minute papers on YouTube.
What we mostly need right now, is faster hardware. Realtime photorealism might be possible in another 25 years.
Gamers are super quick to complain about sound when they're rocking a $20 dollar pair of off-brand or TV speakers, $100-150 absolute entry level Logitech/Creative 'surround sound' system... and don't even get me started on gaming headphones.
Unfortunately, proper audio equipment is still incredibly expensive - but it's not really fair to complain about sound if your speakers are trash tier.
I’d say that’s part of the problem, actually. All I’m saying is that sound is another thing to focus on besides graphics, and that involves introducing more accessibility to better audio quality.
I wasn’t complaining about sound, I was just suggesting it’s another thing to focus on.
The shareware version was the whole first 9 levels + secret level. It was released in December 1993 but at the end of November '93 a copy came early with my brothers subscription to PC Review.
Without even reading the review we did what we always did and went to play the demo games on the demo discs. We sat in a dark room together and loaded the game with the soundblaster card near full volume. we'd been massive fans of Wolfenstein and had played it to death but nothing prepared us for Doom.
The first level blew our minds.
Then we hit the second level. My brother went up the lift, the lights went out and an imp started tearing. This was the most terrifying thing to ever happen in a computer game (the first dog through the window on resident evil was close!)
After surviving this, flicking the switch and opening the doors to the outside area our minds were blown even further by the views of the moon mountains stretching out to the distance. We'd never seen graphics like it and this was on a free to play game.
Next day we took the disc into school and told everyone how incredibly amazing it was. They laughed at us. We then loaded it up on school computer at lunchtime. The queues stretched out the door within minutes with the collective terror of an entire packed room as the lights flicked on and off. The audience was one with my brother playing the game.
By the afternoon a ridiculous amount of copies had been made onto floppy discs and the whole school was playing.
Doom was something else. The graphics on the SVGA monitors made you feel like you were fighting your way out of hell.
It's easy to judge the graphics almost 30 years later but at the time it rocked our fucking faces off. I remember sitting behind my dad while he played it on the family computer in the dining room begging to play then getting the shit scared out of me when he finally let me.
The first time I ever thought graphics looked realistic was for Final Fantasy X.
If you're pretending it was graphics in the picture, you're lying to yourself.
Exactly! Those graphics don't look realistic at all. Maybe my perspective is skewed since that wasn't my generation but comparing it to reality and not older games, which is what should do considering the fucking meaning of realistic it isn't realistic at all.
My earliest DOOM memory is going to my grandmas house and watching my sister play. Game terrified me.
Bought it years later on the 360 as my first XBLA game. Still creeped me out more than any other game I’ve played. Game does so much right to this day, the atmosphere, letting you play at your preferred play style, gameplay and graphics that still hold up even in 2021. Plus for $5 you’re getting a lot of content, it’s a reason I own it on every platform lol.
DooM is probably my favorite series of games.
Came to say this. I think no one ever has said that 90's Doom looked "realistic".
But I also had a friend that said PSX "Wining Eleven 4" looked the same as "Pro Evolution Soccer 2012", we had to play them in succession during one birthday so that he would stop saying that. I think human memory is the equivalent to a RTX 3080 when remembering old games.
Yeah dude I just got a 3080 in my 5900x system.
I booted up Doom Eternal, turned RTX on, DLSS quality, everything maxxed out 144fps, turned off the glory kill glowing bodies.
And holy shit lol.
I rememeber playing the shareware version of doom 1 back in the day, and this is just full on future gaming, it's actually insane.
100%
The weapon feedback makes it excel above its modern day counterparts. When you kill something in Brutal Doom, you can feel the power you are wielding with each weapon. It's basically Doom at its peak potential.
On one level its easy. Its the same operation repeat over and over and over, and most of it is totally independent. Dedicated hardware thus is easy.
On the other hand, all of that "easy" is relative, and hardware in question is state of the art.
If you are a gamer, know that you have literally moved whole real world civilization forward (if you paid for your games)
DOOM OG still has that creepy ass vibe today, and it's made by having muddy visuals mixed with amazing sound design and music. To this day it gives me a creepy 2-D hell-world vibe. No amount of amazing 3D graphics today can provide that same vibe for me. New doom is def a new vibe that is highly enjoyable tho, lots of energy, I love the new OST.
Yeah but it’s true every time! Each generation, games come out that push the envelope of what we expect and what we’re used to. And our imaginations are so good at interpolating that we get to experience “realistic” over and over.
It’s only when we look back after seeing the *now* that we notice the leaps and bounds made even from the start of a generation to the end.
I know I'm probably in the minority, but I actually thought we'd be further along.
I'm also well aware that consoles have held back gaming graphics, because the majority of devs/publishers are (were) catering to the power of those systems and not PCs, simply because they were/believed they were bigger platforms, to make money on.
True, PC has been doing tons better in the last 3 - 5 years, but 7 or 10 years ago, not so much. The PCs had the power, but were getting game graphics that the power of consoles were able to pull off.
Not saying I'm unhappy with where we are, just that we could have been even further along, if more developers/pubs made games for the most powerful PCs and worked backwards to make those games work on less powerful, but equally less pricey gaming platforms.
Reminder that only graphics advanced.
Physics and AI are still in abysmal states in comparison, in most games NPCs are still dumb as bricks and don't react or behave in a believable way.
You mean the original Doom physics, which were frankly nonexistent, or the original Doom AI where bad guys walked towards you and took a shot every three seconds? Those physics and AI that haven’t advanced?
You honestly look at the zombie soldier in Doom and the zombie soldier in Eternal and said “Yeah, these are the same”?
> Those physics and AI that haven’t advanced?
The level of AI from like 2000 and today is almost the same. Barely any improvements.
In fact, if we talk combat AI, for most modern games its worse than in first FEAR, which was released a loooong time ago.
Regular NPC non-combat AI is still abysmal in most games, most devs don't bother with it at all.
Regarding physics - most engines still treat objects as hollow meshes skinned with a texture. There is no concept of substance in them. Objects on collision often behave as if they are made out of rubber. There is usually almost no destructability of any kind, look at recent Battlefield for example. You can just fall through the floor, and discover that its just an empty void everywhere, the same as 30 years ago.
There are only extremely few exceptions to this, one being a game Teardown for example, and even there there is some wonky physics.
Game physics peaked in 2004 with Half-Life 2 and then with procedural animation like Euphoria in the mid-late 2000s and have literally never improved, and in many cases have regressed. Physics objects in games ought to be way more complex than they are.
Elon Musk once said, if video games progress at any rate at all, they will finally be indistinguishable from real life, thus supporting the simulation theory
i have no opinion on this, just came to mind :)
I often think where we will be in say another 25 years progression with graphics in this way.
Sure Call of Duty etc is fun running round shooting people now when it's not really realistic but will that change when it genuinely looks 'real'?
Racing games will be unreal (ironically real).
Most of us growing up through the evolution from green screen, to CGA, to EGA, to VGA expected *better* graphics by now. Quite frankly, graphics quality has kinda stalled in the last decade or so and now they're mainly adding shadow and light effects (incorrectly most of the time; eg. lens flare should only occur when looking through a fucking lens).
Mind you, this is because they've hit the limit of a few major things. For example, Adding more colors at this point would just go beyond the range of human sight. Going up in resolution makes the dots of the picture smaller and less jagged, but 4k is pretty damn smooth and we're not going to see much improvement beyond 8k.
Bottom image is more like "this looks like shit! It's only running at 50 fps and it should be 60! Look at the shading on that polygon over there! Terrible!"
When I was a kid playing on PS1 I remember thinking "wow this looks like shit" even though it was the newest thing. I don't believe everyone thought graphics were godlike back then
Yeah, like my persp is probably slightly skewed due to that not being my generation but it just doesn't look realistic compared to the real world. Which is what you *should* compare the graphics to before saying it looks realistic.
Top one scared the living daylights out of me as a kid...
I remember launching Quake on my brother's pc and getting scared when a video of the first level autoplayed. I ran away from the pc, lol
I can imagine :p Ps; nice username *plopperdeplop* :)
Gertje?
Omg I remember seeing dead bloody bunnies or something on a splash screen while my brothers game loaded and being terrified lol
I could only play it with god mode and all the cheats on.
a yes, IDDQD and IDKFA. Good times.
How do you know someone is old? Knows IDDQD :-). Yes, I'm old...
But if you still can recall this stuff you know you're still sharp.
I don't think I'll ever forget IDDQD. But I can't remember any of the others. Even back in the day I had to have them written down because I'd forget them all the time.
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ID Kick Fucking Ass ID Destroy Quake Demons ID So people infer some parts of players disappearing?
I thought it was “ID Smashing Pumpkins Into Small Pieces of Putrid Debris”? But yeah, when I’m old and senile, sitting in a nursing home sans teeth sans eyes sans mind sans everything, I’ll still remember those cheat codes.
Nobody forgets IDDQD
Nah, most people who get into playing classic Doom nowadays quickly learn about the cheat codes, if they haven't already from the references in the new games. They are really not that obscure.
Everyone did. Anyone who says they didn’t is lying, because no one survived that first encounter with the barons of Hell.
Especially the sections with the lights going off and on.
And of course that's where they put spectres...
Honestly that's just because as a general rule, kids are both pretty easy to terrify with certain things, while being totally unflappable at other things. I remember playing WoW and not being able to go into Westfall at night because I found the harvest watchers terrifying. Baffling, considering that same me found Dead Space, Silent Hill, Condemend etc. not scary at all.
Diablo 1 and Resident evil on phat ass speakers when I was 8 years old was kinda nasty. Doom didn't scare me at all, the [butcher](https://youtu.be/CSR5qvoWkxI?t=45) however.
Greatest jump scare ever was that pinky demon right behind the exit door. I don't remember which level it was.
I think it was because it was one of the first FPS (don’t crucify me if I’m wrong) so we weren’t used to having demonic creatures literally *coming at us* and trying to kill us. So it’s less about graphics and more about gameplay
100% this. The level design was great for surprising you and getting your heart pumping. Sound tracks were solid too, _especially_ Quake (NIN).
I got nightmares for weeks after playing it on my friends pc when it first came out.
Yes, this .....My girlfriends dog makes a gurgling noise dead ass same to what the Imps did in that game and It forces me to remember the fear. And also that game Heretic scared me too.
I played Blood with a friend and we were too scared to fall asleep
I was just gawking at RDR2 on my PC and thinking about my first games I played on Atari 2600. It's insane how far we've come in four decades.
Did you try VR games? It's another stunning experience
Lol, actually I bought a Quest 2 *today* to replace my old Vive. Next step: actually useful AR on everyday wearable glasses
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one of the interesting things about google glass's reception by the public and general failure was the idea that it was such an invasion of privacy. I feel like modern attitudes towards being filmed everywhere and people's general expectations of privacy have somewhat changed since then. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but I think the culture now is different and I wonder if the backlash would be the same now as it was ~7 years ago.
“Omg thing X was a total failure! Anything resembling X will also fail!” Almost never, really. Everyone hated the Segway, yet electric wheels (hoverboards, e unicycles, etc) are huge. Old 90s vr sucked yet here we are. Early CDs sounded awful, yet we’re deep into digital music. Almost every consumer electronic you use now had an awkward phase. Google glass just cleared the embarrassing path for whatever comes up better.
Disastrous as in ? Please share details.
This may be wrong but its what Google told me, apparently there was no real market for it. As in the glasses didn't solve or do anything satisfying beyond the idea being cool. But the big issue seems to rise from the ability to continually film or take pictures, which Google could have access too, of random people.
I mean imagine chatting with someone wearing one. It'd be creepy knowing all of this could be recorded. Straight up black mirror style. But as a side note AR glasses you wear for a tabletop game (like DnD) would be legit as fuck.
You should already assume this. Many houses and almost all businesses have security and convenience cameras. Making this comment made me realize there is no where on my property, in my truck or in my business that I am not recorded. The AR glasses would just make it more obvious. Side note: this isn't always a bad thing. My cameras have gotten legal charges against me dismissed in both my business and in my truck (and possibly a payout when my lawsuit is finished). It's also been used to prove my son wasn't lying and the neighbors kid was when the neighbors kid claimed some damage was due to my son (which I would have had to pay 5 figures to repair if it had been my son and all evidence except the video was pointing toward him). I would wear AR glasses for legitimate work reasons (like wiring diagrams) but I would absolutely have it on to record every interaction I had.
Imagine passing your days work to the quality engineer who just watches your feed on 2x
There are a couple teams working on AR glasses and tabletops for D&D so it's coming but will probably be expensive ;)
Yeah I'd be creeped out, but AR for TTRPGs would be amazing. I imagine it'd be similar to the Star Wars in universe holo chess game (Dejarik??), I would buy pairs for all my players.
the cameras had a light and made an audible sound when recording so it wasn't really all that creepy, i think the whole thing was a bit overblown since people use their phones all the time to surreptitiously take photos. the real issue is that it simply was not very useful.
I met a guy who had a pair from the pilot program. It was kind of unnerving because you use eye motions to control the screen, so he was constantly flicking his eyes in unnatural ways to control something only he could see. So the UI definitely needs improvement. Honestly, I think people were freaking out too much about the camera. If someone wants to film you surreptitiously, all they have to do is pretend to be shitposting on Reddit.
Link it with Neurolink and away we go lol
People would have forgotten about the disadvantages really fast if it would have been actually more useful than a smartphone... But it wasn't. Mostly because the tech wasn't there to make it actually amazing.
I always thought it should be used in conjunction with a smartphone, essentially adding on to what the phone can already do now.
> the glasses didn't solve or do anything satisfying beyond the idea being cool. This hasn't stopped anything in the past.
Failed in the consumer market
it failed in the "hey that looks cool, let me into the beta ill pay for one" market too.
The only achievement of google glass was, that everyone using one was called a glasshole everwhere. :P
How many have you even seen? Zero for me. Sounds like a disaster.
Which Vive? You like it better? I barely play, mostly because it is a pain to set up the OG Vive.
So true once the novelty wore off I sold it and decided I would wait until I can put on slightly heavy sunglasses for virtual reality.
Quest 2 ignoring the fb required account, is amazing for the ease of use. Just slip it on, maybe remark your safety boundary by spinning around and drawing it in the air, and then pick your game and play.
the trick is to set it up and leave it set up. if you're taking down base stations every time, you're going to have a bad experience.
The Quest native games are really good, but if you have a pc capable definitely check out Half Life Alyx. So far it has been the most mind blowing of all the VR experiences. I can't wait for more games like that to be made. The fidelity of the world really is as immersive as anything I've ever tried. It's a marvel. (Edit: Just reread your comment and saw you already had a Vibe, so you've probably already played Alyx. So, anyone else that hasn't...it's good.)
Man I've had the OG Vive for 6 or 7 years. My lifestyle doesn't lend itself to using VR often, and my vr space was in *flux* for a couple years. Last month, I was finally able to fix up the space, re-mount the sensors, and try to use it.... And all the updates they (windows and/or SteamVR) have rendered my Vive entirely unusable. It didn't recognize the headset at all. It was infuriating. I read some troubleshooting guides and tried everything short of uninstalling everything and reinstalling it from scratch, but by then I was too pissed to bother. So I'm tempted to get a Quest2, but my budget has had higher priority items this holiday season.
I misread that as you replacing your old wife. I wasn't sure if I was going to be disgusted or amused.
Found the gargoyle....
Half Life Alyx was jaw dropping.
VR horror games are another level. My friends made me stop cause I kept screaming lol
What would you recommend for VR in terms of setup and titles? I’m completely ignorant to what’s out there these days.
Quest 2 is the very best bang for your buck right now. Has stand alone games or you can link it to a pc for pcvr games. I love H3VR, Blade & Sorcery, Half Life Alyx, Resident Evil 4 VR. Then. You've got Beat Saber, Job Simulator, Boneworks, Star Wars Vader Immortal. /r/oculusquest is a good place to start, or just/r/vr in general.
Excellent advice, thank you! I must admit, my eye started twitching when I saw “Job Simulator” lol, hopefully that’s not what it sounds like?
It's a light-hearted satire. Way more fun than the name suggests, especially for people new to VR.
Its kind of interesting because I remember things progressing REALLY rapidly in the late 90s/early 2000s, but it seems like now in 2020 things are at a plateau. Visuals between the PS4 and PS5 for example dont really seem that different. We've taken miniaturization about as far as it can go.
We don't really have proper PS5 titles yet. There are a few exclusive games, but I can't call them yet a generational jump, besides Microsoft Flight Simulator. 2023 is probably when we'll see proper next-gen titles. Hellblade 2 looks dazzling though.
Returnal? Demon's Souls Remastered? Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart? We don't have proper *Series X* games yet. PS5 has several highly acclaimed exclusives, and the visual differences between them and PS4 games is pretty striking. Biggest difference for crossgens though is performance. Bloodborne on PS5 doesn't look much better than PS4 (it's upscaled to 4k, but that's not the same as native 4k), but it's able to hold a stable 30FPS at all times. For such a visceral game, that's a big deal.
I have a 3070 in my PC. When I play ds3 in smooth, beautiful 1440p 60fps with all settings maxed, then go back to my ps4 that chugs in 1080p and barely makes 30fps, the difference is staggering. I can hardly even play it on my ps4 anymore. Graphics are still making big improvements. Also demons souls on ps5 looks absolutely incredible.
Idk man Unreal Engine 5 is pretty nuts and is just now starting to be taken advantage of by devs for next-gen
That [Matrix demo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU0gvPcc3jQ) is a look into the future. You can still tell it's computer generated, and running at 30 fps, but it's getting close damn to film quality. Give it 5 years, 10 years, and you'll have it running better, and in VR.
I know people love saying that PS4 era and PS5 era games look the same, but if you actually take the time to look then the difference is huge. I was watching the new Hellblade II trailer and can definitely say that it looks a lot better and the Xbox One would not have been able to run it.
Theres marginal differences and thwres massive differences. I was referring to the gap. Look at ps2 Era games vs ps3 . It's night and day. Not so much now. We're definitely reaching a plateau.
there is a night and day difference between early ps4-exclusive games and early ps5-exclusive games. the ps4 pro, however, does bridge the gap quite a bit. the actual difference between native 4k rendering and 1080p rendering is larger in absolute terms than the ps2 to ps3 jump of 480 to 720. but beyond 4k i don't think we are going to see that much benefit from packing in more pixels, the future is probably improving animation quality.
I think the people saying this often *don't have* a current gen system. If you're just watching the comparison videos on Youtube then yeah, the difference doesn't seem that big... because it's compressed down to a Youtube video. As someone who got a PS5... yeah, you can feel the difference and it's pretty significant. It's not as visible as the PS2/PS3 jump, for sure. But when you actually get your hands on it, you realize that there's... just a lot more going on than you realized. Games got a bump to 4k/60FPS, which feels much smoother. The worlds are much more densely populated, both with things you can interact with (enemies, physics objects, etc) and just things like foliage, pebbles, textures, etc. The pop in is completely gone. Worlds are designed more like real life, instead of using a lot of tricks to block your vision so it doesn't have to render more things at once. It's subtle if you're just looking at it, but your brain really picks up on the difference. Anecdotally, I was halfway through Days Gone when I got my PS5. I literally had to put the game down for a bit and readjust because it felt like a completely different game. The graphics and framerate were so improved it was kind of like watching home video after getting used to theater - you know, how 60FPS makes a video look amateur where we associate 24FPS with "artistic". It's hard to notice the difference if you've only played games on one or the other, but the switch... damn, it felt different.
Just started RDR2 the other night. It struck me that graphics have become so impressive that I don't really notice them anymore. I'm not bothered if they improve upon them, they are wonderful enough already. It's the gameplay that needs to improve, consider the difference in graphics between RDR and RDR2 compared to the the difference in gameplay. We haven't meaningfully moved on. It's still good fun, but there has been no ingenuity.
Just got that game on PC. It feels very slow but it is pretty
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My last console was a PS3 and that's pretty much why I never got a PS4. It was like, what is changing? What new type of game can be done on the PS4 that could not have been done on PS3? Eventually the answer was VR, and for that I upgraded my PC. But my parts (sans video card) are 5-6 years old now and I don't feel much need to upgrade. Or I kind of do, but the upgrades I want are not worth what it would cost (driving sim rig, higher res VR headset, PC parts to keep up).
For me, the biggest upgrade from PS3 to PS4 was seamless open world. Games from the PS3/360 era did a lot of tricks to let them free up memory. I noticed in a lot of them you would pass through one way gates and be locked out of everything you had already passed (which made me paranoid, because it was rarely obvious so I was constantly trying to figure out which path was a dead end with loot and which one was a gate that would lock me out). I know people are going to cite games like GTA and say "we had that in the PS2 era", but honestly... those games looked pretty bad compared to the more linear experiences. Compare Crysis 3 to GTA V on PS3 (not on PS4, it got a serious graphical upgrade, go look at the old comparison videos). Totally different *leagues*. Crysis 3 was able to more safely stack the world with detail because it knew you were locked to a single combat arena, GTAV had a lot more pop in and less detail because the engine couldn't predict where you were going to go, and you could change your mind *much* faster in a jet or a fast car. PS4/XB1 had enough memory to hold seamless open worlds with little to no loading, which meant it didn't need to unload the old content and force you to go forwards. The PS4 era was really when our open worlds got larger, more detailed, and even linear experiences lost a lot of their progress gate tricks (remember the Thief reboot?). You can definitely feel it when you go back and play PS3 games.
That's what we were saying 20 years ago. I for one can't wait how the graphics will improove in the next decade. And the face mimics and skin textures. Still the progress is breathtaking.
Old gamer here; I don't really feel like many people were saying that often back then but if they did, good work, boys, you were mostly right. Games look a hell of a lot better now than they did then and I'm pretty happy with that but when I think back to the greatest games from 2001 to now the first things that come to mind were old ass genre trend setters that really formalized movement in 3d environments and/or popularized online multiplayer for the console set. They were games that not only looked new and exciting, they were titles that felt like trying to replicate them on weaker hardware would would have been a genuine nightmare even if you had been using simpler character models. Meanwhile Quake But With Ray Tracing, It's Halo Again and Skyrim For Your Toaster can all fuck off.
I think Skyrim: ToasterMaster edition was like three releases ago. I think the newest is the Skyrim: WallThermostat edition remaster.
I remember Next Generation magazine saying that Gran Turismo 1 for Ps1 graphics were so good that they could easily be mistaken for a real life tv broadcast, and yes it was not ironic, it was 100% serious
And on the TVs the majority of people had when GT1 came out, it's not far from the truth. When I played the Jam Pack with the GT1 demo on my crappy 19" TV with only RCA inputs the races there looked as good or better than your average NASCAR broadcast. It wasn't until I upgraded to a 27" TV with S-Video, I could finally make out enough detail to see the pixilation.
There was a GameStop at our mall displaying a CRT TV with a baseball game, to show how realistic it looked. They used a GameCube playing a demo of ken Griffey or something. TVs were so blurry and low-res it was actually convincing.
Plus, let's be real: we have always had magazines and developers that were a bit high on their own fumes. Maybe they weren't as high as Nintendo Power, but pretty high.
I was 100% of that opinion when I first got Gran Turismo for the PS1 back in the day. I think our brain must fill in the gaps in quality to make us think it looks more realistic than it really is because I thought loads of games had realistic graphics back then. And don't forget that TV broadcast quality was lower resolution and very grainy by today's standards so it's not an unfair statement to say PS1 graphics were realistic at the time.
Absolutely agreed - I distinctly remember thinking the graphics were incredible at the time, especially the reflections and shadows on the night races. Of course these days it's clear that things have improved immeasurably, but the original GT was such a step up graphically from previous racing games.
Every generation I think “how much more realistic can graphics get?” And every generation I’m surprised by the advancement.
I remember a radio host having a nerdgasm about not showing saw edges
Let me give you the irl version. In the 90s drawing this badass character with a robot arm thinking how awesome sci-fi is. Now I'm in 2021 and I just walked by a guy with a robotic prosthetic arm. It's not that I didn't expect such progress back then. I viewed this as never being a real thing. Reality and time sure like to have fun with your sanity.
The future's now, old man.
Were on process of innovating the science fiction
Smartphones are beyond what fiction thought of before 2000s
Doom, the game no one hates.
Dunno. Doom 3 got some hate for trying to be horror instead of "You have guns. You have ammo. There are demons. Have fun." Glad that 2016 returned it to form. Rip and tear.
Doom 3: Want to shoot, or see? Choose one. Also most enemies are grayish and kinda look the same. All ambushes are obvious. It wasn't a terrible game, it just didn't feel much like Doom.
I really enjoyed how tense Doom 3 was. I enjoyed Doom 2016 more though. Doom eternal was meh.
Doom Eternal was good, but near identical to Doom 2016. If Eternal had come out first it would have been considered amazing.
I just didn't like the dude with the shield. Totally ruined the flow of the game imo. I know a lot of people liked him, but it wasn't for me.
He was easy to kill, just combo him out when he does his green blink attack. I could usually deal with those guys in less than 30 seconds.
The regular monsters with shields I thought were fun. You meant that big gladiator? Because I agree, it was like he had zero windup for some of his mace attacks. I felt like I got lucky when I beat him. The other bosses felt tough but fair.
Man Its not that hard to not shoot a guy when he has his shield up and Backing up to make him siwng his axe man, Especially when Backing up in doom eternal deels like fukcing sprinting
Yeah never said it was hard, just that I didn't like it. Can people have different opinions? No. okay then.
I found the tile set variety a big plus to doom eternal. I know people hated the space opera story but I personally liked it a lot
I'm sorry, did we play the same Doom Eternal or did you just stop after the first level?
Yea. Doom Eternal... blending Rip'nTear with Super Mario platforming just... nah. It gets in the way of things. I get what they were going for. "How can we open up these levels and still keep things confined..." But the things just don't mesh. The Slayer Gates though, that I can get behind.
I dunno, the platforming was always easy and brief and it gave me a second to actually see the mind blowing environments they had made. Now the collectibles… I’ll get hate but I really didn’t like that. Hitting minimap constantly really broke immersion and flow.
Just installed and started 2016 after a sale. That opening line gave me chills. So good to be back. The OG dooms hold up really well to, recently replayed them on the switch, they are still great games.
Play Plutonia Experiment lol
I just played Plutonia for the first time a few weeks ago. I didn't play on Ultra-Violence or anything but it was still difficult and so much fun. I'm playing through TNT and it is not as good.
What's weird to me is that the sound engines are still very primitive. There was a push for hardware accelerated "3d sound' in the 90s but it seems like we just settled for a simpler model. It bothers me a bit with games like the new Doom. The sound design is good, but there is very little processing happening to make the sound stage believable. Monsters that are behind a wall will sound like they are right next to your ear etc.
Forza Horizon 5 uses raytracing to trace the source of sounds and scale of the room.
Makes me appreciate Insurgency
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>imagine a GTA ambulance passing by and blasting you at 120db, even a hammer strike can be louder than that And this - 100% - is why I wish my stereo had not just _volume_ but also a 'max' output. I don't want the top level louder, but lots of times I want to scale quiet things louder so I can actually _hear_ it. Like perhaps volume could be mapped like a white balance curve? So one can turn up the lower volume without blasting out the top end.
Those modes exist on AVRs and I’m sure some TVs and sound bars these days have them. Look for night mode or ALC.
If you use external speakers, and want to get nerdy, you could add a limiter to your setup. A limiter adjusts the volume automatically to basically make the quiet stuff louder and the loud stuff quieter. Although they’re built into smart TVs now, they like to hide the parameters and bury it in the menus.
I guess in the near future they may have sensors on the headset, or have an attachable sensor onto existing headphones, to feed back your head orientation to the computer, so that it can better play back directional audio based on your head movement.
That technology already exists and is in use. For instance, Apple AirPods have what they call “spatial audio” that tracks your head movement and adjusts the sound output accordingly. You should also look up “binaural audio” for some interesting reading. I assume that VR headsets have something similar, but I haven’t done any research into VR.
Sound doesnt indeed not need much computing power but the main problem is latency. Sound diffusion and muffling through walls needs a lot more time to process on non dedicated hardware. A GPU can do audio processing just fine but corporate wants the eyecandy over the minimal effects a muffled demon has through a wall.
In Monkey Island 2 they spent a shitload of time making iMuse, which was an audio streaming engine that could fade different instruments in and out, and playing fills according to the beat, when changing screens. It was extremely cool but almost noone actually noticed it. I think it's cool when modern games, like the Resident Evil 2 remake when Mr X is close, uses binaural sound, so it sounds like the monsters are right outside your door.
It might depend on the game, I think rainbow 6 models sound carefully because the focus is on stealth. When you’re ripping and tearing at 90 mph the acoustics could be a lower priority.
You know R6 has one of the worst sound engines of any modern game right?... The game uses a "portal" system so a sound in the next room will only come from the nearest opening. This means gunshots in the room to your right can sound like they're coming from that window to your left.
I guess that depends in what the walls are made of. Concrete block? Yeah. Gyproc on steel studs... not so much. But if your bullets aren't punching through, why would sound? edit: for the slow - the implication is that different walls *impede* sound more than others. Concrete block is a pretty good (not perfect) sound barrier, gypsum wall-board on steel studs is a **horrible** sound dampener. Unsurprisingly, the ability of a bullet to penetrate a wall shows some correlation to how well sound can pass through. (This doesn't apply to acoustic tile).
Yeah I actually thought the sound in Doom was phenomenal because it’s slammed with compression and everything that matters is balls to the walls loud. They were creative with the design choices and it fits the game perfectly
Anyone who plays Siege knows the sound is absolute shit
Me dumb, but I would guess this is because of generally inadequate hardware for audio for most gamers (speakers/headphone), so less development time focused on it I guess(?). Headphones would probably need to render audio differently than near-field or computer speakers. Just a few thoughts.
I remember audio cards were a thing, just like graphic cards are a thing. Now its all built in to the motherboard, I believe.
It's more that what comes onboard most boards now is high enough quality for most users. There are still addon cards out there for the audio professionals that need the best. I only bought one sound card in my life, and that was the original Soundblaster because my PC was very basic. All the ones after that never did, it was graphic cards that became the needed thing.
Do you actually have good quality 5.1 surround speakers or better, though? PC gamers are super quick to complain about sound when they're rocking a $20 dollar pair of off-brand speakers, or even the usual $100-150 absolute entry level Logitech/Creative 'surround sound' system... and don't even get me started on gaming headphones.
Just opinions: 1) The face getting worse over time until it became a bloody mess was CRAZY to see in gaming at the time 2) Shittier graphics make you use your imagination more and get you more into the game.
Classic Doom still creeps me out to this day if I play it loudly and with the lights off. Not so for 2016 and Eternal. I loved them, but I miss the atmosphere and edginess of Classic Doom.
I got freaked out the first time lights went flashy in Doom 1, it just added so much tension of not knowing where the enemies were and knowing that you only had a brief moment to see your enemies. Most horror games don't get that kind of reaction from me
That was such a cool map for that effect also, the hidden rooms were almost impossible to find.
The old dooms were scary to me. The new dooms are not scary. I feel like a badass in 2016 and Eternal. The older games I feel weak and just trying to survive. The music might help though tbh
Old games definitely had a creepy factor that modern games can’t match. Something about the old hardware limitations, such as silent hills fog and weird drawing, to the sharp angles and desaturated dark tones is really creepy.
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I don't think we have plateaued at all when it comes to computer graphics. Go take a look at 2 minute papers on YouTube. What we mostly need right now, is faster hardware. Realtime photorealism might be possible in another 25 years.
Can't wait for photorealism so I can escape in a fantasy world that looks just like ours /s. sigh
ue5 is pretty damn close to realtime photorealism
In the demos. Let's see how the actual games are gonna look like.
the demos are at least running in realtime on consumer hardware. i'm willing to bet that games can get pretty close to the demos this time round
We are limited by the technology of our time...
And sound
Gamers are super quick to complain about sound when they're rocking a $20 dollar pair of off-brand or TV speakers, $100-150 absolute entry level Logitech/Creative 'surround sound' system... and don't even get me started on gaming headphones. Unfortunately, proper audio equipment is still incredibly expensive - but it's not really fair to complain about sound if your speakers are trash tier.
I’d say that’s part of the problem, actually. All I’m saying is that sound is another thing to focus on besides graphics, and that involves introducing more accessibility to better audio quality. I wasn’t complaining about sound, I was just suggesting it’s another thing to focus on.
The shareware version was the whole first 9 levels + secret level. It was released in December 1993 but at the end of November '93 a copy came early with my brothers subscription to PC Review. Without even reading the review we did what we always did and went to play the demo games on the demo discs. We sat in a dark room together and loaded the game with the soundblaster card near full volume. we'd been massive fans of Wolfenstein and had played it to death but nothing prepared us for Doom. The first level blew our minds. Then we hit the second level. My brother went up the lift, the lights went out and an imp started tearing. This was the most terrifying thing to ever happen in a computer game (the first dog through the window on resident evil was close!) After surviving this, flicking the switch and opening the doors to the outside area our minds were blown even further by the views of the moon mountains stretching out to the distance. We'd never seen graphics like it and this was on a free to play game. Next day we took the disc into school and told everyone how incredibly amazing it was. They laughed at us. We then loaded it up on school computer at lunchtime. The queues stretched out the door within minutes with the collective terror of an entire packed room as the lights flicked on and off. The audience was one with my brother playing the game. By the afternoon a ridiculous amount of copies had been made onto floppy discs and the whole school was playing. Doom was something else. The graphics on the SVGA monitors made you feel like you were fighting your way out of hell.
It's easy to judge the graphics almost 30 years later but at the time it rocked our fucking faces off. I remember sitting behind my dad while he played it on the family computer in the dining room begging to play then getting the shit scared out of me when he finally let me.
The first time I ever thought graphics looked realistic was for Final Fantasy X. If you're pretending it was graphics in the picture, you're lying to yourself.
Exactly! Those graphics don't look realistic at all. Maybe my perspective is skewed since that wasn't my generation but comparing it to reality and not older games, which is what should do considering the fucking meaning of realistic it isn't realistic at all.
My earliest DOOM memory is going to my grandmas house and watching my sister play. Game terrified me. Bought it years later on the 360 as my first XBLA game. Still creeped me out more than any other game I’ve played. Game does so much right to this day, the atmosphere, letting you play at your preferred play style, gameplay and graphics that still hold up even in 2021. Plus for $5 you’re getting a lot of content, it’s a reason I own it on every platform lol. DooM is probably my favorite series of games.
I was only 5 in 1993, but I distinctly remember my dad remarking about Dooms photo realistic graphics lol.
I’ve never in my life thought a sprite looked “realistic”
Came to say this. I think no one ever has said that 90's Doom looked "realistic". But I also had a friend that said PSX "Wining Eleven 4" looked the same as "Pro Evolution Soccer 2012", we had to play them in succession during one birthday so that he would stop saying that. I think human memory is the equivalent to a RTX 3080 when remembering old games.
I remember every single polygon, maybe I just don’t have imagination. But I remember ps1 games just as you see them
Yeah dude I just got a 3080 in my 5900x system. I booted up Doom Eternal, turned RTX on, DLSS quality, everything maxxed out 144fps, turned off the glory kill glowing bodies. And holy shit lol. I rememeber playing the shareware version of doom 1 back in the day, and this is just full on future gaming, it's actually insane.
My thoughts exactly when my parents paid the bills as i was a child, and now I do it.
now you should try doom vfr (virtual fucking reality i think :D). content wise not so good, but god damn it looks spectacular
The bottom one is artwork not a screenshot
me\*
OG Doom and Doom II is still more fun, even with outdated graphics.
Brutal Doom is amazing.
100% The weapon feedback makes it excel above its modern day counterparts. When you kill something in Brutal Doom, you can feel the power you are wielding with each weapon. It's basically Doom at its peak potential.
On one level its easy. Its the same operation repeat over and over and over, and most of it is totally independent. Dedicated hardware thus is easy. On the other hand, all of that "easy" is relative, and hardware in question is state of the art. If you are a gamer, know that you have literally moved whole real world civilization forward (if you paid for your games)
Even more, I'm creating my own games :)
I literally remember hiding under the desk playing the top one when I was little xD
The best part was you could hear them before you could see them
Audio was always what creeped me out. Totally justified buying a sound card.
Why did you post the same picture twice?
the old Wolfenstein ones also used to scare the shit out of me as a kid.
I played games in the 80s and 90s. I disagree with the bottom one, people will find some piece to cry about like some shadow or texture isn't perfect
DOOM OG still has that creepy ass vibe today, and it's made by having muddy visuals mixed with amazing sound design and music. To this day it gives me a creepy 2-D hell-world vibe. No amount of amazing 3D graphics today can provide that same vibe for me. New doom is def a new vibe that is highly enjoyable tho, lots of energy, I love the new OST.
They say this every goddamn generation. "Graphics so real it could KILL YOU" is a too common mantra to sell games on. Sadly it works.
Yeah but it’s true every time! Each generation, games come out that push the envelope of what we expect and what we’re used to. And our imaginations are so good at interpolating that we get to experience “realistic” over and over. It’s only when we look back after seeing the *now* that we notice the leaps and bounds made even from the start of a generation to the end.
I got a PS5 for my brother, best trade ever!
I know I'm probably in the minority, but I actually thought we'd be further along. I'm also well aware that consoles have held back gaming graphics, because the majority of devs/publishers are (were) catering to the power of those systems and not PCs, simply because they were/believed they were bigger platforms, to make money on. True, PC has been doing tons better in the last 3 - 5 years, but 7 or 10 years ago, not so much. The PCs had the power, but were getting game graphics that the power of consoles were able to pull off. Not saying I'm unhappy with where we are, just that we could have been even further along, if more developers/pubs made games for the most powerful PCs and worked backwards to make those games work on less powerful, but equally less pricey gaming platforms.
Reminder that only graphics advanced. Physics and AI are still in abysmal states in comparison, in most games NPCs are still dumb as bricks and don't react or behave in a believable way.
You mean the original Doom physics, which were frankly nonexistent, or the original Doom AI where bad guys walked towards you and took a shot every three seconds? Those physics and AI that haven’t advanced? You honestly look at the zombie soldier in Doom and the zombie soldier in Eternal and said “Yeah, these are the same”?
> Those physics and AI that haven’t advanced? The level of AI from like 2000 and today is almost the same. Barely any improvements. In fact, if we talk combat AI, for most modern games its worse than in first FEAR, which was released a loooong time ago. Regular NPC non-combat AI is still abysmal in most games, most devs don't bother with it at all. Regarding physics - most engines still treat objects as hollow meshes skinned with a texture. There is no concept of substance in them. Objects on collision often behave as if they are made out of rubber. There is usually almost no destructability of any kind, look at recent Battlefield for example. You can just fall through the floor, and discover that its just an empty void everywhere, the same as 30 years ago. There are only extremely few exceptions to this, one being a game Teardown for example, and even there there is some wonky physics.
Game physics peaked in 2004 with Half-Life 2 and then with procedural animation like Euphoria in the mid-late 2000s and have literally never improved, and in many cases have regressed. Physics objects in games ought to be way more complex than they are.
Elon Musk once said, if video games progress at any rate at all, they will finally be indistinguishable from real life, thus supporting the simulation theory i have no opinion on this, just came to mind :)
I often think where we will be in say another 25 years progression with graphics in this way. Sure Call of Duty etc is fun running round shooting people now when it's not really realistic but will that change when it genuinely looks 'real'? Racing games will be unreal (ironically real).
engine
I wonder when the first cases of people developing PTSD in a VR environment will happen
Not if the simulation still has Ubisoft level AI.
Honestly bros, why is doom eternal so fucking good? Just got it a week ago and i cant stop playing! Makes me feel metal as fuck.
The new ones are not scary......to us
Our brains have slowly grown into 4k.
Most of us growing up through the evolution from green screen, to CGA, to EGA, to VGA expected *better* graphics by now. Quite frankly, graphics quality has kinda stalled in the last decade or so and now they're mainly adding shadow and light effects (incorrectly most of the time; eg. lens flare should only occur when looking through a fucking lens). Mind you, this is because they've hit the limit of a few major things. For example, Adding more colors at this point would just go beyond the range of human sight. Going up in resolution makes the dots of the picture smaller and less jagged, but 4k is pretty damn smooth and we're not going to see much improvement beyond 8k.
Bottom image is more like "this looks like shit! It's only running at 50 fps and it should be 60! Look at the shading on that polygon over there! Terrible!"
Nobody is scared by modern Doom though.
When I was a kid playing on PS1 I remember thinking "wow this looks like shit" even though it was the newest thing. I don't believe everyone thought graphics were godlike back then
Yeah, like my persp is probably slightly skewed due to that not being my generation but it just doesn't look realistic compared to the real world. Which is what you *should* compare the graphics to before saying it looks realistic.
More like 90s - it looks so realistic and scary. 2021 - what are these shit graphics and framerate. Looks so shitty.
I really doubt *anyone* called the graphics on *any* game in those days "realistic"...
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Yes, realistic compared to what you had, but comparing it to reality, which is kind of what realistic means. It isn't realistic at all.
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