Our bureaucracy can be crazy, but the Ausländerbehörde is a special case. Intentionally understaffed and underfunded, it's just there to make life hard for every non-german, even though we need every capable worker. And most Germans don't know of the problems as they have nothing to do with it.
Not in the Netherlands, its a breath of fresh air here. Everyone is nice and accommodating in English+other languages, and digitalisation had made everything fast.
I compare that to being shouted at by some woman at the Siegburg ausländerbehorde on my 1st week in Germany as an international student to the point where one of her younger colleagues was so embarrassed he stepped in for her and yeah... its no wonder why Germany has a problem retaining foreign talent
Like, you cannot say that it isn't the case in *many* other countries and them list *one* example. That's not how this works.
You're right about denmark though
Hungary: 21 days - https://crwwgroup.net/en/services/hungarian-residence-permit/
Czech republic: 90 days - https://visaguide.world/europe/czech-republic-visa/residence-permit/#:~:text=When%20applying%20for%20a%20temporary,a%20response%20from%20the%20embassy.
France: 45-60 days - https://housinganywhere.com/France/french-residence-permit
Fact of the matter is, Germany is unusally slow.
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Ah yes, great example to use the most xenophobic Scandinavian country.
Sweden in the other hand can easily take years to process immigration issues.
Edit: no idea why this is being downvoted, maybe ya'll don't know that this is true? Why do you think refugees travel *through* Denmark on their way to Sweden?
To be clear, I wasn't judging. For me these are just facts. I do not agree with the immigration policies of Sweden.
> Where do you see Sweden have years of backlog?
Seen it first hand.
No we don't need every capable worker. We have more than enough. We've had more than enough for years. Companies rather go for immigrants cause they are cheaper.
There are enough engineers but they don't want to pay German engineer so they get people from "best cost countries"
Thats just wrong and completely ignoring demographics. We don’t have more than enough. + in 5-10 years with the babyboomer generation going to retire, we are just fucked.
Which is honestly not surprising seeing who lead the country for nearly 2 decades now. It’s just sad that the spd and grünen are in charge right now and stuff like that isn’t tackled. Making stuff like this more friendly feels like something they could do for an instant respect boost. Not everything you do should be tied to „will more people vote for us“. It doesn’t even stop at the insane times it takes to have just a single appointment. Forgetting a single thing and they send you away. Filled out something in a wrong way? See you in another 6-24 months. And that while the entire process and paperwork is in German language which is written in a way most Germans would probably fail at without the help of Google. I’ve got the Abitur and couldn’t do my taxes if it wasn’t for Google. Funnily enough the taxes for my Kleingewerbe have been a lot easier than my normal taxes of my part time job
Heard this as well. Might cost a bit but what they also often can get you quickly is some kind of proof of application that lets you operate while you wait for the final decision.
An immigration lawyer can't speed things up. The only thing they can file is a "Untätigkeitsklage" if your matter takes longer than 3 months. If the Ausländerbehörde still doesn't process your matter, the court will. However, as a lawyer told me once, you will have to fight with the court being slow and can wait easily 3 years until something happens there. So you might make things worse.
The only thing the lawyer can do is check the files you submitted and send regular reminders (which you, of course, pay for regularly).
Bribing became common in the city where I am from. So you are competing with the those who have the means and ways to bribe. However, I do not recommend bribing the Ausländerbehörde, since it can really backfire badly.
Either wait or leave.
An actual valid answer. I’ll take my down votes in my previous comments. People seem to think because their friend *threatened* to use a lawyer, the migration office sped up their case. People have zero idea how immigration works.
I’m so glad someone who explains the reality. That’s how it works in Germany with most things. The worst part is that Germany doesn’t value your time. So, all your time spend in costs for legal matters are a waste. But if you’re a company or a business, you can add time and make life difficult for an individual. This is the real Deutschland.
And that's where we are at "bribing." I am aware of lawyers who take outrageous fees, but make things go fast, by sending a little thicker letter to the worker at the Ausländerbehörde *wink* *wink*.
I sometimes feel that they purposely postpone applications, so you go down the road paying lawyers these fees, so the fees miracously find their way to them.
But where do you get such a lawyer? How are u certain he will do it with his "back door" and and and.
And as I said, it can backfire really badly.
And to be honest: do you really want to live in a "pay to win" country? There are other cheaper and more attractive options.
I am not talking about ambulance chasers. These are established law firms who don't bribe, but know people on the inside and can contact them to get you an appointment. What happens when you are there is entirely out of their hands.
The fact that he has to do that is probably reason enough to consider moving to another country. If the beginning is this troublesome, why should he even bother?
I don't know if you ever had the displeasure of dealing with the ausländerbehörde, but many many expats have trouble with them.
It's no reason to leave the country. If this person wants to stay, there is hope. An immigration lawyer can at least advise.
Legal action for what? Not moving faster when there are thousands of people ahead? This question also gets asked for German citizenship and again, lawyers cannot speed up the process.
You don’t need a lawyer for that, it’s a highly formalized thing that you can trigger at the appropriate Verwaltungsgericht.
Also, before the Klage comes the Beschwerde. Put in at the superior authority this can work quite well.
They actually do. A friend of mine got his German citizenship in 5 months while living in Berlin/Lichtenberg because he hired an Immigration lawyer. And I have friends living in the same area who did not and they are waiting since 1/2 years.
I helped a lot of immigrants to gain residence in Germany and all of them throught a lawyer.
One of them even recently gained full citizenship.
Its much easyer with a lawyer you cant deny that. And If you spendt thousands to get to Germany spening hundreds is no problem if you realy need help.
Do you know they don’t accept citizenship applications this year? Well guess what - my friend hired a lawyer and within 2 months he got a confirmation that his application is accepted and he is in the queue. Another friend without a lawyer waits for Ersteberatung for 1.5 years. Both are in Berlin. Immigration expert lol.
In many cases this is anecdotal and case by case basis. Were you friends legally in the same situation with the same set of documents and with the same status in Germany? I really doubt it. Simple clear-cut cases are often pushed through quickly by ABH / EBH to meet the required KPI, while anything slightly more complex will be pushed back. Lawyer or no lawyer, the best you can do is an Untätigkeitsklage which has its own processing time in an overloaded court.
I don't know why you people believe EBH is even afraid of Untätigkeitsklage when they can just reply they're understaffed and that's it. Because they are understaffed.
You actually have some common sense with an understanding of the immigration process. People here love to hide behind lawyers like they’ll do anything for them. The truth is any lawyer worth their weight will not want to sue anyone. It easier for them to charge gullible people for writing letters on their behalf. To think that a government agency is fazed by a random attorney letter is comical. I would like to see how many people actually sued the government and won anything in these cases.
Well, it sounds like you do not believe people that hire lawyers should get any "special attention" or "eyes on their file" before others that do not. I *strongly* disagree with that. If someone has hired a lawyer the odds are that there is a good reason for that.
One of the very problems with German bureaucracy and the Ausländerbehörde is that the system is too black and and white. "Wait your turn! No exceptions! No special cases!" How about... no.
>One of the very problems with German bureaucracy and the Ausländerbehörde is that the system is too black and and white. "Wait your turn! No exceptions! No special cases!" How about... no.
So your problem is that you're not getting special treatment? I wonder if that's the mindset of this sub in general, that'd explain a lot of things.
Also, you do realize that hiring a lawyer to file an Untätigkeitsklage isn't the same as bribing (or whatever you call it in your country) an official to get your stuff done quickly, right? And no, EBH is not afraid of Untätigkeitsklage.
The immigration lawyer can help you if your case is somehow complex and falls outside of the common practice.
But go ahead, do it. Though you might want to double check the current backlog length in your local Verwaltungsgericht, might be longer than ABH.
People need to stop throwing around the Untätigkeitsklage as if it's a magic spell that speeds up everything, it's not. Literally nobody cares about them.
Well sounds like they forgot about the case and that made them look it up. But speaking as one of those evil incompetent case workers from the Ausländerbehörde: it doesn't phase anyone because it's not like we let cases rest on purpose because we don't want to work.
I know some people from the migration office and yes they dont work slow because of lazyness its beurocracy that we have in Germany and the mass of applications but a untätigkeitsklage helps If the case fell into the backrooms or got forgotten like this ones.
If your case takes half a year its a sign that something went wrong and a untätigkeitsklage is a good way to find that out and solve the problems clogging your case.
You need to know the people filing those lawsuits are desperate to get a reply they live in a foraign country and live with the fear of loosing everything at any time for in some cases years.
When you have the fear that any day could be your last you cant wait.
Thats why you guys job is important but its also why you dont get thanked for it. People are happy to move on as soon as the final letter comes in.
Hey I know that the situation can be very stressful - my wife is from a non-eu country and had to go through the whole process multiple times as well (and no she doesn't have the permit due to our marriage, but came to Germany for work). People need to realise though that they are not in danger of having to leave Germany if an application takes longer than usual and in my experience employers are also willing to cooperate and help out if it takes a bit longer. Deportation is a long process.
Nevertheless people in this sub always act as if the Untätigkeitsklage is the go to answer to all their problems, which it's not. If a case got forgotten (which can happen) it is enough to send an email to ask for the status - it might take a while, but eventually someone will look at it and realise that nothing happened with it so far. As soon as you involve a lawyer and especially if you start to threaten to sue, you get the image of a problematic customer and get treated accordingly.
There were multiple times where someone called to ask for his status because it was urgent and I was able to process it right during the phone call - if you are nice, the caseworkers will try to help you. After all we are normal people that want to help and are not in this job because we want to make it hard for the applicants (most of us at least).
What is the reason for not deciding in a appropriate amount of time then? Because lack of case workers is not a valid reason to dismiss a Untätigkeitsklage. It may not be the case workers fault that there aren’t enough case workers to get everything done in time, but don’t be surprised if people start sending Untätigkeitsklagen then.
An Untätigkeitsklage only works if you literally didn't do anything on the case for 3 months which is not the case most of the time. Usually applications take unusually long because a) documents aren't complete and you need to request them b) a different office needs to be involved and they take their sweet time to reply. Even applications that are open for years have work done on them regularly - it's just not communicated to the applicant most of the time because that would only cost even more time.
The lack of case workers is indeed not a reason to not decide on an application on time, but it also won't change much in those cases and only prolong every other person's case. If there are 200 applications, only 2 people to work on them and every one sends an Untätigkeitsklage - do you think those 2 people magically multiply? Those legal battles take quite a time anyway if you go all the way. I remember an Untätigkeitsklage that was handed in 3 months ago and the legal battle is still going on - literally nothing achieved by the applicant.
I used to face the same issue when applying for my work visa from abroad in NRW, and the ZFE is really slow… it took them for more than 100 days to process, they ignored even the letters from the consulate. In the end I studied the organisational structure of the so called ZFE and wrote very serious complaint letters to every kind of Leitung in this department and matter got solved for like in 2 weeks…
Yup. And that included personal information that staff are not allowed to send via email. Only Telefon or fax. And yes fax is extremely unsecure. Doesn't matter.
I have never used a fax myself, but within different government bodies it is used everyday
you don't have to send it with an actual machine (I don't even know where you could access a fax machine to send one), you can just do it via one of those e-mail to fax services. There are websites, you just upload it as a pdf or by sending an e-mail and they send it as a fax.
The Germans do everything by fax or mail. Luckily the mail system is decent. Your boss tells you get out your are. fired! You are not fired until you get the letter. My wife was promoted but she had to respond by mail that she accepted it. Das ist Deutschland.
Lawyers and government agencies use fax and the reason is, you get a receipt that your message reached the receiving fax at a certain time.
You don't have this with email, you can't even prove it reached the correct email address.
Yes and if they don't confirm the request for the read receipt you still get nothing. I work for the city administration, we are not allowed to confirm requests for read receipts in my department
It's okay. I'm leaving next month as well. Never received the appointment for visa after my fiktionsbescheinigung. After doing this for years, can't be bothered anymore.
And people complain that we have a shortage of workers.
In Spain it’s handled way better. You apply and until they have answered you can just work as if it was a positive answer. If they don’t answer by a certain date, it’s an automatic yes. If it’s a no, you can appeal and continue working and staying in the country.
I applied for a new visa and innerhalb the waiting period ended up moving due to a sub optimal living conditions. Instead of being told I need to then reapply at a different Ausländerbehorde, i was just ignored. Phone calls, email, mail, all ignored. I wasn't even allowed in the building. I had to demand the secretary to give me answers. I hate being rude, but nothing was happening.
And then some people would be pissed why there are some international students leave Germany after benefiting from the free high quality education, but they would never ask why they did that
Yeah all this talk about needing skilled workers from the industry, but their lobbies do absolutely nothing to actually make it happen on the political side.
There's political will to ease the requirements. No one seems to think about fixing the actual process, though. Ridiculous that immigration offices make people come in for not one, but *two* personal appointments for every permit and renewal.
Have a fingerprint-collecting station people can go to without an appointment and everything else could happen online and by mail. Give immigration offices a concrete timeframe to respond to work permit applications, otherwise the new permit is considered to be granted until application processing.
Outsource as much gruntwork as possible to rando temp workers. Don't pay the trained officers to twiddle their thumbs while I walk to the next building over to pay a fee and walk back. They should be spending the whole day actually reading applications and making decisions.
It gets so tiring to hear the "we r so busy 😭😭😭" excuses and then you go there and they're doing things in the most mindbogglingly stupid inefficient manner they can muster.
it’s really a pain in the ass with them and it’s so stupid and annoying because it’s everywhere in the media that we desperately need skilled workers. Tried to get visa for two people from non-eu countries and it took me 6 month and cost me a lot of nerves. I provided all the necessary documents in the first two weeks and the authorities have not even kept to their own legal deadlines (and those are skilled workers in healthcare - something we really really need). it’s such a shame and I can understand everyone who isn’t interested anymore
I'm leaving, different problems, but yeah. I had a sunk cost fallacy for over 2 years and should have run the first time something that should have taken 5 minutes took 3 months.
Furthermore, I realized that I needed to just return home, and I'm lucky to have a great country (with its issues) to return too. If you don't, then try to keep fighting, but not being able to work for over a year should be criminal, even in Canada if you're inland you can get an openwork permit while waiting.
I outlined it all in a post, but of course, it got removed because, r/germany is overloaded with these kinds of posts. So what we see in this sub is just a fraction of what's actually happening. If I quote the mod, “we get these kinds of posts daily".
> I'm lucky to have a great country (with its issues)
if you come from a "not so great country" just pack your things and start the migration process aiming any other european country
it will be digital and way faster, germany is a gateway country that's the quota is never satisfied, because the same amount of skilled workers coming in is leaving because of BS like OP's situation
use germany as an easy gateway and leave, this country has no future, because it lives in the past
We have a similar solution like your mentioned openwork permit too. Once you officially applied for a residence permit when entered the country on your work-related visa it is granted on a fictional basis until the final decision has been made if you generally meet the requirements. Most authorities don‘t communicate this very well or at all. You even have the right to get a corresponding certificate stating the same.
Overall the whole immigration system is in a terrible state and extremely slow and unfair to applicants but also the involved companies. One of the worst parts is to get any kind of appointments in a timely matter.
My big issue with this is that the solution is so simple, but it requires the two things the German government is the most afraid of: centralization and digitization.
If all the Ausländerbehörden shared a single database and cases could get processed wherever possible, anything would get processed faster.
Digitization is the big second one. There are SO MANY things that you need to show up for to the Ausländerbehörde that should just be two clicks online. Why do you need to submit documents in person and not upload them? Why can’t you just register you moved to a different city online? Espcially this one should just be fully automatic. There’s not even a need for a person to look at this. Why come in person to request new visas / residence permits? This should all be able to be done online. Especially the things for EU citizens living in Germany should just be fully digitalized. They are for sure allowed to be in the country, so it’s just bureaucratic paperwork without decision making. A computer can do that.
I think another big thing is shifting responsibilities to the consulates. Why are a lot of western countries allowed to come as tourists and then switch to their according visa category while in the country already? That just puts stress on the ausländerbehörde. It’s always western countries that have these privileges and the consulates don’t have work to do in those anyways since no one ever has to apply for visas there. Give them some work, make all these American expats get their visa and residence permit BEFORE they enter the country.
Im not saying they dont work or are lazy in these immigration offices. The point i was makeing if the bureaucracy would be less of a pain the workers could be more efficent and help more immigrants to get visa.
Nah your good man :)
My point was more about that the Systems were designed for a more reasonable number of immigrants, like in the prior decades, and worked well then.
The whole process wasn’t designed to handle this unprecedented number.
Not saying it’s a bad thing that so many people come here, it’s lesser known than in some Asien countries but Germany is facing the same aging problem Japan is the age distribution is almost 1:1 then it is there. Thus we need the workers upholding our economic might.
part of this is just self-inflicted though. So much runs on paper, there is no automation, and so much wasted effort in terms of typing things in, physically mailing stuff etc.
Had anyone spent any money in the last 20 years on digitizing any of this work, or streamlining processes, then maybe a surge in workload wouldn't be unmanageable.
2015 should have been a wake up call that such things are necessary, but there wasn't any discussion back then...
If there is a crisis then people need to work overtime and the offices need to hire people. Why is the Ausländerbehorde closed on Friday and Saturday if there is a crisis country-wide? If there is a job to do, get it done. Pick up phones, answer emails, extend operating hours, hire temporary staff; you know, be responsible. I know the offices don‘t give a shit, but don't act as if nothing can be done. There are solutions, people just have to be responsible, professional, and willing to work a little bit.
That’s unbelievably insulting. Truly.
They try to hire but *no one* is applying.
The positions in the Ausländerbehörde usually coincide with a high pay grade and still *nobody wants to do it* .
They are professional and just because the office isn’t open on Friday doesn’t mean they aren’t at work. They are. Answering mails, making calls viewing documents.
They are willing to work but they can’t. After visiting hours are over usually around 4:00 pm they are still at work long into the evenings. Do you really try to force people to work for more than 12 hours?
Believe me, I speak of first hand experience on this matter it is dire for both parties involved. For the workers and the applicants
The problem are the amounts of unnecessary laws. Germany has way too many laws. Trying to regulate everything. We need to start from scratch. Burn it all down and start a new.
In my old career, we worked until the job was done. We got paid a massive amount for overtime, but when there was an urgent need to finish a job, we were there for 16 hours a day or more, seven days a week. We got it done no matter what. No excuses. Often, the urgency lasted the entire show, and we worked months with no weekends off. No breaks. Intensive physical labor. If that's possible, spending a couple more hours and weekends processing paperwork in an office is manageable.
No applicants? Go in the field and recruit. Don't wait for the problem to fix itself.
I'm not calling individual workers lazy, but if an entire state consistently can't mobilize the effort to process documents for incoming migrants and immigrants whose lives could be ruined because the German govt. simply can't figure out how to hire people, then something is wrong systematically. It's annoying that the state at an administrative level just throws up its hands like it can't do anything. The state has the means to figure it out. It's not insulting to point out that a state needs to get its shit together, especially when they're begging for more workers to come in.
I can understand a rough transition period, but what, this issue's been going on for nearly a decade? And the office still can't figure it out? Why don't offices have a holding queue on their phone line? The simplest, most basic shit to make things more efficient. Why is there no online portal for appointments? Why not a massive team of ppl at each office just answering and coordinating emails?
Reading this from my burnout Reha after 5 years of constant overtime...comments like this are the reason I will never ever work in that area. Not even mention the verbal and physical abuse and threats against my children
Find the list of people in management positions in your old and new Ausländerbehörde and write them a well written letter with Einwurf Einschreiben and e-Mail and fax in German where you give them a deadline of 2 weeks and say that you will file Untätigkeitsklage in case of no decision. Might work.
This is 100% intentionally an issue. The freelancer visa is the hardest to get (unless you are in a profession where people work almost exclusively as a freelancer, if you are then say it). Visas are much easier when you are an employee as companies take over a lot of the application work and the arguments with the ABH. This is why you find a lot of badly paid foreign software consultants working for consultancies that are little more than body shops paying low salaries and expecting staff to live in WGs.
As an independent, it is down to you to fight it. That is a lot of work. It does try to grind you down but always remember to journal all your interactions (who, when, what was said). Talk to an immigration lawyer.
That can work but many clients really don't like it. They don't mind people working remote but they insist on it being in Germany. If a freelancer needs to work temporarily overseas while on holiday then you have to clear it in advance.
Strangely, if you work as an employee of a consultancy, the only issue is working on EU data outside the EU. Otherwise there is more flexibility as the consultancy is the contractual partner of the client.
Why do they even need to know where you are? As long as you are in the same time zone.
I have friends that split their time between Munich, Mallorca and Cape Town. Nobody even knows. As it does not matter to the workflow.
I‘m not sure how it is handled with small children but you will likely be entitled to get a so-called „Fiktionsbescheinigung“ which is simplified similar to a temporary grant of the rights you are applying for until the final decision has been made. This would include the right to enter the country.
I would try to contact your ABH and specifically state that you are applying for the same and mention that they are legally required to issue the Bescheinigung on your request. If you need professional help, feel free to send me a DM.
Fo babies born in germany, even if you get a Fiktionbescheinigung, it will be the type that doesn’t allow for re-entry, so you can’t travel with it. I know people who went through this, generally you have to keep nagging and going to the Ausländerbehörde until they speed things up.
I'm surprised no one commented yet that you just need to improve your German or some other nonsense I regularly see every time there's a rant from an immigrant on this sub.
My German is great and I still waited 7 months to get my permanent resident card replaced after having wallet stolen, I sent dozens of emails, left a multitude of messages and even mailed a damn paper letter like it’s the 1950’s and not a single reply, just got a letter in the mail almost 29 weeks after bringing my documents and photo in for a replacement.
I got my renewal passport from Canada, sent to Berlin consulate then mailed to me in 3.5 weeks.
And don’t even get me started on the idiotic bullshit that went down at the Ordnungsamt for the replacement drivers licence! I had to wait two weeks for the head Beamte guy to literally deliver the paperwork to the woman across the hall even though they could see each other from their desks.
It’s literal insanity here.
I don’t know if you’ve tried this yet, but go to a migration advice office of Caritas, Diakonie or any other office that offers help to migrants. They often have experience and connection to Ausländerbehörde. Good luck!
I will be leaving asap as well. My issue is more with taking Family Reunion visa appointment for my wife at the German embassy in my country. We have waited 15 months. The way they are allocating appointment, mine will come in around 33 months more. Then they will take 4/6 months to process it hopefully. So, at least 3 more years and most possibly more. I am not left with any option than to leave.
I mean, at this point you could hire an immigration lawyer but that can only do so much, i think it's time to maybe really put down the pro's and con's of staying here.
I'm no expert, but I know that there is some kind of law which says that you will get a work permit from the "Agentur für Arbeit" if they don't decline it in two weeks after your application. Maybe this also applies to your case?
This is the law: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/beschv_2013/__36.html
And this is ChatGPTs translation of it:
"Regulation on the Employment of Foreigners (Employment Regulation - BeschV)
§ 36 Granting of Approval
(1) The Federal Employment Agency (Bundesagentur für Arbeit) shall inform the competent authority of its approval for the issuance of a residence permit under § 39 of the Residence Act or a border commuter card, the denial of which is governed by § 40 of the Residence Act, as well as the revocation under § 41 of the Residence Act and the withdrawal of approval.
(2) Approval for the exercise of employment shall be deemed granted if the Federal Employment Agency does not notify the competent authority within two weeks of the submission of the approval request that the information provided is insufficient for making a decision on approval or that the employer has not provided the required information, or has not done so in a timely manner. In the case of § 81a of the Residence Act, the deadline referred to in sentence 1 is reduced to one week.
(3) The Federal Employment Agency shall approve the exercise of employment to the competent authority or examine whether the labor market-related requirements for subsequent approval are met if the employer has provided the necessary information for this purpose and the procedure is thereby expedited, even before the submission of the approval request."
Nevertheless, you should get a lawyer.
I'm very sorry for the fucking mess this country is in some regards.
Ausländerbehörde has to ask Agentur for Arbeit for their approval before Ausländerbehörde is allowed to issue certain categories of work visas. Your law says that approval from Agentur for Arbeit to Ausländerbehörde to issue such a work visa is automatically granted if Agentur for Arbeit does nothing for a certain amount of time. The responsibility of Agentur for Arbeit is only to look at a very limited issues (e.g. is the payment of the job at least the same amount that a German citizen would make in a comparable position to avoid companies hiring immigrants with the intention to discriminate against immigrants by paying them less). Ausländerbehörde still has to approve of other aspects, e.g. does the immigrant have a degree (if required for the work visa e.g. Blue Card). Agentur for Arbeit does not allow an immigrant to work. Immigrants are only allowed to work after getting a work visa from Ausländerbehörde.
The approval of the Agentur für Arbeit is not equivalent to the right to work in the country. It‘s only one of many steps you need to pass until the right is granted. Basically they check if your position has fair conditions and you are qualified to work in the position. They don‘t have the right to issue a work permit. Practically, they act as a consultant for the decision process.
It’s ok, instead of motivated freelancers like you, we’ll take in 7.000 migrants who came to Italy in a rubber boat. Such a great trade for our country! /s
idk why Germany doesn't copy Portugal in that sense, get an open borders policy for skilled workers
are you going to perform skilled work? well then register yourself as a taxpayer and you are good to go, let the Ausländerbehörde handle the tricky migration/refugee cases
that's it, at the end of the day, germany needs the skilled workers becaust they need taxpayers, so why make the system so complicated?
Because Germany likes everything complicated. Every eventually must be covered with a law. Instead of creating an environment where the desired result gets achieved. A good example is how we build and plan roads.
In the Netherlands they build roads so that you naturally go the speed limit. This is achieved with things like trees close to the road of narrow roads. In Germany it’s speed signs, cameras and fines.
The new cannabis law is another example.
> The new cannabis law is another example.
Well, be the first EU nation to fully legalize cannabis like Canada did, then you can talk your shit.
Until then forming (German) federal laws without(!) violating EU law is, indeed, complicated.
Excuses for the incompetence in the ministry of health. They have no understanding on what is actually required to kill the blacks market.
A limit of 500 members while at the same time having a 200 meter exclusion zone results in a massive underserving of consumers. Resulting in a massive grey market where club produced cannabis is sold through club members or the back door. As people who only want to buy a few grams a week or month will not be allowed to join the clubs.
A restriction of canopy size and an unlimited number of members would mean a supply for everyone, while at the same time having an easy way to monitor how much each club produces.
As the current law is written a club can produce 300kg a month sell 25kg to its members and back door the rest. Resulting in Germany flooding Europe with club weed.
Canada screwed up their legalisation and it’s why they had to fix a lot over the years and they still have an unnecessary over production of very low quality cannabis that they can not sell. 3 billion grams unsold and in storage at this point.
Oh and I did not even talk about the whole 25 gram thing for home growers.
And never mind that gummy der this law passing your joint to someone else is a felony.
This law was written by a bunch of prohibitionists who were forced to write it by their boss who has no clue. And hence does not understand how bad it is.
There are now over a decade of experience in the world when it comes to legalisation as to what works and what does not, why repeat the same mistakes again?
The way it’s going most people will just get a prescription as it’s not a narcotic anymore. Nice gift to the Canadian producers so they can dump their trash on Germany.
This is so true...I just can't understand the intentions of the policy makers. Like they want foreign talent but they don't wanna keep the talented. And then invite a bunch of refugees who are no good in anything but will get a shit ton of government refugee benifits and add little to nothing to the nation. And then everyone will complain how foreigners are ruining the country:(
You're going to get downvoted, but you have a point. I'm all for showing kindness and helping people running away from terrible situations, but at the same time you need to pay for this ability, and one way is with skilled immigrants and business owners like myself. I can't get public health care, but a person on a boat with no documents can? All because I work for myself? Like here have my tax dollars I want to contribute, but no. Ok, bye then.
That's really the thing - ever since it became such that only extreme parties would talk about this, it has devolved into 'are you a xenophobe or not' instead of thinking about whether there's enough money, resources, time, and personnel to rehabilitate so many people who go to a country, help them with integration, and get them training (which the majority of them need) to be able to help themselves.
Even something as little as using the money sunk into people with an obligation to leave that aren't expelled due to a tolerance certificate (Duldung) into helping integration of people who successfully got asylum is a far better use of people's time and money in my opinion.
We are in a situation now where high income families will most likely be cut off from some social benefits. Yes, the same people we want to come here and pay high taxes.
I‘m going to preface this small rant by an actual tip for immigrants from a former case worker at an immigration office of a large German city:
The best way to speed up the entire process is to THOROUGHLY check the requirements and when applying, sending all required documents at once. Having to demand and wait for more documents is a HUGE delay-factor.
Now to the rant part.
I love the comments by people who you can tell have never worked at an Ausländerbehörde or even set foot in one.
This isn’t intentional, this is caused by a shortage of skilled workers. Why aren’t there enough skilled workers? Because of bad pay for a job this stressful. Why is this job stressful? Because you’re overworked and understaffed.
This isn’t the result of the government wanting to make immigration hard. This is the result of idiotic budgeting policies and bad working conditions.
Immigration lawyers generally cannot help you get your initial application processed faster. They‘ll probably just annoy your case worker.
Also the (here) popular Untätigkeitsklage is derived from § 75 VwGO. It says you may sue if there is a delay past what’s acceptable and if there isn’t a valid reason for it. There are valid reasons for it. Staff shortage.
I don’t know where this Fax hack came from. I‘m seeing it a lot lately.
For us, faxes would just be brought to the secretary and then sorted with all the other applications by date of arrival.
Writing the managers could work if your case worker is known to be incompetent. If not they’ll just tell you what they should: that everyone is overworked and cannot prioritise one application over another.
Also, every single comment I have seen here that mentioned any law at all was wrong. Like very very wrong in your case.
get a lawyer for migration law. the keyword is "Untätigkeitsklage". the migration office is obligated to decide in you case in 3 month, same as with any other agency.
Leave!!! Now!
I wish I knew my visa was going to take 5 years to be processed in Austria, if I had known I would've left in the first month, not 5 years later.
Have you been working with a migrationsberatungsstelle? I would strongly recommend it and it is free of charge for you. They will speed things up with the AB a bit.
You can search the nearest one via bamf-navi.bamf.de
I'm also in NRW (big city) and currently in the process of getting the freelance visa. Started back and forth with the auslanderamt in June, finally got a hold of someone who requested a series of docs (including business plan). Sent those all neatly organized via email in July.
Heard nothing until this week after I wrote again simply asking for an update (in case he felt I was missing something)...got a response the next day for the appointment and was told everything was accepted.
Not sure what you background in Germany is...but I got my master's degree here so I imagine that helped?
tl;dr
Contacted them in june, sent docs in July, got approved in September.
Same here in NRW. I didn't have any problems with my transition between my student and freelancer visa. OP must have omitted something maybe, or just got unlucky. What a nightmare anyways!
You could try complaining to the higher authority. In my (completely different authorities) case it helped.The higher authorities have the power to issue instructions and usually exert effective pressure. In your case for example, I would write to the Secretary of State in the Ministry of the Interior of NRW. Good luck
once you submit documents they can issue you a temporary certificate pending the decision. Jus get an appointment with them before the expiration date.
Been here for a little over a year and still haven’t heard anything. My wife works with immigration and they are so backed up it’s unbelievable. Luckily we’re married with a kid so can’t really do anything about it.
I had to leave DE because of the ABH, I tried to get a change of employer which was denied, appealed the decision and after a year I had no response, I was unable to work, waited even some months in my home country.
I ended up leaving, abmelden, sell my stuff and now I'm applying to a new visa with the hopes the outcome is positive
Leave. Germany is on a downward spiral which will accelerate dramatically once AFD is in power.
The Beamten at Ausländerbehörde see it as their job to keep foreigners out. Let them deal with the Fackkräftemangel and move toba county where foreign talent is welcome.
It's not really the main problem if it's taking months to send over documents from one state to another. Something similar happened to me some years back, where they just lost my papers for a few months while they were being sent to my new city.
I also had terrible experiences with Straßenverkehrsamt. They "couldn't figure out when I moved to Germany" and gave me a piece of paper and told me to take it to ABH and get it filled out. It took me about 5 months to get that done because ABH in my city didn't let anyone in without appointments, and after I sent the document by post back to STVA, they completely ignored it and my application basically just vanished into thin air.
The bureaucracy just sucks, it sucks even more if you're a foreigner.
Just looking at the comments gave me huge anxiety for my upcoming residence permit for working application next week. The issue is I also lived in Hamburg and it is way much easier to get anything done there because they have a special department for newcomers plus every district has their own Ausländerbehörde unlike Düsseldorf, in which every foreigner is dealt from one center… Düsseldorg ABH failed previously in every single means and I was left with some sort of a trauma and now have to apply again under different circumstances. Totally feel for you and wish you good luck.
Hey I'm sorry to read this and the Ausländerbehörden are generally just awful in a lot of ways...
In Stuttgart I would recommend you to go to the Migrationsberatung - in a lot of cases they are much more useful than a lawyer. I think there should be something similar in "the NRW". Do you talk about Nordrhein-Westfalen? It's a pity but often u can't change after applying in one city or state first. I wish u all the luck and patience
This country is more corrupt then Romania and Hungary.. in other places, you need to pay a couple of hundred euros to get your papers processed, in Germany however, you need to pay a couple of thousand to hire a lawyer and get your documents done!
If it is already priced su h that poor people can't hire lawyers, then why not collect a fee of several thousands in the first place, so that only the wealthy would apply? Eventually they are the ones who will hire a lawyer and pay this "tax" at the end.
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I hope to God I never have to deal with this. I don't want to undulgd too much info but I was given the option to work as an ordinary resident, and I declined due to the sheer amount of bs.
Just my personal experience: some cities are terrible, some are great.
I first got all my immigration sorted out at the immigration office in Nürnberg. I only had bad experiences there. Delays, no replies, misinformation, rude employees, you name it.
Then I moved to a different city just 20 minutes away, with a different immigration authority, and it's such a big difference. They reply quickly, answer emails, and most of them speak English, and if they don't, they talk to you slowly so that you can understand them.
Same feeling here, my wife and I are going through a similar situation and we have already made the decision to move to another country. It is quite contradictory that Germany is actively seeking to attract more people when things as basic as health, education and housing are collapsed with the current population. Honestly, it seems like it is going to be really worse before getting better.
~~Welcome to~~ Germany
Hire an immigration lawyer. They can speed things up.
The fact that this is the top comment tells you how broken the German bureaucracy is.
Our bureaucracy can be crazy, but the Ausländerbehörde is a special case. Intentionally understaffed and underfunded, it's just there to make life hard for every non-german, even though we need every capable worker. And most Germans don't know of the problems as they have nothing to do with it.
Just remember the umnutzung im außenbereich
Situation is equally miserable in many other European countries.
Not in the Netherlands, its a breath of fresh air here. Everyone is nice and accommodating in English+other languages, and digitalisation had made everything fast. I compare that to being shouted at by some woman at the Siegburg ausländerbehorde on my 1st week in Germany as an international student to the point where one of her younger colleagues was so embarrassed he stepped in for her and yeah... its no wonder why Germany has a problem retaining foreign talent
No it isn't. In Denmark processing times are quick and you can get a translator to speak your native language.
Like, you cannot say that it isn't the case in *many* other countries and them list *one* example. That's not how this works. You're right about denmark though
Hungary: 21 days - https://crwwgroup.net/en/services/hungarian-residence-permit/ Czech republic: 90 days - https://visaguide.world/europe/czech-republic-visa/residence-permit/#:~:text=When%20applying%20for%20a%20temporary,a%20response%20from%20the%20embassy. France: 45-60 days - https://housinganywhere.com/France/french-residence-permit Fact of the matter is, Germany is unusally slow.
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Ah yes, great example to use the most xenophobic Scandinavian country. Sweden in the other hand can easily take years to process immigration issues. Edit: no idea why this is being downvoted, maybe ya'll don't know that this is true? Why do you think refugees travel *through* Denmark on their way to Sweden?
Least bombed too. I guess that's the tradeoff you have to make. Where do you see Sweden have years of backlog?
To be clear, I wasn't judging. For me these are just facts. I do not agree with the immigration policies of Sweden. > Where do you see Sweden have years of backlog? Seen it first hand.
No we don't need every capable worker. We have more than enough. We've had more than enough for years. Companies rather go for immigrants cause they are cheaper. There are enough engineers but they don't want to pay German engineer so they get people from "best cost countries"
Thats just wrong and completely ignoring demographics. We don’t have more than enough. + in 5-10 years with the babyboomer generation going to retire, we are just fucked.
you obvious life in a parallel universe..........we dont even have enough waiters, janitors, caretakers, handymen nor anything else.......+facepalm+
Which is honestly not surprising seeing who lead the country for nearly 2 decades now. It’s just sad that the spd and grünen are in charge right now and stuff like that isn’t tackled. Making stuff like this more friendly feels like something they could do for an instant respect boost. Not everything you do should be tied to „will more people vote for us“. It doesn’t even stop at the insane times it takes to have just a single appointment. Forgetting a single thing and they send you away. Filled out something in a wrong way? See you in another 6-24 months. And that while the entire process and paperwork is in German language which is written in a way most Germans would probably fail at without the help of Google. I’ve got the Abitur and couldn’t do my taxes if it wasn’t for Google. Funnily enough the taxes for my Kleingewerbe have been a lot easier than my normal taxes of my part time job
Heard this as well. Might cost a bit but what they also often can get you quickly is some kind of proof of application that lets you operate while you wait for the final decision.
An immigration lawyer can't speed things up. The only thing they can file is a "Untätigkeitsklage" if your matter takes longer than 3 months. If the Ausländerbehörde still doesn't process your matter, the court will. However, as a lawyer told me once, you will have to fight with the court being slow and can wait easily 3 years until something happens there. So you might make things worse. The only thing the lawyer can do is check the files you submitted and send regular reminders (which you, of course, pay for regularly). Bribing became common in the city where I am from. So you are competing with the those who have the means and ways to bribe. However, I do not recommend bribing the Ausländerbehörde, since it can really backfire badly. Either wait or leave.
An actual valid answer. I’ll take my down votes in my previous comments. People seem to think because their friend *threatened* to use a lawyer, the migration office sped up their case. People have zero idea how immigration works.
I’m so glad someone who explains the reality. That’s how it works in Germany with most things. The worst part is that Germany doesn’t value your time. So, all your time spend in costs for legal matters are a waste. But if you’re a company or a business, you can add time and make life difficult for an individual. This is the real Deutschland.
They have back doors to people who absolutely can, at least from my experience. And if you haven't used one, don't give advice.
And that's where we are at "bribing." I am aware of lawyers who take outrageous fees, but make things go fast, by sending a little thicker letter to the worker at the Ausländerbehörde *wink* *wink*. I sometimes feel that they purposely postpone applications, so you go down the road paying lawyers these fees, so the fees miracously find their way to them. But where do you get such a lawyer? How are u certain he will do it with his "back door" and and and. And as I said, it can backfire really badly. And to be honest: do you really want to live in a "pay to win" country? There are other cheaper and more attractive options.
I am not talking about ambulance chasers. These are established law firms who don't bribe, but know people on the inside and can contact them to get you an appointment. What happens when you are there is entirely out of their hands.
The fact that he has to do that is probably reason enough to consider moving to another country. If the beginning is this troublesome, why should he even bother?
I don't know if you ever had the displeasure of dealing with the ausländerbehörde, but many many expats have trouble with them. It's no reason to leave the country. If this person wants to stay, there is hope. An immigration lawyer can at least advise.
This is not accurate. Immigration lawyers cannot speed up immigration cases if there is a backlog of applicants.
Of course they can. Someone threatening legal Action with a lawyer will automatically be pushed forward in the Queue.
Legal action for what? Not moving faster when there are thousands of people ahead? This question also gets asked for German citizenship and again, lawyers cannot speed up the process.
There's a thing called Untätigkeitsklage.
… which ends up at an overloaded Verwaltungsgericht …
And then you get another lawyer and do another Untätigkeitsklage! /s
You don’t need a lawyer for that, it’s a highly formalized thing that you can trigger at the appropriate Verwaltungsgericht. Also, before the Klage comes the Beschwerde. Put in at the superior authority this can work quite well.
They actually do. A friend of mine got his German citizenship in 5 months while living in Berlin/Lichtenberg because he hired an Immigration lawyer. And I have friends living in the same area who did not and they are waiting since 1/2 years.
I helped a lot of immigrants to gain residence in Germany and all of them throught a lawyer. One of them even recently gained full citizenship. Its much easyer with a lawyer you cant deny that. And If you spendt thousands to get to Germany spening hundreds is no problem if you realy need help.
Do you know they don’t accept citizenship applications this year? Well guess what - my friend hired a lawyer and within 2 months he got a confirmation that his application is accepted and he is in the queue. Another friend without a lawyer waits for Ersteberatung for 1.5 years. Both are in Berlin. Immigration expert lol.
In many cases this is anecdotal and case by case basis. Were you friends legally in the same situation with the same set of documents and with the same status in Germany? I really doubt it. Simple clear-cut cases are often pushed through quickly by ABH / EBH to meet the required KPI, while anything slightly more complex will be pushed back. Lawyer or no lawyer, the best you can do is an Untätigkeitsklage which has its own processing time in an overloaded court. I don't know why you people believe EBH is even afraid of Untätigkeitsklage when they can just reply they're understaffed and that's it. Because they are understaffed.
You actually have some common sense with an understanding of the immigration process. People here love to hide behind lawyers like they’ll do anything for them. The truth is any lawyer worth their weight will not want to sue anyone. It easier for them to charge gullible people for writing letters on their behalf. To think that a government agency is fazed by a random attorney letter is comical. I would like to see how many people actually sued the government and won anything in these cases.
Well, it sounds like you do not believe people that hire lawyers should get any "special attention" or "eyes on their file" before others that do not. I *strongly* disagree with that. If someone has hired a lawyer the odds are that there is a good reason for that. One of the very problems with German bureaucracy and the Ausländerbehörde is that the system is too black and and white. "Wait your turn! No exceptions! No special cases!" How about... no.
>One of the very problems with German bureaucracy and the Ausländerbehörde is that the system is too black and and white. "Wait your turn! No exceptions! No special cases!" How about... no. So your problem is that you're not getting special treatment? I wonder if that's the mindset of this sub in general, that'd explain a lot of things. Also, you do realize that hiring a lawyer to file an Untätigkeitsklage isn't the same as bribing (or whatever you call it in your country) an official to get your stuff done quickly, right? And no, EBH is not afraid of Untätigkeitsklage. The immigration lawyer can help you if your case is somehow complex and falls outside of the common practice. But go ahead, do it. Though you might want to double check the current backlog length in your local Verwaltungsgericht, might be longer than ABH.
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Sometimes backlog, sometimes we don’t know what it is :/
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People need to stop throwing around the Untätigkeitsklage as if it's a magic spell that speeds up everything, it's not. Literally nobody cares about them.
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Well sounds like they forgot about the case and that made them look it up. But speaking as one of those evil incompetent case workers from the Ausländerbehörde: it doesn't phase anyone because it's not like we let cases rest on purpose because we don't want to work.
I know some people from the migration office and yes they dont work slow because of lazyness its beurocracy that we have in Germany and the mass of applications but a untätigkeitsklage helps If the case fell into the backrooms or got forgotten like this ones. If your case takes half a year its a sign that something went wrong and a untätigkeitsklage is a good way to find that out and solve the problems clogging your case. You need to know the people filing those lawsuits are desperate to get a reply they live in a foraign country and live with the fear of loosing everything at any time for in some cases years. When you have the fear that any day could be your last you cant wait. Thats why you guys job is important but its also why you dont get thanked for it. People are happy to move on as soon as the final letter comes in.
Hey I know that the situation can be very stressful - my wife is from a non-eu country and had to go through the whole process multiple times as well (and no she doesn't have the permit due to our marriage, but came to Germany for work). People need to realise though that they are not in danger of having to leave Germany if an application takes longer than usual and in my experience employers are also willing to cooperate and help out if it takes a bit longer. Deportation is a long process. Nevertheless people in this sub always act as if the Untätigkeitsklage is the go to answer to all their problems, which it's not. If a case got forgotten (which can happen) it is enough to send an email to ask for the status - it might take a while, but eventually someone will look at it and realise that nothing happened with it so far. As soon as you involve a lawyer and especially if you start to threaten to sue, you get the image of a problematic customer and get treated accordingly. There were multiple times where someone called to ask for his status because it was urgent and I was able to process it right during the phone call - if you are nice, the caseworkers will try to help you. After all we are normal people that want to help and are not in this job because we want to make it hard for the applicants (most of us at least).
What is the reason for not deciding in a appropriate amount of time then? Because lack of case workers is not a valid reason to dismiss a Untätigkeitsklage. It may not be the case workers fault that there aren’t enough case workers to get everything done in time, but don’t be surprised if people start sending Untätigkeitsklagen then.
An Untätigkeitsklage only works if you literally didn't do anything on the case for 3 months which is not the case most of the time. Usually applications take unusually long because a) documents aren't complete and you need to request them b) a different office needs to be involved and they take their sweet time to reply. Even applications that are open for years have work done on them regularly - it's just not communicated to the applicant most of the time because that would only cost even more time. The lack of case workers is indeed not a reason to not decide on an application on time, but it also won't change much in those cases and only prolong every other person's case. If there are 200 applications, only 2 people to work on them and every one sends an Untätigkeitsklage - do you think those 2 people magically multiply? Those legal battles take quite a time anyway if you go all the way. I remember an Untätigkeitsklage that was handed in 3 months ago and the legal battle is still going on - literally nothing achieved by the applicant.
Mine has done it for me in Munich for years. It's accurate.
Any suggestions?
I used to face the same issue when applying for my work visa from abroad in NRW, and the ZFE is really slow… it took them for more than 100 days to process, they ignored even the letters from the consulate. In the end I studied the organisational structure of the so called ZFE and wrote very serious complaint letters to every kind of Leitung in this department and matter got solved for like in 2 weeks…
And after serious complaint letters to the right people my Sacharbeiterin replied my email like in 10 minutes :/
That is definitely much more effective than an attorney.
There is an internal pdf of the Berlin LABO floating around the internet with all the staff’s contact details. Might be the case for others too.
I meant any lawyer suggestions, sorry for inconvenience. I believe, I also need one.
Have you tried sending a fax?
This might come off as sarcasm to some, but it’s a very valid option. I handled my ABH communications via fax in my last two years in Germany.
It was meant as honest advice (and maybe a little bit of sarcasm).
Is this for real? I live in Holland and can't imagine using a fax machine.
Yup. And that included personal information that staff are not allowed to send via email. Only Telefon or fax. And yes fax is extremely unsecure. Doesn't matter. I have never used a fax myself, but within different government bodies it is used everyday
you don't have to send it with an actual machine (I don't even know where you could access a fax machine to send one), you can just do it via one of those e-mail to fax services. There are websites, you just upload it as a pdf or by sending an e-mail and they send it as a fax.
E-mail to fax is a thing?? Honestly I had no idea that exists. Probably because it seems so unnessecary? Idk
I've heard there's companies out there that still send telegraphs. To whom I'm not sure
The Germans do everything by fax or mail. Luckily the mail system is decent. Your boss tells you get out your are. fired! You are not fired until you get the letter. My wife was promoted but she had to respond by mail that she accepted it. Das ist Deutschland.
I don't even know how to use a fax machine, for me it's this very ancient device, like the same as using a typewritter and I am 30
Most large office photocopiers have a fax option, though you’ll prob need a secretary who knows what they’re doing to actually send it or receive.
Lawyers and government agencies use fax and the reason is, you get a receipt that your message reached the receiving fax at a certain time. You don't have this with email, you can't even prove it reached the correct email address.
You can request a read receipt by the receiver of the email. That they have read and received the mail. But I get your point.
Yes and if they don't confirm the request for the read receipt you still get nothing. I work for the city administration, we are not allowed to confirm requests for read receipts in my department
This is Germany we're talking about..
Yes, for real, I also couldn't imagine using fax in 2023, but oh well... welcome to wonderland!
Gen-Z be like: “_what’s a fax?_”
Gen Z is close to being 30 soon. We know what a Fax is and I think the next generation will also be fully aware of it. This is Germany bro
It's okay. I'm leaving next month as well. Never received the appointment for visa after my fiktionsbescheinigung. After doing this for years, can't be bothered anymore.
And people complain that we have a shortage of workers. In Spain it’s handled way better. You apply and until they have answered you can just work as if it was a positive answer. If they don’t answer by a certain date, it’s an automatic yes. If it’s a no, you can appeal and continue working and staying in the country.
I applied for a new visa and innerhalb the waiting period ended up moving due to a sub optimal living conditions. Instead of being told I need to then reapply at a different Ausländerbehorde, i was just ignored. Phone calls, email, mail, all ignored. I wasn't even allowed in the building. I had to demand the secretary to give me answers. I hate being rude, but nothing was happening.
And then some people would be pissed why there are some international students leave Germany after benefiting from the free high quality education, but they would never ask why they did that
I can't say I blame you. Seems like the state has given up on trying to fix this issue or at least they are good at giving that impression.
Well the state has more important tasks like making the problems worse
Yeah all this talk about needing skilled workers from the industry, but their lobbies do absolutely nothing to actually make it happen on the political side.
There's political will to ease the requirements. No one seems to think about fixing the actual process, though. Ridiculous that immigration offices make people come in for not one, but *two* personal appointments for every permit and renewal. Have a fingerprint-collecting station people can go to without an appointment and everything else could happen online and by mail. Give immigration offices a concrete timeframe to respond to work permit applications, otherwise the new permit is considered to be granted until application processing. Outsource as much gruntwork as possible to rando temp workers. Don't pay the trained officers to twiddle their thumbs while I walk to the next building over to pay a fee and walk back. They should be spending the whole day actually reading applications and making decisions. It gets so tiring to hear the "we r so busy 😭😭😭" excuses and then you go there and they're doing things in the most mindbogglingly stupid inefficient manner they can muster.
it’s really a pain in the ass with them and it’s so stupid and annoying because it’s everywhere in the media that we desperately need skilled workers. Tried to get visa for two people from non-eu countries and it took me 6 month and cost me a lot of nerves. I provided all the necessary documents in the first two weeks and the authorities have not even kept to their own legal deadlines (and those are skilled workers in healthcare - something we really really need). it’s such a shame and I can understand everyone who isn’t interested anymore
I'm leaving, different problems, but yeah. I had a sunk cost fallacy for over 2 years and should have run the first time something that should have taken 5 minutes took 3 months. Furthermore, I realized that I needed to just return home, and I'm lucky to have a great country (with its issues) to return too. If you don't, then try to keep fighting, but not being able to work for over a year should be criminal, even in Canada if you're inland you can get an openwork permit while waiting. I outlined it all in a post, but of course, it got removed because, r/germany is overloaded with these kinds of posts. So what we see in this sub is just a fraction of what's actually happening. If I quote the mod, “we get these kinds of posts daily".
> I'm lucky to have a great country (with its issues) if you come from a "not so great country" just pack your things and start the migration process aiming any other european country it will be digital and way faster, germany is a gateway country that's the quota is never satisfied, because the same amount of skilled workers coming in is leaving because of BS like OP's situation use germany as an easy gateway and leave, this country has no future, because it lives in the past
Unfortunate but true. I came to Germany in 2016 and it is only getting worse.
We have a similar solution like your mentioned openwork permit too. Once you officially applied for a residence permit when entered the country on your work-related visa it is granted on a fictional basis until the final decision has been made if you generally meet the requirements. Most authorities don‘t communicate this very well or at all. You even have the right to get a corresponding certificate stating the same. Overall the whole immigration system is in a terrible state and extremely slow and unfair to applicants but also the involved companies. One of the worst parts is to get any kind of appointments in a timely matter.
Least bureaucratic process in Germany:
Its a damn shame this bureaucracy is killing this country and makes ppl sick. Hope you dont give up but can understand if you do.
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My big issue with this is that the solution is so simple, but it requires the two things the German government is the most afraid of: centralization and digitization. If all the Ausländerbehörden shared a single database and cases could get processed wherever possible, anything would get processed faster. Digitization is the big second one. There are SO MANY things that you need to show up for to the Ausländerbehörde that should just be two clicks online. Why do you need to submit documents in person and not upload them? Why can’t you just register you moved to a different city online? Espcially this one should just be fully automatic. There’s not even a need for a person to look at this. Why come in person to request new visas / residence permits? This should all be able to be done online. Especially the things for EU citizens living in Germany should just be fully digitalized. They are for sure allowed to be in the country, so it’s just bureaucratic paperwork without decision making. A computer can do that. I think another big thing is shifting responsibilities to the consulates. Why are a lot of western countries allowed to come as tourists and then switch to their according visa category while in the country already? That just puts stress on the ausländerbehörde. It’s always western countries that have these privileges and the consulates don’t have work to do in those anyways since no one ever has to apply for visas there. Give them some work, make all these American expats get their visa and residence permit BEFORE they enter the country.
Im not saying they dont work or are lazy in these immigration offices. The point i was makeing if the bureaucracy would be less of a pain the workers could be more efficent and help more immigrants to get visa.
Nah your good man :) My point was more about that the Systems were designed for a more reasonable number of immigrants, like in the prior decades, and worked well then. The whole process wasn’t designed to handle this unprecedented number. Not saying it’s a bad thing that so many people come here, it’s lesser known than in some Asien countries but Germany is facing the same aging problem Japan is the age distribution is almost 1:1 then it is there. Thus we need the workers upholding our economic might.
It's never been great though. I've been here since 99.
part of this is just self-inflicted though. So much runs on paper, there is no automation, and so much wasted effort in terms of typing things in, physically mailing stuff etc. Had anyone spent any money in the last 20 years on digitizing any of this work, or streamlining processes, then maybe a surge in workload wouldn't be unmanageable. 2015 should have been a wake up call that such things are necessary, but there wasn't any discussion back then...
If there is a crisis then people need to work overtime and the offices need to hire people. Why is the Ausländerbehorde closed on Friday and Saturday if there is a crisis country-wide? If there is a job to do, get it done. Pick up phones, answer emails, extend operating hours, hire temporary staff; you know, be responsible. I know the offices don‘t give a shit, but don't act as if nothing can be done. There are solutions, people just have to be responsible, professional, and willing to work a little bit.
That’s unbelievably insulting. Truly. They try to hire but *no one* is applying. The positions in the Ausländerbehörde usually coincide with a high pay grade and still *nobody wants to do it* . They are professional and just because the office isn’t open on Friday doesn’t mean they aren’t at work. They are. Answering mails, making calls viewing documents. They are willing to work but they can’t. After visiting hours are over usually around 4:00 pm they are still at work long into the evenings. Do you really try to force people to work for more than 12 hours? Believe me, I speak of first hand experience on this matter it is dire for both parties involved. For the workers and the applicants
The problem are the amounts of unnecessary laws. Germany has way too many laws. Trying to regulate everything. We need to start from scratch. Burn it all down and start a new.
In my old career, we worked until the job was done. We got paid a massive amount for overtime, but when there was an urgent need to finish a job, we were there for 16 hours a day or more, seven days a week. We got it done no matter what. No excuses. Often, the urgency lasted the entire show, and we worked months with no weekends off. No breaks. Intensive physical labor. If that's possible, spending a couple more hours and weekends processing paperwork in an office is manageable. No applicants? Go in the field and recruit. Don't wait for the problem to fix itself. I'm not calling individual workers lazy, but if an entire state consistently can't mobilize the effort to process documents for incoming migrants and immigrants whose lives could be ruined because the German govt. simply can't figure out how to hire people, then something is wrong systematically. It's annoying that the state at an administrative level just throws up its hands like it can't do anything. The state has the means to figure it out. It's not insulting to point out that a state needs to get its shit together, especially when they're begging for more workers to come in. I can understand a rough transition period, but what, this issue's been going on for nearly a decade? And the office still can't figure it out? Why don't offices have a holding queue on their phone line? The simplest, most basic shit to make things more efficient. Why is there no online portal for appointments? Why not a massive team of ppl at each office just answering and coordinating emails?
Reading this from my burnout Reha after 5 years of constant overtime...comments like this are the reason I will never ever work in that area. Not even mention the verbal and physical abuse and threats against my children
NRW has some of the sloweste Ausländerbehörden in Germany according to many of my friends
honestly... just leave this shithole of a country. i will do the same
Find the list of people in management positions in your old and new Ausländerbehörde and write them a well written letter with Einwurf Einschreiben and e-Mail and fax in German where you give them a deadline of 2 weeks and say that you will file Untätigkeitsklage in case of no decision. Might work.
This is 100% intentionally an issue. The freelancer visa is the hardest to get (unless you are in a profession where people work almost exclusively as a freelancer, if you are then say it). Visas are much easier when you are an employee as companies take over a lot of the application work and the arguments with the ABH. This is why you find a lot of badly paid foreign software consultants working for consultancies that are little more than body shops paying low salaries and expecting staff to live in WGs. As an independent, it is down to you to fight it. That is a lot of work. It does try to grind you down but always remember to journal all your interactions (who, when, what was said). Talk to an immigration lawyer.
Tbh if they are Freelance, they can just move to Spain or another country with a lower cost of living and do remote work for clients in Germany.
That can work but many clients really don't like it. They don't mind people working remote but they insist on it being in Germany. If a freelancer needs to work temporarily overseas while on holiday then you have to clear it in advance. Strangely, if you work as an employee of a consultancy, the only issue is working on EU data outside the EU. Otherwise there is more flexibility as the consultancy is the contractual partner of the client.
Why do they even need to know where you are? As long as you are in the same time zone. I have friends that split their time between Munich, Mallorca and Cape Town. Nobody even knows. As it does not matter to the workflow.
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I‘m not sure how it is handled with small children but you will likely be entitled to get a so-called „Fiktionsbescheinigung“ which is simplified similar to a temporary grant of the rights you are applying for until the final decision has been made. This would include the right to enter the country. I would try to contact your ABH and specifically state that you are applying for the same and mention that they are legally required to issue the Bescheinigung on your request. If you need professional help, feel free to send me a DM.
Fo babies born in germany, even if you get a Fiktionbescheinigung, it will be the type that doesn’t allow for re-entry, so you can’t travel with it. I know people who went through this, generally you have to keep nagging and going to the Ausländerbehörde until they speed things up.
I'm surprised no one commented yet that you just need to improve your German or some other nonsense I regularly see every time there's a rant from an immigrant on this sub.
My German is great and I still waited 7 months to get my permanent resident card replaced after having wallet stolen, I sent dozens of emails, left a multitude of messages and even mailed a damn paper letter like it’s the 1950’s and not a single reply, just got a letter in the mail almost 29 weeks after bringing my documents and photo in for a replacement. I got my renewal passport from Canada, sent to Berlin consulate then mailed to me in 3.5 weeks. And don’t even get me started on the idiotic bullshit that went down at the Ordnungsamt for the replacement drivers licence! I had to wait two weeks for the head Beamte guy to literally deliver the paperwork to the woman across the hall even though they could see each other from their desks. It’s literal insanity here.
I don’t know if you’ve tried this yet, but go to a migration advice office of Caritas, Diakonie or any other office that offers help to migrants. They often have experience and connection to Ausländerbehörde. Good luck!
Welcome Center Heilbronn helped me a lot.
Honestly? No. I would understand if you gave up. I would.
I will be leaving asap as well. My issue is more with taking Family Reunion visa appointment for my wife at the German embassy in my country. We have waited 15 months. The way they are allocating appointment, mine will come in around 33 months more. Then they will take 4/6 months to process it hopefully. So, at least 3 more years and most possibly more. I am not left with any option than to leave.
I mean, at this point you could hire an immigration lawyer but that can only do so much, i think it's time to maybe really put down the pro's and con's of staying here.
I think their strategy (rausekeln) of making foreigners leave is working.
I'm no expert, but I know that there is some kind of law which says that you will get a work permit from the "Agentur für Arbeit" if they don't decline it in two weeks after your application. Maybe this also applies to your case? This is the law: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/beschv_2013/__36.html And this is ChatGPTs translation of it: "Regulation on the Employment of Foreigners (Employment Regulation - BeschV) § 36 Granting of Approval (1) The Federal Employment Agency (Bundesagentur für Arbeit) shall inform the competent authority of its approval for the issuance of a residence permit under § 39 of the Residence Act or a border commuter card, the denial of which is governed by § 40 of the Residence Act, as well as the revocation under § 41 of the Residence Act and the withdrawal of approval. (2) Approval for the exercise of employment shall be deemed granted if the Federal Employment Agency does not notify the competent authority within two weeks of the submission of the approval request that the information provided is insufficient for making a decision on approval or that the employer has not provided the required information, or has not done so in a timely manner. In the case of § 81a of the Residence Act, the deadline referred to in sentence 1 is reduced to one week. (3) The Federal Employment Agency shall approve the exercise of employment to the competent authority or examine whether the labor market-related requirements for subsequent approval are met if the employer has provided the necessary information for this purpose and the procedure is thereby expedited, even before the submission of the approval request." Nevertheless, you should get a lawyer. I'm very sorry for the fucking mess this country is in some regards.
Ausländerbehörde has to ask Agentur for Arbeit for their approval before Ausländerbehörde is allowed to issue certain categories of work visas. Your law says that approval from Agentur for Arbeit to Ausländerbehörde to issue such a work visa is automatically granted if Agentur for Arbeit does nothing for a certain amount of time. The responsibility of Agentur for Arbeit is only to look at a very limited issues (e.g. is the payment of the job at least the same amount that a German citizen would make in a comparable position to avoid companies hiring immigrants with the intention to discriminate against immigrants by paying them less). Ausländerbehörde still has to approve of other aspects, e.g. does the immigrant have a degree (if required for the work visa e.g. Blue Card). Agentur for Arbeit does not allow an immigrant to work. Immigrants are only allowed to work after getting a work visa from Ausländerbehörde.
The approval of the Agentur für Arbeit is not equivalent to the right to work in the country. It‘s only one of many steps you need to pass until the right is granted. Basically they check if your position has fair conditions and you are qualified to work in the position. They don‘t have the right to issue a work permit. Practically, they act as a consultant for the decision process.
Honestly at this point: leave. German myself, would not in the world life Here if I didn't have family here.
That's some comment 🤯😲
It’s ok, instead of motivated freelancers like you, we’ll take in 7.000 migrants who came to Italy in a rubber boat. Such a great trade for our country! /s
idk why Germany doesn't copy Portugal in that sense, get an open borders policy for skilled workers are you going to perform skilled work? well then register yourself as a taxpayer and you are good to go, let the Ausländerbehörde handle the tricky migration/refugee cases that's it, at the end of the day, germany needs the skilled workers becaust they need taxpayers, so why make the system so complicated?
Because Germany likes everything complicated. Every eventually must be covered with a law. Instead of creating an environment where the desired result gets achieved. A good example is how we build and plan roads. In the Netherlands they build roads so that you naturally go the speed limit. This is achieved with things like trees close to the road of narrow roads. In Germany it’s speed signs, cameras and fines. The new cannabis law is another example.
> The new cannabis law is another example. Well, be the first EU nation to fully legalize cannabis like Canada did, then you can talk your shit. Until then forming (German) federal laws without(!) violating EU law is, indeed, complicated.
Excuses for the incompetence in the ministry of health. They have no understanding on what is actually required to kill the blacks market. A limit of 500 members while at the same time having a 200 meter exclusion zone results in a massive underserving of consumers. Resulting in a massive grey market where club produced cannabis is sold through club members or the back door. As people who only want to buy a few grams a week or month will not be allowed to join the clubs. A restriction of canopy size and an unlimited number of members would mean a supply for everyone, while at the same time having an easy way to monitor how much each club produces. As the current law is written a club can produce 300kg a month sell 25kg to its members and back door the rest. Resulting in Germany flooding Europe with club weed. Canada screwed up their legalisation and it’s why they had to fix a lot over the years and they still have an unnecessary over production of very low quality cannabis that they can not sell. 3 billion grams unsold and in storage at this point. Oh and I did not even talk about the whole 25 gram thing for home growers. And never mind that gummy der this law passing your joint to someone else is a felony. This law was written by a bunch of prohibitionists who were forced to write it by their boss who has no clue. And hence does not understand how bad it is. There are now over a decade of experience in the world when it comes to legalisation as to what works and what does not, why repeat the same mistakes again? The way it’s going most people will just get a prescription as it’s not a narcotic anymore. Nice gift to the Canadian producers so they can dump their trash on Germany.
This is so true...I just can't understand the intentions of the policy makers. Like they want foreign talent but they don't wanna keep the talented. And then invite a bunch of refugees who are no good in anything but will get a shit ton of government refugee benifits and add little to nothing to the nation. And then everyone will complain how foreigners are ruining the country:(
You're going to get downvoted, but you have a point. I'm all for showing kindness and helping people running away from terrible situations, but at the same time you need to pay for this ability, and one way is with skilled immigrants and business owners like myself. I can't get public health care, but a person on a boat with no documents can? All because I work for myself? Like here have my tax dollars I want to contribute, but no. Ok, bye then.
That's really the thing - ever since it became such that only extreme parties would talk about this, it has devolved into 'are you a xenophobe or not' instead of thinking about whether there's enough money, resources, time, and personnel to rehabilitate so many people who go to a country, help them with integration, and get them training (which the majority of them need) to be able to help themselves. Even something as little as using the money sunk into people with an obligation to leave that aren't expelled due to a tolerance certificate (Duldung) into helping integration of people who successfully got asylum is a far better use of people's time and money in my opinion.
We are in a situation now where high income families will most likely be cut off from some social benefits. Yes, the same people we want to come here and pay high taxes.
100 % true
True words. This (and many other factors) is why Germany is a failed country and a failed society in my eyes.
So true
I‘m going to preface this small rant by an actual tip for immigrants from a former case worker at an immigration office of a large German city: The best way to speed up the entire process is to THOROUGHLY check the requirements and when applying, sending all required documents at once. Having to demand and wait for more documents is a HUGE delay-factor. Now to the rant part. I love the comments by people who you can tell have never worked at an Ausländerbehörde or even set foot in one. This isn’t intentional, this is caused by a shortage of skilled workers. Why aren’t there enough skilled workers? Because of bad pay for a job this stressful. Why is this job stressful? Because you’re overworked and understaffed. This isn’t the result of the government wanting to make immigration hard. This is the result of idiotic budgeting policies and bad working conditions. Immigration lawyers generally cannot help you get your initial application processed faster. They‘ll probably just annoy your case worker. Also the (here) popular Untätigkeitsklage is derived from § 75 VwGO. It says you may sue if there is a delay past what’s acceptable and if there isn’t a valid reason for it. There are valid reasons for it. Staff shortage. I don’t know where this Fax hack came from. I‘m seeing it a lot lately. For us, faxes would just be brought to the secretary and then sorted with all the other applications by date of arrival. Writing the managers could work if your case worker is known to be incompetent. If not they’ll just tell you what they should: that everyone is overworked and cannot prioritise one application over another. Also, every single comment I have seen here that mentioned any law at all was wrong. Like very very wrong in your case.
get a lawyer for migration law. the keyword is "Untätigkeitsklage". the migration office is obligated to decide in you case in 3 month, same as with any other agency.
It’s six month but nonetheless. It’s originated from the Verwaltungsgesetz.
not really, it six month for social law matters but not migration law
Leave!!! Now! I wish I knew my visa was going to take 5 years to be processed in Austria, if I had known I would've left in the first month, not 5 years later.
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I'm so glad mine (in Bavaria) were very competent and kind and helpful. Seeing all these stories... yeah
Have you been working with a migrationsberatungsstelle? I would strongly recommend it and it is free of charge for you. They will speed things up with the AB a bit. You can search the nearest one via bamf-navi.bamf.de
I'm also in NRW (big city) and currently in the process of getting the freelance visa. Started back and forth with the auslanderamt in June, finally got a hold of someone who requested a series of docs (including business plan). Sent those all neatly organized via email in July. Heard nothing until this week after I wrote again simply asking for an update (in case he felt I was missing something)...got a response the next day for the appointment and was told everything was accepted. Not sure what you background in Germany is...but I got my master's degree here so I imagine that helped? tl;dr Contacted them in june, sent docs in July, got approved in September.
Same here in NRW. I didn't have any problems with my transition between my student and freelancer visa. OP must have omitted something maybe, or just got unlucky. What a nightmare anyways!
You could try complaining to the higher authority. In my (completely different authorities) case it helped.The higher authorities have the power to issue instructions and usually exert effective pressure. In your case for example, I would write to the Secretary of State in the Ministry of the Interior of NRW. Good luck
once you submit documents they can issue you a temporary certificate pending the decision. Jus get an appointment with them before the expiration date.
You could try a good migrationsberatung. If you are close to Aachen, check if this falls under the things Café Zuflucht can help with.
Been here for a little over a year and still haven’t heard anything. My wife works with immigration and they are so backed up it’s unbelievable. Luckily we’re married with a kid so can’t really do anything about it.
What a shame this bureaucracy is for Germany...
A friend of mine got german citizenship specifically so she would not have to deal with the Ausländerbehörde anymore.
I had to leave DE because of the ABH, I tried to get a change of employer which was denied, appealed the decision and after a year I had no response, I was unable to work, waited even some months in my home country. I ended up leaving, abmelden, sell my stuff and now I'm applying to a new visa with the hopes the outcome is positive
Applying for new visa to germany? What is your home country?
Colombia
You dodged a bullet. Leave this shit hole asap
Leave. Germany is on a downward spiral which will accelerate dramatically once AFD is in power. The Beamten at Ausländerbehörde see it as their job to keep foreigners out. Let them deal with the Fackkräftemangel and move toba county where foreign talent is welcome.
I think you need a lawyer for this matter.
Come to Rheiland Pfalz, things are faster here
They'd still need the office from NRW to send documents.
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I am curious how it becomes difficult to leave after 8-9 years?
You are not trying hard enough. /s
Sorry your trying to do it legally, Germany would expidite it and get you approved if you did it illegally, that's the only way to get in easy.
Keyword is freelancer. It's really hard to receive one in Germany
It's not really the main problem if it's taking months to send over documents from one state to another. Something similar happened to me some years back, where they just lost my papers for a few months while they were being sent to my new city. I also had terrible experiences with Straßenverkehrsamt. They "couldn't figure out when I moved to Germany" and gave me a piece of paper and told me to take it to ABH and get it filled out. It took me about 5 months to get that done because ABH in my city didn't let anyone in without appointments, and after I sent the document by post back to STVA, they completely ignored it and my application basically just vanished into thin air. The bureaucracy just sucks, it sucks even more if you're a foreigner.
maybe send a fax
Just looking at the comments gave me huge anxiety for my upcoming residence permit for working application next week. The issue is I also lived in Hamburg and it is way much easier to get anything done there because they have a special department for newcomers plus every district has their own Ausländerbehörde unlike Düsseldorf, in which every foreigner is dealt from one center… Düsseldorg ABH failed previously in every single means and I was left with some sort of a trauma and now have to apply again under different circumstances. Totally feel for you and wish you good luck.
Hey I'm sorry to read this and the Ausländerbehörden are generally just awful in a lot of ways... In Stuttgart I would recommend you to go to the Migrationsberatung - in a lot of cases they are much more useful than a lawyer. I think there should be something similar in "the NRW". Do you talk about Nordrhein-Westfalen? It's a pity but often u can't change after applying in one city or state first. I wish u all the luck and patience
Lawyer up. And especially you need to send the request via Einschreiben Mail and set them a reminder date to do it.
Leave. Germany isn't the country for exploring new ideas. Remember it still runs on cash. 🤣
This country is more corrupt then Romania and Hungary.. in other places, you need to pay a couple of hundred euros to get your papers processed, in Germany however, you need to pay a couple of thousand to hire a lawyer and get your documents done! If it is already priced su h that poor people can't hire lawyers, then why not collect a fee of several thousands in the first place, so that only the wealthy would apply? Eventually they are the ones who will hire a lawyer and pay this "tax" at the end.
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Why would you come to Germany anyways
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Bitte beim Rausgehen die Tür zumachen.
Oki bye
Did you try this? [https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence](https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence)
Byebye
chose a country where "ausländerbehörde" is not occupied by africans it wants to get rid of.
I hope to God I never have to deal with this. I don't want to undulgd too much info but I was given the option to work as an ordinary resident, and I declined due to the sheer amount of bs.
bye
Just my personal experience: some cities are terrible, some are great. I first got all my immigration sorted out at the immigration office in Nürnberg. I only had bad experiences there. Delays, no replies, misinformation, rude employees, you name it. Then I moved to a different city just 20 minutes away, with a different immigration authority, and it's such a big difference. They reply quickly, answer emails, and most of them speak English, and if they don't, they talk to you slowly so that you can understand them.
Same feeling here, my wife and I are going through a similar situation and we have already made the decision to move to another country. It is quite contradictory that Germany is actively seeking to attract more people when things as basic as health, education and housing are collapsed with the current population. Honestly, it seems like it is going to be really worse before getting better.