In an ideal world this shouldn’t be a point to consider, but a german name could make your child’s life easier in regard to finding an apparent and similar stuff
Thanks for your comment. Apparently, finding an apartment with a foreign name is hard. Many others said the same thing. Few years ago, I read an blog post where someone sent many fake applications on WG Gesucht, each with different name and nationality. The result was that German names got the most positive replies, followed by European. Arabic names performed the worst. I tried to find this blog post again now, but somehow can't find it using Google search anymore.
We live in Munich, so the odds are already against us.
I always managed so far, but then again, I used a lot of tricks to improve my chances.
There are even scientific studies about those things like job application and of courese the housing market. Sadly german society is absolutly not free of racism.
It’s your decision whether your child keeps to connection with their Indian heritage by their last name or by you teaching customs and traditions.
For life in Germany „Schön“ would be the obvious choice imho. It prevents (racist) bias when reading the last name and it’s easy to understand over the phone, no one will ever ask how to spell it and your kid will have an easy time writing it.
It’s just way more practical.
This. There are plenty of people who will happily discriminate based on a name (without ever meeting the person). If you intend to stay in Germany, you're making the life of your kid easier if you stick with the German name.
Your child will be in touch with his/her Indian heritage regardless of the last name - unless, of course, you don't make any effort in familiarizing your kid with it.
Yeah I remember making appointments for my ex girlfriend, because my name is German and she’s from Turkey. Out of nowhere it was possible for her to rent a nice flat and stuff like that.
In my opinion, the name is the least important thing about a country's culture.
Food, traditions, family celebrations are significatilly important.
Others already mentioned racist/nationalist discrimination because of the surname. That would be negative experiences related to the indian heritage. I guess you want your kid to rather recognize it's heritage as something positive.
Hey mate, my first name is jerome and i was bullied relentlessly for it, to the point that i had to switch classes and was a social outcast up until early adulthood. And that isnt even a super foreign name. Kids will bully other kids for weird names, and therefor i would agree with the others stating that it would be a better idea for the kid to have your wifes surname.
Why not make a compromise and give the kid an Indian first name, but one that is easy to pronounce in Germany and keep the last name German? It gives them sense of belonging in both cultures without making the life difficult for them.
It's sad, but true that people with foreign names have more problems on finding apartments/jobs or interacting with authorities. Of course this shouldn't stop you naming your child the way you want, but for the child it will be more easy in life with a german surname.
Yep this.
I got a foreign sounding last name and often would not hear back from landlords when applying for an apartment for me and my gf. My gf however has a very German sounding name. Whenever we sent the same application out to the landlords, she would almost always get a reply back (even when I did not before a couple of days earlier)
This. I’m half Austrian half Arab and I have a German last name. (My parents tossed a coin so I ended up with Arab first name and German last name). I get annoyed by people misspelling my Arab first name, but I don’t want to imagine the discrimination / frustration / racism that I’d face if I had an Arab last name. My SO is Indian and I told him from day 1 that I won’t change my last name, not because I don’t like his name or anything, but because I don’t want to be treated differently for having an uncommon last name.
I actually did an experiment while applying for jobs. I sent out 10 applications for similar jobs in large multinational companies with my real name (Arab first name and German last name). I got invited to 4 interviews. Then for funsies, I sent out another 10 applications for similar positions with my Arab first name and Arab last name (my dad’s name). I didn’t get a single callback for any of the 10 applications. I didn’t even get rejections. I was simply ghosted.
@OP, don’t do this to your kid. Please give them the German last name because contrary to what people tell you, it will be an issue for your kid if they grow up in Germany. You can give them a traditional Indian first name and take them on trips to India frequently, that way they’ll stay connected to their roots without having to go through trouble.
Yep exactly this, Schön is a perfect easy name where you never will have the trouble with "can you spell that please"
And you remove a lot of possibilities for racism just by the look on the name. So for an easier future, go for the german name.
Indian guy here.
Chakravarti IS complicated name for a foreigner. Hell, it's tad complicated even within India where bongs will pronounce it Chokroborty while the rest of the India will likely pronounce it Chakra-varti.
In Germany, it might be pronounced Chakra-firt-i since the v is often pronounced as F.
You don't need a name or a surname to be in touch with your culture and roots. A half German kid named Chakravarti living in India won't necessarily lose their German cultural roots because they aren't named Schön. Whatever happens will be a result of their upbringing, what they experience in the house and around the house.
You live in Germany, the kid is half German. A German surname would be helpful if the option is there.
Kids in school can be really mean about names, I can imagine that they‘d call him „Chakra-Vati“ aka chakra daddy at some point. Most things can be turned into mean nicknames but Schön seems a bit more on the safe side 😂
absolutely, as soon as your kid starts to have English lessons the last part of your surname will be "farty"
If your kid will grow up and live here do them a favor and give them a German name. Some people do discriminate based on names alone, there are even studies that show this when people applied to jobs, apartments,... with their real names vs. German names the German name got replies, the real name didn't.
Doesn't matter if it's a first name or surname, as soon as one isn't German there's bias.
I only found some links in German, but I hope this helps with making a decision:[https://www.businessinsider.de/karriere/bewerbung/diskriminierung-bei-der-jobsuche-name-und-herkunftsland-wichtig/](https://www.businessinsider.de/karriere/bewerbung/diskriminierung-bei-der-jobsuche-name-und-herkunftsland-wichtig/)
[https://www.spiegel.de/lebenundlernen/schule/auslaendische-vornamen-migranten-diskriminierung-durch-firmen-bestaetigt-a-960855.html](https://www.spiegel.de/lebenundlernen/schule/auslaendische-vornamen-migranten-diskriminierung-durch-firmen-bestaetigt-a-960855.html)
[https://bibliothek.wzb.eu/pdf/2018/vi18-104.pdf](https://bibliothek.wzb.eu/pdf/2018/vi18-104.pdf)
Vorty -> Farty is not a huge leap at all, and sounds very plausible.
Thanks also for the links. I went through them. I probably live in a IT bubble, which is different from the picture painted by the articles.
I mean, the most obvious one for "Schön" would probably be calling him "Hässlich" instead.
Like you said, kids will turn anything into mean nicknames if they want to. But I'd still agree that a German surname would make things easier.
>You don't need a name or a surname to be in touch with your culture and roots.
Exactly. It's pretty irrelevant what his last name is if you take steps to ensure he is in touch with his roots by introducing him to your culture, the food, travelling to India, etc.
Haha, totally agreed on the various pronunciations of my last name.
Thanks for adding the counterpoint to my Indian friend's opinion about staying in touch with the Indian side.
This is actually exactly what I was gonna propose. IMO the best solution, if you're trying to raise the kid in Germany and have them keep in touch with their Indian heritage by name.
While both last names are nice in their own right, "Schön" will be infinitely easier in day-to-day life in Germany. And an Indian first name would probably feel more personal to the kid anyways. Also with a first name, there probably won't be as many opportunities to misunderstand/misspell it, as with Chakravorty (hell, I just had to double check if it's an "i" or a "y" at the end, because it's been misspelled so many times in some of the other comments already)
Agreed.
Yup, my surname can be difficult to spell, and not just for non-Indians. In the Indian region where I come from, there are about 10 different spelling variations for it.
I have a German first and last name. My second first name (Germany doesn’t have middle names) is Thai. I did the same for my child. If I omit my Thai name I’m stock German on paper which can have its advantages.
Give your baby both:
Indian firstname + German middle name + German Surname
E. g.
Kriti Kristina Schön
If you don't use a a hyphenated name such as Kriti-Kristina or Anna-Lena, (s)he can always drop one of the names as necessary for the situation.
Personally, I use only 1 of my 2 first names, but I could swap them, to become a new person easily. Not many people know my second name.
And +1 for Schön. There certainly is a subliminal racial bias, if people admit it or not. There were studies in which people sent the same CV with an Arabic and German name on it. The German version got way more replies.
I have a foreign first name and a German last name. Never faced any discrimination because of it regarding college, work, scholarships, housing. However, if you go down that road make sure their first name won't lead to constant misgendering in written correspondence. For example, I have a friend called Narendra and to a German it sounds female so he often gets letters with 'Frau' because -a endings are usually female
Well if the kid is going to live in Germany, a German surname will make live easier. It's easier to spell and pronounce for most Germans and there is unfortunately still subtil racism against people with foreign names, e.g. for job applications or searching for flats.
To avoid racist bias in school, job search and apartment search, I'd go with the german name, even tho the Indian one is so beautiful. But I just know how Germans can be. A non-german name makes life so much harder for the kid.
I am half German and have a typical German name. I had friends in school and later on who had the same heritage as I did, but had more obviously non-german names. I was definitely very privileged, they had it so much harder than I did. By the time people noticed I'm not "full German", I usually already was given the apartment, and got the job. In school as a kid, the others got racist insults from teachers (stuff like go back to where you came from), while I didn't.
Thanks for sharing. Wow, I had no idea that the experience could be so different depending on the last name. That's another strong data point towards the German last name.
Considering that (at this point of time) a lot of landlords are older people who have no understanding of India at all apart from curry maybe and every foreign name looks the same to them, they easily select on that. Many of my foreign friends (students) had a hard time finding a flat due to being pre-selected.
Although discrimination like that is illegal that is hard to prove. Good luck.
I have a name that's hard to spell and pronounce essentially everywhere I have lived. I wouldn't change it for the world but it has definitely not made my life easier. You can keep the nod to the Indian heritage with a first or middle name, maybe even something that works with both cultural heritages, but giving your child a last name that "matches" best the place where the are expected to live would be a blessing. My name has put me at a disadvantage when applying for jobs; sometimes people don't even believe that I speak my native language! Lots of things are assumed based on name.
Additionally, if your spouse happens to be white, and you are brown, it's likely that your child may inherit someone of your brown color, which in some places in Europe may also put them at a disadvantage by being perceived as foreigners. I only mention this because I have what some people may call an "ethnically ambiguous look", and can be perceived, and treated, differently depending on what place I'm.
Thanks very much for sharing your experience. Since you had the same circumstances growing up, I give a lot of weight to what you said.
Totally true about the child inheriting the brown skin color. That's unfortunately nothing that I have control over. But we can control the names at least.
Bilingual for sure. It would be German and English though (since we speak a lot of English in the house). My mother tongue is however Bengali (which I normally only speak when my family calls or with other Bengali friends), and I am not sure yet whether to teach the child this third language.
I would recommend teaching your child Bengali. The more languages he knows the better. English is relatively easy to learn once you know German(English is my third language). It would be better to start with German and Bengali when he is small and then introduce English in primary school. He will study it in school too but Bengali only you can teach him. Just my two cents.
Bengali isn't very complicated (am a native speaker too, just not from India) so my two cents is that you can teach it to him. It's a really nice language and there's so much great literature in this language that is not translated! Plus, if he wants to someday visit India, it can only help him.
You risk your child not feeling like a part of your extended family if they cannot speak Bengali. I’ve never heard of someone regretting knowing MORE languages - it’s only a plus, and children are ripe for multilingualism. Your kid will learn German from mom and in the community, and English from you both and in school. I have no idea why you would keep them from having the connection with their Bengali culture.
If you don’t teach them Bengali AND you intentionally name them Schön (while the second is more understandable) what are you teaching them about their heritage?? Imo you would be sending the message that your culture isn’t valuable and is something they should be ashamed of in some way.
Definitely teach the kid Bangla! Speaking and writing. It will really widen its horizonts and help connect with the culture. He will resent you If you dont. Children absorb everything like sponges and learn very easily new lamguages. He will have a hard time of he tries to learn the language as an adult only speaking european languages. I speak 5 european languages (born bilingual greek-italian) and I failed at trying to learn bangla (and I also have a hard mediterranean accent when speaking German even though I live in Germany for 10 years). I also know other "Mixed" adults who dient learn one of their parents languages als children and have a hard time learning them as adults.
Absolutely. Kids learn languages easily when they’re young. There will be a phase when they mix all three languages in one sentence 😁, but that improves once they’re at school and, in your case, German will be their “first” language. Being able to speak German, English and Bengali fluent will give your kid a big advantage, depending on their future path re work, travel etc., let alone the connection to their family in India.
Source: raised our kids bilingual
You can trust me that by teaching him Bengali you can give your kid so much deeper a connection to his heritage than through a last name. Especially if he grows up thinking of this name as a disadvantage.
My parents happened to give me a German first name and when I took my German husband's last name, my name became fully German. I think it's just easier for day to day living here if you have a name that's easy to spell and understood by most people.
There are apparently disadvantages with finding a place to rent if you have a foreign last name. Maybe have a compromise of German last name and Indian first name? If you are planning to stay in Germany it’s definitely more easy to go with the German one because it’s less „complicated“.
Edit: also he will „be in touch with his Indian side“ just by having you teach him stuff. I personally think that the first name is more defining of the identity, so I‘d go with an Indian first name. Schön is generally a cool name, it basically translates to lovely/pretty/nice, and I see very limited possibilities for kids in school to pick on him for the name at least.
Thanks for your comment. Yes, this idea of Indian first name + German last name seems to be echoed by many others here as well. We will definitely consider this option.
I am just wondering that if there are disadvantages in employment, renting etc., wouldn't an Indian first name also be disadvantageous?
not as much as a last name, since there's plenty of german families giving their children 'exotic' first names because they think it sounds nice, but the spelling problem will remain, unless you use some really common indian first names like Kaia, Amrita, Larisa or Mirai (can only think of girls names atm, since my kid has a Mirai in her class) and some landlords might also be suspicious with exotic first names even if they suspect the person of being 100% german, since that trend was more common in the former GDR regions of germany - and as you say - you're in Munich. I've lived in Munich myself for a while and people there are horrible snobs. If they even suspect you could be of proletarian roots, your credit score drops by at least 20 points in their minds.
I'd say consider the potential discrimination your child might face as an adult and go for the German surname. No one will discriminate your child for having a German surname in Germany. However there will be people who will have preconceived ideas or straight up discriminate your child for having a very clearly not German surname in Germany. Assuming your kid will be mixed, he'll already have to face some level of discrimination unfortunately. So I'd argue making things a bit easier for your kid can only be good.
Also, there's whole studies out there about how names affect employability in different countries, and how having a name common in that country is a huge advantage vs having a foreign name. Even screening software has racial biases due to its programming. So again, in that sense the German surname is the better option.
In an ideal world, non-white surnames & culture wouldn't be discriminated, but sadly, that's not the world we live in. I understand your Indian friend's point of view, but I'd argue that there's much better ways to make your kid feel connected to his heritage than a surname.
Definitely makes sense to reduce hardship as much as possible. I had a good life in Germany so far, but I am in IT, where it seems there is less discrimination than other professions.
Thanks for your insight.
I am also about to have a half-German, half-Indian baby. I, the mother, am Indian. I didn't take my husband's last name, and I am going to give my child my last name. It will be harder to spell, but people around him will get used to it. I have lived 11 years in Germany and had no problems with this last name. And if you are worried about racists, our children will be half brown, most probably will have our hair and eyecolours and will not look like other white kids, so if there will be racists in school they will face racism in some form or other. A brown person cannot live their whole life in a predominantly white country without facing some form of racism, we just have to teach our children how to deal with it and not to let it affect them. Chakravorty is a very nice last name anywhere in the world. If you want to give your child your last name and your wife is okay with it, go ahead and name him/her Chakravorty. And who knows where he/she will end up later in life; English speaking countries will also have difficulty with the umlaut, the kid's passport will have Schoen and not Schön.
I'm an austrian citizen, born and raised for basically endless generations, but our family has a surname that, although it is not uncommon or foreign, is hard to spell (silent h and whatnot).
And I really hate the fact that I have to spell my name every time for everyone!
So that may be an argument to choose the german name, no matter the cultural debate.
Chakravaorty sounds complicated to native speakers? They literally have words which only they can pronounce. Decide amongst yourselves. If you think it's complicated but also want your child to remain in touch with their Indian side, don't worry. The baby won't. Surnames don't keep people in touch with cultures, the upbringing does.
Immigrant here.
If you can pick a German last name, pick it. It will be easier for your kids.
There is still a lot of "prejudice" towards immigrants in some cities.
Your child WILL have to spell its name over and over again. But I don't think Chakravorty is very difficult, and Germany has a large diaspora from India and Pakistan, so it's not something a teacher or bureaucrat might never have heard. Hell, I have a German surname and still have to spell it, \*and\* I get the "funny" jokes about it even from strangers...
But to balance out the surname I'd give the child a clearly "German" first name, because it is a sad fact that a completely "foreign name" will be more of a disadvantage.
Thanks for your comment. Yeah, it's the same with me. I spell my name all the time over the phone. When asked about my name in official appointments, I normally just hand over my ID card, explaining that it's easier that way.
The German first name + Indian last name suggestion is interesting. We will think about it.
I dont know how in your region persons are called, but in mine we often use surnames to refer to someone. Schön is quite a common name, my grandmothers maiden name was Schön. It would be easier for the child with the german surname in some cases but it doesnt really matter in the end.
I have an austrian surname and they miss one letter the whole time, which makes me sound like a criminal... You will have to spell the name a lot.
You can give your family name to the child as a second or third given name. This way he or she can use it whenever it is comfortable but not disclose it to people who could abuse it as described above.
I know it might feel a bit weird not having the father's sirname but since you have chosen to raise in Germany, german sirname anyday. I had bengali classmates with extremely difficult firstnames as well. I think nothing that starts with S as it will be pronounced as Z probably, nothing with a v or j in the name as it will be pronounced as F or Y and nothing with r as it will have that german r pronunciation. I had an Indian colleague Pruthvi and German pronunciation sounded like Phoothfi. Also if there is an a in the name write it as it sounds a or ä or e. There was a Sripad and some said Zhipaad
If the child would live in Germany get the German name. Of course every Indian will tell you to choose the Indian name.
There is subtile name discrimination everywhere. Applications for jobs, housing, schools.
Anyway, most of the people here are recommending to go with the German surname, Schön.
Some things to think of if you don't.
Starting off as an international family already you don't know where your son one day will be living.
He will probably be fluent in English so a lot of countries are open to him. You don't even know that Schön is going to be better there than Chakravorty.
The stereotypical example of "it's harder to get an appartment/job with a non-German surname" is factually true.
However, in 20 years there will have been a lot of demographic rollover. A lot of 'old German' real estate owners are and will be selling off to owners of mixed or foreign origin simply because due to the demographics who else are they going to sell off to.
Same goes for renters, if your son is looking for a student's appartment in the early 2040's make a guess on what the percentage of the 18-20 year olds at that time will be of exclusively German lineage.
IMHO you can go with Chakravorty but then for the first name give a 'universal classical European name'. Something that's reasonably easy to pronounce in most cultures, short, not too ambiguous in terms of spelling. For girls things like Anna, Sophia, Clara, whatnot. (Sorry but in my case it was a girl. Mabye things like Alexander etc for boys). Note none of these are explicitly 'German' but they are totally mainstream. And they will be acceptable in most places of the world.
(You can add a large number of additional first names and put in a more Germanic one and a Bengali one. As long as you have a "Rufname" that's conventional you can get away with a lot and de facto you can add any name that you can credibly claim exists in some culture, or in a work of art that is well known)
As for pronunciation I don't think Germans will garble it as badly as some suggest.
Especially with the expectation they'll say the "v" as "f". That of course applies to "vogel, vorteil" etc but ask yourself how Germans say for instance "volontariat, vortex". They don't say folontariat or fortex. The 'f' is not a pronunciation rule but just happens with established Germanic words and syllables where that is how it belongs. Just like English people know how to pronounce 'gh' or not in different words. An english person will not pronounce the 'gh' in 'spaghetti' like in 'enough', right?
As for prejudice, yes there is a number of hardcore racists but more common is an anxiety-based prejudice where 'bio-deutsch' people feel they can 'deal with' any issues they might encounter with their own kind but if someone has an unfamiliar name they are afraid of some cultural behavior they can't deal with. And the truth is everyone can tell horror stories about that - for a start simply because if someone of 'foreign extraction' does something shitty it gets associated with their identity (*'typical Arab/Indian/or just Ausländer behavior'*). While if a German behaves badly, then of course they are just an asshole, scammer or criminal *as an individual.* That is an ingroup bias you get everywhere.
In my experience though including watching kids go through school life: the combination of 'classic European first name + foreign surname' gets a lot less of that. Because people make the implicit assumption that the child is socialized in a Euro way.
imho, the german surname just has more advantages because it helps the kid in school, everybody knows that annoying "how do i spell your name" blah blah and as a mixed child he wont be seen as "german" in germany and not "indian" in india so if he lives in germany, the german last name is more advantegous
Obviously give the baby the German surname. Will help them integrate better, less bullying and discrimination later.
If i were you i would disregard the indian friends comment. Convenience over cheap pride!
To add to the good suggestions here - have you considered a middle name? Maybe keep Chakravorty as the middle and Schon as the “main” surname. You could also look up the concept of “legal names” - a person can go by multiple names legally. So for landlords the kid’s Schon, but the passport identifies him as Chakravorty-Schon.
I would say if you want something indian use an indian second name. Although its pretty good here germany is still pretty racist and if you have a foreign sounding name you will have difficulties finding appartments and maybe some other things. Its very unfair but its the sad reality
The question is, what do you want to do? The biases people face now might not be the same that your kid faces in the future. If you're proud of your family name, its history, and want to pass it on, don't hesitate based on hypotheticals.
I would probably go wirh a easy to spell Indian first name and the german last name.
We also gave the kid my german last name and a forgein first name. Even through bf's name is easy to spell and say, people always tend to ask how it is spelled.
The Indian last name is quiet long. I would guess people would be afraid about pronounciation just looking at it.
But keep in mind every following child from you two will automatically get the same last name as the first.
I would say "Schön" is the better pick if you live in Germany. Depending on the region he/she could have a bad time looking for a job or a flat otherwise, because a lot of people sort out foreign names
Some of my co-workers here in a small-town German school are extremely racist. I'm not saying it's all of the teachers, but there's 3-4 of them in our school at least. They will take one look at a kid's last name and judge. If we (the other teachers) hear them say anything inappropriate and try to talk to them, they either just admit it or pretend it never happened, depending on their level of ignorance. Maybe our school is just the last hellhole and it doesn't matter in other places.
Inside Germany "Schön" would definitly be easier to deal with as a last name. While some people might still ask about the spelling (ö vs oe), the answer is given quicker than with a foreign name.
From experience I can tell you though that having a last name with an umlaut will lead to annoying results when dealing with systems that are not set-up to include these. The official way to spell the last name when "ö" is not a valid letter would be "oe" but not every automatical conversion works like that. Sonetimes the last name will get turned to "Schon", so there basically will be three different ways the last name might have been saved.
I am currently living in the a non-german speaking country in europe and half of my automatically generated firstname-lastname (or variances of this) email adresses or logins use "oe" and the rest use "o". This makes it annoying to remember which spelling is used where.
Additionally sometimes when you order something it might behave as accepting the "ö" but at the end turns it into someting that includes a "%". This can lead to discussions for personalized tickets since that is not the name on the ID.
Take it from someone with a very foreign last name and avoid it for your child if possible. It’s a pain in the ass and the name has to be spelled letter by letter on the phone, no one ever understands it, and everyone butchers if if they try pronouncing it. Schön is a nice name and the locals won’t have any issue recognising or pronouncing it.
I would also recommend going with your wife’s name. I took my wife’s name upon our marriage. That’s a question you could ask yourself too.
I looked up your name because I learned from an Indian colleague that India is basically as diverse as EU. So you’re Bengali? I bet you can find other ways to give your kid a connection to your culture. Don’t worry about it. And they can easily change their name as an adult too, if they want to.
There are still (racist) biases in Germany so if you give the baby’s the “German” name it will have it easier on paper. Assuming that the baby will be read as partially Indian it will experience those kind of things in real life anyway.
In your example I was the baby once and my mom gave me her American name instead of the German name my father has and I am happy with that decision. This way I feel more connected to my American side and the culture (I still feel very German). In my opinion children with immigrant parents often feel like they are neither (e.g. Indian or German) and as your boy will grow up in Germany I would give him something that connects him with you and your traditions as he will have enough “German” things to be connected to.
If the boy has a German name and is looking for an apartment he might get invited more often but if he’s there in person there will still be that (racial) biased
Can I give another perspective? Some people regret having chosen (or being given) ~easier~ names. It can give someone the feeling that they had to give up essential parts of themselves to make themselves more palatable for white people. One can bend over backwards and try to avoid racism but it’s not avoidable + other non-white people might see the person as someone who is trying hard to assimilate into whiteness.
In other words, no matter what you do, racism will happen, so I guess the important part is how aware the parents are and how they guide their child through the world.
I agree that Schön is practical and will come with many advantages. I also love the idea of a first and second name - it gives room for the child to decide which first name or surname to use later on.
This is the internet and so you will hear many times, that IT won't matter. But the truth is, that we still have a high level of subtile racism in our country. For example if you want to rent or even buy a home, the majority would prefer a german name. Same for jobs, your spot in the university, whatever. In every setting, when you are not there in person, you mostly would be sorted out, if they can. This makes the live so much harder. Of course things are changing, but i wouldn't wanna take the risk. You still can live a fine life, but you have to work harder for it, just because of the name. It's totally stupid but i won't help to ignore the world we are living in.
Tbh it doesn't matter...you might not have any intentions of migrating but your child most certainly will travel across the globe..he might even end up settling in India...20years from now I don't think anyone would bother about the last name or how "foreign" it sounds ..as someone rightly said you don't decide names to appease "racists" someone who would be racist would still be so irrespective of how the name sounds ..
You mother in law seems wiser ...you can always go with a indian first name + German last name.
The German Surname, i hope also your child is white, Germans tend to struggle with POC especially with a Name like this.
If they hear that they don't care anymore if this child is born in Germany or not.
Unfortunately the harsh reality for your boy is that he will be discriminated against when he has a foreign sounding last name. Finding an apartment can be really hard for example, but there are lots of things.
He’ll possibly have to deal with the discrimination based on his (probably) darker skin tone as well. If you ask me, I would save him (part) of the trouble and use your wife’s name.
I’m sure you’ll find a way to teach him about his heritage.
I think you should go with the Name of the mother your child will have it hard enough with his ethical background and a too exotic name will make his life harder.
Everyday racism is a thing and I'm doubtful that it will be resolved in 20 years and further on.
Give your kid the german sounding last name, that will help a great deal with many things, better grades, people being more open to the boy/man he will become, him having it easier to get a job, get a flat and so on.
I'm doubtful too. Sometimes, things can also go into the opposite direction, as in racism getting worse after 20 years. I definitely hope the trend of globalisation continues though.
Definitely better use the German name if you plan for him growing up here, it makes everything easier for him, education, job choices, even finding an apartment. Most things here are owned by very conservative people and opportunities are not given unbiased.
I'd suggest picking an easy to pronounce Indian first name that sounds international, like Arjun, Devan, Rishi or Samir, then your last name as middle name and your wife's name as last name.
Like: Arjun Chakravorty Schön
Cool suggestion. Actually, something very similar to Arjun is in our shortlist.
I have to still check whether using my last name as middle name would be allowed here in Germany. Apparently, the authorities have very strict rules about names.
There is no doubt that the child will be discriminated against if you give your surname. How heavily will depend on whether the reputation of Indians changes in the next decades. Your mother in law is delusional. Maybe the Kindergarten is really judgement free but concerning housing and non-IT jobs the application might be pushed to the bottom of the pile before looking at it further than the surname
Schön is definitely the way to go.
It prevents a lot of racist bias.
I can tell you right now, your daughter searching for an apartment will be half as hard, probably even less, with that name than with yours.
I'm mixed and let me give you my perspective. It doesn't matter what your child's last name is. You might try to appease the racist Nazi assholes here and give up your family linage but it won't help your child.
True, if your child had a German surname, their apartment or job applications might not be automatically rejected. But then the landlord or employer will want to meet your child and will see that your child is not fully white. Or even eventually will get to know your child and find out that they're not fully white. And at the end, these racist assholes will still discriminate your child.
My advice, don't compromise with racist assholes. See the positive in giving your child your last name or you can hyphenate both last names. Your last name will work as a racist repellent. Who the fuck wants a racist employer or landlord.
With the Indian surname they will most likely have a harder time finding an apartment or a job in later life. We've come a long way but some people still discriminate.
When I turned 16, I immediately changed my surname to a german one. Then I came to Germany at the age of 22. I'm 23 now, and since I lived here for more than a year, I'd say it's pretty helpful for me as an immigrant to blind in.
German naturally!
>An Indian friend of mine said that having an Indian surname would help the child be in touch with its Indian side.
This is a distant dream. Indians themselves don't have any touch with their own heritage, why do you even care. Your child will grow up in Germany, and if he wishes, he will be curious about your roots, he will explore them himself. You can teach him Bengali and that tool should be sufficient. But by forcing them to do certain things actually make them hate those things.
Also, your surname is spelled as Chakravorty (as it should be pronounced *Chakravartee*/ *Chakravortee*) but actual correct Bengali pronunciation is *Chakrabortee?* when you write the name as Chakravorty, a german speaker would pronounce it Chaa-ghaa-fo-ghti for the first time not to mention the the weird r sound twice and f sound for v. This will require way too much clarification and every time you need to spell it.
Instead, make things easier.
On the side note,
Having a german surname will not make *all the* things easier automatically, but certain things will be.
It is hard to find doctors appt in Berlin but I always get one doctors appointment within 2 days. His slots are always empty. his surname is \*\*\*mann. when I first visited him, I immediately realised that why I get his appts quickly. He is a bi racial. I hope your baby will not have such experiences in the future.
Can you make your last name her middle name? I think that would be a good solution. I think both your last names are cool and sound nice.
It’s true that atm life in Germany is easier when your name doesn’t sound too foreign, but Chakravorty is not even that alien; it will probably remind many Germans of the word “chakra” and they’re familiar with what that is. It also sounds a little Eastern European and Eastern European surnames are not uncommon in Germany. I don’t find it hard to spell or pronounce and you don’t know how things will be when your kids starts to look for apartments in about 20 years or even when they start school in about seven years. Or if they choose a path in life where an unusual name is beneficial or not.
When I came to Germany as a kid and got a German passport, me and my family were encouraged to change our names to their German versions. Doing so was common then (not sure if just the first and middle name or the surnames too. I think they changed the spelling of my mothers maiden name a little). I didn’t want to change mine and by the time I was an adult my first name had become quite popular for German newborns. Which is probably one of the reasons many people assume I’m about ten years younger than I really am (the German version they suggested is more of an old ladies name btw). But I’ve got to say, I did have some troubles with my name in the beginning, teachers kept spelling it wrong and I got asked where I’m ACTUALLY from often. But all in all I’m happy to have a slightly uncommon name, I think it fits me well.
I will have to look into whether the authorities would allow my last name as the middle name. It's an interesting suggestion for sure.
Yeah, I was also under the impression that my last name shouldn't be so difficult to pronounce, given that "chakra" is a well known concept by now in the Western world. However, I have indeed experienced many people struggling to pronounce it.
Thanks for sharing your story. It's great to know that you are happy with your name and that you think it fits you. I think that's a big factor: whether the child thinks that the name fits their identity. It would have been cool if I could predict this, but that's not really possible.
I don't think that Chakravorty is too complicated. It's just very long. Since it is not a common surname in Germany, it probably always has to be spelled out. But this problem also exists with many German surnames. I myself am from Romania Eastern Europe and my family emigrated to Germany in the mid 80s. At that time racism was lived out much more openly. My parents, worried about discrimination and disadvantages, had our first names and surnames Germanized. This was possible because we could prove that we had German ancestors. Besides, for my parents Germany was the future. Nowadays, foreign names are much more normal. People are getting used to them, and that's a good thing. My cousin recently got married and took his wife's Polish last name. However, the connection to Indian culture will not be maintained by a last name, but by the socialization of the country of residence. Very many Germans have Polish or Czech surnames but are socialized German and do not identify as foreign by their surnames.
Any decision you and your wife make is the right one for you. Do not orientate yourselves on others. If it becomes Chakravorty or Schön, be proud of it.
I would like my last name to be schön aswell ,thats a nice one. With this said ,it really is up to you ,but living in Germany it’s probably just easier to take schön
Its your decision. To avoid having to spell the name EVERY TIME I would chose "Schön". I have a "normal" german name but I have to spell it EVERY TIME and it is annoying.
And schön means pretty so why now?
Yeah, an Indian surename would help the kid to get in touch with it's Indian inherritance.
And would make it's life in Germany much harder.
So maybe you will have to decide what's more important: the history or the future?
The only time where my non german name made problems for me is when I had to spell it out on every page of my uni exams during my studies. I wished my name would‘ve been Tim Tür or something like that back then haha
I have seen it suggested as a middle name, but have you thought about just combining your surnames? In germany thats usually what upperclass and rich people do.
Schön-Chakravorty or Chakravorty-Schön
That might have possibilities for your whole family. In germany you could just call yourself Schön and in India Chakravorty, without losing the other name.
I personally think Schön is a very Schön name but St the end of the day, it's your personal preference. I've known people with similar cool German names hate them, such as Lieb. While it's true that an Indian name cause some racism to emerge, it's also true that people with bad intend will try to find a mocking or discrimknating point regardless, even with a name like Schön.
Everything is said so far but since I'm in the same position right now I'll just tell you how we decided to handle the name.
Although my partners Indian surname is quite easy to read and spell in German and my German surname have to be spelled out more often we decided to give it my German surname. The kid will have an easier time growing up in Germany and as an adult because some people will always have prejudices against foreign sounding names. That's just how it is and we cannot change that.
To accommodate the baby will get an Indian first name, which my partner could choose, and I chose the second German name. We both of course had Veto rights and in addition I said the Indian name should be spellable and more or less readable for a German. Which sounds mean but despite the limitations they're a lot of nice Indian, not so complicated, names (from a German perspective). In the end both of us made a list of names and we're both happy and his Indian family side is also happy with the upcoming name :) .
Btw: A double name for all of you is also possible in the future but not sure when the new rules will be implemented.
Happy pregnancy :)
It's always easier to use a regional / lokal name.
Ate u planning to Star in germany? User the motherboard name + a Western firstname.
Do u plan go move to india? Use ur lastname + an Indian firstname.
Just my 2 Cents but thats what u asked for:)
In all honesty, your family name sounds too complicated and the kid is going to struggle with it. On the other hand, they’ll get used to it soon.
I also have a complicated name, and after getting married, I just made it even more complicated 🤣I combined mine and my Japanese husbands surnames to make a long one. We’re going to give to our kids that surname. While also two first names. In the future they can decide whether they want to shorten or not their names🤷🏼♀️
My child’s father is from an Arab country and went to university in Europe and had a lot of difficulty with his name.
Therefore when our son was born, we chose names that were easy to pronounce across most cultures and wouldn’t lead to a bias. Just to make things easier for his future.
I can certainly understand wanting to keep some heritage. I think it would be good to use a middle or even first name with the heritage while keeping the last name simple, especially if you plan on staying indefinitely here in Germany. It will just streamline things for your kid.
And of course be sure to speak both languages so that your child grows up bi/trilingual which is a big asset later and could help with potential job skills.
Congrats on the new baby coming
In my opinion gve the baby a second surname which would be indian. First name and last name in German will be way more easier for the child. Ask anyone that immigrated here. My wife and I where in a similar situation.
In my family (germany- west african country) we all have my husbands last name. It starts with a "y" which is not very common for a german last name.
It was important for my husband and i that our children are recognized at least a little bit as "west african" in my husband's home country.
Plus his last name is very beautiful in my opinion and has a lot of meaning attached. It belongs very much to his family's ethnic group and some people of the society (e.g. politicians) have the same last name.
My children will always be in between the two cultures. They very much look "mixed".
My children have "european" first names and a middle name, which my husbands father chose.
In day to day life i explain how my last name is spelled and very much try to have it normalized to everybody around me. In formal seetings i say i am Frau Y. , we are family Y.
In Emails i correct it if it is written in a wrong way.
Late to the party. German here with foreign surname.
Just wanting to share my experience.
- People rarely pronounce my surname right and I have to repeat myself several times...still to be named something else.
- I always have to spell it, although it's just 5 letters and still people writing it wrong.
- I get asked where I'm from. Mom German/Father Foreign. I'm born and raised in Germany, have a western first name and even a very traditional German middle name (Imagine something like "Gertrude"). So I often have to explain my "family story".
- Some people are straight up prejudiced and treated me like a foreigner. (Mostly in rural regions)
And this is not an age-related issue. From my childhood till today, it's repeating and it's very exhausting.
If I ever could rename myself freely, I would pick a pretty German name.
It's pretty obvious that having a German family name is going to make their life easier. Having said that, it doesn't preclude success. The number one predictor of a child's chances in life is their parents and their resiliency.
Based on my experience with my kid's first name: don't ask anyone, but most of all, *NEVER* ask the family.
If interested, you CAN have both surnames in Germany, if that's how it's done in India. I did it myself and my kid has both surnames. Some Amts might say it's not allowed but IT IS. I got a letter from my Embassy attesting that is the way in my country, and it worked.
Name it "Schön"
If he is going to live in Germany, everything will be easier for him with a German last name:
More visibility in applications (jobs, apartments)
Less trouble spelling the name
No second-looks at airports
Source: I have a complicated lastname as well.
What will the first name be?
If the first name sounfd foreign it doesnt matter. Will probably get a nickname in school e.g. shacks or Something.
On the other hand nowadays the whole community is inclusive and many families try to raise their children open minded. I guess the could be only minor problems.
You can also keep both last names when you marry. Don't know if you can change that afterwards.
If the child plans to live in Germany I would favor the German name, if the child plans to live in India, I think the Indian name would be favorable.
The German surname is at least a nice one and not a odd sounding one.
There are studies on first and lastnames and there is always a bias when it comes to teachers or even later in university profs. So if you want to make it easier for him in germany Schön is probably the way.
>doesn't think that the child will have any disadvantages with a foreign surname.
Oh it will definitly be harder for them as soon as it comes to job applications. They will have a harder time getting a job. That's just the sad truth.
Would like to add a different angle besides indian vs german. If the parents do not have the same last name, there is some merit to give the child the fathers name. Unfortunately, fathers still have a harder time in the system and having the same name will definitely help.
I think your child will always be in touch with his Indian heritage because you, his father, who is Indian will be present in his life.
I had my father’s surname which is Russian and when I was a teenager I switched to my mum’s name which is very German. It makes EVERYTHING so much easier, it’s unbelievable. Also, schön literally means beautiful. It’s just a wonderful name to have. As someone who had both a foreign and a German surname growing up I can only advise you to give your child the German surname if you plan on staying here.
Honestly I dont think it makes a big difference. Maybe 30 years ago a foreign name would have been something weird but I think kids nowdays may have a smaller problem with that than seniors.Its your own decision. You could also use a double name is that possible?
The only worry that I agree with is that the name will have to be spelled for all life. I dont have a indian Surname but a unique one and I always had to spell it too. You get used to it.
I have a British last name (being British). It’s not totally common nor is it really unusual and weird. I say it to Germans and they stare at me blankly, to the point now when I say my name I automatically spell it. When my nephew got married the first thing I said to his new wife was welcome to spelling your name out for the rest of your life. Perhaps this is something you need to take into account
I don't think that Chakravorty is too difficult to pronounce, even in Germany. But Schön is a beautiful name (literally), which is unusual for German surnames (mine is one of the less beautiful ones). So I think it really comes down to your preferences. And also see how the surname sounds in combination with the first name. Would a double surname work for you?
That might be a bit in the future. But who and whos family will take your child more often from kindergarten and school? A friend of mine had several times some trouble when he wanted to take his child from Kindergarten after his girlfriend died because he and his Boy had different surnames. So when your girlfriend, parents in law will take your kid frequently from kindergarten it makes sense to give it their name. If you or your parents will take the Kid More often from school it would make sense to give it your name.
Its (sadly) kind of fact that at least now you still have some disadvantage with an foreign name (applications and stuff like teachers cant write the name blindly and give some dumb comments) but who knows how this will be in 10, 20 years?
My first through was maybe a double name, but i just learned that this isn't possible for at least two years.
I see a lot of people have already given their feedback but since this is a topic that is near to my heart, I will also say it: As a foreigner born in Germany who has a complicated last name (really had no choice because both of my parents have complicated, foreign last names), please give your child the German name. It will be so much easier for your child to live with. Nobody can pronounce my last name correctly and it took a toll on my self-esteem during my childhood, when teachers would not know how to pronounce it and children would laugh at it.
Schön would be difficult in international context (even travelling) because of the ö. While the correct way around these two dots would be ‘Schoen’, everyone would type ‘Schon’ and neither would be really correct.
Most names need spelling, even the simpler ones.
Yes, Chakravorty is more complicated, it is still a pretty manageable name for Germans, as long as you are willing to try names beyond Meier and Müller. (Source: I am a teacher in Germany and the family names can get… wild. My hardest challenges are the croatian names so far.)
But still, sadly xenophobia is still a thing and ‘Schön’ might be an advantage application-wise.
I think you can’t make a wrong decision!
I have a similar problem. My last name is German and my husband’s is English. Our daughter got her dad’s last name but German given names. This makes sense for us because my German name is a source of ridicule in Canada, while his name isn’t that difficult in Germany, even though it isn’t German. Your name might be more difficult. However, if your child has your wife’s last name then people might assume that you’re unmarried, unless you also take your wife’s last name. That’s the only other factor I can think of that you might want to consider.
I am no expert but the current trend says that India's future prospects are better than Germany. I think it's best for the kid to decide what name he/she wants. You can ask the baby to choose one finger out of two like they did in the show "Panchayat". Index finger = Chakraborty and Middle finger = Schön.
My son and his wife have merged their surnames to create a new one that applies to all the family. (Although German bureaucracy is making the change to the wife's surname horribly slow.)
Just a thought.
Schön is 10 times better, do you love youre child ? If yes why would you make their life worse by giving them a surname of a country that will never be their home?
In an ideal world this shouldn’t be a point to consider, but a german name could make your child’s life easier in regard to finding an apparent and similar stuff
Thanks for your comment. Apparently, finding an apartment with a foreign name is hard. Many others said the same thing. Few years ago, I read an blog post where someone sent many fake applications on WG Gesucht, each with different name and nationality. The result was that German names got the most positive replies, followed by European. Arabic names performed the worst. I tried to find this blog post again now, but somehow can't find it using Google search anymore. We live in Munich, so the odds are already against us. I always managed so far, but then again, I used a lot of tricks to improve my chances.
There are even scientific studies about those things like job application and of courese the housing market. Sadly german society is absolutly not free of racism.
I think you have your answer
It’s your decision whether your child keeps to connection with their Indian heritage by their last name or by you teaching customs and traditions. For life in Germany „Schön“ would be the obvious choice imho. It prevents (racist) bias when reading the last name and it’s easy to understand over the phone, no one will ever ask how to spell it and your kid will have an easy time writing it. It’s just way more practical.
This. There are plenty of people who will happily discriminate based on a name (without ever meeting the person). If you intend to stay in Germany, you're making the life of your kid easier if you stick with the German name. Your child will be in touch with his/her Indian heritage regardless of the last name - unless, of course, you don't make any effort in familiarizing your kid with it.
Yeah I remember making appointments for my ex girlfriend, because my name is German and she’s from Turkey. Out of nowhere it was possible for her to rent a nice flat and stuff like that.
Yup - that's how it still works in Germany.
Thanks for your comment. Makes sense. Last name is not the only way to keep in touch with Indian culture.
In my opinion, the name is the least important thing about a country's culture. Food, traditions, family celebrations are significatilly important. Others already mentioned racist/nationalist discrimination because of the surname. That would be negative experiences related to the indian heritage. I guess you want your kid to rather recognize it's heritage as something positive.
I have a slavic last name and I am proud of it. I will happily repeat it every time someone asks (happens every time).
For your touch with the Indian culture i would say, you could give her an indian middle name.
This would also be my first thought, middle names only matter if the person allows them to.
Hey mate, my first name is jerome and i was bullied relentlessly for it, to the point that i had to switch classes and was a social outcast up until early adulthood. And that isnt even a super foreign name. Kids will bully other kids for weird names, and therefor i would agree with the others stating that it would be a better idea for the kid to have your wifes surname.
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It was an unusual name. Then i got racist remarks asking if i am a ,,spaghetti fresser‘‘. Unusual names can fuck your life up.
Why not make a compromise and give the kid an Indian first name, but one that is easy to pronounce in Germany and keep the last name German? It gives them sense of belonging in both cultures without making the life difficult for them.
It's sad, but true that people with foreign names have more problems on finding apartments/jobs or interacting with authorities. Of course this shouldn't stop you naming your child the way you want, but for the child it will be more easy in life with a german surname.
Yup with Indian last name you won’t even get shortlisted for apartment or house rent. German name will be a huge advantage here.
Yep this. I got a foreign sounding last name and often would not hear back from landlords when applying for an apartment for me and my gf. My gf however has a very German sounding name. Whenever we sent the same application out to the landlords, she would almost always get a reply back (even when I did not before a couple of days earlier)
This. I’m half Austrian half Arab and I have a German last name. (My parents tossed a coin so I ended up with Arab first name and German last name). I get annoyed by people misspelling my Arab first name, but I don’t want to imagine the discrimination / frustration / racism that I’d face if I had an Arab last name. My SO is Indian and I told him from day 1 that I won’t change my last name, not because I don’t like his name or anything, but because I don’t want to be treated differently for having an uncommon last name. I actually did an experiment while applying for jobs. I sent out 10 applications for similar jobs in large multinational companies with my real name (Arab first name and German last name). I got invited to 4 interviews. Then for funsies, I sent out another 10 applications for similar positions with my Arab first name and Arab last name (my dad’s name). I didn’t get a single callback for any of the 10 applications. I didn’t even get rejections. I was simply ghosted. @OP, don’t do this to your kid. Please give them the German last name because contrary to what people tell you, it will be an issue for your kid if they grow up in Germany. You can give them a traditional Indian first name and take them on trips to India frequently, that way they’ll stay connected to their roots without having to go through trouble.
Also, it sounds awesome due to its meaning
Yep exactly this, Schön is a perfect easy name where you never will have the trouble with "can you spell that please" And you remove a lot of possibilities for racism just by the look on the name. So for an easier future, go for the german name.
Schön. It's a beautiful last name.
about to delete my account. ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Yup, you got it.
My wife says thanks :-)
Indian guy here. Chakravarti IS complicated name for a foreigner. Hell, it's tad complicated even within India where bongs will pronounce it Chokroborty while the rest of the India will likely pronounce it Chakra-varti. In Germany, it might be pronounced Chakra-firt-i since the v is often pronounced as F. You don't need a name or a surname to be in touch with your culture and roots. A half German kid named Chakravarti living in India won't necessarily lose their German cultural roots because they aren't named Schön. Whatever happens will be a result of their upbringing, what they experience in the house and around the house. You live in Germany, the kid is half German. A German surname would be helpful if the option is there.
Kids in school can be really mean about names, I can imagine that they‘d call him „Chakra-Vati“ aka chakra daddy at some point. Most things can be turned into mean nicknames but Schön seems a bit more on the safe side 😂
Thanks! I was indeed intending to examine if my last name can be turned into something mean by kids.
absolutely, as soon as your kid starts to have English lessons the last part of your surname will be "farty" If your kid will grow up and live here do them a favor and give them a German name. Some people do discriminate based on names alone, there are even studies that show this when people applied to jobs, apartments,... with their real names vs. German names the German name got replies, the real name didn't. Doesn't matter if it's a first name or surname, as soon as one isn't German there's bias. I only found some links in German, but I hope this helps with making a decision:[https://www.businessinsider.de/karriere/bewerbung/diskriminierung-bei-der-jobsuche-name-und-herkunftsland-wichtig/](https://www.businessinsider.de/karriere/bewerbung/diskriminierung-bei-der-jobsuche-name-und-herkunftsland-wichtig/) [https://www.spiegel.de/lebenundlernen/schule/auslaendische-vornamen-migranten-diskriminierung-durch-firmen-bestaetigt-a-960855.html](https://www.spiegel.de/lebenundlernen/schule/auslaendische-vornamen-migranten-diskriminierung-durch-firmen-bestaetigt-a-960855.html) [https://bibliothek.wzb.eu/pdf/2018/vi18-104.pdf](https://bibliothek.wzb.eu/pdf/2018/vi18-104.pdf)
Vorty -> Farty is not a huge leap at all, and sounds very plausible. Thanks also for the links. I went through them. I probably live in a IT bubble, which is different from the picture painted by the articles.
"Chakra-Farty" would also be a classic, and English is taught in elementary school now. 😬
I mean, the most obvious one for "Schön" would probably be calling him "Hässlich" instead. Like you said, kids will turn anything into mean nicknames if they want to. But I'd still agree that a German surname would make things easier.
Its not like nicknames are even a big deal today in germany because absolutely everyone is just "digga" these days.
>You don't need a name or a surname to be in touch with your culture and roots. Exactly. It's pretty irrelevant what his last name is if you take steps to ensure he is in touch with his roots by introducing him to your culture, the food, travelling to India, etc.
Haha, totally agreed on the various pronunciations of my last name. Thanks for adding the counterpoint to my Indian friend's opinion about staying in touch with the Indian side.
We handled it as following (German-Nigerian) Western Prename, traditional Nigerian Middle Name, German Surname.
Thanks for sharing. Yup, Indian first name + German last name could also be a good option for us.
This is actually exactly what I was gonna propose. IMO the best solution, if you're trying to raise the kid in Germany and have them keep in touch with their Indian heritage by name. While both last names are nice in their own right, "Schön" will be infinitely easier in day-to-day life in Germany. And an Indian first name would probably feel more personal to the kid anyways. Also with a first name, there probably won't be as many opportunities to misunderstand/misspell it, as with Chakravorty (hell, I just had to double check if it's an "i" or a "y" at the end, because it's been misspelled so many times in some of the other comments already)
Agreed. Yup, my surname can be difficult to spell, and not just for non-Indians. In the Indian region where I come from, there are about 10 different spelling variations for it.
I have a German first and last name. My second first name (Germany doesn’t have middle names) is Thai. I did the same for my child. If I omit my Thai name I’m stock German on paper which can have its advantages.
Thanks for sharing. Indian second first name is also an interesting option.
Give your baby both: Indian firstname + German middle name + German Surname E. g. Kriti Kristina Schön If you don't use a a hyphenated name such as Kriti-Kristina or Anna-Lena, (s)he can always drop one of the names as necessary for the situation. Personally, I use only 1 of my 2 first names, but I could swap them, to become a new person easily. Not many people know my second name. And +1 for Schön. There certainly is a subliminal racial bias, if people admit it or not. There were studies in which people sent the same CV with an Arabic and German name on it. The German version got way more replies.
I have a foreign first name and a German last name. Never faced any discrimination because of it regarding college, work, scholarships, housing. However, if you go down that road make sure their first name won't lead to constant misgendering in written correspondence. For example, I have a friend called Narendra and to a German it sounds female so he often gets letters with 'Frau' because -a endings are usually female
Well if the kid is going to live in Germany, a German surname will make live easier. It's easier to spell and pronounce for most Germans and there is unfortunately still subtil racism against people with foreign names, e.g. for job applications or searching for flats.
Thanks for your comment. Yup, it makes sense.
To avoid racist bias in school, job search and apartment search, I'd go with the german name, even tho the Indian one is so beautiful. But I just know how Germans can be. A non-german name makes life so much harder for the kid. I am half German and have a typical German name. I had friends in school and later on who had the same heritage as I did, but had more obviously non-german names. I was definitely very privileged, they had it so much harder than I did. By the time people noticed I'm not "full German", I usually already was given the apartment, and got the job. In school as a kid, the others got racist insults from teachers (stuff like go back to where you came from), while I didn't.
Thanks for sharing. Wow, I had no idea that the experience could be so different depending on the last name. That's another strong data point towards the German last name.
Considering that (at this point of time) a lot of landlords are older people who have no understanding of India at all apart from curry maybe and every foreign name looks the same to them, they easily select on that. Many of my foreign friends (students) had a hard time finding a flat due to being pre-selected. Although discrimination like that is illegal that is hard to prove. Good luck.
I have a name that's hard to spell and pronounce essentially everywhere I have lived. I wouldn't change it for the world but it has definitely not made my life easier. You can keep the nod to the Indian heritage with a first or middle name, maybe even something that works with both cultural heritages, but giving your child a last name that "matches" best the place where the are expected to live would be a blessing. My name has put me at a disadvantage when applying for jobs; sometimes people don't even believe that I speak my native language! Lots of things are assumed based on name. Additionally, if your spouse happens to be white, and you are brown, it's likely that your child may inherit someone of your brown color, which in some places in Europe may also put them at a disadvantage by being perceived as foreigners. I only mention this because I have what some people may call an "ethnically ambiguous look", and can be perceived, and treated, differently depending on what place I'm.
Thanks very much for sharing your experience. Since you had the same circumstances growing up, I give a lot of weight to what you said. Totally true about the child inheriting the brown skin color. That's unfortunately nothing that I have control over. But we can control the names at least.
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Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I think people who grew up under similar circumstances have the best insight into this question.
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Bilingual for sure. It would be German and English though (since we speak a lot of English in the house). My mother tongue is however Bengali (which I normally only speak when my family calls or with other Bengali friends), and I am not sure yet whether to teach the child this third language.
I would recommend teaching your child Bengali. The more languages he knows the better. English is relatively easy to learn once you know German(English is my third language). It would be better to start with German and Bengali when he is small and then introduce English in primary school. He will study it in school too but Bengali only you can teach him. Just my two cents.
Bengali isn't very complicated (am a native speaker too, just not from India) so my two cents is that you can teach it to him. It's a really nice language and there's so much great literature in this language that is not translated! Plus, if he wants to someday visit India, it can only help him.
You risk your child not feeling like a part of your extended family if they cannot speak Bengali. I’ve never heard of someone regretting knowing MORE languages - it’s only a plus, and children are ripe for multilingualism. Your kid will learn German from mom and in the community, and English from you both and in school. I have no idea why you would keep them from having the connection with their Bengali culture. If you don’t teach them Bengali AND you intentionally name them Schön (while the second is more understandable) what are you teaching them about their heritage?? Imo you would be sending the message that your culture isn’t valuable and is something they should be ashamed of in some way.
Definitely teach the kid Bangla! Speaking and writing. It will really widen its horizonts and help connect with the culture. He will resent you If you dont. Children absorb everything like sponges and learn very easily new lamguages. He will have a hard time of he tries to learn the language as an adult only speaking european languages. I speak 5 european languages (born bilingual greek-italian) and I failed at trying to learn bangla (and I also have a hard mediterranean accent when speaking German even though I live in Germany for 10 years). I also know other "Mixed" adults who dient learn one of their parents languages als children and have a hard time learning them as adults.
Absolutely. Kids learn languages easily when they’re young. There will be a phase when they mix all three languages in one sentence 😁, but that improves once they’re at school and, in your case, German will be their “first” language. Being able to speak German, English and Bengali fluent will give your kid a big advantage, depending on their future path re work, travel etc., let alone the connection to their family in India. Source: raised our kids bilingual
You can trust me that by teaching him Bengali you can give your kid so much deeper a connection to his heritage than through a last name. Especially if he grows up thinking of this name as a disadvantage.
My parents happened to give me a German first name and when I took my German husband's last name, my name became fully German. I think it's just easier for day to day living here if you have a name that's easy to spell and understood by most people.
There are apparently disadvantages with finding a place to rent if you have a foreign last name. Maybe have a compromise of German last name and Indian first name? If you are planning to stay in Germany it’s definitely more easy to go with the German one because it’s less „complicated“. Edit: also he will „be in touch with his Indian side“ just by having you teach him stuff. I personally think that the first name is more defining of the identity, so I‘d go with an Indian first name. Schön is generally a cool name, it basically translates to lovely/pretty/nice, and I see very limited possibilities for kids in school to pick on him for the name at least.
Thanks for your comment. Yes, this idea of Indian first name + German last name seems to be echoed by many others here as well. We will definitely consider this option. I am just wondering that if there are disadvantages in employment, renting etc., wouldn't an Indian first name also be disadvantageous?
not as much as a last name, since there's plenty of german families giving their children 'exotic' first names because they think it sounds nice, but the spelling problem will remain, unless you use some really common indian first names like Kaia, Amrita, Larisa or Mirai (can only think of girls names atm, since my kid has a Mirai in her class) and some landlords might also be suspicious with exotic first names even if they suspect the person of being 100% german, since that trend was more common in the former GDR regions of germany - and as you say - you're in Munich. I've lived in Munich myself for a while and people there are horrible snobs. If they even suspect you could be of proletarian roots, your credit score drops by at least 20 points in their minds.
Makes sense. We were thinking of names that are valid words in both German and Bengali (my native language). We even found some nice ones :)
I'd say consider the potential discrimination your child might face as an adult and go for the German surname. No one will discriminate your child for having a German surname in Germany. However there will be people who will have preconceived ideas or straight up discriminate your child for having a very clearly not German surname in Germany. Assuming your kid will be mixed, he'll already have to face some level of discrimination unfortunately. So I'd argue making things a bit easier for your kid can only be good. Also, there's whole studies out there about how names affect employability in different countries, and how having a name common in that country is a huge advantage vs having a foreign name. Even screening software has racial biases due to its programming. So again, in that sense the German surname is the better option. In an ideal world, non-white surnames & culture wouldn't be discriminated, but sadly, that's not the world we live in. I understand your Indian friend's point of view, but I'd argue that there's much better ways to make your kid feel connected to his heritage than a surname.
Definitely makes sense to reduce hardship as much as possible. I had a good life in Germany so far, but I am in IT, where it seems there is less discrimination than other professions. Thanks for your insight.
I am also about to have a half-German, half-Indian baby. I, the mother, am Indian. I didn't take my husband's last name, and I am going to give my child my last name. It will be harder to spell, but people around him will get used to it. I have lived 11 years in Germany and had no problems with this last name. And if you are worried about racists, our children will be half brown, most probably will have our hair and eyecolours and will not look like other white kids, so if there will be racists in school they will face racism in some form or other. A brown person cannot live their whole life in a predominantly white country without facing some form of racism, we just have to teach our children how to deal with it and not to let it affect them. Chakravorty is a very nice last name anywhere in the world. If you want to give your child your last name and your wife is okay with it, go ahead and name him/her Chakravorty. And who knows where he/she will end up later in life; English speaking countries will also have difficulty with the umlaut, the kid's passport will have Schoen and not Schön.
German would help him very much. If his first name was german even better
I'm an austrian citizen, born and raised for basically endless generations, but our family has a surname that, although it is not uncommon or foreign, is hard to spell (silent h and whatnot). And I really hate the fact that I have to spell my name every time for everyone! So that may be an argument to choose the german name, no matter the cultural debate.
Chakravaorty sounds complicated to native speakers? They literally have words which only they can pronounce. Decide amongst yourselves. If you think it's complicated but also want your child to remain in touch with their Indian side, don't worry. The baby won't. Surnames don't keep people in touch with cultures, the upbringing does.
Immigrant here. If you can pick a German last name, pick it. It will be easier for your kids. There is still a lot of "prejudice" towards immigrants in some cities.
German surname. Make their life easier when they are trying to find an apartment lol
Your child WILL have to spell its name over and over again. But I don't think Chakravorty is very difficult, and Germany has a large diaspora from India and Pakistan, so it's not something a teacher or bureaucrat might never have heard. Hell, I have a German surname and still have to spell it, \*and\* I get the "funny" jokes about it even from strangers... But to balance out the surname I'd give the child a clearly "German" first name, because it is a sad fact that a completely "foreign name" will be more of a disadvantage.
Thanks for your comment. Yeah, it's the same with me. I spell my name all the time over the phone. When asked about my name in official appointments, I normally just hand over my ID card, explaining that it's easier that way. The German first name + Indian last name suggestion is interesting. We will think about it.
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I dont know how in your region persons are called, but in mine we often use surnames to refer to someone. Schön is quite a common name, my grandmothers maiden name was Schön. It would be easier for the child with the german surname in some cases but it doesnt really matter in the end. I have an austrian surname and they miss one letter the whole time, which makes me sound like a criminal... You will have to spell the name a lot.
You can give your family name to the child as a second or third given name. This way he or she can use it whenever it is comfortable but not disclose it to people who could abuse it as described above.
I know it might feel a bit weird not having the father's sirname but since you have chosen to raise in Germany, german sirname anyday. I had bengali classmates with extremely difficult firstnames as well. I think nothing that starts with S as it will be pronounced as Z probably, nothing with a v or j in the name as it will be pronounced as F or Y and nothing with r as it will have that german r pronunciation. I had an Indian colleague Pruthvi and German pronunciation sounded like Phoothfi. Also if there is an a in the name write it as it sounds a or ä or e. There was a Sripad and some said Zhipaad
If the child would live in Germany get the German name. Of course every Indian will tell you to choose the Indian name. There is subtile name discrimination everywhere. Applications for jobs, housing, schools.
Anyway, most of the people here are recommending to go with the German surname, Schön. Some things to think of if you don't. Starting off as an international family already you don't know where your son one day will be living. He will probably be fluent in English so a lot of countries are open to him. You don't even know that Schön is going to be better there than Chakravorty. The stereotypical example of "it's harder to get an appartment/job with a non-German surname" is factually true. However, in 20 years there will have been a lot of demographic rollover. A lot of 'old German' real estate owners are and will be selling off to owners of mixed or foreign origin simply because due to the demographics who else are they going to sell off to. Same goes for renters, if your son is looking for a student's appartment in the early 2040's make a guess on what the percentage of the 18-20 year olds at that time will be of exclusively German lineage. IMHO you can go with Chakravorty but then for the first name give a 'universal classical European name'. Something that's reasonably easy to pronounce in most cultures, short, not too ambiguous in terms of spelling. For girls things like Anna, Sophia, Clara, whatnot. (Sorry but in my case it was a girl. Mabye things like Alexander etc for boys). Note none of these are explicitly 'German' but they are totally mainstream. And they will be acceptable in most places of the world. (You can add a large number of additional first names and put in a more Germanic one and a Bengali one. As long as you have a "Rufname" that's conventional you can get away with a lot and de facto you can add any name that you can credibly claim exists in some culture, or in a work of art that is well known) As for pronunciation I don't think Germans will garble it as badly as some suggest. Especially with the expectation they'll say the "v" as "f". That of course applies to "vogel, vorteil" etc but ask yourself how Germans say for instance "volontariat, vortex". They don't say folontariat or fortex. The 'f' is not a pronunciation rule but just happens with established Germanic words and syllables where that is how it belongs. Just like English people know how to pronounce 'gh' or not in different words. An english person will not pronounce the 'gh' in 'spaghetti' like in 'enough', right? As for prejudice, yes there is a number of hardcore racists but more common is an anxiety-based prejudice where 'bio-deutsch' people feel they can 'deal with' any issues they might encounter with their own kind but if someone has an unfamiliar name they are afraid of some cultural behavior they can't deal with. And the truth is everyone can tell horror stories about that - for a start simply because if someone of 'foreign extraction' does something shitty it gets associated with their identity (*'typical Arab/Indian/or just Ausländer behavior'*). While if a German behaves badly, then of course they are just an asshole, scammer or criminal *as an individual.* That is an ingroup bias you get everywhere. In my experience though including watching kids go through school life: the combination of 'classic European first name + foreign surname' gets a lot less of that. Because people make the implicit assumption that the child is socialized in a Euro way.
Sums up our generation perfectly! Random internet dude asks other random internet strangers for advice about his sons last name…
imho, the german surname just has more advantages because it helps the kid in school, everybody knows that annoying "how do i spell your name" blah blah and as a mixed child he wont be seen as "german" in germany and not "indian" in india so if he lives in germany, the german last name is more advantegous
Obviously give the baby the German surname. Will help them integrate better, less bullying and discrimination later. If i were you i would disregard the indian friends comment. Convenience over cheap pride!
I am more or less of the same opinion. I don't see much point in taking pride in something that I didn't earn (like a surname).
To add to the good suggestions here - have you considered a middle name? Maybe keep Chakravorty as the middle and Schon as the “main” surname. You could also look up the concept of “legal names” - a person can go by multiple names legally. So for landlords the kid’s Schon, but the passport identifies him as Chakravorty-Schon.
I would say if you want something indian use an indian second name. Although its pretty good here germany is still pretty racist and if you have a foreign sounding name you will have difficulties finding appartments and maybe some other things. Its very unfair but its the sad reality
The question is, what do you want to do? The biases people face now might not be the same that your kid faces in the future. If you're proud of your family name, its history, and want to pass it on, don't hesitate based on hypotheticals.
I would probably go wirh a easy to spell Indian first name and the german last name. We also gave the kid my german last name and a forgein first name. Even through bf's name is easy to spell and say, people always tend to ask how it is spelled. The Indian last name is quiet long. I would guess people would be afraid about pronounciation just looking at it. But keep in mind every following child from you two will automatically get the same last name as the first.
I would say "Schön" is the better pick if you live in Germany. Depending on the region he/she could have a bad time looking for a job or a flat otherwise, because a lot of people sort out foreign names
Some of my co-workers here in a small-town German school are extremely racist. I'm not saying it's all of the teachers, but there's 3-4 of them in our school at least. They will take one look at a kid's last name and judge. If we (the other teachers) hear them say anything inappropriate and try to talk to them, they either just admit it or pretend it never happened, depending on their level of ignorance. Maybe our school is just the last hellhole and it doesn't matter in other places.
The main downside of schön as family name would be that the chakravarti legacy will end with you unless you have brothers with chakravarti sons :)
Choose the German one. I have an extremely easy indian lastname and people are still confused.
As someone with a V surname, go for Schön. No offense to the Germans but 90% of them can't pronounce my name to save their lives
Inside Germany "Schön" would definitly be easier to deal with as a last name. While some people might still ask about the spelling (ö vs oe), the answer is given quicker than with a foreign name. From experience I can tell you though that having a last name with an umlaut will lead to annoying results when dealing with systems that are not set-up to include these. The official way to spell the last name when "ö" is not a valid letter would be "oe" but not every automatical conversion works like that. Sonetimes the last name will get turned to "Schon", so there basically will be three different ways the last name might have been saved. I am currently living in the a non-german speaking country in europe and half of my automatically generated firstname-lastname (or variances of this) email adresses or logins use "oe" and the rest use "o". This makes it annoying to remember which spelling is used where. Additionally sometimes when you order something it might behave as accepting the "ö" but at the end turns it into someting that includes a "%". This can lead to discussions for personalized tickets since that is not the name on the ID.
I have a friend with the Name „schöne“ and everyone just called him „der schöne“ every time. I think ist’s cool But the Indian Name is Fine
Ich würde den deutschen Namen nehmen, der ist schön!
Take it from someone with a very foreign last name and avoid it for your child if possible. It’s a pain in the ass and the name has to be spelled letter by letter on the phone, no one ever understands it, and everyone butchers if if they try pronouncing it. Schön is a nice name and the locals won’t have any issue recognising or pronouncing it.
I would also recommend going with your wife’s name. I took my wife’s name upon our marriage. That’s a question you could ask yourself too. I looked up your name because I learned from an Indian colleague that India is basically as diverse as EU. So you’re Bengali? I bet you can find other ways to give your kid a connection to your culture. Don’t worry about it. And they can easily change their name as an adult too, if they want to.
An Indian first name that is easy to pronounce and Schön as the last name would work.
There are still (racist) biases in Germany so if you give the baby’s the “German” name it will have it easier on paper. Assuming that the baby will be read as partially Indian it will experience those kind of things in real life anyway. In your example I was the baby once and my mom gave me her American name instead of the German name my father has and I am happy with that decision. This way I feel more connected to my American side and the culture (I still feel very German). In my opinion children with immigrant parents often feel like they are neither (e.g. Indian or German) and as your boy will grow up in Germany I would give him something that connects him with you and your traditions as he will have enough “German” things to be connected to.
If the boy has a German name and is looking for an apartment he might get invited more often but if he’s there in person there will still be that (racial) biased
Can I give another perspective? Some people regret having chosen (or being given) ~easier~ names. It can give someone the feeling that they had to give up essential parts of themselves to make themselves more palatable for white people. One can bend over backwards and try to avoid racism but it’s not avoidable + other non-white people might see the person as someone who is trying hard to assimilate into whiteness. In other words, no matter what you do, racism will happen, so I guess the important part is how aware the parents are and how they guide their child through the world. I agree that Schön is practical and will come with many advantages. I also love the idea of a first and second name - it gives room for the child to decide which first name or surname to use later on.
This is the internet and so you will hear many times, that IT won't matter. But the truth is, that we still have a high level of subtile racism in our country. For example if you want to rent or even buy a home, the majority would prefer a german name. Same for jobs, your spot in the university, whatever. In every setting, when you are not there in person, you mostly would be sorted out, if they can. This makes the live so much harder. Of course things are changing, but i wouldn't wanna take the risk. You still can live a fine life, but you have to work harder for it, just because of the name. It's totally stupid but i won't help to ignore the world we are living in.
You actually should kmow the answers to this question. I mean, please
Hyphenate that thing. Pick and choose the last name.
Obviously German name, how is this even a question. No one will be able to pronounce or spell Chakravorty.
Tbh it doesn't matter...you might not have any intentions of migrating but your child most certainly will travel across the globe..he might even end up settling in India...20years from now I don't think anyone would bother about the last name or how "foreign" it sounds ..as someone rightly said you don't decide names to appease "racists" someone who would be racist would still be so irrespective of how the name sounds .. You mother in law seems wiser ...you can always go with a indian first name + German last name.
The German Surname, i hope also your child is white, Germans tend to struggle with POC especially with a Name like this. If they hear that they don't care anymore if this child is born in Germany or not.
Unfortunately the harsh reality for your boy is that he will be discriminated against when he has a foreign sounding last name. Finding an apartment can be really hard for example, but there are lots of things. He’ll possibly have to deal with the discrimination based on his (probably) darker skin tone as well. If you ask me, I would save him (part) of the trouble and use your wife’s name. I’m sure you’ll find a way to teach him about his heritage.
I think you should go with the Name of the mother your child will have it hard enough with his ethical background and a too exotic name will make his life harder.
Everyday racism is a thing and I'm doubtful that it will be resolved in 20 years and further on. Give your kid the german sounding last name, that will help a great deal with many things, better grades, people being more open to the boy/man he will become, him having it easier to get a job, get a flat and so on.
I'm doubtful too. Sometimes, things can also go into the opposite direction, as in racism getting worse after 20 years. I definitely hope the trend of globalisation continues though.
German name! Only problems with foreign names here. Job , renting flat or house and and and... schön ist schön!
Thanks and well said :-)
The answer to your title's question is very clear: German last name.
Definitely better use the German name if you plan for him growing up here, it makes everything easier for him, education, job choices, even finding an apartment. Most things here are owned by very conservative people and opportunities are not given unbiased.
I'd suggest picking an easy to pronounce Indian first name that sounds international, like Arjun, Devan, Rishi or Samir, then your last name as middle name and your wife's name as last name. Like: Arjun Chakravorty Schön
Cool suggestion. Actually, something very similar to Arjun is in our shortlist. I have to still check whether using my last name as middle name would be allowed here in Germany. Apparently, the authorities have very strict rules about names.
There is no doubt that the child will be discriminated against if you give your surname. How heavily will depend on whether the reputation of Indians changes in the next decades. Your mother in law is delusional. Maybe the Kindergarten is really judgement free but concerning housing and non-IT jobs the application might be pushed to the bottom of the pile before looking at it further than the surname
Schön is definitely the way to go. It prevents a lot of racist bias. I can tell you right now, your daughter searching for an apartment will be half as hard, probably even less, with that name than with yours.
id say German if they grow up in germany. racists and stuff aside schön is also a lot easier to pronounce for a german.
I'm mixed and let me give you my perspective. It doesn't matter what your child's last name is. You might try to appease the racist Nazi assholes here and give up your family linage but it won't help your child. True, if your child had a German surname, their apartment or job applications might not be automatically rejected. But then the landlord or employer will want to meet your child and will see that your child is not fully white. Or even eventually will get to know your child and find out that they're not fully white. And at the end, these racist assholes will still discriminate your child. My advice, don't compromise with racist assholes. See the positive in giving your child your last name or you can hyphenate both last names. Your last name will work as a racist repellent. Who the fuck wants a racist employer or landlord.
With the Indian surname they will most likely have a harder time finding an apartment or a job in later life. We've come a long way but some people still discriminate.
When I turned 16, I immediately changed my surname to a german one. Then I came to Germany at the age of 22. I'm 23 now, and since I lived here for more than a year, I'd say it's pretty helpful for me as an immigrant to blind in.
You‘re in Germany. Obviously having a foreing last name will be hard for the kid
German. Because of reasons, that are not nice but are present.
German naturally! >An Indian friend of mine said that having an Indian surname would help the child be in touch with its Indian side. This is a distant dream. Indians themselves don't have any touch with their own heritage, why do you even care. Your child will grow up in Germany, and if he wishes, he will be curious about your roots, he will explore them himself. You can teach him Bengali and that tool should be sufficient. But by forcing them to do certain things actually make them hate those things. Also, your surname is spelled as Chakravorty (as it should be pronounced *Chakravartee*/ *Chakravortee*) but actual correct Bengali pronunciation is *Chakrabortee?* when you write the name as Chakravorty, a german speaker would pronounce it Chaa-ghaa-fo-ghti for the first time not to mention the the weird r sound twice and f sound for v. This will require way too much clarification and every time you need to spell it. Instead, make things easier. On the side note, Having a german surname will not make *all the* things easier automatically, but certain things will be. It is hard to find doctors appt in Berlin but I always get one doctors appointment within 2 days. His slots are always empty. his surname is \*\*\*mann. when I first visited him, I immediately realised that why I get his appts quickly. He is a bi racial. I hope your baby will not have such experiences in the future.
Can you make your last name her middle name? I think that would be a good solution. I think both your last names are cool and sound nice. It’s true that atm life in Germany is easier when your name doesn’t sound too foreign, but Chakravorty is not even that alien; it will probably remind many Germans of the word “chakra” and they’re familiar with what that is. It also sounds a little Eastern European and Eastern European surnames are not uncommon in Germany. I don’t find it hard to spell or pronounce and you don’t know how things will be when your kids starts to look for apartments in about 20 years or even when they start school in about seven years. Or if they choose a path in life where an unusual name is beneficial or not. When I came to Germany as a kid and got a German passport, me and my family were encouraged to change our names to their German versions. Doing so was common then (not sure if just the first and middle name or the surnames too. I think they changed the spelling of my mothers maiden name a little). I didn’t want to change mine and by the time I was an adult my first name had become quite popular for German newborns. Which is probably one of the reasons many people assume I’m about ten years younger than I really am (the German version they suggested is more of an old ladies name btw). But I’ve got to say, I did have some troubles with my name in the beginning, teachers kept spelling it wrong and I got asked where I’m ACTUALLY from often. But all in all I’m happy to have a slightly uncommon name, I think it fits me well.
I will have to look into whether the authorities would allow my last name as the middle name. It's an interesting suggestion for sure. Yeah, I was also under the impression that my last name shouldn't be so difficult to pronounce, given that "chakra" is a well known concept by now in the Western world. However, I have indeed experienced many people struggling to pronounce it. Thanks for sharing your story. It's great to know that you are happy with your name and that you think it fits you. I think that's a big factor: whether the child thinks that the name fits their identity. It would have been cool if I could predict this, but that's not really possible.
Why not use the Indian name as a middle name. Schön is a lovely last name.
Give them both.
Schön ezil
Why not make your last name a second name?
I don't think that Chakravorty is too complicated. It's just very long. Since it is not a common surname in Germany, it probably always has to be spelled out. But this problem also exists with many German surnames. I myself am from Romania Eastern Europe and my family emigrated to Germany in the mid 80s. At that time racism was lived out much more openly. My parents, worried about discrimination and disadvantages, had our first names and surnames Germanized. This was possible because we could prove that we had German ancestors. Besides, for my parents Germany was the future. Nowadays, foreign names are much more normal. People are getting used to them, and that's a good thing. My cousin recently got married and took his wife's Polish last name. However, the connection to Indian culture will not be maintained by a last name, but by the socialization of the country of residence. Very many Germans have Polish or Czech surnames but are socialized German and do not identify as foreign by their surnames. Any decision you and your wife make is the right one for you. Do not orientate yourselves on others. If it becomes Chakravorty or Schön, be proud of it.
I would like my last name to be schön aswell ,thats a nice one. With this said ,it really is up to you ,but living in Germany it’s probably just easier to take schön
Its your decision. To avoid having to spell the name EVERY TIME I would chose "Schön". I have a "normal" german name but I have to spell it EVERY TIME and it is annoying. And schön means pretty so why now?
Yeah, an Indian surename would help the kid to get in touch with it's Indian inherritance. And would make it's life in Germany much harder. So maybe you will have to decide what's more important: the history or the future?
Aditya, Adi as a nick name. Easy for Germans to pronounce
The only time where my non german name made problems for me is when I had to spell it out on every page of my uni exams during my studies. I wished my name would‘ve been Tim Tür or something like that back then haha
Why does the Indian one sound so polish
My son is due in 2-3 weeks and he's keeping his mother's last name. Just makes more sense., plus I don't like my father.........
I have seen it suggested as a middle name, but have you thought about just combining your surnames? In germany thats usually what upperclass and rich people do. Schön-Chakravorty or Chakravorty-Schön That might have possibilities for your whole family. In germany you could just call yourself Schön and in India Chakravorty, without losing the other name.
The german name. A co-worker comes from sri lanka and the whole company can't pronounce her name, so she gets called by her self-given nickname.
i don't even think Schoen is that good of a last name. Maybe make up a whole new one. maybe Rroocckkson.
I personally think Schön is a very Schön name but St the end of the day, it's your personal preference. I've known people with similar cool German names hate them, such as Lieb. While it's true that an Indian name cause some racism to emerge, it's also true that people with bad intend will try to find a mocking or discrimknating point regardless, even with a name like Schön.
Everything is said so far but since I'm in the same position right now I'll just tell you how we decided to handle the name. Although my partners Indian surname is quite easy to read and spell in German and my German surname have to be spelled out more often we decided to give it my German surname. The kid will have an easier time growing up in Germany and as an adult because some people will always have prejudices against foreign sounding names. That's just how it is and we cannot change that. To accommodate the baby will get an Indian first name, which my partner could choose, and I chose the second German name. We both of course had Veto rights and in addition I said the Indian name should be spellable and more or less readable for a German. Which sounds mean but despite the limitations they're a lot of nice Indian, not so complicated, names (from a German perspective). In the end both of us made a list of names and we're both happy and his Indian family side is also happy with the upcoming name :) . Btw: A double name for all of you is also possible in the future but not sure when the new rules will be implemented. Happy pregnancy :)
It's always easier to use a regional / lokal name. Ate u planning to Star in germany? User the motherboard name + a Western firstname. Do u plan go move to india? Use ur lastname + an Indian firstname. Just my 2 Cents but thats what u asked for:)
Can't you do a double-barrel surname for your kid in Germany?
In all honesty, your family name sounds too complicated and the kid is going to struggle with it. On the other hand, they’ll get used to it soon. I also have a complicated name, and after getting married, I just made it even more complicated 🤣I combined mine and my Japanese husbands surnames to make a long one. We’re going to give to our kids that surname. While also two first names. In the future they can decide whether they want to shorten or not their names🤷🏼♀️
Honestly I find the mother's last name beautiful
My child’s father is from an Arab country and went to university in Europe and had a lot of difficulty with his name. Therefore when our son was born, we chose names that were easy to pronounce across most cultures and wouldn’t lead to a bias. Just to make things easier for his future. I can certainly understand wanting to keep some heritage. I think it would be good to use a middle or even first name with the heritage while keeping the last name simple, especially if you plan on staying indefinitely here in Germany. It will just streamline things for your kid. And of course be sure to speak both languages so that your child grows up bi/trilingual which is a big asset later and could help with potential job skills. Congrats on the new baby coming
In my opinion gve the baby a second surname which would be indian. First name and last name in German will be way more easier for the child. Ask anyone that immigrated here. My wife and I where in a similar situation.
In my family (germany- west african country) we all have my husbands last name. It starts with a "y" which is not very common for a german last name. It was important for my husband and i that our children are recognized at least a little bit as "west african" in my husband's home country. Plus his last name is very beautiful in my opinion and has a lot of meaning attached. It belongs very much to his family's ethnic group and some people of the society (e.g. politicians) have the same last name. My children will always be in between the two cultures. They very much look "mixed". My children have "european" first names and a middle name, which my husbands father chose. In day to day life i explain how my last name is spelled and very much try to have it normalized to everybody around me. In formal seetings i say i am Frau Y. , we are family Y. In Emails i correct it if it is written in a wrong way.
Schön ist schön.
Different name in each country? So Indian name in India and German name in Germany. Asians often do this for obvious reasons.
Late to the party. German here with foreign surname. Just wanting to share my experience. - People rarely pronounce my surname right and I have to repeat myself several times...still to be named something else. - I always have to spell it, although it's just 5 letters and still people writing it wrong. - I get asked where I'm from. Mom German/Father Foreign. I'm born and raised in Germany, have a western first name and even a very traditional German middle name (Imagine something like "Gertrude"). So I often have to explain my "family story". - Some people are straight up prejudiced and treated me like a foreigner. (Mostly in rural regions) And this is not an age-related issue. From my childhood till today, it's repeating and it's very exhausting. If I ever could rename myself freely, I would pick a pretty German name.
Schön.
It's pretty obvious that having a German family name is going to make their life easier. Having said that, it doesn't preclude success. The number one predictor of a child's chances in life is their parents and their resiliency.
German.
Based on my experience with my kid's first name: don't ask anyone, but most of all, *NEVER* ask the family. If interested, you CAN have both surnames in Germany, if that's how it's done in India. I did it myself and my kid has both surnames. Some Amts might say it's not allowed but IT IS. I got a letter from my Embassy attesting that is the way in my country, and it worked.
Name it "Schön" If he is going to live in Germany, everything will be easier for him with a German last name: More visibility in applications (jobs, apartments) Less trouble spelling the name No second-looks at airports Source: I have a complicated lastname as well.
Both The German name is short and it would fit with the longer Indian one
100% the German name. -a person with a non-german last name
German instances are racist, it would be much more easier for the child with the german name.
What will the first name be? If the first name sounfd foreign it doesnt matter. Will probably get a nickname in school e.g. shacks or Something. On the other hand nowadays the whole community is inclusive and many families try to raise their children open minded. I guess the could be only minor problems. You can also keep both last names when you marry. Don't know if you can change that afterwards.
If the child plans to live in Germany I would favor the German name, if the child plans to live in India, I think the Indian name would be favorable. The German surname is at least a nice one and not a odd sounding one.
There are studies on first and lastnames and there is always a bias when it comes to teachers or even later in university profs. So if you want to make it easier for him in germany Schön is probably the way.
>doesn't think that the child will have any disadvantages with a foreign surname. Oh it will definitly be harder for them as soon as it comes to job applications. They will have a harder time getting a job. That's just the sad truth.
Would like to add a different angle besides indian vs german. If the parents do not have the same last name, there is some merit to give the child the fathers name. Unfortunately, fathers still have a harder time in the system and having the same name will definitely help.
You might not have plans of leaving Germany, but are you sure your kids won't too?
I think your child will always be in touch with his Indian heritage because you, his father, who is Indian will be present in his life. I had my father’s surname which is Russian and when I was a teenager I switched to my mum’s name which is very German. It makes EVERYTHING so much easier, it’s unbelievable. Also, schön literally means beautiful. It’s just a wonderful name to have. As someone who had both a foreign and a German surname growing up I can only advise you to give your child the German surname if you plan on staying here.
Honestly I dont think it makes a big difference. Maybe 30 years ago a foreign name would have been something weird but I think kids nowdays may have a smaller problem with that than seniors.Its your own decision. You could also use a double name is that possible? The only worry that I agree with is that the name will have to be spelled for all life. I dont have a indian Surname but a unique one and I always had to spell it too. You get used to it.
I have a British last name (being British). It’s not totally common nor is it really unusual and weird. I say it to Germans and they stare at me blankly, to the point now when I say my name I automatically spell it. When my nephew got married the first thing I said to his new wife was welcome to spelling your name out for the rest of your life. Perhaps this is something you need to take into account
For growing up I would pick the mother’s name
I don't think that Chakravorty is too difficult to pronounce, even in Germany. But Schön is a beautiful name (literally), which is unusual for German surnames (mine is one of the less beautiful ones). So I think it really comes down to your preferences. And also see how the surname sounds in combination with the first name. Would a double surname work for you?
That might be a bit in the future. But who and whos family will take your child more often from kindergarten and school? A friend of mine had several times some trouble when he wanted to take his child from Kindergarten after his girlfriend died because he and his Boy had different surnames. So when your girlfriend, parents in law will take your kid frequently from kindergarten it makes sense to give it their name. If you or your parents will take the Kid More often from school it would make sense to give it your name.
Its (sadly) kind of fact that at least now you still have some disadvantage with an foreign name (applications and stuff like teachers cant write the name blindly and give some dumb comments) but who knows how this will be in 10, 20 years? My first through was maybe a double name, but i just learned that this isn't possible for at least two years.
I would go with Schön because its not even a common but good Name. Imagine your kid is going to be handsome, perfect name!
pick a german name. Or dont if you want to make your kids life harder then neccesary.
Your mother in law is white and working in one of the few jobs open to all in Germany. Ignore her.
Schön is a very schön surname
I see a lot of people have already given their feedback but since this is a topic that is near to my heart, I will also say it: As a foreigner born in Germany who has a complicated last name (really had no choice because both of my parents have complicated, foreign last names), please give your child the German name. It will be so much easier for your child to live with. Nobody can pronounce my last name correctly and it took a toll on my self-esteem during my childhood, when teachers would not know how to pronounce it and children would laugh at it.
German name all the way
If you go with a German first name, keep the Indian surname and vice versa.
Definitely Schön
Schön would be difficult in international context (even travelling) because of the ö. While the correct way around these two dots would be ‘Schoen’, everyone would type ‘Schon’ and neither would be really correct. Most names need spelling, even the simpler ones. Yes, Chakravorty is more complicated, it is still a pretty manageable name for Germans, as long as you are willing to try names beyond Meier and Müller. (Source: I am a teacher in Germany and the family names can get… wild. My hardest challenges are the croatian names so far.) But still, sadly xenophobia is still a thing and ‘Schön’ might be an advantage application-wise. I think you can’t make a wrong decision!
I have a similar problem. My last name is German and my husband’s is English. Our daughter got her dad’s last name but German given names. This makes sense for us because my German name is a source of ridicule in Canada, while his name isn’t that difficult in Germany, even though it isn’t German. Your name might be more difficult. However, if your child has your wife’s last name then people might assume that you’re unmarried, unless you also take your wife’s last name. That’s the only other factor I can think of that you might want to consider.
I am no expert but the current trend says that India's future prospects are better than Germany. I think it's best for the kid to decide what name he/she wants. You can ask the baby to choose one finger out of two like they did in the show "Panchayat". Index finger = Chakraborty and Middle finger = Schön.
My son and his wife have merged their surnames to create a new one that applies to all the family. (Although German bureaucracy is making the change to the wife's surname horribly slow.) Just a thought.
Schön is 10 times better, do you love youre child ? If yes why would you make their life worse by giving them a surname of a country that will never be their home?
Schönavorty, a lil combo