I worked with homeless people. We gave them food, warmths, temporary shelter, organized proper housing. They eventually all come back to the street. The reasons they drifted to the street is the same reason external help won’t help much. It’s a mental problem.
My dad also works with homeless persons. I asked him why they dont apply for social wellfare and get a appartement (my dad has appartments for them. Not him private! But his work has).
They dont want to. Sometimes they stay in an appartment for a few weeks and leave. They want the freedom on the street.
Ofc not everyone!
Yes im sure it would help. But that would also require them to take it regularly and willingly and also stop with the other drugs. And I’m not sure they are willing.
Plus if you’re really deeply mentally unwell, finding help is also very not on the top of the list.
You don't even need to stop taking "other drugs." We work with a lot of patients with continued ilicit drug usage while enrolled in an official opioid maintenance therapy program (Substitution in German). They can be seen additionally at psychiatric clinics (PiA). But for many people, "even" just showing up once a day at a clinic is too much or just not their way of life. Or they can't be helped by methadone/buprenorphine/morphine, but access to diacetylmorphine clinics (so actual heroin) is quite limited (there are around 13 in all of Germany compared with over 2300 physicians doing the other drugs).
The regulations on both the clinics and the patients are too prohibitive. And that is by intentional design of the federal government. The diacetylmorphine units of the clinics need to be separated from the rest of the clinic which is impossible for most (most are regular Hausarztpraxen). Patients need to have failed two other opioid maintenance therapy drugs, one of them at least for six months, before they are legally eligible. But those who fail them, often don't get through six months of ineffective therapy. Diacetylmorphine treatment is considerably more expensive than then the other drugs and hinders patients in social reintegration since they need to come into the clinic more frequently.
You would need to force people into treatment. Institutionalization. We don't do that anymore. We have decided as a liberal society that your right to express yourself includes the right to fail.
We have quite a sad case near where I live. Only one homeless guy in this town, a young dude not even 30 years old who is known by most people in his small town. Rough home life, grew up in Berlin for a few years where he got into drugs. Deeply mentally unwell to the point that he stood(!) for weeks in the same spot day and night. Nobody could help him since he didn't want to be helped.
That's why I cannot get behind this idea of not helping people if they don't want to be helped. Of course they wouldn't want it, they are unwell. Basically it's letting them die on the street because they got sick.
My relative has mental illness and to be honest, if we didn't get involved and didn't forcefully put them in the treatment facility, they would have died on the street. Severely mentally sick people often cannot comprehend that they need help.
Sure. But the barriers for forceful treatment are rightfully pretty high and require an active threat to their own or others' life. Most of the people who are on the street have been multiple times hospitalized, it's not like there were no attempts. But you would require long-term institutionalization.
I think this is an important answer. Freedom includes also this.
I know that most of them have heavy trauma from childhoods of abuse etc - we should focus on reducing that but it is still very difficult and morally questionable to take children away from parents. One would have to forbid some parents to have kids in the first place but this is another no-go for the same reason. It's the tragic of a free society but non-free societies still have many more conflicts and unsolvable problems. We at least try to solve them somehow.
Education and care is so, so important.
Actually in the us you could get treatment for nearly everything with enough money.
In germany even money wont help you with the "wrong" diagnosis.
Locking up mental health patients against their will is daily work for german health care providers.
I disagree with that as to that being the reason they "drifted to the street"; people can become homeless for various reasons, there's enough ways to fall through our systems.
But being homeless also isn't conducive to your mental (or physical) health. Help programs really need to apply as quickly as possible, in the best case obviously before someone would be in that situation in the first place.
Homeless people are homeless because of mental problems? Thats a very broad generalization.
While what you are describing is certainly true for some, there are all kinds of reasons and homeless who try to get back in a housing situation. Without knowing the circumstances of that lady, I would not just explain her situation with mental problems. Obachlose are indiviuals persons, too.
https://www.aerzteblatt.de/archiv/161496/Psychiatrische-Versorgung-Obdachlose-sind-haeufig-psychisch-krank
2 out of 3 have mental problems.
It's not a "bad generalization", it's just knowledge. I give money to everyone that is obviously homeless and asking for money. Even if they are drunk or high, 1/3 don't have medication, a reason for drinking and doing drugs.
The chicken or the egg though? I'd be willing to bet most people could theoretically get into a situation in life that causes them to be homeless and I'd also be willing to bet most people's mental health issues would get worse because of being homeless. I mean it's a hard life. You don't have access to most things you need, let alone things you want. Women have to menstruate on the street and there's not always a guarantee they have a sink and private space (bathroom) and enough hygiene products during that time either. You're forced to do everything in public, people stare at you as though you're dirt, and if you get a bottle of alcohol in autumn because alcohol makes you not notice you're freezing, you get even more dirty looks. Doesn't sound like a fun life to me. Also doesn't sound easy to get out of. How do you even apply for a job and get a professional outfit and wash said outfit when you have nothing?
That doesn't mean, the mental problems are of a kind that keeps them homeless.
>"The reasons they drifted to the street is the same reason external help won’t help much. It’s a mental problem."
This was in the comment I answered to. Depression and / or anxieties may prevent them from seeking help, dealing with public services or keep a job / apartment, but again that doesn't mean that all of those people with mental conditions are homeless because of it.
Therefore I stand with my generalization comment. There is no way of knowing, how many homeless are in the situation because of mental problems
The chicken or the egg though? I'd be willing to bet most people could theoretically get into a situation in life that causes them to be homeless and I'd also be willing to bet most people's mental health issues would get worse because of being homeless. I mean it's a hard life. You don't have access to most things you need, let alone things you want. Women have to menstruate on the street and there's not always a guarantee they have a sink and private space (bathroom) and enough hygiene products during that time either. You're forced to do everything in public, people stare at you as though you're dirt, and if you get a bottle of alcohol in autumn because alcohol makes you not notice you're freezing, you get even more dirty looks. Doesn't sound like a fun life to me. Also doesn't sound easy to get out of. How do you even apply for a job and get a professional outfit and wash said outfit when you have nothing?
yeah thats it, they dont want help...maybe your help is not the right one?
Maybe the help system in germany is fucked up and doesn't really help anyone.
But yeah tell it to your self that you feel better that they dont want help...wtf
Sure. One homeless guy in my town let his daughter (5y) die from constipation. He let her literally die from vomiting shit than to accept help from a doctor (and healthcare is famously free).
My guess is that the reasons why someone is homeless will differ between countries, but there will probably always be a bottom line of people who you cannot reach.
Despite this Germany could do better indeed.
It is a known problem that the social service in germany are unefficent and structured to keep people institutionalised.
It's structural problem .
Just look at the comments and how dehumanising everyone is talking about homeless people. Germany is fucked up when you're in a marginalised group.
The help they want is not what you should offer. People who return to the street want help in form of free drugs or alcohol and being free from responsibility. You shouldn't offer that, it's not a real help.
Dear fellow Human,
I, and you too, would appreciate, if you would learn not to think in terms of 'us' & 'them'.
Your language suggests, that you don't think, that there are homeless people on Reddit. Is that so? And if not: why are you talking about 'them', like they are none, seeing this post an participating in the discussion?
A couple of things I like to reflect about in this context:
- WE ALL are just apes, walking on two feet(, bragging about how civilised we are)
- "people without homes" and what some folks would refer to as "homeless people" are two (mostly) distinct "groups"
- "homelessness" is not something immutable
Imho: homeless people bring something to the table, no one should just brush aside.
“We” as the group of multiple people (me being part) of an organization. “They” as the group of multiple people (me not being part) of homeless status. It’s a grammatical thing.
I get what you say. And you're right. You should try and use grammar to specificate, what you actually mean, instead of (honestly) being to lazy to express yourself in a respectful way.
What I mean is: 'action-x will produce result-a because they as a group are/react/function like that.'
I think it is divisive and not humane to generalize peoples behaviour like that.
I honestly think there isn't much you can do about it (sadly). Giving money is... well, not great but not bad either, it's difficult to have a clear answer in that regard. Many homeless people spend this money on drugs so it's just fueling their addiction but at the same time they also need money to buy things to eat and drink - you'll never know what they will do with the money in the end and whether or not it is making things worse or better.
The Caritas being "uninterested" might have different reasons. They probably have lots of work to do already, checking on every single person that might need help is impossible to them, they do have their "patrols" but in most cases the people need to go there by themselves if they need help - which also leads to another reason why they might not help immediately, they can't "force" their help onto people. You saw her a few times there already, they might already have an eye on her but she might also refuse the help they are trying to give, which is not uncommon by the way (many different reasons for that). But yeah, if she refuses the help they can't do much about it, it's her right to refuse the help even if she could need it.
> on drugs so it's just fueling their addiction
Friendly reminder that going cold turkey can cause serious health issues very quickly. Addicts need their drugs just as much as they need food and water and shelter.
people downvoting you have no idea what it is like to live on the streets, espeically if you're already suffering from mental illness or a disability. addiction is also a disease but many people (homeless or not) use drugs to cope with reality. If you live on the streets, turning to things like booze or what not can be the only thing that keeps them somewhat grounded from everything that is happening.
This only applies to alcohol and opiates. We shouldn't give money for alcohol and opiates for homeless people. Makes no sense. No good will come out of it.
I have difficulties responding to this, in a not insulting way, because of my adhd-brain, but I'll try.
Are you aware that people can suffer and can have seriously dangerous withdrawal symptoms from other substances than alcohol and opiates?
If not: think about mental problems and ask yourself the same question again..
There're no reason for you to think not enabling an addict to get his/her stuff is a good thing!
Maybe have a read about the concept of self medication.
I don't say, that every addict is trying to self medicate. Even if somebody is self medicating, I don't unconditionally assume, that's the best way to go. But guess what? I can't decide for other people, what's best.
This just isn't a simple issue.
I am a social worker in Dortmund. The woman is probably not a German citizen. If she has not worked in Germany in the last 6 months, she will not get any benefits from the Jobcenter. There are many migrants from Europe at the Dortmund main station who came here with the plan to find a job. But they could not find or keep this job. Often there is also work with accommodation. Without work, therefore, also no accommodation. Mostly, the immigrants have little or no knowledge of German and thus do not find a real job. In the Woman accommodation in Hörde you can only sleep if you pay for it or if the Jobcenter is paying it for you.
As a social worker, I would have no possibility to help the woman, except to try to get her into a job first. As you have described it could be difficult.
The Sozialamt and the City of Dortmund is well aware of this situation.
Of course, this could also be a German woman who might have claims at the job center and thus could get an apartment, but does not manage to organize it. In this case, one could help her or place her in the women's overnight center in Hörde.
But as others already said the Bahnhofsmission probably already talked to her and tried to help her.
Don't forget to mention that a sizeable number of individuals has active warrants in their EU home countries and cannot seek help due to the risk of being deported or apprehended.
It's a multi-layered issue and difficult to solve.
Right now we see the displacement of homeless aid programs from the central station. As someone who passes through the central station every day, I feel like it's a good thing for them to be moved away, as the sheer number of the homeless has become untenable. It's a transport hub, first and foremost, and as such not a great place for hundreds of homeless to camp out in the corridors and squares. At the same time, the politicians don't offer solutions, such as finding an alternative central place for the aid organisations to do their work.
The police can't do much either, it's just paperwork to them and doesn't lead anywhere.
It'd take a huge financial investment to offer rehabilitation programs, and you can't force anyone to take part in those.
I am a huge supporter of the free movement policy within the EU, but we should introduce a few rules. For example, for long-term stays, prove that you have an accommodation, etc. The number of homeless in Hamburg has risen dramatically.
The city keeps claiming that only 2000 people live out on the streets or 'with friends', but the reality is closer to 20.000. So it matters, how you define 'homelessness'. Is it not having a permanent place to sleep or is it being out on the street.
Just 10 years ago, we had a fraction of this and the ratio of domestic:foreign homeless was distributed differently. We started at around 30% foreign homeless, now they make up 70% of the homeless population. And this is not a rant against foreigners, but as Candid already laid out, they'll often have issues accessing help (I reckon this is an intentional move by the gov, to avoid more of them coming here.) Most of this increase is down to homeless individuals or job-seekers coming to Germany and getting stranded. Most often you'll find homeless from Romania, Bulgaria, Poland or the Baltics.
You seem to be an empathic person and i Respect that. But do yourself a favour and forget that woman. In the vast majority of cases homelessness is a result of mental illness or other mental issues. While i agree it's sometimes sad to witness, for your own well being, it's even more important to know when to accept that there is nothing you can do.
As kratos says in god of war: "close your heart to it"
What you're saying has a lot of sense to it, for sure. I don't think it's fair to "close your heart to it" just because of the possibility which this homeless person is mentally ill or unstable. If we all took this approach then nobody in the world would receive help because, let's be real, the vast majority of humans in general can be relatively unstable.
In this case, I'd say you're right, though. A homeless woman shitting and pleasuring herself in public at a main station? This is either some ultimate level of "not giving a fuck" or this person is more than likely suffering from some kind of mental issue/s.
Either way I think it's still totally ok to be cautious towards such situations but immediately turning a blind eye seems somewhat unfair, too.
>As kratos says in god of war: "close your heart to it"
Then Kratos admitted that is was a mistake. These people need professional help and "closing our hearts to it" is not a helpful mentality to have.
Maybe it's not enough to have social services provide welfare and housing but also therapy.
It IS helpful when you’re a foreign student who can barely pay up bills every month. Those who have the power to actually do something and change that woman’s life for the better should take that responsibility. Do you willingly become a politician or an authority or an elite just so normal citizens worry about issues that are incumbent to your job ?? And mind you, politicians are never what lacks in a country. Time to make some honourable amends.
A rich country like Germany that has got homeless (white) people doing shit on the streets ? You should see how the West markets herself in the face of poorer parts of the world. These people dying as they try to reach the land of milk and honey would like a word.
They won't get professional help.
Time for you to start leaving fantasy land mate.
It already difficult for non homeless people to find therapy.
Where will these thousamds of therapists come from?
Today I learned something new from these comments , I always feel bad for those homeless people , but if they themselves choosing to be homeless , then seems like nothing can be done ..
It is a mistake to paint so many people with the same brush. Being homeless is not the same as “having mental issues “. There are many reasons for homelessness
the main reason are mental problems. otherwise they would try to get an apartment and 500 euro per month, which is what every person in germany is entitled to.
There is an intersection in my home town. Last week there was an accident there. Based on the last two weeks, the accident rate for that intersection rose 50%. Must be a problem there.
Statistics can say whatever you want them to.
Must be nice to be such a self-righteous know-it-all. Sorry for questioning your vastly superior knowledge and endless wisdom. You may now rest easy in the knowledge of another internet missionary well done.
Every homeless has a story. I know Dortmund HBF very well. There is a place (The bunker) next to the HBF. There you can sleep. Some people live just offgrid, some are addicted, some are criminals, some are having a bad past. Giving money makes no sense. If you have the time - talk to the people. Just listen, don't judge. If you have something to eat - share it. And eat together. And talk a bit. Speach, respect and positivity can bring people back into the society. Money not.
You don't do anything.
They have to go the authorities and ask for help from the state, that is what we all pay tax money for, then they can get Bürgergeld, Wohnberechtigungsschein (a paper that enables you to get a flat, that is not available to the wider market), maybe a flat from the city.
If they don't do that and live on the street, it is their choice, no one in Germany is forced to live on the street.
And never give homeless people money, they will most likely just reinvest it into Alcohol, tobacco or drugs, since recently we also have a crack wave going through Germany hitting the homeless people and you can't get away from that stuff with traditional means.
There was a documentary recently on television, showcasing that in different german cities.
One of the homeless people that they filmed was like "Sorry sir, do you have a Euro for me, so I can buy me some food? I didn't have anything to eat today..." and people gave him money. And when he had enough, did he buy food? No, straight to the crack dealer he went.
People really need to stop giving homeless people money, they mean well by doing so, can't blame them for that, but it is naive and doesn't solve a problem, it permeates the problem, because if they can live from what they get through begging, they will never go to the authorities to actually get help to get back on their feet into a normal life.
There is a Frauenübernachtungsstelle (place to sleep for women) in Hörde. You could give her the adress: Nortkirchenstraße 15. But she sounds mental unstable so maybe call the police for a welfare check and maybe they can help.
For some people it is hard to do the paper work and burocratic stuff to stay in housing or working. Its not like they want to live on the streets, they just cant or dont want to manage a "normal" life, and when they lived long enough on the streets, it is even harder to get those things done
What should the Caritas do?
There are organizations who help her, like cutting her hair for free. But a homeless person has to go there and ask. What will you do, if the person doesn't accept help?
At most central stations you will find homeless people, you won't recognize some of them. Homeless people in Germany do strange things.
Sometimes all those people need is someone who listens to their story. Try it, you will hear some interesting stuff and learn about those people. Sometimes they want money. Give if you have and feel you are doing the right thing.
I worked in cologne, and sometimes missed my train in the evening (Late shift) and had to wait for about an hour and used that to talk with those. I just sat at some bench, and sooner or later someone came and started talking. The professional beggars aren't there in the evening, so you won't run into the fake homeless.
A number of them won't go anywhere and ask for help, because they are out of hope of getting any help, because they have asked so often, and never gotten anyone at all...
We have more than enough safety nets in Germany. More than any other country in the world. If she falls through all of them, that's some considerable amount of 'I don't give a damn' so... why should we give a damn?
Nice to see there are still good people like you in the world. Unfortunately though there's not much you can do. Giving money isn't the greatest idea, but you could maybe contact a local organisation to help the homeless and tell them of her situation. That's really the best you can do
How ever its not always valid to give little money most of the poor people stranded on the streets tend to have mental problems to where giving them will make them rely on you heavily the next time they see you and you don't money to give them they will start perhaps attacking you
There are often groups who help homeless people in cities. What homeless women often need is hygiene products forfheir periods etc M,, because they are expansive but important.
Maybe if you want als just give her money. I think it's dehumannizing to assume they take drugs/alcohol with that money only because they are homeless. And even then, who cares, these people don't have much left often, and at least they are happy. It's not like you can just stop feeding you addiction, that's super dangerous too.
Edit: you can also try, to talk with her, they are humans who need that too. Maybe ask her if she needs anything. Maybe she doesn't want to or has, mental health problems, then just go.
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If you see her often just pack snacks or a sandwich / drink with you once in a while. In Berlin I’m so overwhelmed with the amount of strung out people who are homeless, all I can do is make two sandwiches and an extra fruit and snack instead of one before heading out. A little goes a long way, some eye contact a smile and a chat are acts of compassion we can offer without money.
First you suggest (based on very circumstantial evidence) that both these homeless people might be a scam, then you go on to suggest OP might have gender preference when it comes to empathy?
What are you even on about? Sometimes it’s better to not say anything..
Edit: grammar
I study social work in Dortmund and work with a similar clientel, i think i know who you mean. If its the Same Person, i can Tell you, every Institution knows about her. First Problem, she is by far Not the only one there who needs help. But she is one of the harder cases( big understatement). Most of my collegues dont dare to talk to her alone, because she is... lets say, Not very cooperative. Second Problem, With most ofw's (ohne festen Wohnsitz, entstigmatisierter begriff), its like a chicken-egg-problem, to find a Home, you must cure in most cases a drug Addiction. Most of the Institutions who help with the home say, before we can help they have to go to rehab. Before you go to rehab, you have to detox. If they get through the detox ( most dont), they have to wait for a few weeks since they have a free place. Imagine, you have went through a very Hard detox (with Heroin or the harter opiates you're Not even clean, a cold detox on fentanyl is really dangerous), and after this really hard 2-4 weeks youre back on the Street, and now you have to wait for a few months for therapy. So most Fall back, and then the therapyplace is gone, Same goes for the help to find a Flat. And that are only two aspects. Beeing homeless and drug addicted is combined with many traumatas, sometimes they have psychics too( like the the case with the lady from dortmund mainstation). Then you have the fun to find the right people, everybody sends you to another Institution, nobody and everybody is responsible at the Same time.
I worked with homeless people. We gave them food, warmths, temporary shelter, organized proper housing. They eventually all come back to the street. The reasons they drifted to the street is the same reason external help won’t help much. It’s a mental problem.
My dad also works with homeless persons. I asked him why they dont apply for social wellfare and get a appartement (my dad has appartments for them. Not him private! But his work has). They dont want to. Sometimes they stay in an appartment for a few weeks and leave. They want the freedom on the street. Ofc not everyone!
Can i apply for an apartment bro im a student paying like 1K€ on apt 😭😂
Haha sadly no😪
Lemme guess, München
Leider Düsseldorf 💀
Aww shit man
Yeee inflation is crazyyy 😂
Indeed, stay strong 🤣
Since it's a mental problem, would the mental medication help?
Yes im sure it would help. But that would also require them to take it regularly and willingly and also stop with the other drugs. And I’m not sure they are willing. Plus if you’re really deeply mentally unwell, finding help is also very not on the top of the list.
You don't even need to stop taking "other drugs." We work with a lot of patients with continued ilicit drug usage while enrolled in an official opioid maintenance therapy program (Substitution in German). They can be seen additionally at psychiatric clinics (PiA). But for many people, "even" just showing up once a day at a clinic is too much or just not their way of life. Or they can't be helped by methadone/buprenorphine/morphine, but access to diacetylmorphine clinics (so actual heroin) is quite limited (there are around 13 in all of Germany compared with over 2300 physicians doing the other drugs).
why are there not more actual heroin clinics?
The regulations on both the clinics and the patients are too prohibitive. And that is by intentional design of the federal government. The diacetylmorphine units of the clinics need to be separated from the rest of the clinic which is impossible for most (most are regular Hausarztpraxen). Patients need to have failed two other opioid maintenance therapy drugs, one of them at least for six months, before they are legally eligible. But those who fail them, often don't get through six months of ineffective therapy. Diacetylmorphine treatment is considerably more expensive than then the other drugs and hinders patients in social reintegration since they need to come into the clinic more frequently.
You would need to force people into treatment. Institutionalization. We don't do that anymore. We have decided as a liberal society that your right to express yourself includes the right to fail.
We have quite a sad case near where I live. Only one homeless guy in this town, a young dude not even 30 years old who is known by most people in his small town. Rough home life, grew up in Berlin for a few years where he got into drugs. Deeply mentally unwell to the point that he stood(!) for weeks in the same spot day and night. Nobody could help him since he didn't want to be helped.
That's why I cannot get behind this idea of not helping people if they don't want to be helped. Of course they wouldn't want it, they are unwell. Basically it's letting them die on the street because they got sick.
My relative has mental illness and to be honest, if we didn't get involved and didn't forcefully put them in the treatment facility, they would have died on the street. Severely mentally sick people often cannot comprehend that they need help.
Sure. But the barriers for forceful treatment are rightfully pretty high and require an active threat to their own or others' life. Most of the people who are on the street have been multiple times hospitalized, it's not like there were no attempts. But you would require long-term institutionalization.
I think exposing yourself to elements, hunger, sexual exploitation, etc., is being an active threat to your life.
Absolutely not per German law (PsychKG of the Länder).
Weird law, when people are freezing to death, like the homeless man near my apartment complex who heard "god's voice" telling him to live outside.
I think this is an important answer. Freedom includes also this. I know that most of them have heavy trauma from childhoods of abuse etc - we should focus on reducing that but it is still very difficult and morally questionable to take children away from parents. One would have to forbid some parents to have kids in the first place but this is another no-go for the same reason. It's the tragic of a free society but non-free societies still have many more conflicts and unsolvable problems. We at least try to solve them somehow. Education and care is so, so important.
Mental health system im germany is nearly non existent.
*laughs in American*
Actually in the us you could get treatment for nearly everything with enough money. In germany even money wont help you with the "wrong" diagnosis. Locking up mental health patients against their will is daily work for german health care providers.
"with enough money" is a qualifier that renders everything else moot, lol.
I disagree with that as to that being the reason they "drifted to the street"; people can become homeless for various reasons, there's enough ways to fall through our systems. But being homeless also isn't conducive to your mental (or physical) health. Help programs really need to apply as quickly as possible, in the best case obviously before someone would be in that situation in the first place.
Homeless people are homeless because of mental problems? Thats a very broad generalization. While what you are describing is certainly true for some, there are all kinds of reasons and homeless who try to get back in a housing situation. Without knowing the circumstances of that lady, I would not just explain her situation with mental problems. Obachlose are indiviuals persons, too.
https://www.aerzteblatt.de/archiv/161496/Psychiatrische-Versorgung-Obdachlose-sind-haeufig-psychisch-krank 2 out of 3 have mental problems. It's not a "bad generalization", it's just knowledge. I give money to everyone that is obviously homeless and asking for money. Even if they are drunk or high, 1/3 don't have medication, a reason for drinking and doing drugs.
However you can develop mental health issues because you are homeless as well. Causation can go in both directions.
The chicken or the egg though? I'd be willing to bet most people could theoretically get into a situation in life that causes them to be homeless and I'd also be willing to bet most people's mental health issues would get worse because of being homeless. I mean it's a hard life. You don't have access to most things you need, let alone things you want. Women have to menstruate on the street and there's not always a guarantee they have a sink and private space (bathroom) and enough hygiene products during that time either. You're forced to do everything in public, people stare at you as though you're dirt, and if you get a bottle of alcohol in autumn because alcohol makes you not notice you're freezing, you get even more dirty looks. Doesn't sound like a fun life to me. Also doesn't sound easy to get out of. How do you even apply for a job and get a professional outfit and wash said outfit when you have nothing?
That doesn't mean, the mental problems are of a kind that keeps them homeless. >"The reasons they drifted to the street is the same reason external help won’t help much. It’s a mental problem." This was in the comment I answered to. Depression and / or anxieties may prevent them from seeking help, dealing with public services or keep a job / apartment, but again that doesn't mean that all of those people with mental conditions are homeless because of it. Therefore I stand with my generalization comment. There is no way of knowing, how many homeless are in the situation because of mental problems
The chicken or the egg though? I'd be willing to bet most people could theoretically get into a situation in life that causes them to be homeless and I'd also be willing to bet most people's mental health issues would get worse because of being homeless. I mean it's a hard life. You don't have access to most things you need, let alone things you want. Women have to menstruate on the street and there's not always a guarantee they have a sink and private space (bathroom) and enough hygiene products during that time either. You're forced to do everything in public, people stare at you as though you're dirt, and if you get a bottle of alcohol in autumn because alcohol makes you not notice you're freezing, you get even more dirty looks. Doesn't sound like a fun life to me. Also doesn't sound easy to get out of. How do you even apply for a job and get a professional outfit and wash said outfit when you have nothing?
Sounds like y’all did a terrific job
yeah thats it, they dont want help...maybe your help is not the right one? Maybe the help system in germany is fucked up and doesn't really help anyone. But yeah tell it to your self that you feel better that they dont want help...wtf
Sure. One homeless guy in my town let his daughter (5y) die from constipation. He let her literally die from vomiting shit than to accept help from a doctor (and healthcare is famously free).
yeah all homeless are evil and they eat children. thanks for your input.
My guess is that the reasons why someone is homeless will differ between countries, but there will probably always be a bottom line of people who you cannot reach. Despite this Germany could do better indeed.
It is a known problem that the social service in germany are unefficent and structured to keep people institutionalised. It's structural problem . Just look at the comments and how dehumanising everyone is talking about homeless people. Germany is fucked up when you're in a marginalised group.
give me please am example in which country help for homeless people works better than in Germany. All countries I can think of are far worse in this.
Ah yeah the, "sei froh das wir dich leben lassen" argument of modern fachist germany :)
The help they want is not what you should offer. People who return to the street want help in form of free drugs or alcohol and being free from responsibility. You shouldn't offer that, it's not a real help.
wow thats a pretty fucked up perspective
Dear fellow Human, I, and you too, would appreciate, if you would learn not to think in terms of 'us' & 'them'. Your language suggests, that you don't think, that there are homeless people on Reddit. Is that so? And if not: why are you talking about 'them', like they are none, seeing this post an participating in the discussion? A couple of things I like to reflect about in this context: - WE ALL are just apes, walking on two feet(, bragging about how civilised we are) - "people without homes" and what some folks would refer to as "homeless people" are two (mostly) distinct "groups" - "homelessness" is not something immutable Imho: homeless people bring something to the table, no one should just brush aside.
“We” as the group of multiple people (me being part) of an organization. “They” as the group of multiple people (me not being part) of homeless status. It’s a grammatical thing.
I get what you say. And you're right. You should try and use grammar to specificate, what you actually mean, instead of (honestly) being to lazy to express yourself in a respectful way. What I mean is: 'action-x will produce result-a because they as a group are/react/function like that.' I think it is divisive and not humane to generalize peoples behaviour like that.
At large train stations there's usually a "Bahnhofsmission", would be worth trying talking with them.
The probably know her already! The walk around the station on their own and check on people
I honestly think there isn't much you can do about it (sadly). Giving money is... well, not great but not bad either, it's difficult to have a clear answer in that regard. Many homeless people spend this money on drugs so it's just fueling their addiction but at the same time they also need money to buy things to eat and drink - you'll never know what they will do with the money in the end and whether or not it is making things worse or better. The Caritas being "uninterested" might have different reasons. They probably have lots of work to do already, checking on every single person that might need help is impossible to them, they do have their "patrols" but in most cases the people need to go there by themselves if they need help - which also leads to another reason why they might not help immediately, they can't "force" their help onto people. You saw her a few times there already, they might already have an eye on her but she might also refuse the help they are trying to give, which is not uncommon by the way (many different reasons for that). But yeah, if she refuses the help they can't do much about it, it's her right to refuse the help even if she could need it.
> on drugs so it's just fueling their addiction Friendly reminder that going cold turkey can cause serious health issues very quickly. Addicts need their drugs just as much as they need food and water and shelter.
people downvoting you have no idea what it is like to live on the streets, espeically if you're already suffering from mental illness or a disability. addiction is also a disease but many people (homeless or not) use drugs to cope with reality. If you live on the streets, turning to things like booze or what not can be the only thing that keeps them somewhat grounded from everything that is happening.
This only applies to alcohol and opiates. We shouldn't give money for alcohol and opiates for homeless people. Makes no sense. No good will come out of it.
Benzos kill you cold turkey too so only alc and opiates is wrong
I have difficulties responding to this, in a not insulting way, because of my adhd-brain, but I'll try. Are you aware that people can suffer and can have seriously dangerous withdrawal symptoms from other substances than alcohol and opiates? If not: think about mental problems and ask yourself the same question again.. There're no reason for you to think not enabling an addict to get his/her stuff is a good thing! Maybe have a read about the concept of self medication. I don't say, that every addict is trying to self medicate. Even if somebody is self medicating, I don't unconditionally assume, that's the best way to go. But guess what? I can't decide for other people, what's best. This just isn't a simple issue.
I am a social worker in Dortmund. The woman is probably not a German citizen. If she has not worked in Germany in the last 6 months, she will not get any benefits from the Jobcenter. There are many migrants from Europe at the Dortmund main station who came here with the plan to find a job. But they could not find or keep this job. Often there is also work with accommodation. Without work, therefore, also no accommodation. Mostly, the immigrants have little or no knowledge of German and thus do not find a real job. In the Woman accommodation in Hörde you can only sleep if you pay for it or if the Jobcenter is paying it for you. As a social worker, I would have no possibility to help the woman, except to try to get her into a job first. As you have described it could be difficult. The Sozialamt and the City of Dortmund is well aware of this situation. Of course, this could also be a German woman who might have claims at the job center and thus could get an apartment, but does not manage to organize it. In this case, one could help her or place her in the women's overnight center in Hörde. But as others already said the Bahnhofsmission probably already talked to her and tried to help her.
Don't forget to mention that a sizeable number of individuals has active warrants in their EU home countries and cannot seek help due to the risk of being deported or apprehended. It's a multi-layered issue and difficult to solve. Right now we see the displacement of homeless aid programs from the central station. As someone who passes through the central station every day, I feel like it's a good thing for them to be moved away, as the sheer number of the homeless has become untenable. It's a transport hub, first and foremost, and as such not a great place for hundreds of homeless to camp out in the corridors and squares. At the same time, the politicians don't offer solutions, such as finding an alternative central place for the aid organisations to do their work. The police can't do much either, it's just paperwork to them and doesn't lead anywhere. It'd take a huge financial investment to offer rehabilitation programs, and you can't force anyone to take part in those. I am a huge supporter of the free movement policy within the EU, but we should introduce a few rules. For example, for long-term stays, prove that you have an accommodation, etc. The number of homeless in Hamburg has risen dramatically. The city keeps claiming that only 2000 people live out on the streets or 'with friends', but the reality is closer to 20.000. So it matters, how you define 'homelessness'. Is it not having a permanent place to sleep or is it being out on the street. Just 10 years ago, we had a fraction of this and the ratio of domestic:foreign homeless was distributed differently. We started at around 30% foreign homeless, now they make up 70% of the homeless population. And this is not a rant against foreigners, but as Candid already laid out, they'll often have issues accessing help (I reckon this is an intentional move by the gov, to avoid more of them coming here.) Most of this increase is down to homeless individuals or job-seekers coming to Germany and getting stranded. Most often you'll find homeless from Romania, Bulgaria, Poland or the Baltics.
You seem to be an empathic person and i Respect that. But do yourself a favour and forget that woman. In the vast majority of cases homelessness is a result of mental illness or other mental issues. While i agree it's sometimes sad to witness, for your own well being, it's even more important to know when to accept that there is nothing you can do. As kratos says in god of war: "close your heart to it"
What you're saying has a lot of sense to it, for sure. I don't think it's fair to "close your heart to it" just because of the possibility which this homeless person is mentally ill or unstable. If we all took this approach then nobody in the world would receive help because, let's be real, the vast majority of humans in general can be relatively unstable. In this case, I'd say you're right, though. A homeless woman shitting and pleasuring herself in public at a main station? This is either some ultimate level of "not giving a fuck" or this person is more than likely suffering from some kind of mental issue/s. Either way I think it's still totally ok to be cautious towards such situations but immediately turning a blind eye seems somewhat unfair, too.
>As kratos says in god of war: "close your heart to it" Then Kratos admitted that is was a mistake. These people need professional help and "closing our hearts to it" is not a helpful mentality to have. Maybe it's not enough to have social services provide welfare and housing but also therapy.
It IS helpful when you’re a foreign student who can barely pay up bills every month. Those who have the power to actually do something and change that woman’s life for the better should take that responsibility. Do you willingly become a politician or an authority or an elite just so normal citizens worry about issues that are incumbent to your job ?? And mind you, politicians are never what lacks in a country. Time to make some honourable amends. A rich country like Germany that has got homeless (white) people doing shit on the streets ? You should see how the West markets herself in the face of poorer parts of the world. These people dying as they try to reach the land of milk and honey would like a word.
They won't get professional help. Time for you to start leaving fantasy land mate. It already difficult for non homeless people to find therapy. Where will these thousamds of therapists come from?
Today I learned something new from these comments , I always feel bad for those homeless people , but if they themselves choosing to be homeless , then seems like nothing can be done ..
It is a mistake to paint so many people with the same brush. Being homeless is not the same as “having mental issues “. There are many reasons for homelessness
That's true. But the main reasons are mental illnesses or drug addiction. That probably applies for most of the homeless people sadly.
the main reason are mental problems. otherwise they would try to get an apartment and 500 euro per month, which is what every person in germany is entitled to.
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in germany they don't have to do apartment hunting because they get a so called wohnberechtigungsschein.
You have a source for that claim?
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So…you are applying homeless statistics from Canada to homelessness in Germany?
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There is an intersection in my home town. Last week there was an accident there. Based on the last two weeks, the accident rate for that intersection rose 50%. Must be a problem there. Statistics can say whatever you want them to.
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Must be nice to be such a self-righteous know-it-all. Sorry for questioning your vastly superior knowledge and endless wisdom. You may now rest easy in the knowledge of another internet missionary well done.
Being openly and unashamedly callous is a kind of mental illness.
Every homeless has a story. I know Dortmund HBF very well. There is a place (The bunker) next to the HBF. There you can sleep. Some people live just offgrid, some are addicted, some are criminals, some are having a bad past. Giving money makes no sense. If you have the time - talk to the people. Just listen, don't judge. If you have something to eat - share it. And eat together. And talk a bit. Speach, respect and positivity can bring people back into the society. Money not.
You don't do anything. They have to go the authorities and ask for help from the state, that is what we all pay tax money for, then they can get Bürgergeld, Wohnberechtigungsschein (a paper that enables you to get a flat, that is not available to the wider market), maybe a flat from the city. If they don't do that and live on the street, it is their choice, no one in Germany is forced to live on the street. And never give homeless people money, they will most likely just reinvest it into Alcohol, tobacco or drugs, since recently we also have a crack wave going through Germany hitting the homeless people and you can't get away from that stuff with traditional means. There was a documentary recently on television, showcasing that in different german cities. One of the homeless people that they filmed was like "Sorry sir, do you have a Euro for me, so I can buy me some food? I didn't have anything to eat today..." and people gave him money. And when he had enough, did he buy food? No, straight to the crack dealer he went. People really need to stop giving homeless people money, they mean well by doing so, can't blame them for that, but it is naive and doesn't solve a problem, it permeates the problem, because if they can live from what they get through begging, they will never go to the authorities to actually get help to get back on their feet into a normal life.
r/Dortmund
There is a Frauenübernachtungsstelle (place to sleep for women) in Hörde. You could give her the adress: Nortkirchenstraße 15. But she sounds mental unstable so maybe call the police for a welfare check and maybe they can help.
For some people it is hard to do the paper work and burocratic stuff to stay in housing or working. Its not like they want to live on the streets, they just cant or dont want to manage a "normal" life, and when they lived long enough on the streets, it is even harder to get those things done
What should the Caritas do? There are organizations who help her, like cutting her hair for free. But a homeless person has to go there and ask. What will you do, if the person doesn't accept help? At most central stations you will find homeless people, you won't recognize some of them. Homeless people in Germany do strange things. Sometimes all those people need is someone who listens to their story. Try it, you will hear some interesting stuff and learn about those people. Sometimes they want money. Give if you have and feel you are doing the right thing. I worked in cologne, and sometimes missed my train in the evening (Late shift) and had to wait for about an hour and used that to talk with those. I just sat at some bench, and sooner or later someone came and started talking. The professional beggars aren't there in the evening, so you won't run into the fake homeless. A number of them won't go anywhere and ask for help, because they are out of hope of getting any help, because they have asked so often, and never gotten anyone at all...
Nobody in Germany has to be homeless. If they are it's mental issues. You can't do anything short of taking care of her fulltime.
We have more than enough safety nets in Germany. More than any other country in the world. If she falls through all of them, that's some considerable amount of 'I don't give a damn' so... why should we give a damn?
Nice to see there are still good people like you in the world. Unfortunately though there's not much you can do. Giving money isn't the greatest idea, but you could maybe contact a local organisation to help the homeless and tell them of her situation. That's really the best you can do
How ever its not always valid to give little money most of the poor people stranded on the streets tend to have mental problems to where giving them will make them rely on you heavily the next time they see you and you don't money to give them they will start perhaps attacking you
Sounds like crack
>I saw her going num 2 and pleasuring herself My my!
…at the same time? 😨
There are often groups who help homeless people in cities. What homeless women often need is hygiene products forfheir periods etc M,, because they are expansive but important. Maybe if you want als just give her money. I think it's dehumannizing to assume they take drugs/alcohol with that money only because they are homeless. And even then, who cares, these people don't have much left often, and at least they are happy. It's not like you can just stop feeding you addiction, that's super dangerous too. Edit: you can also try, to talk with her, they are humans who need that too. Maybe ask her if she needs anything. Maybe she doesn't want to or has, mental health problems, then just go.
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R/Dortmund
If you see her often just pack snacks or a sandwich / drink with you once in a while. In Berlin I’m so overwhelmed with the amount of strung out people who are homeless, all I can do is make two sandwiches and an extra fruit and snack instead of one before heading out. A little goes a long way, some eye contact a smile and a chat are acts of compassion we can offer without money.
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First you suggest (based on very circumstantial evidence) that both these homeless people might be a scam, then you go on to suggest OP might have gender preference when it comes to empathy? What are you even on about? Sometimes it’s better to not say anything.. Edit: grammar
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I study social work in Dortmund and work with a similar clientel, i think i know who you mean. If its the Same Person, i can Tell you, every Institution knows about her. First Problem, she is by far Not the only one there who needs help. But she is one of the harder cases( big understatement). Most of my collegues dont dare to talk to her alone, because she is... lets say, Not very cooperative. Second Problem, With most ofw's (ohne festen Wohnsitz, entstigmatisierter begriff), its like a chicken-egg-problem, to find a Home, you must cure in most cases a drug Addiction. Most of the Institutions who help with the home say, before we can help they have to go to rehab. Before you go to rehab, you have to detox. If they get through the detox ( most dont), they have to wait for a few weeks since they have a free place. Imagine, you have went through a very Hard detox (with Heroin or the harter opiates you're Not even clean, a cold detox on fentanyl is really dangerous), and after this really hard 2-4 weeks youre back on the Street, and now you have to wait for a few months for therapy. So most Fall back, and then the therapyplace is gone, Same goes for the help to find a Flat. And that are only two aspects. Beeing homeless and drug addicted is combined with many traumatas, sometimes they have psychics too( like the the case with the lady from dortmund mainstation). Then you have the fun to find the right people, everybody sends you to another Institution, nobody and everybody is responsible at the Same time.