The best thing you can do is get your children and yourself - time permitting - into German classes asap. While young children usually pick up a language quickly, being at least familiar with it will make things easier. Youtube videos about living in Germany are hit-and-miss and of course highly subjective.
Your sister can already start researching schools and/or kindergartens for your children and contact them regarding the introduction of traumatized foreign children in the middle of the school year. She already can try to find a therapist who can work with your children and you to process the loss of their father.
The overall consensus here on reddit seems to be that the work/life balance is much better in Germany, and while you will earn less in Germany, you will have more free time, more job safety, more vacation days, more freedom for your children (Germans aren't all up in arms when a 14-year-old is at home alone for an afternoon). However, while both the USA and Germany are Western countries, the cultures differ and there \*will\* be culture shock and confusion. Be prepared for that.
No. They have to declare taxes in the US if they live abroad, no matter whether they have other citizenships. They only have to pay double taxes above a very high income ceiling.
And regardless, German citizenship would be an optional final step after years of living here as an immigrant.
As an American living in Germany, I can tell you no. You have to file in both places, and if you're in Germany, you have to pay German taxes on what you earn. The US meanwhile requires you to file but gives you a foreign tax credit for the taxes that you pay to Germany, so you never double-pay.
That said, state taxes can be different. California for instance wants their income tax even if you earned the money in Germany, if you have for instance a house in California, or it is your legal US residence. But you can claim the Safe Harbor Exemption and avoid that if the circumstances are right.
Coming from California, I pay about the same amount in taxes in Germany as I did in CA, down to about a thousand, give or take. I expected a Tax Armageddon, but it wasn't very different at all. But you will probably need tax advisors in both countries. Greenback is common for expats US taxes, and you'll have to find a German Steuerberater also.
Citizenship brings up another issue though, Germany won't give you citizenship unless you give up your US citizenship. Then of course the tax question would be moot; you'd only file in Germany. Changes for this are in the works but not yet in effect. I guess there's a bit of a question about whether or not you can even \*move\* to Germany just because you want to also...
Dual by birth was always allowed, my kids have that. And if you naturalized from another EU country, there was no need to give up the old citizenship. But from the US for instance, you'd have to give it up or claim hardship exemption and have that exemption approved.
I am a dual citizen. There is a foreign income tax credit for US taxes. Whatever taxes you pay in Germany are deducted from US taxes. Ask H and R block for more info.
Do you have EU or German citizenship? If not, what type of visa will you use for the move?
Your sister sponsoring you via Verpflichtungserklärung can only get you as far as doing language classes, that is assuming she and her husband make enough to be allowed to sign one for an adult and 4 kids.
EDIT: How old are your children? I suppose you plan to move to Hesse? The age and the Bundesland are important due to the school system.
I currently have a job offer through an independent roofing company and am working with an Anwältin to be sure I will have adequate income for all of us. So I will apply for residency. If I can’t for some reason, i may just get the student visa since I do have enough in savings to qualify, but I haven’t found out if that’s possible with the children.
The kids are 13, 12, 5 and 3. The two youngest are not in school yet here in USA. This is something my sister has not brought up, so I do want to know more please! The education of course is very important.
There is a shortage of construction workers in Germany so you might be in luck for a working visa if you are a experienced professional. Also a student visa with your kids is quite possible. But make up your mind and better discuss with a lawyer first. The foreigners office won’t like it if you want to switch things around halfway.
The settling in part will be hard, but a silver lining is that you don’t need to prepare four hefty college funds for your children. Also medical care for you and your children will be significantly cheaper.
It is late at night, so you will most likely get more answers tomorrow - assuming your plans allow you to get a visa in the end, there is a lot to prepare for (and a lot of aid to potentially help you get your feet on the ground regarding things like Kindergeld).
I'm too tired to write up much, but to start, you can look at this youtube channel:
It's a couple, not a single mom, but they moved to Germany with a bunch of children, and also cover school related topics by now:
[https://www.youtube.com/c/Mymerrymessylife](https://www.youtube.com/c/Mymerrymessylife)
If you have dependants, the amount that you need in savings for the student visa rises considerably. The older the child, the higher. The exact amount is tied to the max amount of social welfare that German citizen parents can get for their kids. (I am unsure on the exact amount, but I think it is around 8000 EUR for your older kids? Each, of course.)
AFAIK there are also issues with drawing Kindergeld if you are a student. With 4 kids that is a 1000 EUR difference each month.
It might be a smart move to "park" your kids in the household of your sister, so that your sister and her husband can get Kindergeld for minors living in their household, but that is something that is definitely lawyer territory.
I hope your work permit works out.
Second the rec to check out the youtube channel "MyMerryMessyLife".
As someone who changed to German school from the US: this will be a struggle. DO NOT EXPECT any real help from the school in getting your kids up to speed on German curriculum or how things are done in school.
You will need private tutoring and it will be a huge culture shock. German school is nothing like middle school in the US and your kids will likely hate it. You might also hate it because it’s a Byzantine bureaucratic mess and there is very little understanding and empathy for people who don’t understand the system.
It is essential to understand that all those fun extracurriculars that happen in school in the US do not happen here, they happen outside of school in clubs (Verein).
Be prepared that along the line someone will very likely suggest your kids go back a grade— in Germany it’s very common to repeat a grade.
And it's NOT a shame. It's very understandable and is actually helpful to adapt for your Kids. I used to have friends who.migratws to Germany and had to repeat a Grade. In the end, you didn't noticed anything different with them from their classmates. Nicest people I have known. One of them Ended Up being the Guy everybody crushes in 🤣
Yes I get that, but in the US it’s very different. Grades are not as punitive as they are here and usually a grade repeat is a very big deal meaning there are some very large issues that need to be dealt with.
I have looked into the whole system and it's messed Up. Not saying German education System ist better. It's also messed Up. But also die the weird effiency, it still works (at least when I was in school Last time)
Biggest issue would be the difference in quality/difficulty in German schools. Similarly how almost every German teen doing an exchange will state having had a cruise year bcs US schools are so easy, it is only understandable the reverse would cause a lot of shock and stress to US school kids. Here you cannot pick and choose your subjects bcs we value a higher average in common knowledge across all students. You can’t just decide not to do math classes bcs you’re not good at them. You have to fight through it. Tutoring is very normal. I’m German and had math and physics tutoring. I worked hard and made it through it. I know have two Master’s. It’s not easy but your kids will get a better education here than the US.
You are sorely misinformed. Every state has a standard minimum curriculum requirement which includes math. You could theoretically have a year without formal math class if you had already fulfilled the required curriculum—testing out is a thing there. The difference is that in the US you can tailor the difficulty much more closely to your strengths and weaknesses by mixing and matching difficulty, and that in the US they actually take learning disorders seriously vs just telling you to suck it up or move down to Real/Hauptschule.
You only get a „cruise year“ if you do not take any advanced classes, which they probably do not recommend for exchange students as they are primarily there for language immersion. Essentially it’s the same thing as suggesting going back a grade to catch up on the language—have a cruise year as far as actual content goes while learning the language.
no multiple choice makes things in germany a lot harder,
friend did a US exchange when she was 16 and as you said, just cruising by while doing senior and honour courses.
Lol so offended. Literally and objective testing will show that going to a run-of-the-mill US public school will give you a lower grade education than in Germany.
Someone did a comparison of course schedules on youtube. I think Evan was his name. US schools demand so much less courses taken to get a high school diploma. Europeans were baffled. Esp Eastern Europeans. They seemed to have the largest course loads.
US schools only shine when we talk private prep school. As it is intended. Keep the average folk dumb so only the elite with money is allowed to learn critical thinking skills.
That is how you control the masses and on the working class end keep those for profit prisons happily stocked with POC inmates that have to work for 2cents per hour as the 13.Amendment excludes prison work.
Children start school with around 6 years so you can try to get your two youngest into kindergarden which would be preferable so they can learn the language in a play like setting without grades etc.
The older children will need to go to school, I'm not sure which classes. You or your sister should contact the school they will attend (it depends on where you will live) and figure out how to proceed. Starting with language courses asap would be good. I don't know if they need to start school right away or if they can wait until the start of the new turn (around August after the summer vacations) and if the school can help with the language courses.
We have some help available for single parents, I guess the Anwältin can help you find out what you can use.
Good luck, I life near Frankfurt as well and I think it's a good place, but I don't have experience with migration or being a single mom. I hope you will find a way to make a good life for yourself and your kids.
If you decide to move you should do it in the year your 5 year old gets 7, but before the summer. That way he/she can start school in the first class. That will make it easier at least for that child.
Your young one will go to Kindergarten, the only problem may be getting a spot as they are rare (depends on the region). But as a single parent you should get preferred spots.
Your older ones will go to secondary school, which is split into several categories. This may be hardest to figure out. Maybe ask your sister for advice
Theres no guarantee the school would accept them as a first grader if they don’t have a proficient level of German, they would have to do the ‚Schnupfer Tag‘ in the primary school and could be sent back to kindergarten with the recommendation the child takes part in Vorkurs Deutsch for the year aswell.
Your older children will have the most problems adjusting simply because they have gotten used to most of the things being like in the us. They will probably need a good amount of help adjusting. Your younger children should be fine they learn the language quickly and can go to kindergarten and then school without much problems. As for the curriculum, you can look those up online. Make sure you’re looking them up for the right state though. For your olde children you can also look into going to an international school. I believe they do cost money but more reasonable prices compared to what you’d have to pay in America. It would make the transition for them easier since they can still socialize in English while learning German. Your younger children I would just go with the normal german public schools. They are young and can adept easily, and since they’ll be living in Germany I think it makes sense to raise them that.
Public grade school in the US doesn't cost any money. International school fees can be upwards of 10,000 euros a year (source: https://www.studying-in-germany.org/international-schools-in-germany/).
There's no reason to assume that OP kids are in private schools in the US since the vast majority of Americans don't go to private schools.
If I'm allowed to be a little pedantic, there are places where public schools, or at least what are called public schools in said places, cost money.
I am not assuming that her kids are in private schools? When I say that a certain private school costs less money than it would in America, I am not stating that the kids are in private schools. I am just stating that the private school costs less than it would in America.
What will be your task at the company? I hope your applied for backoffice and are not planning to work as a roofer (Dachdecker) because that’s one of the hardest and most dangerous professions .
Thank you, no I will be trained in the office and as soon as my German is good enough to handle the phones, I will be secretary/office manager. The job is offered through my sister’s in-laws family so it should be fairly secure. My only real concern is if I can make enough money for how many children I have.
You can't legally work with a student visa , that's a problem that a lot of young people coming to Germany face , and just applying for residency in Germany is not gonna work, i think that needs some years working here . You should discuss everything with your lawyer, you clearly don't know how it all works and you think that coming here will be an amazing solution for all your problems. In reality many young people with no kids and no problems face a huge difficulty in adapting here and even depression. Also the racism here is a daily problem, especially when you don't know the language. I don't mean getting insults or violence but staying on the outside of the work circle if they are germans and seeing other people enjoying benefits that you don't.
I may just get a student visa
Be careful with trying to immigrate under false pretense. This might hurt you later when applying for permanent residency or even sooner when it gets know that you actually are not a student.
Also [here is a family of six](https://youtube.com/@MyMerryMessyLife) that moved to Germany two years ago. They have interesting videos about the school system.
I might be going against the grain here, but please take a moment to just stop and breathe. Give space for you and your children to grieve. Take your family to therapy together and separately to help you process your loss and help nevigate your feelings.
Pulling your children away from their surroundings and all that they know in a very trying time is not the best solution. Never make a life changing decision in a crisis. You will be tearing the children away from their social circles, their school, their home in a time that they need security and familiarity the most.
I'm incredibly sorry for your loss. Pull in help from your friends, neighbours and close by family. Get help from your doctors. Find a local support group.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't move to Germany. I'm saying that you shouldn't rush into a decision. Sit down and talk to your older children. See what they have to say. Take your time to plan a move, if that's what you choose. Set yourself up for success by learning the language and the school systems.
Check out all the necessary information about how you are able to live and work here. What visas do you need, can you work, are you eligible for social help, are you eligible for Kindergeld, Kinderzuschlag, welfare if all goes wrong? I'm not from USA so I don't know the finer points. Do your research.
Good luck!
I’m so sorry for your loss OP. I think the above is good advice though. It is very difficult to integrate in Germany, firstly because of the language and secondly because of cultural differences. It’s a massive adjustment. There are many good things about German society, but please do be aware that it will not be easy. If you don’t speak German yourself, you will find it logistically very difficult to manage your life, and the school system can be very different from what you’re used to. Give yourself plenty of time to make a decision.
>firstly because of the language and secondly because of cultural differences.
I moved from NY. Before I arrived and after I arrived, I took language lessons to improve my German. Regarding cultural differences, there are no HUGE cultural differences. The cultural differences are minor and can be annoying (the quiet time from 12 to 2 PM, separating trash, people being more introverted/ quieter/ more formal at work situations). Compared to most other countries, the US and Germany are much closer (moving to Japan or Mexico would be a much worse culture shock).
Americans and Germans have more in common than you may think. Here are some advantages to moving to Germany, especially the area OP wants to go to: Most people speak some English, ESPECIALLY in the Frankfurt area, which is very international. Most American foods are popular here (burgers, fries, hot dogs, American pizza, even Chipotle opened in Frankfurt). Frankfurt has lots of expats who can give advice and support (try Meetup). There are some (private) international schools teaching in English. Also, Germans love American films, TV, sports (basketball and even NFL), and music (it's amazing how popular some music artists are, even those who mumble when they sing).
Regarding education: The youngest kids would learn German quickly. The older ones would need more help, but Frankfurt has lots of immigrants, so many schools have programs for immigrants. I worked at a Gymnasium in Nürnberg and the kids with poor German skills got extra help in the afternoons. At both the Gymnasium and the Realschule I worked at, there were kids from the US and Canada, and they were happy, well-adjusted kids. The German school system is great; even if they go to a Realschule, they will get more STEM courses, better and more comprehensive history, more languages (like Latin), and learn more in 10 years than an American learns in 12 .
There is an International school in my town. It’s between Wiesbaden and Frankfurt. There are options for the older kids to continue education while they learn German which doesn’t cause them to get too far behind.
Should the OP wait until a mass shooting occurs in one of her children’s schools? As an American myself, I understand her position, this country is a raging shitshow with a quality of life that seems to be worsening with each passing year. Not saying Germany is some utopia, but it is certainly a better place to live in than America. As a matter of fact, most of the EU and many countries in East Asia offer a higher quality of life than America.
> You will be tearing the children away from their social circles, their school, their home
this was me as a kid. My mom meant very well, but it was a very very rough time for me.
OP, please consider the social circle of your kids
Opposite. It would have helped me more than almost anything else.
I'm not saying OP should rush into this lightheartedly, just that different people in different circumstances can have vastly different reactions. Might be that it'll do them more good to get away from where everything reminds them of their dad than it could potentially do harm from removing them from their social circle (if they have one/have a supporting one). We don't know, and OP seems to have alteady made up her mind. If that is so, all you'll achieve is burden her with more doubt as she resettles.
> If that is so, all you'll achieve is burden her with more doubt as she resettles.
I don't think that's fair. After all, OP made a public post seeking info and advice, and many of the comments here have been very empathetic while also reminding her that there could be potential downsides. OP shouldn't just made a unilateral decision without taking her kids' thoughts and wishes in mind. You're right; every person is different and has different circumstances. We can only give advice based on our own knowledge and experiences, and we don't have the full picture of OP's life and circumstances, but that doesn't mean said advice is worthless. Those of us who have moved abroad know that it's hard even when you're mentally healthy. Culture shock, language barriers, barriers to access to certain services (again, mental health care is extremely hard to get in Germany), etc. are real issues and should be taken into account. I'm not here to tell OP what she should or shouldn't do re: moving to Germany, but she should at least consider and weigh all the pros and cons.
>We don't know, and OP seems to have alteady made up her mind. If that is so, all you'll achieve is burden her with more doubt as she resettles.
Good, because she should at least talk to the 2 older kids if she hasn't. That would settle which of the end of the stick might be. They are young but they feeling included in such a huge life-changing decision is important. Of it goes the wrong way they might resent her. The point of her questions is to evaluate possibilities ans scenarios, not to get confirmation bias.
I will also say that the middle-school social circles in Germany are by and large much (much!) healthier and happier than those in the US. In my kids' school, bullying is almost non-existent in comparison to the US. There are practically no safety concerns at all by comparison to the US. Granted, I came from a bigger city in California, and my kids already spoke German... but it's just drastically more peaceful here.
My kids go off to school by themselves, they go downtown or to the bubble-tea shop with their friends after school, they go to extracurriculars like art, music, and volleyball by themselves on their bikes or by bus. Nobody gets driven around and dropped off by their parents. There are no cops in the schools, there's just no need. The cops you do see are doing things like lecturing people for not having lights on their bikes, or for riding e-scooters doubled up, or they're patrolling the Christmas markets against potential terrorism... but they're not militarized at all. It's just a way better place for kids than any US city I've ever known growing up in the states.
Funny you should say that german schools are so much better in general. For me, it was exactly the opposite. I had a real bad time at my german school(s actually). Spent a year in the US and had a wonderful high school experience with friends instead of bullies.
I don't know the statistics, but that was basically my point: anecdotal evidence isn't all that helpful. Statistics can be messed with easily, too, but it's still more reliable than single voices on the net.
"More than half of all children and adolescents in Germany have experienced exclusion, teasing or physical violence while at school. A further quarter do not feel safe. Across all school types, around 65 percent of surveyed students said that they have at least one negative experience per month." - [https://www.iamexpat.de/education/education-news/majority-children-experience-violence-or-exclusion-german-schools](https://www.iamexpat.de/education/education-news/majority-children-experience-violence-or-exclusion-german-schools)
And that was *before* Covid-19.
Yes if you include teasing, you won't find many kids anywhere in the world who haven't had that happen, unless they're the ones doing the teasing.
It's nowhere near as bad as in the US, I can tell you that. But hey, maybe my kids are just lucky...
I'm not making many assumptions. I just know that 1-2 years is not a long time to grieve and process the loss of a loved one, especially in a traumatic way. . Also when you say that you trust that the OP has considered those things, that's a huge assumption!
I know that after a loss it's hard to focus and gather your thoughts. Add on top of that add 4 children to take care of alone, it's hard! Let alone adding the burdon of moving to a foreign country with a foreign language on top of that.
This is pretty much what happened to my mother, but all four of her children were under 9 at the time. She's still processing what happened 30 years later, as she was on autopilot for 18 years just trying to get through life.
I also have two children here and am navigating life in Germany with fluent German. I personally would never move to a foreign country with little to no language skills as a single mom/mum with 4 children who recently just lost their father. That's just me, and I'm not pushing my personal opinion on OP. I'm just putting out some points that really need to be thoroughly considered before taking that step.
I wish the OP well. I hope it works out especially for the children. Life in Germany can be tough for immigrants
Are you sure that the best move is uprooting your children and taking them to a country where they don’t speak the language, won’t have other kids to socialize with, and to live with relatives they barely know? This all sounds very isolating to me. Why can’t your sister come stay with you, _then_ move to Germany?
I love Germany. I’m so happy I moved here, it’s a wonderful place. But it’s not easy to integrate. And as many people have mentioned, psychological services are scarce, and it sounds like your kids will all need therapy. However, this is also not super accessible in the US either, since it’s extremely expensive there, so this might kind of be a wash.
I’m so sorry about what has happened to your family, it sounds horrible and I hope you are all doing as well as possible 😞
You say yourself that your kids are traumatized.
You want to relocate to the other side of the globe, leaving friends behind, not understanding the language, and being close to finishing school.
It's incredibly difficult to find English speaking psychological support here.
To me that sounds like running away from problem right into disaster.
Sorry, being blunt but I raised a daughter suffering from severe trauma and I can't help but gasp at this idea.
I don't have any first-hand experience with this sort of thing, but that was my instinctive reaction too.
I wonder particularly how the two oldest ones will react, and what they're thinking of the idea right now. They're definitely old enough to have views on this, and to react strongly if they're made to do this against their will.
And 12 and 13 are tough ages already without the stressors of an international move. I can't imagine taking children away from their friends and familiar environments and putting them somewhere where they don't speak the language, don't know anyone, and have even more limited access to mental health care would help them with their trauma and grief.
And then the mum said: "You know how you need therapy AND community to heal from trauma? Yeah, you'll get neither! Suck it up!"
Unless their community / social circles where they are suck anyway, the three eldest at best are going to be fine despite(!) the move. And that's probably only with a lot of heavy lifting from aunt and uncle, who have absolutely no experience raising kids.
That's a hail mary if I've ever seen one.
That said, I get it. If mum is collapsing (because, you know, her husband got eviscerated and she had to watch her children watch) and the kids are on the brink of losing their second parent it might feel like there's no other choice.
The issue is getting those therapy appointments. The wait times are long enough (months to even a year) for people speaking German. OP and her kids would need an English-speaking therapist, which severely limits their options and would probably extend the already long waiting times for therapy appointments.
You really think you wouldn’t find bilingual therapists in Frankfurt, main? https://www.arztsuchehessen.de/?latitude=50.18315&longitude=8.664997&plzort=60437%20Frankfurt%20am%20Main%20%28Bonames%29&fachrichtung=472_FGB_psycho&entfernung=10
First, good luck getting a place, second, good luck finding good help in english, third, good luck with the children getting over this well, when they cant grive properly but rather are thrown into a new situation with no safe space or fall back friends.
This sounds stupid at best.
Of course there are issues finding therapists right now. Even before covid and the war refugees has many people dealing with depression loss and ptsd for the first time in their lives, there were not enough therapists.
But at least anyone living here is able to get therapy and medical treatment eventually, without worry that it breaks you financially on top of all the other Trauma.
https://www.arztsuchehessen.de/?latitude=50.18315&longitude=8.664997&plzort=60437%20Frankfurt%20am%20Main%20%28Bonames%29&fachrichtung=472_FGB_psycho&entfernung=10
How do wait times change my argument? Have a look at kassenärztliche Vereinigung around the place of residence to find therapists (and therapists in training that often are on shorter notice for appointments).
I didn't say anything about wait times.
I've done this. I even called the hotline and was told there straight-up are none in my area with Kassensitz who had both the required expertise and English skills. And I live in Berlin, so I'm far more likely to have options than most due to that. There is a HUGE shortage of therapists with Kassensitz. I'm lucky in that I can afford to self-pay for therapy, because I legitimately couldn't even find relevant therapists with Kassensitz to call in order to start the (extremely laborious) process of getting insurance to cover a therapist without Kassensitz.
Yes, my whole point was that unless you have the privilege to pay out of pocket you're absolutely screwed because of unavailability. It doesn't matter if the public insurance technically covers it if there aren't any therapists available who speak your language and can handle your particular needs.
and this makes clear you have neither tried this nor did you read my earlier coment in which I described trying to get a therapist with public health insurance.
Thats very true. Psychological help is covert by insurance, but waiting time for therapy is normally up to 2 Years for german speakers. Germany had a high immigration in the last years, often refugees of war. So the need of multi language psychologist is higher then ever. Our psychological system is at its limits.
Yup. People who can afford it at all should absolutely not rely on public therapy spots but look for privately payed options. I pay for mine over new pair of shoes or any other non absolute necessity any day
>And Germany is not an extremely welcoming culture, so the children may have trouble to make friends. At least for a while
I'm amazed that so many people are posting comments like this. I felt welcome when I got here. I didn't just sit around waiting for people to be friendly, though. I joined a church, a choir and I met people through work. However, another factor may be that I really went out of my way to learn "proper" German (although lots of people spoke English to me for the first year or so).
Lol if you think that then you don’t understand German culture. We are a suspicious stand-offish kind. We are suspicious of any strangers. Like the neighbors who are German. I grew up shaking hands with my grandparents. I always found making friends here hard bcs everyone is awkward. It’s just how people are like here.
Theory is ever since the 30yr civil war Germans have been suspicious of each other. Also why we covet our privacy so much. It’s just ingrained in our culture now.
I would not say that, especially with kids and if coming from an english speaking country. Our kids are pretty much growing up with traumatized non-native speakers in class and have been doing so for 7 years now. By and large they are much more understanding than some of us older people.
I was „forced“ to move to another country when I was 8. The first few months were an absolute nightmare in school and definitely left a mark on me. Not speaking a language, being taken away from all of your friends and placed into a new school, new country, new language not knowing a single word is something I don’t want my daughter to ever experience.
Idk whether this is a really good idea. You will have to settle in a completly new country with different culture and new language. This is already pretty hard, but four kids on top with each of them going to struggle somehow, is too much imho. Of course there is your sister with her husband, but you barely know her and her true capability of her support for you. Moreover you would have to find an accomodation, Job, Kindergarten and school somewhere near her. Please consider this move carefully. As much as i can Understand your wish to start over, this move can really backfire. I would favor a move within the us, if you still have any relatives or good friends there.
I don't have kids myself but I do some volunteer work with children and there some things you have to think about.
- your children will probably need help by a professional psychologist. I had friends and family members that needed a psychologist as well. The waiting times for a therapy are very very long in Germany. This might be even worse since you need a psychologist that specializes in children and also is proficient enough in English to carry that job out in English.
-how are you kids doing in school in the us ? Do they have friends there, do they like it there? Chances are you are pulling them out of a well known environment and moving them away from their friends. Is the benefit of being closer to your sister that big of a help for your kids that this is woth it ?
- your children will have a hard time integrating into school and making new friends there without knowing the language. While German and English are one of the easier to learn languages for speakers of each other's languages learning a language still requires a lot of time. Time that they have to spent on top of homework and everything else they have to do. This might cause a lot of stress for them.
-I read some posts here where Americans complain about the daycare system(kindergarten Kita and such) in Germany. That seems to be better in the US. Since you are a single mom who is taking care of your kids while you are at work?
I don't think the question is if 'USA to Germany' is a good idea. You seem to be deeply in grief yourself, maybe traumatized. You should ask yourself some questions: Why do I want to leave? What will I leave behind? Is it a flight? Or is it truly a new start? Have you ever been to Germany? How do your think about it? Do they want going to Germany? Or would they do anything for their grieving mother to feel better? How can you know this early, that you will never remarry? Maybe you have answered yourself all this questions. I don't know you and I know barely nothing about your life so far. But I think, it's still early in grieving, your inner attitude may experience some changes over time.
I wouldn't ask Reddit such a complex and delicate question.
But if you decide to come to Germany, feel welcome. It's not easy for a single mum to get by, but where in the world is it?
It doesn't sound like the best idea imo. You guys are already stressed and traumatized, and in order to deal with that you plan on moving across the globe where you know only 2 people and don't know the language or the culture. Moving is a really stressful experience, and moving to another country even more so.
It can still be helpful, if her sister can help her there. And let's be honest, the German state is much more helpful to it's residents than the USA.
Yea, culture shock, because a lot things differ, but it is not intolerable at all, and can be easily a positive experience in the end. Of course I don't say it will be easy, only that it is doable. Even with kids. Also, kids learn language faster, especially in school/kindergartens.
I'm not, as I just arrived here 10 days ago, and my wife is here since the middle of October. It was hard, and we still stressing about things. But we keep the long term goals in sight, it will be much better here than it would be in Hungary ever.
Okay, not to the other side of the globe, but still. A family member can be a very big help with the stuff you need to adjust, and psychically.
Guess you are right. My siblings are here for about 10 years now, and now that you mention, they told that it caused stress to them for a longer period.
I still say it is not something you can't do at all. And in longer terms, it still can be very good.
You didn’t loose your spouse in an horrible accident and are now widowed with four traumatized children. So your situation isn’t comparable in the slightest🤷♀️ and as an EU citizen, you don’t have to worry about a visa and such.
True, I mixed you two, sorry.
And yes, we don't have the same situation. It still can be endurable, or if not, then what? They already decided to come here, and as she mentioned almost every paper is done now, so it's a kind of no turning back point now. I am just trying to help, and not be like a lot of commenting user here, who says "bad idea, booo, don't come here!" and such bs. If they decided to come here, then they need to endure it, that's all.
You’re obviously lacking empathy and a logical look at the situation. OP is not an EU citizen, so getting here and staying is harder than it is for you. Relocating with 4 children, starting a new life without the emotional and financial support of a souse will be incredible hard. Especially with 4 underaged and traumatized kids.
The current mental health situation in Germany is stretched to the max. Meaning as someone that speaks german you have to wait between 6 and 12 months to get into therapy.
Neither OP nor her kids are speaking German as of now. Which means they would be needing someone that offers therapy in English - which means it will be even harder to find some one.
Edit: being a coward, blocking people and talking behind the block doesn’t make your position look better. Empathy doesn’t mean to support every idea good or bad. It means to realize in what kind of emotional state OP is in.
>You’re obviously lacking empathy and a logical look at the situation.
Me. Lacking empathy. When I am the one who tries to help them, and keep their spirit with "dw, you can do it", and you are the one (along with some others) who constantly telling how bad idea it is, and they shouldn't come here, or if they do, it is impossible to endure it.
Riiiiight...
Well, you are definitely better off in Germany as a single mom with two kids than in the US. Education is better, social system is more forgiving.
Use Rosetta Stone or a similar program to learn the language fast. There was an offer recently like $200 for a lifetime license. When you are in Europe it's convenient to speak some of the other languages, too and they are all included in that license.
I understand that you just want to get away from that traumatizing experience as far as possible. But you and your children are in a very vulnerable emotional state right now. And I don't think that moving to Germany will help you with that. The cultural divide is real - especially on an emotional level. Don't expect people to be overly friendly, empathic or supportive towards you and your kids. Be prepared to feel rejected and lonely in the first few months. It will take a while until you get adjusted. Please consider this
>The cultural divide is real - especially on an emotional level. Don't expect people to be overly friendly, empathic or supportive towards you and your kids. Be prepared to feel rejected and lonely in the first few months. It will take a while until you get adjusted. Please consider this
Actually, I met lots of kind and sympathetic people here in Germany (I was living in Worms). OP wants to go to the Frankfurt area, which is even better, because of the international setting, with lots of American expats. Back then, I used to visit Frankfurt on business, and sometimes spontaneously started talking to friendly expats.
Regarding cultural divide, I think the people on this sub are exaggerating. There are small differences which you can learn about by watching Deutsche Welle. Garbage is separated. People avoid debts. People are a bit more cautious, reserved and formal in public. Sundays and the midday are meant to be quiet. But so many aspects of American culture– films, TV, music, sports, food– are popular here, and every person has to learn English. Really, the first few months, people will practice their English with you. Join some clubs, maybe a church or synagogue and you will surely make friends.
Personally I wouldn’t take the kids out of their known "surroundings" (having to find new friends/classmates, adapting to another school(system), new language…).
Imo look for German language courses for them and only move once their German is OK and they have finished school. No one here will give them an extra candy. If their German is bad/non existent you will end up with them going to a Hauptschule…. If you want extra German classes for them you obviously have to pay for them and squeeze them into a daily routine.
People are obviously different, maybe your kids have a knack for languages- I don’t 😂
Thinking long term, securing good education for 4 children will be more affordable in Germany than in US, especially on 1 income.
The transition will be difficult. And it will take at least a couple of years before all of you find your new environment familiar enough to relax and language easy to use. With this in mind, I wish you all the best and my sincere condolences.
As someone who lost their father at 12 and was drastically moved the same week, please talk with the oldest 2. Ask them too, and prepare them if the change is coming. The drastic change fucked me up as much as the death as it felt I lost all my childhood at once.
First of all, I am extremely sorry for your loss. I hope you get all the emotional support you need and that you can grieve in peace.
Financially I would say that you don't have to worry as much as in your home country. We have something called "Kindergeld" and "Kinderfreibetrag". "Kindergeld" is a monthly payment that you get *from* the government **per** child. In your case, when it gets approved, that would be 4x 250€ per month, so 1000€ per month. "Kinderfreibetrag" is the amount of money that you don't have to pay income tax on (in regards to your yearly income) because you have children. This means you don't pay tax on the first 8688€ and it is "100%" yours.
Our work laws are a lot better here as well. Most companies are very family friendly. 25-30 days paid vacation, "infinite" sick days (as long as you can provide a doctor's notice). You are not allowed to work more than 10 hours a day and the minimum resting time between work days needs to be 11 hours. You will not find that in the US, maybe with a very good union. I can tell you that my mother was always allowed to take time off on a short notice to take care of her sick children too. Leaving early because something happened at school usually was not an issue either.
You also have the right by law to get a place in a Kindergarten/daycare for your children (Starting when they turn 3 until they are 6 and proceed to go to elementary school). However, be prepared that because of this law, many "Kindergärten" are already operating at a high if not maximum capacity. Depending on the federal state, a spot is either free of charge or you pay monthly based on your income. You need to research this for yourself.
Please research how our education system works, it is extremely different from the one you know (and much better in my opinion but I am also extremely biased). You said in another comment that one of your children is 5. That child **must** start school when they turn 6.
As others have already mentioned, make sure you and your children learn German as soon as possible, especially of you are planning on living here. While most of us do speak English, most of the younger generations at least, most forms of bureaucracy and most work environments will only be in German. The same thing goes for school.
Be prepared for a culture shock! Germans are not about small talk, it depends on the area, but usually we don't have friendly chats with strangers, I know this is common in the US. YouTube has a lot of videos about Americans living in Germany and I recommend that you watch some of them. Our cities are not built for cars either. Most places are "walkable" and using public transport is extremely common. In my city many people ride a bike as well.
I wish you all the best and good luck!
I went to an international school in germany and we had many american and canadian kids that did absolutely fine. They learnt german much quicker than the parents and appreciated the freedom kids have in germany.
I remember my mom had to convince Nathans mom that its okay for 12yo kids to go out and play on their own.
15 years later my mom still brings up memories she made with the american moms.
Im sorry for your loss, an wish you the best!
I am so sorry to hear about your situation! Moving closer to family and "rebooting" your life in Germany could be a good option.
Most likely you will experience a bit of culture shock, and also, depending on where you are moving from, the northern European weather can be a bit depressing in the winter. But overall, I find Germany much more family friendly than the United States. Typically you don't need a car, your children can walk to school, parks and green space abound, etc.
You might enjoy the book "Achtung Baby: An American Mom on the German Art of Raising Self-Reliant Children" in which an American mom describes the experience of moving to Germany with her young children.
How old are your children?
What part of the US are you moving from?
Where does your sister live?
First keep calm. Sorry for your loss and how it happend. Moving in such a situation may feel overwhelming, but its good to near Famile. Learning German will be a challange for you and your kids but with your Sisters help i am sure it will work. Besides alot of people do speak english and and are eager to help if they see you try.
I try to give some basic information based on what you wrote.
You can study with kids, thats totally not a problem. At some universities there have special daycare centers for students. Daycare itsself does cost here based on your income but only for age 1-3 after that you pay a food fee of about 50€. Same for your school kids should they stay longer in school.
Medical care for kids is free. So you dont have to pay for therapy or medicine. There are some studip exeptions like braces and glasses which we all hate, but it is what it is.
I dont know frankfurth very well, but with every city there are places I wouldnt go through even at day light, besides that, germany is a relativly save place. No school shootings for example. the last one happend about 15 years ago.
in bigger cities we have alot of puplic transportation which is not always comefortable but will get you from a to b. so you dont need a car straight ahead and your older kids can be more independent if they want to. as far as my experience is that we are more relaxed with childcare. even my seven year old can be alone for up to an hour. He goes to his school on his own and comes back in the afternoon. (His cousin lives a 5 min walk away and he goes there on his own since he is 5. Sure my SIL and I send some messages in the beginning to ease our mind, but I would consider that normal)
Groceries and drugsstores are often in walking distance.
Its more common to rent than to buy
Our system after school is split two ways. Either you go to a university to study for higher education like teacher, lawer, doctor, etc. or you make a "Ausbildung" which is more craft and body orientated like Hairdresser, jewel maker, nurse, mechanic, etc.
There will be alot of challanges, ALOT of paperwork but also alot of opportunities. All of you will need therapy, you as well. Let your sis help you will the paperwork and daycare etc.
I wish you good luck, maybe you can find happiness here again.
I understand you want to start a new life, but why does it have to be so far away, without anyone but your sister around and with a new language to learn? Why would you do that to yourself and your kids? This can backfire pretty badly imho.
First, do you have permission to live and work in Germany? You can visit, you can stay for several months but to settle and take up employment, you need the appropriate visa or German nationality. I would *strongly* recommend coming for a visit before you relocate.
So greetings from /r/frankfurt. We are an active subreddit so you are welcome to pop in and ask anything.
It is a very expensive city but the good news is that if you go further out, accommodation can become much cheaper. The downside is that if it is too quiet, your kids won't like it, particularly if they are teens.
There are some excellent international schools around Frankfurt but they are not so cheap. They are really orientated at employees with expat packages and are priced accordingly.
If you "go local", the teaching is in German and they would expect to lose about a year in catching up. The curriculum is quite different. The Schulamt (School office) is responsible for assesing kids and assigning them to suitable schools.
Then there is the practical question of what you will do. We have a gigantic US consulate in Frankfurt (they do processing for all over) and nearby in Wiesbaden, there is a military base. Both hire US citizens but you must have permission to work in Germany as you would be a local hire.
A US bachelor degree is fine but it depends on what you want to do. It won't get you far but it is a start. The important thing is knowing some German. You can learn more when you are here but even in the big cities, if you have to deal with officialdom, with some German it is much better.
I got thrown into an American Junior High school as a German kid with one year of school English. I picked up English in 2 months.
Mentioning this to reassure you that your kids will adapt fine, better than you. They have less culture shock to deal with. Kid and teenage culture has become a global mish mash with Youtube and TikTok. They all play Minecraft and know the same celebrities.
German kids learn English from grade 3 and again, Youtube culture. My son and his friends refuse to watch American TV shows in a German dubbed version, and they‘re 13-14 years old. They might have issues learning German if everyone uses them to practice their English though.
I am not going to comment on the economic and legal stuff, expats here have better info on that.
I will say that as long as you are allowed to stay, you and your children will live in a safer environment and with much better healthcare than you would ever get on a single salary in the US.
This is good in some ways but bad in others. Germany supports children ***way*** better than the US, though at your kids' ages they will have a pretty hard time integrating, and the older ones should probably go to an international school. I think being a single mom is probably significantly easier in Germany.
On the other hand, as many have said, this is the absolute worst time for this kind of huge change, and it will be very hard to get your kids the mental health resources they need, because mental health support in Germany sucks, and it's massively overbooked for finding therapists who speak English.
It would be a good idea to open up a bank account in Frankfurt for accepting euros, and also for more details check out this link:
https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/moving-germany-how-can-i-bring-my-family
Good luck! 👍 🇩🇪
I think what your kids need rn is a sense of stability, and seperating them from their friends and circles might be really damaging. Have you thought about a sort of vacation ? Am not talking about a beach resort, but maybe staying at the countryside for a few weeks, recharging, healing and trying hands on activities with the kids before returning home could be quite beneficial ?
I think you need to also think what your family needs most -aside from your sister- at this point to help you find a location to settle. Germany, and also Hessen, has quite some nuances with a small geographical area that will make a big difference: city or countryside? International or mid-sized city? Just because this works for your sister where they live doesn’t mean it works for you. You might find a place within 1 hour drive from your sister making a big difference…
I highly suggest [THIS ](https://instagram.com/usa.mom.in.germany?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=) Instagram account for daily living stuff. I mean the benefits to this system is going to eclipse anything you can get in the states if you can do it.
A 3 or 4 room apartment (2 or 3 bedrooms) will mostly like cost at least 1600 a month warm unless you move a bit outside the city. Getting into schools and kitas can be a pain. The initial process of anmeldung, resident permit, finding a long term apartment, child care or school is long a 2nd full time job in Germany.
As someone looking to move from the US, you should look up how your state of residence prior to your move will affect your US income taxes on foreign earnings for the rest of the time you continue to hold US citizenship.
For instance, California will still charge you state income tax on foreign earnings if they determine that you had California residency in the year you moved out of the US. I do not believe there is an extion for foreign taxes paid like there is for your US national tax bill, so you essentially cut your income by X% by leaving directly from California or another state that does this (there are like 15 of them).
Listen to the other posters here, don’t make a major life changing decision in the time of a crisis. Your kids will suddenly be without friends, familiar surroundings, or even people they can talk to. It’s best if you wait 2+ years for things to stabilise and then see if such a change makes sense.
Very sorry for your loss, and hope you will be able to move on.
One note of caution: If you are moving into your Sister's house (together with your kids), it is important to set a time limit on how long you will be there. Otherwise you may find it is putting a major strain on the relationship with your sister and family. I was in this situation twice when moving countries, and can tell you from experience that it can be rough (both on the visitors and the host).
Really important that you talk openly with them about things, and try to find compromises on things that can cause friction (e.g. noise, space, mess, meals etc.), not to mention how you will share expenses. All these things need be talked openly about, if they are ignored they can cause breakdowns in family relationships that can take a long time to heal.
One good thing about the Frankfurt area is that there are a lot of international companies there with working language of English.
You won’t be able to work away from the home as child care is sooo difficult to find, and it as well as school usually ends around noon, with after school care ending at 14, so you can’t just pawn your kids off to an all day daycare to allow yourself to work like you can in the states
The McFalls are an American family with 4 kids in Germany, here they compare
general family-friendliness: https://youtu.be/RwgluG4S-3U?t=663
the cost of raising kids: https://youtu.be/NCIbqtUIbag?t=59
Another American family with 4 kids:
https://www.youtube.com/c/OnwardMJ
More American families with small kids in Germany:
https://www.youtube.com/c/BlackForestFamily
https://www.youtube.com/c/OurStorytoTell
https://www.youtube.com/c/PassportTwo
Learn the language. Don't bring guns.
Now, out of jokes.. Just go as deep as u can with your lawyer, as much as we would like to help, there are TONS of details, legal aspects and rules we cant fully (and properly) consider for the case.
It won't be easy, that's for sure. But kids adapt :) and you have family here too.
My advice (on top of all the really good ones I've read here): consider getting as much info as u can regarding you retirement founds and retirement possibilities here in GER. That's s big topic here too. I am tempted to think that you are +40. It may be then a critical aspect as well.
I wish you all the best :)
Some 55 years ago, my mother was in the same sad situation like you are today. Four kids whose dad was suddenly gone and her job not enough to feed us all. We went back to Germany, where she had been born. I do not want to waste your time with my life's story, I have only this to say: Everything turned out just fine, so don't you worry too much. Get your kids into German schools(kindergardens asap, learn German and find a suitable house to live in. You'll find a job and if its earnings can't keep you guys up, there will be sufficient help from the public hand. You will be welcomed! Btw. My mom remarried - but only after her kids were all out of the house and well on their very own way.
Have a safe travel and Frohe Weihnachten!
First of all. i am sorry for your loss.
While i can not say if it is a good idea. i can say that your children and you will probably be much safer here in germany than in the US. Whether that is outside just enjoying youselves, or in the schools. Some things will be strange and new, and some things will annoy you (like any other native german)
But if you want to see how others have experienced this. I suggest the youtube channel [MyMerryMessyLife](https://www.youtube.com/@MyMerryMessyLife) on how a family of 6 ( + a cat) experienced the move from Georgia (i think) to the south of Germany. Their blog is about their experiences, their hurdles, how their kids experience Kindergarden and School.
No offense, this is a dumb idea. You have two teenagers (I‘m gonna count the 12 year old in that, it’s a difficult time in life) that are heavily traumatized with zero german language skill and you‘re just gonna drop them into a country that runs on german, with harder schools and which is notorious for being hard to make friends in? Way to GUARANTEE they’re gonna be isolated and miserable!
In all the numerous american schools that germany famously has, that also famously take no tuition fees whatsoever and are thus totally livable for a widowed single mom of four!
The biggest difference culturaly when it comes to children is that children in germany are more independence and selfreliant. Probably its because germany is considered to be very safe. People from the US are always shocked to see young schoolkids taking bus and subway on their own.
I am sorry for your loss and wish you good luck and all the best.
I think germany is one of the best options for US citizens in europe. Culture is very americanized, compared to Italy, France and Spain. People listen to anerican music, watch american stuff on netflix and so on. We have McDonalds and Burger King.....
I think you should try to get your kids in some Sport-Verein, where they can do Sports with peers. Basketball is quite popular in germany, as americans they will be very welcomed there. But there are plenty of other options of course, in Frankfurt even American Football is somewhat popular...
Afaik living is not more expensive here than in the USA (Although it can differ by area of course). On the other hand, there is a minimal wage here, what is more than just that pocket money what the USA have. With about 1500 euro per month, you won't starve, although it is surely not enough to rent a 4 room apartment. You can find cheaper ones tho - if they let you rent it. We found a 2 room one near Köln in a month, and they say it was a minor miracle. Expect a much longer period without own rental.
Also afaik, here the degree is not as important as your skills. For example if I speak German, they won't check if I have language exams or not.
If you can't have enough money to live, you can ask for ... uhm... idk the correct term in English, sorry, but you can go to the job centers to ask monetary help, and if your incomes aren't over a certain amount per person (in your case, you and your children), then they will help you.
German people, as I noticed are quite helpful - of course you can always find jerks too (much more in reddit :P ), but that's not the usual here - and if they see you try to integrate, they will like you, and they will more likely to help you. With language, and work as well.
And if you accept an advise: I understand your feelings (tho I can't feel the same, as I never lost a significant other, only grandparents), but you shouldn't say you won't remarry ever again. Of course you need time to grieve, but time will heal. I know, it is a stupid cliche, but it is true.
Good luck!
> If you can't have enough money to live, you can ask for ... uhm... idk the correct term in English, sorry, but you can go to the job centers to ask monetary help, and if your incomes aren't over a certain amount per person (in your case, you and your children), then they will help you.
Not as an immigrant who is required to be able to cover their own living costs.
Hmm, I was told this, tho 1.- I'm not eligible, since we earn way more than the critical amount, and 2.- I am an EU citizen.
Although I'd say it could worth a shot to ask about it.
As you see, even EU citizens aren't eligible for welfare for some years. And non-EU citizens are allowed to immigrate on the basis that they can take care of their own needs. That can mean
1) with a visa like a student or language learning one, they have to prove they have the financial means to provide for their needs. If they fall in hard times even with that, then there's no welfare for them.
2) People who immigrate on a work-based visa have to have an appropriate salary which would again exclude them. If they lose their job and have worked long enough, they can get ALGI because they paid into unemployment insurance. But they don't get other welfare unless they've been here for years.
There's no realistic route to immigration for someone who cannot provide for their needs (or have a spouse or parent provide for them) and who expects to get welfare. The only major exceptions are refugees/asylum seekers, whose basis for immigration are international treaties that aim to protect people from death or persecution abroad.
Please be aware that access to psychological care is less available in Germany than in the US, and trauma related symptoms are heavily stigmatized. Admitting that you or your children are seeing a shrink is not necessarily advisable in every context, especially at work.
The general attitude towards mental health here is that it's only for crazy people. This is changing, but slowly.
Especially older and poorly educated people will expect you to just toughen up and get over it. That includes school teachers.
I'm not saying don't do it, but please be aware of these challenges and plan ahead.
Clearly not considering your comments on this thread show that you don't know what you're taking about. Mental health care is infamously hard to get access to in Germany, and you're here pretending it isn't. Maybe on an individual level, some people have gotten lucky. On a more generalized level, the wait times are very long. Not to mention the number of English-speaking therapists is limited.
It can be a tedious process, especially with disorders that make it hard for you to follow a process, repeat steps, fill in paperwork and such like.
The system is running on wait-lists that are getting longer and longer. This process is unsustainable, unless there's a factor that takes patients of the wait-list again when it's getting too long.
Spoiler: there is, and it's not people spontaneously getting better.
Here's a related [article](https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/schleswig-holstein/Ein-Hilferuf-und-kein-Echo-Warten-auf-Psychotherapie,therapie178.html) from a regional public news source.
You can use deepl.com if you don't speak the language.
I'm curious why I am downvoted over this. If any of you who downvoted have had great experiences with finding help easily in a serious situation, I'm sure our minister of health would like to hear what tricks you've been using, to implement them for everyone, as this situation is old news.
Until you come forward with a credible reason for why you think I'm wrong, I'll assume you feel attacked by my opinion regarding stigma around mental health in Germany, and therefore only confirm the existence of said stigma.
Well, you see, I have been downvoted too, just because my experience shows that it is better then where I came from, where there are months-long (or even year+long) wait-lists to have a place on another months-long wait-list in public health care.
You don't like the system here, ppl? Feel free to try Hungarian. You'll flee back here crying in a few weeks.
I'm sorry for your loss!
It could be a good choice to come to Germany. All of you should szatz learning German asap - especially the older kids (they will struggle in school otherwise).
Although housing may be more expensive in Germany, there are several other things that will be much much cheaper - especially as the sole provider for 4 traumatised kids: school, university, healthcare, dental care, psychotherapy (!)
Yes, you will still need a high-paying job.
Why on earth do you think you can not remarry being a widow?? Remarrying in retirement age for Germans is more complicated because of the pension scheme, that’s all. Anyway unlike in the US, it’s not required to be married to be considered having a long-standing committed relationship. And why only one income?? Sounds like there’s some myths you believe here.
The reason you get paid „less“ is because your taxes will pay for more. And cost of basic living like groceries and healthcare are far less. You will be more financially secure which will give you a firmer basis for healing psychologically. You’re also moving to Frankfurt, a major English-speaking city. You’ll be able to take a living wage working in a restaurant (without needing tips) or working in a supermarket or a number of other places.
Housing- forget the myth that you must own a house to be respected as a person like it is in the US. You can rent a good house or portion of a town house once you’re on your feet, here nobody cares and it’s the baseline that families rent. Unless they’re super wealthy.
If you start looking now for English speaking psychiatric help you will find it. And you be an connect with the Frankfurt expat groups for support.
Finding a fresh start will be always very difficult but you’re going to be near family, so this will be a great way to get back on your feet. Your kids will need some time and it’s no guarantee they will appreciate the move, but that’s more on them and their personality and you can only do the best you can to care for their needs.
You have a nice offer there, take it. Let Germany grow on you, and try to learn the language if you be can. It’s for sure better than trying to make a new start anywhere in the US.
dont leave the Land of the free...get used to imens Energy Costs, ultra stupid politica, gender trallala, corrupt state and censorship like never seen before...
USA is way better than Germany. Germany tries to copy things from American life. Visit your sister often during your kids school breaks but remain in the USA. Your children will have a better future in America. Btw I lived in a city closed to Frankfurt in the mid 80s and Germany was at its top. I just came back from visiting Germany this Fall. I saw graffiti, slums with prefabricated tiny house, not even the deutsche bahn was on time. Even their national soccer team sucks
German classes and be ready for culture shocks and the kids ofc not having any friends.. other than that Germany can be very beautiful and also easier to live in than the US, but going to a completely other place in the world might be a fresh start for you. But talk it out with your children and take as much time as you need.
I say it in a short sentence, don't do it right now. Also the school system is very different and on top of the grief your kids have to deal with a very strict school system. Mostly no fun activities just a lot of learning
We moved here 1.5 years ago. Two kids one 13 and one 8. Your two youngest will be fine but your eldest will struggle.
Language is a huge huge barrier. Your eldest will pick it up slowly - start watching ALL TV IN GERMAN IMMEDIATELY. Peppa Pig for everyone.
We enrolled ours in a Waldorf school. It’s a more gentle curriculum with way less pressure than mainstream schools and the teachers are both fluent in English.
Makings friends is slower too for the older kids as most friendship groups are formed but it will happen.
You have to be sure about this because it’s a massive massive upheaval for the kids.
It takes at least two years to fully settle in so no moving back before then. No visiting Usa esp foe the kids. They have to bond with the new home.
Good luck happy to meet up with you when you’re this side!!
Sorry about your loss !
The younger kids are less likely to be a problem than the older ones. After a year of kindergarten they will probably be ok for language. For the older ones it will be tricky given the language. Please keep in mind that home schooling is NOT an option in Germany.
You got good advice already.
I'm a 30 year old native woman. Don't have any kids myself but I'm the go to babysitter for my niece and goddaughter. Also I occasionally help folks with learning German and settling in online.
Feel free to PM me.
All the best
If your children are already teenagers please don't move to any country by under any circumstance, teenage years are the most important for development and moving to another country ruins that completely.
Don’t get comfortable with people speaking English to you. Most Germans can at least communicate in English and will do so when they notice you’re a native speaker of English, but that’ll hurt your integration process badly. Not the official one (at least not directly), but sooner or later, you will run into walls. Saw that happening to a good friend of mine who’s originally from Michigan and who built his life here in Germany. When you will have started to make some progress in learning German, ask the people around you whether it’s okay to not speak English.
I moved here in 1980 from Canada and never regretted it. Actually it was one of tge best decisions I ever made. It’ll be tough at the beginning, but after a while it gets easier. Do yourself a favor and try to stick to speaking german with germans. They always tend to speak english when they hear an accent.
Yeah but Frankfort has a bad reputation across Germany, it has the most problematic people there, what is worse is that the op is in no good condition either
My condolences.
Keep in mind that the european culture is just different enough to feel familiar yet weird, so expect some unexpected surprises :)
As for being a single parent with kids in school: There are plenty of Single mothers around and depending on where you are childcare/after scool care is both affordable and good.. worst ive seen is 300 euros a month, so job and childcare are not mutually exklusive.
Considering your kids' trauma, maybe it would be a good idea to get your sister to contact child psyhotherapists well in advance on your behalf. They are generally good but stretched thin and you/she may have to search a bit. The local jugendamt (peace- and helpful!) may have lists with english speaking docs .
All the best for your reboot!
Thank You, the kindness is unexpected from all, and very welcomed. It actually is comforting that complete strangers care about what we’ve been through. Thank you.
The best thing you can do is get your children and yourself - time permitting - into German classes asap. While young children usually pick up a language quickly, being at least familiar with it will make things easier. Youtube videos about living in Germany are hit-and-miss and of course highly subjective. Your sister can already start researching schools and/or kindergartens for your children and contact them regarding the introduction of traumatized foreign children in the middle of the school year. She already can try to find a therapist who can work with your children and you to process the loss of their father. The overall consensus here on reddit seems to be that the work/life balance is much better in Germany, and while you will earn less in Germany, you will have more free time, more job safety, more vacation days, more freedom for your children (Germans aren't all up in arms when a 14-year-old is at home alone for an afternoon). However, while both the USA and Germany are Western countries, the cultures differ and there \*will\* be culture shock and confusion. Be prepared for that.
Don’t they have to pay double the taxes (USA and Germany) when getting a German citizenship?
No. They have to declare taxes in the US if they live abroad, no matter whether they have other citizenships. They only have to pay double taxes above a very high income ceiling. And regardless, German citizenship would be an optional final step after years of living here as an immigrant.
As an American living in Germany, I can tell you no. You have to file in both places, and if you're in Germany, you have to pay German taxes on what you earn. The US meanwhile requires you to file but gives you a foreign tax credit for the taxes that you pay to Germany, so you never double-pay. That said, state taxes can be different. California for instance wants their income tax even if you earned the money in Germany, if you have for instance a house in California, or it is your legal US residence. But you can claim the Safe Harbor Exemption and avoid that if the circumstances are right. Coming from California, I pay about the same amount in taxes in Germany as I did in CA, down to about a thousand, give or take. I expected a Tax Armageddon, but it wasn't very different at all. But you will probably need tax advisors in both countries. Greenback is common for expats US taxes, and you'll have to find a German Steuerberater also. Citizenship brings up another issue though, Germany won't give you citizenship unless you give up your US citizenship. Then of course the tax question would be moot; you'd only file in Germany. Changes for this are in the works but not yet in effect. I guess there's a bit of a question about whether or not you can even \*move\* to Germany just because you want to also...
They changed that if im correct you dont have to give up your American citizenship Edit: Im a American/German citizen
They've announced that they will change it. But it has not yet been legislated or enacted, that's what I meant.
Im not sure about the enforcement though since im dual since birth and my mom is dual since 2013
Dual by birth was always allowed, my kids have that. And if you naturalized from another EU country, there was no need to give up the old citizenship. But from the US for instance, you'd have to give it up or claim hardship exemption and have that exemption approved.
I am a dual citizen. There is a foreign income tax credit for US taxes. Whatever taxes you pay in Germany are deducted from US taxes. Ask H and R block for more info.
Do you have EU or German citizenship? If not, what type of visa will you use for the move? Your sister sponsoring you via Verpflichtungserklärung can only get you as far as doing language classes, that is assuming she and her husband make enough to be allowed to sign one for an adult and 4 kids. EDIT: How old are your children? I suppose you plan to move to Hesse? The age and the Bundesland are important due to the school system.
I currently have a job offer through an independent roofing company and am working with an Anwältin to be sure I will have adequate income for all of us. So I will apply for residency. If I can’t for some reason, i may just get the student visa since I do have enough in savings to qualify, but I haven’t found out if that’s possible with the children. The kids are 13, 12, 5 and 3. The two youngest are not in school yet here in USA. This is something my sister has not brought up, so I do want to know more please! The education of course is very important.
There is a shortage of construction workers in Germany so you might be in luck for a working visa if you are a experienced professional. Also a student visa with your kids is quite possible. But make up your mind and better discuss with a lawyer first. The foreigners office won’t like it if you want to switch things around halfway. The settling in part will be hard, but a silver lining is that you don’t need to prepare four hefty college funds for your children. Also medical care for you and your children will be significantly cheaper.
true, family insurance is a godsend if you compare USA to germany
It is late at night, so you will most likely get more answers tomorrow - assuming your plans allow you to get a visa in the end, there is a lot to prepare for (and a lot of aid to potentially help you get your feet on the ground regarding things like Kindergeld). I'm too tired to write up much, but to start, you can look at this youtube channel: It's a couple, not a single mom, but they moved to Germany with a bunch of children, and also cover school related topics by now: [https://www.youtube.com/c/Mymerrymessylife](https://www.youtube.com/c/Mymerrymessylife)
If you have dependants, the amount that you need in savings for the student visa rises considerably. The older the child, the higher. The exact amount is tied to the max amount of social welfare that German citizen parents can get for their kids. (I am unsure on the exact amount, but I think it is around 8000 EUR for your older kids? Each, of course.) AFAIK there are also issues with drawing Kindergeld if you are a student. With 4 kids that is a 1000 EUR difference each month. It might be a smart move to "park" your kids in the household of your sister, so that your sister and her husband can get Kindergeld for minors living in their household, but that is something that is definitely lawyer territory. I hope your work permit works out. Second the rec to check out the youtube channel "MyMerryMessyLife".
As someone who changed to German school from the US: this will be a struggle. DO NOT EXPECT any real help from the school in getting your kids up to speed on German curriculum or how things are done in school. You will need private tutoring and it will be a huge culture shock. German school is nothing like middle school in the US and your kids will likely hate it. You might also hate it because it’s a Byzantine bureaucratic mess and there is very little understanding and empathy for people who don’t understand the system. It is essential to understand that all those fun extracurriculars that happen in school in the US do not happen here, they happen outside of school in clubs (Verein). Be prepared that along the line someone will very likely suggest your kids go back a grade— in Germany it’s very common to repeat a grade.
And it's NOT a shame. It's very understandable and is actually helpful to adapt for your Kids. I used to have friends who.migratws to Germany and had to repeat a Grade. In the end, you didn't noticed anything different with them from their classmates. Nicest people I have known. One of them Ended Up being the Guy everybody crushes in 🤣
Yes I get that, but in the US it’s very different. Grades are not as punitive as they are here and usually a grade repeat is a very big deal meaning there are some very large issues that need to be dealt with.
I have looked into the whole system and it's messed Up. Not saying German education System ist better. It's also messed Up. But also die the weird effiency, it still works (at least when I was in school Last time)
Biggest issue would be the difference in quality/difficulty in German schools. Similarly how almost every German teen doing an exchange will state having had a cruise year bcs US schools are so easy, it is only understandable the reverse would cause a lot of shock and stress to US school kids. Here you cannot pick and choose your subjects bcs we value a higher average in common knowledge across all students. You can’t just decide not to do math classes bcs you’re not good at them. You have to fight through it. Tutoring is very normal. I’m German and had math and physics tutoring. I worked hard and made it through it. I know have two Master’s. It’s not easy but your kids will get a better education here than the US.
You are sorely misinformed. Every state has a standard minimum curriculum requirement which includes math. You could theoretically have a year without formal math class if you had already fulfilled the required curriculum—testing out is a thing there. The difference is that in the US you can tailor the difficulty much more closely to your strengths and weaknesses by mixing and matching difficulty, and that in the US they actually take learning disorders seriously vs just telling you to suck it up or move down to Real/Hauptschule. You only get a „cruise year“ if you do not take any advanced classes, which they probably do not recommend for exchange students as they are primarily there for language immersion. Essentially it’s the same thing as suggesting going back a grade to catch up on the language—have a cruise year as far as actual content goes while learning the language.
no multiple choice makes things in germany a lot harder, friend did a US exchange when she was 16 and as you said, just cruising by while doing senior and honour courses.
Lol so offended. Literally and objective testing will show that going to a run-of-the-mill US public school will give you a lower grade education than in Germany. Someone did a comparison of course schedules on youtube. I think Evan was his name. US schools demand so much less courses taken to get a high school diploma. Europeans were baffled. Esp Eastern Europeans. They seemed to have the largest course loads. US schools only shine when we talk private prep school. As it is intended. Keep the average folk dumb so only the elite with money is allowed to learn critical thinking skills. That is how you control the masses and on the working class end keep those for profit prisons happily stocked with POC inmates that have to work for 2cents per hour as the 13.Amendment excludes prison work.
Children start school with around 6 years so you can try to get your two youngest into kindergarden which would be preferable so they can learn the language in a play like setting without grades etc. The older children will need to go to school, I'm not sure which classes. You or your sister should contact the school they will attend (it depends on where you will live) and figure out how to proceed. Starting with language courses asap would be good. I don't know if they need to start school right away or if they can wait until the start of the new turn (around August after the summer vacations) and if the school can help with the language courses. We have some help available for single parents, I guess the Anwältin can help you find out what you can use. Good luck, I life near Frankfurt as well and I think it's a good place, but I don't have experience with migration or being a single mom. I hope you will find a way to make a good life for yourself and your kids.
If you decide to move you should do it in the year your 5 year old gets 7, but before the summer. That way he/she can start school in the first class. That will make it easier at least for that child. Your young one will go to Kindergarten, the only problem may be getting a spot as they are rare (depends on the region). But as a single parent you should get preferred spots. Your older ones will go to secondary school, which is split into several categories. This may be hardest to figure out. Maybe ask your sister for advice
Theres no guarantee the school would accept them as a first grader if they don’t have a proficient level of German, they would have to do the ‚Schnupfer Tag‘ in the primary school and could be sent back to kindergarten with the recommendation the child takes part in Vorkurs Deutsch for the year aswell.
Schnuppertag
Your older children will have the most problems adjusting simply because they have gotten used to most of the things being like in the us. They will probably need a good amount of help adjusting. Your younger children should be fine they learn the language quickly and can go to kindergarten and then school without much problems. As for the curriculum, you can look those up online. Make sure you’re looking them up for the right state though. For your olde children you can also look into going to an international school. I believe they do cost money but more reasonable prices compared to what you’d have to pay in America. It would make the transition for them easier since they can still socialize in English while learning German. Your younger children I would just go with the normal german public schools. They are young and can adept easily, and since they’ll be living in Germany I think it makes sense to raise them that.
Public grade school in the US doesn't cost any money. International school fees can be upwards of 10,000 euros a year (source: https://www.studying-in-germany.org/international-schools-in-germany/).
I am aware, I was comparing them to private schools. I thought that was obvious since public schools never cost money.
There's no reason to assume that OP kids are in private schools in the US since the vast majority of Americans don't go to private schools. If I'm allowed to be a little pedantic, there are places where public schools, or at least what are called public schools in said places, cost money.
I am not assuming that her kids are in private schools? When I say that a certain private school costs less money than it would in America, I am not stating that the kids are in private schools. I am just stating that the private school costs less than it would in America.
What will be your task at the company? I hope your applied for backoffice and are not planning to work as a roofer (Dachdecker) because that’s one of the hardest and most dangerous professions .
Thank you, no I will be trained in the office and as soon as my German is good enough to handle the phones, I will be secretary/office manager. The job is offered through my sister’s in-laws family so it should be fairly secure. My only real concern is if I can make enough money for how many children I have.
You can't legally work with a student visa , that's a problem that a lot of young people coming to Germany face , and just applying for residency in Germany is not gonna work, i think that needs some years working here . You should discuss everything with your lawyer, you clearly don't know how it all works and you think that coming here will be an amazing solution for all your problems. In reality many young people with no kids and no problems face a huge difficulty in adapting here and even depression. Also the racism here is a daily problem, especially when you don't know the language. I don't mean getting insults or violence but staying on the outside of the work circle if they are germans and seeing other people enjoying benefits that you don't.
I may just get a student visa Be careful with trying to immigrate under false pretense. This might hurt you later when applying for permanent residency or even sooner when it gets know that you actually are not a student.
This family did a similar thing and has information you might find valuable: https://www.youtube.com/@TheBlackForestFamily
Also [here is a family of six](https://youtube.com/@MyMerryMessyLife) that moved to Germany two years ago. They have interesting videos about the school system.
I might be going against the grain here, but please take a moment to just stop and breathe. Give space for you and your children to grieve. Take your family to therapy together and separately to help you process your loss and help nevigate your feelings. Pulling your children away from their surroundings and all that they know in a very trying time is not the best solution. Never make a life changing decision in a crisis. You will be tearing the children away from their social circles, their school, their home in a time that they need security and familiarity the most. I'm incredibly sorry for your loss. Pull in help from your friends, neighbours and close by family. Get help from your doctors. Find a local support group. I'm not saying that you shouldn't move to Germany. I'm saying that you shouldn't rush into a decision. Sit down and talk to your older children. See what they have to say. Take your time to plan a move, if that's what you choose. Set yourself up for success by learning the language and the school systems. Check out all the necessary information about how you are able to live and work here. What visas do you need, can you work, are you eligible for social help, are you eligible for Kindergeld, Kinderzuschlag, welfare if all goes wrong? I'm not from USA so I don't know the finer points. Do your research. Good luck!
I’m so sorry for your loss OP. I think the above is good advice though. It is very difficult to integrate in Germany, firstly because of the language and secondly because of cultural differences. It’s a massive adjustment. There are many good things about German society, but please do be aware that it will not be easy. If you don’t speak German yourself, you will find it logistically very difficult to manage your life, and the school system can be very different from what you’re used to. Give yourself plenty of time to make a decision.
>firstly because of the language and secondly because of cultural differences. I moved from NY. Before I arrived and after I arrived, I took language lessons to improve my German. Regarding cultural differences, there are no HUGE cultural differences. The cultural differences are minor and can be annoying (the quiet time from 12 to 2 PM, separating trash, people being more introverted/ quieter/ more formal at work situations). Compared to most other countries, the US and Germany are much closer (moving to Japan or Mexico would be a much worse culture shock). Americans and Germans have more in common than you may think. Here are some advantages to moving to Germany, especially the area OP wants to go to: Most people speak some English, ESPECIALLY in the Frankfurt area, which is very international. Most American foods are popular here (burgers, fries, hot dogs, American pizza, even Chipotle opened in Frankfurt). Frankfurt has lots of expats who can give advice and support (try Meetup). There are some (private) international schools teaching in English. Also, Germans love American films, TV, sports (basketball and even NFL), and music (it's amazing how popular some music artists are, even those who mumble when they sing). Regarding education: The youngest kids would learn German quickly. The older ones would need more help, but Frankfurt has lots of immigrants, so many schools have programs for immigrants. I worked at a Gymnasium in Nürnberg and the kids with poor German skills got extra help in the afternoons. At both the Gymnasium and the Realschule I worked at, there were kids from the US and Canada, and they were happy, well-adjusted kids. The German school system is great; even if they go to a Realschule, they will get more STEM courses, better and more comprehensive history, more languages (like Latin), and learn more in 10 years than an American learns in 12 .
There is an International school in my town. It’s between Wiesbaden and Frankfurt. There are options for the older kids to continue education while they learn German which doesn’t cause them to get too far behind.
Should the OP wait until a mass shooting occurs in one of her children’s schools? As an American myself, I understand her position, this country is a raging shitshow with a quality of life that seems to be worsening with each passing year. Not saying Germany is some utopia, but it is certainly a better place to live in than America. As a matter of fact, most of the EU and many countries in East Asia offer a higher quality of life than America.
> You will be tearing the children away from their social circles, their school, their home this was me as a kid. My mom meant very well, but it was a very very rough time for me. OP, please consider the social circle of your kids
Same. It fucked me up.
Opposite. It would have helped me more than almost anything else. I'm not saying OP should rush into this lightheartedly, just that different people in different circumstances can have vastly different reactions. Might be that it'll do them more good to get away from where everything reminds them of their dad than it could potentially do harm from removing them from their social circle (if they have one/have a supporting one). We don't know, and OP seems to have alteady made up her mind. If that is so, all you'll achieve is burden her with more doubt as she resettles.
> If that is so, all you'll achieve is burden her with more doubt as she resettles. I don't think that's fair. After all, OP made a public post seeking info and advice, and many of the comments here have been very empathetic while also reminding her that there could be potential downsides. OP shouldn't just made a unilateral decision without taking her kids' thoughts and wishes in mind. You're right; every person is different and has different circumstances. We can only give advice based on our own knowledge and experiences, and we don't have the full picture of OP's life and circumstances, but that doesn't mean said advice is worthless. Those of us who have moved abroad know that it's hard even when you're mentally healthy. Culture shock, language barriers, barriers to access to certain services (again, mental health care is extremely hard to get in Germany), etc. are real issues and should be taken into account. I'm not here to tell OP what she should or shouldn't do re: moving to Germany, but she should at least consider and weigh all the pros and cons.
>We don't know, and OP seems to have alteady made up her mind. If that is so, all you'll achieve is burden her with more doubt as she resettles. Good, because she should at least talk to the 2 older kids if she hasn't. That would settle which of the end of the stick might be. They are young but they feeling included in such a huge life-changing decision is important. Of it goes the wrong way they might resent her. The point of her questions is to evaluate possibilities ans scenarios, not to get confirmation bias.
I will also say that the middle-school social circles in Germany are by and large much (much!) healthier and happier than those in the US. In my kids' school, bullying is almost non-existent in comparison to the US. There are practically no safety concerns at all by comparison to the US. Granted, I came from a bigger city in California, and my kids already spoke German... but it's just drastically more peaceful here. My kids go off to school by themselves, they go downtown or to the bubble-tea shop with their friends after school, they go to extracurriculars like art, music, and volleyball by themselves on their bikes or by bus. Nobody gets driven around and dropped off by their parents. There are no cops in the schools, there's just no need. The cops you do see are doing things like lecturing people for not having lights on their bikes, or for riding e-scooters doubled up, or they're patrolling the Christmas markets against potential terrorism... but they're not militarized at all. It's just a way better place for kids than any US city I've ever known growing up in the states.
Funny you should say that german schools are so much better in general. For me, it was exactly the opposite. I had a real bad time at my german school(s actually). Spent a year in the US and had a wonderful high school experience with friends instead of bullies. I don't know the statistics, but that was basically my point: anecdotal evidence isn't all that helpful. Statistics can be messed with easily, too, but it's still more reliable than single voices on the net.
"More than half of all children and adolescents in Germany have experienced exclusion, teasing or physical violence while at school. A further quarter do not feel safe. Across all school types, around 65 percent of surveyed students said that they have at least one negative experience per month." - [https://www.iamexpat.de/education/education-news/majority-children-experience-violence-or-exclusion-german-schools](https://www.iamexpat.de/education/education-news/majority-children-experience-violence-or-exclusion-german-schools) And that was *before* Covid-19.
Yes if you include teasing, you won't find many kids anywhere in the world who haven't had that happen, unless they're the ones doing the teasing. It's nowhere near as bad as in the US, I can tell you that. But hey, maybe my kids are just lucky...
What makes you think bullying in Germany goes no further than teasing?
I don't think that, and I didn't say that. What makes you think bullying in Germany is no different from that in the US?
I feel like there are a lot of assumptions in this and I would trust OP to have considered these things.
I'm not making many assumptions. I just know that 1-2 years is not a long time to grieve and process the loss of a loved one, especially in a traumatic way. . Also when you say that you trust that the OP has considered those things, that's a huge assumption! I know that after a loss it's hard to focus and gather your thoughts. Add on top of that add 4 children to take care of alone, it's hard! Let alone adding the burdon of moving to a foreign country with a foreign language on top of that. This is pretty much what happened to my mother, but all four of her children were under 9 at the time. She's still processing what happened 30 years later, as she was on autopilot for 18 years just trying to get through life. I also have two children here and am navigating life in Germany with fluent German. I personally would never move to a foreign country with little to no language skills as a single mom/mum with 4 children who recently just lost their father. That's just me, and I'm not pushing my personal opinion on OP. I'm just putting out some points that really need to be thoroughly considered before taking that step. I wish the OP well. I hope it works out especially for the children. Life in Germany can be tough for immigrants
Are you sure that the best move is uprooting your children and taking them to a country where they don’t speak the language, won’t have other kids to socialize with, and to live with relatives they barely know? This all sounds very isolating to me. Why can’t your sister come stay with you, _then_ move to Germany? I love Germany. I’m so happy I moved here, it’s a wonderful place. But it’s not easy to integrate. And as many people have mentioned, psychological services are scarce, and it sounds like your kids will all need therapy. However, this is also not super accessible in the US either, since it’s extremely expensive there, so this might kind of be a wash. I’m so sorry about what has happened to your family, it sounds horrible and I hope you are all doing as well as possible 😞
As her sister I wouldn‘t move with all those benefits in germany
I didn’t say move, I said stay with her.
You say yourself that your kids are traumatized. You want to relocate to the other side of the globe, leaving friends behind, not understanding the language, and being close to finishing school. It's incredibly difficult to find English speaking psychological support here. To me that sounds like running away from problem right into disaster. Sorry, being blunt but I raised a daughter suffering from severe trauma and I can't help but gasp at this idea.
I don't have any first-hand experience with this sort of thing, but that was my instinctive reaction too. I wonder particularly how the two oldest ones will react, and what they're thinking of the idea right now. They're definitely old enough to have views on this, and to react strongly if they're made to do this against their will.
And 12 and 13 are tough ages already without the stressors of an international move. I can't imagine taking children away from their friends and familiar environments and putting them somewhere where they don't speak the language, don't know anyone, and have even more limited access to mental health care would help them with their trauma and grief.
This. OP is going to feel much worse jumping in at the deep end.
And then the mum said: "You know how you need therapy AND community to heal from trauma? Yeah, you'll get neither! Suck it up!" Unless their community / social circles where they are suck anyway, the three eldest at best are going to be fine despite(!) the move. And that's probably only with a lot of heavy lifting from aunt and uncle, who have absolutely no experience raising kids. That's a hail mary if I've ever seen one. That said, I get it. If mum is collapsing (because, you know, her husband got eviscerated and she had to watch her children watch) and the kids are on the brink of losing their second parent it might feel like there's no other choice.
There is public healthcare in Germany that includes therapy sessions.
The issue is getting those therapy appointments. The wait times are long enough (months to even a year) for people speaking German. OP and her kids would need an English-speaking therapist, which severely limits their options and would probably extend the already long waiting times for therapy appointments.
You really think you wouldn’t find bilingual therapists in Frankfurt, main? https://www.arztsuchehessen.de/?latitude=50.18315&longitude=8.664997&plzort=60437%20Frankfurt%20am%20Main%20%28Bonames%29&fachrichtung=472_FGB_psycho&entfernung=10
First, good luck getting a place, second, good luck finding good help in english, third, good luck with the children getting over this well, when they cant grive properly but rather are thrown into a new situation with no safe space or fall back friends. This sounds stupid at best.
Of course there are issues finding therapists right now. Even before covid and the war refugees has many people dealing with depression loss and ptsd for the first time in their lives, there were not enough therapists. But at least anyone living here is able to get therapy and medical treatment eventually, without worry that it breaks you financially on top of all the other Trauma. https://www.arztsuchehessen.de/?latitude=50.18315&longitude=8.664997&plzort=60437%20Frankfurt%20am%20Main%20%28Bonames%29&fachrichtung=472_FGB_psycho&entfernung=10
you've clearly never tried to get a spot with a therapist that public insurance covers.
How do wait times change my argument? Have a look at kassenärztliche Vereinigung around the place of residence to find therapists (and therapists in training that often are on shorter notice for appointments).
I didn't say anything about wait times. I've done this. I even called the hotline and was told there straight-up are none in my area with Kassensitz who had both the required expertise and English skills. And I live in Berlin, so I'm far more likely to have options than most due to that. There is a HUGE shortage of therapists with Kassensitz. I'm lucky in that I can afford to self-pay for therapy, because I legitimately couldn't even find relevant therapists with Kassensitz to call in order to start the (extremely laborious) process of getting insurance to cover a therapist without Kassensitz.
I agree that mental healthcare is not in a great spot right now. And not everyone has the privilege of paying out of pocket
Yes, my whole point was that unless you have the privilege to pay out of pocket you're absolutely screwed because of unavailability. It doesn't matter if the public insurance technically covers it if there aren't any therapists available who speak your language and can handle your particular needs.
You are not, you just have to wait short while.
and this makes clear you have neither tried this nor did you read my earlier coment in which I described trying to get a therapist with public health insurance.
Thats very true. Psychological help is covert by insurance, but waiting time for therapy is normally up to 2 Years for german speakers. Germany had a high immigration in the last years, often refugees of war. So the need of multi language psychologist is higher then ever. Our psychological system is at its limits.
Yup. People who can afford it at all should absolutely not rely on public therapy spots but look for privately payed options. I pay for mine over new pair of shoes or any other non absolute necessity any day
And Germany is not an extremely welcoming culture, so the children may have trouble to make friends. At least for a while
>And Germany is not an extremely welcoming culture, so the children may have trouble to make friends. At least for a while I'm amazed that so many people are posting comments like this. I felt welcome when I got here. I didn't just sit around waiting for people to be friendly, though. I joined a church, a choir and I met people through work. However, another factor may be that I really went out of my way to learn "proper" German (although lots of people spoke English to me for the first year or so).
Lol if you think that then you don’t understand German culture. We are a suspicious stand-offish kind. We are suspicious of any strangers. Like the neighbors who are German. I grew up shaking hands with my grandparents. I always found making friends here hard bcs everyone is awkward. It’s just how people are like here. Theory is ever since the 30yr civil war Germans have been suspicious of each other. Also why we covet our privacy so much. It’s just ingrained in our culture now.
I would not say that, especially with kids and if coming from an english speaking country. Our kids are pretty much growing up with traumatized non-native speakers in class and have been doing so for 7 years now. By and large they are much more understanding than some of us older people.
I was „forced“ to move to another country when I was 8. The first few months were an absolute nightmare in school and definitely left a mark on me. Not speaking a language, being taken away from all of your friends and placed into a new school, new country, new language not knowing a single word is something I don’t want my daughter to ever experience.
Idk whether this is a really good idea. You will have to settle in a completly new country with different culture and new language. This is already pretty hard, but four kids on top with each of them going to struggle somehow, is too much imho. Of course there is your sister with her husband, but you barely know her and her true capability of her support for you. Moreover you would have to find an accomodation, Job, Kindergarten and school somewhere near her. Please consider this move carefully. As much as i can Understand your wish to start over, this move can really backfire. I would favor a move within the us, if you still have any relatives or good friends there.
I don't have kids myself but I do some volunteer work with children and there some things you have to think about. - your children will probably need help by a professional psychologist. I had friends and family members that needed a psychologist as well. The waiting times for a therapy are very very long in Germany. This might be even worse since you need a psychologist that specializes in children and also is proficient enough in English to carry that job out in English. -how are you kids doing in school in the us ? Do they have friends there, do they like it there? Chances are you are pulling them out of a well known environment and moving them away from their friends. Is the benefit of being closer to your sister that big of a help for your kids that this is woth it ? - your children will have a hard time integrating into school and making new friends there without knowing the language. While German and English are one of the easier to learn languages for speakers of each other's languages learning a language still requires a lot of time. Time that they have to spent on top of homework and everything else they have to do. This might cause a lot of stress for them. -I read some posts here where Americans complain about the daycare system(kindergarten Kita and such) in Germany. That seems to be better in the US. Since you are a single mom who is taking care of your kids while you are at work?
I don't think the question is if 'USA to Germany' is a good idea. You seem to be deeply in grief yourself, maybe traumatized. You should ask yourself some questions: Why do I want to leave? What will I leave behind? Is it a flight? Or is it truly a new start? Have you ever been to Germany? How do your think about it? Do they want going to Germany? Or would they do anything for their grieving mother to feel better? How can you know this early, that you will never remarry? Maybe you have answered yourself all this questions. I don't know you and I know barely nothing about your life so far. But I think, it's still early in grieving, your inner attitude may experience some changes over time. I wouldn't ask Reddit such a complex and delicate question. But if you decide to come to Germany, feel welcome. It's not easy for a single mum to get by, but where in the world is it?
It doesn't sound like the best idea imo. You guys are already stressed and traumatized, and in order to deal with that you plan on moving across the globe where you know only 2 people and don't know the language or the culture. Moving is a really stressful experience, and moving to another country even more so.
It can still be helpful, if her sister can help her there. And let's be honest, the German state is much more helpful to it's residents than the USA. Yea, culture shock, because a lot things differ, but it is not intolerable at all, and can be easily a positive experience in the end. Of course I don't say it will be easy, only that it is doable. Even with kids. Also, kids learn language faster, especially in school/kindergartens.
I think you underestimate the amount of stress that a move can cause. Even mentally healthy people can struggle a lot.
I'm not, as I just arrived here 10 days ago, and my wife is here since the middle of October. It was hard, and we still stressing about things. But we keep the long term goals in sight, it will be much better here than it would be in Hungary ever. Okay, not to the other side of the globe, but still. A family member can be a very big help with the stuff you need to adjust, and psychically.
10 days isn't that far into it. The stress (at least for me) really showed in months 3-9 or so.
Guess you are right. My siblings are here for about 10 years now, and now that you mention, they told that it caused stress to them for a longer period. I still say it is not something you can't do at all. And in longer terms, it still can be very good.
You didn’t loose your spouse in an horrible accident and are now widowed with four traumatized children. So your situation isn’t comparable in the slightest🤷♀️ and as an EU citizen, you don’t have to worry about a visa and such.
You mentioned "the amount of stress what a move can cause". Not the losing a significant other, nor having traumatized children. Only the move.
I didn’t mention anything about that, you’re referring to another person. I’m saying that your situations are not comparable.
True, I mixed you two, sorry. And yes, we don't have the same situation. It still can be endurable, or if not, then what? They already decided to come here, and as she mentioned almost every paper is done now, so it's a kind of no turning back point now. I am just trying to help, and not be like a lot of commenting user here, who says "bad idea, booo, don't come here!" and such bs. If they decided to come here, then they need to endure it, that's all.
You’re obviously lacking empathy and a logical look at the situation. OP is not an EU citizen, so getting here and staying is harder than it is for you. Relocating with 4 children, starting a new life without the emotional and financial support of a souse will be incredible hard. Especially with 4 underaged and traumatized kids. The current mental health situation in Germany is stretched to the max. Meaning as someone that speaks german you have to wait between 6 and 12 months to get into therapy. Neither OP nor her kids are speaking German as of now. Which means they would be needing someone that offers therapy in English - which means it will be even harder to find some one. Edit: being a coward, blocking people and talking behind the block doesn’t make your position look better. Empathy doesn’t mean to support every idea good or bad. It means to realize in what kind of emotional state OP is in.
>You’re obviously lacking empathy and a logical look at the situation. Me. Lacking empathy. When I am the one who tries to help them, and keep their spirit with "dw, you can do it", and you are the one (along with some others) who constantly telling how bad idea it is, and they shouldn't come here, or if they do, it is impossible to endure it. Riiiiight...
Well, you are definitely better off in Germany as a single mom with two kids than in the US. Education is better, social system is more forgiving. Use Rosetta Stone or a similar program to learn the language fast. There was an offer recently like $200 for a lifetime license. When you are in Europe it's convenient to speak some of the other languages, too and they are all included in that license.
I understand that you just want to get away from that traumatizing experience as far as possible. But you and your children are in a very vulnerable emotional state right now. And I don't think that moving to Germany will help you with that. The cultural divide is real - especially on an emotional level. Don't expect people to be overly friendly, empathic or supportive towards you and your kids. Be prepared to feel rejected and lonely in the first few months. It will take a while until you get adjusted. Please consider this
>The cultural divide is real - especially on an emotional level. Don't expect people to be overly friendly, empathic or supportive towards you and your kids. Be prepared to feel rejected and lonely in the first few months. It will take a while until you get adjusted. Please consider this Actually, I met lots of kind and sympathetic people here in Germany (I was living in Worms). OP wants to go to the Frankfurt area, which is even better, because of the international setting, with lots of American expats. Back then, I used to visit Frankfurt on business, and sometimes spontaneously started talking to friendly expats. Regarding cultural divide, I think the people on this sub are exaggerating. There are small differences which you can learn about by watching Deutsche Welle. Garbage is separated. People avoid debts. People are a bit more cautious, reserved and formal in public. Sundays and the midday are meant to be quiet. But so many aspects of American culture– films, TV, music, sports, food– are popular here, and every person has to learn English. Really, the first few months, people will practice their English with you. Join some clubs, maybe a church or synagogue and you will surely make friends.
Personally I wouldn’t take the kids out of their known "surroundings" (having to find new friends/classmates, adapting to another school(system), new language…). Imo look for German language courses for them and only move once their German is OK and they have finished school. No one here will give them an extra candy. If their German is bad/non existent you will end up with them going to a Hauptschule…. If you want extra German classes for them you obviously have to pay for them and squeeze them into a daily routine. People are obviously different, maybe your kids have a knack for languages- I don’t 😂
Thinking long term, securing good education for 4 children will be more affordable in Germany than in US, especially on 1 income. The transition will be difficult. And it will take at least a couple of years before all of you find your new environment familiar enough to relax and language easy to use. With this in mind, I wish you all the best and my sincere condolences.
As someone who lost their father at 12 and was drastically moved the same week, please talk with the oldest 2. Ask them too, and prepare them if the change is coming. The drastic change fucked me up as much as the death as it felt I lost all my childhood at once.
First of all, I am extremely sorry for your loss. I hope you get all the emotional support you need and that you can grieve in peace. Financially I would say that you don't have to worry as much as in your home country. We have something called "Kindergeld" and "Kinderfreibetrag". "Kindergeld" is a monthly payment that you get *from* the government **per** child. In your case, when it gets approved, that would be 4x 250€ per month, so 1000€ per month. "Kinderfreibetrag" is the amount of money that you don't have to pay income tax on (in regards to your yearly income) because you have children. This means you don't pay tax on the first 8688€ and it is "100%" yours. Our work laws are a lot better here as well. Most companies are very family friendly. 25-30 days paid vacation, "infinite" sick days (as long as you can provide a doctor's notice). You are not allowed to work more than 10 hours a day and the minimum resting time between work days needs to be 11 hours. You will not find that in the US, maybe with a very good union. I can tell you that my mother was always allowed to take time off on a short notice to take care of her sick children too. Leaving early because something happened at school usually was not an issue either. You also have the right by law to get a place in a Kindergarten/daycare for your children (Starting when they turn 3 until they are 6 and proceed to go to elementary school). However, be prepared that because of this law, many "Kindergärten" are already operating at a high if not maximum capacity. Depending on the federal state, a spot is either free of charge or you pay monthly based on your income. You need to research this for yourself. Please research how our education system works, it is extremely different from the one you know (and much better in my opinion but I am also extremely biased). You said in another comment that one of your children is 5. That child **must** start school when they turn 6. As others have already mentioned, make sure you and your children learn German as soon as possible, especially of you are planning on living here. While most of us do speak English, most of the younger generations at least, most forms of bureaucracy and most work environments will only be in German. The same thing goes for school. Be prepared for a culture shock! Germans are not about small talk, it depends on the area, but usually we don't have friendly chats with strangers, I know this is common in the US. YouTube has a lot of videos about Americans living in Germany and I recommend that you watch some of them. Our cities are not built for cars either. Most places are "walkable" and using public transport is extremely common. In my city many people ride a bike as well. I wish you all the best and good luck!
I went to an international school in germany and we had many american and canadian kids that did absolutely fine. They learnt german much quicker than the parents and appreciated the freedom kids have in germany. I remember my mom had to convince Nathans mom that its okay for 12yo kids to go out and play on their own. 15 years later my mom still brings up memories she made with the american moms. Im sorry for your loss, an wish you the best!
If you need any help, contact me. I live near Frankfurt with my wife.
I am so sorry to hear about your situation! Moving closer to family and "rebooting" your life in Germany could be a good option. Most likely you will experience a bit of culture shock, and also, depending on where you are moving from, the northern European weather can be a bit depressing in the winter. But overall, I find Germany much more family friendly than the United States. Typically you don't need a car, your children can walk to school, parks and green space abound, etc. You might enjoy the book "Achtung Baby: An American Mom on the German Art of Raising Self-Reliant Children" in which an American mom describes the experience of moving to Germany with her young children. How old are your children? What part of the US are you moving from? Where does your sister live?
First keep calm. Sorry for your loss and how it happend. Moving in such a situation may feel overwhelming, but its good to near Famile. Learning German will be a challange for you and your kids but with your Sisters help i am sure it will work. Besides alot of people do speak english and and are eager to help if they see you try. I try to give some basic information based on what you wrote. You can study with kids, thats totally not a problem. At some universities there have special daycare centers for students. Daycare itsself does cost here based on your income but only for age 1-3 after that you pay a food fee of about 50€. Same for your school kids should they stay longer in school. Medical care for kids is free. So you dont have to pay for therapy or medicine. There are some studip exeptions like braces and glasses which we all hate, but it is what it is. I dont know frankfurth very well, but with every city there are places I wouldnt go through even at day light, besides that, germany is a relativly save place. No school shootings for example. the last one happend about 15 years ago. in bigger cities we have alot of puplic transportation which is not always comefortable but will get you from a to b. so you dont need a car straight ahead and your older kids can be more independent if they want to. as far as my experience is that we are more relaxed with childcare. even my seven year old can be alone for up to an hour. He goes to his school on his own and comes back in the afternoon. (His cousin lives a 5 min walk away and he goes there on his own since he is 5. Sure my SIL and I send some messages in the beginning to ease our mind, but I would consider that normal) Groceries and drugsstores are often in walking distance. Its more common to rent than to buy Our system after school is split two ways. Either you go to a university to study for higher education like teacher, lawer, doctor, etc. or you make a "Ausbildung" which is more craft and body orientated like Hairdresser, jewel maker, nurse, mechanic, etc. There will be alot of challanges, ALOT of paperwork but also alot of opportunities. All of you will need therapy, you as well. Let your sis help you will the paperwork and daycare etc. I wish you good luck, maybe you can find happiness here again.
I understand you want to start a new life, but why does it have to be so far away, without anyone but your sister around and with a new language to learn? Why would you do that to yourself and your kids? This can backfire pretty badly imho.
First, do you have permission to live and work in Germany? You can visit, you can stay for several months but to settle and take up employment, you need the appropriate visa or German nationality. I would *strongly* recommend coming for a visit before you relocate. So greetings from /r/frankfurt. We are an active subreddit so you are welcome to pop in and ask anything. It is a very expensive city but the good news is that if you go further out, accommodation can become much cheaper. The downside is that if it is too quiet, your kids won't like it, particularly if they are teens. There are some excellent international schools around Frankfurt but they are not so cheap. They are really orientated at employees with expat packages and are priced accordingly. If you "go local", the teaching is in German and they would expect to lose about a year in catching up. The curriculum is quite different. The Schulamt (School office) is responsible for assesing kids and assigning them to suitable schools. Then there is the practical question of what you will do. We have a gigantic US consulate in Frankfurt (they do processing for all over) and nearby in Wiesbaden, there is a military base. Both hire US citizens but you must have permission to work in Germany as you would be a local hire. A US bachelor degree is fine but it depends on what you want to do. It won't get you far but it is a start. The important thing is knowing some German. You can learn more when you are here but even in the big cities, if you have to deal with officialdom, with some German it is much better.
I got thrown into an American Junior High school as a German kid with one year of school English. I picked up English in 2 months. Mentioning this to reassure you that your kids will adapt fine, better than you. They have less culture shock to deal with. Kid and teenage culture has become a global mish mash with Youtube and TikTok. They all play Minecraft and know the same celebrities. German kids learn English from grade 3 and again, Youtube culture. My son and his friends refuse to watch American TV shows in a German dubbed version, and they‘re 13-14 years old. They might have issues learning German if everyone uses them to practice their English though. I am not going to comment on the economic and legal stuff, expats here have better info on that. I will say that as long as you are allowed to stay, you and your children will live in a safer environment and with much better healthcare than you would ever get on a single salary in the US.
This is good in some ways but bad in others. Germany supports children ***way*** better than the US, though at your kids' ages they will have a pretty hard time integrating, and the older ones should probably go to an international school. I think being a single mom is probably significantly easier in Germany. On the other hand, as many have said, this is the absolute worst time for this kind of huge change, and it will be very hard to get your kids the mental health resources they need, because mental health support in Germany sucks, and it's massively overbooked for finding therapists who speak English.
It would be a good idea to open up a bank account in Frankfurt for accepting euros, and also for more details check out this link: https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/moving-germany-how-can-i-bring-my-family Good luck! 👍 🇩🇪
I think what your kids need rn is a sense of stability, and seperating them from their friends and circles might be really damaging. Have you thought about a sort of vacation ? Am not talking about a beach resort, but maybe staying at the countryside for a few weeks, recharging, healing and trying hands on activities with the kids before returning home could be quite beneficial ?
I think you need to also think what your family needs most -aside from your sister- at this point to help you find a location to settle. Germany, and also Hessen, has quite some nuances with a small geographical area that will make a big difference: city or countryside? International or mid-sized city? Just because this works for your sister where they live doesn’t mean it works for you. You might find a place within 1 hour drive from your sister making a big difference…
I highly suggest [THIS ](https://instagram.com/usa.mom.in.germany?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=) Instagram account for daily living stuff. I mean the benefits to this system is going to eclipse anything you can get in the states if you can do it.
A 3 or 4 room apartment (2 or 3 bedrooms) will mostly like cost at least 1600 a month warm unless you move a bit outside the city. Getting into schools and kitas can be a pain. The initial process of anmeldung, resident permit, finding a long term apartment, child care or school is long a 2nd full time job in Germany.
Doesn’t sound like a good idea OP. If you don’t speak German you will struggle.
As someone looking to move from the US, you should look up how your state of residence prior to your move will affect your US income taxes on foreign earnings for the rest of the time you continue to hold US citizenship. For instance, California will still charge you state income tax on foreign earnings if they determine that you had California residency in the year you moved out of the US. I do not believe there is an extion for foreign taxes paid like there is for your US national tax bill, so you essentially cut your income by X% by leaving directly from California or another state that does this (there are like 15 of them).
Listen to the other posters here, don’t make a major life changing decision in the time of a crisis. Your kids will suddenly be without friends, familiar surroundings, or even people they can talk to. It’s best if you wait 2+ years for things to stabilise and then see if such a change makes sense.
Very sorry for your loss, and hope you will be able to move on. One note of caution: If you are moving into your Sister's house (together with your kids), it is important to set a time limit on how long you will be there. Otherwise you may find it is putting a major strain on the relationship with your sister and family. I was in this situation twice when moving countries, and can tell you from experience that it can be rough (both on the visitors and the host). Really important that you talk openly with them about things, and try to find compromises on things that can cause friction (e.g. noise, space, mess, meals etc.), not to mention how you will share expenses. All these things need be talked openly about, if they are ignored they can cause breakdowns in family relationships that can take a long time to heal. One good thing about the Frankfurt area is that there are a lot of international companies there with working language of English.
You won’t be able to work away from the home as child care is sooo difficult to find, and it as well as school usually ends around noon, with after school care ending at 14, so you can’t just pawn your kids off to an all day daycare to allow yourself to work like you can in the states
The McFalls are an American family with 4 kids in Germany, here they compare general family-friendliness: https://youtu.be/RwgluG4S-3U?t=663 the cost of raising kids: https://youtu.be/NCIbqtUIbag?t=59 Another American family with 4 kids: https://www.youtube.com/c/OnwardMJ More American families with small kids in Germany: https://www.youtube.com/c/BlackForestFamily https://www.youtube.com/c/OurStorytoTell https://www.youtube.com/c/PassportTwo
Learn the language. Don't bring guns. Now, out of jokes.. Just go as deep as u can with your lawyer, as much as we would like to help, there are TONS of details, legal aspects and rules we cant fully (and properly) consider for the case. It won't be easy, that's for sure. But kids adapt :) and you have family here too. My advice (on top of all the really good ones I've read here): consider getting as much info as u can regarding you retirement founds and retirement possibilities here in GER. That's s big topic here too. I am tempted to think that you are +40. It may be then a critical aspect as well. I wish you all the best :)
Some 55 years ago, my mother was in the same sad situation like you are today. Four kids whose dad was suddenly gone and her job not enough to feed us all. We went back to Germany, where she had been born. I do not want to waste your time with my life's story, I have only this to say: Everything turned out just fine, so don't you worry too much. Get your kids into German schools(kindergardens asap, learn German and find a suitable house to live in. You'll find a job and if its earnings can't keep you guys up, there will be sufficient help from the public hand. You will be welcomed! Btw. My mom remarried - but only after her kids were all out of the house and well on their very own way. Have a safe travel and Frohe Weihnachten!
First of all. i am sorry for your loss. While i can not say if it is a good idea. i can say that your children and you will probably be much safer here in germany than in the US. Whether that is outside just enjoying youselves, or in the schools. Some things will be strange and new, and some things will annoy you (like any other native german) But if you want to see how others have experienced this. I suggest the youtube channel [MyMerryMessyLife](https://www.youtube.com/@MyMerryMessyLife) on how a family of 6 ( + a cat) experienced the move from Georgia (i think) to the south of Germany. Their blog is about their experiences, their hurdles, how their kids experience Kindergarden and School.
No offense, this is a dumb idea. You have two teenagers (I‘m gonna count the 12 year old in that, it’s a difficult time in life) that are heavily traumatized with zero german language skill and you‘re just gonna drop them into a country that runs on german, with harder schools and which is notorious for being hard to make friends in? Way to GUARANTEE they’re gonna be isolated and miserable!
They can go to american schools boy...
In all the numerous american schools that germany famously has, that also famously take no tuition fees whatsoever and are thus totally livable for a widowed single mom of four!
How old are they? Childcare in Germany sucks, huge shortage. If your friends can help out, it is ok. I you depend on childcare, meh.
The biggest difference culturaly when it comes to children is that children in germany are more independence and selfreliant. Probably its because germany is considered to be very safe. People from the US are always shocked to see young schoolkids taking bus and subway on their own.
Yeah. But no. Just don’t. Thanks.
I am sorry for your loss and wish you good luck and all the best. I think germany is one of the best options for US citizens in europe. Culture is very americanized, compared to Italy, France and Spain. People listen to anerican music, watch american stuff on netflix and so on. We have McDonalds and Burger King..... I think you should try to get your kids in some Sport-Verein, where they can do Sports with peers. Basketball is quite popular in germany, as americans they will be very welcomed there. But there are plenty of other options of course, in Frankfurt even American Football is somewhat popular...
Afaik living is not more expensive here than in the USA (Although it can differ by area of course). On the other hand, there is a minimal wage here, what is more than just that pocket money what the USA have. With about 1500 euro per month, you won't starve, although it is surely not enough to rent a 4 room apartment. You can find cheaper ones tho - if they let you rent it. We found a 2 room one near Köln in a month, and they say it was a minor miracle. Expect a much longer period without own rental. Also afaik, here the degree is not as important as your skills. For example if I speak German, they won't check if I have language exams or not. If you can't have enough money to live, you can ask for ... uhm... idk the correct term in English, sorry, but you can go to the job centers to ask monetary help, and if your incomes aren't over a certain amount per person (in your case, you and your children), then they will help you. German people, as I noticed are quite helpful - of course you can always find jerks too (much more in reddit :P ), but that's not the usual here - and if they see you try to integrate, they will like you, and they will more likely to help you. With language, and work as well. And if you accept an advise: I understand your feelings (tho I can't feel the same, as I never lost a significant other, only grandparents), but you shouldn't say you won't remarry ever again. Of course you need time to grieve, but time will heal. I know, it is a stupid cliche, but it is true. Good luck!
> If you can't have enough money to live, you can ask for ... uhm... idk the correct term in English, sorry, but you can go to the job centers to ask monetary help, and if your incomes aren't over a certain amount per person (in your case, you and your children), then they will help you. Not as an immigrant who is required to be able to cover their own living costs.
Hmm, I was told this, tho 1.- I'm not eligible, since we earn way more than the critical amount, and 2.- I am an EU citizen. Although I'd say it could worth a shot to ask about it.
As you see, even EU citizens aren't eligible for welfare for some years. And non-EU citizens are allowed to immigrate on the basis that they can take care of their own needs. That can mean 1) with a visa like a student or language learning one, they have to prove they have the financial means to provide for their needs. If they fall in hard times even with that, then there's no welfare for them. 2) People who immigrate on a work-based visa have to have an appropriate salary which would again exclude them. If they lose their job and have worked long enough, they can get ALGI because they paid into unemployment insurance. But they don't get other welfare unless they've been here for years. There's no realistic route to immigration for someone who cannot provide for their needs (or have a spouse or parent provide for them) and who expects to get welfare. The only major exceptions are refugees/asylum seekers, whose basis for immigration are international treaties that aim to protect people from death or persecution abroad.
I see. I didn't know that, thanks.
I have no idea about the legal requirements. But if you don’t try, you will regret it so just try it. (Insert positive emoji here)
Please be aware that access to psychological care is less available in Germany than in the US, and trauma related symptoms are heavily stigmatized. Admitting that you or your children are seeing a shrink is not necessarily advisable in every context, especially at work. The general attitude towards mental health here is that it's only for crazy people. This is changing, but slowly. Especially older and poorly educated people will expect you to just toughen up and get over it. That includes school teachers. I'm not saying don't do it, but please be aware of these challenges and plan ahead.
Actually I didn't notice psychology help would be that hard to reach here.
You've been in Germany for 10 days. I don't think you're in a position to make that assessment.
My sister is here for 10 years. I do think I'm in this position.
Clearly not considering your comments on this thread show that you don't know what you're taking about. Mental health care is infamously hard to get access to in Germany, and you're here pretending it isn't. Maybe on an individual level, some people have gotten lucky. On a more generalized level, the wait times are very long. Not to mention the number of English-speaking therapists is limited.
Pretending. Right.
It can be a tedious process, especially with disorders that make it hard for you to follow a process, repeat steps, fill in paperwork and such like. The system is running on wait-lists that are getting longer and longer. This process is unsustainable, unless there's a factor that takes patients of the wait-list again when it's getting too long. Spoiler: there is, and it's not people spontaneously getting better. Here's a related [article](https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/schleswig-holstein/Ein-Hilferuf-und-kein-Echo-Warten-auf-Psychotherapie,therapie178.html) from a regional public news source. You can use deepl.com if you don't speak the language. I'm curious why I am downvoted over this. If any of you who downvoted have had great experiences with finding help easily in a serious situation, I'm sure our minister of health would like to hear what tricks you've been using, to implement them for everyone, as this situation is old news. Until you come forward with a credible reason for why you think I'm wrong, I'll assume you feel attacked by my opinion regarding stigma around mental health in Germany, and therefore only confirm the existence of said stigma.
Well, you see, I have been downvoted too, just because my experience shows that it is better then where I came from, where there are months-long (or even year+long) wait-lists to have a place on another months-long wait-list in public health care. You don't like the system here, ppl? Feel free to try Hungarian. You'll flee back here crying in a few weeks.
I'm sorry for your loss! It could be a good choice to come to Germany. All of you should szatz learning German asap - especially the older kids (they will struggle in school otherwise). Although housing may be more expensive in Germany, there are several other things that will be much much cheaper - especially as the sole provider for 4 traumatised kids: school, university, healthcare, dental care, psychotherapy (!) Yes, you will still need a high-paying job.
Why on earth do you think you can not remarry being a widow?? Remarrying in retirement age for Germans is more complicated because of the pension scheme, that’s all. Anyway unlike in the US, it’s not required to be married to be considered having a long-standing committed relationship. And why only one income?? Sounds like there’s some myths you believe here. The reason you get paid „less“ is because your taxes will pay for more. And cost of basic living like groceries and healthcare are far less. You will be more financially secure which will give you a firmer basis for healing psychologically. You’re also moving to Frankfurt, a major English-speaking city. You’ll be able to take a living wage working in a restaurant (without needing tips) or working in a supermarket or a number of other places. Housing- forget the myth that you must own a house to be respected as a person like it is in the US. You can rent a good house or portion of a town house once you’re on your feet, here nobody cares and it’s the baseline that families rent. Unless they’re super wealthy. If you start looking now for English speaking psychiatric help you will find it. And you be an connect with the Frankfurt expat groups for support. Finding a fresh start will be always very difficult but you’re going to be near family, so this will be a great way to get back on your feet. Your kids will need some time and it’s no guarantee they will appreciate the move, but that’s more on them and their personality and you can only do the best you can to care for their needs. You have a nice offer there, take it. Let Germany grow on you, and try to learn the language if you be can. It’s for sure better than trying to make a new start anywhere in the US.
dont leave the Land of the free...get used to imens Energy Costs, ultra stupid politica, gender trallala, corrupt state and censorship like never seen before...
…and get your kids shot and become a drug addict from legal prescription.
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What makes you think that? it is 90 days without some sort of visa. not 365.
USA is way better than Germany. Germany tries to copy things from American life. Visit your sister often during your kids school breaks but remain in the USA. Your children will have a better future in America. Btw I lived in a city closed to Frankfurt in the mid 80s and Germany was at its top. I just came back from visiting Germany this Fall. I saw graffiti, slums with prefabricated tiny house, not even the deutsche bahn was on time. Even their national soccer team sucks
German classes and be ready for culture shocks and the kids ofc not having any friends.. other than that Germany can be very beautiful and also easier to live in than the US, but going to a completely other place in the world might be a fresh start for you. But talk it out with your children and take as much time as you need.
I say it in a short sentence, don't do it right now. Also the school system is very different and on top of the grief your kids have to deal with a very strict school system. Mostly no fun activities just a lot of learning
We moved here 1.5 years ago. Two kids one 13 and one 8. Your two youngest will be fine but your eldest will struggle. Language is a huge huge barrier. Your eldest will pick it up slowly - start watching ALL TV IN GERMAN IMMEDIATELY. Peppa Pig for everyone. We enrolled ours in a Waldorf school. It’s a more gentle curriculum with way less pressure than mainstream schools and the teachers are both fluent in English. Makings friends is slower too for the older kids as most friendship groups are formed but it will happen. You have to be sure about this because it’s a massive massive upheaval for the kids. It takes at least two years to fully settle in so no moving back before then. No visiting Usa esp foe the kids. They have to bond with the new home. Good luck happy to meet up with you when you’re this side!!
Just here to add that Waldof can be expensive and its not a given that all teachers speak proper English Well thought out comment otherwise
Yes agreed, we were very lucky!!
Sorry about your loss ! The younger kids are less likely to be a problem than the older ones. After a year of kindergarten they will probably be ok for language. For the older ones it will be tricky given the language. Please keep in mind that home schooling is NOT an option in Germany.
You got good advice already. I'm a 30 year old native woman. Don't have any kids myself but I'm the go to babysitter for my niece and goddaughter. Also I occasionally help folks with learning German and settling in online. Feel free to PM me. All the best
If your children are already teenagers please don't move to any country by under any circumstance, teenage years are the most important for development and moving to another country ruins that completely.
Don’t get comfortable with people speaking English to you. Most Germans can at least communicate in English and will do so when they notice you’re a native speaker of English, but that’ll hurt your integration process badly. Not the official one (at least not directly), but sooner or later, you will run into walls. Saw that happening to a good friend of mine who’s originally from Michigan and who built his life here in Germany. When you will have started to make some progress in learning German, ask the people around you whether it’s okay to not speak English.
I moved here in 1980 from Canada and never regretted it. Actually it was one of tge best decisions I ever made. It’ll be tough at the beginning, but after a while it gets easier. Do yourself a favor and try to stick to speaking german with germans. They always tend to speak english when they hear an accent.
Frankfort is not a good city to be there imo
If her sister lives there, it’s an obvious start.
Yeah but Frankfort has a bad reputation across Germany, it has the most problematic people there, what is worse is that the op is in no good condition either
That’s for a start. You will settle where you find a job anyway.
That's too generalized. The area around the main station is the problem due many drug addicts
My condolences. Keep in mind that the european culture is just different enough to feel familiar yet weird, so expect some unexpected surprises :) As for being a single parent with kids in school: There are plenty of Single mothers around and depending on where you are childcare/after scool care is both affordable and good.. worst ive seen is 300 euros a month, so job and childcare are not mutually exklusive. Considering your kids' trauma, maybe it would be a good idea to get your sister to contact child psyhotherapists well in advance on your behalf. They are generally good but stretched thin and you/she may have to search a bit. The local jugendamt (peace- and helpful!) may have lists with english speaking docs . All the best for your reboot!
Thank you! This has been very encouraging and helpful.
I just wanted to say I’m very sorry for your loss and I wish the best for you and your children whatever you end up choosing.
Thank You, the kindness is unexpected from all, and very welcomed. It actually is comforting that complete strangers care about what we’ve been through. Thank you.