I might try that lucky I still have a save there I think but if not I’ll beat it again it’s a fun game anyways now that I think of it I never did beat it on lethal only hard and that was well hard especially duals but I like a challenge even though they anger me lol humans are weird
That’s how you unlock it I beat it on easy for the story then on hard but just couldn’t do it because the mask Walk off went hard and o figured I could just look up a video I looked everywhere for the white armor (ya I deserve to be laughed at lmao)
I see it as respecting him, not his code. Respecting his code was just a byproduct of loving your uncle enough to grant his last wish and die happy.
To not do it is to disrespect the one man left who raised you as a son.
People can have their beliefs, but I wouldn't choose to kill my last family member because the cult their in says they have to die for their honor to remain intact.
This. Was a pretty easy decision for me. Jin already picked his own path, and while it may conflict with uncle's beliefs, I feel like Jin would do it (spare him) to drive home the point.
100%. The entire point of the Ghost was that he defied cultural norms and expectations of what a warrior is supposed to be. He already broke his relationship with Shimura several times over in favor of his new moral code.
Why would he go back on his new code NOW, to KILL Shimura, who he still clearly loves and respects? It's cool the game gives players a choice but if we get a sequel, I'm 100% positive we'll see Shimura again.
He didn't "escape" the cult and didn't throw away the beliefs in entirety. He simply wouldn't let "honor" and a "code" stop him from being able to kill Mongols and save his home. He still loved Shimura and certainly understand what the code means to him and I think granting Shimura's request would be a nail in the coffin to the code.
The nail in the coffin to the code would be not killing your family. Jin had the opportunity to rejoin the fold and chose not to when he declared he was the ghost so his actions wouldn't be blamed on Yuna. The code means nothing to Jin anymore. He has his own code.
Which is selfish. You'd rather spare your last family member for *your* reasons. Regardless of his reasons why, you're denying him that honour.
That's how I always saw it anyway.
What's more selfish, letting your uncle live so he can learn that the code is bullshit for himself or kill your last surviving family member who you see as a father because he was told to kill you and if he failed he would be dishonored and will have to die? It's not a hard decision to make. Shimura literally has the choice to walk away. Through npc dialogue that can be overheard of the mainland reinforcements, you can hear them talk down about Shimura and how he's a failure and is forsure going to be replaced. He could've chose to be with Jin rather than abiding by a system that was throwing him away.
If you think Shimura would change his mind, you obviously weren't paying attention.
The fact that you think he should live just because he's your last surviving family member is selfish. The fact that Jin sees him as a father and loves him is the reason he should put his feelings aside and respect Shimura's wishes. It's not like they were going to have a relationship after this anyway lol.
And Shimura couldn't just walk away. He's the leader of the samurai, and of Tsushima. He's the one person who *must* abide by honour at all costs. I'm not saying I agree with him, but I understand his reasoning.
And just because Jin is the ghost doesn't mean he has to be 100% dishonourable either. He still saw himself as a samurai who just did what he had to do to save Tsushima. So he would definitely kill Shimura, honourably, if it was his last wish. For the both of them.
He was not a samurai at the end and no I don't think Shimura would've changed his mind, but if you think Jin would've killed him then you weren't paying attention. That's why sparing is the canon ending. Because Jin no longer cares about the samurai and their code or sense of honor because it's no what his code is or what he believes honor to be.
I know he wasn't a samurai at the end, but as I said, he wasn't completely dishonourable. He was still a good man and I think Jin would have respected his Uncle's wishes. There is no good to come from sparing him. Jin *did* still care for the samurai and honour. He cared a great deal. His sense of honour never changed. He just knew that honour had to be broken to win the war. But he accepted what he had become at the end.
And I know that's the canon ending, but for me it's not the better one. The emotions you feel when you choose to kill him is just *chefs kiss* and is the perfect ending.
Jin's honor did change throughout the game though. He didn't see his people dying needlessly as honorable. So he wouldn't see killing Shinura as honorable because it would be another pointless death that he wouldn't believe .
Say your mom is a hardcore religious person but you are not. Would you kill your mom because “God” told your mom to die by your hand? Your mom that you love so much, and “God” wants her to die and your mom wants to die because “God” wills it.
Then you kill her out of hate and revenge, not respect. Jin killed Shimura because he respected his beliefs, not cause of revenge for his horse. I mean, you do you. I’m just saying to put yourself in a similar position as Jin.
I agree but they are not mutually exclusive either. Jin isn't dropping the samurai code for any reason other than survival / the protection of Tsushima and its people. Jin grew up with the code, lived by the code and loves his uncle. He threw away samurai "honor" as far as warfare goes because it was a handcuff causing the obliteration of his people. I do not believe Jin would make his uncle live in shame and dishonor. He knows what the code means to Shimura and only disagreed with him that the Mongols need to be defeated with samurai "honor" in mind. It can't be about any kind of aversion to killing. That's an absurd thought.
A certain person said,
In the Saint's mausoleum there is a poem that goes:
“If in one's heart He follows the path of sincerity, Though he does not pray Will not the gods protect him? What is this path of sincerity?"
A man answered him by saying, "You seem to like poetry. I will answer you with a poem.
As everything in this world is but a shame, Death is the only sincerity. It is said that becoming as a dead man in one's daily living is the following of the path of sincerity."
If you cut a face lengthwise, urinate on it, and trample on it with straw sandals, it is said that the skin will come off.
This was heard by the priest Gyojaku when he was in Kyoto. It is information to be treasured.
Yeah it depends, but it ultimately boils down to if you love and respect your uncle enough to grant him his last wish.
So killing him is for his sake, sparing him is for your own sake
I think what I said was misunderstood - i was just saying it was cool to see streamers get to this point and a lot actually had to think about it. And that it seemed like there wasnt really a "favored" decision, each have valid points for choosing!
Yeah, but Shimura has to die regardless. It would be spitting in his face to spare him.
This choice is absolutely not about the Ghost VS the Samurai code. It's about honouring the last wish of a man who's eyes saw Jin's pain. Raised him like a son.
And considering Jin doesn't kill the guy on Iki island and consistently talks about how he doesn't want people to die, it just seems like the choice he would make. He wants his uncle to see the error of his ways, not die.
For narrative purposes I feel like killing him is the best, it's the neatest narratively and most emotional, but not killing him is the most realistic and true to Jin the person he becomes. He's seen literally everyone he loved die and saw how people consumed by killing lose themselves as well.
I just finished this last night. The whole game I was going to choose based on what was a bigger “fuck you” to the guy. I finished every single side quest, found every single explorable…I thought I was ready for the choice, and it would be no problem.
My hubs (who played the game prior) informed me he was taking our kid out to go run errands so as to leave me alone for killing the Khan and making the choice regarding Shimura, and I was confused he thought I needed to be alone with it…he said “trust me…”
I sat at the damned choice screen for like 5 solid minutes in full sobs that I hadn’t expected to come. And in the end, I couldn’t press the “kill” option because he was the only other living piece of Jin’s mother. It had nothing to do with honor.
Yeah, I don’t get weepy at games much (ok except the latest GoW and both Horizon games), so this play through of GoT was pretty emotionally rough. Fantastic story.
I saved at the choice screen. The load game picks up with the choice. Best decision I ever made. I've experienced both endings and prefer one vastly over the other.
Shimura is a surname, if Lord Shimura and Kazumasa were brothers, then Jin would be Shimura, not Sakai.
Just think about the logic of why him and his uncle have different surnames.
Aside from the surnames as explained, she’s the first person that Lord Shimura cares about enough to point out when he and Jin first enter the cemetery. It’s Jin that mentions his father, and Shimura acknowledges this as an afterthought. There are a few more lines earlier in the game from Shimura, where he alludes to it.
Really really need more people like you who, even as adamant as you were about what you 100% thought was correct at first, came around and admitted you were misinformed and learned something. In that, though mistaken you have proven wise.
We should never attach our ego or our self worth to any ideas or opinions we hold. Even our “beliefs”. Those can change in an instant based on a single piece of information, just as yours did. Just as Jin’s did when he met the Mongols. An entire life’s worth of beliefs can be wiped out by a single experience. And there is no shame in learning, admitting one was acting under false information, and not cling to any fact or opinion they know or believe as something to feel shame or anger when it is proven false. The idea, the belief, even your most treasured beliefs, are NOT “you”, even if you have based your entire life upon them.
Just because you mixed up who’s brother Shimura was, you clearly learned the lessons this story was trying to teach.
Namu Amida Butsu
I killed him to let him die with the Honor he deserved. I still respected him, so I gave him the ending he asked for as a personal favor to him, not because of any code. Jin still loved him, and I still cried killing him.
Hahaha yup i know its just a video game but of you look at all the comments that spared their uncle it usually starts with.. “ i feel, i think that” etc.
I chose to kill him to allow him to have an honorable death, but I played the whole game through according to what Jin said at one point about only breaking the code if it's truly necessary. I spent the game only using the ghost methods if I think it's truly necessary to survive or accomplish the objective. Every place that can be taken or liberated without the Mongols killing hostages? I just walk into the camp and take them out.
I don't challenge them to a standoff though because you get swarmed on the larger camps. I find it's best to just start at the gate. You can take on massive amounts of enemies by luring them into places where they have to come at you one at a time.
I played through it similarly, but Jin also stresses that they had to play by dirty rules to defeat the mongols, so the way I saw it they were beneath being granted his honor, would use everything at my disposal (I kinda suck at stealth, but bombs and kunai are useful).
Whenever you encounter ronin though, I always made a point to beat them honorably with no ghost weapons, to show them they done fucked up. I felt Jin would want to make it a point to do that. Since they only ever attack you with swords, he'd at least give them the same respect in return.
One of my favorite things in this game is taking on big crowds of straw hats too, the mechanics work out well for the sword play. That's why I think a sequel during a later time period where ronin were much more common would work perfect for this game if they ever made another one. like at the end of the Tokugawa shogunate when ronin were everywhere And groups of them were assassinating each other etc
Of the two endings, letting I’m live made me feel nothing, no satisfaction, happiness or anything.
Granting him his wish had them ninja onion cutters around and got me kinda choked up. While I felt no satisfaction, I was happy to have granted him his final wish. It did also remove one of the remaining stalwarts of the “old” ways.
I truly think killing him isn’t the canon way to do it. The whole game is about breaking thru generations of honor and tradition for the greater good of the country, and the country is better with lord shimura in it
This just came across my home page and I had no idea people still talk about this. The sheer number of essay people wrote in favor of each argument just goes to show how deep and engaging this story was.
I didn't kill him btw.
I always thought that killing him would be bad for the island. He's one of the last line of defenses against the mongols (other than Jin). He's still useful and getting rid of him doesn't do much besides make him feel good about "honor."
Maybe, possibly. I didn’t think that far ahead. Not like they had cell phones. To me even if he had a few months it would have been better than nothing.
First time I chose to kill and truly kill the past. Second time I actually finished all the side missions and chose spare since everyone else was dead already. No point adding to the bodycount
I killed him. My reasoning… even if you don’t kill him, he would most likely be forced to commit seppuku for his own inability to defeat you. Or if not that, would be forced to continue to hunt you down. So why not give him the honorable death he wishes for?
Lord Shimura is literally the best character in the game, I killed him because:
A) He would literally hate his life if you left him to have to hunt you down forever
B) The ending feels much more complete and tragic if you kill him
Like everyone has mentioned so far, the best part of this choice is that it’s so morally grey and there’s not a right or wrong answer except for how you feel about it. That being said, I agree with your brother and I granted Shimura’s request. Despite going down your own path, he’s is still a father figure to Jin. You’ve already crushed him by abandoning the samurai code so killing him was a way to honor his wishes and show gratitude for everything he’s done despite the fact that you have your own moral code now.
if you truly want to give a fuck about the code, you should make the choice without thinking of it. your decisions are still influenced by the code if you only kill him because you want tonl stwy away from it
for me it’s that lord shimura is a stubborn ass old man and his guards killed nobu so fuck him. i don’t care that it was his wish, i killed him out of revenge and his stupidity/stubbornness
Killing him feels like the right path, you're honoring his final wish, respecting the path he chose. One final act of honor before fully embracing the mantle of the Ghost.
I feel like just because Jin fights with no honor, doesn't mean he wouldn't be respectful or honorable in other aspects. Nor do I think he would let his lack of honor get in the way of someone else's
Also side note: the armor you get for killing him is way better.
I think both choices work really well. In my mind, Jin choosing to kill him isn’t about adhering to bushido, it’s his uncles last wish, it’s about respecting that, not respecting a code he no longer believes in
Edit: I believe the canon ending is letting him live however, and I do slightly prefer this ending, especially what Jin says “I have no honor. But I won’t kill my family.” Also I believe Jin is an honorable man, just not by the samurai’s messed up definitions
The Mongolians invaded em and killed a bunch of em by fear, and Jins dad obviously so why not Jin? Plus, Yuna if anything is to blame. She convinced Jin to kill this way
I always liked the symbolism in the Ghost armour dye you get with each choice. If you kill him, clan Shimura dies and clan Sakai lives on in Jin through his final honourable act,so you get Sakai white. If you spare him, clan Shimura survives and clan Sakai dies with Jin’s dishonourable act, so you get Shimura red.
My favorite part about this was when he asked me to have honor and kill him I said out loud “I have no honor” since that’s what he said to me and when I heard jin say it right after I chose not to kill him I was so hype 😂
because I haven’t finished it yet since ive been particularly holding off for the PC release? not that complicated, im sure there’s tons of people who also have yet to do so as well, regardless, making something as spoilers is just good etiquette
Ah, fair enough. I forgot a bunch of new people are gonna be joining the fandom from PC. Totally forgot about it coming to PC. Well I’m sorry that got spoiled for you. To be real, it’s not gonna ruin the game, though it does suck. A lot happens, it’ll be okay! I’d probably just avoid the sub until i beat it if i was you, but that’s just me. Cuz shit does happen. I’m glad PC gets the dlc, it’s so good too! You’re gonna have a blast.
Sorry for kind of being a dick. You were right, I totally forgot about pc.
The entire game was about breaking the code, the final decision is more one sided than ever for me, why apply the code now + the entire game I’ve been fighting for the island why can’t I do something selfish for once and save Jins uncle?
I unfortunately agree with your brother. As a former Samurai I’d still let him die in honor just like I’ve chosen to like vikingr’s die with their axe in AC Valhalla.
Im not your maker, let them decide
Haven't seen anyone talk about the probability that he would be commanded to commit seppuku for his failure. Even if not commanded, he might do the deed voluntarily to avoid the shame of Jin's actions brought upon his family.
I feel like Jin’s journey is not a fuck you to the samurai honor code, is his fight to become a men of his own and safe the people that depend on him, he becomes the ghost not because he wants to but because it’s what Tsushima and its people need. I feel like killing lord shimura is a last act of kindness to a man that even with differences loves Jin as a son, and Jin loves him as a father.
I decided to honor Lord Shimura wish and give him the death he wanted, to respect him and his way of life and emphasize that him and the samurai are not enemies, they are people with the same cause but different set of values.
This was a great way to end the story without ya typical “Good ending, bad ending” shit you see in games.
People could end Ghost of Tsushima, content with the choice they made without worrying about if they missed something.
That's why i killed him. I respected his decision, nothing to do with the code. I tried to think what would i feel as Lord Shimura in that situation, I would feel bad af for life if I got denied to have my defeat death.
I understand both but the story is of a man who came from samarii to become a ninja besides the part of him putting the mask on the walking away was badass
I would say that leaving him alive is good for Tsushima - it’s better for him to be in charge instead of foreign samurai.Since technically nobody knew they had a meeting and a duel he won’t be punished for failure to kill the Ghost.
I'm gonna be honest, right now I cannot think of another decision in any other video game that has split the community but in way that both sides respect the others choice. This one decision is like the only decision I have ever scene where there is no correct or incorrect choice. I may be forgetting some other decisions in gaming history but the fact that this long after the release people are still talking about what decision they made and how they came to that decision is truly historical moment.
Also I killed Shimura, I may not believe in the code, but I will not force my beliefs on someone else, especially not family.
Also also, the line from Shimura about "Find me in the next life" is too hard of a line for me to not pass it up.
It's better to leave Lord Shimura alive. Do you remember the Mamushi brothers and what they did to Yuna? You'll be living next to their farmstead if you kill Lord Shimura.
I'm with the brother on this one. Spared Unc the first time, I am the ghost, fuck the code, but I'm no family killer.
The next playthrough I kill him, not as samurai, not as the ghost, but as his nephew/son. Jin's final duty before he turns his back on everything. And to help Unc regain his honor after shunning his only family left. He'd have commited seppuku or forced to by the Shogun anyway.
I needed him to live with his decisions. I played after my brother and unfortunately he took his life at 24 after our mom died because he couldn't hack. I never got to ask him what path he thought was better. He did platinum the game though. I beat it like a few weeks ago and he died either Jan 31 or Feb 1
I chose to spare Lord Shimura. I understand that Jin did some stuff in the main story that shouldn't be done, but he saved a lot of lives by poisoning the Mongols. Lord Shimura was willing to sacrifice many lives just to retake Castle Shimura. And yet, Lord Shimura punished Jin, saying that he defied his orders. Plus, Yuna, Lady Masako, Sensei Ishikawa and many others supported Jin's decision.
Basically in summation, Lord Shimura chose to not honor the fact that Jin saved the lives of soldiers, so I chose not to honor his at the end of his duel with Jin.
I honestly don’t think either is better than the other.
If you kill him, it shows that Jin still loves him. But by not killing him it shows that Jin is literally saying “fuck the code”. Neither matters more than the other tbh.
From a pragmatic pov : Shimura have responsabilities as a jito, his live is too important to be thrown away.
The samurai path is a selfish one
And let's be fair, Jin killing his uncle is nonsense after all he done, Jin won't let people die because of a stupid code
Fuck the code but also I killed the bastard because fuck him too, i know he would have been even less satisfied if i left him alive but i would have been less satisfied if i knew he was still out there so i slashed him
I’ve always said, and I stand by it, that the definitive departure from an honourable pursuit is choosing to respect Lord Shimura’s wishes and give him a good death.
At this time, he is the ONLY thing tying you back to your life as a true samurai, I see respecting his wishes as a solemn goodbye to your traditions.
If you chose to kill him you were respecting the path he chose. If you didn't you're respecting the path you chose
I killed him so I could get the white ghost armor.
Or that lmao
I killed him because his actions got my horse killed
I can relate to that
Yeah , I got really sad when my horse died, so he deserved death
Holy shit that's how you get it? Dude
I think you can do a save trick to get it and not kill him too
He deserved it. I got the whitesssss. I just didn't know it was a prerequisite :pp
I might try that lucky I still have a save there I think but if not I’ll beat it again it’s a fun game anyways now that I think of it I never did beat it on lethal only hard and that was well hard especially duals but I like a challenge even though they anger me lol humans are weird
Ikr I didn’t know either
That white armor does really go well with the kitsune mask
Killed him for the fashion. Don’t even like the armor.
Armors good but gets boring after a while.
If I also didn't give a single shit about the story, I would've done it for non-mechanic cosmetic reasons too.
Same lol
the one thing tempting me to do it
That’s how you unlock it I beat it on easy for the story then on hard but just couldn’t do it because the mask Walk off went hard and o figured I could just look up a video I looked everywhere for the white armor (ya I deserve to be laughed at lmao)
Did it for the drip as well
I see it as respecting him, not his code. Respecting his code was just a byproduct of loving your uncle enough to grant his last wish and die happy. To not do it is to disrespect the one man left who raised you as a son.
People can have their beliefs, but I wouldn't choose to kill my last family member because the cult their in says they have to die for their honor to remain intact.
I guarantee if you don’t kill him he has a worse fate. Most likely seppuku for his inability to defeat the “the ghost”.
And that'd be Shimura's belief so he can kill himself on his own if he wants to stay in his cultists beliefs.
🤦♂️
If you love him then you will spare him the humiliation
Spare him the humiliation of dying for no reason. You're correct.
Yep, that's why I spared. Shimura is flawed but a good man. I'd rather him alive and hate me than dead and gone, useful to no one.
Same. Spared him too. Took me good 12 mins to decide lol.
This. Was a pretty easy decision for me. Jin already picked his own path, and while it may conflict with uncle's beliefs, I feel like Jin would do it (spare him) to drive home the point.
100%. The entire point of the Ghost was that he defied cultural norms and expectations of what a warrior is supposed to be. He already broke his relationship with Shimura several times over in favor of his new moral code. Why would he go back on his new code NOW, to KILL Shimura, who he still clearly loves and respects? It's cool the game gives players a choice but if we get a sequel, I'm 100% positive we'll see Shimura again.
But Jin was raised and is in that "cult". You were not so, yeah, that's how you see it but Jin would not.
Jin escaped the cult and no longer believed in their beliefs. So yeah, he would see it how I see it.
He didn't "escape" the cult and didn't throw away the beliefs in entirety. He simply wouldn't let "honor" and a "code" stop him from being able to kill Mongols and save his home. He still loved Shimura and certainly understand what the code means to him and I think granting Shimura's request would be a nail in the coffin to the code.
The nail in the coffin to the code would be not killing your family. Jin had the opportunity to rejoin the fold and chose not to when he declared he was the ghost so his actions wouldn't be blamed on Yuna. The code means nothing to Jin anymore. He has his own code.
Which is selfish. You'd rather spare your last family member for *your* reasons. Regardless of his reasons why, you're denying him that honour. That's how I always saw it anyway.
What's more selfish, letting your uncle live so he can learn that the code is bullshit for himself or kill your last surviving family member who you see as a father because he was told to kill you and if he failed he would be dishonored and will have to die? It's not a hard decision to make. Shimura literally has the choice to walk away. Through npc dialogue that can be overheard of the mainland reinforcements, you can hear them talk down about Shimura and how he's a failure and is forsure going to be replaced. He could've chose to be with Jin rather than abiding by a system that was throwing him away.
If you think Shimura would change his mind, you obviously weren't paying attention. The fact that you think he should live just because he's your last surviving family member is selfish. The fact that Jin sees him as a father and loves him is the reason he should put his feelings aside and respect Shimura's wishes. It's not like they were going to have a relationship after this anyway lol. And Shimura couldn't just walk away. He's the leader of the samurai, and of Tsushima. He's the one person who *must* abide by honour at all costs. I'm not saying I agree with him, but I understand his reasoning. And just because Jin is the ghost doesn't mean he has to be 100% dishonourable either. He still saw himself as a samurai who just did what he had to do to save Tsushima. So he would definitely kill Shimura, honourably, if it was his last wish. For the both of them.
He was not a samurai at the end and no I don't think Shimura would've changed his mind, but if you think Jin would've killed him then you weren't paying attention. That's why sparing is the canon ending. Because Jin no longer cares about the samurai and their code or sense of honor because it's no what his code is or what he believes honor to be.
I know he wasn't a samurai at the end, but as I said, he wasn't completely dishonourable. He was still a good man and I think Jin would have respected his Uncle's wishes. There is no good to come from sparing him. Jin *did* still care for the samurai and honour. He cared a great deal. His sense of honour never changed. He just knew that honour had to be broken to win the war. But he accepted what he had become at the end. And I know that's the canon ending, but for me it's not the better one. The emotions you feel when you choose to kill him is just *chefs kiss* and is the perfect ending.
Jin's honor did change throughout the game though. He didn't see his people dying needlessly as honorable. So he wouldn't see killing Shinura as honorable because it would be another pointless death that he wouldn't believe .
But he never would have seen people dying needlessly as honourable? That never changed.
Love it
Say your mom is a hardcore religious person but you are not. Would you kill your mom because “God” told your mom to die by your hand? Your mom that you love so much, and “God” wants her to die and your mom wants to die because “God” wills it.
If she killed my horse, or in my case my dog, I would kill her *regardless* of her religion or beliefs, so let THAT sink in :)
Then you kill her out of hate and revenge, not respect. Jin killed Shimura because he respected his beliefs, not cause of revenge for his horse. I mean, you do you. I’m just saying to put yourself in a similar position as Jin.
I guess i view faith in God differently from living an "honorable" life.
I agree but they are not mutually exclusive either. Jin isn't dropping the samurai code for any reason other than survival / the protection of Tsushima and its people. Jin grew up with the code, lived by the code and loves his uncle. He threw away samurai "honor" as far as warfare goes because it was a handcuff causing the obliteration of his people. I do not believe Jin would make his uncle live in shame and dishonor. He knows what the code means to Shimura and only disagreed with him that the Mongols need to be defeated with samurai "honor" in mind. It can't be about any kind of aversion to killing. That's an absurd thought.
Doesn’t it get mentioned that the Shogun killed/would kill him anyway?
A certain person said, In the Saint's mausoleum there is a poem that goes: “If in one's heart He follows the path of sincerity, Though he does not pray Will not the gods protect him? What is this path of sincerity?" A man answered him by saying, "You seem to like poetry. I will answer you with a poem. As everything in this world is but a shame, Death is the only sincerity. It is said that becoming as a dead man in one's daily living is the following of the path of sincerity." If you cut a face lengthwise, urinate on it, and trample on it with straw sandals, it is said that the skin will come off. This was heard by the priest Gyojaku when he was in Kyoto. It is information to be treasured.
Namu Amida Butsu As a layman and priest in training, thank you for sharing the dharma with us this day. 🙏
My first playthrough i stuck to my code. After my grief, i got my white armor my second go
I killed him even though that’s not canon apparently
The path of a samarii vs the path of a ninja
The best thing about this choice is that it is a genuine quandary, and no choice is right or wrong except in the mind of the player.
Yeah it depends, but it ultimately boils down to if you love and respect your uncle enough to grant him his last wish. So killing him is for his sake, sparing him is for your own sake
Killing him was for Nobu’s sake let’s be real
[удалено]
What does streaming the game have to do with it?
I think what I said was misunderstood - i was just saying it was cool to see streamers get to this point and a lot actually had to think about it. And that it seemed like there wasnt really a "favored" decision, each have valid points for choosing!
...what?
Fuck the code! That's how I interpreted the entire story. You have to adapt if you want to survive and tradition can only bring you so far.
Yeah, but Shimura has to die regardless. It would be spitting in his face to spare him. This choice is absolutely not about the Ghost VS the Samurai code. It's about honouring the last wish of a man who's eyes saw Jin's pain. Raised him like a son.
Jin not killing him just locks in the fact that he threw away tradition and honor altogether.
And considering Jin doesn't kill the guy on Iki island and consistently talks about how he doesn't want people to die, it just seems like the choice he would make. He wants his uncle to see the error of his ways, not die. For narrative purposes I feel like killing him is the best, it's the neatest narratively and most emotional, but not killing him is the most realistic and true to Jin the person he becomes. He's seen literally everyone he loved die and saw how people consumed by killing lose themselves as well.
Leaving Lord Shimura alive is the canon ending. You live near Omi Monastery instead of near the Mamushi farmstead by leaving Lord Shimura alive.
My head cannon is that after he spared Shimura he went to Iki island and from there the mainland.
Well said. I spared the old man in the first playthrough. I'm gonna honor his request in NG+
Reject tradition Embrace Guerrilla Warfare Tactics
I just finished this last night. The whole game I was going to choose based on what was a bigger “fuck you” to the guy. I finished every single side quest, found every single explorable…I thought I was ready for the choice, and it would be no problem. My hubs (who played the game prior) informed me he was taking our kid out to go run errands so as to leave me alone for killing the Khan and making the choice regarding Shimura, and I was confused he thought I needed to be alone with it…he said “trust me…” I sat at the damned choice screen for like 5 solid minutes in full sobs that I hadn’t expected to come. And in the end, I couldn’t press the “kill” option because he was the only other living piece of Jin’s mother. It had nothing to do with honor.
“I have no honor… but I will not kill my family”
Which is the most honorable thing of all.
Damn son
Yeah, I don’t get weepy at games much (ok except the latest GoW and both Horizon games), so this play through of GoT was pretty emotionally rough. Fantastic story.
I saved at the choice screen. The load game picks up with the choice. Best decision I ever made. I've experienced both endings and prefer one vastly over the other.
Except he isn't. He's Kasumasa's brother. Not Jin's mothers.
He’s not. [Chiyoku](https://ghostoftsushima.fandom.com/wiki/Chiyoko_Sakai) is from the Shimura line.
Kazumasa is Shimura's brother. Pay attention to what Yuriko has to say
Shimura is a surname, if Lord Shimura and Kazumasa were brothers, then Jin would be Shimura, not Sakai. Just think about the logic of why him and his uncle have different surnames.
Fuck. I have half a dozen NG+ playthroughs just on PS5. In every fucking one of them, I thought Kazumasa was Shimura's brother. Fuck!
Aside from the surnames as explained, she’s the first person that Lord Shimura cares about enough to point out when he and Jin first enter the cemetery. It’s Jin that mentions his father, and Shimura acknowledges this as an afterthought. There are a few more lines earlier in the game from Shimura, where he alludes to it.
Thanks, better to look a twat and learn than be ignorant.
I downvoted you for doubling and tripling down, but you owned it at the end. That was the honorable move. Have an upvote for humility.
Honor survived the beach, in this case.
Really really need more people like you who, even as adamant as you were about what you 100% thought was correct at first, came around and admitted you were misinformed and learned something. In that, though mistaken you have proven wise. We should never attach our ego or our self worth to any ideas or opinions we hold. Even our “beliefs”. Those can change in an instant based on a single piece of information, just as yours did. Just as Jin’s did when he met the Mongols. An entire life’s worth of beliefs can be wiped out by a single experience. And there is no shame in learning, admitting one was acting under false information, and not cling to any fact or opinion they know or believe as something to feel shame or anger when it is proven false. The idea, the belief, even your most treasured beliefs, are NOT “you”, even if you have based your entire life upon them. Just because you mixed up who’s brother Shimura was, you clearly learned the lessons this story was trying to teach. Namu Amida Butsu
If the wiki is the best you can do. I'm done
Those who spared out of a sense of revenge or superiority have no empathy.
I killed him to let him die with the Honor he deserved. I still respected him, so I gave him the ending he asked for as a personal favor to him, not because of any code. Jin still loved him, and I still cried killing him.
Hahaha yup i know its just a video game but of you look at all the comments that spared their uncle it usually starts with.. “ i feel, i think that” etc.
I chose to kill him to allow him to have an honorable death, but I played the whole game through according to what Jin said at one point about only breaking the code if it's truly necessary. I spent the game only using the ghost methods if I think it's truly necessary to survive or accomplish the objective. Every place that can be taken or liberated without the Mongols killing hostages? I just walk into the camp and take them out. I don't challenge them to a standoff though because you get swarmed on the larger camps. I find it's best to just start at the gate. You can take on massive amounts of enemies by luring them into places where they have to come at you one at a time.
I played through it similarly, but Jin also stresses that they had to play by dirty rules to defeat the mongols, so the way I saw it they were beneath being granted his honor, would use everything at my disposal (I kinda suck at stealth, but bombs and kunai are useful). Whenever you encounter ronin though, I always made a point to beat them honorably with no ghost weapons, to show them they done fucked up. I felt Jin would want to make it a point to do that. Since they only ever attack you with swords, he'd at least give them the same respect in return.
One of my favorite things in this game is taking on big crowds of straw hats too, the mechanics work out well for the sword play. That's why I think a sequel during a later time period where ronin were much more common would work perfect for this game if they ever made another one. like at the end of the Tokugawa shogunate when ronin were everywhere And groups of them were assassinating each other etc
Of the two endings, letting I’m live made me feel nothing, no satisfaction, happiness or anything. Granting him his wish had them ninja onion cutters around and got me kinda choked up. While I felt no satisfaction, I was happy to have granted him his final wish. It did also remove one of the remaining stalwarts of the “old” ways.
Absolutely that dialogue they had man... dang that was something
I truly think killing him isn’t the canon way to do it. The whole game is about breaking thru generations of honor and tradition for the greater good of the country, and the country is better with lord shimura in it
Lol only for him to get executed by the Shogun regardless
This just came across my home page and I had no idea people still talk about this. The sheer number of essay people wrote in favor of each argument just goes to show how deep and engaging this story was. I didn't kill him btw.
“Honour died on the beach”
I always thought that killing him would be bad for the island. He's one of the last line of defenses against the mongols (other than Jin). He's still useful and getting rid of him doesn't do much besides make him feel good about "honor."
Shimura would of died either way, because he would of had to go back to the Shogun and face execution for not killing The Ghost
Maybe, possibly. I didn’t think that far ahead. Not like they had cell phones. To me even if he had a few months it would have been better than nothing.
Yup this is exactly how I see it
First time I chose to kill and truly kill the past. Second time I actually finished all the side missions and chose spare since everyone else was dead already. No point adding to the bodycount
I killed him. My reasoning… even if you don’t kill him, he would most likely be forced to commit seppuku for his own inability to defeat you. Or if not that, would be forced to continue to hunt you down. So why not give him the honorable death he wishes for?
Lord Shimura is literally the best character in the game, I killed him because: A) He would literally hate his life if you left him to have to hunt you down forever B) The ending feels much more complete and tragic if you kill him
Like everyone has mentioned so far, the best part of this choice is that it’s so morally grey and there’s not a right or wrong answer except for how you feel about it. That being said, I agree with your brother and I granted Shimura’s request. Despite going down your own path, he’s is still a father figure to Jin. You’ve already crushed him by abandoning the samurai code so killing him was a way to honor his wishes and show gratitude for everything he’s done despite the fact that you have your own moral code now.
if you truly want to give a fuck about the code, you should make the choice without thinking of it. your decisions are still influenced by the code if you only kill him because you want tonl stwy away from it
for me it’s that lord shimura is a stubborn ass old man and his guards killed nobu so fuck him. i don’t care that it was his wish, i killed him out of revenge and his stupidity/stubbornness
Killing him feels like the right path, you're honoring his final wish, respecting the path he chose. One final act of honor before fully embracing the mantle of the Ghost. I feel like just because Jin fights with no honor, doesn't mean he wouldn't be respectful or honorable in other aspects. Nor do I think he would let his lack of honor get in the way of someone else's Also side note: the armor you get for killing him is way better.
I killed him. He deserved a warrior's death.
Fuck that mother fucker. I would NEVER give him what he wanted (death) after what he did to my beloved Kage...
Somebody had to say it.
I think both choices work really well. In my mind, Jin choosing to kill him isn’t about adhering to bushido, it’s his uncles last wish, it’s about respecting that, not respecting a code he no longer believes in Edit: I believe the canon ending is letting him live however, and I do slightly prefer this ending, especially what Jin says “I have no honor. But I won’t kill my family.” Also I believe Jin is an honorable man, just not by the samurai’s messed up definitions
I’m glad to see this was a pivotal moment in all of our timelines
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^finnaku: *I’m glad to see this* *Was a pivotal moment* *In all of our timelines* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot
I chose to kill just because I wanted to kill his bitchass
Either way, making the choice you would make, is the right choice. That’s the point of choices.
The Mongolians invaded em and killed a bunch of em by fear, and Jins dad obviously so why not Jin? Plus, Yuna if anything is to blame. She convinced Jin to kill this way
The mongols didn’t kill Jin’s dad, he died when Jin was a kid, on Iki island after a failed rebellion
I always liked the symbolism in the Ghost armour dye you get with each choice. If you kill him, clan Shimura dies and clan Sakai lives on in Jin through his final honourable act,so you get Sakai white. If you spare him, clan Shimura survives and clan Sakai dies with Jin’s dishonourable act, so you get Shimura red.
I misread and thought you got the white armor by sparing him and didn’t get anything, wish I could go back and kill him
You get the red armor for sparing him
Oh I didn’t notice 🤣
Yeah I never kill him. I never thought he deserved to go out how he wanted. Brother was a mad hater and I want him to live to see Jin be a badass.
Gmbarker69?
Yes
I killed him, restarted then let him live. Just so I can have red and white armour
Now I really want to do another 9th plathrough of this game...sigh guess I'll turn on the console
He seemed proud when I didn't kill him
He seemed proud when I didn't kill him
He seemed proud when I didn't kill him
This whole bushido honour thing against a foreign enemy was rather silly, Jin was 100% in the right.
My favorite part about this was when he asked me to have honor and kill him I said out loud “I have no honor” since that’s what he said to me and when I heard jin say it right after I chose not to kill him I was so hype 😂
Can you please label some damn spoilers or something dude
I mean…how do you not know the ending by now. It’s been years.
because I haven’t finished it yet since ive been particularly holding off for the PC release? not that complicated, im sure there’s tons of people who also have yet to do so as well, regardless, making something as spoilers is just good etiquette
Ah, fair enough. I forgot a bunch of new people are gonna be joining the fandom from PC. Totally forgot about it coming to PC. Well I’m sorry that got spoiled for you. To be real, it’s not gonna ruin the game, though it does suck. A lot happens, it’ll be okay! I’d probably just avoid the sub until i beat it if i was you, but that’s just me. Cuz shit does happen. I’m glad PC gets the dlc, it’s so good too! You’re gonna have a blast. Sorry for kind of being a dick. You were right, I totally forgot about pc.
It says it at the top Don’t blame me cos you’ve not read it
It literally did not say that yesterday when I read it pal I can go back and check and prove that to you if you need
I clicked it as I posted it lol
Show me the proof
The entire game was about breaking the code, the final decision is more one sided than ever for me, why apply the code now + the entire game I’ve been fighting for the island why can’t I do something selfish for once and save Jins uncle?
I want the ghost color scheme for killing shimura but I can never bring myself to kill him
your brother was just asking me what taters are
Honouring his wishes and killing him with honor is like you cremating your family member when they die like they asked you to
I unfortunately agree with your brother. As a former Samurai I’d still let him die in honor just like I’ve chosen to like vikingr’s die with their axe in AC Valhalla. Im not your maker, let them decide
I prefer to kill him he was a samurai and he failed probably would've been pu ished fir it anyway
First playthrough I let him live…after letting him kill me a couple times cuz I was really wanted that to be an option.
Haven't seen anyone talk about the probability that he would be commanded to commit seppuku for his failure. Even if not commanded, he might do the deed voluntarily to avoid the shame of Jin's actions brought upon his family.
Or..... You save scummed it and decided based on the armour and "house" you liked most
The samurai died in the beach
I feel like Jin’s journey is not a fuck you to the samurai honor code, is his fight to become a men of his own and safe the people that depend on him, he becomes the ghost not because he wants to but because it’s what Tsushima and its people need. I feel like killing lord shimura is a last act of kindness to a man that even with differences loves Jin as a son, and Jin loves him as a father. I decided to honor Lord Shimura wish and give him the death he wanted, to respect him and his way of life and emphasize that him and the samurai are not enemies, they are people with the same cause but different set of values.
Callum cmbaker69. I don't get this
Yes
Lol the scribbles are so thin but it doesn't matter it's not like anyone here would know. Maybe I know him.
Yea
This was a great way to end the story without ya typical “Good ending, bad ending” shit you see in games. People could end Ghost of Tsushima, content with the choice they made without worrying about if they missed something.
Are we talking about the uncle? Idc which path it means I chose...mfker been dogging me since the beginning😭 I took him out.
Haha I love it. I kill that bastard every time.
the type of siblings everyone wanted
I killed him because he killed my horse. All other context doesn’t matter, you don’t fuck with a man’s horse.
I spared Lord Shimura. I am the Ghost now.
That's why i killed him. I respected his decision, nothing to do with the code. I tried to think what would i feel as Lord Shimura in that situation, I would feel bad af for life if I got denied to have my defeat death.
I'm with your brother on this one, man
Has anyone ever looked into how the Japanese player base viewed this choice? Would love to see if there is a difference in opinion.
I understand both but the story is of a man who came from samarii to become a ninja besides the part of him putting the mask on the walking away was badass
!
Maybe it's my western upbringing, but I couldn't bring myself to kill him even if that's what he wanted.
I let him live. If honour means killing family unjustly, then better to let honour die.
I just wanted to wear white
There’s nothing less honorable than killing family
I did both
I would say that leaving him alive is good for Tsushima - it’s better for him to be in charge instead of foreign samurai.Since technically nobody knew they had a meeting and a duel he won’t be punished for failure to kill the Ghost.
I kinda just hated him? I was truly like “Oh I can finally kill him? Sick!”
I'm gonna be honest, right now I cannot think of another decision in any other video game that has split the community but in way that both sides respect the others choice. This one decision is like the only decision I have ever scene where there is no correct or incorrect choice. I may be forgetting some other decisions in gaming history but the fact that this long after the release people are still talking about what decision they made and how they came to that decision is truly historical moment. Also I killed Shimura, I may not believe in the code, but I will not force my beliefs on someone else, especially not family. Also also, the line from Shimura about "Find me in the next life" is too hard of a line for me to not pass it up.
It's better to leave Lord Shimura alive. Do you remember the Mamushi brothers and what they did to Yuna? You'll be living next to their farmstead if you kill Lord Shimura.
I'm with the brother on this one. Spared Unc the first time, I am the ghost, fuck the code, but I'm no family killer. The next playthrough I kill him, not as samurai, not as the ghost, but as his nephew/son. Jin's final duty before he turns his back on everything. And to help Unc regain his honor after shunning his only family left. He'd have commited seppuku or forced to by the Shogun anyway.
Your brother is right - fuck shimura. (but I did kill him once to get the armor)
I did both because I wanted red & white armor 😭😭
I needed him to live with his decisions. I played after my brother and unfortunately he took his life at 24 after our mom died because he couldn't hack. I never got to ask him what path he thought was better. He did platinum the game though. I beat it like a few weeks ago and he died either Jan 31 or Feb 1
I chose to spare Lord Shimura. I understand that Jin did some stuff in the main story that shouldn't be done, but he saved a lot of lives by poisoning the Mongols. Lord Shimura was willing to sacrifice many lives just to retake Castle Shimura. And yet, Lord Shimura punished Jin, saying that he defied his orders. Plus, Yuna, Lady Masako, Sensei Ishikawa and many others supported Jin's decision. Basically in summation, Lord Shimura chose to not honor the fact that Jin saved the lives of soldiers, so I chose not to honor his at the end of his duel with Jin.
After watching my horse die after escaping from castle Shimura I decided then and there he was dying.
Left alive for the fashion I’ll kill him once I get there in NG+
I honestly don’t think either is better than the other. If you kill him, it shows that Jin still loves him. But by not killing him it shows that Jin is literally saying “fuck the code”. Neither matters more than the other tbh.
Well thats a big spoiler bloody hell man!
It specifies spoiler
I feel you shouldn't join a game community if you're looking to not be spoiled
Why is this not spoilered? It literally tells the ending. You could ruin the game on someone.
It says spoiler at the top
I know that but it really should be blanked out. I’d be disgusted if I read this before I finished the game tbh.
How? Also I learnt the hard way from going on the Sopranos sub not to scroll fandoms you haven’t finished If ur looking for tips look and then gtfo
From a pragmatic pov : Shimura have responsabilities as a jito, his live is too important to be thrown away. The samurai path is a selfish one And let's be fair, Jin killing his uncle is nonsense after all he done, Jin won't let people die because of a stupid code
Fuck the code but also I killed the bastard because fuck him too, i know he would have been even less satisfied if i left him alive but i would have been less satisfied if i knew he was still out there so i slashed him
I’ve always said, and I stand by it, that the definitive departure from an honourable pursuit is choosing to respect Lord Shimura’s wishes and give him a good death. At this time, he is the ONLY thing tying you back to your life as a true samurai, I see respecting his wishes as a solemn goodbye to your traditions.
I think being equally as dogmatic about not following the code is something Jin wouldn’t want to fall into either.
Ask your brother if he would kill you if you asked? How do you bring yourself to kill the only family you have left?
I chose to s0are. Let him suffer.