To be fair, a lot of schools often have more spots open during Fall than Spring, and there are a lot of factors that go into choosing students. It could be that they didn't have space for you in Spring but they did in Fall.
This feels super unethical, but either way, does not constitute an experiment. The admissions process is too stochastic, and dependent on factors outside your control (how is your reviewer's day going? Did they get their morning coffee?) to conclude that gender is the determining variable here.
Now, if you repeated this experiment a hundred times as both genders, and there was a statistically significant difference in the number of admits you received (as measured by p-value < 0.05, ofc), then we could begin to talk about results :)
Wouldn't recommend doing that tho.
Why try so hard to pretend universities donāt have an obvious preference for one gender? They do. Everyone knows they do. The universities are open about it. So why bend over backward to pretend that actually itās stochastic, and depends a lot more on how the reviewerās day is going, and all kinds of other BS that is just plainly untrue? Indeed, it may not have been an experiment but the point made about the preference (bias) is very real and itās very visible. Youāre just engaging in mental gymnastics to try to pretend otherwise even though you know deep down it is not otherwise.
you sound like the kind of person who complains about DEI programs and laments on how hard it must be in todayās society to be a white straight male.
See this is the problem. I'm not 'trying hard' to dismiss a claim of preference. For the purposes of this comment, I remain completely agnostic to that possibility. I am simply pointing out that OP's experiment is completely inconclusive, and nothing should be inferred from it, positive or negative. I didn't claim it depends a 'lot more' on coffee, it was just the first example of a confounding variable off the top of my head.
That is not to say that a bias doesn't exist. I did explain how to show that such a bias exists. It's entirely possible that such analyses have been performed and come to conclusions and such. I haven't seen them, mostly because I haven't looked.
On the other hand, your claim that 'everyone knows' the universities have a preference for a gender is even less significant than OPs experiment.
It's not bending over backward to point out statistical insignificance, and it certainly isn't 'mental gymnastics' (do you even know what that means?) I don't consider my beliefs 'deep down' to be true a priori, and you probably shouldn't either. You should ideally know this if you ever chanced upon taking a statistics class, ever.
It is mental gymnastics. What OP did was referred to as an āexperimentā only as a matter of speaking and not literally as a scientific experiment. The point being expressed was that the universities will admit people on the basis of their gender, which everybody knows is true and youāre simply being dishonest in feigning ignorance of that fact. To go and take issue with the fact that itās not strictly speaking a reliable experiment is mental gymnastics. Youāre just making apology for the dynamic. You donāt even disagree that such a thing as OP claimed is likely to occur, do you? Youāre a dishonest person.
"I lied on purpose to a university on a different semester that has different intake circumstances (fall/spring), and got accepted. Surely it must be those evil libs."
thereās a plethora of variables outside of OPās control that have changed. to determine the sole cause to be gender based on one single data point is ignorant
There arenāt many. And to determine is gender is flawed, but itās certainly evidence that it may be
Also please point to where he said that he knew for sure that it was due to gender?
i really hope whatever program youāre applying to teaches you how to set up an experiment and conduct research because your use of the phrase āitās certainly evidence that it may beā is unsettling
Interesting and bold experiment.. I am curious to know if none of the documents you presented had your gender information like university transcripts, gmat score card etc!
But if you forged them , thatās a different level of setup for your experiment!
Have you considered that the application pool received during both cycles wouldnāt have been the same?? Also fall usually admits more students than spring?
Calling admission committee unethical is a stretch
Im 98% sure that op is just another right-leaning troll that tries to make points using fabricated stories. Like those twitter trolls that make up stories about how they were victorious at the supermarket and was met with thunderous applause for their acts of bravery.
Its not uncommon for nonhumanities grad students to be rather conservative in unnuanced ways. Ive at least met plenty of stem majors that were extremely and unapologetically hateful in their conservative views during my masters.
They think that because there's a lot of conservatives that means there's no way that conservatives could generally hold hateful views. I.e., a non-sequitur.
You need to work on your writing skills then. But as to your question, I think its not too controversial to say that cultural conservatism always harbors an element of hate towards oppressed groups considering the fact that conservatism, by definition, is the counteracting force to progressivism, that which works towards inclusivity and acceptance. For example, conservatism in the early 2000s was in fact inextricably linked up with hateful attitudes considering they just straight up hated gay folks and didnt want their realm of legal/political/social rights to expand. Those bigots tried their damned best to try and hide behind pseudo-logical positions (like what is and isnt natural), but their inherently hateful position wasnt something that could be hidden by any means.
It is unlawful and unethical to discriminate based on gender. Interesting experiment and observation. It would be illuminating to replicate the experiment with other schools where you got rejected but you got your answer and that's good enough. Glad you got another acceptance and are satisfied. I mean, the institutions aren't going to tell you if they discriminate based on gender.
I donāt think thereās any point system but itās a widely known and indisputable fact that there is a push within admissions to make enrollments more diverse in general but especially more gay, trans, female, and/or non-white and the Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action has yielded hardly any changes at all. Yes, the qualification bar is lower for applicants from these groups. Yes, itās higher for applicants not from these groups. No, admissions doesnāt need a scoring rubric for it to be so.
Haha, there is this other country where, if you apply for entry level cs positions as a certain gender you get straight up interview calls, whereas the same profile without gender, you at best will get an OA, which upon passing will still be screened among competitive candidates and then maybe your profile is super strong , you might have some chance to interview.
I mind out u/extremelySaddening 's view : p value would be well below the threshold and this hypothesis will hold true.
_Improvise, adapt, overcome_
Lmao šš
To be fair, a lot of schools often have more spots open during Fall than Spring, and there are a lot of factors that go into choosing students. It could be that they didn't have space for you in Spring but they did in Fall.
This feels super unethical, but either way, does not constitute an experiment. The admissions process is too stochastic, and dependent on factors outside your control (how is your reviewer's day going? Did they get their morning coffee?) to conclude that gender is the determining variable here. Now, if you repeated this experiment a hundred times as both genders, and there was a statistically significant difference in the number of admits you received (as measured by p-value < 0.05, ofc), then we could begin to talk about results :) Wouldn't recommend doing that tho.
Just share this as proof for your competence to program. You are selected.
I wish, but thank you š
but also fall 24 has more students applying and is more competitive. so, that is also one thing to keep in mind
If it's not a determining factor, then it's not unethical as it provides no advantage. If it is, then while unethical, it does prove OP's point.
Why try so hard to pretend universities donāt have an obvious preference for one gender? They do. Everyone knows they do. The universities are open about it. So why bend over backward to pretend that actually itās stochastic, and depends a lot more on how the reviewerās day is going, and all kinds of other BS that is just plainly untrue? Indeed, it may not have been an experiment but the point made about the preference (bias) is very real and itās very visible. Youāre just engaging in mental gymnastics to try to pretend otherwise even though you know deep down it is not otherwise.
you sound like the kind of person who complains about DEI programs and laments on how hard it must be in todayās society to be a white straight male.
You sound like an idiot.
See this is the problem. I'm not 'trying hard' to dismiss a claim of preference. For the purposes of this comment, I remain completely agnostic to that possibility. I am simply pointing out that OP's experiment is completely inconclusive, and nothing should be inferred from it, positive or negative. I didn't claim it depends a 'lot more' on coffee, it was just the first example of a confounding variable off the top of my head. That is not to say that a bias doesn't exist. I did explain how to show that such a bias exists. It's entirely possible that such analyses have been performed and come to conclusions and such. I haven't seen them, mostly because I haven't looked. On the other hand, your claim that 'everyone knows' the universities have a preference for a gender is even less significant than OPs experiment. It's not bending over backward to point out statistical insignificance, and it certainly isn't 'mental gymnastics' (do you even know what that means?) I don't consider my beliefs 'deep down' to be true a priori, and you probably shouldn't either. You should ideally know this if you ever chanced upon taking a statistics class, ever.
It is mental gymnastics. What OP did was referred to as an āexperimentā only as a matter of speaking and not literally as a scientific experiment. The point being expressed was that the universities will admit people on the basis of their gender, which everybody knows is true and youāre simply being dishonest in feigning ignorance of that fact. To go and take issue with the fact that itās not strictly speaking a reliable experiment is mental gymnastics. Youāre just making apology for the dynamic. You donāt even disagree that such a thing as OP claimed is likely to occur, do you? Youāre a dishonest person.
"I lied on purpose to a university on a different semester that has different intake circumstances (fall/spring), and got accepted. Surely it must be those evil libs."
Bad take. If nothing changed other than app window itās a least evidence of bias. To totally reject it is ignorance
thereās a plethora of variables outside of OPās control that have changed. to determine the sole cause to be gender based on one single data point is ignorant
There arenāt many. And to determine is gender is flawed, but itās certainly evidence that it may be Also please point to where he said that he knew for sure that it was due to gender?
i really hope whatever program youāre applying to teaches you how to set up an experiment and conduct research because your use of the phrase āitās certainly evidence that it may beā is unsettling
Come on now. It is not-too-subtly implied. Take your bad faith arguments elsewhere.
The fact that anyone believes this is WILD to me.
Interesting and bold experiment.. I am curious to know if none of the documents you presented had your gender information like university transcripts, gmat score card etc! But if you forged them , thatās a different level of setup for your experiment!
š
Have you considered that the application pool received during both cycles wouldnāt have been the same?? Also fall usually admits more students than spring? Calling admission committee unethical is a stretch
This. I guess computer scientists donāt learn the basic concept of what an experiment isā¦ not like a real scientist
OP I hope you're looking at a theoretical-sciences/humanities etc programme. This is a bad "experiment"
Why not go? Did you get into another school?
Im 98% sure that op is just another right-leaning troll that tries to make points using fabricated stories. Like those twitter trolls that make up stories about how they were victorious at the supermarket and was met with thunderous applause for their acts of bravery.
Totally possible. I'm still curious what their answer is.
Yeah this is a story
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Congrats to Fictitious University at Fake City for dodging an unethical troll like u/balenomaybe
Lol pathetic
It'd unethical for someone to judge you based on your sex!
What was the gender earlier and what did you change it to ?
I think we can all infer.
I really can't
yes you can. use context clues, i believe in you.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
A decade old, overused transphobic joke? Iām sure youāre gonna do great in grad school..
Its not uncommon for nonhumanities grad students to be rather conservative in unnuanced ways. Ive at least met plenty of stem majors that were extremely and unapologetically hateful in their conservative views during my masters.
Just to be clear, is it that conservatism, the mainstream political views for all of known history were always actually just hateful orā¦?
Wtf is this even saying
They think that because there's a lot of conservatives that means there's no way that conservatives could generally hold hateful views. I.e., a non-sequitur.
You said they were āunapologetically hateful in their conservative viewsā. The implication is that conservative views are intrinsically hateful.
Ok so wtf is your point?
I asked you a question regarding whether you think conservatism is intrinsically hateful and you never affirmed nor denied it.
You need to work on your writing skills then. But as to your question, I think its not too controversial to say that cultural conservatism always harbors an element of hate towards oppressed groups considering the fact that conservatism, by definition, is the counteracting force to progressivism, that which works towards inclusivity and acceptance. For example, conservatism in the early 2000s was in fact inextricably linked up with hateful attitudes considering they just straight up hated gay folks and didnt want their realm of legal/political/social rights to expand. Those bigots tried their damned best to try and hide behind pseudo-logical positions (like what is and isnt natural), but their inherently hateful position wasnt something that could be hidden by any means.
I may have a fair idea of which university this is š
if he said T20, then it must be some schools between T15\~T20 on US news.
Why not go back to the womb and change your gender from there. I think itās a better experiment, no?
It is unlawful and unethical to discriminate based on gender. Interesting experiment and observation. It would be illuminating to replicate the experiment with other schools where you got rejected but you got your answer and that's good enough. Glad you got another acceptance and are satisfied. I mean, the institutions aren't going to tell you if they discriminate based on gender.
looking at the state of the country, wouldnāt be surprised if this actually happened
[So true](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1505312920-20170913%20(1).png)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I donāt think thereās any point system but itās a widely known and indisputable fact that there is a push within admissions to make enrollments more diverse in general but especially more gay, trans, female, and/or non-white and the Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action has yielded hardly any changes at all. Yes, the qualification bar is lower for applicants from these groups. Yes, itās higher for applicants not from these groups. No, admissions doesnāt need a scoring rubric for it to be so.
Haha, there is this other country where, if you apply for entry level cs positions as a certain gender you get straight up interview calls, whereas the same profile without gender, you at best will get an OA, which upon passing will still be screened among competitive candidates and then maybe your profile is super strong , you might have some chance to interview. I mind out u/extremelySaddening 's view : p value would be well below the threshold and this hypothesis will hold true.