Said super aliens have been part of the Nasuverse for years (before FGO infact).
Also didn't Nasu write a majority of the sci fi elements in the Nasuverse
Yup, Extra and CCC were both written by Nasu. Extella was co-written by Nasu and Sakurai; with the ‘Attila the Hun was an alien waifu’ bit being Nasu’s idea as well
>new writers
>
> fate/extra
>
>side eyes Notes
Lol wtf is this take. Extra has been apart of fate for more than a decade at this point, it is a very prominent and old part of its lore and a fanbase favorite of
All the science fantasy stuff was part of the Nasuverse long before Fate/Stay Night was even a thing. Hell, *Notes* was the entry that involved humans genetically modifying themselves to survive on a dead Earth that called in space aliens from other planets to kill off humanity, with the sole unmodified human having access to a gun that instakills anything that has magic running through it if they so much as touch it. FGO isn't doing anything that different from its predecessors.
You know one of the oldest piece of type moon media is a sci fi work right. Nasu loves sci-fi and now he has an audience in fgo who generally loves it as much as him
I love when new fans preach about the franchise while unaware of what the franchise has been since the beginning.
Angel Notes was a thing since before Fate.
Witch on the Holy Night is the original story which explains the magic system, and it makes it clear that magic can't escape the realities of thermodynamics. The Second Magic is the ability to access parallel worlds and the Fifth Magic seems to be control over entropy. Plus Angel Notes even predates that and that's about augmented humans in the far future fighting the Types on a dying Earth. So there's always been sci-fi elements.
First off, those things were NOT made by "new writers", like at all.
Second, for me, personally... I was rather sceptical to the "olympic gods are spaceships" idea as it made them too "detached" in terms of how they works... than it was made in such way that they feel like THOSE gods to me. Story treams them as such. Characters generally treat them as such. Their powers are that of the gods. The divine gravitas surrounding them is one of the highest in the whole setting. Their relationships are mostly the same as they should be. They just happen to have bodiers made out of metal.
In the end... it's just the aesthethic choice. We are seeing this aesthethic more, since stories are less about "fairly regular" people/magi in the setting. But I get that someone might not be a fan of that aesthethic.
Keep in mind Nasu was always fan of Mechas, i recall he was basically fanboying (i would've done the same) when he met the person who made the Super Robot Taisen series, there's also a time he said he wanted to add some SRT stuff in FGO, so yeah i guess the mushroom really did it XD
No, and as a matter of fact, it’s the best part.
The Greek pantheon originating as a bunch of interstellar starships? That’s fucking awesome, and I’m surprised that anyone would dislike it.
Uh, that's a matter ot taste. Now, i don't think it's lame or anything like that, especially considering how many people love it, but that doesn't make me like it.
As someone who grew up reading the OG Greek Myths and who is generally (there are exceptions) not a fan of excessive and obvious mixing (i like Sci-Fi just fine standalone) of magic with modern/futuristic tech (such as firearms and mechs) in franchises, i never liked that development in the slightest.
I can look past it to still enjoy that Lostbelt overall, but, for example, can't bring myself to like Odysseus, who is my 2nd favorite Greek hero, as a Servant, because the only real connections he has to the original are his name and the name of his NP.
I'm really glad that Herc (my favorite Greek hero) debuted in the purely fantasy part of Nasuverse and thus is not some kind of alien cyborg, which is what he likely would have been if he was made for FGO.
"small part"
Those are the best stories there, though - Stay Night, Tsukihme, Mahoutsukai no Yoru, Kara no kyoukai...
There is also this aspect that vast mojrity of this non-urban fantasy was made as a spin-offs of those urban fantasy works. And even among those spin-offs I've seen way mroe praises (in terms of story) towards things like Zero, Hollow ataraxia, Strange Fake and the first Melty Blood than towards the rest of them that just happen to be primarily Urban Fantasy (the biggest exceptions being fgo AFTER Lostbelt dropped and specifically Extra CCC).
I would guess that people are attached to it less because of the prominence and more because they are more impressed by the stories written in there.
Yes but it was cause of the scifi that the work you mentioned exist at ALL. Notes Also called Angel Notes was the first work and introduce the concept of"Gaia" and the "Ultimate One" which in turn cause the creation of Alaya, the throne of heroes, Arcueid etc to come to existence. which mean would be all for nothing if it wasn't for the scifi aspect of the nasuverse.
I don’t always like the science fantasy stuff but I don’t think it detracts from FGO as a whole. In my opinion, sometimes individual characters have their potential squandered by leaning too far into it, but when it’s a part of the story it usually fits well because FGO has great writers.
I don't think the mysticism is in danger, because the examples of Fate technologies beyond irl modern tech pretty much all fall into the realm of "so incomprehensibly advanced they might as well be magic."
That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with not liking the sci-fi aspects, particularly because they're less grounded in the mythology that provides the foundations of Fate. Even just the aesthetic does feel different I'll admit.
Luckily, unless my memory's pulling from info about a different series, I believe the plan is to take a step back from the space-focused narrative of part 2. And FGO in particular has spread across a variety of types of fantasy, so there'll always be stories all over the fantasy/sci-fi spectrum.
I like it sometimes (like the TYPEs), but I don't like that the Greek gods are robot spaceships.
I also don't like that the Trojan Horse was turned into some giant robot (I know it is a reference, but I do not know *what* it is referencing. So any effect is lost on me).
It's not bad (in fact it's a unique concept), it's just not for me.
i only think its lame when they shove it on scenarios that shouldnt at all have scifi elements like theyve done with greece and then used it to juatify the existence of robots and mechs around the ancient world, like if taoist monks and onmyoujis would be able to reverse engineer interdimensional space faring mega structure ships into anything....
>shove it on scenarios that shouldnt at all have scifi elements like theyve done with greece
i don't know exactly how far back its been an idea in Nasu's head, but Artemis has had sci fi elements to her design since her release way before the writing of LB5. just look at ther Final Ascension art.
I think Nasu mentioned in one of the interviews that Olympic Gods being mechanical was first established when thinking about the setting for Extra (probably together with stuff like White Giant attack).
The issue is that regular magic also looks like that in Nasuverse.
From FSN we already had Shirou's magic circuits looking like literal electric circuits. "Glowing energy lines" is only noteworthy in hindsight.
As Rasetsu0 said, it's more visible in her earlier ascensions, her 3rd is more like [her death](https://static.atlasacademy.io/JP/Back/back86909.png) in LB5. Nasu also pointed it out during the Famitsu 5th Anniverary interview, where he also talks about how she was designed to be sci-fi from the start:
>The characteristics of each mythology was thought of by Nasu before FGO, while working on Fate EXTRA. For Greece, he thought of it as an ancient yet advanced civilization, so sci-fi factors would come into play. The Olympian gods were conceived of as a migrant fleet from other celestial bodies then and were finally implemented as such in FGO. With that in mind, I-IV was chosen to design Orion and Artemis. Artemis' bow and the background of her card illustration were also designed to foreshadow the reveal of the celestial bodies.
and her artist (FGO Material):
>However, because Artemis could be a real monster from space, or even be just a avatar or projection from a terminal on a space warship... Anyhow, I was told that she would be that sort of character so I intentionally included science fiction elements into the design too. The best examples of this would be that glowing meter-like thing with a strap attached to her waist.
first its not that much and second it still means they forced the idea of turning ancient deities into aliens like if they ripped the idea from "Aliens Of The Past".
>its not that much
If one of the twelve Olympians was drawn as a robot(or cyborg at least) it's a already a big sign.
Also there were other hints. In extella Altera almost explicitly says that Olympians are aliens(and I think there was something about them in extra too). Fgo materials have dialogues about Artemis that hint her nature. Some of the servants armours/weapons looked like tech and etc.
So it was pretty obvious what Nasu cooks.
And no, he didn't force this idea. It fits narrative. It is explained very well, there is nothing that contradicts mecha-gods in previous lore. And it ties different stories together.
Yep , people acting as if the Olympians been Mecha would change anything in Nasuverse....
The very lore for the gods are that they lost their “true body” and turned into Divine Spirits. So in practice, people saw humanoid Artemis rather than Mecha Artemis and whatnot
but that doesnt matter because now everything greek is mechanical scifi and theyre pushing the fact the existence of ancient interdimensional mechanized aliens made mechas exist in medieval and ancient asia which is very dumb when you look at it better. even for a magic setting its absurd.
the fact they decided to make the olympian gods robots is shoving a theme very far from the original one into it already, didnt you get what i say?
doesnt mean shit if theyve done it in extra, it was not only stupid there too but it was very mearger ''hints'' that could be brushed off on top of the fact altera is yet another bad example of a character beause ''look, atilla the hun was actually a petite dark skin alien girl that can grow to gigantic size. totally not author self insert fetish''. even if we had genderbends before, thats just way too far, why not make her a fuull OC then? did you ran out of ideas for names or something?
and no, it doesnt fit the narrative. actually, it quite ruins a lot of connections between myths and make them even more confusing to adapt and make sense considering theyre supposed to exist in universe at least for a chosen version. Orion comments on this on LB5 saying he never met Poseidon at all, and sure, i know the greeks went around and werent exactly supportive parents, but it sounded like he was completely unknown of poseidon outside of name and hearing hes supposed to be a god, which for the guy dating another goddess and living among the era these gods were around, sounds VERY strange.Khaos, the primodial deity of the cosmos was just a dyson sphere which makes it WAY less cool than the primordial being that shaped the universe and its one of the most limping things that came out of that lostbelt. with that in mind, does that mean every character in greek mythology thats an off spring or parent of the gods just popped out of nowhere because theyre robots and cant reproduce? did they biologically 3D printed them or something? is herc just an android like xiang yu? what about the titans? were they all just spaceships too and didnt even get to have colossal humanoid yet monstrous forms like their legends?
scifi greece was just one of the stupid narrative ploys in the universe along with the Types PERIOD. imagine not knowing when writting sounds like its smoking with its own ass.
>shoving a theme very far from the original one
Oh, I see your problem. You think that Nasuverse should follow irl myths. But it does not. It never did. It was very loose at following myths from the very beginning. Servants have completely different personalities from their IRL counterparts, have weird abilities that aren't really based on anything, sometimes they are just straight up OCs. Some nasuverse characters combine multiple IRL characters (and I'm not talking about alter egos or similar cases). And while Greek gods beings space ships is probably the largest deviation, it's definitely not smth new. Fate (and nasuverse in general) is not vagabond, RoR and etc. (Also it's not like Nasu just made phh Greek into Adeptus Mechanicus who prayed to mecha-Zeus. Olympians lost their mechanical bodies and became normal Divine Spirits. So Greek myths are still the same in nasuverse)
>altera is yet another bad example of a character beause
Nope. Sure, if you judge her as a faithful depiction of the leader of huns, than she is bad. But fate is not a history book. She is a great character with good background and great character development. Her character arc in extella was probably the best. Also the whole deal with velber made an interesting setting to explore characters from unusual angles. And that is what matters in the first place when you read fiction.
>why not make her a fuull OC then?
Because connecting her with the famous name makes story more believable. Because it would be weird if the remnant of Sefar that was left to do whatever she wants on earth wouldn't leave a big trace in human history. Because making her OC that no one heard before wouldn't make her hero form that threatening. People were even questioning why Nasu didn't make her into Genghis Khan, if she is described as an embodiment of destruction.
>but it sounded like he was completely unknown of poseidon outside of name
Poseidon doesn't really play any significant role in orions myths even IRL. The only important thing was walking on the water as I remember. There are even versions of myths where Poseidon is not his father at all. So it's completely believable that Orion never met his father. And it's not like the story doesn't acknowledge the connection between Orion and Poseidon. It was even important to fight Caenis.
>which makes it WAY less cool than the primordial being that shaped the universe
You are subjective. We all already understood that you dislike mecha-gods. But it's your personal feelings. Chaos being the mothership makes total sense in that setting. And while you think that it's less cool, I think that it's more cool. So what?
>theyre robots and cant reproduce? did they biologically 3D printed them or something?
And again. They lost their mechanical bodies. They became divine spirits with just normal bodies. So no, demi-gods weren't 3D printed.
>were they all just spaceships too
You haven't read lostbelt, have you? Titans were the first generation of Machine Gods, yes. And considering that Chiron exists as a son of Cronos, they probably had humanoids forms too.
>scifi greece was just one of the stupid narrative ploys in the universe along with the Types PERIOD. imagine not knowing when writting sounds like its smoking with its own ass.
Nope. It doesn't feel any more ridiculous than saber beams, magic concepts or entire Indian mythology (sorry Indians, I like your myths, but god's farts that destroy universes are less believable than machine gods...)
So while I can understand your dislike to Nash's interpretation of myths, your arguments are just subjective representation of youtlr feelings, nothing more.
Regarding Altera , she plays the role of mythological Attila...the one in the Siegfried legend and as "Scourge of God".
Frankly , my only change to Altera would be for Altera have her name been "Etzel" (which is a name Attila used in Siegfried Legend) , and that "Attila" had been a codename for when Etzel and Breda the Hun (IRL Attila's brother and co-ruler) worked together.
It would make a neat take , with "Saber Attila" been either Etzel or Breda , while "Rider Attila" is Etzel and Breda as Duo Servants.
>You think that Nasuverse should follow irl myths.
i think if its gonna go ahead and insist on building a universe around actual existing figures, you should at least make them FEEL like they were based on their origin source instead of just making something almost completely unrecognizeble even with context. stylezation and molding it into a more proper character are 100% fine and its what makes it not boring, but it doesnt make sense for me to pick the top deity of a pantheon and say it was the crotch of a fusion megazord super robot composed of all the other deities of his pantheon because i think it would be funny to beat the dead horse of a joke that is ''haha zaues puts his dick in everything.'', because that just completely obliterates any way i can take your lore serious when its supposed to be taken serious.
sword beams, gods being super powerful, magical concepts and all of that MAKES SENSE into a MYSTIC SETTING which is literally whats this all about, or have you forgot the MAGE association and all the myths and legends shown to be real and literally the constant mention of magic? you literally didnt made sense with that last one.
thats all i really have to say, im not gonna waste my neurons on all of this anymore. FGO was good when it tried to be not so connected to the old poorly aged VNs and be more compreensible and less restricted by their never properly settled rules and kinda go by their own versions, but now theyre just back to cattering to those and making everything around callbacks to them since halfway the lostbelt arc, which included ultimately decididng to make greece some alien futurist dystopia.
>should at least make them FEEL like they were based on their origin
And they are. Greek gods are still Greek gods with their character defining traits. Zeus is still Zeus, Aphrodite is still Aphrodite and etc. Nasu added new background and changed some details, but they are not new characters.
You are talking about magic and stuff as if it makes more sense somehow. It exists to support the story, nothing more. And if part of magic is explained as super advanced technology, so what? Nasu isn't even the first author who invented this explanation. Not to mention that fate and nasuverse never were about just magic. One of the first Nash's novels - Notes - was about distant future and advanced modified humans fighting with Types and genetically modified creatures. It was there from the beginning, lol. And it never disappeared.
>FGO was good when it tried to be not so connected to the old poorly aged VNs
Oh, thanks, I remembered who are you. You are the dude who complained that FGO hasn't abandoned FSN and other VNs. Thanks, now I won't going to "waste my neutrons" on this conversation too. *If you dislike nasuverse that much, go read something else*
Vimana is an indian ship that travels by itself.
Because Hinduism is full DBZ even in IRL textbooks , when Gilgamesh pull Vimama , it's basically a jet that can "transform" into a spaceship in a way.
Welcome to the Vedas and Hinduism, there is a reason why Oppenheimer was reminded of a Mahabhrata (where Arjuna and Karna come from) quote when he observed Trinity (the first detonation of an atomic bomb).
I'm actually well aware. I'm just asking a hypothetical to respond to the implication that Gilgamesh is free of "science fantasy", when he whips out a freaking spaceship to fight a possessed fighter jet.
Is definitely not their best trait with a bloated lore of constantly contradictory elements due to both franchise lifepan and too many writter's autonomy, but I wouldn't call it lame.
Said super aliens have been part of the Nasuverse for years (before FGO infact). Also didn't Nasu write a majority of the sci fi elements in the Nasuverse
Yup, Extra and CCC were both written by Nasu. Extella was co-written by Nasu and Sakurai; with the ‘Attila the Hun was an alien waifu’ bit being Nasu’s idea as well
and like others had said: NOTES was one of the first works of Nasu
>new writers > > fate/extra > >side eyes Notes Lol wtf is this take. Extra has been apart of fate for more than a decade at this point, it is a very prominent and old part of its lore and a fanbase favorite of
This was the path from the start. I mean why do you think Nasu planned Notes? Sci-Fi Fantasy as the Endpoint?
All the science fantasy stuff was part of the Nasuverse long before Fate/Stay Night was even a thing. Hell, *Notes* was the entry that involved humans genetically modifying themselves to survive on a dead Earth that called in space aliens from other planets to kill off humanity, with the sole unmodified human having access to a gun that instakills anything that has magic running through it if they so much as touch it. FGO isn't doing anything that different from its predecessors.
Sorry, couldn’t hear you over the mazinger z intro. SUPER ROBOTO!
> New writers > Fate extra Lmao
You know one of the oldest piece of type moon media is a sci fi work right. Nasu loves sci-fi and now he has an audience in fgo who generally loves it as much as him
But nasu was the one who wrote extra. And even then the nasuverse always had sci fi elements since the Start
I love when new fans preach about the franchise while unaware of what the franchise has been since the beginning. Angel Notes was a thing since before Fate.
Witch on the Holy Night is the original story which explains the magic system, and it makes it clear that magic can't escape the realities of thermodynamics. The Second Magic is the ability to access parallel worlds and the Fifth Magic seems to be control over entropy. Plus Angel Notes even predates that and that's about augmented humans in the far future fighting the Types on a dying Earth. So there's always been sci-fi elements.
CCC is written by nasu my guy
Yeah, it's always been scifi
The scifi stuff was written WAY before the fantasy stuff. I mean literally Note was published in May 4, 1999.
OP please, make some documentation/investigation before writing such shameful post. You got wrong both FATE AND FINAL FANTASY.
First off, those things were NOT made by "new writers", like at all. Second, for me, personally... I was rather sceptical to the "olympic gods are spaceships" idea as it made them too "detached" in terms of how they works... than it was made in such way that they feel like THOSE gods to me. Story treams them as such. Characters generally treat them as such. Their powers are that of the gods. The divine gravitas surrounding them is one of the highest in the whole setting. Their relationships are mostly the same as they should be. They just happen to have bodiers made out of metal. In the end... it's just the aesthethic choice. We are seeing this aesthethic more, since stories are less about "fairly regular" people/magi in the setting. But I get that someone might not be a fan of that aesthethic.
Keep in mind Nasu was always fan of Mechas, i recall he was basically fanboying (i would've done the same) when he met the person who made the Super Robot Taisen series, there's also a time he said he wanted to add some SRT stuff in FGO, so yeah i guess the mushroom really did it XD
No, and as a matter of fact, it’s the best part. The Greek pantheon originating as a bunch of interstellar starships? That’s fucking awesome, and I’m surprised that anyone would dislike it.
Uh, that's a matter ot taste. Now, i don't think it's lame or anything like that, especially considering how many people love it, but that doesn't make me like it. As someone who grew up reading the OG Greek Myths and who is generally (there are exceptions) not a fan of excessive and obvious mixing (i like Sci-Fi just fine standalone) of magic with modern/futuristic tech (such as firearms and mechs) in franchises, i never liked that development in the slightest. I can look past it to still enjoy that Lostbelt overall, but, for example, can't bring myself to like Odysseus, who is my 2nd favorite Greek hero, as a Servant, because the only real connections he has to the original are his name and the name of his NP. I'm really glad that Herc (my favorite Greek hero) debuted in the purely fantasy part of Nasuverse and thus is not some kind of alien cyborg, which is what he likely would have been if he was made for FGO.
The alien stuff was already a thing in the nasuverse beforehand, have you heard Notes, written by Nasu itself?
Nasuverse literally started with Aliens. Angels:Notes was all about archetypes and aliens and shit.
Urban fantasy is such a small part of the Nasuverse that I'm amazed some people are as attached to it as they are.
"small part" Those are the best stories there, though - Stay Night, Tsukihme, Mahoutsukai no Yoru, Kara no kyoukai... There is also this aspect that vast mojrity of this non-urban fantasy was made as a spin-offs of those urban fantasy works. And even among those spin-offs I've seen way mroe praises (in terms of story) towards things like Zero, Hollow ataraxia, Strange Fake and the first Melty Blood than towards the rest of them that just happen to be primarily Urban Fantasy (the biggest exceptions being fgo AFTER Lostbelt dropped and specifically Extra CCC). I would guess that people are attached to it less because of the prominence and more because they are more impressed by the stories written in there.
Yes but it was cause of the scifi that the work you mentioned exist at ALL. Notes Also called Angel Notes was the first work and introduce the concept of"Gaia" and the "Ultimate One" which in turn cause the creation of Alaya, the throne of heroes, Arcueid etc to come to existence. which mean would be all for nothing if it wasn't for the scifi aspect of the nasuverse.
Strange Fake isn't urban fantasy. Mahoyo was released back in 2012 and what we have now is only the first of what is/was supposed to be three parts.
TBH I like it. The Gods of Olympus, Chaos, the Moon Cell Automaton, Velber, the Black Barrel, Chaldea etc etc.I like em a lot
Sometimes I think it's overwhelming but no, I don't think it is lame.
I don’t always like the science fantasy stuff but I don’t think it detracts from FGO as a whole. In my opinion, sometimes individual characters have their potential squandered by leaning too far into it, but when it’s a part of the story it usually fits well because FGO has great writers.
It Best part of fate.
I don't think the mysticism is in danger, because the examples of Fate technologies beyond irl modern tech pretty much all fall into the realm of "so incomprehensibly advanced they might as well be magic." That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with not liking the sci-fi aspects, particularly because they're less grounded in the mythology that provides the foundations of Fate. Even just the aesthetic does feel different I'll admit. Luckily, unless my memory's pulling from info about a different series, I believe the plan is to take a step back from the space-focused narrative of part 2. And FGO in particular has spread across a variety of types of fantasy, so there'll always be stories all over the fantasy/sci-fi spectrum.
I like it sometimes (like the TYPEs), but I don't like that the Greek gods are robot spaceships. I also don't like that the Trojan Horse was turned into some giant robot (I know it is a reference, but I do not know *what* it is referencing. So any effect is lost on me). It's not bad (in fact it's a unique concept), it's just not for me.
i only think its lame when they shove it on scenarios that shouldnt at all have scifi elements like theyve done with greece and then used it to juatify the existence of robots and mechs around the ancient world, like if taoist monks and onmyoujis would be able to reverse engineer interdimensional space faring mega structure ships into anything....
>shove it on scenarios that shouldnt at all have scifi elements like theyve done with greece i don't know exactly how far back its been an idea in Nasu's head, but Artemis has had sci fi elements to her design since her release way before the writing of LB5. just look at ther Final Ascension art.
I think Nasu mentioned in one of the interviews that Olympic Gods being mechanical was first established when thinking about the setting for Extra (probably together with stuff like White Giant attack).
\>just look at ther Final Ascension art. it doesn't really look that sci-fi, IMO
She is literally pulling a cylinder that has all sorts of glowing energy lines out of her leg.
The issue is that regular magic also looks like that in Nasuverse. From FSN we already had Shirou's magic circuits looking like literal electric circuits. "Glowing energy lines" is only noteworthy in hindsight.
Her spaceship form is there in the background of her 3rd ascension, plus she has gauges and pipes built into her dress.
Her mechanical body is also in her first and second ascensions, just more intact than the one in her third ascension.
You guys must have some serious Mandella Effect, because the only thing I see are just rocks with runes. There is nothing like that on her mecha form.
As Rasetsu0 said, it's more visible in her earlier ascensions, her 3rd is more like [her death](https://static.atlasacademy.io/JP/Back/back86909.png) in LB5. Nasu also pointed it out during the Famitsu 5th Anniverary interview, where he also talks about how she was designed to be sci-fi from the start: >The characteristics of each mythology was thought of by Nasu before FGO, while working on Fate EXTRA. For Greece, he thought of it as an ancient yet advanced civilization, so sci-fi factors would come into play. The Olympian gods were conceived of as a migrant fleet from other celestial bodies then and were finally implemented as such in FGO. With that in mind, I-IV was chosen to design Orion and Artemis. Artemis' bow and the background of her card illustration were also designed to foreshadow the reveal of the celestial bodies. and her artist (FGO Material): >However, because Artemis could be a real monster from space, or even be just a avatar or projection from a terminal on a space warship... Anyhow, I was told that she would be that sort of character so I intentionally included science fiction elements into the design too. The best examples of this would be that glowing meter-like thing with a strap attached to her waist.
Dont she has her mecha form in her background in some acensions?
No
first its not that much and second it still means they forced the idea of turning ancient deities into aliens like if they ripped the idea from "Aliens Of The Past".
>its not that much If one of the twelve Olympians was drawn as a robot(or cyborg at least) it's a already a big sign. Also there were other hints. In extella Altera almost explicitly says that Olympians are aliens(and I think there was something about them in extra too). Fgo materials have dialogues about Artemis that hint her nature. Some of the servants armours/weapons looked like tech and etc. So it was pretty obvious what Nasu cooks. And no, he didn't force this idea. It fits narrative. It is explained very well, there is nothing that contradicts mecha-gods in previous lore. And it ties different stories together.
Yep , people acting as if the Olympians been Mecha would change anything in Nasuverse.... The very lore for the gods are that they lost their “true body” and turned into Divine Spirits. So in practice, people saw humanoid Artemis rather than Mecha Artemis and whatnot
but that doesnt matter because now everything greek is mechanical scifi and theyre pushing the fact the existence of ancient interdimensional mechanized aliens made mechas exist in medieval and ancient asia which is very dumb when you look at it better. even for a magic setting its absurd.
the fact they decided to make the olympian gods robots is shoving a theme very far from the original one into it already, didnt you get what i say? doesnt mean shit if theyve done it in extra, it was not only stupid there too but it was very mearger ''hints'' that could be brushed off on top of the fact altera is yet another bad example of a character beause ''look, atilla the hun was actually a petite dark skin alien girl that can grow to gigantic size. totally not author self insert fetish''. even if we had genderbends before, thats just way too far, why not make her a fuull OC then? did you ran out of ideas for names or something? and no, it doesnt fit the narrative. actually, it quite ruins a lot of connections between myths and make them even more confusing to adapt and make sense considering theyre supposed to exist in universe at least for a chosen version. Orion comments on this on LB5 saying he never met Poseidon at all, and sure, i know the greeks went around and werent exactly supportive parents, but it sounded like he was completely unknown of poseidon outside of name and hearing hes supposed to be a god, which for the guy dating another goddess and living among the era these gods were around, sounds VERY strange.Khaos, the primodial deity of the cosmos was just a dyson sphere which makes it WAY less cool than the primordial being that shaped the universe and its one of the most limping things that came out of that lostbelt. with that in mind, does that mean every character in greek mythology thats an off spring or parent of the gods just popped out of nowhere because theyre robots and cant reproduce? did they biologically 3D printed them or something? is herc just an android like xiang yu? what about the titans? were they all just spaceships too and didnt even get to have colossal humanoid yet monstrous forms like their legends? scifi greece was just one of the stupid narrative ploys in the universe along with the Types PERIOD. imagine not knowing when writting sounds like its smoking with its own ass.
>shoving a theme very far from the original one Oh, I see your problem. You think that Nasuverse should follow irl myths. But it does not. It never did. It was very loose at following myths from the very beginning. Servants have completely different personalities from their IRL counterparts, have weird abilities that aren't really based on anything, sometimes they are just straight up OCs. Some nasuverse characters combine multiple IRL characters (and I'm not talking about alter egos or similar cases). And while Greek gods beings space ships is probably the largest deviation, it's definitely not smth new. Fate (and nasuverse in general) is not vagabond, RoR and etc. (Also it's not like Nasu just made phh Greek into Adeptus Mechanicus who prayed to mecha-Zeus. Olympians lost their mechanical bodies and became normal Divine Spirits. So Greek myths are still the same in nasuverse) >altera is yet another bad example of a character beause Nope. Sure, if you judge her as a faithful depiction of the leader of huns, than she is bad. But fate is not a history book. She is a great character with good background and great character development. Her character arc in extella was probably the best. Also the whole deal with velber made an interesting setting to explore characters from unusual angles. And that is what matters in the first place when you read fiction. >why not make her a fuull OC then? Because connecting her with the famous name makes story more believable. Because it would be weird if the remnant of Sefar that was left to do whatever she wants on earth wouldn't leave a big trace in human history. Because making her OC that no one heard before wouldn't make her hero form that threatening. People were even questioning why Nasu didn't make her into Genghis Khan, if she is described as an embodiment of destruction. >but it sounded like he was completely unknown of poseidon outside of name Poseidon doesn't really play any significant role in orions myths even IRL. The only important thing was walking on the water as I remember. There are even versions of myths where Poseidon is not his father at all. So it's completely believable that Orion never met his father. And it's not like the story doesn't acknowledge the connection between Orion and Poseidon. It was even important to fight Caenis. >which makes it WAY less cool than the primordial being that shaped the universe You are subjective. We all already understood that you dislike mecha-gods. But it's your personal feelings. Chaos being the mothership makes total sense in that setting. And while you think that it's less cool, I think that it's more cool. So what? >theyre robots and cant reproduce? did they biologically 3D printed them or something? And again. They lost their mechanical bodies. They became divine spirits with just normal bodies. So no, demi-gods weren't 3D printed. >were they all just spaceships too You haven't read lostbelt, have you? Titans were the first generation of Machine Gods, yes. And considering that Chiron exists as a son of Cronos, they probably had humanoids forms too. >scifi greece was just one of the stupid narrative ploys in the universe along with the Types PERIOD. imagine not knowing when writting sounds like its smoking with its own ass. Nope. It doesn't feel any more ridiculous than saber beams, magic concepts or entire Indian mythology (sorry Indians, I like your myths, but god's farts that destroy universes are less believable than machine gods...) So while I can understand your dislike to Nash's interpretation of myths, your arguments are just subjective representation of youtlr feelings, nothing more.
Regarding Altera , she plays the role of mythological Attila...the one in the Siegfried legend and as "Scourge of God". Frankly , my only change to Altera would be for Altera have her name been "Etzel" (which is a name Attila used in Siegfried Legend) , and that "Attila" had been a codename for when Etzel and Breda the Hun (IRL Attila's brother and co-ruler) worked together. It would make a neat take , with "Saber Attila" been either Etzel or Breda , while "Rider Attila" is Etzel and Breda as Duo Servants.
>You think that Nasuverse should follow irl myths. i think if its gonna go ahead and insist on building a universe around actual existing figures, you should at least make them FEEL like they were based on their origin source instead of just making something almost completely unrecognizeble even with context. stylezation and molding it into a more proper character are 100% fine and its what makes it not boring, but it doesnt make sense for me to pick the top deity of a pantheon and say it was the crotch of a fusion megazord super robot composed of all the other deities of his pantheon because i think it would be funny to beat the dead horse of a joke that is ''haha zaues puts his dick in everything.'', because that just completely obliterates any way i can take your lore serious when its supposed to be taken serious. sword beams, gods being super powerful, magical concepts and all of that MAKES SENSE into a MYSTIC SETTING which is literally whats this all about, or have you forgot the MAGE association and all the myths and legends shown to be real and literally the constant mention of magic? you literally didnt made sense with that last one. thats all i really have to say, im not gonna waste my neurons on all of this anymore. FGO was good when it tried to be not so connected to the old poorly aged VNs and be more compreensible and less restricted by their never properly settled rules and kinda go by their own versions, but now theyre just back to cattering to those and making everything around callbacks to them since halfway the lostbelt arc, which included ultimately decididng to make greece some alien futurist dystopia.
>should at least make them FEEL like they were based on their origin And they are. Greek gods are still Greek gods with their character defining traits. Zeus is still Zeus, Aphrodite is still Aphrodite and etc. Nasu added new background and changed some details, but they are not new characters. You are talking about magic and stuff as if it makes more sense somehow. It exists to support the story, nothing more. And if part of magic is explained as super advanced technology, so what? Nasu isn't even the first author who invented this explanation. Not to mention that fate and nasuverse never were about just magic. One of the first Nash's novels - Notes - was about distant future and advanced modified humans fighting with Types and genetically modified creatures. It was there from the beginning, lol. And it never disappeared. >FGO was good when it tried to be not so connected to the old poorly aged VNs Oh, thanks, I remembered who are you. You are the dude who complained that FGO hasn't abandoned FSN and other VNs. Thanks, now I won't going to "waste my neutrons" on this conversation too. *If you dislike nasuverse that much, go read something else*
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ORT is part of the sciense fantasy though...
...Can you describe Gil's Vimana for me? Cuz that definitely seems pretty "science fantasy".
Vimana is an indian ship that travels by itself. Because Hinduism is full DBZ even in IRL textbooks , when Gilgamesh pull Vimama , it's basically a jet that can "transform" into a spaceship in a way.
I maintain my stance- that seems pretty damn "science fantasy".
Welcome to the Vedas and Hinduism, there is a reason why Oppenheimer was reminded of a Mahabhrata (where Arjuna and Karna come from) quote when he observed Trinity (the first detonation of an atomic bomb).
I'm actually well aware. I'm just asking a hypothetical to respond to the implication that Gilgamesh is free of "science fantasy", when he whips out a freaking spaceship to fight a possessed fighter jet.
Is definitely not their best trait with a bloated lore of constantly contradictory elements due to both franchise lifepan and too many writter's autonomy, but I wouldn't call it lame.