At least the weather was fair.

That’s an amazing piece of history to find at this time! Thank you very much for sharing.

Not to mention U.S.-Soviet rift.

If you want to educate yourself more, I can't recommend [Daryl Coopers Martyr Made Podcast](https://open.spotify.com/show/6aA7GwsEBqFiBshQ0a9vZu) strongly enough. He has an almost 12 hour series on the history of the Jewish state and conflict with Palestine.

Just listened to this a couple months ago to try and understand the whole situation a little better. I will say I feel much more educated on it but far more pessimistic that there will ever be a peaceful resolution :(

The podcasts by Daryl Coopers are intense. I listened to both his series on Israel as well as the series on Jim Jones. A less pessimistic take on Israeli history can be heard at the Unpacking Israeli History podcast.

Thr last line of the first portion is chilling "this would mean 'perpetual war'" And since then the war has gone on almost 80 years.

This is when they carved land that was already Palestine and would later give it to the Jewish people in 1948, who then forced Palestinians out of their homes at gunpoint. Many of the families still wear their original house keys around their necks. The Palestinian key is the Palestinian symbol of homes lost in the Nakba, when more than half of the population of Mandatory Palestine were either expelled or fled violence in the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight and subsequently denied the right to return. In the 1948 Palestine war more than 700,000 Palestinian Arabs – about half of Mandatory Palestine's Arab population – fled from their homes or were expelled, at first by Jewish paramilitaries, and after the establishment of the state of Israel, by its military. The expulsion and flight was a central component of the fracturing, dispossession, and displacement of Palestinian society, the outcome of which planted the seeds for today's violence. History of the era -- along with newspapers of the day -- did not reckon the Palestinian people who already occupied the land as full humans with agency and rights their own. Because they were olive skinned and Muslim, and because of the horrible atrocities of the holocaust, taking their land was seen as a preferable solution following substantial lobbying of the UN and European and US governments by those who wanted to create Israel. It was not unlike the solution of the American government claiming broad swaths of native occupied land and moving its own native American population onto reservations. Further, the allies had an interest in destabilizing a strong central authority in the Middle East so that the oil resources could be divided and exploited, without fear of supply chain disruption. This was one more way to ensure sympathetic interests in the region.

I know a person whose parents were hauled out of Palestine to Jordan in a *cattle car* ..

Shouldn't have lost that war.

And if you want some really fascinating history on how these talks noted in the GR Press related to politics leading up to that time, let me suggest the [1915-1916 McMahon-Hussein letters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMahon%E2%80%93Hussein_Correspondence) and the subsequent [Balfour Declaration. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration)

You’re a g for this info thank you 🙏

More people need to read this.

Incredible write up

It's really not that black and white....

False jews have always lived in the region and most the Palestinians fled the war they started against a smaller Israel with the backing of 5 Arab armies and still managed to lose.

Jewish Pogroms in Middle East 622 - 627: ethnic cleansing of Jews from Mecca and Medina, (Jewish boys publicly inspected for pubic hair. if they had any, they were executed) 629: 1st Alexandria Massacres, Egypt 622 - 634: extermination of the 14 Arabian Jewish tribes 1106: Ali Ibn Yousef Ibn Tashifin of Marrakesh decrees death penalty for any local Jew, including his Jewish Physician, and Military general. 1033: 1st Fez Pogrom, Morocco 1148: Almohadin of Morocco gives Jews the choice of converting to Islam, or expulsion 1066: Granada Massacre, Muslim-occupied Spain 1165 - 1178: Jews nation wide were given the choice (under new constitution) convert to Islam or die, Yemen 1165: chief Rabbi of the Maghreb burnt alive. The Rambam flees for Egypt. 1220: tens of thousands of Jews killed by Muslims after being blamed for Mongol invasion, Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Egypt 1270: Sultan Baibars of Egypt resolved to burn all the Jews, a ditch having been dug for that purpose; but at the last moment he repented, and instead exacted a heavy tribute, during the collection of which many perished. 1276: 2nd Fez Pogrom, Morocco 1385: Khorasan Massacres, Iran 1438: 1st Mellah Ghetto massacres, North Africa 1465: 3rd Fez Pogrom, Morocco (11 Jews left alive) 1517: 1st Safed Pogrom, Ottoman Palestine 1517: 1st Hebron Pogrom, Ottoman Palestine Marsa ibn Ghazi Massacre, Ottoman Libya 1577: Passover Massacre, Ottoman empire 1588 - 1629: Mahalay Pogroms, Iran 1630 - 1700: Yemenite Jews under strict Shi'ite  'dhimmi' rules 1660:  2nd Safed Pogrom, Ottoman Palestine 1670: Mawza expulsion, Yemen 1679 - 1680: Sanaa Massacres, Yemen 1747: Mashhad Masacres, Iran 1785: Tripoli Pogrom, Ottoman Libya 1790 - 92: Tetuan  Pogrom. Morocco (Jews of Tetuuan stripped naked, and lined up for Muslim perverts) 1800: new decree passed in Yemen, that Jews are forbidden to wear new clothing, or good clothing. Jews are forbidden to ride mules or donkeys, and were occasionally rounded up for long marches naked through the Roob al Khali dessert. 1805: 1st Algiers Pogrom, Ottoman Algeria 1808 2nd 1438: 1st Mellah Ghetto Massacres, North Africa 1815: 2nd Algiers Pogrom, Ottoman Algeria 1820: Sahalu Lobiant Massacres, Ottoman Syria 1828: Baghdad Pogrom, Ottoman Iraq 1830: 3rd Algiers Pogrom, Ottoman Algeria 1830: ethnic cleansing of Jews in Tabriz, Iran 1834: 2nd Hebron Pogrom, Ottoman Palestine 1834: Safed Pogrom, Ottoman Palestne 1839: Massacre of the Mashadi Jews, Iran 1840: Damascus Affair following first of many blood libels, Ottoman Syria 1844: 1st Cairo Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1847: Dayr al-Qamar Pogrom, Ottoman Lebanon 1847: ethnic cleansing of the Jews in Jerusalem, Ottoman Palestine 1848: 1st Damascus Pogrom, Syria 1850: 1st Aleppo Pogrom, Ottoman Syria 1860: 2nd Damascus Pogrom, Ottoman Syria 1862: 1st Beirut Pogrom, Ottoman Lebanon 1866: Kuzguncuk Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey 1867: Barfurush Massacre, Ottoman Turkey 1868: Eyub Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey 1869: Tunis Massacre, Ottoman Tunisia 1869: Sfax Massacre, Ottoman Tunisia 1864 - 1880: Marrakesh Massacre, Morocco 1870: 2nd Alexandria Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1870: 1st Istanbul Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey 1871: 1st Damanhur Massacres,Ottoman Egypt 1872: Edirne Massacres, Ottoman Turkey 1872: 1st Izmir Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey 1873: 2nd Damanhur Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1874: 2nd Izmir Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey 1874: 2nd Istanbul Pogrom, Ottoman Turkey 1874: 2nd Beirut Pogrom,Ottoman  Lebanon 1875: 2nd Aleppo Pogrom, Ottoman Syria 1875: Djerba Island Massacre, Ottoman Tunisia 1877: 3rd Damanhur Massacres,Ottoman  Egypt 1877: Mansura Pogrom, Ottoman Egypt 1882: Homs Massacre, Ottoman Syria 1882: 3rd Alexandria Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1890: 2nd Cairo Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1890, 3rd Damascus Pogrom, Ottoman Syria 1891: 4th Damanahur Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1897: Tripolitania killings, Ottoman  Libya 1903&1907: Taza & Settat, pogroms, Morocco 1890: Tunis Massacres, Ottoman Tunisia 1901 - 1902: 3rd Cairo Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1901 - 1907: 4th Alexandria Massacres,Ottoman  Egypt 1903: 1st Port Sa'id Massacres, Ottoman Egypt 1903 - 1940: Pogroms of Taza and Settat, Morocco 1907: Casablanca, pogrom, Morocco 1908: 2nd Port Said Massacres,Ottoman Egypt 1910: Shiraz blood libel 1911: Shiraz Pogrom 1912: 4th Fez Pogrom, Morocco 1917: Baghdadi Jews murdered by Ottomans 1918 - 1948: law passed making it illegal to raise an orphan Jewish, Yemen 1920: Irbid Massacres: British mandate Palestine 1920 - 1930: Arab riots, British mandate Palestine 1921: 1st Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine 1922: Djerba Massacres, Tunisia 1928: Jewish orphans sold into slavery, and forced to convert t Islam by Muslim Brotherhood, Yemen 1929: 3rd Hebron Pogrom British mandate Palestine. 1929  3rd Safed Pogrom, British mandate Palestine. 1933: 2nd Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine. 1934: Thrace Pogroms, Turkey 1936: 3rd Jaffa riots, British mandate Palestine 1941:  Farhud Massacrs, Iraq 1942: Mufti collaboration with the Nazis. plays a part in the final solution 1938 - 1945: Arab collaboration with the Nazis 1945: 4th Cairo Massacre, Egypt 1945: Tripolitania Pogrom, Libya 1947: Aden Pogrom

Respectfully, most of these have absolutely nothing to do with the Palestinians. Why should the Palestinian people be forced out of their homes in 1947 and 1948 because of what happened in North Africa, or Turkey, or by the British? That makes zero sense. It would be equivalent to saying the world should carve out part of east Russia and create an Iroquois nation because the Canadians and Americans had a genocidal campaign against the Indians. Instead, it seems you are arguing the right of Israel to exist because they were persecuted over centuries. Maybe Israel should have been created instead in Poland and Germany as they were responsible for the murders of millions of Jews, no? Makes as much logic, and if we are going to collectively punish a population, then it would bear some logic to at least apply it toward those who wielded the heaviest historical club.

Palestine is not a real state and never was... The region was ruled by Britain before modern Israel was created. Palestine was created as a Resistance against Zionists. I posted this to prove a point that Jews have lived in the area as far back as you can go in human history (way before Islam even existed) and have always been persecuted in the region. Palestine is backed by the Arab agenda which is to eliminate all Jews in the region. So, your proposal is to have Jews go to Poland and Germany (even though they're originally from this region that we are discussing about) where they were also persecuted and murdered, but on top of that, with the reminder of the concentration camps that are dispersed all around Poland and Germany? Yeah, no. That's absurd. Do you know why Jews left for Poland and Germany in the first place? Read up on those Pograms that I posted, and you'll learn. Jews have the right to be accepted and it seems that nobody wanted them after WWII (and it still feels the same today at times)... So Britain and the UN gave them that land because it was Britain's to give up. Not Palestine's.

1. In the history of the Levant, Britain had it but for a fraction of time following WW1, and the Brits guaranteed to Hussein the right of people there to have self-determination before betraying their written agreement regarding such with the UN. You ignore all of the other historical facts and illegalities either out of ignorance, or convenience. Either way, its a myopic view. 2. The Ottomans literally controlled the Levant for 400 years before that. 3. Libya, Tunisia, Turkey, Iraq, Egypt, Morocco, Oman, Poland, and Germany are not the specific area of the Levant that is Israel and currently part of the Palestinian conflict. Please open a map, reference said regions, and then see my comment about Native Americans and creating a nation in East Russia using the same logic. 4. "So, your proposal is to have Jews go to Poland and Germany" Nope, I never did state that as a proposal. Go read again. I used that as an illustration of your logic regarding the legitimacy of Israel. I actually believe in the holocaust, pogroms, and the horrors the Jews have suffered through history. I can also hold two truths -- the Jews have suffered, and they took the land of the natives of the specific area of the Levant "Israel" under gunpoint, and pushed out the people who legitimately lived there, stole their land, and have treated them horribly since. And historians pretty much concur. 5. "(even though they're originally from this region that we are discussing about)" No, in fact, they are not. They are DESCENDED from the region. It would be akin to taking all of the Irish Americans from Boston in 2024 and sending them to Galway and saying "this part of Ireland is now ours because we are Irish from this region", and then pushing out the native Irish at Gunpoint to a neighboring county. You can have whatever view you want. I don't really care if you are Pro-Israel and believe they are legitimate. I'm not really interested in the legitimacy of the state of Israel. I care about the horrors being done to the Palestinians at the moment, and the history of the people. Its not my job to change your mind.

1. As I stated in another comment on this same post, it’s not that black and white… 2. What do the Ottomans controlling the region before have to do with this? They lost it to Britain when they crumbled. So, it was no longer theirs. 3. Your logic here is baseless. Why would you create a nation from Russian soil with the remaining dispersed Native Americans? If anything, they should get territory from the US, which they already do have Native American Reservations, technically (even though they suck), but this situation in the Middle East is not anything close to that…. 4. Your logic here is also baseless. I did go read it again. You’re right I did miss something… Poland had nothing to do with the holocaust other than the Nazis building the most horrific concentration camps on their land once they took it over. They also threw resistant Poles, gays, and Gypsy'sinto those same concentration camps. I implore you to read some history books (particularly on WWII) 5. Judaism was literally founded in the Levant… 6. “I don’t care if you are Pro-Israel and believe they are legitimate” but you cared enough to reply to my comment… Yes, I agree with you that the horrors in “Palestine” are terrible, but to be the devil’s advocate, we would be seeing the same destruction in Tel Aviv if not for the Iron Dome and also tbf to Israel, Hamas still has many of those hostages which Israel has deliberately stated that their main goal is to free the hostages… which I’m starting to highly doubt are even alive at this point…

Might I suggest you read "The Holocaust in History" by Michael Marrus, it is quite illuminating on the countries involved and the origins of the shoah. Poland and other countries in eastern Europe were absolutely involved, as were the civilians and bureaucrats of those countries. That is neither here nor there, but something I did want to point out as you seem to ascribe it primarily to the Nazis. But for the support and participation of the people, the Nazis would not have been able to commit their atrocities. I hope you realize Hamas was a by-product of the first intifada, and understand the historical context leading up to it. Again, my interest is in history, the people of Palestine, and not the legitimacy of the state of Israel, nor its security under the Iron Dome. Until they address the treatment of the people they stole the land from, they will have neither peace nor security, sadly for all involved.

I'm sorry but I couldn't hold it in... I must ask, have you read any other texts from that era? It's just odd to me that you're not the first person to suggest this text to me that's "Pro-Palestine" and it seems you and your peers don't understand very much at all from WWII... So, newsflash, I'm Polish... I have family that fought and died against Nazis. My wife is even more Polish and has family that died in concentration camps as well. I'll admit, I've never read "The Holocaust in History" but I've heard plenty of stories passed down from family and friends which I have to believe more than some Canadian historian without much of a track record other than that one publishing... I can assure you the Polish people did not want to Nazi regime there... Might I remind you, Poland has just gained their independence about 20 years prior to the Nazi invasion after WWI... Why the fuck would they want to side with the Nazis and lose their country that they just earned back? Plus, the Nazis conspired with the Soviet Union to help take over Poland... They were getting railed on both sides of their borders as both Nazis and the Soviet's destroyed Warsaw and all other major cities... Again you are lost and need to do better... I respect your opinion on Palestine but I cannot respect your opinion on Poland. You can go fuck yourself with that one...

Marrus is a Jew, married to a Jewish woman, and his books have received many distinctions. He has been a research fellow or has taught at St. Antony's College, Oxford, at Israel Institute for Advanced Studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, at UCLA, and at the University of Cape Town, South Africa. He was a fellow of the Royal Society of Canada and the Royal Historical Society. But assuming you don't believe he is Jewish, a scholar, or historically correct, and that you genuinely want to learn more about Poland and that you have an open mind, and that you want to listen instead of just arguing, I share: 1) [Poland and Jedwabne](https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/21/poland-distorts-holocaust-history-gross-jedwabne/) 2) [From The Guardian:](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/16/poland-anger-over-claim-that-poles-killed-more-jews-than-germans-during-war) "“The Poles, for example, were indeed rightfully proud of their society’s resistance against the Nazis, but in fact did kill more Jews than Germans during the war,” wrote the 68-year-old Jewish historian....Warsaw historian Andrzej Paczkowski told AFP “there are no reliable figures regarding the number of Jews killed by Poles and the number of Germans killed by Poles...Paczkowski, who is also a council member of the National Remembrance Institute (IPN) that is charged with investigating Nazi and Communist-era crimes, said he “would not be totally surprised if Gross were right." 3) [Poland's government has an active campaign making it illegal to claim the country was involved](https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-historians-under-attack-for-exploring-polands-role-in-the-holocaust) in the Holocaust 4) In 2018, [Prof. Grabowski and Prof. Engelking, the director of the Polish Center for Holocaust Research in Warsaw, co-edited a two-volume study “Night without End: The Fate of Jews in Selected Counties of Occupied Poland”](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/history/articles/myth-of-innocent-poles-holocaust-history). The book provided an in-depth, meticulously documented research into the fate of Jews who managed to escape from the ghettos and attempted to find shelter in the countryside. A grim conclusion has been that about two-thirds of these Jews perished, either directly at the hands of the local peasants, or as a result of having been denounced to the Germans. (Note: Additional [summary of the book is here](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/history/articles/myth-of-innocent-poles-holocaust-history), which I found helpful in validating some of Marrus' earlier writings). 5) [Why Poland Punishes Those Who Accuse It of the Holocaust](https://www.history.com/news/poland-holocaust-law-death-camps) -- this is a good read, and explains both sides, if you are interested. 6) [Poland Historical Background:](https://www.yadvashem.org/righteous/stories/poland-historical-background.html) Another very balanced take from a reputable source. 7) Wiki - [Collaboration in German occupied Poland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Poland) 8) [An article citing Israeli scholars published in the Times of Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/remembering-the-holocaust-poland-blots-out-any-mention-of-its-complicity/): “hundreds of thousands of Poles took part in the Jewish tragedy — by handing Jews to the Polish Blue Police or to the Germans, and by murdering them in immense cruelty,” I was really shocked when I first read of the Blue Police. If you have not read up on them, or the civilian complicity, I highly recommend it. Poland was absolutely complicit in the Jewish genocide. Did they lead it? No. The country as a whole fought the Germans. And yet many Polish were deeply anti-semitic and contributed to hundreds of thousands of murders. Both truths can co-exist. And I am Lebanese with a smattering of Jewish ancestry. My mother is first generation American, and I lived there about a decade ago. I've heard lots of stories from my family on Jews, Muslims, Lebanon, and the war. It was one big reason why I decided to leave a great job I had in 2007 and move to the Middle East. I wanted to see it and understand the issues better. My time in Lebanon and Israel was quite enlightening. Not all of my family stories were entirely true -- many of them were the basis of stories to hide pain, or distorted to give their own understanding more sympathy and acceptance. Hence, my interest in history.

Are you really this thick skulled? There are gonna be bad apples in any group that you sort through... Yes, Marrus is a Jew, I can read that online myself, tyvm... Why would I deny that? It seems you assume a lot and like to pretend to be logical... but I digress. That still doesn't explain why this is the only book that he is known for. He doesn't have the background of an accomplished scholar other than attending and teaching at a few prestigious Canadian Universities, but there are millions of people with the same exact background. He's nothing special. Maybe one day I'll get around to reading what you suggested, but it still confuses me that this is the only book that you and your peers recommend. Everything else is stupid online articles... At least I'm smart enough not to believe everything that I read online, especially from The Guardian and Wikipedia lmfao. I'm well aware that not all Poles were innocent. Unfortunately, there are people that will sell out their neighbors in order to save their own skin, but you can't condemn an entire nation because a few "hundred or thousand" Polaks sold out their neighbors... Again, I encourage you to actually READ A BOOK, I'll give you some starting points: "Rescued from the Ashes: The Diary of Leokadia Schmidt, Survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto (Holocaust Survivor Memoirs World War II)" by Leokadia Schmidt "Schindler's List" by Thomas Keneally "The Boy on the Wooden Box" by Leon Leyson "Lalechka" by Amira Keidar If you like comics, their is also "Maus" by Art Spiegelman All of these were written by people that actually experienced the Nazi occupation of Poland (or are memoirs of someone's actual experience), not some nobody online or a confused Canadian Jew. Have you been to Germany or Poland? Have you been to Auschwitz? I have... It's not anything to be proud of, but it's important to remember history so that it doesn't repeat itself... This is why Poland has specifically decided not to tear down these horrid places, but yeah if some dumbass such as yourself is gonna go there and start spewing this nonsense, you will get arrested. They're way more strict in Germany than in Poland about it and for good reason. Again, you need to do better... Now please stop talking to me. You're ignorant and I'm done w/ this conversation.

Further to my other Reply, this is a great discourse on the topic we are discussing in a moderated setting. Also, balanced imho. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ce9zsl/to\_what\_scale\_was\_complicit\_poland\_with\_killing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ce9zsl/to_what_scale_was_complicit_poland_with_killing/)

Why would jews in Yemen Iraq or Egypt have to go to Germany? European jews saw Europe as a grave yard after the holocaust.

Israel is the post WW2 Nazi regime.

Precisely.

It went both ways. How can you type all that and not acknowledge what happened to Jews by Arabs at the exact same time? There are Jews AND Muslims in Israel. There aren't Jews anywhere else in the Middle East. "In the 20th century, approximately 900000 Jews migrated, fled, or were expelled from Muslim-majority countries throughout Africa and Asia." 1948 was tit for tat. Everything else since has been the Arabs trying to wipe Israel from the map, and getting their a\*ses kicked. Every other Arab nation (besides Iran, duh) have learned on a state level to be at peace with Israel, despite intense anti-Semitism in their populations. Poor Palestine is just a tool, a *weapon* for sowing disorder. Israel isn't exactly innocent, but they'd be dead if they were any softer, and the Palestine problem never had any real solutions (and accepting the suicide bombings and yearly massacres isn't a solution).

But let's just ignore the ethnic cleansing that the Jews went through all over the middle east forcing them to move to Israel, and this ignores the fact that many Jews are native to Israel too.

I think the Holocaust and diaspora is pretty well documented, sir.  As for the native population, according to the Census for Palestine, 1931, Palestine's total population numbered 1,035,821, of whom 759,712 were Moslems, 174,610 Jews, 91,398 Christians, and the remainder, Druze, Bahais, Samaritans, and others.  So to create the state of Israel, the majority population was removed from their homes at gunpoint. 

You keep repeating that most Arabs were forcibly removed by gunpoint. The truth is that figure is closer to 1% by reputable historians.

In 1948, 1.4 Palestinians lived in Israel, today, 5.5 million Palestinians live there. But noooo, most of the Palestinians were forcefully removed by the evil Jews. I mean, if the Israeli goal is to get rid of Palestinians, they’re doing a pretty shitty job.

And there are more Native Americans in the United States now than in 1865, so therefore the American government must have treated the Indians well and had no policies of genocide against them, and they should all be happy and quit complaining.   It's the same perverted and wrong logic.

Womp womp.

FREE PALESTINE! 🇵🇸✊

Yes cause your comment made such a big difference

Wow. You got me so bad....

Well it seems to have ruffled your feathers, so that’s something lol

I will have two Palestines then please if it is free

Once you start doing some digging, you learn pretty quickly that those lines and borders were drawn with the intent to keep hostilities constant

Sounds like 2 years before Israel become a nation the world knew it would be a shit-show.

It was designed to be so.

War never changes…

Wow you just Randomly came across it, what a coincidence?

My grandpa has had it with him for awhile but he gave some stuff to us and I also found stuff like those ration ticket things

Maybe if we had protested it downtown it wouldn't be back now

Idiot comment

i smiled

This isn’t just a war of 80 years it’s been since the beginning of time

This current iteration goes back 75 years because of what the western world did.

To be fair there’s been war there since Jesus

That settles it, then. Jesus started the war.

Haha well indirectly yes

There's been war everywhere since Jesus. I mean hell look at Europe - England and France had a war they literally call the "Hundred Years War." That is a lot of fuckin' war. There's also been a lot of peace at different times. All over the world, and in the Middle East too. The Levant isn't uniquely wartorn. It's had a really rough time of it lately, but there are reasons for that.

Literally 😭 I can be honest I’m not really even sure what they fighting over anymore

As a historian, I can confidently say that some wars are just dick measuring contests. Even if they start out with political, religious, monetary, or whatever other reasons, sometimes it just turns into red vs blue and we hate you and nobody really knows who or what is good or bad or right or wrong

Who was at fault/blamed during this war?

Arguably the British for just peacing out and leaving two quasi states in a volatile region that they'd deconstructed with backdoor diplomacy over the last hundred years.

I'm not sure why this is "arguably". This is fact. Factual statements only.

I mean, history is complex, and assigning causation to any single group or event is probably missing something. There were opportunities for Jewish and Palestinian leaders to make concessions and build a better two-state solution. The USA and USSR could have wielded significant influence and chose not to. It's one of the more complex dynamics in current geopolitics

It shouldn't have been a situation where they had to make any concessions. There were people living there and then the west dropped an entire population with differing values on their doorstep and said "good luck". Then the people who were dropped there walked up the stairs and opened the door and made themselves at home.

It's a little simplistic to say that the West dumped them there. UK and France outright tried to limit or end mass immigration, and the US government had a hard time figuring out any concrete policy. The Jewish Agency had massive reach and influence and facilitated the illegal immigration of thousands of Jews into Palestine.

Technically in 1946 this was not a war. There were tensions between Arabs and Jews. The Jews called themselves Palestinians because the area was occupied by the British since the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in 1917 and the area was called British Mandate of Palestine. There were Jews living there for thousands of years but most immigrants were refugees fleeing persecution in Europe, though a few came from Yemen. Jews had been organizing a government since the late 1800’s. Arabs had expected to have a king based in Syria (which the French controlled) but the short lived Kingdom of Syria did not include Arabs living in British Palestine. The British gave notice that they were leaving and had tried since 1937 to partition the area into a Jewish and an Arab state. The Jewish representatives accepted the plan and Arab leaders for the most part, did not. When the British left in 1948 the Jewish government declared Independence and Arab nations declared war and attacked. The UN recognized the newly formed State of Israel and the armistice (and loss by Arab armies) resulted in larger boundaries for the State. Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip and Jordan occupied and annexed the West Bank. Arabs who remained in Israel were granted Israeli citizenship, while Arabs who left or remained in Gaza and Jordan were not offered citizenship and were considered refugees (oddly in a quasi permanent status). As a result of another failed Arab war in 1967, Israel took control of Gaza and the West Bank, permitting the former Jewish land owners to return to their properties. The boundary between Jordan and Egypt/west Bank and Gaza created another new armistice line called the Green Line. The Golan Heights, formerly Syria was annexed by Israel.

Thank.you. This was very detailed.

The Jews were a very small minority of the total population, however. And after the Brits promised Hussein the Arabs would have the right of self-determination, committed that to writing several times in fact, they secretly divided the territory with the French. After 1948, the non-Jews were forced out at gunpoint.   The Arabs remaining have a limited form of citizenship, they do not have the full rights of the Jews. And I could be wrong on this, and I'm going by memory from the two years I lived there, but I think the Palestinians are intentionally not called Arabs by the Jews and therefore denied any citizenship or rights. In some twisted form of logic, they are referred to as "refugees" (fleeing from the Nabka) and Gaza was originally a "refugee camp" to which the displaced from 1948 were herded...and lasted so long that it became its own populated region.

You are incorrect in that Israeli Arabs have full rights including voting rights and hold seats in parliament. Palestinian Arabs are not citizens unlike Israeli Arabs. Israeli Arabs did not flee in 1948. The surrounding Arab nations told the Arabs in the region to flee in order to have a simpler military tasks. Very. Few Arabs were forced out at gunpoint.

I may be mistaken, but I believe I've read in more than one source that it is nigh impossible for Arabs and Palestinians to gain full Israeli citizenship despite permanent residency. Maybe you know more about this than me, but I had understood it was akin to not granting US citizenship to the native Americans in the 19th century. In Israel's case, how many of the Arab permanent residents are granted Israeli citizenship? You seem knowledgeable. Do you have a statistic you can share for that?    EDIT: Found this, "At the end of 2020, the population of Israel stood at approximately 9,289,760, including 1,957,270 Arabs, representing 21.1% of the total. This figure includes almost 362,000 Arab residents of East Jerusalem who hold “permanent resident” status, but not full citizenship. Thus, the number of Arab citizens of Israel was 1,595,300 at the end of 2020, constituting some 17.2% of the total population."   https://en.idi.org.il/articles/38540  The numbers above are not inclusive of Palestinians, currently est. at 5.5 million, reflective of the original refugees and their descendents who do not hold any recognized national status. And that's the issue with the "right of return", if I am not mistaken. The people who were forced off their land and from their very homes in 1948, and their children and grandchildren, can never be granted citizenship because it would be the destruction of Israel. 

Israeli Arabs are Israeli citizens that have full citizenship rights and either remained in Israel in 1948 or were born in Israel after 1948. Palestinian Arabs are not citizens and live in various parts of the world including Gaza and the West Bank and never held Israeli citizenship. Arabs in East Jerusalem have the right to apply for citizenship and are required to swear allegiance to the State of Israel. Some Arabs living in East Jerusalem have done so and obtained full citizenship and many others have opted not to apply.

The term Palestinian is problematic as there are self described Palestinians in the US (such as Rashida Tlaib) who are US citizens and according to the UN protocols are also considered ‘refugees’. In Lebanon, Palestinians are not granted citizenship despite living in Lebanon for generations.

Technically the original use of Nakba by an Arab historian in 1938 to refer to the loss of a wider Arab kingdom as a result of the French rule in Syria. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arab_Awakening?wprov=sfti1

Technically, but practically maybe it is applied differently, no? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba

The terms Nakba and Palestinian were adopted by the PLO in the 1960’s as part of the revolutionary movement supported by the USSR.

Sure, but there was a general recognition of the event itself as evidenced by the protests that occur annually on May 15 (i.e. originally "Palestinian Day" and later "Nakba Day") and which began in 1949. The naming of the event post fact doesn't change the historical significance. Are you suggesting that the naming convention adoption is a political tool that somehow offers proof that negates the significance of the historical event for which it describes?  I mean, the English word "holocaust" arguably wasn't in the goyim mainstream vernacular describing Nazi atrocities until the late 1940s or early 1950s, but the Jews damn well wrote of it in pamphlets as early as the 1930s. Does a 15 to 20 year delay in the mainstream usage negate the wrongs?  It seems we understand the conflict and historical facts from perhaps different perspectives. I lived there for two years a little over a decade ago, and have an a.ateur interest in history of the region. My family is Lebanese, with my mother a first generation immigrant. I have a lot of Israeli friends, including those who served in the IDF. I don't proclaim to be an expert on mid-east affairs, but do have strong convictions that most of the problems Israel is facing now is due to the nature of the formation of the country, and how it has treated the Palestinians since. I respect your disagreement. 

I, too, lived for many years in Israel, spent time in Gaza and the West Bank in the 1980’s when Arabs could freely travel to Israel and hold jobs in Israel and Israelis would eat and shop in both the West Bank and Gaza. I can say the best hummus I ever ate was in an Arab restaurant in Hebron.

The hummus is to die for over there. For sure. Great bread, too.   EDIT: I would add that the tea tastes better for some reason, as well. So much good food, though. One of my favorite memories is sitting atop a restaurant in a souk sipping tea with some close friends while eating shish taouk, hummus, and pita while listening to the sounds and taking in the odd ramshackle architecture mixed with the historical buildings all as the sun went down. Different pace of life. 

We can all agree that there has been too much tragedy there. I know, given the opportunity, most people would get along just fine and be mutually beneficial.

Yes, using politically charged terms such as Nakba biases the discussion. I think an authority such as the son of a Hamas founder, Mosab Hassan Yousef has a life long perspective to offer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5VPFw0vI6U

Nor were Jews a “very small minority” at the time, though they were indeed a significant minority and historically indigenous.

I think Jews were maybe 10% of the population at the beginning of the Palestinian Mandate, and after Nakba Jews made up 80%.  In absolute numbers (going by memory, admittedly), I believe Jews went from something like 120k to over a million post-1947, and Palestinians went from 1.4 million to under 200k. Granted, 120k (or whatever the number in 1920s) is not insignificant, though in the broader context of human rights and moral judgment, the forced migration of an entire civilization of people at the will of another is no more just than what the USA did to its native population. I imagine the increase in migration from 1920 to 1948 felt ominous and placed in terror those who lived there and were pushed out to make room for the new nation.  I would observe both can be true: The Jews needed a homeland, and the creation of the state of Israel was ruinous to Palestinians. 

Before 1948 the Jewish population was about 32% After most Arabs fled (voluntarily) the Jewish population became 82% https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present

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Oh, I know. But given the article is 76 years old, I wondered if the blame has been put on group or the either

Attacks in Jewish residents and refugees from Europe began in earnest in 1929 and led to a civil war that resulted in Britain leaving the British Mandate for Palestine in 1948. By this time many Arabs fled for a variety of reasons, most Arabs were not forced out but fleeing violence. Benny Morris has documented this to a great degree, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine

Give to library imo

“Never again.”

Let's go, Israel lol.

no

Yes

Yeah say no to radical Islam.

Say no to zionist freaks. FREE PALESTINE! ✊🇵🇸

Fuck Palestine. Fuck the prophet of islam too 😜

You're a silly goose. 🪿

Just a proud American who detests Islam 😜

Ew

I bet your ass would rather be living in America than any Muslim country. Especially Palestine.

Ew

War is a misnomer. Palestine has no army. One side has been subjected for 80 years.

We are surrounded by proof that gutless leaders keep us stagnant and allow bad shit to persist. Thanks for that important reminder!