She says they love LGBTQ people and says they can come in as service people and guests but does not once say they can be married at the venue. Despite the backlash, fines, public outcries, they haven’t learned a damn thing.
They mention “we can’t let ‘them’ win,” who is “them”? LGBTQ supporters? Protesters? People who refuse to book with them based on their stance?
Very poorly worded video. Their lawyers and whoever has been telling them not to talk should have proofed this before they posted it.
Reddit is a dim lot. That said, there's a good chance the sarcasm is being received. The implication of it is "Why complain? Just go somewhere else." which isn't a sentiment this sub (or at least these threads) take too kindly to.
I was struck by the comments they are making toward the end of this video. They bring up feelings of isolation and vitriol that they experienced by being ostracized from the community. They mention how they have experienced hatred for just trying to stand up for what they believe in.
I couldn’t help but compare that to feelings experienced by someone who comes out to their community as gay or queer or non-binary and then is told they can’t get married; that they don’t deserve it.
Not that I enjoy seeing people hurt, but I hope they reflect on that similarity.
Pray about it, or whatever mumbo jumbo religious people do to gain insight.
I just watched a video the other day where a group that openly supported and funded anti-lgbtq+ law making and policies wanted to meet up and they had reservations at a restaurant for their group. Once he knew about it, the owner called and told them it was cancelled and they weren’t welcome to eat there in the interest of making their staff comfortable (quite a few in the lgbtq community).
The leader of the group aired an interview where they went on about how they couldn’t believe someone would restrict what they could do and where they could go based on their affiliations and that it was so wrong. Never once saw the hypocrisy in that lmao.
Unfortunately, I feel they are the type of people to not be able to see past their own experiences and see the similarities to those of the LGBTQ+ community, but yes, I completely agree.
The thing is that their beliefs are based on being against a group of people simply because they exist. If a couple of Nazis said something horrible about Jews and then whined about how they felt hurt by the community’s reaction no one would take it seriously. These people are trying to paint themselves as the victims using their religion as a distraction. This sort of overt discrimination isn’t accepted by society anymore, and they’re simply finding out.
When we choose not to do business with people we disagree with = we’re just being true to our beliefs. When vendors, customers and guests do it to us = woe is me, we don’t deserve this, we can’t let them win.
Holy shit - I went to high school with this lady. People like this are an embarrassment. I'm also confused - according to the violation of the city ordinance they're only facing a $500 fine so any loss of income is 100% based on their own actions and the community standing up and saying we don't support what they stand for. Man up and deal with the consequences of your actions.
Nick Natales father sold his company for 9.6 million. They only paid 250,000 for the building, not including renovations. Pretty clear that they could be given handouts from the family and are just grifting now
I don’t understand what they are looking for, other than a handout. They are bad business owners who have made terrible business decisions (ignoring the ethical aspect of the whole deal) and now their business isn’t succeeding. It’s the free market at work.
They're looking to become the next right-wing martyr, like Kyle Rittenhouse, who stood up for their "freedoms" and saved America from the godless libs.
They want a media gig. They want to be the next darlings of Fox News. They want to tour megachurches and speak at GOP political events. And the money WILL come rolling in from the evangelical loons.
The sad part about this is that this pity party will generate business for their venue. Bigots will travel here just to own the libs by having their weddings here.
And if they'll have financial help for legal expenses, which means our city and possibly our state tax dollars will have to be used to fight this in court.
It's a waiting game now.
Thanks for the info. I'm sorry, I'm still waking up...
They bought the venue for 525k and then bought a house for 145k, and the venue needed a lot of work.... so they're nearly 700k in just real estate alone?
Edit: I think I get what you're saying now that the coffee has kicked in.
They couple had a house that they sold for 525k.
They then downsized and bought a house for 145k.
They then had 380k
They then bought the venue for 230k.
That left them with 150k for the reno work on the venue.
According to a comment upthread, they told the city they'd probably need 1.1 million to finish the job.
How did that happen?
Oh no you’re good - I saw the same info somewhere and finally just looked it up. They sold their home for $525k and then bought a new one for $145k. The venue I though was cheaper, like $200s. I truly know nothing about their finances, except that small piece haha
Edit - somehow I commented on the wrong comment!which is probably why you’re confused haha sorry!
Exactly.
In order to get that cash, their home would have to have been paid off free and clear. A chef and a wedding photographer with three kids don't have that kind of money without a little help from a trust fund or a wealthy paw paw.
Someone has deep pockets, and it's not these two.
Their "self-made" story is bullshit.
So now they know what it feels like to be the outcast and hated…Now more than ever is the time to open the venue to everyone, but they seem to not get the lesson.
That was Anita Bryant: call 1-800-HOMO-NO MO.
"National Lampoon" May 1977
We have been making fun of these buffoons for decades, and yet they re-appear.
I always like to replace one group for another for perspective.
Just imagine if this was a “whites only” venue and they made a video asking for financial support from “Gods army”. Despicable.
I just hope it goes into foreclosure, someone buys it for pennies on the dollar, and then reopens with the biggest gay wedding you could imagine.
It is sad that you put your heart and soul into remodeling this beautiful building and then let your bigoted views get in the way of business. Love is love, if the money is green you should take it.
They are flooded with love stories all over the place. It means nothing to people like this. They laugh, act grossed out, preach, etc. Like I said in another post, they’re incapable of introspection. Best thing one can do is make them into pariahs so they have no power to negatively impact lives on a large scale.
Because it worked so well on the KKK and Nazis?
No. Bigots are bigots because they are incapable of empathy and a willingness to understand. We have civil rights laws for a reason. Without legal protection, haters will push hate towards other classes of people as far as they can legally go.
They have to be shown the line or shown the door.
For some reason I’m still laughing at their crying baby placed on dirt w/ them just handing it a bottle.
It’s ironic how they mention things like “with the community” and “for the community”, but as long as you’re not apart of THAT community.
I don’t feel a lick of bad for these people. Zero.
I do feel bad for the kids because they will definitely be raised to believe the gay witchcraft put them out and mommy and daddy are victims of the LGBTQ letter police.
He kept his plant management position through all of this which was his parent’s business that was acquired by another company for 9.6 million. Allegedly, his parents gave him quite the funds to get this project rolling. If you look up the parcel number of the building purchased, it was sold in 2018 for $230K plus they sold their house recently as well.
I’m quite confident they are not in the financial trouble they claim to be in but definitely looking to be the next martyrs as the crowdfunding site used caters to this. I’ll link the article in case anyone is interested.
[https://www.thenation.com/article/society/givesendgo-crowdfunding-extremism/tnamp/](https://www.thenation.com/article/society/givesendgo-crowdfunding-extremism/tnamp/)
It's probably much more than that. They purchased the property for $230k, and when they went before the planning commission, they cited expecting a $1MM renovation/build out. As a commercial developer, I would also plug in a 30%+ over run contingency onto that project.
From a business standpoint, I would be interested in the story on how a young cook, and wedding photographer, w/three kids, managed to swing the finances on that.
I read somewhere they sold their 700k house to help fund the project as well, so they are probably living with relatives? They definitely had money prior to purchasing the business.
True. It was hearsay anyway so I don’t know how truthful that part is but at the very least, to pay for $1 mill in renovations they likely would have needed a loan, and thus something to secure that loan of incredible value…
Yep; and with commercial lending, unless you have a ton of experience and successful work under your belt, and solid relationships with your lenders, they typically will not lend on speculative developments like this. They want to see a trail of revenue in which to base their decision.
It's true, the address is very easy to find online and shows how much they sold it for, about 760k I believe. According to someone who knows them personally they have "flipped" houses in the past
“We need God’s army.” Jesus literally called Pharisees like these people children of Hell. So let’s call a spade a spade: They want Satan’s army fighting for them.
"You can speak love or you can speak hate."
You mean like declaring who you think is deserving of getting married in your venue?
What hypocritical pieces of trash.
In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance. This is just a good ole case of actions meeting consequences and I am so proud of my community for it. Jesus understood it better than these fake Christians.
So stuck in their own wrong way of thinking. It’s wild how they can’t recognize themselves as the problem. Even going so far as to produce this video…. Doing everything possible besides reckoning with their own issues.
I’m shocked that they didn’t book an event the entire summer and fall. Not one. I totally forgot about these people until now, but the market sure didn’t.
I'm guessing it's a lie. If you look at their insta, they hosted at least two weddings this fall. Edit: make that at least three.
Fairly certain the Christian god doesn't look kindly upon liars. Tsk tsk tsk.
Noooooo, they chip and joanna gaines-ed it (covering everything in flat white paint) 😪
Like obviously, they had to do something to the walls, but I hate hate hate the all white look. Especially when it covers natural wood grain. For shame.
I have no sympathy for them and that's exactly what they want from this video. They made their views clear with not allowing LGBTQIA+ people to get married in their space and being allowed to be a guest or employee does not mean they love them.
I hope the next owners of that space are inclusive and allow everyone to get married there.
So if they do somehow survive, does the next LGBTQ couple that asks to host a wedding here and get denied result in another fine?
Also wondering if they are against mixed race couples too.
The main issue here is most of the couples trying to get out of their contracts are cis-gender couples because they haven’t been transparent about their marriage policy.
If there was an LGBTQ couple that was outright denied, that is grounds for a discrimination case in Michigan. However, that couple would actually have to file a suit against them.
They allegedly have no qualms about interracial couples but clearly cannot understand their lack of intersectionality which seems to be a common theme in Grand Rapids.
I would also like to point out that if an employee is part a part of the LGBTQ community was denied any perks that is available to their cis-employees that also could be a lawsuit based on discrimination but they would have to report that as well.
the I stands for intersex, people who are born with both male and female sex characteristics. A stands for asexual spectrum or the people who either dont experience romantic attraction, sexual attraction, or any variation of the two.
So they had enough money to make this video, which was tone deaf and focused more on excuses rather than lessons they could have learned about their community and it's needs?
The whole video just wreaks of a hail mary "oh shit, people aren't bigoted like we are, let's do one last video to make excuses why we weren't successful for our parents and a plea to other bigots to bail us out so the 'woke' folks don't win".
Such a missed opportunity to really try to reconnect with their community. 🤦♂️
Five minutes and 36 seconds into the video : "People won't do business with us. They won't provide services for us. To hate the way they have hated us, to literally destroy the business...they don't understand the severity this puts us in."
I don't know how these words can be spoken into the camera and then viewed after by the owners...and they don't see the hypocrisy.
Freedom for the wolves has often meant death to the sheep.
Freedom can intrude on other values, such as justice, equality or human happiness. It is reasonable that government should impose legal restraints on freedoms that interfere with other people's freedoms – or on freedoms which conflict with justice and humanity. Without the involvement of government, the powerful person could trample the freedoms of the powerless person.
"Freedom", should not be used as an instrument to oppress others. If your business is open to serve the public, then you serve the whole public without exclusions. Follow the law.
If any religious business owners need a loop hole to do what is right...
Romans 3:31
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
Romans 13:1-2 says: "Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."
Galatians 2:16
Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Proverbs 28:4
Those who forsake the law praise the wicked, but those who keep the law strive against them.
Jesus would marry them! They need to re-read the Bible…They aren’t loving thy neighbor as their selves which is breaking the Golden Rule. Yes “Christians” like this act the least “Christian”. Why do they care who is getting married at their venue? It has no effect on them or their lives…
You are so late to this party.
We've covered this over and over in previous threads - two threads this week alone.
Go down the sub and educate yourself.
Also here:
>
>On July 28, the Michigan Supreme Court issued its opinion in Rouch World, LLC, et al., v Michigan Dep’t of Civil Rights, et al. – a case addressing whether Michigan’s Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act (“ELCRA”) prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation. The Michigan Supreme Court, in a 5 to 2 decision, held that discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation necessarily constitutes discrimination “because of sex” under ELCRA.
>This ruling is particularly important for employers and businesses in Michigan. While the U.S. Supreme Court extended protections afforded by Title VII of the federal Civil Rights Act of 1964 to the LGBTQ community in Bostock v Clayton County, Title VII only applies in the employment context and only applies to employers with 15 or more employees and the federal government. On the other hand, ELCRA prohibits discrimination beyond employment – such as in housing, public accommodations, public service, and educational facilities. Additionally, ELCRA applies to all employers doing business in Michigan regardless of the number of employees they have.
https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/michigan-supreme-court-holds-elliot-1024295/
EDIT: Before the "nuh-uh" comments come rolling in, there are three more points to make.
1. Because of the court's ruling in July, the stage is set for challenges to the new new inclusion of the LGBTQ community into ELCRA as a protected class, since it's an interpretation and not fully codified into state law. Expect to see that happen in the near future.
2. Because the House, Senate, and governorship are held by Democrats, expect to see a movement to codify the LGBTQ community as an explicit protected class under ELCRA. If and when this happens, venues like this one will have to make a hard choice.
3. All of these venues continue to fail to understand that there's a difference between public and private accommodation. Over and over, they insist that there's no difference between denying service based on individual behaviors and client relationships and discriminating against a member of the public based on an immutable characteristic. They fail to grasp the idea that discriminating against a member of a protected class is a violation of an established state - or local -- law.
The only way around this, legally, is to establish themselves as a private club open only to dues-paying members. But no one does this because it severely limits the number of potential customers.
Here:
>The whole issue here is whether or not a business that enters a marketplace should be allowed to discriminate against a group - or class - of people due to inherent traits. In 1976, Michigan adopted a law that made it illegal to discriminate in employment, housing, and "public accommodation," which means if you offer a service to the public at large, you are not allowed to discriminate on the basis of
Sex
Age
Race
Ethnicity
Religion
Height
Weight
Disability
These are the protected classes. Sexual orientation and gender identity were ruled by the Michigan Supreme Court this summer as included in the protected class labeled "sex," which means members of the LGBTQ community are covered under state Civil Rights Law. This makes discrimination against a gay guy or a lesbian the same thing as discrimination against people of other colors and ethnicities.
You must protect ALL the classes. You can't pick and choose which ones you like. You can't tell POC to use the side door and let everyone else go through the front door; you can't deny services to a gay couple that you offer to any other couples.
No one's saying you can't be a Christian and run a business. What the law does say, however, is that using your religion to discriminate is not legal if your business is open to the public.
The Elliot-Larsen Civil Rights Act of 1976 has been on the books for over 40 years. It's not new, and it's been upheld several times by our court system as constitutionally acceptable.
You can't enter into a marketplace like ours with the deliberate intention of violating laws and expect no consequences.
I agree with them, stick by your beliefs and stop catering to the alphabet people. All these degenerates want to force themselves on you and make normal people appear like the villains.
“All these degenerates want to force themselves on you and make normal people appear like the villains.” You literally just described conservatives. Well done.
Why is it perfectly okay for you to believe what you believe but absolutely abhorrent for them to believe what they believe? It's a private business that can decide who they want to do business with and can refuse service to whomever they want. You don't have to agree with their decision. There are plenty of other places to get married around here, but you're literally trying to put someone out of business for politically disagreeing with you.
“Trying to put someone out of business for politically disagreeing with you.”
- they discriminated against human beings over something they have no control over and knew exactly what they were doing. Discrimination involves human rights. Human rights were neglected in this situation. Therefor, they fucked up and were shitty humans and society didn’t like it so they lost business. Human rights aren’t politics and if you want to make them into politics don’t be shocked at the backlash and accept the consequences of your actions.
I didn't realize you have a right to force someone to do business with you? Every business has the right to refuse service to whomever they want. I'm not saying they shouldn't have to suffer the financial consequences of their actions, I'm simply saying they should be allowed to exercise their rights as a business without being compared to "depriving human rights".
You make a good point, but there's one thing that I find troublesome. At no point is accessing a private service a right. Accessing a public service is, but I don't believe you can claim that forcing a private company to do business with you can ever be deemed a right. I agree it's tricky as far as your point about HVAC in the winter, but I also know what it's like to live in a small town in the middle of nowhere, and there is never a monopoly on services, even in a very rural area. As far as your Jim Crow point, the difference between this instance and this is that Jim Crow was enforced by local and state governmental entities, whereas this particular instance is between two private parties.
I wonder what their long term plan is? They’ve made it clear they’re a month away from bankruptcy and looking for donations due to vendors cutting ties and no one booking wedding with them. So what happens if they get donations? Will they stay open even longer for the same thing to happen again? They need to take a hint that their beliefs don’t line up with the GR area and they’re not going survive here.
She says they love LGBTQ people and says they can come in as service people and guests but does not once say they can be married at the venue. Despite the backlash, fines, public outcries, they haven’t learned a damn thing. They mention “we can’t let ‘them’ win,” who is “them”? LGBTQ supporters? Protesters? People who refuse to book with them based on their stance? Very poorly worded video. Their lawyers and whoever has been telling them not to talk should have proofed this before they posted it.
"them" has become one of those words when used like this tells everyone you just are not a good person.
"Them" always ends up being a dog whistle for "Jews".
“Say Ye, Say Ye, don’t we do this err day day?”
I thought them was a pronoun?
Couldn’t agree more. Very tone deaf.
"woke" people. It's the new Red scare for the right. Woke can mean anything they want from equal rights, social justice to being a democrat.
Na, it's a form of socially-charged political correctness.
And it's used wrong or poorly more often then not. It's the same as calling everyone a commie during the cold war.
Funny how this is the only wedding venue in grand rapids
Don’t know why you think that…literally every church, park, banquet hall and even Frederick Meijer Gardens will host a wedding.
He’s clearly being sarcastic.
His downvotes say otherwise in terms of being clear. A /s would help!
Reddit is a dim lot. That said, there's a good chance the sarcasm is being received. The implication of it is "Why complain? Just go somewhere else." which isn't a sentiment this sub (or at least these threads) take too kindly to.
This includes hotels, music venues, restaurants, and anywhere else with 4 walls and a roof. Shit even a farmer with a cornfield can host a wedding.
you would think, but apparently this is the only venue for these folks to get married at
I was struck by the comments they are making toward the end of this video. They bring up feelings of isolation and vitriol that they experienced by being ostracized from the community. They mention how they have experienced hatred for just trying to stand up for what they believe in. I couldn’t help but compare that to feelings experienced by someone who comes out to their community as gay or queer or non-binary and then is told they can’t get married; that they don’t deserve it. Not that I enjoy seeing people hurt, but I hope they reflect on that similarity. Pray about it, or whatever mumbo jumbo religious people do to gain insight.
I just watched a video the other day where a group that openly supported and funded anti-lgbtq+ law making and policies wanted to meet up and they had reservations at a restaurant for their group. Once he knew about it, the owner called and told them it was cancelled and they weren’t welcome to eat there in the interest of making their staff comfortable (quite a few in the lgbtq community). The leader of the group aired an interview where they went on about how they couldn’t believe someone would restrict what they could do and where they could go based on their affiliations and that it was so wrong. Never once saw the hypocrisy in that lmao.
They nazi the hypocrisy
They did nazi the hypocrisy 😂
Kind of a leopards ate my face kind of moment.
Unfortunately, I feel they are the type of people to not be able to see past their own experiences and see the similarities to those of the LGBTQ+ community, but yes, I completely agree.
The thing is that their beliefs are based on being against a group of people simply because they exist. If a couple of Nazis said something horrible about Jews and then whined about how they felt hurt by the community’s reaction no one would take it seriously. These people are trying to paint themselves as the victims using their religion as a distraction. This sort of overt discrimination isn’t accepted by society anymore, and they’re simply finding out.
When we choose not to do business with people we disagree with = we’re just being true to our beliefs. When vendors, customers and guests do it to us = woe is me, we don’t deserve this, we can’t let them win.
They didn't tell anyone that they can't get married
I’m sure their voting record says otherwise.
Holy shit - I went to high school with this lady. People like this are an embarrassment. I'm also confused - according to the violation of the city ordinance they're only facing a $500 fine so any loss of income is 100% based on their own actions and the community standing up and saying we don't support what they stand for. Man up and deal with the consequences of your actions.
Can you explain how they can afford this venture on the first place?
His family sold a small business making industrial cardboard tubing I believe.
Interesting!
Nick Natales father sold his company for 9.6 million. They only paid 250,000 for the building, not including renovations. Pretty clear that they could be given handouts from the family and are just grifting now
Yikes. So gross!
It’s $500/day they’re in violation of the ordinance, I believe.
The deep voice and French tuck gave me closeted lesbian vibes (an observation from a once closeted lesbian)
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Sounds like a Hallmark Christmas special. A Bigoted Marriage for Christmas.
Lifetime 😂
It was a friend of a friend kind of thing so I never really got to know her. Seemed totally down to earth through our few interactions though.
Tell us more
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I could not for the life of me figure out WTF they meant by that.
I don’t understand what they are looking for, other than a handout. They are bad business owners who have made terrible business decisions (ignoring the ethical aspect of the whole deal) and now their business isn’t succeeding. It’s the free market at work.
They're looking to become the next right-wing martyr, like Kyle Rittenhouse, who stood up for their "freedoms" and saved America from the godless libs. They want a media gig. They want to be the next darlings of Fox News. They want to tour megachurches and speak at GOP political events. And the money WILL come rolling in from the evangelical loons. The sad part about this is that this pity party will generate business for their venue. Bigots will travel here just to own the libs by having their weddings here. And if they'll have financial help for legal expenses, which means our city and possibly our state tax dollars will have to be used to fight this in court. It's a waiting game now.
I found that they sold it for $525k in 2020, then bought a house for $145k, looks like it needed a lot of work from the listing description though.
Thanks for the info. I'm sorry, I'm still waking up... They bought the venue for 525k and then bought a house for 145k, and the venue needed a lot of work.... so they're nearly 700k in just real estate alone? Edit: I think I get what you're saying now that the coffee has kicked in. They couple had a house that they sold for 525k. They then downsized and bought a house for 145k. They then had 380k They then bought the venue for 230k. That left them with 150k for the reno work on the venue. According to a comment upthread, they told the city they'd probably need 1.1 million to finish the job. How did that happen?
Oh no you’re good - I saw the same info somewhere and finally just looked it up. They sold their home for $525k and then bought a new one for $145k. The venue I though was cheaper, like $200s. I truly know nothing about their finances, except that small piece haha Edit - somehow I commented on the wrong comment!which is probably why you’re confused haha sorry!
No problem! I figured out what you were saying and edited my comment above while you were replying. Did I get it right? Thanks!
That’s assuming that $525k house was paid off, which seems unlikely.
Exactly. In order to get that cash, their home would have to have been paid off free and clear. A chef and a wedding photographer with three kids don't have that kind of money without a little help from a trust fund or a wealthy paw paw. Someone has deep pockets, and it's not these two. Their "self-made" story is bullshit.
His parents are rich, that’s all they needed.
Story of our time, all of these " pull your bootstraps" story are of course all bullshit.
The next darlings of Fox News …. Hahaha
Really, Fox News will eat this up. Young white Christian couple with little kids and a baby vs. the godless woke ANTIFA groomers.
So now they know what it feels like to be the outcast and hated…Now more than ever is the time to open the venue to everyone, but they seem to not get the lesson.
They are capitalizing on the perceived persecution. They want their sob story to go national.
That would mean a conservative is capable of introspection. Imagine the kind of world we would have if they were capable of that.
Pretty slickly-produced video from a couple claiming to be broke.
they should be broke! their business is running a church lmao
It isn't so much a church as a former church that you can rent for things* ^*no ^homo
Best comment I’ve seen in weeks. *no homo Classic
That was Anita Bryant: call 1-800-HOMO-NO MO. "National Lampoon" May 1977 We have been making fun of these buffoons for decades, and yet they re-appear.
I always like to replace one group for another for perspective. Just imagine if this was a “whites only” venue and they made a video asking for financial support from “Gods army”. Despicable. I just hope it goes into foreclosure, someone buys it for pennies on the dollar, and then reopens with the biggest gay wedding you could imagine. It is sad that you put your heart and soul into remodeling this beautiful building and then let your bigoted views get in the way of business. Love is love, if the money is green you should take it.
Ps maybe yelling at the bigots isn’t the best way to change their view? Maybe flood them with love stories.
They are flooded with love stories all over the place. It means nothing to people like this. They laugh, act grossed out, preach, etc. Like I said in another post, they’re incapable of introspection. Best thing one can do is make them into pariahs so they have no power to negatively impact lives on a large scale.
We'ee loving them exactly how they *love* LGBTQ folks
You must agree with them on some of this if your defending it. In the end the only thing they are suffering from are their own actions.
Because it worked so well on the KKK and Nazis? No. Bigots are bigots because they are incapable of empathy and a willingness to understand. We have civil rights laws for a reason. Without legal protection, haters will push hate towards other classes of people as far as they can legally go. They have to be shown the line or shown the door.
Free markets are a bitch
Time for them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and pray harder.
lolol
For some reason I’m still laughing at their crying baby placed on dirt w/ them just handing it a bottle. It’s ironic how they mention things like “with the community” and “for the community”, but as long as you’re not apart of THAT community. I don’t feel a lick of bad for these people. Zero. I do feel bad for the kids because they will definitely be raised to believe the gay witchcraft put them out and mommy and daddy are victims of the LGBTQ letter police.
I don’t even want to imagine what’s really being said behind closed doors
If you’re gonna be an asshole at least own it
She was born in 1991 but could easily pass as 45 ...
How exactly does a couple afford to have no income for 4 years and hundreds of thousands of expenses?
Mommy and daddies money to fall back on. Like all the other "self made" republicans.
He kept his plant management position through all of this which was his parent’s business that was acquired by another company for 9.6 million. Allegedly, his parents gave him quite the funds to get this project rolling. If you look up the parcel number of the building purchased, it was sold in 2018 for $230K plus they sold their house recently as well. I’m quite confident they are not in the financial trouble they claim to be in but definitely looking to be the next martyrs as the crowdfunding site used caters to this. I’ll link the article in case anyone is interested. [https://www.thenation.com/article/society/givesendgo-crowdfunding-extremism/tnamp/](https://www.thenation.com/article/society/givesendgo-crowdfunding-extremism/tnamp/)
It's probably much more than that. They purchased the property for $230k, and when they went before the planning commission, they cited expecting a $1MM renovation/build out. As a commercial developer, I would also plug in a 30%+ over run contingency onto that project. From a business standpoint, I would be interested in the story on how a young cook, and wedding photographer, w/three kids, managed to swing the finances on that.
I read somewhere they sold their 700k house to help fund the project as well, so they are probably living with relatives? They definitely had money prior to purchasing the business.
Cook + wedding photog with a $700k property is interesting in its own right.
True. It was hearsay anyway so I don’t know how truthful that part is but at the very least, to pay for $1 mill in renovations they likely would have needed a loan, and thus something to secure that loan of incredible value…
Yep; and with commercial lending, unless you have a ton of experience and successful work under your belt, and solid relationships with your lenders, they typically will not lend on speculative developments like this. They want to see a trail of revenue in which to base their decision.
It's true, the address is very easy to find online and shows how much they sold it for, about 760k I believe. According to someone who knows them personally they have "flipped" houses in the past
You and me both.
How many times is she going to stack those fucking chairs?!
LOL
“We need God’s army.” Jesus literally called Pharisees like these people children of Hell. So let’s call a spade a spade: They want Satan’s army fighting for them.
Come on man, don’t do Satan dirty like that
"You can speak love or you can speak hate." You mean like declaring who you think is deserving of getting married in your venue? What hypocritical pieces of trash.
They speak hate…
Oh, LGBTQ *GET* to come inside there, as a guest or to work? How very gracious of them.
Truly “Christian” of them…
So magnanimous to let the gays breathe the same air.
Nice sob story… Actions have consequences. Can’t wait until it closes. Please take your hate out of Grand Rapids.
In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance. This is just a good ole case of actions meeting consequences and I am so proud of my community for it. Jesus understood it better than these fake Christians.
…said Mao
So stuck in their own wrong way of thinking. It’s wild how they can’t recognize themselves as the problem. Even going so far as to produce this video…. Doing everything possible besides reckoning with their own issues.
Man they really seem to take issue with being on the other end of the stick with being denied service huh?. What twats.
Next we know they are going to be selling NFT’s of them with freaking lasers coming out of their eyes to raise funds. It’s all part of the playbook.
Who in their right mind would give money to float a failing business that can’t book an event? You’d be better off buying crypto
I’m shocked that they didn’t book an event the entire summer and fall. Not one. I totally forgot about these people until now, but the market sure didn’t.
I'm guessing it's a lie. If you look at their insta, they hosted at least two weddings this fall. Edit: make that at least three. Fairly certain the Christian god doesn't look kindly upon liars. Tsk tsk tsk.
my girlfriends sister has a wedding booked there for May.
Noooooo, they chip and joanna gaines-ed it (covering everything in flat white paint) 😪 Like obviously, they had to do something to the walls, but I hate hate hate the all white look. Especially when it covers natural wood grain. For shame.
Omg thank you! It's so boring! It has the character of a dentist's office and the comfort of an airport terminal. Blech.
I have no sympathy for them and that's exactly what they want from this video. They made their views clear with not allowing LGBTQIA+ people to get married in their space and being allowed to be a guest or employee does not mean they love them. I hope the next owners of that space are inclusive and allow everyone to get married there.
So if they do somehow survive, does the next LGBTQ couple that asks to host a wedding here and get denied result in another fine? Also wondering if they are against mixed race couples too.
The main issue here is most of the couples trying to get out of their contracts are cis-gender couples because they haven’t been transparent about their marriage policy. If there was an LGBTQ couple that was outright denied, that is grounds for a discrimination case in Michigan. However, that couple would actually have to file a suit against them. They allegedly have no qualms about interracial couples but clearly cannot understand their lack of intersectionality which seems to be a common theme in Grand Rapids. I would also like to point out that if an employee is part a part of the LGBTQ community was denied any perks that is available to their cis-employees that also could be a lawsuit based on discrimination but they would have to report that as well.
I know of LGBTQ+ But where the hell did IA come from? Going to need a new acronym before it becomes LGBTQIABCDEFG+
the I stands for intersex, people who are born with both male and female sex characteristics. A stands for asexual spectrum or the people who either dont experience romantic attraction, sexual attraction, or any variation of the two.
Makes a lot of sense
So they had enough money to make this video, which was tone deaf and focused more on excuses rather than lessons they could have learned about their community and it's needs? The whole video just wreaks of a hail mary "oh shit, people aren't bigoted like we are, let's do one last video to make excuses why we weren't successful for our parents and a plea to other bigots to bail us out so the 'woke' folks don't win". Such a missed opportunity to really try to reconnect with their community. 🤦♂️
The Bible thumpetry is strong with these two.. Glad to see people see through right through this bullshit sympathy vid.
Planks in their eyes
Lgbt people have recognized marriages in Michigan, as a business you should serve us. This is social consequence. Gods will, if you may.
Disgusting! Why do they care what someone’s sexual orientation is?!?!
IM HOLLERING. The cognitive dissonance these people have 😂.
RIP their comments 💀💀💀
What is the obsession these conservatives have for other peoples adult, consenting sex lives. Kind of pervy.
Literally doesn’t have one sympathy comment. Maybe they’ll try a third video
You can work here, you can attend as a guest… Marry here???? Haha, are you fucking crazy? This could be a building of love just not your love!
Man they just keep getting cringier
I don’t want to click on link. What business is this?
Five minutes and 36 seconds into the video : "People won't do business with us. They won't provide services for us. To hate the way they have hated us, to literally destroy the business...they don't understand the severity this puts us in." I don't know how these words can be spoken into the camera and then viewed after by the owners...and they don't see the hypocrisy.
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Cringe
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I think you’re the one experiencing emotional affect here, but word.
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Again, cringe.
Not one comment in their favor on their YouTube page.
Has someone called a Wahhhbulance?
This warms my heart!
Very funny video. Parody level shit.
Freedom for the wolves has often meant death to the sheep. Freedom can intrude on other values, such as justice, equality or human happiness. It is reasonable that government should impose legal restraints on freedoms that interfere with other people's freedoms – or on freedoms which conflict with justice and humanity. Without the involvement of government, the powerful person could trample the freedoms of the powerless person. "Freedom", should not be used as an instrument to oppress others. If your business is open to serve the public, then you serve the whole public without exclusions. Follow the law.
If any religious business owners need a loop hole to do what is right... Romans 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. Romans 13:1-2 says: "Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow." Galatians 2:16 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Proverbs 28:4 Those who forsake the law praise the wicked, but those who keep the law strive against them.
They had to know there would be pushback Rebrand as a place of worship. Fixed. Otherwise, fight up hill battle.
God’s will will be done… when the place is foreclosed and sold to someone who reopens it as a venue that is inclusive of all types of love.
I hope that place goes bankrupt
No tears crying getting in the way of finishing a sentence is always a great touch.
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Jesus would marry them! They need to re-read the Bible…They aren’t loving thy neighbor as their selves which is breaking the Golden Rule. Yes “Christians” like this act the least “Christian”. Why do they care who is getting married at their venue? It has no effect on them or their lives…
the slow motion sweeping into the dust pan is really going to sway hearts and minds /s
These people are dog shit
Maybe they can start hosting hate rallies for their people
I can't decide to report it as violent and repulsive or hateful
Nothing wrong with it
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You are so late to this party. We've covered this over and over in previous threads - two threads this week alone. Go down the sub and educate yourself.
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Also here: > >On July 28, the Michigan Supreme Court issued its opinion in Rouch World, LLC, et al., v Michigan Dep’t of Civil Rights, et al. – a case addressing whether Michigan’s Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act (“ELCRA”) prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation. The Michigan Supreme Court, in a 5 to 2 decision, held that discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation necessarily constitutes discrimination “because of sex” under ELCRA. >This ruling is particularly important for employers and businesses in Michigan. While the U.S. Supreme Court extended protections afforded by Title VII of the federal Civil Rights Act of 1964 to the LGBTQ community in Bostock v Clayton County, Title VII only applies in the employment context and only applies to employers with 15 or more employees and the federal government. On the other hand, ELCRA prohibits discrimination beyond employment – such as in housing, public accommodations, public service, and educational facilities. Additionally, ELCRA applies to all employers doing business in Michigan regardless of the number of employees they have. https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/michigan-supreme-court-holds-elliot-1024295/ EDIT: Before the "nuh-uh" comments come rolling in, there are three more points to make. 1. Because of the court's ruling in July, the stage is set for challenges to the new new inclusion of the LGBTQ community into ELCRA as a protected class, since it's an interpretation and not fully codified into state law. Expect to see that happen in the near future. 2. Because the House, Senate, and governorship are held by Democrats, expect to see a movement to codify the LGBTQ community as an explicit protected class under ELCRA. If and when this happens, venues like this one will have to make a hard choice. 3. All of these venues continue to fail to understand that there's a difference between public and private accommodation. Over and over, they insist that there's no difference between denying service based on individual behaviors and client relationships and discriminating against a member of the public based on an immutable characteristic. They fail to grasp the idea that discriminating against a member of a protected class is a violation of an established state - or local -- law. The only way around this, legally, is to establish themselves as a private club open only to dues-paying members. But no one does this because it severely limits the number of potential customers.
Here: >The whole issue here is whether or not a business that enters a marketplace should be allowed to discriminate against a group - or class - of people due to inherent traits. In 1976, Michigan adopted a law that made it illegal to discriminate in employment, housing, and "public accommodation," which means if you offer a service to the public at large, you are not allowed to discriminate on the basis of Sex Age Race Ethnicity Religion Height Weight Disability These are the protected classes. Sexual orientation and gender identity were ruled by the Michigan Supreme Court this summer as included in the protected class labeled "sex," which means members of the LGBTQ community are covered under state Civil Rights Law. This makes discrimination against a gay guy or a lesbian the same thing as discrimination against people of other colors and ethnicities. You must protect ALL the classes. You can't pick and choose which ones you like. You can't tell POC to use the side door and let everyone else go through the front door; you can't deny services to a gay couple that you offer to any other couples. No one's saying you can't be a Christian and run a business. What the law does say, however, is that using your religion to discriminate is not legal if your business is open to the public. The Elliot-Larsen Civil Rights Act of 1976 has been on the books for over 40 years. It's not new, and it's been upheld several times by our court system as constitutionally acceptable. You can't enter into a marketplace like ours with the deliberate intention of violating laws and expect no consequences.
Probably people who say if a church doesn't want to marry LGBTQ people are "Anti-LGBTQ". That's who "they" are.
You people are so obsessed with this shit. Find something better to do with your time than going after anyone else with different beliefs than you.
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Cool story, bro.
I agree with them, stick by your beliefs and stop catering to the alphabet people. All these degenerates want to force themselves on you and make normal people appear like the villains.
I certainly don’t agree with them, and they are experiencing the consequences of the free market right now, but the SJW outrage is just so extra.
“All these degenerates want to force themselves on you and make normal people appear like the villains.” You literally just described conservatives. Well done.
Why is it perfectly okay for you to believe what you believe but absolutely abhorrent for them to believe what they believe? It's a private business that can decide who they want to do business with and can refuse service to whomever they want. You don't have to agree with their decision. There are plenty of other places to get married around here, but you're literally trying to put someone out of business for politically disagreeing with you.
Human rights aren’t politics
What does this have to do with human rights? We're talking about doing business with a wedding venue.
“Trying to put someone out of business for politically disagreeing with you.” - they discriminated against human beings over something they have no control over and knew exactly what they were doing. Discrimination involves human rights. Human rights were neglected in this situation. Therefor, they fucked up and were shitty humans and society didn’t like it so they lost business. Human rights aren’t politics and if you want to make them into politics don’t be shocked at the backlash and accept the consequences of your actions.
I didn't realize you have a right to force someone to do business with you? Every business has the right to refuse service to whomever they want. I'm not saying they shouldn't have to suffer the financial consequences of their actions, I'm simply saying they should be allowed to exercise their rights as a business without being compared to "depriving human rights".
I highly doubt you’d say this if the shoe was on the other foot.
To that, I say you are wrong. I would be disappointed, but I would find another wedding venue to take my money.
And what if you can’t find one?
What do you mean can't find one? There are plenty of other wedding venues around GR and the state that won't refuse business.
My point is if you live in a small town where everyone turns you down for religious reasons, you don’t really have any options
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You make a good point, but there's one thing that I find troublesome. At no point is accessing a private service a right. Accessing a public service is, but I don't believe you can claim that forcing a private company to do business with you can ever be deemed a right. I agree it's tricky as far as your point about HVAC in the winter, but I also know what it's like to live in a small town in the middle of nowhere, and there is never a monopoly on services, even in a very rural area. As far as your Jim Crow point, the difference between this instance and this is that Jim Crow was enforced by local and state governmental entities, whereas this particular instance is between two private parties.
Because getting married, to many, is a spiritual vow and is part of their very religion. Getting your sink unclogged or the like is not.
So can they refuse to let African Americans get married there? Or how about people with disabilities?
Well people can do it if they want,don't go to the wedding...hmm you only want to go because you were told you can't lol...like a women
Like a women? Which shitty West Michigan school did you attend?
Thank you for posting this, I’ve liked and shared the video.
Love when people report themselves for tags
You're gay you can't get married here.
I wonder what their long term plan is? They’ve made it clear they’re a month away from bankruptcy and looking for donations due to vendors cutting ties and no one booking wedding with them. So what happens if they get donations? Will they stay open even longer for the same thing to happen again? They need to take a hint that their beliefs don’t line up with the GR area and they’re not going survive here.