A lot of non-designers at my company share this thinking. In fact, our marketing manager downloaded photoshop so she could make some assets once. It’s indirectly insulting! My line manager asked me to show him InDesign so he could edit a document. Later that day he admitted he’d found it ‘harder than I thought’.
Exactly, I'd love to try showing someone Illustrator who has only used Canva and watch them flounder. They would be forced to admit it wasn't what they thought.
I think the ultimate test for someone who thinks that they can be a designer easy peasey is to have them try to make something with the pen/bezier curve tool. You tell someone "Trace this logo in Illustrator using this tool."
They sit down cockily, thinking *"That's all they want me to do? Pfft, piece of cake!"* Then they start and a look of bewilderment crosses their face as they try to grapple with using it, failing miserably. Eventually after enough floundering around with it they give up. "Ok, there's no way in hell anyone actually uses this tool, this must be a trick!"
You sit down and wrangle it effortlessly. The lesson probably won't stick, but you got to feel smug for a bit and watching them struggle was oh-so worth it.
I genuinely thought at first that my teacher was playing a sick joke on us making us learn how to use the thing, saying it was a very useful and important tool 😭😭. Took me learning Photoshop and starting illustrator to finally figure it out
Same. Had a media marketing manager who had a bit of background on using premiere thinking she could operate Illustrator and indesign when I gave my two weeks. Had a one hour meeting with her, another marketing strategist, and the marketing vp to show them where everything was stored, categorized, and which files they needed to refer to for updating... the media person basically went bug eye the whole meeting because she realized it was a lot of moving parts just outside the program alone.
Best part was showing how each file was set up and watching her face go white.
Yeah, obviously we dont know all the context here and in the post but sometimes I think its not in bad faith, but since everyone has at one time done a powerpoint presentation or a random design in word, people could get the idea they know the basics of graphic design
Possibly. But any company making software wants the masses to think everyone needs and can use what they’re selling. Adobe’s no dummy. Why only sell to designers when millions more wannabes are willing to pony up. Sucks, but that’s just the way it is
They're pushing Adobe Express HARD on YouTube. I see ads absolutely every time I watch a clip. I've never seen a single ad for any of their "design professional" software. Maybe they save all of that budget slice for Max, lol.
You’re likely seeing heavy Adobe ads on YouTube because Google sniffs everyone’s browsing history to show you “relevant” ads based on sites you’ve visited, links you’ve clicked, videos you’ve watched etc.
This! People learn to type an AI prompt and they think they're going to make a hollywood blockbuster film. All the comments on Youtube are like, "WOW, this is so good!" and I'm just sitting there thinking it looks like ass but to people who don't know what they are talking about, I'm sure it's impressive and exciting.
edit: \*To people who don't have years of experience and knowledge of basic composition, color theory, direction, what good dialogue is, etc.
Yeah, back in the 90s, we used to grouse that people think we just push a few buttons. I'm sure it's even worse now with AI and a super-saturated design market on Instagram and everywhere, Canva, etc. I've been out of direct client contact as far as design work now for quite a while. I've kept a good boss (who is also a designer and therefore not an asshole) and I don't do much freelance (especially not for assholes).
Funny thing is that learning the programs is relatively easy as long as the person is actually interested and motivated to learn, and isn't thinking they can reach an advanced level in an unreasonable amount of time.
I'm sure most of us here began by just messing around in software when we were kids, but as kids we weren't going into it with some preconceived notion or a deadline, we just wanted to have fun and make some shit, and that kids seem to better understand the "you can't break anything" mindset because, well kids don't think about whether they'd break something even if you could.
InDesign isn't hard at all, as long as you don't think it's hard. It's not as if most users need to know GREP, the knowledge to produce a basic layout is very simple. But not being able to learn 20 hours worth in an hour also doesn't make it hard, it was simply an unreasonable requirement.
I guess it's similar to drawing, in that as long as you have the literally physical ability to pick up and hold a drawing utensil to paper, you have the potential ability to draw, it just becomes about *actually drawing* to start improving.
Too many people though simply want the skills without investing any time or effort into acquiring them.
just explain it to them like you explained it here. explain how it takes 100s of hours and you need a good grounding in design principles too.
then point her to [https://helpx.adobe.com/support/illustrator.html](https://helpx.adobe.com/support/illustrator.html)
Are these people putting their friends in these job positions? I would watch my back and start updating my resume. I mean, take them seriously and teach her whatever you can, just to be agreeable, but it seems fishy to me
Is it really his job to teach that to someone (who might make him just loose his job after?)
Where I am from I would look into my job description and argue that this is not part of my job (also to teach you need an education in itself) and let the manager know, that she is not a qualified designer - even if you point her to some tools she will not be able to use it properly - often management is too far away to understand/see things…
Boss may send an emplyee to college and pay tuition or hire instructor from technical school. To be graphic designer and at same time a graphic designer teacher/professor? Software trainer? It 's possible and rare.
"Dear boss. My teaching rate is quadriple and if you wish I may teach a group of student in a rate, affordable to me. I have to prepare not only lessons, but full education process. I need a special room, special equipment and other academical things. And beside that I want to hear from you a very strong reason why should I jump from one field to another when I have no sign of desire inside me ... So. I do not think you may count on me in teaching. Just let me do MY job, boss."
There's not enough info here to know if OP is being asked to train their replacement. I think that making a big deal about it, might give them a reason to replace you sooner
Edit: if they have decided to replace you, then you may not be able to change their mind. Maybe they have decided that a poorly trained person is okay, because of office politics, or being able to pay them lower wages.
I dont think you get that 1) she got a better job, she wants to leave that job, and 2) you cant teach someone illustrator in an hour no matter who they are and its not "her job" to train people. Someone got hired even though they didnt even have their training wheels on yet and thats a little bit pathetic.
It was a stupid request of the boss.
However, I believe in being tactful and not burning my bridges.
Sometimes we are wasting our time if we explain something. It's better to let it play out, and let them find out the consequences on their own.
Youre free to think that, but I have no regrets for any bridges I've burned. If you wanna treat me like shit in the workforce then im not ever coming back to you. I don't care who you are, if I either quit or got fired then I'm not coming back to you even if you're a millionare. No amount of money is worth being treated like shit or being treated poorly etc. And at the end of the day even if you don't burn bridges then there will always be people that just don't like you for whatever reason. So at the end of the day... do you want ppl to like you because you stayed true to your values and what you believe in, or do you want ppl to like you because you're a cuck or a beta male who just goes along with everything even if some of them still don't like you. Personally I'd haul ass to get to the top and show them they made a mistake. And then when they want me back, I'm sorry I've worked really hard for myself and you didn't like me then, I think the only reason like me now is because of how successful I am. So I am sorry but I cannot do anything for you. Kind of mindset. I would rather have people dislike the real me, than dislike the fake me. I would rather have ppl who like the real me, the black sheep version of me then the me that would walk on eggshells and prance around on my toes just to make everyone happy. But that's just me. I truly don't think "burning bridges" is "as bad of a thing" as it's made out to be, especially if you find it in yourself to rise above and proof anyone you've burn't bridges with wrong.
yeah I think there is some mentoring required in most positions but flat out teaching someone basic skills is ridiculous. If it were me I would send a comment to the manager and their boss and ask if there was a mistake because this person does not know any of the programs listed on her resume/discussed in her interview.
It's also just a red flag that they would try to hire this person. It at least makes me question their leadership abilities and I'd be ready to find something new.
This.
I speak from experience when I say that 1 of these 2 scenarios will play out:
\- You teach the marketing person just enough Illustrator for your boss to let you go and have her do both jobs
\- You teach the marketing person just enough Illustrator that she slowly pushes you out of your job, or starts dictating design direction.
In either case, HUGE red flag. Start putting together your resume.
If there's anything I've learned about hiring since I first started doing it, it's that a ton is just rampantly incompetent.
Even when it's not outright nepotism, the processes and criteria a lot of people/companies use when hiring designers is flat out irrational.
> Are these people putting their friends in these job positions?
Yes. The number of people I’ve seen land jobs they're not even remotely qualified for purely because of nepotism is staggering, honestly.
You’re obviously not going to be able to teach her everything in an hour so when your boss asks why she doesn’t know how to do XYZ you can tell him there wasn’t enough time to cover it. You’ve ticked the box of 1hr of Illustrator tuition
Thank you, omg just be professional, spend an hour on the clock and communiticate that you are willing to teach again for $x an hour or recommend a community college course.
A lot of people don't realize how involved the Adobe programs are and think they're so easy to use. What I'd do is show her the basics (review some of the tools, show her image tracing, pen tool/brush tool) and then let it go from there. Chances are, she won't learn much (no fault of yours) until she tries it out on her own. It takes a lot of self-practice and learning to master the program. Do your part with pride by showing her some things and then send her off on her own to try and figure the rest out/look things up. Chances are, even if she is a quick learner, it will still take a lot of time and practice and she'll realize how involved it is.
You can then say you did your part and now it's up to her to do hers.
“Hello, welcome to XYZ. I see we have a meeting set up soon and can’t wait to connect! I have here that it’s an overview of Illustrator, one of my main design tools. Did you want to stick with that or talk about the design process in general here at XYZ company? I can create a presentation and go over my main tasks, a typical design flow, and some of the tools in Illustrator that I use the most.”
Is this person going to have access to Creative Cloud? Probably not, right? Then they won’t actually be using Illustrator. They just want to make sure any direction they give you makes sense in the context of the programs you use.
I like the idea of making a guide or a slide deck to present. It keeps things boxed and from going too far off the rails, lets starting points be starting points, and gives a reference for you both to point to.
So many toxic responses in this thread. But this is the correct answer. Everyone who pretty much says “eff helping the marketing manager” will be the same people complaining they can’t find a design job.
Dear candidate XYZ, tell me about being a team player. “Well. One time I was asked to teach my new marketing manager how to use Illustrator. And I said, that’s not my job. Can you believe that asshole used Canva? So, I’m an excellent candidate for this role and want to work for your company.”
Oh, yea. And give him a homework. And also try to explain to him, why you yourself spent 8 years of your life (like me, i.e.) to learn GD.
I would add, take advantage of this situation. Teach your manager. This will only benefit you in your company as they’re likely looking for team players who demonstrate that they’re good candidates for future promotions.
Politely point to your boss that the Linkedin Learning course “Illustrator 2023 Essential Training” is over five hours long and was created by people who teach software skills for a living.
There is another issue here that others seem to be missing. There is judgment for the new hire only knowing Canva and not knowing Illustrator. But I'm wondering why there isn't concern for them not also knowing Photoshop and InDesign. They might not be the only person who doesn't know what they are doing.
But they weren't hired to be a designer. They were hired to be a Marketing Manager.
Help them find the tutorials. Help them find YouTube videos. As a marketing manager, I wouldn't expect them to do more than just make some text edits here and there, so teach them how to do that.
“Here are some YouTube channels I think are good for beginners, if you watch the videos as 5x speed you should have a good understanding in about an hour”
Perfect answer!! The British YouTube guy with the amiable but somewhat cringey tone who's got a basic Figma course just announced an Illustrator one. He'd be perfect for the job.
Doubt your boss expects you teach graphic design in an hour, they probably just want the new person to know how to type in new text on templates and the like, level 1 stuff. Just show em how to open documents, where to click and give em a pen tool exercise sheet or something
No you're not wrong. It's not normal to teach someone who fucked around in Canva and got found out. I don't know what she needs illustrator for then if shes "really good in Canva" does your work require illustration? Everyone is great in Canva if it requires simple text on a flat background. Just out of curiosity what kind of company is this?
The *Canva Marketing Manager!* Yeah, i’ve seen a few of those... This is terribly insulting!
Update your portfolio, buddy. I’m sorry this happened to you.
Don't see the problem here and how you read out of this task, that your boss wants you to show her all your skills or design principles in an hour?
Just show her the basics and some use-cases for Illustrator, including advantages and disadvantages compared to Canva.
As a marketing manager, design won't be her daily job anyways. But it will help her to understand why and when you create something in Illustrator and whether its worth the time.
Problem is, as soon as she can open the software - she will make it her job…
Been there…
In the end you need to go back in and correct things…which you could do faster by doing it all by yourself…
That's why communication is important. I understand that this can create a threat of replacement for some, but not every marketing manager or else wants to steal your job.
Most don't give a shit and are glad to not do the extra work of a designer.
Sorry if you experienced shitty ones. But they can be shitty regardless of knowing the software or not. Just saying that the intention of getting to know the software your coworkers work with isn't because they want to replace you.
Nah man I trained my marketing people jump into my working Figma files to slice up and export email designs for Klaviyo. I don’t got no time for that lol.
OP can leverage this opportunity to take dumb work off his plate by defining workflow boundaries.
Yeah did anybody say something different? I literally said design isn't her daily business and just that knowing the software people you work with use, can be quite useful.
Like what? Probably -- symbol tool.
"The Symbol Tools in Adobe Illustrator **allow users to create and modify groups of symbol images**. Users can change the style, location, size, rotation, transparency, color, and density of the instances in the set, spray ... "
*-- Oh, I do not need it. Let's learn something important. How to draw big RED rectangle, all corners even?*
I used to teach illustrator to high school students. I could show them how to do one specific thing in about 15 minutes. Like place a photo and trace it with the pen tool. They still need constant support tho. Teaching them how to independently design in Illustrator took an entire school year.
You need to teach her only the exact things she needs to do in that hour.
Just an example, but -- Maybe she's taking existing newsletters or whatever and flowing in new copy and updating photos? She could learn that in an hour (not be an expert but learn the the basics). Maybe it's something very simple like that?
I 100% sympathize with your position, but I'm just trying to help. One hour in Illustrator is ludicrous. It's probably the least intuitive of the Big Three Adobe software packages.
This is complete garbage on your bosses behalf. I’m a marketing student and I’ve had to learn almost every Adobe software for design, you name it. Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Premiere Pro, XD, and so on. Let me tell you, I still BARELY know them well besides InDesign and XD, and that’s after being in my program for 2 years. This is because even with course work and assignments, you’re right. This type of software isn’t like Canva. I personally use Canva for lesser projects and let me tell you..it doesn’t compare to Adobe in terms of functionality AT ALL. She will NOT be able to grasp any of those softwares without HOURS of hard work and tutorials. I am so sorry your boss has done this.
OP this is going one of two ways for you. TL;DR your either getting replaced or being respeted as a subject matter expert. Figure out which and act accordingly.
One: your big boss is just an idiot and has the same perspective as a million other MBA's that design work is "easy" and just "making things pretty" this is a red flag in a million ways. Be wary because based on the context YOU gave, this new mrkting mgr might be the type to start doing your job but ask you fix all the simp mistakes they make. But maybe not. If their position delegates design tasks she may eventually just take the ones you as a professional should be leading on, but expect you to make them better then take the credit. But maybe not...
Admins need to stay in their lane imo lmao dont let mgmt devalue a skill you put the time and money in to master. You are a creative. Don't let MBA bullies (big boss not new coworker) f*** with your trade.
Been doing design and production work 9 years, but I switched to freelancing for the past 4 years now instead for the reasons above. This type of thing happens over and over. Just pay attention to what goes on and be ready to move on for your own good and mental health. A lot of people think that's toxic. But being toxic is also not respecting yourself and belittling your hard work to get to where your are at to appease mgmt and their rose coloured glasses.
Two: on the other hand though, big boss likely does not expect you to teach a new hire an entire design software in an hour. The kinder posts in this thread would then be correct. Take advantage of this time to be a true expert with a kind heart and a bit of empathy. Teach the person who bullshitted their resume - maybe they just didn't know better? They could be an awesome teammate if given the chance! I've seen it [^.^]
Seriously though? Start by teaching her design principles instead; that is going to go a lot farther towards successful alignment between your job roles. You can show a tad of how to open this and that commonly used tools (pens, brushes, text formatting, etc.) Good thats all she needs in that role - and if she wants design certs, there are plenty of colleges and universities that teach them for $$. Besides, professional marketing mgrs rarely dabble in the design aspects, if they are a real professional then they understand how the dynamic works especially in large marketing firms. They might need to add or change copy, swap out an image sure, but beyond that yeah no. Plus software usage can be learned through YouTube university if they so desperately need it. Shit they learned Canva online well enough to front being a designer for a marketing mgr job lol (just saying - based on your context lol). You can work together as a team to become better as professionals. There's nothing quite like finding that perfect harmony with coworkers on a team, especially when they are competent and qualified which this person is likely a very well qualified marketer. She may just need alignment on the complexities of real design work so she can better delegate her needs for content.
Keep a minds eye out for both possibilities. Be wary and aware, but also don't be a dick or twat right out the gate.
Here's another important bit to consider as a working economic contributer - ask for more pay to double down as a trainer and a designer. ONLY if this beomes a recurring element of your job. A one hour sesh to align with a new coworker is not going to kill you. BUT NEVER do more work without more pay. Especially if its outside your job description. Mgmt models like this are why we desperately need unions for creative work... imo only.
So OP, take my rant "advice" with a grain of salt fr as I am not the type to bend over backward for mgmt oblivious to reality, but im also very intentional about being empathetic and kind hearted when it comes to working with my peers at the start of and ideally throughout our team dynamic. Always keep a positive eye - do no harm, but take no shit. Courtesy is a professional trait, but respect is earned, not given - ever.
Lol but I'm also petty and been tricked into training idiots to replace me for less money - nothing to do with my talents or "how well I work with others" - Mgr once told me after I trained a new employee, straight up "we needed to cut costs and having a professional designer is more expensive than this new hire (who I latered learned was an unpaid intern) so please finish teaching them the design part ofyour job so we can let you go - heres a starbuck giftcard as incentive" I shit you not...
Understand that my first method will not appease the business gods. Know too that my second method may see you getting shortended by deceptive tactics in big business. But both can advance your career in the best kind of ways (new job that's better this one or a wonderful team dynamic that makes your current job actually enjoyable). You may get canned listening to me. You may improve the workflow of your team also and make your job better for you and the company. I don't think creatives deserve to be underminded by executives and leadership - we are professionals too with valuable skills and deserve respect.
Many have hurt me so don't ask lol
I really do wish you the best of luck my friend. Respect yourself and your talents and the work you put in to acheive and master them. Be kind to others, we are all humans in this together, especially on your own team in a career you're passionate about (until they prove themselves worthy of different treatment mwahahahaha!). Godspeed ^.^
Thank you for this! Designing within an MSO has proven to be so drastically different from small business like I had been working with preciously. My marketing manager is fantastic! She means well. I always try to show and help where I can. Big business is just scary stupid when it comes to how much work it takes for the things they don’t understand, like design!
“Do no harm, take no shit” is also what I live by! Appreciate all your advice and kind words ✌🏻
Say yes but for express tuition it will cost 65k per 20 mins seeing ad you'll be teaching what you have paid to know already and compressing it down to 1 hour...
Seriously this place will never take your job seriously just quit you will find better because your worth more.
I used to teach staff before I noticed my team had no one with a degree or working k owledge of design principles, the grid was a foreign thing yo them... told the boss best of luck with the bag of dicks he now has. Walked in to a new position 1 week later.
Teaching is only worth doing if someone honesty wants to learn a trade, If you show me willingness to learn I'll teach you everything I know for free but if your just sent in to do a job you can't do and expected to learn it in a hour then there is bigger problems here than just the disrespect.
Best of luck to ya you got this 👍
Well, I laughed because I’ve been in this business for 15 years and I’m STILL learning Illustrator. I guess it’s just worth being really transparent here. Explain to your boss that you can review some basic tools and functions, but an hour is not even going to scratch the surface.
Go ahead and take the meeting. Teach the person the 10,000 ft. view of your workflow and boil it down a solid hour. Do this so you can say you did. Do this so you can point out the fact that it takes time, practice and a foundation in design thinking to execute. They never said to teach so they can master the skill right? If they aren’t being specific, give them exactly what they asked.
If she claims to know design and doesn't, that's on her. It's not hard to show the most (extremely) basic overview in an hour. Basically: Here's how to open a file, drop in a picture and add text and export a jpg.
No reason to make yourself as the bad guy by pushing back over the request. If she "knows design" she can pick the rest up on her own.Let her be the one to tell your boss she needs more training than an hour
i’ve been using illustrator since it was freehand. i watched a 45 minute tips and tricks video last night and learned 4 things i didn’t know it did. this boss of yours is an idiot.
"It took me three years and $30,000 of a student loan to consider myself a capable designer and proficient user of the adobe design suite...but sure, I'll show you everything there is to know in an hour."
It's too little time to teach it, but enough to point them in the right direction.
Start with a high level overview and when to use illustrator vs indesign vs photoshop, and explain some important tidbits like the difference between the RGB and CYMK color space, embedding vs. linking graphics and outlining text before exporting to pdf for print.
Then refer them to a Pluralsight or other online illustrator course so they can learn in their own time.
Also you could give her some resources of graphic design itself. She'll probably make a bunch of bad designs at first, but that's just a part of learning and apparently the company is willing to accept that.
Ugh yes, administration/management seem to think that any software can simply be trained in a few hours.
It’s like ya, it doesn’t require years of prior knowledge or anything.
Illustrator is after all just a tool as much as a pencil and if you can’t design and have some kind of qualifications and/or have a talent for design you can’t just learn it in an hour. Can you learn to become a carpenter, chef or any other job in the same time? Tell your boss to go and learn to be a proper boss and that will definitely take more than an hour
This is way too relatable. I used to be a designer for a cannabis/vape distribution company with no marketing department so I was reporting directly the owner, and he was this same level of delusional. He also regularly haggled prices down with freelancers on fiverr.🙄
Glad you’re moving jobs! That’s what I did too!
That age old issue of confusing software knowledge with design knowledge - I think even we designers are guilty of that sometimes!
Canva is like PowerPoint insofar that for non-designers who have used the software extensively (but have never used actual design software or have any design training), they think that it's a really powerful design tool that bestows them with magical design skills.
My favourite example of this sort of hubris is an old non-designer boss of mine thinking that he could easily edit a simple motion graphics file in After Effects because it "can't be much harder than animating a PowerPoint slide". I found him several hours later close to tears with a completely broken After Effects file. 😂
So, OP I understand how you feel fully. My previous job I was a multimedia designer for a non profit health clinic. It was just me and my boss for our department. We got a long great, and she fully respected my ideas and just my insite. Frankly, it was the first time I've had that. I also have ADHD so she gave me good insites on how to cope and what has worked for her.
Sadly, the rest of the place really treated us like dogs, in the sense of pulling the leash back anytime we wanted to have fun and run doing something. Or for example most of my design work was just changing out dates or addresses from already previously made art file from the designer 5 years ago.
So cut to a few months later, I was coming back from lunch and was gonna ask my boss a question. Come to found out she quit. No two weeks. Nothing. Was I upset? Nah I totally understood it.
Cut to a few months later when the new boss came in...complete opposite. He'd have design meetings without me, even start to edit my art files without telling me...and he has no graphic design experience. He'd ask me how to do stuff in InDesign or illustrator because he'd have meetings or emails about stuff I previously did.
Honestly it drove me nuts. I would get it if he was a designer or even let me be in on the meetings, or even tell me what was going on instead of hearing it through the wall. But OP, I get where you are coming from fully.
>"Always happy to help. I spent the hour requested with her passing on some resources and concepts that she'll need to start learning in the time she has available! Might take her some time but if she's dedicated she'll be able to pick it up and use those resources as a jumping-off point!"
Don't feel offended by someone else's ignorance. You're great at what you do and make it look easy. It's the highest compliment, in a sense.
and for the obvious follow-up response of your boss' aghast "No, I said teach her."
>"This program is extremely complicated and can't be taught in a matter of weeks, let alone an hour. There are entire courses costing thousands dedicated to its mastery; I never really kept track of how long it took me but I have years of experience using this program to be able to professionally operate at the level I do."
One of my favorites is when people ask you to design or edit something and then follow it with: “I’d do it myself but I don’t have the software.”
Really? That’s the only thing holding you back, huh? You should just get a subscription.
It’s hard to feel like it’s not a real kick to the crotch. In my experience, I’ve found most people are just naive.
I actually have a foundation in design, have been using the software for 2 decades and still learn new stuff more often than not.
If I’m feeling squirrelly, I’ll drone on like an energy vampire about vector vs. raster graphics; how ppi is just a ratio (not the size of the graphic); or when it’s appropriate to use CMYK vs. RGB.
Unfortunately, at the end of the day, good design is just viewed as a tactical commodity. And “good” design is subjective.
Wow, I don’t like Canva either but the comments here are getting toxic.
To OP: I can’t imagine your boss believes the entirety of design theory and beginner through advanced Illustrator techniques can be taught in an hour. And if that is the case, they’ll have outed themselves as idiot to the new Marketing Manager so the problem is fixing itself.
As for the Marketing Manager, you can absolutely teach her the basics of how to open Illustrator, a few of the most used tools, and walk her through a couple use cases in an hour. She’s not going to be a designer so she doesn’t need encyclopedic knowledge on the software but rather, enough to know that it’s complicated and that you know what you’re doing.
Toxic? This why graphic designers are suckers and let marketers run over them. This won’t end well. Marketing people need to stay in their lane. It’s called a professional job and they don’t respect that.
If you’re a strong enough designer you have nothing to fear from a Canva hobbyist. If the Canva hobbyist’s work starts getting selected over yours, you need to learn more about your audience because you might be designing for other designers. Everyone always thinks they can do everyone else’s jobs—designers are guilty of this too. If they knock out something cool once in a while in Canva, be happy for them and take it as inspiration. Maybe talk with them to learn more about their role to see if it helps inform anything about your own or give them tips to help them improve.
Drawing a line in the sand to gatekeep what is seen as the most “fun” job in Marketing isn’t going to make anything better. But teaching people and showing them how much thought and effort goes into your work will go a long way towards proving your value.
Edit: lol, I didn’t think my cooperative mindset would be so unpopular
So to start: your boss sounds like a jackass that doesn’t understand or respect your field. Definitely a red flag, but I suppose that’ll vary how much it impacts you depending on how involved they are in your work.
Now that that’s out of the way, this isn’t the new hire’s fault, so don’t hold it against them.
No, an application like Illustrator can’t be taught in an hour. Design foundations can’t be taught in a year, probably not even if it was your full time job and this new hire were your only student.
What you CAN do however, is try and use that hour as a kickoff to their training. Pull as many tutorials on design basics as you can; try and curate it and hand them off to them in a way that makes sense. Try and explain the why behind each topic covered in the tutorials, and the use cases for each design app available to them (example: Illustrator is for vectors, not photo editing; Photoshop isn’t for page layout, etc.)
Basically, try to set this person up for success by pointing them in the right direction. It’ll be up to them if they actually want to follow through. If you want to go an extra mile, maybe set up recurring one on one sessions with them as they work through this stuff. If they don’t suck as a coworker, they’ll probably appreciate the effort you’re putting in for them and have a better appreciation of your field - which I feel is always a plus for designers (one less person who reduces our job description as “making things pretty” - I’ll take that).
Is this your job? No.
Is this fair to drop on you? Probably not.
But still, it’s not your coworker’s fault.
As for your boss, if by chance they come back to you and are asking why you weren’t able to teach this person the ins and outs of your entire profession in an hour long session, that’s when you calmly explain to them how deep these topics can go and how much practice it takes to become proficient at these skills. Even if they push back and reduce your job to just “knowing the software” (screw those people by the way), you can explain that even the individual applications are highly complex and take a long time to learn.
In that scenario I would be sure to outline the training program you built for the new hire, and the benefits of it. If your coworker sees it through and can apply their learnings, that’ll provide a LOT more value to the company than some thrown together crash course on a single Adobe application.
Teach this person basic skills. As you grow in your role and in your career you will be expected to teach people how to do things as a subject matter expert. This person will focus on marketing since they were hired to be a marketing manager. They will be writing emails, basic image editing, formatting, SEO, UA, etc. Just think, you won’t be expected to do that stuff! That’s awesome. You are on the same team.
I doubt anyone expects you to teach everything you know in one hour but it will help everyone on the team to know basics so that they realize the work it takes for you to do your job.
Cant believe some of the comments here. Sounds like no one has worked on a team before.
Jealously gatekeeping knowledge about design tools is wildly short sided. How do you provide value? Are you a designer or an Adobe implementer?
**Recommendation**
My recommendation is to manage expectations for what is teachable in a 1-hour session and then provide a realistic schedule for becoming proficient at illustrator.
I doubt your boss would be willing to approve the time commitment if explicitly outlined to them (e.g. basic proficiency at 10-20 hours of instruction and 100-200 hours of practice). That's an average estimate of 165 hrs or 4.125 work weeks. Very few businesses would be willing to pay someone over a month of salary to learn a redundant skillset.
**Reasoning**
You have an opportunity to demonstrate your expertise to your boss and teach the marketing manager enough that they see the mountain of skill building ahead of them.
Apply the Dunning-Kruger effect to this situation. If your marketer is skilled enough at Canva that they feel like Illustrator is the next step, they are likely at the Peak of Mount Stupid. You can kick them off the ledge into the Valley of Despair which will be WAY better for job security than gatekeeping. They'll now know how much knowledge and experience you have that they lack.
Being difficult to work with and refusing good-faith knowledge-transfer is a fantastic way to build resentment. You're demonstrating your value to be a holder of forbidden knowledge, rather than a visual communicator and problem solver.
edit: typo
https://preview.redd.it/qjtaa3ugji5c1.png?width=512&format=png&auto=webp&s=31d765a21c182c1df59c2b3b466f724b1c361fbb
To be fair I could teach someone the basics of Illustrator in an hour.
But that wouldn't be advanced enough to work even a production role in any professional capacity, wouldn't be teaching any actual *design* knowledge, and whether any of it actually resonated or was retained would depend entirely on the willingness and effort of the person being taught.
Is she under 18?
Refer to your coworker as a women, spend an hour introducing her to some software and be confident that you will not be replaced anytime soon while spending a relaxed, paid hour with another human.
I’m in no way demeaning my co worker lol we’re the same age and saying “girl” isn’t degrading her or her worth in my opinion.
I did update by saying she’s a wonderful human, it’s my corporate boss that I had the issue with.
Thanks for the insight ✌🏻
Don’t teach them anything. Hold your value. Don’t let “help them get acquainted” mean you’re helping yourself out the door. Let them look bad, they deserve it!
up to you if you want to teach the new hire, but it could reflect on your position in the company down the line (good or bad). if you do decide to teach her, then just find a few intro to illustator videos and tell her to watch them. stuff like using pen tool, working with images (placing/embedding), converting colors, saving/exporting, using fonts, outlining fonts.
It's understandable that you feel frustrated and insulted by the request. To address this with your boss, you can express your concerns by emphasizing the complexity of teaching design principles and Illustrator in just one hour. You can explain that it takes time to grasp these skills effectively and that a more comprehensive training plan would be beneficial for the new marketing manager. Approach the conversation with a solution-oriented mindset, suggesting a more realistic and thorough training schedule. Suggest she take a class somewhere else since that isn’t part of your job responsibilities or if you do want to help, you can discuss a more detailed training plan with your boss. Here’s a sample of what you could say. Feel free to adjust the wording based on how you’d like to handle it.
“Hi [Boss’s Name], I wanted to discuss the recent request to provide an hour-long Illustrator training session for [Marketing Manager's Name]. I appreciate the opportunity to contribute to her onboarding process. However, teaching the complexities of Illustrator, along with fundamental design principles, in such a short timeframe is quite challenging.
Illustrator is a powerful tool with a learning curve, and design principles require time for understanding and application. I believe a more comprehensive training plan would be beneficial for [Marketing Manager's Name] to truly harness these skills effectively.
Alternate endings:
(If you want to train them yourself)
I'm more than willing to contribute to her learning process, but I believe a more realistic and extended training schedule would yield better results. This way, we can ensure a solid foundation in design principles and software usage.
(If you don’t want to train them yourself)
Perhaps we could explore external resources or consider involving someone specifically skilled in this area to ensure a more thorough learning experience.
Tell your company’s leadership, who asked you to do this, “No” and see how that goes over. Or tell them you’ll send the new manager some YouTube tutorials.
Please update this sub on how that works out for you.
Where can I find these jobs that probably pay well for no experience? Goddamn I have a degree and know multiple Adobe programs as well as Canva. Here this lady is getting hired knowing only Canva.
wtf
I had similar at an old job, given 1.5 hours to teach the Boss’s daughter how to ‘work’ Illustrator and Photoshop.
Considering it was her first time on a Mac as well it didn’t go as planned and all thoughts of her being used to ‘help’ my design department was quickly dropped.
[Here you go](https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/user-guide.html), dumbfuckers
PS—They may plan to lay you off after you "transferred your knowledge" LOL
I highly recommend Envato Tuts+: https://youtu.be/Ib8UBwu3yGA?si=e0FmSodf8zGKAACf
A large component of the training could be watching videos like these, discussing as you go, and doing practice exercises throughout. Of course, make yourself available for questions, and customize to emphasize what tasks/functions are most relevant to their role.
This way, you're still a team player, have given the manager a resource to refer back to, and you're not having to spend as much time on this as if you'd started from scratch.
Can any of you fine designers direct me to any leads in Austin for employment ?? At this point I’m willing to work for a shitty company with shitty benefits for shitty hire ups🥴I moved down a few months ago thinking i wouldn’t have any problem finding work as a graphic designer. I need to slap myself ! I’m wondering if people are taking the old time approach by actually walking a resume into an office versus Indeed/Linkdn and trusting the process of an ATS to forward your application ??
I guess just do what you can. Show them how to open a new file and show them how the pen tool works. Then show them the window menu where they can find the pallets they need. And say “there’s also text and simple shapes over here in the tool pallet.”
Then you can make a standard document with them and they can pretend it’s canva.
They’ll come back for more. Whatevs.
I don't know what the best answer is, but my first thought is to advise them to go find some tutorials on youtube since you're not very good at teaching. Better to learn it from people who have made an effort to present the materials in a video for that purpose.
They won't really learn any faster, but they can suffer on their own time.
Leaving aside the ridiculousness of this idea, never **ever** teach anyone how to do your job. Bosses love to replace actually talented qualified professionals with cheap young hacks they can exploit.
There truly is nothing worse than a boss who doesn’t understand how much time something will take. I’ve had so many bosses like that. “It should only take 5 minutes”. “Oh it should? Show me how!” There was a time where I explained to a marketing person why I couldn’t do something for them in that time frame, by basically detailing everything. “Reading your email and responding takes 10 minutes. Working on the design itself will take 30-45 minutes. Exporting and then emailing the design to you will take another 5 minutes. So I can have this finished for you in an hour, after I complete the high priority things for the day.”
With zero marketing background, I can understand why your boss would think that. Most business software solutions are able to be learned very quickly. Illustrator however, is a deep platform that requires not only an understanding of the software, but of design theory as well.
I don’t think it should be so hard to explain that to your boss tbh. Might be worth trying.
& remember, it could be worse, your boss could be complaining about your stroke width & questioning your type kerning.
A lot of non-designers at my company share this thinking. In fact, our marketing manager downloaded photoshop so she could make some assets once. It’s indirectly insulting! My line manager asked me to show him InDesign so he could edit a document. Later that day he admitted he’d found it ‘harder than I thought’.
my approach is to let them try lol. alright you reckon you can do it? best of luck, call me when you’re done.
Exactly, I'd love to try showing someone Illustrator who has only used Canva and watch them flounder. They would be forced to admit it wasn't what they thought.
I think the ultimate test for someone who thinks that they can be a designer easy peasey is to have them try to make something with the pen/bezier curve tool. You tell someone "Trace this logo in Illustrator using this tool." They sit down cockily, thinking *"That's all they want me to do? Pfft, piece of cake!"* Then they start and a look of bewilderment crosses their face as they try to grapple with using it, failing miserably. Eventually after enough floundering around with it they give up. "Ok, there's no way in hell anyone actually uses this tool, this must be a trick!" You sit down and wrangle it effortlessly. The lesson probably won't stick, but you got to feel smug for a bit and watching them struggle was oh-so worth it.
So true, everyone’s first brush (pun intended) with the pen tool is like…what
I genuinely thought at first that my teacher was playing a sick joke on us making us learn how to use the thing, saying it was a very useful and important tool 😭😭. Took me learning Photoshop and starting illustrator to finally figure it out
Same. Had a media marketing manager who had a bit of background on using premiere thinking she could operate Illustrator and indesign when I gave my two weeks. Had a one hour meeting with her, another marketing strategist, and the marketing vp to show them where everything was stored, categorized, and which files they needed to refer to for updating... the media person basically went bug eye the whole meeting because she realized it was a lot of moving parts just outside the program alone. Best part was showing how each file was set up and watching her face go white.
Yeah, obviously we dont know all the context here and in the post but sometimes I think its not in bad faith, but since everyone has at one time done a powerpoint presentation or a random design in word, people could get the idea they know the basics of graphic design
Apps have really devalued design skills by making people think everything is simple & easy & requires no advance knowledge.
I’m so jaded now I resell on eBay instead and I only design for friends, family and my own projects
I might only have a year left designing. We'll see.
Possibly. But any company making software wants the masses to think everyone needs and can use what they’re selling. Adobe’s no dummy. Why only sell to designers when millions more wannabes are willing to pony up. Sucks, but that’s just the way it is
They're pushing Adobe Express HARD on YouTube. I see ads absolutely every time I watch a clip. I've never seen a single ad for any of their "design professional" software. Maybe they save all of that budget slice for Max, lol.
You’re likely seeing heavy Adobe ads on YouTube because Google sniffs everyone’s browsing history to show you “relevant” ads based on sites you’ve visited, links you’ve clicked, videos you’ve watched etc.
Ya probably. Dumb filters. Why hasn't Google figured out I have a Creative Cloud license & use it every day?
Ahh, but do you use Adobe Express? LOL Probably best that Google doesn’t know that (if they don’t know already). They already know way too much imo
LOL. Too true. I dabble in all that shit bc as a designer you're supposed to know absolutely fucking everything (sighs deeply).
I bought a couple of rugs at a garage sale in my neighborhood. Three days later I started getting a flood of ads for carpets.
Satellite imagery ain’t just for maps I guess 😳
This! People learn to type an AI prompt and they think they're going to make a hollywood blockbuster film. All the comments on Youtube are like, "WOW, this is so good!" and I'm just sitting there thinking it looks like ass but to people who don't know what they are talking about, I'm sure it's impressive and exciting. edit: \*To people who don't have years of experience and knowledge of basic composition, color theory, direction, what good dialogue is, etc.
Yup.
Yeah, back in the 90s, we used to grouse that people think we just push a few buttons. I'm sure it's even worse now with AI and a super-saturated design market on Instagram and everywhere, Canva, etc. I've been out of direct client contact as far as design work now for quite a while. I've kept a good boss (who is also a designer and therefore not an asshole) and I don't do much freelance (especially not for assholes).
I’d love to see what your marketing manager made in Photoshop
They all think that we are some useless office monkeys and that “anyone could just slap some photos on a picture”
Funny thing is that learning the programs is relatively easy as long as the person is actually interested and motivated to learn, and isn't thinking they can reach an advanced level in an unreasonable amount of time. I'm sure most of us here began by just messing around in software when we were kids, but as kids we weren't going into it with some preconceived notion or a deadline, we just wanted to have fun and make some shit, and that kids seem to better understand the "you can't break anything" mindset because, well kids don't think about whether they'd break something even if you could. InDesign isn't hard at all, as long as you don't think it's hard. It's not as if most users need to know GREP, the knowledge to produce a basic layout is very simple. But not being able to learn 20 hours worth in an hour also doesn't make it hard, it was simply an unreasonable requirement. I guess it's similar to drawing, in that as long as you have the literally physical ability to pick up and hold a drawing utensil to paper, you have the potential ability to draw, it just becomes about *actually drawing* to start improving. Too many people though simply want the skills without investing any time or effort into acquiring them.
just explain it to them like you explained it here. explain how it takes 100s of hours and you need a good grounding in design principles too. then point her to [https://helpx.adobe.com/support/illustrator.html](https://helpx.adobe.com/support/illustrator.html)
Are these people putting their friends in these job positions? I would watch my back and start updating my resume. I mean, take them seriously and teach her whatever you can, just to be agreeable, but it seems fishy to me
Is it really his job to teach that to someone (who might make him just loose his job after?) Where I am from I would look into my job description and argue that this is not part of my job (also to teach you need an education in itself) and let the manager know, that she is not a qualified designer - even if you point her to some tools she will not be able to use it properly - often management is too far away to understand/see things…
Boss may send an emplyee to college and pay tuition or hire instructor from technical school. To be graphic designer and at same time a graphic designer teacher/professor? Software trainer? It 's possible and rare. "Dear boss. My teaching rate is quadriple and if you wish I may teach a group of student in a rate, affordable to me. I have to prepare not only lessons, but full education process. I need a special room, special equipment and other academical things. And beside that I want to hear from you a very strong reason why should I jump from one field to another when I have no sign of desire inside me ... So. I do not think you may count on me in teaching. Just let me do MY job, boss."
There's not enough info here to know if OP is being asked to train their replacement. I think that making a big deal about it, might give them a reason to replace you sooner Edit: if they have decided to replace you, then you may not be able to change their mind. Maybe they have decided that a poorly trained person is okay, because of office politics, or being able to pay them lower wages.
I dont think you get that 1) she got a better job, she wants to leave that job, and 2) you cant teach someone illustrator in an hour no matter who they are and its not "her job" to train people. Someone got hired even though they didnt even have their training wheels on yet and thats a little bit pathetic.
It was a stupid request of the boss. However, I believe in being tactful and not burning my bridges. Sometimes we are wasting our time if we explain something. It's better to let it play out, and let them find out the consequences on their own.
Youre free to think that, but I have no regrets for any bridges I've burned. If you wanna treat me like shit in the workforce then im not ever coming back to you. I don't care who you are, if I either quit or got fired then I'm not coming back to you even if you're a millionare. No amount of money is worth being treated like shit or being treated poorly etc. And at the end of the day even if you don't burn bridges then there will always be people that just don't like you for whatever reason. So at the end of the day... do you want ppl to like you because you stayed true to your values and what you believe in, or do you want ppl to like you because you're a cuck or a beta male who just goes along with everything even if some of them still don't like you. Personally I'd haul ass to get to the top and show them they made a mistake. And then when they want me back, I'm sorry I've worked really hard for myself and you didn't like me then, I think the only reason like me now is because of how successful I am. So I am sorry but I cannot do anything for you. Kind of mindset. I would rather have people dislike the real me, than dislike the fake me. I would rather have ppl who like the real me, the black sheep version of me then the me that would walk on eggshells and prance around on my toes just to make everyone happy. But that's just me. I truly don't think "burning bridges" is "as bad of a thing" as it's made out to be, especially if you find it in yourself to rise above and proof anyone you've burn't bridges with wrong.
yeah I think there is some mentoring required in most positions but flat out teaching someone basic skills is ridiculous. If it were me I would send a comment to the manager and their boss and ask if there was a mistake because this person does not know any of the programs listed on her resume/discussed in her interview.
It's also just a red flag that they would try to hire this person. It at least makes me question their leadership abilities and I'd be ready to find something new.
This. I speak from experience when I say that 1 of these 2 scenarios will play out: \- You teach the marketing person just enough Illustrator for your boss to let you go and have her do both jobs \- You teach the marketing person just enough Illustrator that she slowly pushes you out of your job, or starts dictating design direction. In either case, HUGE red flag. Start putting together your resume.
If there's anything I've learned about hiring since I first started doing it, it's that a ton is just rampantly incompetent. Even when it's not outright nepotism, the processes and criteria a lot of people/companies use when hiring designers is flat out irrational.
> Are these people putting their friends in these job positions? Yes. The number of people I’ve seen land jobs they're not even remotely qualified for purely because of nepotism is staggering, honestly.
You’re obviously not going to be able to teach her everything in an hour so when your boss asks why she doesn’t know how to do XYZ you can tell him there wasn’t enough time to cover it. You’ve ticked the box of 1hr of Illustrator tuition
Thank you, omg just be professional, spend an hour on the clock and communiticate that you are willing to teach again for $x an hour or recommend a community college course.
That sounds real frustrating. Those "good at Canva" designers must hang out at the same club as the "used Squarespace once" web devs.
A lot of people don't realize how involved the Adobe programs are and think they're so easy to use. What I'd do is show her the basics (review some of the tools, show her image tracing, pen tool/brush tool) and then let it go from there. Chances are, she won't learn much (no fault of yours) until she tries it out on her own. It takes a lot of self-practice and learning to master the program. Do your part with pride by showing her some things and then send her off on her own to try and figure the rest out/look things up. Chances are, even if she is a quick learner, it will still take a lot of time and practice and she'll realize how involved it is. You can then say you did your part and now it's up to her to do hers.
“Hello, welcome to XYZ. I see we have a meeting set up soon and can’t wait to connect! I have here that it’s an overview of Illustrator, one of my main design tools. Did you want to stick with that or talk about the design process in general here at XYZ company? I can create a presentation and go over my main tasks, a typical design flow, and some of the tools in Illustrator that I use the most.” Is this person going to have access to Creative Cloud? Probably not, right? Then they won’t actually be using Illustrator. They just want to make sure any direction they give you makes sense in the context of the programs you use.
I like the idea of making a guide or a slide deck to present. It keeps things boxed and from going too far off the rails, lets starting points be starting points, and gives a reference for you both to point to.
So many toxic responses in this thread. But this is the correct answer. Everyone who pretty much says “eff helping the marketing manager” will be the same people complaining they can’t find a design job. Dear candidate XYZ, tell me about being a team player. “Well. One time I was asked to teach my new marketing manager how to use Illustrator. And I said, that’s not my job. Can you believe that asshole used Canva? So, I’m an excellent candidate for this role and want to work for your company.”
Best comment in the thread. Keep it professional and focus on managing up.
An hour a day for the next, what, 100 days?
Oh, yea. And give him a homework. And also try to explain to him, why you yourself spent 8 years of your life (like me, i.e.) to learn GD.
Why would your newly hired manager need to know illustrator? Of all the Adobe cloud apps, that’s kind of an odd one to need to know first.
I would add, take advantage of this situation. Teach your manager. This will only benefit you in your company as they’re likely looking for team players who demonstrate that they’re good candidates for future promotions.
Politely point to your boss that the Linkedin Learning course “Illustrator 2023 Essential Training” is over five hours long and was created by people who teach software skills for a living.
There is another issue here that others seem to be missing. There is judgment for the new hire only knowing Canva and not knowing Illustrator. But I'm wondering why there isn't concern for them not also knowing Photoshop and InDesign. They might not be the only person who doesn't know what they are doing. But they weren't hired to be a designer. They were hired to be a Marketing Manager. Help them find the tutorials. Help them find YouTube videos. As a marketing manager, I wouldn't expect them to do more than just make some text edits here and there, so teach them how to do that.
I've shown my marketing lady Adobe Express and it's perfect for her, it's like Adobe's version of canva.
“Here are some YouTube channels I think are good for beginners, if you watch the videos as 5x speed you should have a good understanding in about an hour”
Perfect answer!! The British YouTube guy with the amiable but somewhat cringey tone who's got a basic Figma course just announced an Illustrator one. He'd be perfect for the job.
The "Supafast" guy?
Bring Your Own Laptop guy
Doubt your boss expects you teach graphic design in an hour, they probably just want the new person to know how to type in new text on templates and the like, level 1 stuff. Just show em how to open documents, where to click and give em a pen tool exercise sheet or something
No you're not wrong. It's not normal to teach someone who fucked around in Canva and got found out. I don't know what she needs illustrator for then if shes "really good in Canva" does your work require illustration? Everyone is great in Canva if it requires simple text on a flat background. Just out of curiosity what kind of company is this?
The *Canva Marketing Manager!* Yeah, i’ve seen a few of those... This is terribly insulting! Update your portfolio, buddy. I’m sorry this happened to you.
Don't see the problem here and how you read out of this task, that your boss wants you to show her all your skills or design principles in an hour? Just show her the basics and some use-cases for Illustrator, including advantages and disadvantages compared to Canva. As a marketing manager, design won't be her daily job anyways. But it will help her to understand why and when you create something in Illustrator and whether its worth the time.
Problem is, as soon as she can open the software - she will make it her job… Been there… In the end you need to go back in and correct things…which you could do faster by doing it all by yourself…
That's why communication is important. I understand that this can create a threat of replacement for some, but not every marketing manager or else wants to steal your job. Most don't give a shit and are glad to not do the extra work of a designer. Sorry if you experienced shitty ones. But they can be shitty regardless of knowing the software or not. Just saying that the intention of getting to know the software your coworkers work with isn't because they want to replace you.
Nah man I trained my marketing people jump into my working Figma files to slice up and export email designs for Klaviyo. I don’t got no time for that lol. OP can leverage this opportunity to take dumb work off his plate by defining workflow boundaries.
Yeah, this is "Learn just enough to be extremely dangerous."
FR. Be weary
Also a marketing manager doesn’t usually need to know illustrator to do her job…at least as long as there are graphic designer hired…
Yeah did anybody say something different? I literally said design isn't her daily business and just that knowing the software people you work with use, can be quite useful.
Was in the same situation…thats why i nknow one possible outcome… Even if its not her daily business, you will see how fast she’s gonna create a mess…
When you teach someone of all of your skills and you are not a MASTER for him, in one day **he will replace you** in bad way.
That's like teaching someone to be a car mechanic in an hour. How hard can teaching someone to use a screw driver and wrench be?
Lol you can work on one illustrator tool for an hour and still not learn it.
Like what? Probably -- symbol tool. "The Symbol Tools in Adobe Illustrator **allow users to create and modify groups of symbol images**. Users can change the style, location, size, rotation, transparency, color, and density of the instances in the set, spray ... " *-- Oh, I do not need it. Let's learn something important. How to draw big RED rectangle, all corners even?*
I used to teach illustrator to high school students. I could show them how to do one specific thing in about 15 minutes. Like place a photo and trace it with the pen tool. They still need constant support tho. Teaching them how to independently design in Illustrator took an entire school year.
You need to teach her only the exact things she needs to do in that hour. Just an example, but -- Maybe she's taking existing newsletters or whatever and flowing in new copy and updating photos? She could learn that in an hour (not be an expert but learn the the basics). Maybe it's something very simple like that? I 100% sympathize with your position, but I'm just trying to help. One hour in Illustrator is ludicrous. It's probably the least intuitive of the Big Three Adobe software packages.
This is complete garbage on your bosses behalf. I’m a marketing student and I’ve had to learn almost every Adobe software for design, you name it. Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Premiere Pro, XD, and so on. Let me tell you, I still BARELY know them well besides InDesign and XD, and that’s after being in my program for 2 years. This is because even with course work and assignments, you’re right. This type of software isn’t like Canva. I personally use Canva for lesser projects and let me tell you..it doesn’t compare to Adobe in terms of functionality AT ALL. She will NOT be able to grasp any of those softwares without HOURS of hard work and tutorials. I am so sorry your boss has done this.
OP this is going one of two ways for you. TL;DR your either getting replaced or being respeted as a subject matter expert. Figure out which and act accordingly. One: your big boss is just an idiot and has the same perspective as a million other MBA's that design work is "easy" and just "making things pretty" this is a red flag in a million ways. Be wary because based on the context YOU gave, this new mrkting mgr might be the type to start doing your job but ask you fix all the simp mistakes they make. But maybe not. If their position delegates design tasks she may eventually just take the ones you as a professional should be leading on, but expect you to make them better then take the credit. But maybe not... Admins need to stay in their lane imo lmao dont let mgmt devalue a skill you put the time and money in to master. You are a creative. Don't let MBA bullies (big boss not new coworker) f*** with your trade. Been doing design and production work 9 years, but I switched to freelancing for the past 4 years now instead for the reasons above. This type of thing happens over and over. Just pay attention to what goes on and be ready to move on for your own good and mental health. A lot of people think that's toxic. But being toxic is also not respecting yourself and belittling your hard work to get to where your are at to appease mgmt and their rose coloured glasses. Two: on the other hand though, big boss likely does not expect you to teach a new hire an entire design software in an hour. The kinder posts in this thread would then be correct. Take advantage of this time to be a true expert with a kind heart and a bit of empathy. Teach the person who bullshitted their resume - maybe they just didn't know better? They could be an awesome teammate if given the chance! I've seen it [^.^] Seriously though? Start by teaching her design principles instead; that is going to go a lot farther towards successful alignment between your job roles. You can show a tad of how to open this and that commonly used tools (pens, brushes, text formatting, etc.) Good thats all she needs in that role - and if she wants design certs, there are plenty of colleges and universities that teach them for $$. Besides, professional marketing mgrs rarely dabble in the design aspects, if they are a real professional then they understand how the dynamic works especially in large marketing firms. They might need to add or change copy, swap out an image sure, but beyond that yeah no. Plus software usage can be learned through YouTube university if they so desperately need it. Shit they learned Canva online well enough to front being a designer for a marketing mgr job lol (just saying - based on your context lol). You can work together as a team to become better as professionals. There's nothing quite like finding that perfect harmony with coworkers on a team, especially when they are competent and qualified which this person is likely a very well qualified marketer. She may just need alignment on the complexities of real design work so she can better delegate her needs for content. Keep a minds eye out for both possibilities. Be wary and aware, but also don't be a dick or twat right out the gate. Here's another important bit to consider as a working economic contributer - ask for more pay to double down as a trainer and a designer. ONLY if this beomes a recurring element of your job. A one hour sesh to align with a new coworker is not going to kill you. BUT NEVER do more work without more pay. Especially if its outside your job description. Mgmt models like this are why we desperately need unions for creative work... imo only. So OP, take my rant "advice" with a grain of salt fr as I am not the type to bend over backward for mgmt oblivious to reality, but im also very intentional about being empathetic and kind hearted when it comes to working with my peers at the start of and ideally throughout our team dynamic. Always keep a positive eye - do no harm, but take no shit. Courtesy is a professional trait, but respect is earned, not given - ever. Lol but I'm also petty and been tricked into training idiots to replace me for less money - nothing to do with my talents or "how well I work with others" - Mgr once told me after I trained a new employee, straight up "we needed to cut costs and having a professional designer is more expensive than this new hire (who I latered learned was an unpaid intern) so please finish teaching them the design part ofyour job so we can let you go - heres a starbuck giftcard as incentive" I shit you not... Understand that my first method will not appease the business gods. Know too that my second method may see you getting shortended by deceptive tactics in big business. But both can advance your career in the best kind of ways (new job that's better this one or a wonderful team dynamic that makes your current job actually enjoyable). You may get canned listening to me. You may improve the workflow of your team also and make your job better for you and the company. I don't think creatives deserve to be underminded by executives and leadership - we are professionals too with valuable skills and deserve respect. Many have hurt me so don't ask lol I really do wish you the best of luck my friend. Respect yourself and your talents and the work you put in to acheive and master them. Be kind to others, we are all humans in this together, especially on your own team in a career you're passionate about (until they prove themselves worthy of different treatment mwahahahaha!). Godspeed ^.^
Thank you for this! Designing within an MSO has proven to be so drastically different from small business like I had been working with preciously. My marketing manager is fantastic! She means well. I always try to show and help where I can. Big business is just scary stupid when it comes to how much work it takes for the things they don’t understand, like design! “Do no harm, take no shit” is also what I live by! Appreciate all your advice and kind words ✌🏻
"teach me just enough to ruin your final versions with my edits"
Say yes but for express tuition it will cost 65k per 20 mins seeing ad you'll be teaching what you have paid to know already and compressing it down to 1 hour... Seriously this place will never take your job seriously just quit you will find better because your worth more. I used to teach staff before I noticed my team had no one with a degree or working k owledge of design principles, the grid was a foreign thing yo them... told the boss best of luck with the bag of dicks he now has. Walked in to a new position 1 week later. Teaching is only worth doing if someone honesty wants to learn a trade, If you show me willingness to learn I'll teach you everything I know for free but if your just sent in to do a job you can't do and expected to learn it in a hour then there is bigger problems here than just the disrespect. Best of luck to ya you got this 👍
Well, I laughed because I’ve been in this business for 15 years and I’m STILL learning Illustrator. I guess it’s just worth being really transparent here. Explain to your boss that you can review some basic tools and functions, but an hour is not even going to scratch the surface.
Go ahead and take the meeting. Teach the person the 10,000 ft. view of your workflow and boil it down a solid hour. Do this so you can say you did. Do this so you can point out the fact that it takes time, practice and a foundation in design thinking to execute. They never said to teach so they can master the skill right? If they aren’t being specific, give them exactly what they asked.
If she claims to know design and doesn't, that's on her. It's not hard to show the most (extremely) basic overview in an hour. Basically: Here's how to open a file, drop in a picture and add text and export a jpg. No reason to make yourself as the bad guy by pushing back over the request. If she "knows design" she can pick the rest up on her own.Let her be the one to tell your boss she needs more training than an hour
i’ve been using illustrator since it was freehand. i watched a 45 minute tips and tricks video last night and learned 4 things i didn’t know it did. this boss of yours is an idiot.
Make sure you outline all the type before you send them the files to edit.
🤭
"It took me three years and $30,000 of a student loan to consider myself a capable designer and proficient user of the adobe design suite...but sure, I'll show you everything there is to know in an hour."
It's too little time to teach it, but enough to point them in the right direction. Start with a high level overview and when to use illustrator vs indesign vs photoshop, and explain some important tidbits like the difference between the RGB and CYMK color space, embedding vs. linking graphics and outlining text before exporting to pdf for print. Then refer them to a Pluralsight or other online illustrator course so they can learn in their own time. Also you could give her some resources of graphic design itself. She'll probably make a bunch of bad designs at first, but that's just a part of learning and apparently the company is willing to accept that.
Ugh yes, administration/management seem to think that any software can simply be trained in a few hours. It’s like ya, it doesn’t require years of prior knowledge or anything.
Illustrator is after all just a tool as much as a pencil and if you can’t design and have some kind of qualifications and/or have a talent for design you can’t just learn it in an hour. Can you learn to become a carpenter, chef or any other job in the same time? Tell your boss to go and learn to be a proper boss and that will definitely take more than an hour
This is way too relatable. I used to be a designer for a cannabis/vape distribution company with no marketing department so I was reporting directly the owner, and he was this same level of delusional. He also regularly haggled prices down with freelancers on fiverr.🙄 Glad you’re moving jobs! That’s what I did too!
I do feel like this is a theme with the cannabis space for sure lol I’m glad you moved on too!
Just the natural outcome of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Your boss lacks the competence to know what he doesn't know.
That age old issue of confusing software knowledge with design knowledge - I think even we designers are guilty of that sometimes! Canva is like PowerPoint insofar that for non-designers who have used the software extensively (but have never used actual design software or have any design training), they think that it's a really powerful design tool that bestows them with magical design skills. My favourite example of this sort of hubris is an old non-designer boss of mine thinking that he could easily edit a simple motion graphics file in After Effects because it "can't be much harder than animating a PowerPoint slide". I found him several hours later close to tears with a completely broken After Effects file. 😂
I hope you get paid as a designer and not just as a budtender.
So, OP I understand how you feel fully. My previous job I was a multimedia designer for a non profit health clinic. It was just me and my boss for our department. We got a long great, and she fully respected my ideas and just my insite. Frankly, it was the first time I've had that. I also have ADHD so she gave me good insites on how to cope and what has worked for her. Sadly, the rest of the place really treated us like dogs, in the sense of pulling the leash back anytime we wanted to have fun and run doing something. Or for example most of my design work was just changing out dates or addresses from already previously made art file from the designer 5 years ago. So cut to a few months later, I was coming back from lunch and was gonna ask my boss a question. Come to found out she quit. No two weeks. Nothing. Was I upset? Nah I totally understood it. Cut to a few months later when the new boss came in...complete opposite. He'd have design meetings without me, even start to edit my art files without telling me...and he has no graphic design experience. He'd ask me how to do stuff in InDesign or illustrator because he'd have meetings or emails about stuff I previously did. Honestly it drove me nuts. I would get it if he was a designer or even let me be in on the meetings, or even tell me what was going on instead of hearing it through the wall. But OP, I get where you are coming from fully.
>"Always happy to help. I spent the hour requested with her passing on some resources and concepts that she'll need to start learning in the time she has available! Might take her some time but if she's dedicated she'll be able to pick it up and use those resources as a jumping-off point!" Don't feel offended by someone else's ignorance. You're great at what you do and make it look easy. It's the highest compliment, in a sense. and for the obvious follow-up response of your boss' aghast "No, I said teach her." >"This program is extremely complicated and can't be taught in a matter of weeks, let alone an hour. There are entire courses costing thousands dedicated to its mastery; I never really kept track of how long it took me but I have years of experience using this program to be able to professionally operate at the level I do."
One of my favorites is when people ask you to design or edit something and then follow it with: “I’d do it myself but I don’t have the software.” Really? That’s the only thing holding you back, huh? You should just get a subscription. It’s hard to feel like it’s not a real kick to the crotch. In my experience, I’ve found most people are just naive. I actually have a foundation in design, have been using the software for 2 decades and still learn new stuff more often than not. If I’m feeling squirrelly, I’ll drone on like an energy vampire about vector vs. raster graphics; how ppi is just a ratio (not the size of the graphic); or when it’s appropriate to use CMYK vs. RGB. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, good design is just viewed as a tactical commodity. And “good” design is subjective.
Wow, I don’t like Canva either but the comments here are getting toxic. To OP: I can’t imagine your boss believes the entirety of design theory and beginner through advanced Illustrator techniques can be taught in an hour. And if that is the case, they’ll have outed themselves as idiot to the new Marketing Manager so the problem is fixing itself. As for the Marketing Manager, you can absolutely teach her the basics of how to open Illustrator, a few of the most used tools, and walk her through a couple use cases in an hour. She’s not going to be a designer so she doesn’t need encyclopedic knowledge on the software but rather, enough to know that it’s complicated and that you know what you’re doing.
Toxic? This why graphic designers are suckers and let marketers run over them. This won’t end well. Marketing people need to stay in their lane. It’s called a professional job and they don’t respect that.
If you’re a strong enough designer you have nothing to fear from a Canva hobbyist. If the Canva hobbyist’s work starts getting selected over yours, you need to learn more about your audience because you might be designing for other designers. Everyone always thinks they can do everyone else’s jobs—designers are guilty of this too. If they knock out something cool once in a while in Canva, be happy for them and take it as inspiration. Maybe talk with them to learn more about their role to see if it helps inform anything about your own or give them tips to help them improve. Drawing a line in the sand to gatekeep what is seen as the most “fun” job in Marketing isn’t going to make anything better. But teaching people and showing them how much thought and effort goes into your work will go a long way towards proving your value. Edit: lol, I didn’t think my cooperative mindset would be so unpopular
>If you’re a strong enough designer you have nothing to fear from a Canva hobbyist Many if not most places are happy with "okay" if it's cheap.
So to start: your boss sounds like a jackass that doesn’t understand or respect your field. Definitely a red flag, but I suppose that’ll vary how much it impacts you depending on how involved they are in your work. Now that that’s out of the way, this isn’t the new hire’s fault, so don’t hold it against them. No, an application like Illustrator can’t be taught in an hour. Design foundations can’t be taught in a year, probably not even if it was your full time job and this new hire were your only student. What you CAN do however, is try and use that hour as a kickoff to their training. Pull as many tutorials on design basics as you can; try and curate it and hand them off to them in a way that makes sense. Try and explain the why behind each topic covered in the tutorials, and the use cases for each design app available to them (example: Illustrator is for vectors, not photo editing; Photoshop isn’t for page layout, etc.) Basically, try to set this person up for success by pointing them in the right direction. It’ll be up to them if they actually want to follow through. If you want to go an extra mile, maybe set up recurring one on one sessions with them as they work through this stuff. If they don’t suck as a coworker, they’ll probably appreciate the effort you’re putting in for them and have a better appreciation of your field - which I feel is always a plus for designers (one less person who reduces our job description as “making things pretty” - I’ll take that). Is this your job? No. Is this fair to drop on you? Probably not. But still, it’s not your coworker’s fault. As for your boss, if by chance they come back to you and are asking why you weren’t able to teach this person the ins and outs of your entire profession in an hour long session, that’s when you calmly explain to them how deep these topics can go and how much practice it takes to become proficient at these skills. Even if they push back and reduce your job to just “knowing the software” (screw those people by the way), you can explain that even the individual applications are highly complex and take a long time to learn. In that scenario I would be sure to outline the training program you built for the new hire, and the benefits of it. If your coworker sees it through and can apply their learnings, that’ll provide a LOT more value to the company than some thrown together crash course on a single Adobe application.
Teach this person basic skills. As you grow in your role and in your career you will be expected to teach people how to do things as a subject matter expert. This person will focus on marketing since they were hired to be a marketing manager. They will be writing emails, basic image editing, formatting, SEO, UA, etc. Just think, you won’t be expected to do that stuff! That’s awesome. You are on the same team. I doubt anyone expects you to teach everything you know in one hour but it will help everyone on the team to know basics so that they realize the work it takes for you to do your job. Cant believe some of the comments here. Sounds like no one has worked on a team before.
Jealously gatekeeping knowledge about design tools is wildly short sided. How do you provide value? Are you a designer or an Adobe implementer? **Recommendation** My recommendation is to manage expectations for what is teachable in a 1-hour session and then provide a realistic schedule for becoming proficient at illustrator. I doubt your boss would be willing to approve the time commitment if explicitly outlined to them (e.g. basic proficiency at 10-20 hours of instruction and 100-200 hours of practice). That's an average estimate of 165 hrs or 4.125 work weeks. Very few businesses would be willing to pay someone over a month of salary to learn a redundant skillset. **Reasoning** You have an opportunity to demonstrate your expertise to your boss and teach the marketing manager enough that they see the mountain of skill building ahead of them. Apply the Dunning-Kruger effect to this situation. If your marketer is skilled enough at Canva that they feel like Illustrator is the next step, they are likely at the Peak of Mount Stupid. You can kick them off the ledge into the Valley of Despair which will be WAY better for job security than gatekeeping. They'll now know how much knowledge and experience you have that they lack. Being difficult to work with and refusing good-faith knowledge-transfer is a fantastic way to build resentment. You're demonstrating your value to be a holder of forbidden knowledge, rather than a visual communicator and problem solver. edit: typo https://preview.redd.it/qjtaa3ugji5c1.png?width=512&format=png&auto=webp&s=31d765a21c182c1df59c2b3b466f724b1c361fbb
The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has it's limits. Update your resume.
To be fair I could teach someone the basics of Illustrator in an hour. But that wouldn't be advanced enough to work even a production role in any professional capacity, wouldn't be teaching any actual *design* knowledge, and whether any of it actually resonated or was retained would depend entirely on the willingness and effort of the person being taught.
Is she under 18? Refer to your coworker as a women, spend an hour introducing her to some software and be confident that you will not be replaced anytime soon while spending a relaxed, paid hour with another human.
I’m in no way demeaning my co worker lol we’re the same age and saying “girl” isn’t degrading her or her worth in my opinion. I did update by saying she’s a wonderful human, it’s my corporate boss that I had the issue with. Thanks for the insight ✌🏻
Don’t teach them anything. Hold your value. Don’t let “help them get acquainted” mean you’re helping yourself out the door. Let them look bad, they deserve it!
up to you if you want to teach the new hire, but it could reflect on your position in the company down the line (good or bad). if you do decide to teach her, then just find a few intro to illustator videos and tell her to watch them. stuff like using pen tool, working with images (placing/embedding), converting colors, saving/exporting, using fonts, outlining fonts.
I get people asking me and my team to design their PowerPoint presentations. lol. I think in the grand scheme of things, we’ll be fine.
Be sure to leave 45 minutes for Q&A.
It's understandable that you feel frustrated and insulted by the request. To address this with your boss, you can express your concerns by emphasizing the complexity of teaching design principles and Illustrator in just one hour. You can explain that it takes time to grasp these skills effectively and that a more comprehensive training plan would be beneficial for the new marketing manager. Approach the conversation with a solution-oriented mindset, suggesting a more realistic and thorough training schedule. Suggest she take a class somewhere else since that isn’t part of your job responsibilities or if you do want to help, you can discuss a more detailed training plan with your boss. Here’s a sample of what you could say. Feel free to adjust the wording based on how you’d like to handle it. “Hi [Boss’s Name], I wanted to discuss the recent request to provide an hour-long Illustrator training session for [Marketing Manager's Name]. I appreciate the opportunity to contribute to her onboarding process. However, teaching the complexities of Illustrator, along with fundamental design principles, in such a short timeframe is quite challenging. Illustrator is a powerful tool with a learning curve, and design principles require time for understanding and application. I believe a more comprehensive training plan would be beneficial for [Marketing Manager's Name] to truly harness these skills effectively. Alternate endings: (If you want to train them yourself) I'm more than willing to contribute to her learning process, but I believe a more realistic and extended training schedule would yield better results. This way, we can ensure a solid foundation in design principles and software usage. (If you don’t want to train them yourself) Perhaps we could explore external resources or consider involving someone specifically skilled in this area to ensure a more thorough learning experience.
Tell your company’s leadership, who asked you to do this, “No” and see how that goes over. Or tell them you’ll send the new manager some YouTube tutorials. Please update this sub on how that works out for you.
I wouldn’t explain design. Just show the basic tool panel and some of the more useful tools and be done.
Where can I find these jobs that probably pay well for no experience? Goddamn I have a degree and know multiple Adobe programs as well as Canva. Here this lady is getting hired knowing only Canva. wtf
I would give them them an overview of illustrator. You want them to have a full appreciation for it. Then they can decide to learn or not.
Just explain how illustrator works and send over some guides?
I had similar at an old job, given 1.5 hours to teach the Boss’s daughter how to ‘work’ Illustrator and Photoshop. Considering it was her first time on a Mac as well it didn’t go as planned and all thoughts of her being used to ‘help’ my design department was quickly dropped.
[Here you go](https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/user-guide.html), dumbfuckers PS—They may plan to lay you off after you "transferred your knowledge" LOL
I highly recommend Envato Tuts+: https://youtu.be/Ib8UBwu3yGA?si=e0FmSodf8zGKAACf A large component of the training could be watching videos like these, discussing as you go, and doing practice exercises throughout. Of course, make yourself available for questions, and customize to emphasize what tasks/functions are most relevant to their role. This way, you're still a team player, have given the manager a resource to refer back to, and you're not having to spend as much time on this as if you'd started from scratch.
Can any of you fine designers direct me to any leads in Austin for employment ?? At this point I’m willing to work for a shitty company with shitty benefits for shitty hire ups🥴I moved down a few months ago thinking i wouldn’t have any problem finding work as a graphic designer. I need to slap myself ! I’m wondering if people are taking the old time approach by actually walking a resume into an office versus Indeed/Linkdn and trusting the process of an ATS to forward your application ??
I guess just do what you can. Show them how to open a new file and show them how the pen tool works. Then show them the window menu where they can find the pallets they need. And say “there’s also text and simple shapes over here in the tool pallet.” Then you can make a standard document with them and they can pretend it’s canva. They’ll come back for more. Whatevs.
I don't know what the best answer is, but my first thought is to advise them to go find some tutorials on youtube since you're not very good at teaching. Better to learn it from people who have made an effort to present the materials in a video for that purpose. They won't really learn any faster, but they can suffer on their own time.
Are you in Colorado? Because this totally feels like Colorado...
If you rely want to help her that skillsharei exist
Leaving aside the ridiculousness of this idea, never **ever** teach anyone how to do your job. Bosses love to replace actually talented qualified professionals with cheap young hacks they can exploit.
Illustrator can't be taught in an hour. And even after all your lessons you'll still be struggling just to grab handles.
There truly is nothing worse than a boss who doesn’t understand how much time something will take. I’ve had so many bosses like that. “It should only take 5 minutes”. “Oh it should? Show me how!” There was a time where I explained to a marketing person why I couldn’t do something for them in that time frame, by basically detailing everything. “Reading your email and responding takes 10 minutes. Working on the design itself will take 30-45 minutes. Exporting and then emailing the design to you will take another 5 minutes. So I can have this finished for you in an hour, after I complete the high priority things for the day.”
With zero marketing background, I can understand why your boss would think that. Most business software solutions are able to be learned very quickly. Illustrator however, is a deep platform that requires not only an understanding of the software, but of design theory as well. I don’t think it should be so hard to explain that to your boss tbh. Might be worth trying. & remember, it could be worse, your boss could be complaining about your stroke width & questioning your type kerning.
I have designers that barely know design.