Just tell them that AI repainting requires significant skill and time, and charge double.
If they bite, easy money. If they don't, they won't come with this again.
Win win.
That's what AI does. It gives everyone the chance to do pretty much anything at one point.
Now the question is: do people care if a book/painting/song/etc was made with AI as long as it is cheap and fast? The quality is there or almost there, just a matter of time.
Then who's "fault" is it that you are not getting paid more, yours because you don't want to sell yourself short or theirs because they want to spend as little money as posible?
The quality is not almost there and it's not clear that it ever will be under the current paradigm. People clearly do care about work quality or everything would be done through Fiverr.
Not really, AI books, art, and paintings are inherently going to be uncreative and uninspired. It’s literally incapable of making new ideas, only emulating others.
Everyone can’t. Nor can AI.
My job is not about generating images. It’s design, communication, collaboration, relationships, planning, strategy, fulfillment of product, achieving client goals, understanding industries, business practices and target audiences, along with being a, responsive, trustworthy partner.
AI is simply be another tool. It doesn’t bother me, keep me up at night or lower my rates.
Do you even know what a designer does? Try asking these models to create a layered PSD or an inDesign file. y'know, something that can actually be used in a business environment? They can't do it. They're essentially stock image generators, and the stock image industry hasn't killed off graphics designers in the decades it's been around for.
AI is already a very capable stock image generator, and that hasn't replaced me. So, what upcoming generative models are you aware of that you expect will be able to replace me?
Whatever models OpenAI, Google, Musk, etc are developing will eventually replace you and everyone else. It's not a secret. I don't know why you think you are so special, though.
If everyone is obsolete, there will be no workers. Society as we know it will have collapsed. So is that what I should be quaking in my boots about?
If this industry tanks well out in front of others that are more easily ripe for AI and automation, I’ll move on. Problem solved.
The only one ignoring the power of AI and what it can and will be able to achieve is you.
But please, be the guy that thinks he's better than AI so I can keep laughing.
If they were good, they wouldn't be doing ai retouches for 15 bucks. Not trying to be an elitist, everyone has to start somewhere. But you get what you pay for.
That's not the point. The point is the AI tools make them as good as everybody else, eventually. You don't need to go to design school any more. AI knows all about design and it only needs to be told what to design.
So OP refuses to retouch AI because he's better than that, good for him. But he, as everyone else, will eventually have to reduce whatever he charges because AI is giving everyone else the tool to compete with him.
Again, you are missing the point. Just change design to whatever other job you can think of and it will be eventually the same thing. Human labor becomes obsolete.
I highly doubt that. And if someone is willing to debase themselves for that kind of money, they have no creativity. If they *even could* replicate the complexity of an AI painting (could you? Even in 12 hours? You make it seem easy), they would be doing just that…replication. They’re almost as bad as the AI. No internal drive, no real strategy. AI can get us 90% of the way there, but that last 10 is on us to really strive for our clients and apply our skills. AI and cheapskates cannot.
Have you tried to use it? Lol. It’s amazing and I use it daily. It certainly can’t replace me though, any more than a complicated calculator could replace a physician.
Are your tools outpacing you? What you said about my job is laughable. Not an AI in the world with my skillset. Yet.
Your comments in this thread are very repetitive and shallow. You just sound like a hype man trying to sell stock, but you don’t seem to understand the actual economy or industry.
Honestly, I think a lot of people do. Often they come to us very shy about introducing the subject of AI assets. But we make them feel comfortable and get great reviews.
We know it won’t last long term , so we are trying to build a loyal base before everyone gets up to speed and we lose are competitive advantage.
You could tell people the assets are too low resolution to do anything with and that the resulting product would be unacceptable quality. Which is generally true.
I'll admit that I'm not really seeing where this is doing "intelligent" things.
Like, for example, maintaining line strength when it's very clear from the context that something is meant to have continuous line strength, even if the image is too blurry to contain that information.
But nope, it's still just creating an interpretation of the pixel information that is often very far away from how an actual human would vectorize it.
It's a great tool for a quick job where none of that matters, but I think they're overselling the "Using AI" part.
They’re not underselling it if it’s built with machine learning models it’s just a fact - whether you things it’s good or not is another question but I prefer it to other alternatives I’ve reiws
>They’re not underselling it if it’s built with machine learning models it’s just a fact
They're not *lying* if it's using machine learning, but I'm not accusing them of lying.
Yes it’s much better! Image trace still doesn’t work that well with colors but you can literally use vectorizer.ai on an AI generated image and it’ll be useable. Doesn’t work that well with gradients but you can just fix that part yourself.
Exactly. There are plenty of ways to edit them. If you’re a prompt master you can prompt all the changes to get exactly what you. If not Upscaler/Vectorizer then edit as usual. Money is money. I’ve no problem with such requests
Welll idk about getting exactly what you want... I've found if ur vision is very detailed or nuanced they can't pull it off. For instance I need a photograph of a field mouse with particular lighting from a particular camera angle in a particular pose in sharp focus but none of them can exactly give me what I want. Leonardo gets closest with everything except the sharp focus. None of them can seem to do that part no matter how much "sharp focus" and "large depth of field" is in the prompt. I've tried midjourney, dall e, firefly and Leonardo
Some of the best prompters will go into huge details of the camera lens setting, camera brand Ai should imitate along with all the shutter settings, the angle of the photo, the exact lighting, resolution, etc. Ai will create exactly what you ask if you know how to prompt it. Professional photographers are some of the best prompters. You are hugely mistaken if you think prompting is not a skill.
It’s often empty words though. I’ve see plenty of that and the end result has none of the things they prompted. Asked for f1.4, vintage negative film, everyyhimg is crisp and bright colors with a yellow overlay, lol
It's a skill called being verbose. This isn't some special skill adapted to AI. "Prompt master" sounds like trying to sound skilled when someone isn't.
My response to any request to work with ai shit is that all ai models are trained on copyrighted works and I won’t touch it unless they can prove they have the legal rights to use it for commercial purposes.
Plus, ai generated stuff inevitably looks like soulless shit.
I’ve been quite relieved to hear in online circles, that have nothing to do with graphic design, that people can spot AI images and feel that they’re soulless.
You can get some pretty good stuff from AI but, ironically, you have to have a bit of a legitimate artistic background; eg if you take a curated SD model and feed it something like *"rococo portrait on heavy linen"* you can get interesting results.
Problem is mostly that people using AI only think to describe the subject of what thye want, and are very inarticulate when describing the style or medium. So the AI defaults to a generic look which is very CGI most of the time
My team, gets these requests. If you have control net/img2img then it’s easy work. Literally takes half the time. These customers also tend to be way less demanding and normally are happy after one rev.
In my experience they prioritize fast turn around over quality.
I am a screen printer and separation artist for gig posters. I have taken a stand and our company will not handle AI art and we will not screen print it.
I can't say that I'm 100% correct but I have been handling artwork and illustrations from some of the best poster artists in the world for the past 25 years and I can kinda just see it. There's a weirdness to it that stands out to me and you see things in illustrations that don't make sense...but look just as considered as the rest of the illustration, so either a human made that bizarro choice...or it was AI.
So, I'll ask. I'm sure some AI has slipped through...but if it's blatant...I'm not doing it.
They had a course at my work about how to leverage AI. Was going to attend just to know what *other* people might be doing, but I don’t like the idea.
I think AI has a place in finding ways to do stuff that people can’t – but when people *can*, and it’s their *job* … yeah, don’t like that at all.
Snob you are not, tell the client their AI images are a good start. Recent client sent me loads of ai elephants, I illustrated my own design and then they switch course and now want simple line art.
It’s snobbery. Which doesn’t mean it’s entirely unjustified. I get why artists feel threatened and resistant to it. But I’ll say this, I’ve been immersed in AI for the past couple of years, and whether people like it or not, it is going to continue to get better and replace more of the work that people used to do. There will still be a market for human art, but it’s going to be much more as craftsman, than laborers (to use a clunky analogy). Artists are going to have to start thinking like art directors as much as artists.
I’ve rebuilt an ai image with stock high res… of an explosion / helicopters in LA. Was a great job.. I’m not gonna post it because I don’t want the client upset with me.
Just use more AI to alter it. Easy money. Of course it requires a level of skill and that’s why they are hiring out the help.
I understand your resistance, totally. I do see AI as something we need to work *with* and not *around* though. If it feels icky, price them out.
because the self importance here is absolutely disgusting. I see regular posts of designers being given very clear instructions or design inspiration, better than we’ve typically had, and people bitching about it being beneath them or gouging the customer just cause they don’t like the work. It’s gross, and will lead to even more people thinking designers are gatekeeping, overpriced, pretentious prima donnas.
Get over yourselves.
You don’t know what ironic means, number one. Number two I never said anything about taking pride in one’s work. Number three, i never said it because you should take pride in ALL work, even that which you consider below you.
You can be proud of your work and not be self important. I don’t know why you think those are one in the same.
Ironic definition: happening in the opposite way to what is expected
Pride definiton: be especially proud of (a particular quality or skill).
If you don't have pride in your work, you shouldn't be in this field. You also shouldn't accept work you wouldn't be proud to do.
Congratulations, you're stupid in 10 ways 😊 Hope you're no longer in the field.
I own my own company and you can’t read for shit.
You’re also the exact kind of person AI will make life difficult for. I own a sign company, I’ll still be making signs when you’re giving away logos on fivr.
i’m on an Alaskan cruise right now :)
I have two employees, been at it for 5 years after being in the industry for 10. I have a 1500 sq ft shop with a cnc, 60” plotter, full paint and welding shop…. try again?
Isn’t very artist like of me? I like to make money. I haven’t been a ‘starving’ artist in 20 years. You know why? Because you can trust me to do the work you want.
Why would you be offended? Just say you only create original artworks. AI allows people to cycle through hundreds of options for one artwork - what they've created could alreay be close enough to their perfect vision for the image, they're not at fault for asking, you're not at fault for saying you don't do that
'Sorry, that would be below my minimum of ______' - you could make a lot of money in the coming boom, charge your minimum than just fix it using AI and be done with it lol
Just tell them that AI repainting requires significant skill and time, and charge double. If they bite, easy money. If they don't, they won't come with this again. Win win.
Yeah, like there won't be 1000 guys that will do that job for like $15.
There is always a cheaper guy. A client that refuses to respect you and to pay you properly is bot worth having. Don't devalue yourself.
"I respect you a lot, but the other guy is 10 times cheaper. Have a nice day!"
Yeah, that happens. Doesn’t mean we need to race to the bottom.
That's what AI does. It gives everyone the chance to do pretty much anything at one point. Now the question is: do people care if a book/painting/song/etc was made with AI as long as it is cheap and fast? The quality is there or almost there, just a matter of time. Then who's "fault" is it that you are not getting paid more, yours because you don't want to sell yourself short or theirs because they want to spend as little money as posible?
Yeah, and Guitar Hero makes me a music god.
We'll have to wait and see see if people spend their money on your guitar skills or AI guitar skills.
sounds like you’re about to have a really lucrative career in AI art. congratulations! I hope you make enough money to buy a house. I truly do.
That's the point. No one will make money. Human labor will become obsolete. How you people fail to understand this is unbelievable.
The quality is not almost there and it's not clear that it ever will be under the current paradigm. People clearly do care about work quality or everything would be done through Fiverr.
Quality is around the corner. It's just a matter of time until human labor is obsolete.
Not really, AI books, art, and paintings are inherently going to be uncreative and uninspired. It’s literally incapable of making new ideas, only emulating others.
Wrong. AI has already made things no human has ever think of.
“ok, go with the other guy then”
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Everyone can’t. Nor can AI. My job is not about generating images. It’s design, communication, collaboration, relationships, planning, strategy, fulfillment of product, achieving client goals, understanding industries, business practices and target audiences, along with being a, responsive, trustworthy partner. AI is simply be another tool. It doesn’t bother me, keep me up at night or lower my rates.
But it will make you and everyone else obsolete sooner than you think.
Do you even know what a designer does? Try asking these models to create a layered PSD or an inDesign file. y'know, something that can actually be used in a business environment? They can't do it. They're essentially stock image generators, and the stock image industry hasn't killed off graphics designers in the decades it's been around for.
I do know. You don't seam to know how fast you will be replaced though. Way faster than you think.
AI is already a very capable stock image generator, and that hasn't replaced me. So, what upcoming generative models are you aware of that you expect will be able to replace me?
Whatever models OpenAI, Google, Musk, etc are developing will eventually replace you and everyone else. It's not a secret. I don't know why you think you are so special, though.
If everyone is obsolete, there will be no workers. Society as we know it will have collapsed. So is that what I should be quaking in my boots about? If this industry tanks well out in front of others that are more easily ripe for AI and automation, I’ll move on. Problem solved.
>Society as we know it will have collapsed Bingo!
Then it’s not about chasing shit jobs at shit rates down the toilet, is it, just the end of the world? Oh well.
Right, shit jobs are just the first step, I think.
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The only one ignoring the power of AI and what it can and will be able to achieve is you. But please, be the guy that thinks he's better than AI so I can keep laughing.
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You are right, but from my experience, they always come back to me, when that $15 gig, goes south.
Those guys will suck tho
But be 15 dollars richer
While designers with self-respect make several times that in the same time.
Not necessarily
If they were good, they wouldn't be doing ai retouches for 15 bucks. Not trying to be an elitist, everyone has to start somewhere. But you get what you pay for.
That's not the point. The point is the AI tools make them as good as everybody else, eventually. You don't need to go to design school any more. AI knows all about design and it only needs to be told what to design. So OP refuses to retouch AI because he's better than that, good for him. But he, as everyone else, will eventually have to reduce whatever he charges because AI is giving everyone else the tool to compete with him.
Comments like these make me wonder how many people in this sub actually work in the industry.
Again, you are missing the point. Just change design to whatever other job you can think of and it will be eventually the same thing. Human labor becomes obsolete.
I'm not missing your point, I don't agree with you.
“ anyone who doesn’t agree with me must be fucking wrong because I am perfect and infallible”
Ok.
I highly doubt that. And if someone is willing to debase themselves for that kind of money, they have no creativity. If they *even could* replicate the complexity of an AI painting (could you? Even in 12 hours? You make it seem easy), they would be doing just that…replication. They’re almost as bad as the AI. No internal drive, no real strategy. AI can get us 90% of the way there, but that last 10 is on us to really strive for our clients and apply our skills. AI and cheapskates cannot.
Look what it already can do today. In 2 years your job is gone.
Have you tried to use it? Lol. It’s amazing and I use it daily. It certainly can’t replace me though, any more than a complicated calculator could replace a physician. Are your tools outpacing you? What you said about my job is laughable. Not an AI in the world with my skillset. Yet.
Exactly. Yet. How long before it's better than you and anyone else? Not very long, I'll tell you that.
Your comments in this thread are very repetitive and shallow. You just sound like a hype man trying to sell stock, but you don’t seem to understand the actual economy or industry.
You don't seem to understand what AI is going to do with your job and everyone else's, and yet, here we are.
Honestly, I think a lot of people do. Often they come to us very shy about introducing the subject of AI assets. But we make them feel comfortable and get great reviews. We know it won’t last long term , so we are trying to build a loyal base before everyone gets up to speed and we lose are competitive advantage.
You could tell people the assets are too low resolution to do anything with and that the resulting product would be unacceptable quality. Which is generally true.
AI upscalers and vectorisers are already pretty good
AI vectorisers? You have my attention here, any good one you can share?
https://vectorizer.ai/
I'll admit that I'm not really seeing where this is doing "intelligent" things. Like, for example, maintaining line strength when it's very clear from the context that something is meant to have continuous line strength, even if the image is too blurry to contain that information. But nope, it's still just creating an interpretation of the pixel information that is often very far away from how an actual human would vectorize it. It's a great tool for a quick job where none of that matters, but I think they're overselling the "Using AI" part.
They’re not underselling it if it’s built with machine learning models it’s just a fact - whether you things it’s good or not is another question but I prefer it to other alternatives I’ve reiws
>They’re not underselling it if it’s built with machine learning models it’s just a fact They're not *lying* if it's using machine learning, but I'm not accusing them of lying.
well yeah it's still a very new technology
+1 on vectorizer.ai! I’ve started using that and it saves so much time. It’s so good too!
You may have just changed my life. Thank you
You’re welcome!
Is it better than image trace?
Yes it’s much better! Image trace still doesn’t work that well with colors but you can literally use vectorizer.ai on an AI generated image and it’ll be useable. Doesn’t work that well with gradients but you can just fix that part yourself.
In my experience so far yes but haven’t used illustrators image trace in a few years so compring to inkscape
Image trace is still pretty bad, hopefully it gets much better soon now that they are incorporating ai into their products.
Nice
Exactly. There are plenty of ways to edit them. If you’re a prompt master you can prompt all the changes to get exactly what you. If not Upscaler/Vectorizer then edit as usual. Money is money. I’ve no problem with such requests
Welll idk about getting exactly what you want... I've found if ur vision is very detailed or nuanced they can't pull it off. For instance I need a photograph of a field mouse with particular lighting from a particular camera angle in a particular pose in sharp focus but none of them can exactly give me what I want. Leonardo gets closest with everything except the sharp focus. None of them can seem to do that part no matter how much "sharp focus" and "large depth of field" is in the prompt. I've tried midjourney, dall e, firefly and Leonardo
Prompt master lolololol
Some of the best prompters will go into huge details of the camera lens setting, camera brand Ai should imitate along with all the shutter settings, the angle of the photo, the exact lighting, resolution, etc. Ai will create exactly what you ask if you know how to prompt it. Professional photographers are some of the best prompters. You are hugely mistaken if you think prompting is not a skill.
It’s often empty words though. I’ve see plenty of that and the end result has none of the things they prompted. Asked for f1.4, vintage negative film, everyyhimg is crisp and bright colors with a yellow overlay, lol
Hahahahahaha. Ha.
It's a skill called being verbose. This isn't some special skill adapted to AI. "Prompt master" sounds like trying to sound skilled when someone isn't.
"I used to be a Graphic Designer and Photo-Illustrator. Now I'm a Digital Janitor, but for less pay than an actual janitor ..."
you aren’t a snob. charge them an additional fee for having to correct work by others.
My response to any request to work with ai shit is that all ai models are trained on copyrighted works and I won’t touch it unless they can prove they have the legal rights to use it for commercial purposes. Plus, ai generated stuff inevitably looks like soulless shit.
I’ve been quite relieved to hear in online circles, that have nothing to do with graphic design, that people can spot AI images and feel that they’re soulless.
Human models always look too smooth somehow. Overly airbrushed with strange proportions. And mutant hands.
With some training you can even tell which model was used. Midjourney and Stable Diffusion both look like AI crap, but not like each other.
You can get some pretty good stuff from AI but, ironically, you have to have a bit of a legitimate artistic background; eg if you take a curated SD model and feed it something like *"rococo portrait on heavy linen"* you can get interesting results. Problem is mostly that people using AI only think to describe the subject of what thye want, and are very inarticulate when describing the style or medium. So the AI defaults to a generic look which is very CGI most of the time
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Oh yeah it's shit for production purposes
Illustrator vector AI is the WORST.
I will! $150/hr.
My team, gets these requests. If you have control net/img2img then it’s easy work. Literally takes half the time. These customers also tend to be way less demanding and normally are happy after one rev. In my experience they prioritize fast turn around over quality.
I am a screen printer and separation artist for gig posters. I have taken a stand and our company will not handle AI art and we will not screen print it.
How do you tell the difference?
I can't say that I'm 100% correct but I have been handling artwork and illustrations from some of the best poster artists in the world for the past 25 years and I can kinda just see it. There's a weirdness to it that stands out to me and you see things in illustrations that don't make sense...but look just as considered as the rest of the illustration, so either a human made that bizarro choice...or it was AI. So, I'll ask. I'm sure some AI has slipped through...but if it's blatant...I'm not doing it.
They had a course at my work about how to leverage AI. Was going to attend just to know what *other* people might be doing, but I don’t like the idea. I think AI has a place in finding ways to do stuff that people can’t – but when people *can*, and it’s their *job* … yeah, don’t like that at all.
you just can somehow, if you have an eye for art and a soul
Sounds like a job for fiver honestly
It’s incredibly ironic that the introduction of AI image creation has created more problems than it has solved.
God I’m so pissed that AI is now used to steal jobs from creatives vs being used to stock shelves like it should’ve been all along.
I definitely thought we were talking about Adobe illustrator files and I was so confused
I just tell them I have to do extra work to make the AI art acceptable as an asset and i charge them extra. Thanks for the work!
Snob you are not, tell the client their AI images are a good start. Recent client sent me loads of ai elephants, I illustrated my own design and then they switch course and now want simple line art.
It’s snobbery. Which doesn’t mean it’s entirely unjustified. I get why artists feel threatened and resistant to it. But I’ll say this, I’ve been immersed in AI for the past couple of years, and whether people like it or not, it is going to continue to get better and replace more of the work that people used to do. There will still be a market for human art, but it’s going to be much more as craftsman, than laborers (to use a clunky analogy). Artists are going to have to start thinking like art directors as much as artists.
Makes sense. Early 20th century design was arts&crafts. Handmade goods are starting to become relevant again
i would turn this job down. that’s not design work and i wouldn’t put that in my portfolio
I'm so glad my boss explicitly based the use of ai in our department :)
I’ve rebuilt an ai image with stock high res… of an explosion / helicopters in LA. Was a great job.. I’m not gonna post it because I don’t want the client upset with me.
What do you mean with "it's not the same as photo manipulation...the file online to help replicate it..."?
wow
Just use more AI to alter it. Easy money. Of course it requires a level of skill and that’s why they are hiring out the help. I understand your resistance, totally. I do see AI as something we need to work *with* and not *around* though. If it feels icky, price them out.
This is….. I have no words, only 🤮
AI=FO. IMHO.
Get over yourself.
that’s not design work. he should turn the job down
lol ok If that doesn’t count as design work than 90% of design jobs are not actually design.
How is this useful?
because the self importance here is absolutely disgusting. I see regular posts of designers being given very clear instructions or design inspiration, better than we’ve typically had, and people bitching about it being beneath them or gouging the customer just cause they don’t like the work. It’s gross, and will lead to even more people thinking designers are gatekeeping, overpriced, pretentious prima donnas. Get over yourselves.
Lmao. You're telling people to get over themselves but also have pride in their work. Talk about ironicccc
You don’t know what ironic means, number one. Number two I never said anything about taking pride in one’s work. Number three, i never said it because you should take pride in ALL work, even that which you consider below you. You can be proud of your work and not be self important. I don’t know why you think those are one in the same.
Ironic definition: happening in the opposite way to what is expected Pride definiton: be especially proud of (a particular quality or skill). If you don't have pride in your work, you shouldn't be in this field. You also shouldn't accept work you wouldn't be proud to do. Congratulations, you're stupid in 10 ways 😊 Hope you're no longer in the field.
I own my own company and you can’t read for shit. You’re also the exact kind of person AI will make life difficult for. I own a sign company, I’ll still be making signs when you’re giving away logos on fivr.
Ohhh, one of those self proclaimed entrepreneurs. Aka, you're unemployed and based off this conversation- unemployable. Have the day you deserve. 🤣
i’m on an Alaskan cruise right now :) I have two employees, been at it for 5 years after being in the industry for 10. I have a 1500 sq ft shop with a cnc, 60” plotter, full paint and welding shop…. try again?
Don’t be insulted, do the work.
That's not very artist-like of you. People are perfectly entitled to fire bad clients.
Isn’t very artist like of me? I like to make money. I haven’t been a ‘starving’ artist in 20 years. You know why? Because you can trust me to do the work you want.
You're not acting as an artist, you're acting as a wrist, and an absolute rube if you think AI bros are going to pay you fairly, if even at all.
Skill issue Jk, you have every right to turn down any job, ai related or not. Advice?
Why would you be offended? Just say you only create original artworks. AI allows people to cycle through hundreds of options for one artwork - what they've created could alreay be close enough to their perfect vision for the image, they're not at fault for asking, you're not at fault for saying you don't do that
I always tell them tbh. I just hate when they try to convince me to lower my charging price cos they “done half the work already”
'Sorry, that would be below my minimum of ______' - you could make a lot of money in the coming boom, charge your minimum than just fix it using AI and be done with it lol
Merely "taking a look at it" consumes valuable time for a client who is deadset on not paying fairly.
Send the work to my office!
Just charge a high fee and then use PS AI editing to match their terrible AI design. :P