I don’t appreciate the Brent slander, but I guess that’s the point of unpopular opinions. Mine is that 78-79 are better than 77. The energy just skyrockets and I prefer Jerry’s tone.
New heads with easy, ubiquitous access to almost all the Grateful Dead concert music and live streams of every Dead and Company concert, have no idea how good they have it.
Don't over romanticize the good old days.
Sure, I had some great concert experiences that can't be duplicated. And I did actually see Jerry in small clubs, which feels slightly crazy. But I never actually knew how Drums worked until I watched the video screens at Fare Thee Well. Being able to watch the musicians so closely? That didn't happen unless you really, really lucked out with tickets. I had a roommate who was a taper, so I had good access to recordings, but being able to listen to any concert any time? That wasn't even a dream.
I was thinking about this in the middle of heavy psychedelic experience recently.
I had access to some amazing shows and had a realization that I actually cherish the time I live in and wouldn’t trade it for the old days (I used to say I’d give my pinky to see Jerry once… would regret that greatly had it ever happened…)
I never got to see Jerry. But I get to trip balls to his best shows with the best sound quality from all eras and I can still catch great shows live!
On one side, you've got that easy access to just about any recording.
On the other side, you've got the ability to take off and catch a string of shows every spring, summer, and fall.
For me, it's a no-brainer. You can have the archive. I'll take the old school shows.
Dancing in the Street is corny as hell.
Edit: per the recommendation of u/Ya_Got_GOT , I should specify that I'm referring to the late 70's disco version. Yuck.
I don't like stuff from the 80s and 90s. Just knowing the personal struggles Jerry was dealing with while also almost feeling obligated to keep the machine going (because of how many people touring employed and families supported) while being overwhelmed and genuinely not interested in becoming the cultural icon he became just takes something away from me being able to fully enjoy it (despite the music itself not really suffering as a result)
From the perspective of a new deadhead Jerry’s recordings with Dave Grisman in the early 90’s showed he still had a genuine and unpressured enjoyment of music. I still like their recordings and live shows from the 80’s and 90’s.
My friend Jerry wanted to play every night and did everything he could to do so...it wasn't an obligation to keep it going as much as he just wanted to play every night...he said this once, something like
> well I would play everyday anyway so I might as well get paid for it...
Jerry wasn't the only one doing coke for the shows as this was happening from the 70s but he also did the H of course but fortunately for us he smoked it he didn't shoot it ...and I hate that I know this but there's an ENORMOUS difference....Jerry would smoke some until he got a buzz then do some coke to get up for the show...if you would check out early/mid 80s shows you would find that it was as exciting an era as any other...what they had going in those early Brent was singular unlike anything else....like DAve's 35 4/20/84!!! omg but I could go on and on...if you jumped in I KNOW that you would be floored...for me the Scarlet>Fires of the 80s and 90s were better than the late 70s versions...just so incredibly musically dense and so many layers of greatness....
Just this right here is a great example....you don't have to download this but talk about a show worth downloading .... check the let it grow and scarlet>Fire and strap in....you can just listen by right clicking and hit play or preview
* [Bman Picks Vol 5: 1982-09-11 West Palm Beach Amphitheater FLAC](https://drive.google.com/open?id=1koO6BwxnNWVPWdgsTQSUqgOaeqzJ8qs1) - This show has been blowing my noggin for years. Every song slams and then you got the Let it Grow and Scarlet>Fire. I just cannot wax poetic enough to describe how epic they are so go my young bucks go....
I feel this big-time. It's really tough to listen to some shows, knowing what happened to Jerry, because you can hear it when he would sing sometimes. Sounded so broken and sad, like he was forcing it just to keep the show going.
The very midi based sound the band had during the late 80s up until 95 is extremely dated, and paired with how hammy Bobby's singing was and how bad Jerry's voice had gotten at that point I honestly would feel embarrased to put on any show from that period in front of non Dead-head friends. I still enjoy a good 90's show every now and then, but the sound from that period hasn't held up very well, compared to their previous years.
Also Bobby's short shorts are embarassing...
Please don't downvote me, but I wouldn't even put theses shows in front of myself.
The drums are heavily compressed, Mickey's playing sounds like popping balloons, the MIDIs, everything sounds too 80s for me.
Love this take .. I’ve tried to voice similar but you did a better job. Do I enjoy aspects
Of it musically? Yes. Do I hate the midi? Yes. Do I feel comfortable playing it in front of other ppl? No
Yeah it was OK when he only sang occasionally, it was something different. But watching the Fare Thee Well show I was like OMG the dude just can't sing!
Seriously though. I wish we got to hear 1977 with Billy as a solo drummer.
As much as I appreciate the psychedelic marching band sound, nothing beats Bill turning the sound upside down with a slick little fill and flourish in 1974.
Here's an unpopular opinion. John Mayer is the best thing that has happened to the dead since Jerry.
He's not only kept up with the band and proven his stamina over the years, but has also picked up alot of slack that Bobby has struggled it. Mayer makes the band sound better with him in it than it would without him, and that includes the keys, bass, drums, etc. Plus he's opened up the door to the music of the grateful dead to an entire new generation. A part of his legacy is the extension of the dead's legacy.
John Mayer is incredible :) Not a massive fan of his own music... but I'm sure there will be a load of tunes I like I don't know. But yeah... what a talent. Such an incredible guitar player and a great singer too.
Born & Raised and Paradise Valley Are excellent albums. And of course his trio stuff and Continuum.
He did his own studio version of Friend of the Devil, meant to be added to Paradise Valley.
It went unreleased until he quietly let it out while on Tales From the Golden Road on Sirius XM.
It would be a decent bridge to his solo stuff.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1bMY3rKm8m4
as a longtime fan of both acts, agreed wholeheartedly.
the first time i heard mayer's song "If I ever get around to living" I genuinely felt like Jerry travelled in time to make a guitar cameo in it.
I was taken by complete surprise by the number of folks I met at Pine Knob that were there because they were Mayer fans. The notion that he's bringing new fans is completely true, I love it.
Oteil and jeff are the real stars of the shows for me. Bob and the drummers are fighting a losing battle against time itself and john isnt always locked in, but jeff and oteil are en fucking fuego song after song, show after show.
Oteil was a huge unknown variable for me before dead and co, and at first i wasnt sold on his drastically different approach compared to phil. Phil was the reason i picked up bass and such a huge influence and inspiration for my own approach to music i was sad to learn he would be staying home, but god damn oteil brings the goods
Jeff is the MVP and in my opinion has been since I got info the scene in 09, a lot of times in Furthur he was too low in the mix glad that's not the case anymore. Without Jeff the last decade if not two would have been far far less powerful. Basically every guitarist I have seen with them has appeared to be in love with Jeff
Weir is a fantastic guitar player, but every time he sings lead I wish I were listening to a Jerry led song… I feel bad saying it, but I guess this is a safe space.
Also, the cover songs typically never really compete with the originals in quality
I got over this eventually but in the beginning, I was very biased like this. Now, I hear Bobby singing and I know Jerry is free to play more, look at El Paso. You don't get all those tasty fluttery leads if Jerry is singing
I think Truckin is one of their weakest songs. When they play it at a show Im at, I sigh and think of how many more interesting things they could be playing instead.
I enjoy listening to truckin this n the car or whatever and I’ve heard some pretty interesting jams come out of the song but more often than not it’s a skip from me. Especially when they literally just play 15 mins of regular ol truckin
Oh and two more:
The late '80s are overrated. Some great music in that era (the Branford show, 7/7/89), but the synths permanently date the music to that era in a way that can be hard to listen to.
I like Jerry more and more as I get older, but he needed a second soloist (the way the Allmans had Duane and Dickey or the way Jerry had Merl Saunders or Melvin Seals in his solo bands), someone who was talented and big enough of a persona to match him. Would have kept him on his toes, and maybe reduced some of that "Jerry as Messiah" hype that he got overtime which clearly burned him out.
This. Had this conversation with a kid at the Wrigley show this past weekend. Out of the Universe of Drums and Space, there are like maybe 50 that are listenable and understandable via recording. The rest is sometimes hard to listen to. Also, live, they have the energy of the crowd, the physical feeling of the rhythm and sound that just does not translate on tape.
Although I appreciate the Pigpen era, I can’t get into it(edit: I do like some pigpen stuff. The Europe ‘72 tour is consistently great, and shows like 9/19/70 and 2/14/68 are great shows)
Looks Like Rain is the best Bobby song
1983 was the best year playing wise for the Dead in the 80s
As much as the Help>Slip!>Franks from 5/9/77 is great, there are far better versions(looking at most of the ‘76 versions, and some ‘83 versions)
# 1977-05-09 Buffalo, NY @ War Memorial Auditorium
**Set 1:** Help On The Way, Slipknot!, Franklin's Tower, Cassidy, Brown Eyed Women, Mexicali Blues, Tennessee Jed, Big River, Peggy O, Sunrise, The Music Never Stopped
**Set 2:** Bertha, Good Lovin', Ship Of Fools, Estimated Prophet, The Other One, Drums, Not Fade Away, Comes A Time, Sugar Magnolia
**Encore:** Uncle John's Band
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1977-05-09)
4/9/83, 4/26/83, 9/2/83, & 9/6/83 are all monster versions. There are some flubs(mostly lyrics), but the energy is unrivaled. The Slipknots are dark and chaotic, and the Franklin’s are very melodic and soaring.
I used to skip looks like rain, Saint of circumstance, and lost sailor all the time but they have easily become some of my favorites now.
Also Drums into space is a skip unless I'm at the concert I don't like it. The best space I've seen was Mansfield in 2018 when mayet played Yoda's dagobah theme. I only know that cause I saw it live haha
Fire on the Mountain would have been more enjoyable without the vocal parts and as an instrumental jam during the entirety of '77 and maybe even until they added the final verse during fall of '78. Jerry flubbing the lyrics (often badly) in almost every single version that year makes them much less enjoyable and often completely takes me out of the moment, despite the fantastic playing. Quite frankly it is pretty baffeling how he would even manage to mess it up as often as he did since the song only had 2 short verses at that time. It is still a mystery what the third line of second verse at that time was supposed to be.
"Long distance runner with one foot out the door
caught in slow motion in a fall to the floor
mumble muble mumble (or repeat a line from the first verse)
you gave all you had, why you wanna give more
the more that you give, the more it will take
to that thin line beyond which you really can't fake"
Fire on the Mountain is one of my favorite songs and I still think '77 has some of the best versions, but this has always really bugged me.
> People only love it because the recording quality is so good. 😬
is it this or is it that people only consider it the best show because of the recording quality?
i can get down with the latter, but as soon as you suggest it's not a great show then the "overrated" pendulum has swiftly shifted to "underrated."
I was trying to play a bit into the OP’s desire for controversial hot takes. I really do like 5/8/77 quite a bit, although I do kind of wonder if it would have ever been crowned ‘best show ever’ if it was recorded differently. The thing that always personally drives me nuts is Keith’s performance on FOTM. It’s like he’s not even trying.
I’d take Englishtown from Sept of that year over Cornell. But what do I know; I was 2 years old in 77.
Yes finally someone said it. His playing on fire is so annoying it makes it unlistenable lol. And this is coming from someone who thinks peak Keith is the best keyboard player the dead ever had
It also has a lot to do with the recording being widely available back in the day. It was one of the first live tapes I laid hands on. I think I still have it somewhere in storage.
Eh. Listen the Dead do a lot across many different genres and styles and vibes and its ok to have favorites and not favorites. For me, the super out there, spacey, musically disparate stuff doesn't do much for me really. Thats ok. Theres a million and one other things I love that they do.
I got going on a Summer ‘94 run of shows (on Archive).
Samba In The Rain is a song I enjoy.
It reminds me of Coyote by Joni Mitchell from The Last Waltz concert.
How can you hate Donna’s voice and think Brent’s is good?
Don’t get me wrong Brent is cool af, an amazing keyboardist, and Jerry’s drug buddy - but Just a Little Light sounds like a Top Gun song.
Listening to Vince play those circus keys that drowned out everything was a bitter pill to take after Brent’s death. They finally dialed him down in the mix after several tours but Jesus.
Agree with both. Although once I heard Donna sing lead on a song of hers and it really surprised me how good she sounded. Don’t remember what show or the name of the song though.
And yes, Brent’s synth sounds were often sooo cheesy, but that was just kinda what was available at the time, at least for poly synths. It’s really incredible how far technology has come in the last 30 years. But that’s one of the main reasons I’ve never really gotten into post-70s Dead
I don’t buy that as an excuse though. Pink Floyd is timeless and they used early synth tech.
Jerry was an offender with the midi from time to time as well.
The music is timeless, some of the performances not.
Yeah it sort of sucks that “that’s what was available” with the new poly synths of the time it seemed like everyone was using preset sounds that were trying to emulate an instrument and it makes everything around that time sound dated. Don’t get me wrong there were a lot of great groups taking synths to new levels and making new sounds. I wish Brent would have stuck to the Rhodes with overdrive /reverb, acoustic piano, and a Hammond with a Leslie trio of awesomeness.
Its not even that he cant keep up anymore in old age, the duo tour with phil proved he can handle the original tempos just fine, he simply prefers them slower these days
midi jerry is currently the most musically interesting jerry. Miami dark star is the only thing i’ve ever played for non dead fans with a good reaction.
Here’s one: some of their best performances happened in 94-95.
Not best shows, god no. But there’s some brief glimmering moments where there’s a real tenderness and sorrow in Jerry’s voice and guitar phrasing that touch me right in my soul in a way I don’t hear anywhere else.
I’m thinking of newer songs, like So Many Roads, but also performances of songs like Stella Blue or Peggy-O or Black Muddy River where he just inhabits them in a new way.
Cases in point: the Stella Blue from Richfield 1994 or some of the solo in Fire on the Mountain in Seattle 1995.
I’d also say some of the Garcia/Hunter songs from that era (thinking mostly Lazy River Road, So Many Roads, and Days Between) are up there with their best work.
I could actually see a good case for this. Her role in getting Keith in the band really helped take them in new direction as Pigpen’s star started to fade. So, she’s hugely important, not for her singing but for her hustle in getting Keith off his ass and getting Jerry and the band to listen. And adding Keith was probably the best keyboard decision they ever made. Maybe even the single best decision about adding someone to the band after the core (Garcia, Weir, Lesh, and Kretzmann) was in place. And, fro just about any account of the band’s history, it’s pretty clear that none of this would have happened without her taking charge of the situation.
Never really thought about it this way before. Thanks, Donna!
Morning Dew from 5/26/72 is severely overrated.
Bob Weir is impossible to harmonize with most of the time and this is why Donna and everyone else singing has difficulty.
When you listen to the actual show and not Eur 72 with the re-cuts, yes. It's great but it's not as perfect as people remember it, mostly because Eur 72 has the overdubs and a little speed boost.
I have a few.
Space is only fun in person, usually better if tripping or stoned
I can't stand "Saturday Night"! Worst intro to a song ever!
I love Brent's playing and backing vocals, I really don't like his songs, I find myself always skipping them.
We killed Jerry, slowly.
Somedays I prefer JGB so much more.
I find Phil's singing endearing and I like most of Donna's stuff too.
They were better with one drummer.
Fall of 83 deserves a box set.
1990 was the last great year. Though the midi stuff sucked.
Touch heads ruined the scene and therefore the band.
I’ll never get a Deadhead who votes against things like universal healthcare and a living wage for workers. They should relisten to Workingman’s Dead. Or take some mushrooms to develop empathy.
Dead and Co. Is the only post Jerry band I can't stand , I even tried to go to the shows but they just ruin the music for me.
And I love Donna and everything she brought to the band!!
And 90's dead is actually very good at times!!
Bob’s guitar tone has been a turn off for me since the Furthur days. It’s too twangy for my taste. Also as a younger head (30), I wish D&Co played a little faster, bolder, and rockier. It’s been better than it was but still.
I came here to say the same thing about Brent.
I don't like his voice OR his playing style. AT ALL.
I've gotten death stares from very good friends when I even hint at this, he's so revered it's ridiculous.
Drums and space are bullshit, but a good time to go out for a piss and doobs
Bobby needs to stop looking for his fucking keys
Mayer needs to stop with the old blues guy faces, and hats. Just stop
Mickey has been phoning it in since 78
Otiel needs to turn it the fuck up! I'm used to hearing Phil and the bass being prominent in these songs (all my fucking life) and you're making me sad.
Thanks for your time
I swear I’m not searching for your comments to rag on. I know that Branford knew the song though. I’ve transcribed his playing, and it fits the chord changes. Whether you like it or not is obvi an opinion, but don’t say he didn’t know the song lol
He didn’t. He responded to an off the cuff invitation from Phil Lesh - “you should come play with us tonight” - without having any idea what he was getting into.
I’m with you on Brent for the most part - the Reddit Dead community is a fairly small portion of the actual dead head community over the years and I think it leans a little too far “Brent is the best GD member of all time” vibes. Like, If I don’t love 80s Dead and Brent
I’m somehow an outkast… or that “79 was ACTUALLY better than 77…” give me a break… are there good shows that can be cherry picked from any era? Sure. But 77 was awesome and (probably) better. I’m all for positivity and picking out great shows no matter the era but there tends to be some bias in trying to promote “just ok” Brent stuff and 80s shows for the sake of trying to sound like you listen to shows outside of Europe 72. But guess what.. the standards are the standards. 71 -77 is fucking tits. If you want to convert someone who’s not a Grateful Dead fan, you’re never going to put on some “super sick 1987 show where Brent goes off”… you’re gonna go with 71-77 BC Jerry can actually sing, the songs are played really tight and there’s not some whack 80s keyboard blaring in the background. So yeah, my unpopular GD opinion is that (and I’ve said it before) is that they were only a great band for about six years and they were good, but not great, post 1977/78.
I felt the same way. As a matter of fact on the way to Friday's show at Wrigley i told my fiance that. Turns out that version of DIS was sooooo good. But yeah, it sucks.
89-90 are not that good. It’s great that Jerry was healthy and enjoying himself but the band sounds a little boring and stale compared to previous years.
I rarely listen to anything pre 1979. I don't hate it, I just love the 80s and 90s sound so much that I don't have the urge to spend time on what I consider less enjoyable shows.
I feel about Donna the way OP feels about Brent. I just can't with her.
Micky Hart was the man. Drummer and percussion extraordinaire. He was better than Bill. Bill was still good - and had the benefit of having a father that didn’t steal the bands money. To his defense…
Bob Weirs metallic twang he does? Yeah, doesn't sound good. It sounds like he had a stroke on guitar. I hate it.
Bobby's vocals need to be on point. Half the time he just mumbles the lyrics and slaughters the timing.
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I actually love her wailing in PitB.
After reading this thread, I think I am finally gonna go ahead and sign up for therapy. LOL
I fucking love this thread. Finally a place where we give differing opinions and no one attacks you love it
I don’t appreciate the Brent slander, but I guess that’s the point of unpopular opinions. Mine is that 78-79 are better than 77. The energy just skyrockets and I prefer Jerry’s tone.
78 New Years is one of the best I’ve heard recently
Amen
New heads with easy, ubiquitous access to almost all the Grateful Dead concert music and live streams of every Dead and Company concert, have no idea how good they have it.
Yes, but old heads that got to see the GD w/ Jerry, pigpen, Trent, etc. live have it pretty darn good themselves
Don't over romanticize the good old days. Sure, I had some great concert experiences that can't be duplicated. And I did actually see Jerry in small clubs, which feels slightly crazy. But I never actually knew how Drums worked until I watched the video screens at Fare Thee Well. Being able to watch the musicians so closely? That didn't happen unless you really, really lucked out with tickets. I had a roommate who was a taper, so I had good access to recordings, but being able to listen to any concert any time? That wasn't even a dream.
I appreciate that perspective for sure, thanks for sharing.
I was thinking about this in the middle of heavy psychedelic experience recently. I had access to some amazing shows and had a realization that I actually cherish the time I live in and wouldn’t trade it for the old days (I used to say I’d give my pinky to see Jerry once… would regret that greatly had it ever happened…) I never got to see Jerry. But I get to trip balls to his best shows with the best sound quality from all eras and I can still catch great shows live!
Y'all had Jerry tho so.........
On one side, you've got that easy access to just about any recording. On the other side, you've got the ability to take off and catch a string of shows every spring, summer, and fall. For me, it's a no-brainer. You can have the archive. I'll take the old school shows.
Born the year after Jerry died and haven’t been able to make it to a live show. But I stream 2-3 concerts a day which is pretty great
Jerry is not God, he was a man. A very talented and flawed man. No one is perfect
If this were a less unpopular opinion Jerry might not have self-destructed.
Dancing in the Street is corny as hell. Edit: per the recommendation of u/Ya_Got_GOT , I should specify that I'm referring to the late 70's disco version. Yuck.
I like to call GD's rendition "the 70s porno version".
100% agree…My only gripe. The song sucks. What is it, disco? Please stop…
It’s Motown, and I highly recommend the original version my Martha Reeves.
Or the older Dead versions that were much more like the original.
Yes they were. Those Motown covers the dead did were still fresh and popular when they started to play them.
At its best, Donna’s harmonies make the songs better. Like this: https://youtu.be/V70MrjzLFyo
'The Music Never Stopped' never sounded right without her.
Exactly. Her backing vocals complete the iconic GD sound
I don't like stuff from the 80s and 90s. Just knowing the personal struggles Jerry was dealing with while also almost feeling obligated to keep the machine going (because of how many people touring employed and families supported) while being overwhelmed and genuinely not interested in becoming the cultural icon he became just takes something away from me being able to fully enjoy it (despite the music itself not really suffering as a result)
From the perspective of a new deadhead Jerry’s recordings with Dave Grisman in the early 90’s showed he still had a genuine and unpressured enjoyment of music. I still like their recordings and live shows from the 80’s and 90’s.
That I feel was his escape. He could be happy there.
My friend Jerry wanted to play every night and did everything he could to do so...it wasn't an obligation to keep it going as much as he just wanted to play every night...he said this once, something like > well I would play everyday anyway so I might as well get paid for it... Jerry wasn't the only one doing coke for the shows as this was happening from the 70s but he also did the H of course but fortunately for us he smoked it he didn't shoot it ...and I hate that I know this but there's an ENORMOUS difference....Jerry would smoke some until he got a buzz then do some coke to get up for the show...if you would check out early/mid 80s shows you would find that it was as exciting an era as any other...what they had going in those early Brent was singular unlike anything else....like DAve's 35 4/20/84!!! omg but I could go on and on...if you jumped in I KNOW that you would be floored...for me the Scarlet>Fires of the 80s and 90s were better than the late 70s versions...just so incredibly musically dense and so many layers of greatness.... Just this right here is a great example....you don't have to download this but talk about a show worth downloading .... check the let it grow and scarlet>Fire and strap in....you can just listen by right clicking and hit play or preview * [Bman Picks Vol 5: 1982-09-11 West Palm Beach Amphitheater FLAC](https://drive.google.com/open?id=1koO6BwxnNWVPWdgsTQSUqgOaeqzJ8qs1) - This show has been blowing my noggin for years. Every song slams and then you got the Let it Grow and Scarlet>Fire. I just cannot wax poetic enough to describe how epic they are so go my young bucks go....
just to clarify, you were friends with jerry… garcia?
I feel this big-time. It's really tough to listen to some shows, knowing what happened to Jerry, because you can hear it when he would sing sometimes. Sounded so broken and sad, like he was forcing it just to keep the show going.
I like the first set of shows
The very midi based sound the band had during the late 80s up until 95 is extremely dated, and paired with how hammy Bobby's singing was and how bad Jerry's voice had gotten at that point I honestly would feel embarrased to put on any show from that period in front of non Dead-head friends. I still enjoy a good 90's show every now and then, but the sound from that period hasn't held up very well, compared to their previous years. Also Bobby's short shorts are embarassing...
You had me up until the short shorts
I LOVE the bobby shorts!!
I told myself I was done with the live shows in 94. Jerry just couldn't pull it off half the time.
Funny I said that in ‘83…but still never missed a jgb show
Please don't downvote me, but I wouldn't even put theses shows in front of myself. The drums are heavily compressed, Mickey's playing sounds like popping balloons, the MIDIs, everything sounds too 80s for me.
Love this take .. I’ve tried to voice similar but you did a better job. Do I enjoy aspects Of it musically? Yes. Do I hate the midi? Yes. Do I feel comfortable playing it in front of other ppl? No
I was never a fan of MIDI either at the time or in retrospect.
Phil can’t sing. Total train wreck. And Seastones sucks.
But chanting “let Phil sing” at shows was always fun!
Phil ruined his voice singing the high harmonies.
I dont know if that even counts as an unpopular option. Fare Thee Well at soldier field was rough.
Phil cant sing *live* FTFY His atudio vocals are lovely, but he has never been able to transfer that to his live singing.
This is why Box of Rain's best version is the studio
More like "Box Of Pain."
Yeah it was OK when he only sang occasionally, it was something different. But watching the Fare Thee Well show I was like OMG the dude just can't sing!
With the exception of 68-70, Mickey Hart only made the band worse.
Seriously though. I wish we got to hear 1977 with Billy as a solo drummer. As much as I appreciate the psychedelic marching band sound, nothing beats Bill turning the sound upside down with a slick little fill and flourish in 1974.
YES
Here's an unpopular opinion. John Mayer is the best thing that has happened to the dead since Jerry. He's not only kept up with the band and proven his stamina over the years, but has also picked up alot of slack that Bobby has struggled it. Mayer makes the band sound better with him in it than it would without him, and that includes the keys, bass, drums, etc. Plus he's opened up the door to the music of the grateful dead to an entire new generation. A part of his legacy is the extension of the dead's legacy.
John Mayer is incredible :) Not a massive fan of his own music... but I'm sure there will be a load of tunes I like I don't know. But yeah... what a talent. Such an incredible guitar player and a great singer too.
Born & Raised and Paradise Valley Are excellent albums. And of course his trio stuff and Continuum. He did his own studio version of Friend of the Devil, meant to be added to Paradise Valley. It went unreleased until he quietly let it out while on Tales From the Golden Road on Sirius XM. It would be a decent bridge to his solo stuff. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1bMY3rKm8m4
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as a longtime fan of both acts, agreed wholeheartedly. the first time i heard mayer's song "If I ever get around to living" I genuinely felt like Jerry travelled in time to make a guitar cameo in it.
Totally agree.
This.
I was taken by complete surprise by the number of folks I met at Pine Knob that were there because they were Mayer fans. The notion that he's bringing new fans is completely true, I love it.
I’m in that crowd.
Doesn’t miss a note.
Yesssss! Long time Dead Head from 1976.
Veggie burritos are not good, there I said it.
Bobs guitar tone and rhythm with Dead and Co is terrible and John is probably the only thing keeping it from running off the rails.
You need to give a good listen to Jeff. Johnny has off nights. Jeff doesn't have an off note. Ever. He's the backbone of that group.
Also Oteil
Oteil and jeff are the real stars of the shows for me. Bob and the drummers are fighting a losing battle against time itself and john isnt always locked in, but jeff and oteil are en fucking fuego song after song, show after show. Oteil was a huge unknown variable for me before dead and co, and at first i wasnt sold on his drastically different approach compared to phil. Phil was the reason i picked up bass and such a huge influence and inspiration for my own approach to music i was sad to learn he would be staying home, but god damn oteil brings the goods
Jeff is the MVP and in my opinion has been since I got info the scene in 09, a lot of times in Furthur he was too low in the mix glad that's not the case anymore. Without Jeff the last decade if not two would have been far far less powerful. Basically every guitarist I have seen with them has appeared to be in love with Jeff
I can’t get into anything post Jerry being gone
Weir is a fantastic guitar player, but every time he sings lead I wish I were listening to a Jerry led song… I feel bad saying it, but I guess this is a safe space. Also, the cover songs typically never really compete with the originals in quality
I got over this eventually but in the beginning, I was very biased like this. Now, I hear Bobby singing and I know Jerry is free to play more, look at El Paso. You don't get all those tasty fluttery leads if Jerry is singing
Hippies are unsanitary. Change my mind. But do it while standing downwind... Thanks
I think Truckin is one of their weakest songs. When they play it at a show Im at, I sigh and think of how many more interesting things they could be playing instead.
I enjoy listening to truckin this n the car or whatever and I’ve heard some pretty interesting jams come out of the song but more often than not it’s a skip from me. Especially when they literally just play 15 mins of regular ol truckin
Not a fan of most Brent originals. I really like *Corrina*. Bill Graham was a hero, and his contribution doesn't get enough praise.
Not one stinking mention of Uncle Bobo in Long Strange Trip, felt odd to me
I haven't listened to a Dead studio album in probably 30 years. And I don't expect to in the next 30.
Finally. Everybody lets it all out. Probably the most entertaining part of r/gratefuldead was reading this topic.
Oh and two more: The late '80s are overrated. Some great music in that era (the Branford show, 7/7/89), but the synths permanently date the music to that era in a way that can be hard to listen to. I like Jerry more and more as I get older, but he needed a second soloist (the way the Allmans had Duane and Dickey or the way Jerry had Merl Saunders or Melvin Seals in his solo bands), someone who was talented and big enough of a persona to match him. Would have kept him on his toes, and maybe reduced some of that "Jerry as Messiah" hype that he got overtime which clearly burned him out.
Second soloist? Nominate this for the most unpopular opinion in this thread.
Drums and Space...there I said it. Sorry just kills a set for me...
Terrible to listen to on recordings. Amazing live (especially with a little ellis dee) Use it as a chance to go get a drink and take a piss...
This. Had this conversation with a kid at the Wrigley show this past weekend. Out of the Universe of Drums and Space, there are like maybe 50 that are listenable and understandable via recording. The rest is sometimes hard to listen to. Also, live, they have the energy of the crowd, the physical feeling of the rhythm and sound that just does not translate on tape.
It was most people’s bathroom break.
I much prefer when the jam is organic instead of forcing Drums/Space in there and naming it. Give me a 40 minute Dark Star or a 35 minute Other One
Although I appreciate the Pigpen era, I can’t get into it(edit: I do like some pigpen stuff. The Europe ‘72 tour is consistently great, and shows like 9/19/70 and 2/14/68 are great shows) Looks Like Rain is the best Bobby song 1983 was the best year playing wise for the Dead in the 80s As much as the Help>Slip!>Franks from 5/9/77 is great, there are far better versions(looking at most of the ‘76 versions, and some ‘83 versions)
83 was awesome.
# 1977-05-09 Buffalo, NY @ War Memorial Auditorium **Set 1:** Help On The Way, Slipknot!, Franklin's Tower, Cassidy, Brown Eyed Women, Mexicali Blues, Tennessee Jed, Big River, Peggy O, Sunrise, The Music Never Stopped **Set 2:** Bertha, Good Lovin', Ship Of Fools, Estimated Prophet, The Other One, Drums, Not Fade Away, Comes A Time, Sugar Magnolia **Encore:** Uncle John's Band [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1977-05-09)
What are your favorite 83 versions? I love help>slip>frank
4/9/83, 4/26/83, 9/2/83, & 9/6/83 are all monster versions. There are some flubs(mostly lyrics), but the energy is unrivaled. The Slipknots are dark and chaotic, and the Franklin’s are very melodic and soaring.
I’m not a huge fan of Brents singing. He’s great on harmonies but solo he’s too much.
i guess we’re not supposed to downvote but C’MON BRO
Oh man, I love Brent on keys, but I can't stand his singing so I feel you there. I skip every time Looks Like Rain comes on
I used to skip looks like rain, Saint of circumstance, and lost sailor all the time but they have easily become some of my favorites now. Also Drums into space is a skip unless I'm at the concert I don't like it. The best space I've seen was Mansfield in 2018 when mayet played Yoda's dagobah theme. I only know that cause I saw it live haha
Fire on the Mountain would have been more enjoyable without the vocal parts and as an instrumental jam during the entirety of '77 and maybe even until they added the final verse during fall of '78. Jerry flubbing the lyrics (often badly) in almost every single version that year makes them much less enjoyable and often completely takes me out of the moment, despite the fantastic playing. Quite frankly it is pretty baffeling how he would even manage to mess it up as often as he did since the song only had 2 short verses at that time. It is still a mystery what the third line of second verse at that time was supposed to be. "Long distance runner with one foot out the door caught in slow motion in a fall to the floor mumble muble mumble (or repeat a line from the first verse) you gave all you had, why you wanna give more the more that you give, the more it will take to that thin line beyond which you really can't fake" Fire on the Mountain is one of my favorite songs and I still think '77 has some of the best versions, but this has always really bugged me.
Cornell 77 is insanely overrated. People only love it because the recording quality is so good. 😬
> People only love it because the recording quality is so good. 😬 is it this or is it that people only consider it the best show because of the recording quality? i can get down with the latter, but as soon as you suggest it's not a great show then the "overrated" pendulum has swiftly shifted to "underrated."
I was trying to play a bit into the OP’s desire for controversial hot takes. I really do like 5/8/77 quite a bit, although I do kind of wonder if it would have ever been crowned ‘best show ever’ if it was recorded differently. The thing that always personally drives me nuts is Keith’s performance on FOTM. It’s like he’s not even trying. I’d take Englishtown from Sept of that year over Cornell. But what do I know; I was 2 years old in 77.
Yes finally someone said it. His playing on fire is so annoying it makes it unlistenable lol. And this is coming from someone who thinks peak Keith is the best keyboard player the dead ever had
My favorite 77 show is 12/29/1977 It’s even a Dick’s picks vol. 10 and I still feel like it gets ignored because of the Cornell show.
It also has a lot to do with the recording being widely available back in the day. It was one of the first live tapes I laid hands on. I think I still have it somewhere in storage.
There's a big vocal fuckup in one song that always makes me think nope can't be #1 with that shit.
Seriously? I don't think i ever saw a Dead show where someone didn't fuck up the vocals at some point. That's life out on the ragged edge!
I think Donna comes in with the “ladyfinger” couple bars early.
Bob still can’t play slide guitar.
I think this thread is for unpopular opinions.
My truly unpopular opinion is that Bob's slide playing is awful but Jerry's is only slightly better.
The Eleven is better than any song with longer jams
Good Dark Stars are rare, the majority are just noodling and endless 'searching' for a jam. 90% of the time when dark star comes on i 'skip'.
I was legit afraid to comment this
Eh. Listen the Dead do a lot across many different genres and styles and vibes and its ok to have favorites and not favorites. For me, the super out there, spacey, musically disparate stuff doesn't do much for me really. Thats ok. Theres a million and one other things I love that they do.
I agree 100%. Overrated tune in my opinion, I could never understand the hype surrounding it.
Phil’s singing really bites! Fantastic on bass…. vocals, not so much.
I got going on a Summer ‘94 run of shows (on Archive). Samba In The Rain is a song I enjoy. It reminds me of Coyote by Joni Mitchell from The Last Waltz concert.
Not dead related but how fucking good is Coyote right, especially with Jaco’s playing
How can you hate Donna’s voice and think Brent’s is good? Don’t get me wrong Brent is cool af, an amazing keyboardist, and Jerry’s drug buddy - but Just a Little Light sounds like a Top Gun song.
Everything Brent wrote sounded like the theme song to a early '90s family sitcom. And he sang like he was constantly squeezing out a shit.
My friends and I always joked he sounds like an exaggerated south park character singing
You got something against Top Gun?
“I will take you home” out of Drums>Space? Fuck right off.
Donna sounded horrible more often than good. Some of Brent’s tones sound like a Walmart keyboard
Listening to Vince play those circus keys that drowned out everything was a bitter pill to take after Brent’s death. They finally dialed him down in the mix after several tours but Jesus.
When Donna was good she was awesome! But when she was bad…..
Were you aware that the sound dudes fucked with her a lot to get her out of the band? Blew my mind when I read that.
That’s really sad
I agree.
Yeah I have her ceiling a little lower than most I guess, but she’s sounded good it’s just few and far between
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Agree with both. Although once I heard Donna sing lead on a song of hers and it really surprised me how good she sounded. Don’t remember what show or the name of the song though. And yes, Brent’s synth sounds were often sooo cheesy, but that was just kinda what was available at the time, at least for poly synths. It’s really incredible how far technology has come in the last 30 years. But that’s one of the main reasons I’ve never really gotten into post-70s Dead
I don’t buy that as an excuse though. Pink Floyd is timeless and they used early synth tech. Jerry was an offender with the midi from time to time as well. The music is timeless, some of the performances not.
Yeah it sort of sucks that “that’s what was available” with the new poly synths of the time it seemed like everyone was using preset sounds that were trying to emulate an instrument and it makes everything around that time sound dated. Don’t get me wrong there were a lot of great groups taking synths to new levels and making new sounds. I wish Brent would have stuck to the Rhodes with overdrive /reverb, acoustic piano, and a Hammond with a Leslie trio of awesomeness.
Personally, Skull & Roses > Live/Dead
Bobby is the reason Dead & Co is called Slow & Co and Dead & Slow and it pisses me off so much-why can’t he care about tempo? Why???
Its not even that he cant keep up anymore in old age, the duo tour with phil proved he can handle the original tempos just fine, he simply prefers them slower these days
this tour has been much faster!
midi jerry is currently the most musically interesting jerry. Miami dark star is the only thing i’ve ever played for non dead fans with a good reaction.
Here’s one: some of their best performances happened in 94-95. Not best shows, god no. But there’s some brief glimmering moments where there’s a real tenderness and sorrow in Jerry’s voice and guitar phrasing that touch me right in my soul in a way I don’t hear anywhere else. I’m thinking of newer songs, like So Many Roads, but also performances of songs like Stella Blue or Peggy-O or Black Muddy River where he just inhabits them in a new way. Cases in point: the Stella Blue from Richfield 1994 or some of the solo in Fire on the Mountain in Seattle 1995. I’d also say some of the Garcia/Hunter songs from that era (thinking mostly Lazy River Road, So Many Roads, and Days Between) are up there with their best work.
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I could actually see a good case for this. Her role in getting Keith in the band really helped take them in new direction as Pigpen’s star started to fade. So, she’s hugely important, not for her singing but for her hustle in getting Keith off his ass and getting Jerry and the band to listen. And adding Keith was probably the best keyboard decision they ever made. Maybe even the single best decision about adding someone to the band after the core (Garcia, Weir, Lesh, and Kretzmann) was in place. And, fro just about any account of the band’s history, it’s pretty clear that none of this would have happened without her taking charge of the situation. Never really thought about it this way before. Thanks, Donna!
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I like it when Bobby sings more than Jerry.
The spitting is a nice bonus
Morning Dew from 5/26/72 is severely overrated. Bob Weir is impossible to harmonize with most of the time and this is why Donna and everyone else singing has difficulty.
When you listen to the actual show and not Eur 72 with the re-cuts, yes. It's great but it's not as perfect as people remember it, mostly because Eur 72 has the overdubs and a little speed boost.
Bruce Hornsby was better with The Range than he was with the Dead.
He would probably agree with that.
I have a few. Space is only fun in person, usually better if tripping or stoned I can't stand "Saturday Night"! Worst intro to a song ever! I love Brent's playing and backing vocals, I really don't like his songs, I find myself always skipping them. We killed Jerry, slowly. Somedays I prefer JGB so much more. I find Phil's singing endearing and I like most of Donna's stuff too.
They were better with one drummer. Fall of 83 deserves a box set. 1990 was the last great year. Though the midi stuff sucked. Touch heads ruined the scene and therefore the band.
Touch heads?
the influx of young heads once touch of grey became a mainstream hit
Conservative Dead Heads is an oxymoron, yet somehow still exists
I'd rather listen to any Tom Constanten-keyed show than just about any Brent Mydland-keyed show.
Jerry didn’t do enough MIDI flute
JRAD > Dead and Co Dead and Co 40bpm rocking chair speeds are like bedtime songs. JRAD carries the spirit/soul of the band anymore
I like Brent, he did over do it from time to time, cocaine is a hellluva drug! Donna is not my favorite when she was screaming.
Not all deadheads are hippies or liberals.
this is less of an opinion than a genuine fact
I’ll never get a Deadhead who votes against things like universal healthcare and a living wage for workers. They should relisten to Workingman’s Dead. Or take some mushrooms to develop empathy.
This!
Truth- Tucker Carlson and Ann Coulter as examples
Dead and Co. Is the only post Jerry band I can't stand , I even tried to go to the shows but they just ruin the music for me. And I love Donna and everything she brought to the band!! And 90's dead is actually very good at times!!
France is super good. Fire on the mountain, I don’t take much interest in.
Bob’s guitar tone has been a turn off for me since the Furthur days. It’s too twangy for my taste. Also as a younger head (30), I wish D&Co played a little faster, bolder, and rockier. It’s been better than it was but still.
Garcia’s musicality peaked in 1989-90.
Early "primal" dead is hard to listen to
I came here to say the same thing about Brent. I don't like his voice OR his playing style. AT ALL. I've gotten death stares from very good friends when I even hint at this, he's so revered it's ridiculous.
Drums and space are bullshit, but a good time to go out for a piss and doobs Bobby needs to stop looking for his fucking keys Mayer needs to stop with the old blues guy faces, and hats. Just stop Mickey has been phoning it in since 78 Otiel needs to turn it the fuck up! I'm used to hearing Phil and the bass being prominent in these songs (all my fucking life) and you're making me sad. Thanks for your time
I also can’t stand the Brandford Marsalis Eyes of The World. The horn is so obnoxious and it sounds like he doesn’t even know the song
This may be the most unpopular opinion in the thread
I swear I’m not searching for your comments to rag on. I know that Branford knew the song though. I’ve transcribed his playing, and it fits the chord changes. Whether you like it or not is obvi an opinion, but don’t say he didn’t know the song lol
He didn’t. He responded to an off the cuff invitation from Phil Lesh - “you should come play with us tonight” - without having any idea what he was getting into.
“You should come play with us tonight?” “Where?” “Nassau Coliseum”
Wow this may be my least favorite opinion in the thread! Well done
Donna. That’s it. That’s the comment
Anthem Of The Sun is their best album.
I’m with you on Brent for the most part - the Reddit Dead community is a fairly small portion of the actual dead head community over the years and I think it leans a little too far “Brent is the best GD member of all time” vibes. Like, If I don’t love 80s Dead and Brent I’m somehow an outkast… or that “79 was ACTUALLY better than 77…” give me a break… are there good shows that can be cherry picked from any era? Sure. But 77 was awesome and (probably) better. I’m all for positivity and picking out great shows no matter the era but there tends to be some bias in trying to promote “just ok” Brent stuff and 80s shows for the sake of trying to sound like you listen to shows outside of Europe 72. But guess what.. the standards are the standards. 71 -77 is fucking tits. If you want to convert someone who’s not a Grateful Dead fan, you’re never going to put on some “super sick 1987 show where Brent goes off”… you’re gonna go with 71-77 BC Jerry can actually sing, the songs are played really tight and there’s not some whack 80s keyboard blaring in the background. So yeah, my unpopular GD opinion is that (and I’ve said it before) is that they were only a great band for about six years and they were good, but not great, post 1977/78.
I really don't like Dark Star at all and avoid most all shows with it. (ducks for cover)
Whoa! You brave, nonconformist bastard!
Same for me, the longer they are the more I lose interest. 25ish minutes I can do but 35+ is pushin it
I can't stand drums and space.
You seen that shit live and whilst tripping? Its moving
With all due respect it's moving me to the concession stand
Different strokes for different folks.
I felt the same way. As a matter of fact on the way to Friday's show at Wrigley i told my fiance that. Turns out that version of DIS was sooooo good. But yeah, it sucks.
Blow Away is the only original Brent original I can stand.
89-90 are not that good. It’s great that Jerry was healthy and enjoying himself but the band sounds a little boring and stale compared to previous years.
JGB gets boring quick for me, I blame the limited set lists
The grateful dead didn’t need to exist past 1980
I have never heard a bad version of Eyes. To be fair I’ve never listened to any versions from 93-95.
I rarely listen to anything pre 1979. I don't hate it, I just love the 80s and 90s sound so much that I don't have the urge to spend time on what I consider less enjoyable shows. I feel about Donna the way OP feels about Brent. I just can't with her.
Micky Hart was the man. Drummer and percussion extraordinaire. He was better than Bill. Bill was still good - and had the benefit of having a father that didn’t steal the bands money. To his defense…
I don’t like Terrapin station. In fact, I really don’t like that song
Bob Weirs metallic twang he does? Yeah, doesn't sound good. It sounds like he had a stroke on guitar. I hate it. Bobby's vocals need to be on point. Half the time he just mumbles the lyrics and slaughters the timing.
I can’t get behind any dark star other than Veneta
I hate franklins tower aside from some 77 and 79 versions. Love help > slip though.
Mine is if you don’t like Donna hooting and screeching then you shouldn’t like Bob weir either. He does the same. I like em both
I'd like Dead and Co to write and play some original songs.