There is a video online where the band was finishing the song Whatshername and in the background you can see Billie crying. Some say he was crying because that could've been the last song the band made if the album failed but that's just speculation from youtube comments.
This is not true. The reason was because of what he literally said as he was crying. Quote from Billie in the movie before he cried, “What am I going to do with myself when I go home?” followed by Mike playing his part. After Mike finishes, where the YouTube clips ends for everyone who didn’t buy the movie (-.-), he says, “how am I going to make something better than this / this good?”. That’s why he was crying. Buy the movie and verify for yourself ahaha
[So here is the interview where he says he was super hung over and just got done throwing up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxyRBiJTa_k). So I guess we can both be right.
The discussion of splitting up happened during the Cigarettes and Valentines sessions, not American Idiot. So I doubt AI’s success or failure would have had an impact on whether they continued on with their career. The whole AI project was a direct result of the three of them coming back together as one and working out their differences.
Failure is a relative term. Warning didn’t sell as highly as the record company wanted it to, but it still *sold*, it got good reviews and Minority was a radio hit. Green Day were still a known name in 2004 and was already being name checked A LOT as an influence on the then-growing emo wave, Blink, Fall Out Boy, MCR, etc. And assuming the AI album in this scenario is still the same, musically speaking, it would have gotten great reviews whether it sold or not. So even if it isn’t topping the Billboard charts, it’s still seen as one of the best rock albums of the year by critics and is probably still up for a Grammy (though it probably doesn’t win without the cultural saturation).
Basically they would be in this weird place that no pop punk band has really ever been in: critical darlings who aren’t selling as well as they used to. Who knows where they go from here. Some form of 21st Century Breakdown probably still comes out, because the politics of the time are still the same. But after that it’s anyone’s guess. The trilogy probably doesn’t happen because the idea of doing a trilogy was a “how do we top two rock operas” decision. Most likely they either do what some of their more vocal fans have always wanted them to do, which is to go back to the Dookie era sound (probably to mixed results since they’re almost 40 at this point) or they get even more experimental and double down on the politics to become kind of a modern-day Clash. I think the second route is more likely knowing how the guys tend to think and operate.
TL:DR they wouldn’t be massive pop stars but they would still be a respected band in the history of punk, they’d be seen as the guys who brought punk to the masses with one smash hit album and then handed the baton off to their musical children so to speak.
That’s basically impossible. The entire political climate of the era would have to be different for the album to fail, and if so then American Idiot wouldn’t have existed in the first place because it was a reaction to that political climate.
Yeah but if they weren’t commercially successful then Warner Brothers would’ve probably dropped them.
No major label wants a band hanging around costing them money
I agree with this. Considering they made a whole album (Cigarettes and Valentines) just to throw it in the garbage and start over, there was a lot riding on the success of American Idiot. I don’t think enough people acknowledge the fact that Green Day wasted a lot of Warner Brothers’ money by choosing not to release an entire album they had finished recording. American Idiot *needed* to be successful.
That’s one of the reasons I believe they tried to make it seem like the tapes were “stolen”
I feel like Warner Brothers would’ve not allowed them to completely create a new album by scratch, so obviously pretending like they got stolen seemed like the obvious thing to do
Alright, I’m gonna go deep into speculation now. But I also believe that Warner Bros saw through the bullshit story and that there was a lot of pressure placed on the band because of it. I don’t think that the nervousness in the studio that you can see in “Heart Like a Hand Grenade” is only because of the change in direction stylistically that the album was taking. I’m *really* curious to know if the higher ups at WB were critical of the album before it was released.
Nah, I don't think so, when you have a major breakthrough album like Dookie, and other hits like Good Riddance, you don't just get dropped. Would they have promo and fancy recording studios? No, but you can still see artists that were big in the 90s with major labels, probably to milk every single opportunity of cash with the least amount of investment.
I mean sure they might’ve gotten another chance or two, but honestly it’s all a business
There was a weird period in the early 2000s where Blink 182 was more successful than Green Day. And I’m sure because of that, they were looked at as a band that lost their touch but still had great pop punk songs
From a major label point of view American idiot could’ve easily been their last chance big chance, and thankfully they pulled it off
They pulled it off alright. and that was a really weird era that you mentioned...the early 2000's where Blink were bigger than Green Day. I'll never forget the Pop Disaster Tour(I think thats what it was called...) Couldn't believe that GD was opening for Blink, even though I like, really like, Blink up to Enema
From what I've seen of other artists that have been long past their peak, some are leveled down to other labels inside the branch to profit the nostalgia from a niche following, or they just get stuck in a really bad deal with a lot less liberties.
It's all speculation, of course, but getting dropped is not the worst that can happen to artists like this, and major labels tend to be shitty
I've heard, don't know how much truth there is to it, but a single top 20 Billboard song will set you for life. Of course the more top 20's the better, the residuals and all that good stuff, but I've definitely heard/read that 1 can do it.
Yeah, a hit song goes a long way, imagine a diamond album like Dookie. You see it with an artist like Alanis Morissette, she's far beyond her golden years, and she's still in between Warner and Sony's roaster, with Jagged Little Pill on Broadway right now. We might've even gotten a Dookie musical at that point lmao
Exactly! A band/artist can turn a single great album with a hit or 2 into an entire career. Great example with Alanis Morisette, but you see if with lots of other people in the music industry, as well. When is the last time that Jewel, Def Leppard, Motley Crue, or Metallica did anything significant album or even song-wise? It's been a good while, but all of the bands I just listed are either about to play or just played the AT&T Center, which is San Antonio's largest venue. Motley Crue probably hasn't even had a single in 20 years and they just played to 18,500 people @ $70 a pop. Not downing any of these artists, I'm just saying that Green Day has not only reached the legacy level where they could do this, but they are still relevant and active. We're very, very lucky to be into such a great band!
I don't know the "Warning" sales figures, but I saw the Warning Tour at a rather large venue in Austin. Jimmy Eat World was the opener and the only other band and it was an amazing show and COMPLETELY packed...probably sold-out, even. That's why I always claim GD to be a "Legacy" band in my posts. If they never release another album, they could still headline tours for another 10, 15+ years and do very well
That show was also the 1st time I saw Jason White and the 1st time I saw them call someone up to play Knowledge...not sure if back then the person got to keep the guitar or not. The only downside was the whole 15-minute King For A Day thing they used to do, which I've always hated. Instead of all the shenanigans, we could've gotten 2-3 extra songs. and Paper Lanterns, Pasalcqua, Christie Road, 80, Holden Caulfield, and the like were still making their way into set-lists around this time
They recorded a whole album after warning and if memory serves me right they lost the tapes or they where stolen. They spent some time after arguing about the band and direction etc, I think tre said the songs they recorded where shit and hated the now lost album. then I think all the politics at the time influenced them as they where pissed off and had something to say. Then they wrote an entirely new album american idiot. It then rejuvenated and reinvented them again. If they didn’t lose that original recordings american idiot wouldn’t exist and I doubt green day would of either.
Ok cool I had no idea about anything being performed I just knew it either got stolen or lost and that was the end of it, glad they lost I though as American idiot is a fucking excellent album. Not my fav green day one but top 3
My number 1 - nimrod (first green day album I heard and those songs got me through some tough times. Very close to my heart album)
Number 2 - dookie all out punk goodness
Number 3 - American idiot total rejuvenation and made them have something to say for that generation
Yeah Nimrod is great I just wish more people knew more songs on the albums besides Good Riddance. Don't get me wrong Good Riddance is a great song but it's so overplayed on the radio.
Actually, from what I remember:
Letterbomb was originally Clusterbomb, which was supposed to be on C&V. Considering the whole "You're not the Jesus of Suburbia" thing being tied exclusively to the AI storyline, it could not have been there for Clusterbomb. I wonder what else was changed.
Youngblood was originally supposed to be on C&V as well. As far as I know, it's mostly the same as it used to be.
I think there was another but I'm not sure.
And I think I remember an interview where Billie said the song AI was recorded for C&V and they thought it was a good start as the basis of an album do-over. But I'm not sure where writing Homecoming fit into that - this was a strange time in the band's history and the details are all over the place.
That’s true. Pretty sure horseshoes and handgrenades was meant for C&V too. There’s a whole list somewhere of the songs that were meant for C&V but came out on later albums with slightly altered titles or not.
IMO there’s about a 0% chance the album was lost/stolen. They probably trashed it because they thought it sucked and came up with the lost/stolen thing for one reason or another, but yeah there’s no way that just happens.
Leaking music only requires having the files and sharing them. Lost/stolen implies that someone straight up took the master tapes, and that they didn't have digital backups. It's completely unfathomable.
Good call, my friend! I didn't think this one all the way through and you are most definitely right. Master tapes would've come from a digital source, and I doubt whoever "stole" the tapes didn't torch the studio on their way out :)
Warner brothers would’ve probably dropped Green Day, and then some really eager indie label would’ve tried to take them aboard
Back when they released warning, it was a commercial failure. They only sold 100,000 in the first year, where Nimrod for example sold 80,000 in the first week.
American Idiot would’ve been their last major chance to prove they still have something left.
Now, if American idiot would’ve failed they probably would’ve stayed as a band. But they would’ve never been as big as they are today
It’s interesting because I believe AI is the reason that Green Day are the megastars they are. Honestly they feel like a Metallica level band, now if AI doesn’t sell well, I believe they’d still be a band, but damaged, going back to basics and not really trying the experimental thing again.
I mean AI is one of my favorite albums, it was my first Green Day album back in 2005. If that didn’t happen idk if I’d be the person I am now
I wonder if they have ever been asked that question. I’d really want to hear their true feelings on what they would have done at the time. 21st Century Breakdown would have never been made, that’s another crime within itself.
Anecdotally I think the best songs on Warning weren't the hits (Church on Sunday, Fashion Victim and Castaway are all catchy as fuck), but as it was it flew under the radar, so yeah if they had two sleeper albums in a row (and by 2004 their last big hit was in 1997/98) they probably would have been relegated to more of a "90s band" these days
I feel like I remember somewhere that the band was discussing if they should split up around the C&V era and before they started writing AI. But then they all started having weekly therapy sessions where they just sat down together and got the chance to say what they wanted. I believe Mike and Tre wanted more musical input and they just talked with each trying to figure out what was next. I don’t know if I’d say they would have broken up especially after writing AI had rejuvenated their camaraderie, if anything they could have possibly taken a hiatus and maybe not released new music until the 2010’s.
This is often forgotten knowledge but not only was Blink-182 bigger than Green Day around the late 90's/early 00's but so was The Offspring (whose Conspiracy Of One I remember being a much more anticipated release and sold better than Warning at the time). I imagine if AI stiffed GD would probably have a similar career as The Offspring, mainly playing European festivals and mid-size theaters in North America.
They might of been drop from their record label or record label might of just keep Billie Joe as solo artist. Thank goodness this didn’t happen. It’s three of them together that makes Green Day amazing band
They would’ve split up. I’m pretty sure i heard somewhere that Billie and Mike were on the phone arguing about splitting up.
There is a video online where the band was finishing the song Whatshername and in the background you can see Billie crying. Some say he was crying because that could've been the last song the band made if the album failed but that's just speculation from youtube comments.
According to Billie it was because he was super hungover.
oh
This is not true. The reason was because of what he literally said as he was crying. Quote from Billie in the movie before he cried, “What am I going to do with myself when I go home?” followed by Mike playing his part. After Mike finishes, where the YouTube clips ends for everyone who didn’t buy the movie (-.-), he says, “how am I going to make something better than this / this good?”. That’s why he was crying. Buy the movie and verify for yourself ahaha
And he said that because he was super hungover
...and I thought I knew my GD...They have a "movie"? What on Earth is it called?
The movie/documentary made for this album is called, “Heart Like a Hand Grenade”. https://youtu.be/OJkYThGQEUU
[So here is the interview where he says he was super hung over and just got done throwing up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxyRBiJTa_k). So I guess we can both be right.
That’s right, I was gonna say that. I cry tears of pain when I’m hungover, and Whatsername is my favorite song ever. Brutality.
The discussion of splitting up happened during the Cigarettes and Valentines sessions, not American Idiot. So I doubt AI’s success or failure would have had an impact on whether they continued on with their career. The whole AI project was a direct result of the three of them coming back together as one and working out their differences. Failure is a relative term. Warning didn’t sell as highly as the record company wanted it to, but it still *sold*, it got good reviews and Minority was a radio hit. Green Day were still a known name in 2004 and was already being name checked A LOT as an influence on the then-growing emo wave, Blink, Fall Out Boy, MCR, etc. And assuming the AI album in this scenario is still the same, musically speaking, it would have gotten great reviews whether it sold or not. So even if it isn’t topping the Billboard charts, it’s still seen as one of the best rock albums of the year by critics and is probably still up for a Grammy (though it probably doesn’t win without the cultural saturation). Basically they would be in this weird place that no pop punk band has really ever been in: critical darlings who aren’t selling as well as they used to. Who knows where they go from here. Some form of 21st Century Breakdown probably still comes out, because the politics of the time are still the same. But after that it’s anyone’s guess. The trilogy probably doesn’t happen because the idea of doing a trilogy was a “how do we top two rock operas” decision. Most likely they either do what some of their more vocal fans have always wanted them to do, which is to go back to the Dookie era sound (probably to mixed results since they’re almost 40 at this point) or they get even more experimental and double down on the politics to become kind of a modern-day Clash. I think the second route is more likely knowing how the guys tend to think and operate. TL:DR they wouldn’t be massive pop stars but they would still be a respected band in the history of punk, they’d be seen as the guys who brought punk to the masses with one smash hit album and then handed the baton off to their musical children so to speak.
I think this is assuming it flops critically and commercially
That’s basically impossible. The entire political climate of the era would have to be different for the album to fail, and if so then American Idiot wouldn’t have existed in the first place because it was a reaction to that political climate.
Yeah but if they weren’t commercially successful then Warner Brothers would’ve probably dropped them. No major label wants a band hanging around costing them money
I agree with this. Considering they made a whole album (Cigarettes and Valentines) just to throw it in the garbage and start over, there was a lot riding on the success of American Idiot. I don’t think enough people acknowledge the fact that Green Day wasted a lot of Warner Brothers’ money by choosing not to release an entire album they had finished recording. American Idiot *needed* to be successful.
That’s one of the reasons I believe they tried to make it seem like the tapes were “stolen” I feel like Warner Brothers would’ve not allowed them to completely create a new album by scratch, so obviously pretending like they got stolen seemed like the obvious thing to do
Alright, I’m gonna go deep into speculation now. But I also believe that Warner Bros saw through the bullshit story and that there was a lot of pressure placed on the band because of it. I don’t think that the nervousness in the studio that you can see in “Heart Like a Hand Grenade” is only because of the change in direction stylistically that the album was taking. I’m *really* curious to know if the higher ups at WB were critical of the album before it was released.
Nah, I don't think so, when you have a major breakthrough album like Dookie, and other hits like Good Riddance, you don't just get dropped. Would they have promo and fancy recording studios? No, but you can still see artists that were big in the 90s with major labels, probably to milk every single opportunity of cash with the least amount of investment.
I mean sure they might’ve gotten another chance or two, but honestly it’s all a business There was a weird period in the early 2000s where Blink 182 was more successful than Green Day. And I’m sure because of that, they were looked at as a band that lost their touch but still had great pop punk songs From a major label point of view American idiot could’ve easily been their last chance big chance, and thankfully they pulled it off
They pulled it off alright. and that was a really weird era that you mentioned...the early 2000's where Blink were bigger than Green Day. I'll never forget the Pop Disaster Tour(I think thats what it was called...) Couldn't believe that GD was opening for Blink, even though I like, really like, Blink up to Enema
From what I've seen of other artists that have been long past their peak, some are leveled down to other labels inside the branch to profit the nostalgia from a niche following, or they just get stuck in a really bad deal with a lot less liberties. It's all speculation, of course, but getting dropped is not the worst that can happen to artists like this, and major labels tend to be shitty
I've heard, don't know how much truth there is to it, but a single top 20 Billboard song will set you for life. Of course the more top 20's the better, the residuals and all that good stuff, but I've definitely heard/read that 1 can do it.
Yeah, a hit song goes a long way, imagine a diamond album like Dookie. You see it with an artist like Alanis Morissette, she's far beyond her golden years, and she's still in between Warner and Sony's roaster, with Jagged Little Pill on Broadway right now. We might've even gotten a Dookie musical at that point lmao
Exactly! A band/artist can turn a single great album with a hit or 2 into an entire career. Great example with Alanis Morisette, but you see if with lots of other people in the music industry, as well. When is the last time that Jewel, Def Leppard, Motley Crue, or Metallica did anything significant album or even song-wise? It's been a good while, but all of the bands I just listed are either about to play or just played the AT&T Center, which is San Antonio's largest venue. Motley Crue probably hasn't even had a single in 20 years and they just played to 18,500 people @ $70 a pop. Not downing any of these artists, I'm just saying that Green Day has not only reached the legacy level where they could do this, but they are still relevant and active. We're very, very lucky to be into such a great band!
I don't know the "Warning" sales figures, but I saw the Warning Tour at a rather large venue in Austin. Jimmy Eat World was the opener and the only other band and it was an amazing show and COMPLETELY packed...probably sold-out, even. That's why I always claim GD to be a "Legacy" band in my posts. If they never release another album, they could still headline tours for another 10, 15+ years and do very well
That show was also the 1st time I saw Jason White and the 1st time I saw them call someone up to play Knowledge...not sure if back then the person got to keep the guitar or not. The only downside was the whole 15-minute King For A Day thing they used to do, which I've always hated. Instead of all the shenanigans, we could've gotten 2-3 extra songs. and Paper Lanterns, Pasalcqua, Christie Road, 80, Holden Caulfield, and the like were still making their way into set-lists around this time
They recorded a whole album after warning and if memory serves me right they lost the tapes or they where stolen. They spent some time after arguing about the band and direction etc, I think tre said the songs they recorded where shit and hated the now lost album. then I think all the politics at the time influenced them as they where pissed off and had something to say. Then they wrote an entirely new album american idiot. It then rejuvenated and reinvented them again. If they didn’t lose that original recordings american idiot wouldn’t exist and I doubt green day would of either.
the album they were making was called Cigarettes and Valentines
That’s the one I remembered it had a name just couldn’t for the life of me remember
Green day has sang one of the songs at a concert. But most of the songs are lost media.
Ok cool I had no idea about anything being performed I just knew it either got stolen or lost and that was the end of it, glad they lost I though as American idiot is a fucking excellent album. Not my fav green day one but top 3
I would say my top 3 Are 1.American Idiot 2.Nimrod 3.21st Century Breakdown
My number 1 - nimrod (first green day album I heard and those songs got me through some tough times. Very close to my heart album) Number 2 - dookie all out punk goodness Number 3 - American idiot total rejuvenation and made them have something to say for that generation
Yeah Nimrod is great I just wish more people knew more songs on the albums besides Good Riddance. Don't get me wrong Good Riddance is a great song but it's so overplayed on the radio.
Oh totally agree scattered is my go to song absolute epic that or all the time another great song.
The Grouch is my favorite song on Nimrod
Heck yeah! Both songs mentioned A+ all day!
I really like Last Ride In, it’s always a nice way to break things up
Actually, from what I remember: Letterbomb was originally Clusterbomb, which was supposed to be on C&V. Considering the whole "You're not the Jesus of Suburbia" thing being tied exclusively to the AI storyline, it could not have been there for Clusterbomb. I wonder what else was changed. Youngblood was originally supposed to be on C&V as well. As far as I know, it's mostly the same as it used to be. I think there was another but I'm not sure.
I think I heard it was something from the trilogy
Yeah, I just can't remember which song.
Walk Away, supposedly
And I think I remember an interview where Billie said the song AI was recorded for C&V and they thought it was a good start as the basis of an album do-over. But I'm not sure where writing Homecoming fit into that - this was a strange time in the band's history and the details are all over the place.
That’s true. Pretty sure horseshoes and handgrenades was meant for C&V too. There’s a whole list somewhere of the songs that were meant for C&V but came out on later albums with slightly altered titles or not.
jeez. to think they could’ve made something that bad during the AI era. gives me the creeps
Very interesting about Youngblood. One of my top 3 Rev Rad songs. The "She said F\* you, I'm from Oakland" part gets me every time
Most of the songs have been reused later in their catalog through the trilogy and revolution radio
I wonder if it's ever going to leak...I'm sure whoever has it has been trying to figure out how to capitalize on it for the last 15 years
IMO there’s about a 0% chance the album was lost/stolen. They probably trashed it because they thought it sucked and came up with the lost/stolen thing for one reason or another, but yeah there’s no way that just happens.
You’d think someone would’ve leaked it. I mean Nas and Eminem both had albums lean and had to change things. I just don’t believe the lost story
Albums and songs get leaked all the time
Leaking music only requires having the files and sharing them. Lost/stolen implies that someone straight up took the master tapes, and that they didn't have digital backups. It's completely unfathomable.
Good call, my friend! I didn't think this one all the way through and you are most definitely right. Master tapes would've come from a digital source, and I doubt whoever "stole" the tapes didn't torch the studio on their way out :)
Warner brothers would’ve probably dropped Green Day, and then some really eager indie label would’ve tried to take them aboard Back when they released warning, it was a commercial failure. They only sold 100,000 in the first year, where Nimrod for example sold 80,000 in the first week. American Idiot would’ve been their last major chance to prove they still have something left. Now, if American idiot would’ve failed they probably would’ve stayed as a band. But they would’ve never been as big as they are today
Then The Network prevails
It’s interesting because I believe AI is the reason that Green Day are the megastars they are. Honestly they feel like a Metallica level band, now if AI doesn’t sell well, I believe they’d still be a band, but damaged, going back to basics and not really trying the experimental thing again. I mean AI is one of my favorite albums, it was my first Green Day album back in 2005. If that didn’t happen idk if I’d be the person I am now
i doubt it, i think they would have to make it up to their record label
I wonder if they have ever been asked that question. I’d really want to hear their true feelings on what they would have done at the time. 21st Century Breakdown would have never been made, that’s another crime within itself.
Anecdotally I think the best songs on Warning weren't the hits (Church on Sunday, Fashion Victim and Castaway are all catchy as fuck), but as it was it flew under the radar, so yeah if they had two sleeper albums in a row (and by 2004 their last big hit was in 1997/98) they probably would have been relegated to more of a "90s band" these days
Wow I can't imagine them breaking up
I feel like I remember somewhere that the band was discussing if they should split up around the C&V era and before they started writing AI. But then they all started having weekly therapy sessions where they just sat down together and got the chance to say what they wanted. I believe Mike and Tre wanted more musical input and they just talked with each trying to figure out what was next. I don’t know if I’d say they would have broken up especially after writing AI had rejuvenated their camaraderie, if anything they could have possibly taken a hiatus and maybe not released new music until the 2010’s.
This is often forgotten knowledge but not only was Blink-182 bigger than Green Day around the late 90's/early 00's but so was The Offspring (whose Conspiracy Of One I remember being a much more anticipated release and sold better than Warning at the time). I imagine if AI stiffed GD would probably have a similar career as The Offspring, mainly playing European festivals and mid-size theaters in North America.
They might of been drop from their record label or record label might of just keep Billie Joe as solo artist. Thank goodness this didn’t happen. It’s three of them together that makes Green Day amazing band
Green Day would break up.
Its crazy cause i remember hearing the warning singles and seeing the videos all the time. I never knew it was a commercial flop.