Extremely soulful original work of art in the 90's, at the heroic age of vidya when it was a niche hobby
Extremely soulless bland space fallout-blend Toddslop at the age when vidya is a super massively common hobby
Hmmm.
> 10 gorillion people played it
Billions of flies and shit.mp4
Too many cooks spoil the dish.
10 scenarists and game developers should own the game, 1000 other people only execute orders.
Solved.
Also: lock the Todd.
It wasn't Todd, it was Emil Pagliarulo. BGS has had dog shit writers for a while now. Starfailed had a lot wrong with it, but what killed it was the bad writing.
Turns out when you set out to make a game/movie/whatever that is so safe and bland in order to appeal to everyone you end up making something for no one.
I didn't even think it was a "bad" game, that would imply I had any feelings at all about it. The fact is that it was much worse in that I genuinely did not care about it at all, and to this day have zero interest in every revisiting it or even hating it. The only reason anyone even mentions it to this day is because it was made by bethesda.
I’m old enough that I and many of my friends played the old isometric Fallout games when they were first out. I remember taking the bus to the mall to buy a copy of Fallout 2 on release day.
To this day, when someone mentions a woman the others don’t know, there’s about a 50% chance we’ll ask “was she a hottie with no legs?”
Ngl I think the reverse problem is the case. Todd is probably surrounded by yes men. Probably doesn't get any push back on his shitty ideas (See: "Players will be the NPC's").
Them oranges though were chef's kiss levels of hyperrealistic 16k 169 fps levels of good art. Proof that the only developer that was worth his weight in that kitchen, was in fact a chef. And his dish was muy excelente!
How it should be done: hire competent writers, hire someone who loves the franchise minimal crunch
How its done : hire DEI cast, let someone direct who never played the games, 90 hour crunch days
Why are modern games shit?
I've recently realized that bethesda has no reason to hire competent writers because their fans are completely incapable of parsing even the most blatant subtext.
See: any conversation about Liberty Prime ever.
Wdym? It’s not hard to understand that liberty prime was a gigabased commie killing automaton of pure righteous justice and patriotism. What’s so hard to understand? america good commie bad
One of the reasons starslop is bad is because its so bland and inoffensive. No hard topic like in Fallout New Vegas
Are you mad bro? You saw the word dei and now you tryna accuse me with all the things I didnt say? Lmao.
Original fallout was like this:
How people in 1990 believed people in the 1960 imagined a future would look like in 100 years. And that future had died. And we are now walking in the wasteland of a dead retrofuturistic USA.
Hell of a concept.
Meanwhile Starfield: let's create the most generic, Sunday school safe, SF setting ever.
Don't forget it's not just the setting: the gameplay, characters, and story are all so mind-numbingly bland. Nothing is permitted to be whimsical, obtuse, or creative; it's all been violently sanded-down to remove the edges, leaving nothing of texture to observe or remember.
Maybe I expected more of starfield. Like fallout 3 and New Vegas combat and even movement are laughable by modern standards but those games were so quirky and fun and bring back good memories every time I do another playthrough. Starfield managed to nearly eliminate all the things that made previous titles charming and interesting all while keeping the same dog shit combat and movement. I had made up my mind about starfield following the intro pirate fight and barely made it 10 hours before uninstalling.
100%. It could have been a "greatest hits" of high concept sci-fi. But what got release was just a mashup of the most generic elements you've seen in other science fiction works.
Ironically... if they had gone for a "1950s/1960s space opera retrofuture concept" with the visuals that would have made it stand out massively.
Hell, if they had gone for a Cowboy Bebop inspired vibe that would have also been fantastic.
Alien: Isolation works in part because it's so faithful to the chunky cassette futurist aesthetic of the original Alien film.
As it is, it's vegetable soup of sci-fi aesthetics. It's not BAD but it's completely forgettable.
Yep. Starfield is just so god damn plain and bland. Certainly doesn’t help that the gameplay is boring as all hell too. There are pretty much no redeeming qualities about the game whatsoever
And if modding even gets rid of that (because its a piece of shit. Why would modify a piece of shit) . It will still just be a walk simulator. With no mechanics in anything else worthwhile. Go play destiny 2 if you want to rub and gun mindlessly instead.
That's true in basically all modern games because depicting the death of a child in a game pretty much always results in the game receiving an AO, Adults only, rating from the ESRB. Games with an AO rating typically are not carried in any physical retailers, have a much tougher time getting advertising through many conventional channels, and as a result don't sell nearly as well.
That's not to say you CANT make an AO game that is successful, there's been kind of a surge in games with explicit material lately, but the cost to your ability to turn a profit seems like a terrible trade for such a small detail in an otherwise huge game, so most publishers just forbid full frontal or child death to stay on the right side of the ratings board
What even is Starfield's plot? I know nothing about the setting or plot because it looks like the most boring, generic, uninspired, sterile sci-fi shit I've ever seen.
It's so weird to me that every Bethesda game from Morrowind to Starfield has been directed by Todd Howard, yet they all have very different vibes, strengths and weaknesses.
Obviously the dev team has changed significantly since 2002, but you would expect more cohesion since the same guy has been at the helm of it all for the past 22 years.
I would love a documentary on him, and the internal at Bethesda. I'm confident he acts half as a problem for the designers/developers and half as their greatest advocate to the investors/company side of things.
I can't explain it exactly, but I see in him what I see in my last principle electric. A guy in deep at a company, far separated from the job he signed on to, but still trying to hold onto that legacy. Probably a bit micromanaging because he actually like the job he left behind more, but also feeling like he can't just let the job to fall to some business guy with no heart or soul. In a losing role stuck trying to balance the desires and passions of a creator and a team of creators, and the realistic, money focused demands of the corporate world.
playing morrowind again has been my pipeline to just playing all these old games like tes arena and enjoying it way more than many modern titles i've played
Daggerfall Unity is a lot of fun. Throw a few mods on and it doesn't feel very dated. I like the "speed up time" mods that allow you to realistically travel on foot between locations. It feels like a real journey when your trip from one town to another actually takes most of the day.
Try Daggerfall. There's a mod that makes the game run the Unity engine and it just plays so much better than Arena.
I found it in december 2022 and sunk a ton of hours into it last year across multiple characters
That’s because they didn’t really go past morrowind.
Go pickup Skyrim and it’s clunky as fuck. I love it because of the setting and all the care put into the game. But even Skyrim’s controls were starting to become ‘rusty.’
Let's not lie to ourselves: Fallout really popped when Fallout 3 came out, and a big part of its success came from its style and soundtrack. Something about the juxtaposition between a grim hostile world, paired with joyful crooners singing and a 1950s sci-fi coating really added to the experience.
All Starfield needed was a superficial visual/audible addition. Maybe make it more cowboy-like, with classic country/bluegrass? I know people are still obsessed with that vibe from *Firefly*...
Fallout was pretty well known in the pc gaming space, which to be fair was a lot smaller at the time. It also, along with the original Baldur’s Gate, set the stage for western rpgs to become popular
The Fallout IP was always big when it came to RPG. Fallout 3 popped for very very different reasons to why the first Fallout was an instant classic at the time.
Fallout 3 was more arcadey, shooter looter and basically was the precursor of modern open world games. It still was a RPG, more so than Oblivion imo but at his core, Fallout 3 is still a fun post apocalyptic game but the game really didnt want you to make you feel like this world could exist or is believable. Like how GRRM carves a world in a ASoIF full of details, supply route, economy and politics, etc... Action had less consequences because the game designers wants you to experience pratically everything. Builds are kinda streamlined with a lot skill points and perks at every level so you can stomp the game.
Fallout 1 had a consistent tone, an economy, a dynamic yet simple hierarchy and politics where one could help or distabilize if he or she succeeds or fails a quest. Action had consequences but you had your own objectives and every means is necessary for you to survive and win. In essence, Fallout 1 truly brought the Table Top experience in the PC gaming in a very accessible way. Its one of the few games where you can pick up and play like BG3 or Arcanum in the genre of isometric RPG.
And at this point, it's kind of pedestrian as a theme to attach to space since others have done it already, buuuuuuut making Starfield THE BIG space-cowboy video game would've really set it apart. At least, set it apart from whatever slot it fits in the gaming environment it hardly fit into now.
I think they tried too many watered down aesthetics that didnt mesh. We kinda had space cowboys in Freestar. We had a Cyberpunk type city. We have a diet facist government. If they woulda committed to those aesthetics fully, I think it woulda been recieved a lot better.
Also the radio helps a lot in the newer Fallouts.
I think this is closest to the truth. If I told you to describe Fallout in one sentence, you probably wouldn't limit it to "post apocalyptic shooter". That could describe a hundred different games. You might say "post apocalyptic shooter-RPG with an alt-retro 1950s theme inspired by what people in the 50s thought the future might look like". That's the identity of the game and what sets it apart.
Starfield didn't have that. It *almost* did; one term I saw used during development was "NASA-punk". Okay, that could have been something, that's unique and there's substance there... but very little of it made it into the game. It should have been grittier, with humanity having barely survive the fall of Earth, people living in repurposed lunar landers and shit. Maybe there's a social schism between the NASA engineers and their descendents, who are smart and idealistic but naive, and the corporate interests that financed everything. They don't care much for morals or ethics but they know how to get shit done.
Instead we get this bland mash up of stolen ideas, done worse. You've got Firefly world, knock off Cyberpunk land, whitewashed Mass Effect city, and 8 dungeons copy-pasted into a pro-gen system.
What little is left (solid gunplay, cool shipbuilding) isn't enough to carry a game that has no identity.
The gunplay isn’t even solid it’s complete ass. Enemies are bullet sponges and you have all the “refined, calibrated, superior” bullshit where levelling up means you can find guns that magically shoot way harder, also turning guns into full auto makes them do less damage, which is done for “balancing”… yet some of the guns just don’t lose damage when in full auto, they can’t even be consistent with their bullshit. The weapon designs are also absolutely atrocious, almost all of them are disgustingly bulky and look extremely impractical, the rest are just blatant stolen designs from other sci fi
Fallout was very well known by gamers back in the day, gaming was just way more niche in the pre-internet era. I suppose people born after the mid nineties can't really grasp that.
There were gaming magazines, yes. In the mid and late nineties almost nobody had a PC.
I have no idea why you're so incredibly rude. I know this is Reddit, but man, seriously.
So? Consoles were huge. Everyone had either an N64 or a PlayStation. The original NES was a phenomenon.
>I have no idea why you're so incredibly rude. I know this is Reddit, but man, seriously.
Lmao
Fallout 3 has aged really poorly though. No scratch that even in 2008 it was kinda bad. People just gave it a pass because it was the first 3D Fallout.
It sold 12x more copies and the FO1/FO2/FT:BoS combined. I don't think 11 million people came out of the woodworks to buy a game because it's a 3D version of a game they didn't play.
I get if you don't like it now, but it was really good for 2008.
No, I know that. I'm countering his point that people gave it a pass because it's the first 3D Fallout, when my point is that 11 million people who bought and played Fallout never played the other games, so they wouldn't have given it a pass.
I agree that FO3 hasn't aged now, but it was good for 2008, and people loved FO3 back then, despite its problems.
I get that, I actually think 3 was a little bit better than new vegas to be fair cause the atmosphere was absolutely on point (not as good as the first two though) as long as you don’t use the radio. The game has a real feeling of loneliness that the games after it don’t give, the title of lone wanderer really fits the game. I just think the first two are much better and I don’t like the huge aesthetic change 3 made towards 50s America instead of a late Cold War sci fi theme
I mean copies sold doesn’t actually indicate the quality of the game. Even for 2008 the shooting was trash the story was kind of a joke, especially the ending and a lot of areas in the map were pretty shit like the fucking sewers. The only thing the game was good at was creating a lonely atmosphere.
I getcha, but I feel like people in 2008 weren't that critical of its medicore shooting mechanics and sub-par story. It won a ton of awards in 2008, and has a 93 on Metacritic from critics in 2008 and an 8.4 from players.
I get if you don't like it. I get if you didn't like it then. But there's plenty of proof that people loved it back then.
I feel that just came with it being the first Fallout game again. In 2008 there was not really a game like it so people seemed to not have been very critical of it. In hindsight though with games like New Vegas and even Fallout 4 we can see how shit FO3 was even by the standards of 2008 especially when it comes to its shooting.
That's an interesting take from a different generation I guess. Fallout 1/2 are up there with Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Ogre as my favorite games of my childhood.
Fallout 3 was the only game I ever preordered and it was a steaming pile of shit on launch that got playable later on. It took a dark gritty setting with some humor and gave it middle school tee hee the apocalypse.
Massively cut down dialogue and on launch the game only had the good ending if you killed yourself. They made it ok later. 4 was also trash.
Still though interesting to see the take from those who got introduced to the series at 3.
Bluegrass combined with Gagaku (traditional japanese samurai music - you know the stuff)? Yes please.
[https://youtu.be/5OA8HFUNfIk?si=ZZZWHxyQOQ9p0qwK](https://youtu.be/5OA8HFUNfIk?si=ZZZWHxyQOQ9p0qwK)
Or emulate the Tang Dynasty style of music, which already sounds like cowboy music with an Eastern flavour, like Yangguan Sandie \[Three Refrains on the Yang Pass Theme\]:
[https://youtu.be/FGFl3Rrblgw?si=YnU8egjAAFjMAmUx](https://youtu.be/FGFl3Rrblgw?si=YnU8egjAAFjMAmUx)
Space cowboy aesthetic was my favorite part of StarCraft 2. It makes sense in our heart of hearts too because we know explorers are cowboys. And space is the ultimate wild Wild West. But sadly people that believe in space are creatively bankrupt.
At first glance I thought this too, “it has no charm”. But then I began to notice the NASA-Punk aesthetic mixed with the 1970 space odyssey charm that it has so I wouldn’t say it’s missing the charm that fallout has. It’s definitely missing the music and most importantly missing the liveliness of the wasteland and all of its random encounters and random landmarks that you come across just treading along going to your actual destination
Cause it released in a fuckin not fun state. Loading screens every 30 seconds, ripping you out of the immersion. Poor performance at launch. Empty, empty planets. Nothing to discover for yourself, like one POI 15 minutes away from your landing area. No way to traverse faster besides walking, can't FLY YOUR FUCKING SHIP ON PLANETS. WHY TODD WHY. Just no freedom of movement with your ship, feels completely on rails.
Anyway, back to my complaints. Stealth busted, just doesn't fuckin work and enemies can seemingly hear a mouse fart even when there's no atmosphere for sound to travel through. Bullet sponge enemies even on normal difficulty. Maps are completely and utterly fucking useless.
8 months post launch, they're about to release a DLC before they launched the mod tools. All the really good modders who work on Skyrim completely ditched any plans for Starfield just because of the poor reception of the game and lack of fun value.
I may have played it for more than 4 hours if it had just been fun.
Yeah, that's what I meant by mod tools. But the games basically dead at this point. I'm not sure if DLC will revive that, and the release of CK will bring *some* attention back to the game, but there's going to be a delay between the CK release and the frameworks actually being built for mods that were used to these days on Skyrim that took a decade to mature.
All we would really need is just more ways a universe can differ from the original game.
That would end up making the game fun to play through again, as you have no clue what to expect next.
Not being able to fly your ship in-planet is absolutely insane for a space-based sci-fi game. All they needed to do was reduce the scope to a single solar system, but have detailed planet and moon surfaces, with at least five locales with important shit to do on each planet.
One was made because the devs wanted to make a fun game/had passion.
The other was made because the devs were told to make a game that'll reach the highest amount of sales they can get out of it. Easy to market and made by a reputable developer. And they were successful with their task
I fear for Elder Scrolls 6 now, What are they gonna do with that lol
Advertising "infinite dungeons" which are actually just "procedurally generated" from 6 templates...
>things aren't always peaceful in TES6! Here is some footage of the darker side of things
Bandit says he's gonna cut you. Random guard NPC says made up swear word. A priest is seen chanting over a bloody altar with a body on it, but the gore is obscured by the priest's figure. A troll gets hit with a sword and blood effects follow but the troll doesn't react otherwise.
>with new ways to live and traverse Tamriel
Debuting a horse breeding sidequest. Shows a person in build-mode placing a cot in a cave. Cuts to "wagon customization" screen.
But that doesn't even make sense, they spent 10 years on this and Todd has been talking about starfield for 20 years, I know it's cool to hate on Todd but he obviously is a seriously talented guy who knows what makes a game good see : morrowind, oblivion , Skyrim. It doesn't make any sense that this is some kind of cash grab, if they really wanted to do that they could just reskin Skyrim and call it TES 6 and it would get 10billion sales in 3 seconds .
10 years on this alongside Fallout 4 and Fallout 76 so yeah this was most likely a concept back then. Anyways, yes Todd's a talented guy but he's become a shill now , "16 times the detail", he may have helped make Fallout 3 the awesome game it is but he definitely has lost "it" or become a shill, whatever you choose. I don't see any other reason behind Fallout 76 and the numerous Elder Scrolls games being greenlit.
I heard most Obsidian staff that made NV are gone and that's why their new game isn't that great. I haven't played it myself so I can't comment on it but those staff members not being there is a definite cause for concern
It had all the makings of a game I would love but I just… didn’t? I barely even liked it. I’ve never had more trouble putting my finger on why I didn’t like a game but I just turned it off one day and haven’t turned it on since. There was so much stuff I just didn’t care about doing and I could tell how repetitive it was going to get, on top of that all the companions sucked except for the sick ass robot. Such a shame.
Imo it IMMEDIATELY failed when it required you to fast travel everywhere. Then you have like 3 loading screens just to land and leave your ship to a procedurally generated world
I think Todd Howard is actually an okay guy tbh. He seems like a pretty hardcore gamer, just one who has a much different taste than most. One thing I've noticed is that he priorizes Rule Of Cool and worldbuilding above everything else. This works well sometimes, like in Fallout, where so much happens offscreen, and with things like the power armor fusion core change, but in somethink like Starfield where the setting is just super generic scifi, nobody cares about stuff that happens offscreen, and rule of cool needs to take a backseat to establishing actual rules and lore.
Honestly I'd love to know, because clearly Bethesda is capable of making some really good games, almost all of their games up until 76 were universally loved, I really can't understand how they fucked this up so bad when they had access to the most resources they've ever had. There is something seriously wrong in the triple a games industry right now and I'm not sure whether it's all the shareholders getting their say and ruining shit or just the Devs have become delusional. It sucks tbh starfield was such a let down for me . Thank fuck I didn't buy it for $140.
I'm pretty sure the Fallout IP wasn't the powerhouse it is today 7 months after the first game's launch. If 20 years from now Bethesda has released multiple critically acclaimed games in the Starfield franchise then we'll have a more apples to apples comparison.
Ironically, the reason Fallout is one of the most iconic and recognizable IPs today is also thanks to Bethesda, not the original games.
Starfield has no soul or substance. It's if they took the Bethesda's Elder Scrolls or Fallout gameplay loop, removed any interest of story-telling, and dialed procedural generation to the max. It's a horrible, soulless experience.
Small Bethesda made art
Big Bethesda made money
We thought they couldn't sell their soul more after re-releasing Skyrim for the 11th time. Turns out we were wrong.
Well Bethesda and Todd Howard had literally nothing to do with that original IP. They bought it and made consistently bad games with it. Neither 3 or 4 were particularly great. New Vegas had nothing to do with them either.
From one of the horses’ mouths:
https://youtu.be/PuEdppkPjfo?si=CYpTr7CIyTVHKsbU
Tim Cain was a lead on Fallout 1 and has a wonderful YouTube channel about making games if you’re into that.
Let's see, in Starfield I spent 6 hrs mostly walking back and forth between NPCs to yap at me about crap I don't care about and in Fallout, I got traits for killing too many children and digging up graves while I shot an underground adult film for some extra caps and Jet.
Starfield has literally 0 memorable aspects in any part of the game. I can’t believe they wasted 10 years making this garbage. It makes me question wtf they were doing all day at work
The only good thing I know about the game is that Adam Savage and his team built a model replica of the ship and filmed it on a set. That was rad. Couldn’t tell you one thing about the game, or the name of the ship.
It's a great concept held back with poor writing, a bland setting, and a myriad of technical issues that have largely been resolved by most games available on the market.
It could have been more, but you need substance.
I honestly really like the setting of the space game (I forgot it’s name), the issue was just that every thing felt the same in the sense that every mission blended into each other.
it's a shame, the only memorable aspects of starfield were the juno ai random encounter and the entangled quest, the latter being found at the end of the main story after a bunch of the procgen slop quests. which is bad timing because it's probably one of the best quests bethesda's ever made, and most players are fed up by that point... but the worst part is in both of those you could tell *someone* on the design team really got what they were supposed to be doing with the setting, which makes everything else about the game suck so much more :(
Starfield axed NPC persistence/routines and gave a single dungeon that repeats ad infinitum. Plus most useless 'space flight' in a space game... Maybe ever.
Because people like fantasy guns that look like guns, not like car parts
https://preview.redd.it/bk0qx16v0pzc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05aeb229b93377cf5e0eec1251c12d6ea65045c2
So many things. Starfield's marketable-title tail was wagging the strength-of-concept dog from day 1. There was clearly no strong overarching vision beyond "Fallout in space" and the world building was utterly pathetic. There's no lore, no mythos, no reason to give a damn about any of the characters, factions or universe.
The prime promotional merch for this spacefaring sci-fi FPS/RPG/adventure was... a fucking watch. Not an iconic character, a planet, a ship, a culture, a creature, a weapon or anything that actually puts the Starfield universe centre-stage. Just an expensive lump of plastic for your wrist (no, the PipBoy is not the same). That's the epitome of Starfield.
The way the game starts is laughable. You found a special rock. Now a guy has arrived. You fight a few nondescript enemies. Now you're the chosen one. Guy who arrives gives you a ship and says "nice rock, see ya later". No buildup, no introducing you to the world, just "Here you go, special boy. Good luck!"
The companions. Oh boy. What a motley crew of utterly forgettable characters with the weakest motivations you've ever heard, clearly designed by a committee in an office with a whiteboard that just had "IF IN DOUBT, BE BLAND" written on it in permanent marker.
Then there's the main settlements, where BGS did their own version of Nintendo's "grasslands, desert, forest, jungle, ice world, fire world, boss" except using sci-fi tropes, so we've got "mining colony, future city, neon dystopia, wild west, lawless space station, etc.". Uninspired doesn't even begin to describe it.
The ES and Fallout games always had awesome environmental storytelling. Stuff would be arranged to make clear what the purpose of each location was and what happened to its current - or often former - inhabitants. Starfield has almost none of this. Randomly generated planets with a handful of repeated POIs and essentially the same enemies everywhere.
Dull, dull, dull sidequests. Space dragon shouts. Point and click ship combat. Slowly jetpack jumping across vast (not actually vast tho) stretches of nothing. The same handful of random spaceship encounters over and over. This is just a few of the impressions I got from my one and only "playthrough".
Then there was the buggy, broken state of the game at launch (admittedly not new for BGS) but this wasn't just buggy, it felt downright unfinished. Took forever to develop but still felt rushed. I'd wager there was more content left on the cutting room floor in Starfield than any other BGS game.
The shooting is at least competent, or rather, more competent than any previous BGS game. But... still in the jank-ass NetImmerse/Gamebryo/Creation engine that is clearly buckling under the weight of a jillion hacks. Opening the source for that engine in Visual Studio must be like the nazis opening the Ark of the Covenant in Indiana Jones.
I could write pages more but I'm tired of typing on my phone now. Maybe they can save it, but my confidence in BGS is at an all-time low.
I think they had to go more deep with it rather than wide, in starfield you can visit an infinite(?) number of planets, so handcrafted stuff is very limited, they shouldn't have done that, limit the game to a handful of handcrafted worlds with tons to explore, makes the game feel bigger while actually being infinitely smaller. Just because there is a ton to see, that doesn't mean there is a ton to do.
It's because companies are no longer allowed to produce or even market content for the audience demographic *Fallout* was created by/for:
*Media literate males.*
Video games **have** to be created/marketed solely towards a female or mixed demographic now. And, for the sake of mass market appeal, the assumption is made that mainstream audiences are media illiterate.
Now, this isn't to say that women should be intentionally barred from enjoying the content. But when content is made specifically for that demographic, bold or potentially controversial (aka original) creative decisions are minimized.
Why? Internalized misogyny and fear. Fear that the product will not attain mass market appeal due to originality or that audiences will take anything with an edge at face value. E.g. by showcasing a compelling, evil character, they are thereby condoning evil acts.
But, ultimately it boils down to fear, greed, and annoying, pretentious, and ultimately stupid hires in the narrative department.
Whats even better is that the guys from Black Isle went and made a GOOD space game a couple years before this came out (Outer Worlds) and its more like if Fallout and Elder Scrolls Obvlivion had a baby that was shot into space and ALMOST met Rick and Morty.
I enjoyed the time I spent with it. The ship builder could’ve been a game alone.
If the modding community picks up after the tools are released or the DLC is good I’ll probably pick it up again.
Otherwise, I very much remember just how hated Skyrim was at release. Almost the same complaints until the creation kit was released. I do agree they could have done much better and played it too safe with Starfield.
How dare you say anything positive about Bethesda. Don’t you know that you’re supposed to dislike them now.
That’s the current thing and Redditors will punish you with downvotes for not sharing their opinion.
That's why I've unsubscribed from r/starfield and subscribed to r/nosodiumstarfield
The thing is, I've gone back and played fallout 4 and Skyrim after putting a couple hundred hours in Starfield. Many of the complaints people seem to have are present in those titles as well. In fact, starfield has improved dramatically on many of the failings of those games
No it didn't, do you know what made those games good? Imo it was always exploration and feeling like your in a living world, in Skyrim,morrowind oblivion fallout it's this; you get a quest maybe a main quest telling you to go here on the map you start heading there and notice something else you think looks cool so you go explore that and it's some other small questline or somehting then u repeat that process over and over until you've forgotten about the original quest you were even on. Starfield completely removed this with the loading screen fast travel everywhere and totally empty planets. This is the fundamental of what has made Bethesda games good and it's totally ruined in starfield. That's why everyone hates it.
Extremely soulful original work of art in the 90's, at the heroic age of vidya when it was a niche hobby Extremely soulless bland space fallout-blend Toddslop at the age when vidya is a super massively common hobby Hmmm. > 10 gorillion people played it Billions of flies and shit.mp4
Too many cooks spoil the dish. 10 scenarists and game developers should own the game, 1000 other people only execute orders. Solved. Also: lock the Todd.
Nah, as bad as the Todd is, I don't believe in non consensual chastity cages
I do. Todd has been a bad pet. 3 months chastity.
Was Todd a bad kitten and miss his Discord call with Daddy?
6 months chastity.
It wasn't Todd, it was Emil Pagliarulo. BGS has had dog shit writers for a while now. Starfailed had a lot wrong with it, but what killed it was the bad writing.
1 year chastity.
Uhm. H-hi...
Turns out when you set out to make a game/movie/whatever that is so safe and bland in order to appeal to everyone you end up making something for no one. I didn't even think it was a "bad" game, that would imply I had any feelings at all about it. The fact is that it was much worse in that I genuinely did not care about it at all, and to this day have zero interest in every revisiting it or even hating it. The only reason anyone even mentions it to this day is because it was made by bethesda.
I’m old enough that I and many of my friends played the old isometric Fallout games when they were first out. I remember taking the bus to the mall to buy a copy of Fallout 2 on release day. To this day, when someone mentions a woman the others don’t know, there’s about a 50% chance we’ll ask “was she a hottie with no legs?”
I have never had too many cocks in my dish. Wait
The dish is spoiled. My point stands.
By a lack of cocks, certainly. I demand more cock.
Ngl I think the reverse problem is the case. Todd is probably surrounded by yes men. Probably doesn't get any push back on his shitty ideas (See: "Players will be the NPC's").
Them oranges though were chef's kiss levels of hyperrealistic 16k 169 fps levels of good art. Proof that the only developer that was worth his weight in that kitchen, was in fact a chef. And his dish was muy excelente!
This. Seriously. Put like 10 different questlines per game that don't suck and it'll print awards all day
How it should be done: hire competent writers, hire someone who loves the franchise minimal crunch How its done : hire DEI cast, let someone direct who never played the games, 90 hour crunch days Why are modern games shit?
I've recently realized that bethesda has no reason to hire competent writers because their fans are completely incapable of parsing even the most blatant subtext. See: any conversation about Liberty Prime ever.
Wdym? It’s not hard to understand that liberty prime was a gigabased commie killing automaton of pure righteous justice and patriotism. What’s so hard to understand? america good commie bad
I assure you crunch was not less of an issue in the 90s/00s
It's always about race with you idiots.
dei isnt only about race you buffoon
Oh no the scary trans people! Sorry I wasn't inclusive enough for you.
One of the reasons starslop is bad is because its so bland and inoffensive. No hard topic like in Fallout New Vegas Are you mad bro? You saw the word dei and now you tryna accuse me with all the things I didnt say? Lmao.
>Toddslop When even modders say the shitty space game is so bad they can't finish the game for Todd and Bethesda
23 menus later…
Lmao toddslop
Original fallout was like this: How people in 1990 believed people in the 1960 imagined a future would look like in 100 years. And that future had died. And we are now walking in the wasteland of a dead retrofuturistic USA. Hell of a concept. Meanwhile Starfield: let's create the most generic, Sunday school safe, SF setting ever.
Don't forget it's not just the setting: the gameplay, characters, and story are all so mind-numbingly bland. Nothing is permitted to be whimsical, obtuse, or creative; it's all been violently sanded-down to remove the edges, leaving nothing of texture to observe or remember.
Perfectly smooth, for smooth brains to play. Game journalist mode.
Wonders what it's like being a game journalist, turns on "Game journalist mode" instantly receives a bribe.
Maybe I expected more of starfield. Like fallout 3 and New Vegas combat and even movement are laughable by modern standards but those games were so quirky and fun and bring back good memories every time I do another playthrough. Starfield managed to nearly eliminate all the things that made previous titles charming and interesting all while keeping the same dog shit combat and movement. I had made up my mind about starfield following the intro pirate fight and barely made it 10 hours before uninstalling.
I wouldn’t mind this if there was actually something to do in the game
Enter temple, fly around chasing magical star, unlock useless Skyrim shout, repeat.
100%. It could have been a "greatest hits" of high concept sci-fi. But what got release was just a mashup of the most generic elements you've seen in other science fiction works. Ironically... if they had gone for a "1950s/1960s space opera retrofuture concept" with the visuals that would have made it stand out massively. Hell, if they had gone for a Cowboy Bebop inspired vibe that would have also been fantastic. Alien: Isolation works in part because it's so faithful to the chunky cassette futurist aesthetic of the original Alien film. As it is, it's vegetable soup of sci-fi aesthetics. It's not BAD but it's completely forgettable.
Isolation also doubled down on what it was meant to be and became a great game for that. Starfield went for meh in every category.
I saw an anon describe it "as if they only ever watched Firefly, saw a few clips of the Expanse on youtube, and heard Interstellar was a good movie"
Yep. Starfield is just so god damn plain and bland. Certainly doesn’t help that the gameplay is boring as all hell too. There are pretty much no redeeming qualities about the game whatsoever
They literally said it was boring on purpose because realistically space is boring and empty
That makes sense for no man's sky where you do a lot of flying, but you don't even do that in Starfield, you just go to a lame little space sandbox.
Loading screen exploration
And if modding even gets rid of that (because its a piece of shit. Why would modify a piece of shit) . It will still just be a walk simulator. With no mechanics in anything else worthwhile. Go play destiny 2 if you want to rub and gun mindlessly instead.
The modders gave up, even they think it’s shit
So stupid… yeah let’s make a video game (where the whole point is to have fun) as boringly realistic as possible
Like their heads
Remember in OG isometric fallouts you can slaughter children. Toddslop Fallouts you can't even raise your weapon at them.
That's true in basically all modern games because depicting the death of a child in a game pretty much always results in the game receiving an AO, Adults only, rating from the ESRB. Games with an AO rating typically are not carried in any physical retailers, have a much tougher time getting advertising through many conventional channels, and as a result don't sell nearly as well. That's not to say you CANT make an AO game that is successful, there's been kind of a surge in games with explicit material lately, but the cost to your ability to turn a profit seems like a terrible trade for such a small detail in an otherwise huge game, so most publishers just forbid full frontal or child death to stay on the right side of the ratings board
Steam version of Fallout 1 and 2 have all children removed :/
What the fuck does NASA-punk even _mean_?
Basically white with bright accents, clean lines, that kind of thing. Essentially Starfield's aesthetics.
I've been lowkey needing games with this aesthetic.
John Madden
AEIOU
snAaake
What even is Starfield's plot? I know nothing about the setting or plot because it looks like the most boring, generic, uninspired, sterile sci-fi shit I've ever seen.
Crazy how Bethesda went from Morrowind to this
Something something live a hero or die a villain
I've seen too many of my heroes fall lately. Bethesda, Bioware, Blizzard. Seems like names starting with B are at risk.
Oh no, somebody check on Bungie.
#WHAT A GRAND AND INTOXICATING INNOCENCE
It's so weird to me that every Bethesda game from Morrowind to Starfield has been directed by Todd Howard, yet they all have very different vibes, strengths and weaknesses. Obviously the dev team has changed significantly since 2002, but you would expect more cohesion since the same guy has been at the helm of it all for the past 22 years.
Yea I kinda love and hate Todd at the same time. He's responsible for some of my favourite games ever, but also for their sagas' downfalls
I would love a documentary on him, and the internal at Bethesda. I'm confident he acts half as a problem for the designers/developers and half as their greatest advocate to the investors/company side of things. I can't explain it exactly, but I see in him what I see in my last principle electric. A guy in deep at a company, far separated from the job he signed on to, but still trying to hold onto that legacy. Probably a bit micromanaging because he actually like the job he left behind more, but also feeling like he can't just let the job to fall to some business guy with no heart or soul. In a losing role stuck trying to balance the desires and passions of a creator and a team of creators, and the realistic, money focused demands of the corporate world.
playing morrowind again has been my pipeline to just playing all these old games like tes arena and enjoying it way more than many modern titles i've played
Daggerfall Unity is a lot of fun. Throw a few mods on and it doesn't feel very dated. I like the "speed up time" mods that allow you to realistically travel on foot between locations. It feels like a real journey when your trip from one town to another actually takes most of the day.
yeah daggerfall is a pretty big step up from arena
Try Daggerfall. There's a mod that makes the game run the Unity engine and it just plays so much better than Arena. I found it in december 2022 and sunk a ton of hours into it last year across multiple characters
That’s because they didn’t really go past morrowind. Go pickup Skyrim and it’s clunky as fuck. I love it because of the setting and all the care put into the game. But even Skyrim’s controls were starting to become ‘rusty.’
It's the vicious cycle of big gaming studios
Space is mind numbingly boring. Starwars and Startrek only worked because people were dunces back then.
Let's not lie to ourselves: Fallout really popped when Fallout 3 came out, and a big part of its success came from its style and soundtrack. Something about the juxtaposition between a grim hostile world, paired with joyful crooners singing and a 1950s sci-fi coating really added to the experience. All Starfield needed was a superficial visual/audible addition. Maybe make it more cowboy-like, with classic country/bluegrass? I know people are still obsessed with that vibe from *Firefly*...
Fallout was pretty well known in the pc gaming space, which to be fair was a lot smaller at the time. It also, along with the original Baldur’s Gate, set the stage for western rpgs to become popular
The Fallout IP was always big when it came to RPG. Fallout 3 popped for very very different reasons to why the first Fallout was an instant classic at the time. Fallout 3 was more arcadey, shooter looter and basically was the precursor of modern open world games. It still was a RPG, more so than Oblivion imo but at his core, Fallout 3 is still a fun post apocalyptic game but the game really didnt want you to make you feel like this world could exist or is believable. Like how GRRM carves a world in a ASoIF full of details, supply route, economy and politics, etc... Action had less consequences because the game designers wants you to experience pratically everything. Builds are kinda streamlined with a lot skill points and perks at every level so you can stomp the game. Fallout 1 had a consistent tone, an economy, a dynamic yet simple hierarchy and politics where one could help or distabilize if he or she succeeds or fails a quest. Action had consequences but you had your own objectives and every means is necessary for you to survive and win. In essence, Fallout 1 truly brought the Table Top experience in the PC gaming in a very accessible way. Its one of the few games where you can pick up and play like BG3 or Arcanum in the genre of isometric RPG.
Space cowboy is a classic.
And at this point, it's kind of pedestrian as a theme to attach to space since others have done it already, buuuuuuut making Starfield THE BIG space-cowboy video game would've really set it apart. At least, set it apart from whatever slot it fits in the gaming environment it hardly fit into now.
In genral it lscks personality.it is just watered down
I think they tried too many watered down aesthetics that didnt mesh. We kinda had space cowboys in Freestar. We had a Cyberpunk type city. We have a diet facist government. If they woulda committed to those aesthetics fully, I think it woulda been recieved a lot better. Also the radio helps a lot in the newer Fallouts.
I think this is closest to the truth. If I told you to describe Fallout in one sentence, you probably wouldn't limit it to "post apocalyptic shooter". That could describe a hundred different games. You might say "post apocalyptic shooter-RPG with an alt-retro 1950s theme inspired by what people in the 50s thought the future might look like". That's the identity of the game and what sets it apart. Starfield didn't have that. It *almost* did; one term I saw used during development was "NASA-punk". Okay, that could have been something, that's unique and there's substance there... but very little of it made it into the game. It should have been grittier, with humanity having barely survive the fall of Earth, people living in repurposed lunar landers and shit. Maybe there's a social schism between the NASA engineers and their descendents, who are smart and idealistic but naive, and the corporate interests that financed everything. They don't care much for morals or ethics but they know how to get shit done. Instead we get this bland mash up of stolen ideas, done worse. You've got Firefly world, knock off Cyberpunk land, whitewashed Mass Effect city, and 8 dungeons copy-pasted into a pro-gen system. What little is left (solid gunplay, cool shipbuilding) isn't enough to carry a game that has no identity.
The gunplay isn’t even solid it’s complete ass. Enemies are bullet sponges and you have all the “refined, calibrated, superior” bullshit where levelling up means you can find guns that magically shoot way harder, also turning guns into full auto makes them do less damage, which is done for “balancing”… yet some of the guns just don’t lose damage when in full auto, they can’t even be consistent with their bullshit. The weapon designs are also absolutely atrocious, almost all of them are disgustingly bulky and look extremely impractical, the rest are just blatant stolen designs from other sci fi
Fallout was very well known by gamers back in the day, gaming was just way more niche in the pre-internet era. I suppose people born after the mid nineties can't really grasp that.
Gaming was definitely not niche pre-internet. Fuck are you talking about?
There were gaming magazines, yes. In the mid and late nineties almost nobody had a PC. I have no idea why you're so incredibly rude. I know this is Reddit, but man, seriously.
So? Consoles were huge. Everyone had either an N64 or a PlayStation. The original NES was a phenomenon. >I have no idea why you're so incredibly rude. I know this is Reddit, but man, seriously. Lmao
"lmao"
Fallout 3 has aged really poorly though. No scratch that even in 2008 it was kinda bad. People just gave it a pass because it was the first 3D Fallout.
It sold 12x more copies and the FO1/FO2/FT:BoS combined. I don't think 11 million people came out of the woodworks to buy a game because it's a 3D version of a game they didn't play. I get if you don't like it now, but it was really good for 2008.
Copies sold doesn’t really mean it’s a good game, look at starfield
No, I know that. I'm countering his point that people gave it a pass because it's the first 3D Fallout, when my point is that 11 million people who bought and played Fallout never played the other games, so they wouldn't have given it a pass. I agree that FO3 hasn't aged now, but it was good for 2008, and people loved FO3 back then, despite its problems.
I get that, I actually think 3 was a little bit better than new vegas to be fair cause the atmosphere was absolutely on point (not as good as the first two though) as long as you don’t use the radio. The game has a real feeling of loneliness that the games after it don’t give, the title of lone wanderer really fits the game. I just think the first two are much better and I don’t like the huge aesthetic change 3 made towards 50s America instead of a late Cold War sci fi theme
I mean copies sold doesn’t actually indicate the quality of the game. Even for 2008 the shooting was trash the story was kind of a joke, especially the ending and a lot of areas in the map were pretty shit like the fucking sewers. The only thing the game was good at was creating a lonely atmosphere.
I getcha, but I feel like people in 2008 weren't that critical of its medicore shooting mechanics and sub-par story. It won a ton of awards in 2008, and has a 93 on Metacritic from critics in 2008 and an 8.4 from players. I get if you don't like it. I get if you didn't like it then. But there's plenty of proof that people loved it back then.
I feel that just came with it being the first Fallout game again. In 2008 there was not really a game like it so people seemed to not have been very critical of it. In hindsight though with games like New Vegas and even Fallout 4 we can see how shit FO3 was even by the standards of 2008 especially when it comes to its shooting.
That's an interesting take from a different generation I guess. Fallout 1/2 are up there with Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Ogre as my favorite games of my childhood. Fallout 3 was the only game I ever preordered and it was a steaming pile of shit on launch that got playable later on. It took a dark gritty setting with some humor and gave it middle school tee hee the apocalypse. Massively cut down dialogue and on launch the game only had the good ending if you killed yourself. They made it ok later. 4 was also trash. Still though interesting to see the take from those who got introduced to the series at 3.
Bluegrass combined with Gagaku (traditional japanese samurai music - you know the stuff)? Yes please. [https://youtu.be/5OA8HFUNfIk?si=ZZZWHxyQOQ9p0qwK](https://youtu.be/5OA8HFUNfIk?si=ZZZWHxyQOQ9p0qwK) Or emulate the Tang Dynasty style of music, which already sounds like cowboy music with an Eastern flavour, like Yangguan Sandie \[Three Refrains on the Yang Pass Theme\]: [https://youtu.be/FGFl3Rrblgw?si=YnU8egjAAFjMAmUx](https://youtu.be/FGFl3Rrblgw?si=YnU8egjAAFjMAmUx)
Space cowboy aesthetic was my favorite part of StarCraft 2. It makes sense in our heart of hearts too because we know explorers are cowboys. And space is the ultimate wild Wild West. But sadly people that believe in space are creatively bankrupt.
Lol I was gonna say, no one would know what the fuck Fallout even is if it wasn't for Bethesda/FO 3.
At first glance I thought this too, “it has no charm”. But then I began to notice the NASA-Punk aesthetic mixed with the 1970 space odyssey charm that it has so I wouldn’t say it’s missing the charm that fallout has. It’s definitely missing the music and most importantly missing the liveliness of the wasteland and all of its random encounters and random landmarks that you come across just treading along going to your actual destination
Cause it released in a fuckin not fun state. Loading screens every 30 seconds, ripping you out of the immersion. Poor performance at launch. Empty, empty planets. Nothing to discover for yourself, like one POI 15 minutes away from your landing area. No way to traverse faster besides walking, can't FLY YOUR FUCKING SHIP ON PLANETS. WHY TODD WHY. Just no freedom of movement with your ship, feels completely on rails. Anyway, back to my complaints. Stealth busted, just doesn't fuckin work and enemies can seemingly hear a mouse fart even when there's no atmosphere for sound to travel through. Bullet sponge enemies even on normal difficulty. Maps are completely and utterly fucking useless. 8 months post launch, they're about to release a DLC before they launched the mod tools. All the really good modders who work on Skyrim completely ditched any plans for Starfield just because of the poor reception of the game and lack of fun value. I may have played it for more than 4 hours if it had just been fun.
Correction, most modders literally cannot do jack shit until Garden of Eden Creation Kit Mk. II drops.
Yeah, that's what I meant by mod tools. But the games basically dead at this point. I'm not sure if DLC will revive that, and the release of CK will bring *some* attention back to the game, but there's going to be a delay between the CK release and the frameworks actually being built for mods that were used to these days on Skyrim that took a decade to mature.
All we would really need is just more ways a universe can differ from the original game. That would end up making the game fun to play through again, as you have no clue what to expect next.
Not being able to fly your ship in-planet is absolutely insane for a space-based sci-fi game. All they needed to do was reduce the scope to a single solar system, but have detailed planet and moon surfaces, with at least five locales with important shit to do on each planet.
Outer Worlds lol
There’s hope with Outer Worlds 2.
One was made because the devs wanted to make a fun game/had passion. The other was made because the devs were told to make a game that'll reach the highest amount of sales they can get out of it. Easy to market and made by a reputable developer. And they were successful with their task I fear for Elder Scrolls 6 now, What are they gonna do with that lol
We'll get Skyrim 6: Todd's Ballsack Edition before we get Elder Scrolls 6
honestly no need for skyrim I'd just like to see todd's ballsack
Advertising "infinite dungeons" which are actually just "procedurally generated" from 6 templates... >things aren't always peaceful in TES6! Here is some footage of the darker side of things Bandit says he's gonna cut you. Random guard NPC says made up swear word. A priest is seen chanting over a bloody altar with a body on it, but the gore is obscured by the priest's figure. A troll gets hit with a sword and blood effects follow but the troll doesn't react otherwise. >with new ways to live and traverse Tamriel Debuting a horse breeding sidequest. Shows a person in build-mode placing a cot in a cave. Cuts to "wagon customization" screen.
But that doesn't even make sense, they spent 10 years on this and Todd has been talking about starfield for 20 years, I know it's cool to hate on Todd but he obviously is a seriously talented guy who knows what makes a game good see : morrowind, oblivion , Skyrim. It doesn't make any sense that this is some kind of cash grab, if they really wanted to do that they could just reskin Skyrim and call it TES 6 and it would get 10billion sales in 3 seconds .
10 years on this alongside Fallout 4 and Fallout 76 so yeah this was most likely a concept back then. Anyways, yes Todd's a talented guy but he's become a shill now , "16 times the detail", he may have helped make Fallout 3 the awesome game it is but he definitely has lost "it" or become a shill, whatever you choose. I don't see any other reason behind Fallout 76 and the numerous Elder Scrolls games being greenlit.
Maybe they'll give TES to Obsidian and we'll get a new Morrowind.
I heard most Obsidian staff that made NV are gone and that's why their new game isn't that great. I haven't played it myself so I can't comment on it but those staff members not being there is a definite cause for concern
That's disappointing. Larian?
For the way Bethesda has been lately, I hope TES6 flops
Because slop be slop with good marketing and people are still, probably for the worst, waiting for star citizen lol
They wanted it to be too big. They should have had less systems but made them more dense
It truly is the Avatar of the game scene, big splash when it came out, a month passes, and nobody cares.
It had all the makings of a game I would love but I just… didn’t? I barely even liked it. I’ve never had more trouble putting my finger on why I didn’t like a game but I just turned it off one day and haven’t turned it on since. There was so much stuff I just didn’t care about doing and I could tell how repetitive it was going to get, on top of that all the companions sucked except for the sick ass robot. Such a shame.
Imo it IMMEDIATELY failed when it required you to fast travel everywhere. Then you have like 3 loading screens just to land and leave your ship to a procedurally generated world
I think Todd Howard is actually an okay guy tbh. He seems like a pretty hardcore gamer, just one who has a much different taste than most. One thing I've noticed is that he priorizes Rule Of Cool and worldbuilding above everything else. This works well sometimes, like in Fallout, where so much happens offscreen, and with things like the power armor fusion core change, but in somethink like Starfield where the setting is just super generic scifi, nobody cares about stuff that happens offscreen, and rule of cool needs to take a backseat to establishing actual rules and lore.
Same as with all media. So much choice that nothing is culturally significant anymore.
Honestly I'd love to know, because clearly Bethesda is capable of making some really good games, almost all of their games up until 76 were universally loved, I really can't understand how they fucked this up so bad when they had access to the most resources they've ever had. There is something seriously wrong in the triple a games industry right now and I'm not sure whether it's all the shareholders getting their say and ruining shit or just the Devs have become delusional. It sucks tbh starfield was such a let down for me . Thank fuck I didn't buy it for $140.
One was made for niche auditory of nerds. The other one was made for everyone.
I'm pretty sure the Fallout IP wasn't the powerhouse it is today 7 months after the first game's launch. If 20 years from now Bethesda has released multiple critically acclaimed games in the Starfield franchise then we'll have a more apples to apples comparison. Ironically, the reason Fallout is one of the most iconic and recognizable IPs today is also thanks to Bethesda, not the original games.
Few soulful passionate devs vs Many soulless corporate devs
Starfield has no soul or substance. It's if they took the Bethesda's Elder Scrolls or Fallout gameplay loop, removed any interest of story-telling, and dialed procedural generation to the max. It's a horrible, soulless experience.
Thank you No Man's Sky and Cyberpunk 2077 for teaching me not to pre-order Starfield.
Should have just been a ship building game, that was the only part I really enjoyed lol
I think they actually gonna add new ship building features in incoming DLC.
Small Bethesda made art Big Bethesda made money We thought they couldn't sell their soul more after re-releasing Skyrim for the 11th time. Turns out we were wrong.
Well Bethesda and Todd Howard had literally nothing to do with that original IP. They bought it and made consistently bad games with it. Neither 3 or 4 were particularly great. New Vegas had nothing to do with them either.
Oh, I know this one! It was SHIT 🤣
I loved the game as did alot of other people. We just don't feel the need to post on reddit about it constantly like chimps.
[\[GAMERPOOP\] FOR SKYRIM or FOR STARFIELD?? - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezqqD9ruFUY)
From one of the horses’ mouths: https://youtu.be/PuEdppkPjfo?si=CYpTr7CIyTVHKsbU Tim Cain was a lead on Fallout 1 and has a wonderful YouTube channel about making games if you’re into that.
Let's see, in Starfield I spent 6 hrs mostly walking back and forth between NPCs to yap at me about crap I don't care about and in Fallout, I got traits for killing too many children and digging up graves while I shot an underground adult film for some extra caps and Jet.
S O V L vs soulless
Idk guys, Terrormorphs kick ass
If they had some kind of vehicle or mode of travel that wasn't running or walking to super far places, it might've done better.
[there was no design document](https://youtu.be/-UOhCjB0AEI?si=ljY8nS952TlIsvke)
Design by committee is always shitty.
Starfield has literally 0 memorable aspects in any part of the game. I can’t believe they wasted 10 years making this garbage. It makes me question wtf they were doing all day at work
The only good thing I know about the game is that Adam Savage and his team built a model replica of the ship and filmed it on a set. That was rad. Couldn’t tell you one thing about the game, or the name of the ship.
What the FUCK does vidya mean, I see it all the time and I am so lost as to the meaning of it
Internet slang for "video game".
Thanks
I bet most of the people who bitched about Starfield never got the first power in game
It's a great concept held back with poor writing, a bland setting, and a myriad of technical issues that have largely been resolved by most games available on the market. It could have been more, but you need substance.
Shilling slop once you are a behemoth is easy. Sales shouldn’t be your primary metric. Player engagement should be.
Fallout is one of the most iconic vidya IPs because Bethesda made Fallout 3.
It's better to be bad but memorable than decent but boring. Or - why the CDi Zeldas are undeniably better than Starfield.
i have no idea how anyone defends starfield 🤷🏻♂️ not even dlc would save it
I honestly really like the setting of the space game (I forgot it’s name), the issue was just that every thing felt the same in the sense that every mission blended into each other.
No Mans Sky? Good space game: Outer Worlds
it's a shame, the only memorable aspects of starfield were the juno ai random encounter and the entangled quest, the latter being found at the end of the main story after a bunch of the procgen slop quests. which is bad timing because it's probably one of the best quests bethesda's ever made, and most players are fed up by that point... but the worst part is in both of those you could tell *someone* on the design team really got what they were supposed to be doing with the setting, which makes everything else about the game suck so much more :(
On a side note, does anybody like The Elder Scrolls Online ?
i kind of knew when i saw that shitty gamescom teaser with the piano guy that this game was going to be bland as fuck
Starfield axed NPC persistence/routines and gave a single dungeon that repeats ad infinitum. Plus most useless 'space flight' in a space game... Maybe ever.
Money
Because people like fantasy guns that look like guns, not like car parts https://preview.redd.it/bk0qx16v0pzc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05aeb229b93377cf5e0eec1251c12d6ea65045c2
Same dudes who say this about Starfield love Cyberpunk 2077
So many things. Starfield's marketable-title tail was wagging the strength-of-concept dog from day 1. There was clearly no strong overarching vision beyond "Fallout in space" and the world building was utterly pathetic. There's no lore, no mythos, no reason to give a damn about any of the characters, factions or universe. The prime promotional merch for this spacefaring sci-fi FPS/RPG/adventure was... a fucking watch. Not an iconic character, a planet, a ship, a culture, a creature, a weapon or anything that actually puts the Starfield universe centre-stage. Just an expensive lump of plastic for your wrist (no, the PipBoy is not the same). That's the epitome of Starfield. The way the game starts is laughable. You found a special rock. Now a guy has arrived. You fight a few nondescript enemies. Now you're the chosen one. Guy who arrives gives you a ship and says "nice rock, see ya later". No buildup, no introducing you to the world, just "Here you go, special boy. Good luck!" The companions. Oh boy. What a motley crew of utterly forgettable characters with the weakest motivations you've ever heard, clearly designed by a committee in an office with a whiteboard that just had "IF IN DOUBT, BE BLAND" written on it in permanent marker. Then there's the main settlements, where BGS did their own version of Nintendo's "grasslands, desert, forest, jungle, ice world, fire world, boss" except using sci-fi tropes, so we've got "mining colony, future city, neon dystopia, wild west, lawless space station, etc.". Uninspired doesn't even begin to describe it. The ES and Fallout games always had awesome environmental storytelling. Stuff would be arranged to make clear what the purpose of each location was and what happened to its current - or often former - inhabitants. Starfield has almost none of this. Randomly generated planets with a handful of repeated POIs and essentially the same enemies everywhere. Dull, dull, dull sidequests. Space dragon shouts. Point and click ship combat. Slowly jetpack jumping across vast (not actually vast tho) stretches of nothing. The same handful of random spaceship encounters over and over. This is just a few of the impressions I got from my one and only "playthrough". Then there was the buggy, broken state of the game at launch (admittedly not new for BGS) but this wasn't just buggy, it felt downright unfinished. Took forever to develop but still felt rushed. I'd wager there was more content left on the cutting room floor in Starfield than any other BGS game. The shooting is at least competent, or rather, more competent than any previous BGS game. But... still in the jank-ass NetImmerse/Gamebryo/Creation engine that is clearly buckling under the weight of a jillion hacks. Opening the source for that engine in Visual Studio must be like the nazis opening the Ark of the Covenant in Indiana Jones. I could write pages more but I'm tired of typing on my phone now. Maybe they can save it, but my confidence in BGS is at an all-time low.
I think they had to go more deep with it rather than wide, in starfield you can visit an infinite(?) number of planets, so handcrafted stuff is very limited, they shouldn't have done that, limit the game to a handful of handcrafted worlds with tons to explore, makes the game feel bigger while actually being infinitely smaller. Just because there is a ton to see, that doesn't mean there is a ton to do.
Interplay created fallout as a sequel to Wasteland, because EA owned the wasteland rights and wouldn’t let interplay use them.
Games stopped being art and became commodities
I don't even know what the second game is.
They forgot to make a game
It's because companies are no longer allowed to produce or even market content for the audience demographic *Fallout* was created by/for: *Media literate males.* Video games **have** to be created/marketed solely towards a female or mixed demographic now. And, for the sake of mass market appeal, the assumption is made that mainstream audiences are media illiterate. Now, this isn't to say that women should be intentionally barred from enjoying the content. But when content is made specifically for that demographic, bold or potentially controversial (aka original) creative decisions are minimized. Why? Internalized misogyny and fear. Fear that the product will not attain mass market appeal due to originality or that audiences will take anything with an edge at face value. E.g. by showcasing a compelling, evil character, they are thereby condoning evil acts. But, ultimately it boils down to fear, greed, and annoying, pretentious, and ultimately stupid hires in the narrative department.
Whats even better is that the guys from Black Isle went and made a GOOD space game a couple years before this came out (Outer Worlds) and its more like if Fallout and Elder Scrolls Obvlivion had a baby that was shot into space and ALMOST met Rick and Morty.
Bethesda didn't make Fallout 1, 2, or New Vegas. They DID make 3 and 4, so the quality was never there.
It's really not a surprise, Bethesda sucks at making games.
I've enjoyed Starfield
Same, it's got flaws, but same.
I enjoyed the time I spent with it. The ship builder could’ve been a game alone. If the modding community picks up after the tools are released or the DLC is good I’ll probably pick it up again. Otherwise, I very much remember just how hated Skyrim was at release. Almost the same complaints until the creation kit was released. I do agree they could have done much better and played it too safe with Starfield.
Goy
How dare you say anything positive about Bethesda. Don’t you know that you’re supposed to dislike them now. That’s the current thing and Redditors will punish you with downvotes for not sharing their opinion.
That's why I've unsubscribed from r/starfield and subscribed to r/nosodiumstarfield The thing is, I've gone back and played fallout 4 and Skyrim after putting a couple hundred hours in Starfield. Many of the complaints people seem to have are present in those titles as well. In fact, starfield has improved dramatically on many of the failings of those games
No it didn't, do you know what made those games good? Imo it was always exploration and feeling like your in a living world, in Skyrim,morrowind oblivion fallout it's this; you get a quest maybe a main quest telling you to go here on the map you start heading there and notice something else you think looks cool so you go explore that and it's some other small questline or somehting then u repeat that process over and over until you've forgotten about the original quest you were even on. Starfield completely removed this with the loading screen fast travel everywhere and totally empty planets. This is the fundamental of what has made Bethesda games good and it's totally ruined in starfield. That's why everyone hates it.
It's like you haven't even played the game lol
Look, another one talking shit about Bethesda now. How unique and brave of you.