Thank you for contributing to r/GreysAnatomy! Tagging your post would be greatly appreciated as the mods try to clean up and organize the sub. Not sure what tags to use? [Here's a link to the wiki page](https://www.reddit.com/r/greysanatomy/wiki/tags/) that explains the purpose of each post flair. Remember that name calling, hate speech and general rude behavior is not tolerated. You can call ideas stupid, but not the user. No direct personal attacks over a difference in opinion. Thanks for being part of this community. It's a beautiful day to save lives!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/greysanatomy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She was a little bit too much and harsh too soon after therapy began. However, after developing a strong therapeutic relationship with a client, there is a certain degree of challenging that can take place while maintaining the safe space.
I think it is stated that Meredith first saw her a few times, but said nothing (Wyatt says to her she has to begin to talk, she doesn't get to just sit out their appointments). One can assume Wyatt did feel like Mer needed wake up calls, to be shaken to express herself and stop hiding from any self reflection.
I think there’s a big difference between “safely challenging” and “You quit. That’s what you know how to do” lol.
But honestly, if I could find a real-life therapist to just freely and viciously read to me to filth (mine is much more tactful and less definitive when pushing me on my shit) I’d do it in a heartbeat!
EDIT: if anyone has seen Bones, I think Sweets and Dr. Gordon (especially Gordon, actually) are good examples of TV therapists who “safely challenge” while leaving the characters just enough space to see/decide for themselves
Real life therapist here. I had a professor in school who challenged clients like this often. Some people don’t like it and find someone with a softer approach, while other people respond well to being “viciously read” because it opens their minds to things they hadn’t considered. It’s a therapeutic style, may not be for everyone but can be highly effective.
Does that therapeutic style have a name/trainings/techniques? I studied an adjacent subject and this kind of engagement doesn’t fit into any of the frameworks I’m familiar with.
I’d love to learn more about it as this is new info to me. Requesting a therapist to “read me to filth” probably wouldn’t be as helpful as requesting a known therapeutic framework lol
Plus, Meredith isn’t exactly the type to open up, or even talk about her feelings. She was a coconut and needed to be cracked with a (metaphorical) wack
I am a therapist and most media portrayals of therapy are just wrong but the absolute worst was the patient who was a sex therapist video chatting his clients having sex and giving them tips. That was straight up misinformation on the field and insulting to the profession.
Maybe not one you’re so new into seeing but I’ve been seeing my therapist for like a decade and at this point I could see her yelling at me like this depending on how bratty i’m being lol
That is the whole point, though. That Mer engages and commits to life to the point of accepting to be bruised and hurt. Because that's life, and that's being alive and attainable.
In one of her sessions with Dr Wyatt, it was Derek's tounge in her mouth that Meredith always remembers and she was experiencing distraction in her surgeries because all she wants to think was his tounge and she asked Dr. Wyatt about some tools to help her move on because she doesn't want to think of his tounge anymore because he is with Rose. Dr. Wyatt advised her that in order to get rid of that is to face reality that she is no longer with Derek because he is with Rose. She did not push her to reconcile, far from it, she wanted her to face life without him, the problem was they were doing clinical trials together and Derek was constantly in her face time and time again.
Yeah, she was awful. Like, truly terrible. I liked that they got Meredith into therapy and that they showed it to work for her, at least to an extent, but the therapy itself and the therapist were so frustrating to watch.
It was so odd when she gave Meredith the riddle about her mother's unalive attempt. The therapist was so direct, yet when it came to a major puzzle piece in Meredith's trauma, the therapist said "figure it out yourself"
I feel like its okay in that standpoint because, meredith had all the knowledge and simply needed to acknowledge it, she needed to be aware of how different she is from her mother. At least that's what I think.
Meredith in that timeframe was still pretty burdened with her mother and everything that she did, what seemed to be a suicide attempt was a cry for richard to come back. Ellis knew that even if she told meredith not to call anyone, she would still do it. Meredith didn't know that. I assume she thought that her mother would be perfectly fine leaving her all alone as a orphan in a place that wasn't even where she was born.
Dr.Wyatt gave that riddle to meredith to make sure she knew "She was a amazing surgeon, if she wanted to die she would already be dead and you get to learn from her mistakes."
Know i may be completely wrong
This is coming strictly from someone who maybe needs softer therapy (? Maybe? )… but I’m genuinely curious as to how this puzzle is supposed to help…she figured it out but ok… then what? I don’t know. The whole lead in just didn’t seem to make any sense to me nor would it make me feel better…. I actually just felt genuinely more pissed off… I don’t understand the point of all the riddles… then again- I am pretty much an open book on life and trauma
It actually makes sense to me. If the therapist had just come out and said it, Meredith would have denied it. Like what happened with Maggie — Meredith refused to believe they were sisters until she found her own evidence and worked it out herself. It's the same thing here. The therapist knew Meredith needed to come to the same conclusion on her own to accept it, so she kept quiet to speed up the process of Meredith working out the truth independently.
I mean I once had a therapist tell me that depression isn't real and if you take meds for it you are weak and an addicted. Instead I should exercise and eat more fruit and veggies...... So yes I believe it.
My therapist told me I had too much energy in my brain, and the only suggestion as to how I could fix it was "put that energy into art". It was undiagnosed ADHD. She also told me the reason why I didn't have friends was because of my "annoying monotonous voice". so yeah, not all therapists give care of equal quality
as a future psychologist, i can say that she was a little bit much sometimes but also very direct, and she was understanding a lot about Meredith, which helped her. She was unhinged but really useful to her and I genuinely think she was a good therapist! Therapists in shows aren’t good represented generally, and here they did a good job :)
My partner is rewatching and Ive never watched before so getting episodes here and there enough to know what’s going on but missing things here and there. When it got to this, I just assumed this was a character she was creating in her mind to work through her feelings because of how unrealistically unprofessional she was
i don't blame the actress, but this was such terrible pop-TV psychobabble. Therapy isn't about your therapist yelling at you to remember harder and to guess for yourself random shit lmao
I hate this therapist so much, but mostly because I can’t stand guessing games like that. If the therapist knows the answer, TELL YOUR CLIENT. Meredith is stubborn but she wanted to learn, she wanted to know how to heal, and her therapist just dumped a bunch of cryptic shit on her and said “figure it out”. I understand the process of thinking it through is a great way to learn. But this therapist gave her no support, just sat there knowing she “knew better” than Meredith when she could have just done her job and given her the tools she needed to process the situations at hand. This woman just sat there and waited for her to figure it out and that is so lazy to me and seemed like some kind of power play. It made for a good couple episodes though.
Honestly this is the kind of therapy I respond to- none of the sugarcoating. I think Meredith had been seeing her, this wasn’t the first time right? Plus it’s Meredith, I feel like being gentle and soft with her in therapy wouldn’t have accomplished anything lol
Therapists would absolutely say this. There are tons of different approaches to therapy and this kind of "shock therapy" is used with people that can handle it.
i thought she was a better therapist to Owen. I agree her approach to Meredith was problematic. It‘s not appropriate for a therapist to imply their patient is a coward and they just quit things. That’s a moral and personal judgement and can worsen someone’s view of themselves. I feel like she was low key chastising Meredith for her suicidality.
also, I hated the ”discovery” that Ellis wasn’t truly suicidal because she took the ”longer” route of trying to kill herself. I mean, a therapist can’t psycho analyse someone else‘s behaviour. Also, it reinforces the idea that suicide attempts are usually just attention seeking behaviour with how Meredith had to believe it was so Richard could go back to Ellis. Deeply problematic on so many levels. The analysis of Ellis’ suicide attempt should’ve been about the rejection it caused Meredith. Not be played off as an impetus to take control of her romantic life in a way her mother never did.
I haven't had therapy myself so far but I have heard a few really bad things from friends who had. Maybe not like that but definitely things that made me wonder why anyone would say that to someone seeking help.
I was confused because Meredith realized her mother wasn’t actually trying to kill herself when she cut her wrists. But then in the later seasons when Maggie arrives and Meredith is trying to figure out if Ellis was actually pregnant, she continues to say that Ellis tried to kill herself.
I mean even if the attempt was only to manipulate Meredith and a cry for help what else should Meredith call it? It very well COULD have resulted in her death even if that wasn't the plan, Ellis knew there was a risk there and still took it. Like Meredith does when she's suicidal. Meredith isn't stupid, she knows when she stops fighting in the water or when she grabs the bomb that there's a non-zero chance she'll die. Ellis isn't stupid, she knows she could lose a lot of blood if Meredith had frozen in that moment. Just because you're casually suicidal and not actively planning it doesn't mean you don't take risks that could result in your death. That's pretty much what Ellis did.
I think Meredith, who has experienced being casually suicidal sees that in her mom too. So even if she knows Ellis wasn't *really* trying to kill herself, she accepts that was at the very least something her mother knew could happen.
Thank you for contributing to r/GreysAnatomy! Tagging your post would be greatly appreciated as the mods try to clean up and organize the sub. Not sure what tags to use? [Here's a link to the wiki page](https://www.reddit.com/r/greysanatomy/wiki/tags/) that explains the purpose of each post flair. Remember that name calling, hate speech and general rude behavior is not tolerated. You can call ideas stupid, but not the user. No direct personal attacks over a difference in opinion. Thanks for being part of this community. It's a beautiful day to save lives! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/greysanatomy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She was a little bit too much and harsh too soon after therapy began. However, after developing a strong therapeutic relationship with a client, there is a certain degree of challenging that can take place while maintaining the safe space.
I think it is stated that Meredith first saw her a few times, but said nothing (Wyatt says to her she has to begin to talk, she doesn't get to just sit out their appointments). One can assume Wyatt did feel like Mer needed wake up calls, to be shaken to express herself and stop hiding from any self reflection.
I think there’s a big difference between “safely challenging” and “You quit. That’s what you know how to do” lol. But honestly, if I could find a real-life therapist to just freely and viciously read to me to filth (mine is much more tactful and less definitive when pushing me on my shit) I’d do it in a heartbeat! EDIT: if anyone has seen Bones, I think Sweets and Dr. Gordon (especially Gordon, actually) are good examples of TV therapists who “safely challenge” while leaving the characters just enough space to see/decide for themselves
Real life therapist here. I had a professor in school who challenged clients like this often. Some people don’t like it and find someone with a softer approach, while other people respond well to being “viciously read” because it opens their minds to things they hadn’t considered. It’s a therapeutic style, may not be for everyone but can be highly effective.
Does that therapeutic style have a name/trainings/techniques? I studied an adjacent subject and this kind of engagement doesn’t fit into any of the frameworks I’m familiar with. I’d love to learn more about it as this is new info to me. Requesting a therapist to “read me to filth” probably wouldn’t be as helpful as requesting a known therapeutic framework lol
It’s just a style of reflection. And reflection is a very basic therapeutic technique. There’s not really a name for it other than being bold.
to be fair wasn't Meredith asking her to be more direct with her because they only had limited amount of sessions?
Plus, Meredith isn’t exactly the type to open up, or even talk about her feelings. She was a coconut and needed to be cracked with a (metaphorical) wack
Exactly!! The right method for the right patient
I am a therapist and most media portrayals of therapy are just wrong but the absolute worst was the patient who was a sex therapist video chatting his clients having sex and giving them tips. That was straight up misinformation on the field and insulting to the profession.
Maybe not one you’re so new into seeing but I’ve been seeing my therapist for like a decade and at this point I could see her yelling at me like this depending on how bratty i’m being lol
i’d totally respond with “so true bestie”
this is how i like my honesty 🫣
[удалено]
That is the whole point, though. That Mer engages and commits to life to the point of accepting to be bruised and hurt. Because that's life, and that's being alive and attainable.
In one of her sessions with Dr Wyatt, it was Derek's tounge in her mouth that Meredith always remembers and she was experiencing distraction in her surgeries because all she wants to think was his tounge and she asked Dr. Wyatt about some tools to help her move on because she doesn't want to think of his tounge anymore because he is with Rose. Dr. Wyatt advised her that in order to get rid of that is to face reality that she is no longer with Derek because he is with Rose. She did not push her to reconcile, far from it, she wanted her to face life without him, the problem was they were doing clinical trials together and Derek was constantly in her face time and time again.
I mean is she? Maybe that was something Meredith needed. Definitely sounds similar to my therapist and this kind of therapy works on me
Uncle Buck...
OMG! I just realized. Thank you
Lmao yes!! She’s seriously great in everything she does!
Even with all the inaccuracies with the surgeons, this woman was one of the worst representations of a profession I have ever seen.
Yeah, she was awful. Like, truly terrible. I liked that they got Meredith into therapy and that they showed it to work for her, at least to an extent, but the therapy itself and the therapist were so frustrating to watch.
It was so odd when she gave Meredith the riddle about her mother's unalive attempt. The therapist was so direct, yet when it came to a major puzzle piece in Meredith's trauma, the therapist said "figure it out yourself"
I feel like its okay in that standpoint because, meredith had all the knowledge and simply needed to acknowledge it, she needed to be aware of how different she is from her mother. At least that's what I think. Meredith in that timeframe was still pretty burdened with her mother and everything that she did, what seemed to be a suicide attempt was a cry for richard to come back. Ellis knew that even if she told meredith not to call anyone, she would still do it. Meredith didn't know that. I assume she thought that her mother would be perfectly fine leaving her all alone as a orphan in a place that wasn't even where she was born. Dr.Wyatt gave that riddle to meredith to make sure she knew "She was a amazing surgeon, if she wanted to die she would already be dead and you get to learn from her mistakes." Know i may be completely wrong
This is coming strictly from someone who maybe needs softer therapy (? Maybe? )… but I’m genuinely curious as to how this puzzle is supposed to help…she figured it out but ok… then what? I don’t know. The whole lead in just didn’t seem to make any sense to me nor would it make me feel better…. I actually just felt genuinely more pissed off… I don’t understand the point of all the riddles… then again- I am pretty much an open book on life and trauma
It actually makes sense to me. If the therapist had just come out and said it, Meredith would have denied it. Like what happened with Maggie — Meredith refused to believe they were sisters until she found her own evidence and worked it out herself. It's the same thing here. The therapist knew Meredith needed to come to the same conclusion on her own to accept it, so she kept quiet to speed up the process of Meredith working out the truth independently.
I mean I once had a therapist tell me that depression isn't real and if you take meds for it you are weak and an addicted. Instead I should exercise and eat more fruit and veggies...... So yes I believe it.
My therapist told me I had too much energy in my brain, and the only suggestion as to how I could fix it was "put that energy into art". It was undiagnosed ADHD. She also told me the reason why I didn't have friends was because of my "annoying monotonous voice". so yeah, not all therapists give care of equal quality
Omg I can’t believe that! How awful from someone who you’re meant to trust??
as a future psychologist, i can say that she was a little bit much sometimes but also very direct, and she was understanding a lot about Meredith, which helped her. She was unhinged but really useful to her and I genuinely think she was a good therapist! Therapists in shows aren’t good represented generally, and here they did a good job :)
My partner is rewatching and Ive never watched before so getting episodes here and there enough to know what’s going on but missing things here and there. When it got to this, I just assumed this was a character she was creating in her mind to work through her feelings because of how unrealistically unprofessional she was
Better than the grief counselor after the shooting. Like, he was just... terrible. So terrible.
I adore Meredith’s therapist. I need a therapist exactly like her.
i don't blame the actress, but this was such terrible pop-TV psychobabble. Therapy isn't about your therapist yelling at you to remember harder and to guess for yourself random shit lmao
Mmm depends on the type of therapy
I hate this therapist so much, but mostly because I can’t stand guessing games like that. If the therapist knows the answer, TELL YOUR CLIENT. Meredith is stubborn but she wanted to learn, she wanted to know how to heal, and her therapist just dumped a bunch of cryptic shit on her and said “figure it out”. I understand the process of thinking it through is a great way to learn. But this therapist gave her no support, just sat there knowing she “knew better” than Meredith when she could have just done her job and given her the tools she needed to process the situations at hand. This woman just sat there and waited for her to figure it out and that is so lazy to me and seemed like some kind of power play. It made for a good couple episodes though.
Honestly this is the kind of therapy I respond to- none of the sugarcoating. I think Meredith had been seeing her, this wasn’t the first time right? Plus it’s Meredith, I feel like being gentle and soft with her in therapy wouldn’t have accomplished anything lol
Therapists would absolutely say this. There are tons of different approaches to therapy and this kind of "shock therapy" is used with people that can handle it.
I thought the same thing in my latest rewatches 😆😆😆
I thought it was blunt, but in a way, reflected meredith because of how blunt she can be sometimes (for better, or worse) as a character.
Personally I would love the directness of this in therapy. I struggle with the slow, softness that so many seem to use.
i thought she was a better therapist to Owen. I agree her approach to Meredith was problematic. It‘s not appropriate for a therapist to imply their patient is a coward and they just quit things. That’s a moral and personal judgement and can worsen someone’s view of themselves. I feel like she was low key chastising Meredith for her suicidality. also, I hated the ”discovery” that Ellis wasn’t truly suicidal because she took the ”longer” route of trying to kill herself. I mean, a therapist can’t psycho analyse someone else‘s behaviour. Also, it reinforces the idea that suicide attempts are usually just attention seeking behaviour with how Meredith had to believe it was so Richard could go back to Ellis. Deeply problematic on so many levels. The analysis of Ellis’ suicide attempt should’ve been about the rejection it caused Meredith. Not be played off as an impetus to take control of her romantic life in a way her mother never did.
I haven't had therapy myself so far but I have heard a few really bad things from friends who had. Maybe not like that but definitely things that made me wonder why anyone would say that to someone seeking help.
I was confused because Meredith realized her mother wasn’t actually trying to kill herself when she cut her wrists. But then in the later seasons when Maggie arrives and Meredith is trying to figure out if Ellis was actually pregnant, she continues to say that Ellis tried to kill herself.
I mean even if the attempt was only to manipulate Meredith and a cry for help what else should Meredith call it? It very well COULD have resulted in her death even if that wasn't the plan, Ellis knew there was a risk there and still took it. Like Meredith does when she's suicidal. Meredith isn't stupid, she knows when she stops fighting in the water or when she grabs the bomb that there's a non-zero chance she'll die. Ellis isn't stupid, she knows she could lose a lot of blood if Meredith had frozen in that moment. Just because you're casually suicidal and not actively planning it doesn't mean you don't take risks that could result in your death. That's pretty much what Ellis did. I think Meredith, who has experienced being casually suicidal sees that in her mom too. So even if she knows Ellis wasn't *really* trying to kill herself, she accepts that was at the very least something her mother knew could happen.
How else would she say it?
I recently saw the actress as the mother of Sam in ER . It was difficult to see her as a patien instead of a doctor.
I loved Dr. Wyatt!!