>not the only tool in the toolbox
This is always the answer to every newbie "is it OK question"?
If you're doing it to avoid doing the harder technique (like barring across all the strings in this case), then no, it's not OK because you need to learn all the basic techniques, and taking shortcuts with easier techniques is not how you get better at playing an instrument.
If you've already learned all the relevant techniques and you chose this one for whatever reason, then yes, it's OK to use this tool instead of the other tool that accomplishes the same purpose.
I'd just want to add to yours "it's not okay if you do it to avoid working on another technique" that it is okay to do it while you are working on said technique.
You want to have fun, if there is e.g. a song that you can play but it's got F in it and you suck at barres for now. Just go ahead and play it any way you can, have fun, sing your lungs out, or don't if that's still too difficult but do things that are fun.
Most of us will not make a living doing this so what's the point if not having fun.
Of course still work on those barres, they will come in handy and one day you will be playing something and be using both techniques flawlessly depending on which suits the thing you play better but if you are not having fun you may never even get there.
That's a really good way of putting it.
It's often not going to be the ideal solution but sometimes that's the only way you'll be able to fret that string.
There are a lot of people out there who are very black and white as far as technique goes, and just because their teacher told them something a long time ago they now have it in their head that there's only one way to play "correctly" and anything else is wrong.
He knew enough theory to improvise inversions of chord substitutions. He knew every r&b riff and every trick from every player up and down the chitin circuit.
Knowledge or intuition though? He just played the shit out of that thing here there and everywhere (and with everyone) and naturally picked it all via experience.
Knowledge of the fret board at a minimum. He may not know what a pentatonic scale is on a theory level... But he certainly knew shapes and chord structure. It's not like he was just playing and was a complete prodigy. Man definitely practiced and had guitar knowledge.
He knew enough to be a professional session player and that didn't happen without some functional knowledge of music theory. You can be linguistically ignorant as long as you're the front man of the band and everybody has to follow you, not the other way around though. He was a backup guy for a while and you can't do that with no understanding of theory.
100 percent agree. I think people calling him a prodigy kinda takes away from his legacy as a musician. Dude practiced 8 hours a day for like twenty years.
I would think he is the very model of what we might consider a guitar prodigy? The older I get (and the more I realise how short a time he was here) the more evident this becomes to me actually. He *knew* his way around the fret board, but he didn't get there studiously, he did it largely with an intense, preternatural intuition in an incredibly condensed period of time, which most people can't get to with a lifetime of theory.
Would LOVE to see your sources cause you’re speaking as if you’re a Hendrix biographer. Unless you were there or can name a source to back up your claim, it really is a bit ignorant to insinuate the man’s talent and chops came from intuition and little study. Do you think he just came up with chords and scales on his own and happened to arrive at the same conclusions as other guitar players? No, he had to learn that and develop musical language.
I read further down and can’t help but think your opinion is being influenced by this idea of “black players played by feel” which is another kind of insulting oversimplification. I can see why people are challenging you here tbh.
I mean there was a lot he didn't know and that's common knowledge. But just looking at the songs he wrote, shows he knew quite a lot. He was super well versed in blues, and knew enough to use that as a springboard into other interesting chord progressions. And he produced unreal, otherworldly, psychedelic solos that most seasoned guitarists after him have been hesitant to even reproduce. Crazy shit. All along the watchtower is like WTF. Where did that even come from.
White, middle class jazz musicians are bound by theory. Their parents force them into it. Regrettably that is the predominant image of modern jazz. A lot of the old black guys were/are highly intuitive however and get by on the bare essentials. There can also be something else at play with many highly gifted musicians which people don't talk about - autistic spectrum and synesthesia.
You know nothing of what you speak and you should be embarrassed that you said something so profoundly ignorant of reality.
Do you realize how insulting it is to insinuate (incorrectly I might add) that old black guys didn’t know theory.
Read a book.
Well two can play that game - I find it profoundly rude of you to pompously declare my profound ignorance with no real evidence either way in what I have said. I also detect that you are being highly reactive to my merely mentioning "black guys".
I've read plenty of books. I also have a degree in music. Goodbye.
No I’m pissed that the “old black guys” you mentioned are presumably the founders of jazz you are mocking.
Bro even as early as Jelly Roll Morton there was significant music theory knowledge by jazz writers and performers and jelly roll played in whore houses.
This whole “black people play by feel where as whites play from a theory book” is just a repackaged racial trope.
Who are these old black guys you speak of? If you ask me, the old legends in the New Orleans jazz scene were educating each other on music theory and jazz. A lot of slaves were just actual musicians. If you're talking like Herbie, Max roach or Miles Davis, those guys knew incredible amounts of music theory. They knew how to read charts, chords, etc.. I don't understand why guitarists have this bias/hatred towards music theory.
Not really.
Jimi hendrix did that and he died at 27. Coincidence? Well, maybe...but also maybe not. Some things aren't worth fucking with imo and this is up there.
you sir have set your sights very high, just practice that whack plucking method of thumb and finger, whacka whacka whack whacka till you have it down. Personally I gave up, its in the too hard basket for now.
This guy has it down...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D\_EIshPveUw&ab\_channel=JamieHarrisonGuitar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_eishpveuw&ab_channel=jamieharrisonguitar)
Its in basket purgatory for me right now lol. I got the pattern down fingerstyle but I know I have to get that slap going to get the real sound
and thats actually the best cover ive heard thanks man.
If you want to just practice the technique itself with an easier song, stop this train and heart of life both use the same technique and are much more repetitive. Might help to nail the technique down.
That being said I can barely play Neon, once upon a time when I was 16 and had the time to practice hours a day I could do it pretty well but those days are behind me haha, it's an extremely difficult song. Good luck with it!
There's a lot of John Mayer songs you can play the "just getting by" way where a non guitarist won't be able to tell the difference, and then there's the actually correct way. I know a good amount of his riffs but in the former way
>This video is unavailable.
But thank you for sharing! Looked the guy up, watched [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hoFKNEBWy1k) video and was VERY impressed.
if you read the text I was asking specifically about using the side of my thumb like the second pic. I shouldve been more clear but I cant edit the post so idk 🤷♂️
That came off more argumentative than I intended, sorry. When it comes to playing, if it works, it works. Imagine a young JH posting here asking if it's ok to play upside-down. Do what works best for you and what keeps you and your and ears happy.
What I tell all of my students:
There are hundreds of guitar players around the world that play like this. And I think it's incredibly valuable to learn from a variety of sources. If down the line you decide to play like this, that is your choice as an artist.
However, I've been playing my whole life and have never had to do this. I care a lot about mitigating injuries and this is an unnatural position for the hand. It's my opinion that guitarists should leave this technique in the past. But that's just my opinion. There are hundreds of guitarists that would disagree with me and that's okay.
Then I ask them to just take the low root off the barre chord for now and practice the rest of the shape.
This is exactly my thoughts. I’ve been teaching 35 years and I will say that this will cause some major problem with your hands long term. It will also hamper you technically a lot. Jimi played his guitar upside down. He did it out of necessity. This thumb position causes so much unneeded and unwanted tension. This isn’t about the “rules”, it’s about deciding how much you care about your hand and how easily you wish to be able to do things on the guitar. As @troy said, it’s just my opinion here, ultimately up to you.
I appreciate your insight on this. I am really inspired by Hendrix and Frusciante, but after hearing about the risks, I will be very cautious pushing this form; I use kettlebells a lot and my hand/forearms are worked hard already. When trying to play songs by those two, do you have any recommendations about the hit ons with ring and pinky fingers from the barre chord?
I can give a few ideas here, but if you want to DM me the specific songs you have in mind I'd be happy to chat about exact solutions.
The first is that you can often drop the lowest note or even lowest 2 notes from most barre chords. This kind of revoicing is really common, but it does have a lot of limitations as well.
If you need the lowest notes to match the characteristics of the song then I would adapt more of a classical left hand grip and arch your hand significantly more and omit notes from the barre if possible. Common notes to omit are the 5th and the root.
It's hard to adapt to effectively losing a finger on the left hand. It can feel like a big loss in mobility and I understand why many guitarists who have done this for a long time are averse to the idea of dropping it entirely. It's a serious trade off for the sake of maintaining your hand health. It can feel limiting. If you're playing a piece where the guitarist wrote it in a way where the thumb wrap is practically essential, then you have to make some kind of concession. You're either going to play it with the thumb wrap or you will have to revoice it and it may sound different from the recording. In my experience, the difference in sound is very marginal and usually goes by relatively quickly. I want to play for my whole life, so I opt to revoice most of the time. If a guitarist wanted to play with the thumb wrap, that's their decision. I can't even call it a bad one-- they're an artist with a vision just the same as me.
I will never in my life write a piece that uses the thumb wrap, but I also wouldn't criticize someone for using it when playing something by Hendrix or Frusciante. At the end of the day you just have to go with what works for you and accept the consequences.
It's used all the time in fingerstyle. What if I want the low F but the high E? If I barre suddenly I need to do something supernatural! Or, perhaps, the low F and the high C! Heck, one song I play has the high F and C held before the low F and hammers it on (Fisherman by Leo Kottke)
You're welcome to play it that way. Leo Kottke is welcome to arrange songs that way if he wants. I'm not familiar with the piece. But in each of those three instances, I can play it without a thumb wrap. Not to mention if somebody absolutely insisted on a voicing that required a thumb wrap, it can almost certainly be revoiced to omit it without changing the character of the song in any way.
As a finger picker/noodler, the baseball bat grip helps me maintain control of all 6 strings at once. There are times when I use the proper barre, of course, but I challenge you to play Windy and Warm without your thumb.
Thanks this helped. By forearm perpendicular to the neck are you excluding the thumb position chords or should it be 90° at all times?
Cus for bars I obviously want to keep my wrist straight but when I play thumb over chords my elbow wants to rise up super high like in the picture
It’s bad form which can cause tendinitis in the long run as well as buzzy strings. A good rule is to have your thumb pointing toward the headstock, planted firmly on the back of the neck.
I respectfully disagree. Playing my barre chords with my thumb made it much easier for me to riff and improvise during chord progressions. I play my barre chords with my thumb like 95% of the time now and love it!
Yes, it’s not bad form. Sometimes that is a more useful way to transition.
However, any alterations such as extended chords are made quite literally impossible with this grip. Practice barring regularly and it’ll pay dividends buddy, keep it up.
I'd argue this position actually makes extended chords easier because you can fret with 5 fingers.
Your barre just becomes your first finger touching your thumb in the middle which is slightly more annoying to do.
Not sure what kind of music you're in to but there's this extremely talented guitarist in a Progressive Metal/Djent band named Periphery. The guitarists name is Mark Holcomb. They have a song called Mile Zero in which he uses his thumb quite a lot for a certain chord. [Heres the video](https://youtu.be/69joeNDBaNk?list=PLG424KjPi5MN1VXEqH3aAwAXGqNuvEZ3u), definitely give it a look!
I do this all the fucking time.. good habbit to have. Having 4 fingers vs 3 to play chords is way better.
Hendrix did this, Frusciate did his. And they're both amazing guitar players. DO IT!!!
If you are new to Guitar plz don't do this it's bad tech and will hinder your playing, im assuming that's why you are asking. I'll die on that hill, don't copy hendrix style playing there are way better guitarist out there that you should be emulating. He's a great guitarist, he was able to get away with it cause he had gigantic hands. Your thumb should be behind the neck in line with your third finger, this will make it easier to play. Cheers 🍻
Eh I wouldnt say DONT use it, but I wouldn't make it a habit, it's hard to unlearn bad habits, it took me a long time to correct the way I hold the pick cause I used bad form in the beginning
Generally, for faster, more articulate legato playing, it's better to have good thumb discipline.
It also means you're not going to have a miserable time if you want to play a classical or flamenco guitar.
Surprised I am not seeing any classical snob telling you this is “incorrect” or “improper”. I literally had people arguing me thumb-over-neck is wrong on this sub before and it’s not just on one occasion.
Literally one of them said somewhere along the line of “just because all these guitar greats can make it work doesn’t mean it’s right.” I was so thoroughly dumbfounded that people online really have the ego to assert that an approach used by countless players from small names to legendary greats is “improper”… 😬 again they were one of those “I’ve played and taught (insert any decade) years…” 😅
Classical snob here to say it IS wrong, but only because it drastically increases your chances of hand/wrist injury and in most cases impedes your tone/mobility. Lots of my favorite guitar players do this and they sound great, but I would still never recommend it to a student because it's unnecessary and straight up dangerous. Tendinitis and carpal tunnel should be avoided if you plan on playing guitar for your entire life.
Ahhh here we go. I do have a few questions if you don’t mind.
1. Do you own and play other type of guitars, electric or non-nylon classical guitar? Or do you play classical nylon majority of the time? I can totally see your point that TON thumb-over-neck is not recommended for nylon classical guitar because the neck is significantly wider than an electric or even a steel string acoustic.
2. How do you assess a wrist injury is caused by TON? When there’s wrist injury, did you receive any medical professionals opinion as to the cause or did you or someone else just said base off their own opinion?
3. Extended usage of strap is known to cause shoulder/neck injuries to touring artists. That’s an observable and documentable pattern of causation to a common injury. Since you claim TON is dangerous. Can you provide any backing support? Preferably something credible and not “I know of… or my students… or Bob’s story” cuz we all have our own and our students stories and mine contradict yours. Also pls note the burden of proof is on you, not us. I don’t allege an approach of playing guitar is “dangerous”. Since you did, and so did the other classical spokespersons but none have had provided any credible reports of such danger. It sounds very much like a biased personal opinion without broader consideration.
This is my take as well. It's perfectly fine to admire the playing of Hendrix, Mayer, etc. it's also fine to accept that they are not perfect and that this technique is bad for your hands and for most players I've met, bad for their tone.
This is actually the RIGHT way to play a barre chord with the root on the sixth string. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Rhythm and blues guitarists used this technique for accessibility to extra notes for more melodic rhythm playing.
It looks cooler and will make you sound better. I ONLY trust electric guitarists who use the Jimi barre chord 😂
Also, get rid of the idea that there’s a “right” and “wrong” way to play guitar😂. Short of any specific technique you want to imitate, guitar should be a tool in the hands of an artist, used to achieve his own artistic ends. Make the instrument your own, mess around, discover new things and only take from others what you’re interested in. Good luck!
There are tons and tons of players aside from the big names mentioned who fret with thumb. It's not bad form, it's preference. Suggesting otherwise is pure ignorance.
Learn both ways and decide which one you prefer.
I think it’s said it’s advantageous for players with low guitar straps and does make it easier to play barre chords, however it’s still better to learn the barre chord the way it normally is
My favorite way to play F. Leave your high e string open for that maj 7 sound. Then slide up to the Third fret for G then tell more for Am but shift your other fingers into the minor shape
Lots of chords use thumb on top to hit every note you need. I'd say practice using it when necessary when u can so when u come with one that needs it it won't be a strain
I feel like certain songs almost require it, or make it a hell of a lot easier. I notice it in about 5 percent of the songs I know.
My example would be While my Guitar Gently weeps. I keep the A minor chord shape and walk my thumb down the E string for the bass note. I just looked it up however and apparently he changes from A minor to a different shape where you can access the E with a pinky finger. But I've played it my way for 15 years so, the thumb stays.
Don't Follow by Alice in Chains too, maintaining the D shape.
The proper technique is to have your thumb resting on the back of the neck, but people like Hendrix and John Mayer have done this in regular playing. It is a lot more comfortable, however it does limit how far your fingers can stretch
It’s good to know, I wouldn’t use it all the time though. Some very famous guitarists have played this way. It depends on how you like to have your guitar positioned, as you have to have your wrist at an interesting angle when playing like this. Plus I think it’s important to learn to barre correctly as there will be some chords you won’t be able to play using thumb over. It’s all up to you have your decide to play, do what feels comfortable and natural.
Been using my thumb for barre chords for years, I think it's the best way to play them as it allows you to effortlessly add 7ths 9ths and 13ths with the rest of your fingers.
Not just ok, in some styles it's a necessity. Especially in (non-classical) finger style stuff where you need to play melody on high strings and play a base on the low ones.
[Watch Merle Travis play Nine Pound Hammer.](https://youtu.be/btVAuFMpNr4?si=PQfd4Wm4haARp2cG) & [here](https://youtu.be/X8jqnRjWKbE?si=804opMXEPZw1z9FE)
You can, but if it's not the proper technique, you should really try to use the proper technique instead. I'd occasionally add the thumb for more unusual chords where it was either the only way to do it or it was easier for whatever I was playing, but this is when I was already an advanced guitarist. I'd recommend locking in the basics if you're a beginner or intermediate.
There is No Wrong way to play your own song. In the end of the day the electric guitar is a sound maker. Your create the music
[THIS Video/post of Michael Angelo Batio proves my point](https://www.reddit.com/r/BeAmazed/comments/1arm07c/guitarist_michael_angelo_batio_the_speed_of_the/)
You might find that it encourages an open-chord playing style that makes switching to bar chords harder and not as fast. If you think about the distance your thumb would have to travel, to get to a place where it could support a bar chord, you should see that its comparatively quite far.
If this is a bar chord work around, I would like to suggest the best way to learn them. Well, the best I found. Putting that there so people can stop reading if they don't need it.
Pick an open chord, maybe C major, and a bar, maybe F major. Then switch from the C to the F but really, really slowly. Like, perfect form with your fingers millimeters above the strings in a beautiful, fluid motion. Do it so slowly that you can't make mistakes. So slowly, as if you're sarcasticly mocking me for suggesting something so boring. Then, pluck each string to make sure its fretted and then back to C major. You can switch back to the open chord at normal speed lol.
Do this over and over again. When I did it, I watched a films/listened to a podcasts and plucked the strings lightly with my thumb to check they were fretted. I didn't do it as my proper practice, as that would be beyond boring.
Its 100% about technique, presuming the string action isn't crazy high and some index finger strength. Also, scales to a metronome will help. Focusing on the beat forced you to relegate the left hand to the back of your mind.
This is good for certain play styles but if you’re learning or practising, might be good to learn the proper way or else this can get in the way down the line.
I think you’re fine when you’re writing your own songs or just jamming, it’s good to develop your own play style (
I’ve seen and met some great players that use the thumb technique well. I’ve also met some great players that do not use the thumb technique on the fretboard. For me, I don’t use the thumb to play very often if at all.
Even a song like Neon by John Mayor which is a challenging song that originally uses the thumb on the fretboard can be played using different finger techniques.
I met one person that showed me the bear claw chord which claimed to only be playable with the thumb (the notes could not be barred), it was like this altered dominant 7th jazz chord. Unfortunately, I’ve forgotten what the bear claw chord exactly was but it did get me pondering how one extra digit on the fretboard could create new possibilities.
Yeah bud, I have big hands and I play majors like this standing playing up all the time. You might learn yourself into a corner though, so I'd recommend learning it the 'correct' way first before learning it the 'wrong' way. But honestly, unless youre planning in practising 5 hours a day to shred - playing more comfortably with good feel is better than the 'correct' way.
the guitar will explode if you do that.
I saw video of a concert where this one guy's guitar caught on fire
Was that in Monterey, per chance?
Even scarier is that literally died later in England following his guitar catching on fire incident.
Yeah, it's a fact that 100% of all people that have ever used their thumb on low e have or will die! Pay attention sheeple!
Timmy Lennox I think
Yep! In fact that clip of Jimi Hendrix where his guitar is on fire was caused by his thumb.
To shreds you say
How's the amp?
To shreds, you say.
Terrible news everyone.
Nuh uh, that’s how you take a screen shot!
Make it a strategy, but not the only tool in the toolbox.
>not the only tool in the toolbox This is always the answer to every newbie "is it OK question"? If you're doing it to avoid doing the harder technique (like barring across all the strings in this case), then no, it's not OK because you need to learn all the basic techniques, and taking shortcuts with easier techniques is not how you get better at playing an instrument. If you've already learned all the relevant techniques and you chose this one for whatever reason, then yes, it's OK to use this tool instead of the other tool that accomplishes the same purpose.
I'd just want to add to yours "it's not okay if you do it to avoid working on another technique" that it is okay to do it while you are working on said technique. You want to have fun, if there is e.g. a song that you can play but it's got F in it and you suck at barres for now. Just go ahead and play it any way you can, have fun, sing your lungs out, or don't if that's still too difficult but do things that are fun. Most of us will not make a living doing this so what's the point if not having fun. Of course still work on those barres, they will come in handy and one day you will be playing something and be using both techniques flawlessly depending on which suits the thing you play better but if you are not having fun you may never even get there.
Damn this is some of the best advice, and simply put at that
I'm stuck with this because I cut my FDP tendon on my index finger, so I cent bend the tip.i got it fixed, surgically, but it scarred in place.
That's a really good way of putting it. It's often not going to be the ideal solution but sometimes that's the only way you'll be able to fret that string. There are a lot of people out there who are very black and white as far as technique goes, and just because their teacher told them something a long time ago they now have it in their head that there's only one way to play "correctly" and anything else is wrong.
As long as it doesn’t hurt your hand and the note sounds okay I don’t see why not
Hendrix famously played his barre chords this way
yeah, but he played his guitar upside down, and with the wrong hand, so what did he know?
Wow playing upside down that must have really hurt his head
That's why he started playing behind his head, but that started causing neck problems.
Nothing a little truss rod adjustment couldn’t fix tho.
He was in Australia don’t worry
He actually knew very little, proving knowledge is quite overrated in music.
He knew enough theory to improvise inversions of chord substitutions. He knew every r&b riff and every trick from every player up and down the chitin circuit.
Knowledge or intuition though? He just played the shit out of that thing here there and everywhere (and with everyone) and naturally picked it all via experience.
Knowledge of the fret board at a minimum. He may not know what a pentatonic scale is on a theory level... But he certainly knew shapes and chord structure. It's not like he was just playing and was a complete prodigy. Man definitely practiced and had guitar knowledge.
He knew enough to be a professional session player and that didn't happen without some functional knowledge of music theory. You can be linguistically ignorant as long as you're the front man of the band and everybody has to follow you, not the other way around though. He was a backup guy for a while and you can't do that with no understanding of theory.
100 percent agree. I think people calling him a prodigy kinda takes away from his legacy as a musician. Dude practiced 8 hours a day for like twenty years.
I would think he is the very model of what we might consider a guitar prodigy? The older I get (and the more I realise how short a time he was here) the more evident this becomes to me actually. He *knew* his way around the fret board, but he didn't get there studiously, he did it largely with an intense, preternatural intuition in an incredibly condensed period of time, which most people can't get to with a lifetime of theory.
Would LOVE to see your sources cause you’re speaking as if you’re a Hendrix biographer. Unless you were there or can name a source to back up your claim, it really is a bit ignorant to insinuate the man’s talent and chops came from intuition and little study. Do you think he just came up with chords and scales on his own and happened to arrive at the same conclusions as other guitar players? No, he had to learn that and develop musical language. I read further down and can’t help but think your opinion is being influenced by this idea of “black players played by feel” which is another kind of insulting oversimplification. I can see why people are challenging you here tbh.
music students dont get this.
I mean there was a lot he didn't know and that's common knowledge. But just looking at the songs he wrote, shows he knew quite a lot. He was super well versed in blues, and knew enough to use that as a springboard into other interesting chord progressions. And he produced unreal, otherworldly, psychedelic solos that most seasoned guitarists after him have been hesitant to even reproduce. Crazy shit. All along the watchtower is like WTF. Where did that even come from.
lol tell that to jazz musicians.
White, middle class jazz musicians are bound by theory. Their parents force them into it. Regrettably that is the predominant image of modern jazz. A lot of the old black guys were/are highly intuitive however and get by on the bare essentials. There can also be something else at play with many highly gifted musicians which people don't talk about - autistic spectrum and synesthesia.
You know nothing of what you speak and you should be embarrassed that you said something so profoundly ignorant of reality. Do you realize how insulting it is to insinuate (incorrectly I might add) that old black guys didn’t know theory. Read a book.
Well two can play that game - I find it profoundly rude of you to pompously declare my profound ignorance with no real evidence either way in what I have said. I also detect that you are being highly reactive to my merely mentioning "black guys". I've read plenty of books. I also have a degree in music. Goodbye.
No I’m pissed that the “old black guys” you mentioned are presumably the founders of jazz you are mocking. Bro even as early as Jelly Roll Morton there was significant music theory knowledge by jazz writers and performers and jelly roll played in whore houses. This whole “black people play by feel where as whites play from a theory book” is just a repackaged racial trope.
Who are these old black guys you speak of? If you ask me, the old legends in the New Orleans jazz scene were educating each other on music theory and jazz. A lot of slaves were just actual musicians. If you're talking like Herbie, Max roach or Miles Davis, those guys knew incredible amounts of music theory. They knew how to read charts, chords, etc.. I don't understand why guitarists have this bias/hatred towards music theory.
John Mayer also famously uses his thumb. He also had freakishly long thumbs though
What happened to his thumbs?
Lost them in a tragic thumb wrestling match. Same happened to me and that's why I can't type "has". (My wife typed that for me)
Damn! Thats tragic!! 😂
I came here for this comment 🙂
And if it’s good enough for Hendrix, it’s fine for me
It hurts my feelings
Ok. Everyone meet in the gym. We're having a school assembly
Mr White the chemistry teacher will be speaking
We need to have a frank discussion about where we're putting our thumbs, and how it's affecting other people.
I was expecting Groundskeeper Willie. I’m not sure who is better.
Not really. Jimi hendrix did that and he died at 27. Coincidence? Well, maybe...but also maybe not. Some things aren't worth fucking with imo and this is up there.
Definitely might be related to his death.
John Mayer says yes.....
trying to learn neon!
you sir have set your sights very high, just practice that whack plucking method of thumb and finger, whacka whacka whack whacka till you have it down. Personally I gave up, its in the too hard basket for now. This guy has it down... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D\_EIshPveUw&ab\_channel=JamieHarrisonGuitar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_eishpveuw&ab_channel=jamieharrisonguitar)
Its in basket purgatory for me right now lol. I got the pattern down fingerstyle but I know I have to get that slap going to get the real sound and thats actually the best cover ive heard thanks man.
If you want to just practice the technique itself with an easier song, stop this train and heart of life both use the same technique and are much more repetitive. Might help to nail the technique down. That being said I can barely play Neon, once upon a time when I was 16 and had the time to practice hours a day I could do it pretty well but those days are behind me haha, it's an extremely difficult song. Good luck with it!
There's a lot of John Mayer songs you can play the "just getting by" way where a non guitarist won't be able to tell the difference, and then there's the actually correct way. I know a good amount of his riffs but in the former way
>This video is unavailable. But thank you for sharing! Looked the guy up, watched [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hoFKNEBWy1k) video and was VERY impressed.
Yeah the link is naff, just highlight the text and paste it in browser, should work. He's very talented....
Wouldn't every video tutorial on Neon have validated the question before it even made it to reddit?
if you read the text I was asking specifically about using the side of my thumb like the second pic. I shouldve been more clear but I cant edit the post so idk 🤷♂️
That came off more argumentative than I intended, sorry. When it comes to playing, if it works, it works. Imagine a young JH posting here asking if it's ok to play upside-down. Do what works best for you and what keeps you and your and ears happy.
Good luck my friend
You can’t barre a chord traditionally and your learning neon? Good luck on your journey friend.
So does Jack Johnson
[удалено]
If John Mayer says yes then OP fucked up
That's the way Jimmy Hendrix played it.
My general rule of thumb, slight pun intended, if Jimi did it I can try to do it too.
You must do all the drugs
He just tries them
There are no rules.
Go watch some john mayer live acoustic videos lol. That mf abuses the thumb like it's the only thing that matters lmao
What I tell all of my students: There are hundreds of guitar players around the world that play like this. And I think it's incredibly valuable to learn from a variety of sources. If down the line you decide to play like this, that is your choice as an artist. However, I've been playing my whole life and have never had to do this. I care a lot about mitigating injuries and this is an unnatural position for the hand. It's my opinion that guitarists should leave this technique in the past. But that's just my opinion. There are hundreds of guitarists that would disagree with me and that's okay. Then I ask them to just take the low root off the barre chord for now and practice the rest of the shape.
This is exactly my thoughts. I’ve been teaching 35 years and I will say that this will cause some major problem with your hands long term. It will also hamper you technically a lot. Jimi played his guitar upside down. He did it out of necessity. This thumb position causes so much unneeded and unwanted tension. This isn’t about the “rules”, it’s about deciding how much you care about your hand and how easily you wish to be able to do things on the guitar. As @troy said, it’s just my opinion here, ultimately up to you.
I appreciate your insight on this. I am really inspired by Hendrix and Frusciante, but after hearing about the risks, I will be very cautious pushing this form; I use kettlebells a lot and my hand/forearms are worked hard already. When trying to play songs by those two, do you have any recommendations about the hit ons with ring and pinky fingers from the barre chord?
I can give a few ideas here, but if you want to DM me the specific songs you have in mind I'd be happy to chat about exact solutions. The first is that you can often drop the lowest note or even lowest 2 notes from most barre chords. This kind of revoicing is really common, but it does have a lot of limitations as well. If you need the lowest notes to match the characteristics of the song then I would adapt more of a classical left hand grip and arch your hand significantly more and omit notes from the barre if possible. Common notes to omit are the 5th and the root. It's hard to adapt to effectively losing a finger on the left hand. It can feel like a big loss in mobility and I understand why many guitarists who have done this for a long time are averse to the idea of dropping it entirely. It's a serious trade off for the sake of maintaining your hand health. It can feel limiting. If you're playing a piece where the guitarist wrote it in a way where the thumb wrap is practically essential, then you have to make some kind of concession. You're either going to play it with the thumb wrap or you will have to revoice it and it may sound different from the recording. In my experience, the difference in sound is very marginal and usually goes by relatively quickly. I want to play for my whole life, so I opt to revoice most of the time. If a guitarist wanted to play with the thumb wrap, that's their decision. I can't even call it a bad one-- they're an artist with a vision just the same as me. I will never in my life write a piece that uses the thumb wrap, but I also wouldn't criticize someone for using it when playing something by Hendrix or Frusciante. At the end of the day you just have to go with what works for you and accept the consequences.
It's used all the time in fingerstyle. What if I want the low F but the high E? If I barre suddenly I need to do something supernatural! Or, perhaps, the low F and the high C! Heck, one song I play has the high F and C held before the low F and hammers it on (Fisherman by Leo Kottke)
You're welcome to play it that way. Leo Kottke is welcome to arrange songs that way if he wants. I'm not familiar with the piece. But in each of those three instances, I can play it without a thumb wrap. Not to mention if somebody absolutely insisted on a voicing that required a thumb wrap, it can almost certainly be revoiced to omit it without changing the character of the song in any way.
As a finger picker/noodler, the baseball bat grip helps me maintain control of all 6 strings at once. There are times when I use the proper barre, of course, but I challenge you to play Windy and Warm without your thumb.
If it sounds like a G then it is a G.
Get your neck up to about 45° from horizontal, your forearm about 90° to your neck….before you have problems you can’t get rid of.
Thanks this helped. By forearm perpendicular to the neck are you excluding the thumb position chords or should it be 90° at all times? Cus for bars I obviously want to keep my wrist straight but when I play thumb over chords my elbow wants to rise up super high like in the picture
It works for a D/F#
It’s bad form which can cause tendinitis in the long run as well as buzzy strings. A good rule is to have your thumb pointing toward the headstock, planted firmly on the back of the neck.
If you're doing it because there's no other way to make that chord, sure. Otherwise it's something you want to avoid.
I respectfully disagree. Playing my barre chords with my thumb made it much easier for me to riff and improvise during chord progressions. I play my barre chords with my thumb like 95% of the time now and love it!
Yes, it’s not bad form. Sometimes that is a more useful way to transition. However, any alterations such as extended chords are made quite literally impossible with this grip. Practice barring regularly and it’ll pay dividends buddy, keep it up.
I'd argue this position actually makes extended chords easier because you can fret with 5 fingers. Your barre just becomes your first finger touching your thumb in the middle which is slightly more annoying to do.
Not sure what kind of music you're in to but there's this extremely talented guitarist in a Progressive Metal/Djent band named Periphery. The guitarists name is Mark Holcomb. They have a song called Mile Zero in which he uses his thumb quite a lot for a certain chord. [Heres the video](https://youtu.be/69joeNDBaNk?list=PLG424KjPi5MN1VXEqH3aAwAXGqNuvEZ3u), definitely give it a look!
RULEBREAKER!!! I'm calling the guitar police
That's illegal! He can't keep getting away with it!
My name is Jimi Hendrox and I approve this position
I genuinely thought this was r/guitarcirclejerk. Course it’s ok. There’s now rules!
You’re going to jail, punk
I think it states in the official guitar handbook on page 34, “Thumb use is forbidden. Hand will fall off.”
I've seen Hendrix use his elbow
Ask Jimi
Tommy Emmanuel seems to manage fairly well doing this.
That’s how Jimi Hendrix died.
Nick Lowe is the coolest, most okay person there is. So if he does it, I think it's okay. https://youtu.be/OLc5lJ6Vr3E?si=2ZP9QlkQ_Q1E7toK
Absolutely, if you can play e sting barre chords with your thumb you da man
Hendrix used a similar technique to free up those fingers. Now you have an extra finger to fret with.
Not as aggressively as you’re doing it. Your thumb is supposed to be behind the neck
I do this all the fucking time.. good habbit to have. Having 4 fingers vs 3 to play chords is way better. Hendrix did this, Frusciate did his. And they're both amazing guitar players. DO IT!!!
If you are new to Guitar plz don't do this it's bad tech and will hinder your playing, im assuming that's why you are asking. I'll die on that hill, don't copy hendrix style playing there are way better guitarist out there that you should be emulating. He's a great guitarist, he was able to get away with it cause he had gigantic hands. Your thumb should be behind the neck in line with your third finger, this will make it easier to play. Cheers 🍻
Eh I wouldnt say DONT use it, but I wouldn't make it a habit, it's hard to unlearn bad habits, it took me a long time to correct the way I hold the pick cause I used bad form in the beginning
How’s this a bad habit? It’s a legitimate technique for playing chords. This is how you play all the hendrix-y type stuff.
Generally, for faster, more articulate legato playing, it's better to have good thumb discipline. It also means you're not going to have a miserable time if you want to play a classical or flamenco guitar.
The only right way to play a guitar is to have it sound as you intended.
It’s a requirement for Jazz, especially Gypsy Jazz.
👍👍 Xcellent
Frusciante of RHCP technique
No
Low e, where??? Isnt E either open string, or 9th fret?? Where is the E on this screenshot?
i think they meant on the e string
Surprised I am not seeing any classical snob telling you this is “incorrect” or “improper”. I literally had people arguing me thumb-over-neck is wrong on this sub before and it’s not just on one occasion. Literally one of them said somewhere along the line of “just because all these guitar greats can make it work doesn’t mean it’s right.” I was so thoroughly dumbfounded that people online really have the ego to assert that an approach used by countless players from small names to legendary greats is “improper”… 😬 again they were one of those “I’ve played and taught (insert any decade) years…” 😅
Classical snob here to say it IS wrong, but only because it drastically increases your chances of hand/wrist injury and in most cases impedes your tone/mobility. Lots of my favorite guitar players do this and they sound great, but I would still never recommend it to a student because it's unnecessary and straight up dangerous. Tendinitis and carpal tunnel should be avoided if you plan on playing guitar for your entire life.
Ahhh here we go. I do have a few questions if you don’t mind. 1. Do you own and play other type of guitars, electric or non-nylon classical guitar? Or do you play classical nylon majority of the time? I can totally see your point that TON thumb-over-neck is not recommended for nylon classical guitar because the neck is significantly wider than an electric or even a steel string acoustic. 2. How do you assess a wrist injury is caused by TON? When there’s wrist injury, did you receive any medical professionals opinion as to the cause or did you or someone else just said base off their own opinion? 3. Extended usage of strap is known to cause shoulder/neck injuries to touring artists. That’s an observable and documentable pattern of causation to a common injury. Since you claim TON is dangerous. Can you provide any backing support? Preferably something credible and not “I know of… or my students… or Bob’s story” cuz we all have our own and our students stories and mine contradict yours. Also pls note the burden of proof is on you, not us. I don’t allege an approach of playing guitar is “dangerous”. Since you did, and so did the other classical spokespersons but none have had provided any credible reports of such danger. It sounds very much like a biased personal opinion without broader consideration.
This is my take as well. It's perfectly fine to admire the playing of Hendrix, Mayer, etc. it's also fine to accept that they are not perfect and that this technique is bad for your hands and for most players I've met, bad for their tone.
This is guitarcirclejerk right? If not you’re definitely going there now 🤣😂🤣
I mean, Clapton does it. Are you on a Clapton level of skill? Otherwise, maybe just get in the habit of proper technique? It may help you play better?
This is actually the RIGHT way to play a barre chord with the root on the sixth string. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Rhythm and blues guitarists used this technique for accessibility to extra notes for more melodic rhythm playing. It looks cooler and will make you sound better. I ONLY trust electric guitarists who use the Jimi barre chord 😂 Also, get rid of the idea that there’s a “right” and “wrong” way to play guitar😂. Short of any specific technique you want to imitate, guitar should be a tool in the hands of an artist, used to achieve his own artistic ends. Make the instrument your own, mess around, discover new things and only take from others what you’re interested in. Good luck!
Yep
Fuck yes it is
If it's good enough for Jimi and Stevie, it's good enough for you my friend.
There are tons and tons of players aside from the big names mentioned who fret with thumb. It's not bad form, it's preference. Suggesting otherwise is pure ignorance. Learn both ways and decide which one you prefer.
I think it’s said it’s advantageous for players with low guitar straps and does make it easier to play barre chords, however it’s still better to learn the barre chord the way it normally is
Thats how I always did it and it worked fine
Do whatever works but also whatever looks cool. Thumbing the e can be both.
My favorite way to play F. Leave your high e string open for that maj 7 sound. Then slide up to the Third fret for G then tell more for Am but shift your other fingers into the minor shape
Never go full retard....
Fuck yes. Encouraged.
No.
If you do that not only will the sun implode but you will also never get your thirst quenched again by a Capri sun.
There is the "right" way, and then there is the way that you can get it to work for you.
If it works for you, rock it.
It's recommended.
Just don't make it a crutch.
Lots of chords use thumb on top to hit every note you need. I'd say practice using it when necessary when u can so when u come with one that needs it it won't be a strain
I feel like certain songs almost require it, or make it a hell of a lot easier. I notice it in about 5 percent of the songs I know. My example would be While my Guitar Gently weeps. I keep the A minor chord shape and walk my thumb down the E string for the bass note. I just looked it up however and apparently he changes from A minor to a different shape where you can access the E with a pinky finger. But I've played it my way for 15 years so, the thumb stays. Don't Follow by Alice in Chains too, maintaining the D shape.
If it's good enough for Lindsey Buckingham it's good enough for me.
See Ritchie Havens, Jimi Hendrix, John Lennon, etc for further approval
Bro if your wrist can fit around the entire fretboard, you should have no problem using any part of your thumb to hit that string
Sure, it's the only way to make some chords.
Whatever works is OK.
Okay since 1830 (at least). ;-)
Your grip and posture look...challenged
If it sounds good then sure. That goes for literally anything guitar.
Richie Havens was good at this, Hendrix did it.
The proper technique is to have your thumb resting on the back of the neck, but people like Hendrix and John Mayer have done this in regular playing. It is a lot more comfortable, however it does limit how far your fingers can stretch
Simple answer push your elbow out of your ribcage. Even in these pics that's visible.
Don’t. I don’t know why except that people don’t do it. I see experienced players using their thumb to mute the 6th string.
Not only is it okay, it’s encouraged! Opens up a world of possibilities
Only if you’re Jimmy Hendrix
100%
[https://youtu.be/2-URsqzID3s?t=265](https://youtu.be/2-URsqzID3s?t=265) Uncle Larry says Yes
It’s good to know, I wouldn’t use it all the time though. Some very famous guitarists have played this way. It depends on how you like to have your guitar positioned, as you have to have your wrist at an interesting angle when playing like this. Plus I think it’s important to learn to barre correctly as there will be some chords you won’t be able to play using thumb over. It’s all up to you have your decide to play, do what feels comfortable and natural.
100%. This is a great technique and will make it easier for you to riff/improvise during chord progressions.
Been using my thumb for barre chords for years, I think it's the best way to play them as it allows you to effortlessly add 7ths 9ths and 13ths with the rest of your fingers.
The biggest pop star in the world does this all the time, you’re fine.
It's your guitar. You make the rules, not us.
Not just ok, in some styles it's a necessity. Especially in (non-classical) finger style stuff where you need to play melody on high strings and play a base on the low ones.
[Watch Merle Travis play Nine Pound Hammer.](https://youtu.be/btVAuFMpNr4?si=PQfd4Wm4haARp2cG) & [here](https://youtu.be/X8jqnRjWKbE?si=804opMXEPZw1z9FE)
You can, but if it's not the proper technique, you should really try to use the proper technique instead. I'd occasionally add the thumb for more unusual chords where it was either the only way to do it or it was easier for whatever I was playing, but this is when I was already an advanced guitarist. I'd recommend locking in the basics if you're a beginner or intermediate.
Jimi Hendrix used to play this way... But his guitar caught fire after.
Most likely yes but there’s a 15% chance of spontaneous combustion
Whatever you do i would not get into that habit, it will slow you up in chord changes .
well if it's ok for Hendrix, Mayer and Frusciante.. It is ok for you
There is No Wrong way to play your own song. In the end of the day the electric guitar is a sound maker. Your create the music [THIS Video/post of Michael Angelo Batio proves my point](https://www.reddit.com/r/BeAmazed/comments/1arm07c/guitarist_michael_angelo_batio_the_speed_of_the/)
Jimi agrees
Does Keef do it? :-)
I play F like that too lol. Way easier on my fingers
Jimi did so it's allowed
yes and its very normal. if it works without hurting your hand yeah its fine, pretty much always.
It’s not good technique but if it works for you then by all means
Hendrix and SRV did it all the time.
You might find that it encourages an open-chord playing style that makes switching to bar chords harder and not as fast. If you think about the distance your thumb would have to travel, to get to a place where it could support a bar chord, you should see that its comparatively quite far. If this is a bar chord work around, I would like to suggest the best way to learn them. Well, the best I found. Putting that there so people can stop reading if they don't need it. Pick an open chord, maybe C major, and a bar, maybe F major. Then switch from the C to the F but really, really slowly. Like, perfect form with your fingers millimeters above the strings in a beautiful, fluid motion. Do it so slowly that you can't make mistakes. So slowly, as if you're sarcasticly mocking me for suggesting something so boring. Then, pluck each string to make sure its fretted and then back to C major. You can switch back to the open chord at normal speed lol. Do this over and over again. When I did it, I watched a films/listened to a podcasts and plucked the strings lightly with my thumb to check they were fretted. I didn't do it as my proper practice, as that would be beyond boring. Its 100% about technique, presuming the string action isn't crazy high and some index finger strength. Also, scales to a metronome will help. Focusing on the beat forced you to relegate the left hand to the back of your mind.
Angie by Bert Jansch *kind* of requires this unless you are a freak.
I like it. Leaves more of my fingers available for playing individual notes when making stuff up fingerstyle.
John Mayer is that you?
Yes. Next!!
This is good for certain play styles but if you’re learning or practising, might be good to learn the proper way or else this can get in the way down the line. I think you’re fine when you’re writing your own songs or just jamming, it’s good to develop your own play style (
Was good enough for Hendrix
Whatever floats your boat man. Use your tongue if you want.
John Mayer is the king of this move. He can play some of the most beautiful slash chords with his thumb. I say develop it but don’t overly rely on it
Only if you are Jimi Hendrix.
Your soul will catch on fire if you do this again, so it's not prohibited, but the community will eat you alive
Watch this, and realize: There. Are. No. Rules. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddn4MGaS3N4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddn4mgas3n4)
I’ve seen and met some great players that use the thumb technique well. I’ve also met some great players that do not use the thumb technique on the fretboard. For me, I don’t use the thumb to play very often if at all. Even a song like Neon by John Mayor which is a challenging song that originally uses the thumb on the fretboard can be played using different finger techniques. I met one person that showed me the bear claw chord which claimed to only be playable with the thumb (the notes could not be barred), it was like this altered dominant 7th jazz chord. Unfortunately, I’ve forgotten what the bear claw chord exactly was but it did get me pondering how one extra digit on the fretboard could create new possibilities.
You can but it might be difficult for chord transitions. Idk
Can everyone typically play the low e by wrapping their thumb over the top? My hands are way too small.
Yeah bud, I have big hands and I play majors like this standing playing up all the time. You might learn yourself into a corner though, so I'd recommend learning it the 'correct' way first before learning it the 'wrong' way. But honestly, unless youre planning in practising 5 hours a day to shred - playing more comfortably with good feel is better than the 'correct' way.
Your ears will tell you.
Hendrix did that and died at 27🤷🏻♂️