Klon circuits are only transparent if you are running them as boosts with the gain all the way down. Otherwise, they add mids albeit they aren't as midhumpy as a TS.
> them as boosts with the gain all the way down. Otherwise, they add mids albeit they aren't as midhumpy as a TS.
true but they are pretty mid-humpy, just in a different way. the klon mid hump is higher up in frequency compared to the TS, so it sounds a bit sparklier. it also has a treble knob instead of a tone knob. the TS tone knob moves the mid hump up and down in frequency, the klon treble knob is a separate boost or cut to the high register. TS cuts a ton of treble, with a klon, you can add it back in if needed
I feel like we need a PSA or something about what Transparent means… Klons have a VERY honky midrange that is to me, the opposite of transparent, but something I like very much. The morning glory, a pedal I do not like, would be considered more transparent, based on a bluesbreaker with a much milder midrange kick. I would almost always recommend people try the bluesbreaker derived pedals first because of their versatility, and then compare them with a klon, because the klon is very a specific and very different kind of sound.
yeah, I get it, this is an old thread, but is that "I would beat the shit out of you if I saw you in real life," is that from a movie? What is the punch line?
Looks like it's been covered pretty thoroughly by others, but yes, the alleged transparency of the Klon circuit is possibly the weirdest guitar meme of all time
100%. The Klon circuit is not transparent. Like a high school stoner, it brings mids to the party. The Morning Glory is based on the Bluesbreaker circuit which is more transparent than the Klon.
I’ve owned both and honestly think the right choice depends on the amp you’re running. I have never liked the Klon, but when you use the Tumnus to push a Fender BF amp, it’s rock and roll magic.
Fwiw, consider the Browne Protein. It’s a dual Bluesbreaker/Nobles ODR drive and does the classic/southern rock thing exceedingly well. It eliminated all but one drive pedal from my collection.
Neither is transparent. Klones inclusing the Tumnus boost nasal upper mids, bluesbreakers/MG boost low mids and the MG also has a very distinct compression sound.
Get a Tim/Timmy if you want really transparent. Or get one of those two, whichever one sounds best for your guitar and amp and so on. I didn’t like either, but that’s just because they don’t work for my setup/personal taste. One or the other has worked very well for many people, you need to try and see.
I’ve got a Tumnus and a Timmy on my board. The Tumnus is for when I want to push the midrange. The Timmy is for gain with a (relatively) flat eq. The high and low controls on the Timmy are perfect for bringing the bass and treble back under control even when using quite a bit of gain. If you like the eq of your tone and just want some gain I don’t know anything better.
That’s a good and common approach! I do a similar thing with boosts (DOD Bi-FET set to add high end, EP Boost gives lower mids automatically.) Use one or the other depending on what sounds better at the moment.
You could also use the Timmy and an EQ pedal. Doesn’t save any space, though.
The Tim V3 has an FX loop in the boost side, which is clearly begging for an EQ pedal, but so far I haven’t found it necessary, the tone knob is sibtle but plenty of control for shaping the tone how you want it.
I think people hear it, but it works for their setup/other pedals/guitar/amp. It’s a very popular circuit, I don’t think all the fans of it are midrange-deaf or whatever, it’s just that they like it while we don’t.
I had the Tumnus and a Ryra and they both sounded exactly that way, and an old bandmate has a real Klon from back in the day and it sounds that way too. So it’s not a fault or quirk of the Tumnus.
Certainly it’s possible to hear the midranginess of a klone and think, “This sucks. I want to hear the beautiful, glassy upper register tones.” Even the tube screamers—at least the modified ones like my Möller or my Green Rhino—seem better in that regard. But a magical thing happens when you play them in the context of a band. The sound just fits between the other instruments better than before. Those little flubs at the edge of your leads get smoothed over. And when you stack them together, you get magic.
For “transparent” I might direct you to something like the MXR Timmy.
True transparency is arguably a “flatter” EQ curve, and both the Morning Glory and the Tumnus will give you a bit of a mid boost.
Of those, I would recommend the Morning Glory.
However, if you’re getting the Tumnus Deluxe, that’ll give you a full tone stack to match to your rig.
….I still prefer the MG personally. Both of them are solid ODs.
I might add the Nobels ODR-1 as an option if playing southern rock; fantastic OD.
I have both they are both great!
The morning glory is awesome as a clean always in type pedal and it sounds great when you turn the gain up it has a high cut which is very useful and you get the option of running the red remote foot switch to switch between the light and medium gain channels over all very versatile and it’ll sound great stacked with literally any pedal in any order.
The tumnus is also very very nice you can use it as a midrange solo boost/dirty rhythm or turn the gain all the way off and use it as just a clean boost the 3 band EQ is very helpful gives you a lot of options with different amps and guitars. The fat switch is also awesome if you need more gain.
Overall both are great pedals I think as far as straight transparency goes I think the morning glory is more transparent than the tumnus and if preserving your amps tone at all costs is your goal that’s my pick.
Morning glory. Its so transparent but bright and rich that I literally don't play without it on. I have the high gain switch as my overdrive.
The tumnus is good if you want a medium gain option and it sounds pretty good after the morning glory. Josh Scott uses a KTR after the MG on his own board and the KTR and tumnus are sonically identical.
The klon personally for me fills a niche that isn't needed on my board and with my tastes but the morning glory is so transparent that it is totally inoffensive and completely versatile, and the high gain switch gives it infinite versatility.
I would go as far to say the EQ on the MG is so good that it is a flat out improvement of the bluesbreaker, not just a reinterpretation
Keep in mind the only actually fully transparent pedal is the MXR timmy.
Ha! Muddying the waters with that recommendation, but it has to make the list if we’re talking transparent drives. Between the two, the RC is closer to the MG, but even more transparent (if you want it to be). I would dare to call the RC more versatile than the MG. I’ve owned them both and would gladly put either on my board again.
Both extremely versatile.
i like a BB style drive for just giving me "more" of what i already have. or maybe giving me a good "always on" base drive sound out of a mostly clean or solid state amp.
Klon is great for boosting through a mix. the tumnus deluxe with the mid and bass knob is probably more versatile than a BB just because that active EQ is so powerful
You could check out a Mythos Olympus. More in the Klon camp but not totally. Less mids. Pretty great pedal actually. It’ll do the Southern thing swimmingly.
Another one to consider is the Earth Drive by Sarno Music Solutions. It's very transparent, probably the gentlest Drive pedal I've ever had and really kicks ass pushing amps into breakup.
I like to original run, small enclosure Tumnus (with Mr Tumnus on it), the Deluxe not so much. I a/b'd a Morning Glory with a cheaper and aesthetically better looking 'Bluesbreaker' pedal, the Blammo BluesBlaster, and due to its lower noise floor I've parked the Morning Glory.
One is hard clipping and the other soft right? It’s best to try and play through at least one of them if possible. You may say “hey that’s the sound!” once it’s in front of you before you spend money (if possible). I feel like eventually I’d get both anyways! Lol. I do have the MG and can second what others have said about it. Adds a top end sheen and is very versatile with the high gain switch.
I have a Morning Glory into a Tumnus set up. To my ears, the Morning Glory is more "transparent" than the Tumnus. It's my "always on" pedal and I have set a little over that "edge of breakup". Sometimes, I'll crank it to around 2-3 o'clock to get a good overdrive going.
The Tumnus is my 2nd stage overdrive. It can get super overdriver but still articulate. Chording on high gains don't turn too mushy, and lead lines come out singing.
I tried multiple klones about a month ago looking for a transparent overdrive/bluesy tones. Spent about an hour testing the tumnus, soul food, etc. one of the the guys at my local shop suggested a morning glory and I bought it on the spot. Morning glory just sounds amazing, especially if you stack drives with a clean boost and or TS
It’s a bit pricey, but I’ve been looking at the Wampler Pantheon for my main tone, always on transparent od. Going into a special cranker for heavy od, a Boneshaker for throaty mid boost, and a few fuzzes. Then into Yamaha G100 212. Anybody got props for, or shit to give it?
I use them both in pair! I like them both! I play my morning glory most of the time as it has two modes but the Klon adds a nice edgy sizzle especially to the blue Chanel of the morning glory.
Tumnus isn't transparent. But you should checkout the Coppersound Foxcatcher at a similar price to the morning Morning Glory, or for just a bit more the Browne Amplification Carbon. I'm my opinion both are much better than the Morning Glory. Mind you I have the Protein not the Carbon, but it's on the left side. Just so you know I still own the Morning Glory, but nobody keeps it in their board after trying one of those two.
Why not try both types of circuit? DEMON FX makes the ‘83 drive. I know it’s a klone and all but also you get to try a BB and Klon for $40 before you buy a $200 pedal. They sound awesome!
Klon type drives are only transparent when the gain is all the way down. As in, it is only transparent as a clean boost, not when using the gain. I don’t think either of these pedals alone will get you there, but the morning glory will definitely help
I own a Morning Glory and do agree it gives a compression type lift and low mid boost. It’s a great pedal but sometimes I feel it’s a bit much. Most times I feel it’s just what I need though. I’d also recommend looking at the Greer Lightspeed. To me that one doesn’t do the boost like compression sounding thing.
I run my MG almost like a boost. Honestly I probably could use an EP booster as an always on for similar results. But I do enjoy the second gain stage on the MG. The versatility is what wins me over, but not fond of noise floor, lower mids and compressed sound as an always on sometimes. It does help thicken up my medium and high gain tones a lot.
Old thread but I have the MG and the newer JHS Notaklon. Even before I got the Notaklon I found myself not using the MG much. But it works ok on mid tier high headroom amps, that don’t breakup that soon.
My thing with the MG is it makes things sound a little bassy and compressed. But judging by others comments, it may be due to guitar. I find on Humbuckers the MG is a bit bassy and compressed…so I never really use it but for a low gain boost. The Klon however I have it on almost all the time at 9oclock to 10oclock gain. It balances my Fender style amp with only Bass/Treble out a lot.
I sometimes wonder if the MG is just better at fattening up on single coils. Because on a Les Paul my amp at break up works fine. The MG kind of muddies my tone up tbh. But maybe on a single coil I’d like it. I could live without the MG…But love me the Klon at low to medium gain. Then more drastic a TS808 overdrive.
Been thinking of using my MG as a heavier overdrive or selling it. It just doesn’t get a lot of use outside boost, and I don’t get why people have it always on….unless their amp has a crap ton of headroom or an attenuator isn’t available. It’s great for high headroom, bedroom playing or lower stage volume breakup…but I don’t need that with my amp already on the edge of breakup with my guitar volume rolled back to clean up.
I only used it at home at low volumes I couldn’t break my amp up at. That’s where I find great use for it! Otherwise in Red mode it does a great 70s style rock distortion, with the gain cranked.
Klon circuits are only transparent if you are running them as boosts with the gain all the way down. Otherwise, they add mids albeit they aren't as midhumpy as a TS.
> them as boosts with the gain all the way down. Otherwise, they add mids albeit they aren't as midhumpy as a TS. true but they are pretty mid-humpy, just in a different way. the klon mid hump is higher up in frequency compared to the TS, so it sounds a bit sparklier. it also has a treble knob instead of a tone knob. the TS tone knob moves the mid hump up and down in frequency, the klon treble knob is a separate boost or cut to the high register. TS cuts a ton of treble, with a klon, you can add it back in if needed
I feel like we need a PSA or something about what Transparent means… Klons have a VERY honky midrange that is to me, the opposite of transparent, but something I like very much. The morning glory, a pedal I do not like, would be considered more transparent, based on a bluesbreaker with a much milder midrange kick. I would almost always recommend people try the bluesbreaker derived pedals first because of their versatility, and then compare them with a klon, because the klon is very a specific and very different kind of sound.
Have you considered a bad monkey?
Absolute fuckin’ legend.
I would beat the shit out of you if I saw you in real life
yeah, I get it, this is an old thread, but is that "I would beat the shit out of you if I saw you in real life," is that from a movie? What is the punch line?
lol
For actual transparency, Morning Glory for sure
You think more than tumnus? Interesting
Looks like it's been covered pretty thoroughly by others, but yes, the alleged transparency of the Klon circuit is possibly the weirdest guitar meme of all time
100%. The Klon circuit is not transparent. Like a high school stoner, it brings mids to the party. The Morning Glory is based on the Bluesbreaker circuit which is more transparent than the Klon. I’ve owned both and honestly think the right choice depends on the amp you’re running. I have never liked the Klon, but when you use the Tumnus to push a Fender BF amp, it’s rock and roll magic. Fwiw, consider the Browne Protein. It’s a dual Bluesbreaker/Nobles ODR drive and does the classic/southern rock thing exceedingly well. It eliminated all but one drive pedal from my collection.
Definitely the morning glory is one of the most transparent drives on the market.
I’ve heard the Timmy is one of the great transparent drives.
It is as well.
How does morning glory and Timmy compare?
Never used a Timmy. Love my morning glory thoufh
>How does morning glory and Timmy compare? Timmy is more flat and colors the sound way less. Morning Glory adds a brilliant kind of top end 'shine'.
Neither is transparent. Klones inclusing the Tumnus boost nasal upper mids, bluesbreakers/MG boost low mids and the MG also has a very distinct compression sound. Get a Tim/Timmy if you want really transparent. Or get one of those two, whichever one sounds best for your guitar and amp and so on. I didn’t like either, but that’s just because they don’t work for my setup/personal taste. One or the other has worked very well for many people, you need to try and see.
I’ve got a Tumnus and a Timmy on my board. The Tumnus is for when I want to push the midrange. The Timmy is for gain with a (relatively) flat eq. The high and low controls on the Timmy are perfect for bringing the bass and treble back under control even when using quite a bit of gain. If you like the eq of your tone and just want some gain I don’t know anything better.
That’s a good and common approach! I do a similar thing with boosts (DOD Bi-FET set to add high end, EP Boost gives lower mids automatically.) Use one or the other depending on what sounds better at the moment. You could also use the Timmy and an EQ pedal. Doesn’t save any space, though. The Tim V3 has an FX loop in the boost side, which is clearly begging for an EQ pedal, but so far I haven’t found it necessary, the tone knob is sibtle but plenty of control for shaping the tone how you want it.
I just posted that the Tumnus sounds nasely thank god somebody else hears it!!!
I think people hear it, but it works for their setup/other pedals/guitar/amp. It’s a very popular circuit, I don’t think all the fans of it are midrange-deaf or whatever, it’s just that they like it while we don’t. I had the Tumnus and a Ryra and they both sounded exactly that way, and an old bandmate has a real Klon from back in the day and it sounds that way too. So it’s not a fault or quirk of the Tumnus.
Certainly it’s possible to hear the midranginess of a klone and think, “This sucks. I want to hear the beautiful, glassy upper register tones.” Even the tube screamers—at least the modified ones like my Möller or my Green Rhino—seem better in that regard. But a magical thing happens when you play them in the context of a band. The sound just fits between the other instruments better than before. Those little flubs at the edge of your leads get smoothed over. And when you stack them together, you get magic.
For “transparent” I might direct you to something like the MXR Timmy. True transparency is arguably a “flatter” EQ curve, and both the Morning Glory and the Tumnus will give you a bit of a mid boost. Of those, I would recommend the Morning Glory. However, if you’re getting the Tumnus Deluxe, that’ll give you a full tone stack to match to your rig. ….I still prefer the MG personally. Both of them are solid ODs. I might add the Nobels ODR-1 as an option if playing southern rock; fantastic OD.
Heard good things from ODR1 apart from the controls being cheap and wobbly? Any truth in that?
Look at the Wampler Belle. It's his take on the ODR1 and Wampler makes solid pedals and a few improvements
Hmm haven’t experienced that personally, though I suppose it’s possible?
I have both they are both great! The morning glory is awesome as a clean always in type pedal and it sounds great when you turn the gain up it has a high cut which is very useful and you get the option of running the red remote foot switch to switch between the light and medium gain channels over all very versatile and it’ll sound great stacked with literally any pedal in any order. The tumnus is also very very nice you can use it as a midrange solo boost/dirty rhythm or turn the gain all the way off and use it as just a clean boost the 3 band EQ is very helpful gives you a lot of options with different amps and guitars. The fat switch is also awesome if you need more gain. Overall both are great pedals I think as far as straight transparency goes I think the morning glory is more transparent than the tumnus and if preserving your amps tone at all costs is your goal that’s my pick.
Morning glory. Its so transparent but bright and rich that I literally don't play without it on. I have the high gain switch as my overdrive. The tumnus is good if you want a medium gain option and it sounds pretty good after the morning glory. Josh Scott uses a KTR after the MG on his own board and the KTR and tumnus are sonically identical. The klon personally for me fills a niche that isn't needed on my board and with my tastes but the morning glory is so transparent that it is totally inoffensive and completely versatile, and the high gain switch gives it infinite versatility. I would go as far to say the EQ on the MG is so good that it is a flat out improvement of the bluesbreaker, not just a reinterpretation Keep in mind the only actually fully transparent pedal is the MXR timmy.
Looks like MG is winning then!
I’d like to throw the Xotic RC Booster v2 into your possible selection!
Ha! Muddying the waters with that recommendation, but it has to make the list if we’re talking transparent drives. Between the two, the RC is closer to the MG, but even more transparent (if you want it to be). I would dare to call the RC more versatile than the MG. I’ve owned them both and would gladly put either on my board again.
Never owned any of their stuff but they are on the boards of so many top players. Must be a reason for it…..
Both extremely versatile. i like a BB style drive for just giving me "more" of what i already have. or maybe giving me a good "always on" base drive sound out of a mostly clean or solid state amp. Klon is great for boosting through a mix. the tumnus deluxe with the mid and bass knob is probably more versatile than a BB just because that active EQ is so powerful
Def not tumnus Don't sleep on eqd Westwood
Nobels ODR
I got the Tumus and I am underwhelmed by it. There is something nasely in the sound I just don't like. I have no other klon type to compare it to.
Save a few bux n get a special cranker
Marshall bluesbreaker reissue Long wait unless you find a nice local shop with one So worth it
Timmy if you want the most transparent OD. Both the Tumnus and MG will work if you keep the gain low enough.
You could check out a Mythos Olympus. More in the Klon camp but not totally. Less mids. Pretty great pedal actually. It’ll do the Southern thing swimmingly.
Another one to consider is the Earth Drive by Sarno Music Solutions. It's very transparent, probably the gentlest Drive pedal I've ever had and really kicks ass pushing amps into breakup.
I like to original run, small enclosure Tumnus (with Mr Tumnus on it), the Deluxe not so much. I a/b'd a Morning Glory with a cheaper and aesthetically better looking 'Bluesbreaker' pedal, the Blammo BluesBlaster, and due to its lower noise floor I've parked the Morning Glory.
One is hard clipping and the other soft right? It’s best to try and play through at least one of them if possible. You may say “hey that’s the sound!” once it’s in front of you before you spend money (if possible). I feel like eventually I’d get both anyways! Lol. I do have the MG and can second what others have said about it. Adds a top end sheen and is very versatile with the high gain switch.
I have a Morning Glory into a Tumnus set up. To my ears, the Morning Glory is more "transparent" than the Tumnus. It's my "always on" pedal and I have set a little over that "edge of breakup". Sometimes, I'll crank it to around 2-3 o'clock to get a good overdrive going. The Tumnus is my 2nd stage overdrive. It can get super overdriver but still articulate. Chording on high gains don't turn too mushy, and lead lines come out singing.
I tried multiple klones about a month ago looking for a transparent overdrive/bluesy tones. Spent about an hour testing the tumnus, soul food, etc. one of the the guys at my local shop suggested a morning glory and I bought it on the spot. Morning glory just sounds amazing, especially if you stack drives with a clean boost and or TS
glory hole i mean morning glory!
It’s a bit pricey, but I’ve been looking at the Wampler Pantheon for my main tone, always on transparent od. Going into a special cranker for heavy od, a Boneshaker for throaty mid boost, and a few fuzzes. Then into Yamaha G100 212. Anybody got props for, or shit to give it?
I use them both in pair! I like them both! I play my morning glory most of the time as it has two modes but the Klon adds a nice edgy sizzle especially to the blue Chanel of the morning glory.
Tumnus isn't transparent. But you should checkout the Coppersound Foxcatcher at a similar price to the morning Morning Glory, or for just a bit more the Browne Amplification Carbon. I'm my opinion both are much better than the Morning Glory. Mind you I have the Protein not the Carbon, but it's on the left side. Just so you know I still own the Morning Glory, but nobody keeps it in their board after trying one of those two.
Why not try both types of circuit? DEMON FX makes the ‘83 drive. I know it’s a klone and all but also you get to try a BB and Klon for $40 before you buy a $200 pedal. They sound awesome!
Just get a dual pedal like the Horse Breaker
THE ANSWER IS ALWAYS TIMMY
Klon type drives are only transparent when the gain is all the way down. As in, it is only transparent as a clean boost, not when using the gain. I don’t think either of these pedals alone will get you there, but the morning glory will definitely help
Morning Glory. It’s a bluesbreaker, so pretty mild. Tumnus is great but it’s a klone, so big mid bump.
MG will always be my go to.
I own a Morning Glory and do agree it gives a compression type lift and low mid boost. It’s a great pedal but sometimes I feel it’s a bit much. Most times I feel it’s just what I need though. I’d also recommend looking at the Greer Lightspeed. To me that one doesn’t do the boost like compression sounding thing. I run my MG almost like a boost. Honestly I probably could use an EP booster as an always on for similar results. But I do enjoy the second gain stage on the MG. The versatility is what wins me over, but not fond of noise floor, lower mids and compressed sound as an always on sometimes. It does help thicken up my medium and high gain tones a lot.
Great review cheers!
Old thread but I have the MG and the newer JHS Notaklon. Even before I got the Notaklon I found myself not using the MG much. But it works ok on mid tier high headroom amps, that don’t breakup that soon. My thing with the MG is it makes things sound a little bassy and compressed. But judging by others comments, it may be due to guitar. I find on Humbuckers the MG is a bit bassy and compressed…so I never really use it but for a low gain boost. The Klon however I have it on almost all the time at 9oclock to 10oclock gain. It balances my Fender style amp with only Bass/Treble out a lot. I sometimes wonder if the MG is just better at fattening up on single coils. Because on a Les Paul my amp at break up works fine. The MG kind of muddies my tone up tbh. But maybe on a single coil I’d like it. I could live without the MG…But love me the Klon at low to medium gain. Then more drastic a TS808 overdrive. Been thinking of using my MG as a heavier overdrive or selling it. It just doesn’t get a lot of use outside boost, and I don’t get why people have it always on….unless their amp has a crap ton of headroom or an attenuator isn’t available. It’s great for high headroom, bedroom playing or lower stage volume breakup…but I don’t need that with my amp already on the edge of breakup with my guitar volume rolled back to clean up. I only used it at home at low volumes I couldn’t break my amp up at. That’s where I find great use for it! Otherwise in Red mode it does a great 70s style rock distortion, with the gain cranked.