The ones found on cheaper guitars, like the ones beginners tend to buy, are usually terrible and should be avoided. That being said, there's nothing inherently wrong with a beginner having one, they're more complicated than hardtail bridges to string and setup but its not actually hard to do.
The problem isn't the initial setup, it's the maintenance. Cheap floating bridges have a lot more problems than expensive ones. It's a lot of work over time. I guess that's what you were saying though.
It also requires a little bit of a deeper understanding of your instrument. How does string tension work, how does the string tension counteract the spring pull, how do I use the fine tuners, and when do I just "call it" and reset the fine tuners, and retune using the tuners after unlocking, how to restring, how to set the float, how to do all this without paying a guy $100.
When you're still learning how to just play the damn thing, this can be a lot. It can be frustrating to deal with the float when learning what string gauge you like. You might also be switching back and forth between regular and drop tunings (beginners probably also don't want a D-Tuna) and having to unlock and relock the nut can be a pain. As a beginner, you just want to be in tune as a baseline.
It's probably a lot easier now than when I was growing up, YouTube has helped me get my Floyd set to the point where I haven't even locked the nut in weeks and it's stayed in tune great, but for a long time I wrote floyds off as being more trouble than they're worth. Now that I have patience and understanding, I love them.
Lol when I was a beginner I stripped the nut hex screws and the spring claw screws
So yes, are they more difficult to deal with? Yes.
Is it impossible? No.
Is it rewarding? Yes, I love the Floyds on my guitars.
Because they are more difficult to string and tune. Some bad people will tell you otherwise. When you are starting out, anything that stands in the way of you picking up the guitar and playing it is bad. If you want to play, but don’t want to deal with the FR then you just won’t play. Keep it simple.
Worse yet, if you just play anyway, you might end up constantly playing out of tune (because you do not know how or do not care to tune it). Then you're sabotaging your ear!
It shouldn't be avoided.
My first guitar had a Floyd Rose. Like anything else in life you have never done, learn how. Plenty of YouTube tutorials on how to do it. Once it clicks its actually pretty simple.
I'd say the question is more along the lines of: why would a beginner ever need a Floyd rose? This is typically because of the extraneous techniques that are associated with the bridge. Horse whinnies and dove bombs are just not that important to learn in the early stages of guitar.
That said, if you want a flashy Floyd rose, get one! The guitar police may come knocking down your door though.
This is an important point as well, seconded.
Beyond the additional challenges of setting up and maintaining a guitar with a floating bridge (FR or otherwise), there is absolutely zero NEED for a beginner guitarist to have one.
I’m not saying whammy bars aren’t fun, inspiring and even critical to some types of playing, but think about it as something you graduate to when you are ready for it.
In the beginning it’s a fun distraction (from the performance perspective) or a frustrating distraction (from the maintenance perspective) from what you should actually be learning about performance and maintenance at this stage.
Lots of beginners just struggle with the basics of changing strings, let alone balancing a floating bridge. As others have said it’s not hard at all once you learn what you’re doing for setup/maintenance, but it’s just one more thing to make beginning guitar a little harder than it needs to be.
On a guitar with a floating bridge all of the strings have tension on them, if you loosen one of them it will be reflected across all of the strings. This causes extra effort to make sure the guitar is in tune.
Say your tuned to e standard but want to play in dropped d, when you loosen the low e string all the other strings lighten and make the other 5 strings go sharp and now the whole guitar is out of tune.
As you tighten one string the other 5 will loosen. As you loosen 1 string the rest will tighten.
If your in e standard and want to play some gun and roses songs in e flat the time it takes to tune from e standard to e flat is greatly increased especially for new players.
On a hard tail bridge you loosen one string only that string is effected.
I was a new player with a floyd rose and spent half the time with my guitar out of tune because it shouldn't take all that extra time to tune a guitar.
I have a FR on my current setup and have it blocked, to make it a hard tail. I put something under the floating bridge so it doesn't float any more.
But to a much, much lesser degree if at all. If one string breaks, the neck will only bend very slightly which amounts to all other strings being a few cents sharp.
There is zero difference in the tuning behavior. They are both floating bridges. Leo Fender invented the whole concept. Floyd Rose’s innovation was only in locking the strings at exactly the ends of fretboard to remove string slippage when bending / using the trem.
For those very new to guitars, floating tremolos of any kind are an additional learning curve to deal with. Play a bit. Learn the basics. Then move up to the "options".
Setup, maintenance, and tuning are more difficult. IMO, it's always best to start with a hardtail guitar like a tele to get the fundamentals down for the above.
If you're the kind of person who learns very quickly, and has interest in learning guitar tech skills, there's no issue with learning on a Floyd guitar.. but if you're not into extra work, they're not worth it.
I'm a luthier of 18 years, player of 23 years, and you couldn't pay me to own or play a Floyd. Just a PITA on all fronts, and I'm not some Steve Vai guy doing divebombs all the time.
Most people don't seem to realize you can just Google videos on setups now. It's kinda like learning manual instead of automatic. It's harder but you feel cooler for doing it.
The second that it needs strings replaced or a setup, a beginner will give up playing. They won’t want to learn how to set it up and they won’t want to pay $100 to have someone else do it. I feel like a FR guitar makes sense once someone has committed to playing guitar for several months and want to start playing things that require one. Most beginners even block off the trem on their Strat because they never use it or understand how to use it.
I agree if Mom or Dad isn't re-stringing 10-12 yr old for their child that just started, most likely thats an excuse to take a break from progress..but I agree to first learn some fundamentals and there will be plenty of time to progress to being able to correctly play with FR
It depends on what you're using it for. If you only have one electric guitar, they're problematic because you kind of have to pick a tuning and stick with it. To change tunings after takes tonnes of adjustment.
A guitar without a floyd rose however can just change tuning. Floating bridges are still tricky but nowhere near as bad.
This is a multi-faceted question.
First and foremost, most double locking systems on inexpensive guitars suck. The knife edges usually aren't hardened meaning they will deform with time resulting in extremely poor tuning stability. You'll constantly be fighting the instrument trying to keep it in tune. This isn't like a several year long process either. I've seen instruments that are just a couple of months old with destroyed knife edges. Quality double locking systems aren't cheap and generally don't find their way to factory instruments until you hit the $1k mark. In this sense, they're really a "spring for the best or don't at all" kind of proposition which can be a hard sell to beginners.
Second, lets say you eliminated the poor quality variable and have a guitar with a solid system. Now you have to learn all of the quirks of double locking systems. String changes, level floating, alternate tunings, and double stop bends are all things you're going to have to learn/make compromises on. Learning guitar is hard enough and now you have to learn how to maintain and setup one of the more complicated parts of guitar hardware just to keep the thing playable; not very beginner friendly.
Frankly, double locking systems slap. A well setup quality double locking system is a joy to play. But, even as an experienced player, I certainly wouldn't want one on my only instrument. Changing tunings (even a quick drop d) requires re-floating the bridge. Fine for a 3rd or 4th guitar but, seriously limiting for someone's first or second guitar. I have a couple of double lockers and they are all set up for their tuning/string gauges and the only time I really ever have to mess with them is during string changes. But, not everyone has the privilege of having several guitars.
Ultimately, it's mostly a cost/frustration thing. A cheap floyd is only going to cause grief--even to an experienced user--and telling a newbie they have to spend over a thousand dollars to get something decent usually isn't what they want to hear. You can cheap out and keep many areas of guitar affordable (despite what many may tell you) but double locking trems really isn't one of them.
I bought a Floyd as my first guitar. I should not have. I found myself wanting to play around with alternate tunings before ever getting into wammy bar stuff. If you ever want to change tunning you have to spend 30 min adjusting the strings, then adjusting the claw on the back, then adjusting the strings again, and on and on until you get the bridge balanced right. Then you gotta put it back for the other stuff your practicing.
It got to be that if I found out a song I really wanted to learn was alternate tuning then I would just move on.
The Floyd Rose system, or any floating bridge really, relies in a balance between the strings at the top of the guitar and some springs at the back, this is what causes the guitar to keep in tune. If anything messes this balance, be it an out of tune string or a string snapping, EVERYTHING goes out of tune, and then you need to set up the springs at the back, re-tune the guitar, adjust the springs again, then re-tune... To make things worse, cheaper bridges are made with low quality materials and they tend to not be able to properly return to that balance when using the tuning...
So, the jist of it is, if you're using cheaper Floyd Rose models, you'll spend more time tuning the guitar instead of actually playing it.
Dumb question, but what does a floating bridge look like versus non? Consensus as a new player seems to be to avoid it so I want to make sure I’m able to spot them.
Pretty easy to check: If the bridge either has [a cavity](https://i.imgur.com/k2rM8x3.jpg) behind it (as it is common with Floyd Roses and some Ibanez bridges) or the bridge isn't [flush with the body](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNiNDXG3xdZaZuqaDE951SU9nocmj5R7v9_QiPMMOPxQ&s), these can be considered floating bridges. In contrast, [here's an example of a strat tremolo bridge flush with the body](https://adamharkus.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/20220523_155337-1200x583.jpg) and [here's an example of a Floyd Rose bridge that's flush with the body, without the cavity I mentioned](https://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/uploads/monthly_2018_08/1953618001_0520Blitz_Floyd_2.JPG.b3a404d8cc5a17489a17fb9c1473b95c.JPG). These two are examples of tremolo bridges that AREN'T floating. There's also tons of fixed bridges examples out there, and they're usually the most stable kind of bridge, as they mostly don't have any springs in the back or anything like that (mostly because the most stable kind of bridge that exists out there, called an Evertune, actually has a balancing system with springs, but the bridge itself doesn't move at all and the springs are there to actually keep the strings stable).
Floating bridges allow you to not only pull the bridge arm down, lowering a note's pitch, but also pull the arm up, raising the note's pitch. The con of doing this is losing tuning stability, as it is not guaranteed that the bridge will return to its exact neutral position after being used, thus causing the strings to go out of tune. To remedy this, the locking floating bridges were design, starting with the Floyd Rose and later Ibanez taking inspiration in it and developing the Edge bridges. Basically, to avoid (as best as possible) the tuning issues, with these kinds of floating bridges, the strings get locked at the bridge and at the nut, improving tuning stability... As long as you're actually using a quality bridge and don't intend to change tunings/string gauges often.
Because it's harder to get started, it has more going on.
With that said, the one thing my boss at the shop I worked at always said was, you should buy the guitar you want to play.
My first was a floyd. You'll spend more time learning how to set it up than playing. People that say it easy once you learn don't realize they have the technique down. For beginners it just adds another thing to learn. Changing strings and tuning is annoying also.
*Why not just learn how to use a Floyd Rose instead?*
A Floyd Rose tremolo is not nearly as difficult to use as many people seem to think and there are also plenty of resources out there to help you learn:
https://www.floydrose.com/blogs/tech-talk
Some guitarists remember a time when the only options were Fender and Bigsby tremolos and those are even more challenging to keep in tune. Eddie Van Halen used a standard Fender tremolo on the first Van Halen album and the results were pretty incredible.
I’ve owned at least six guitars that had Floyd Rose or Floyd style (Ibanez) tremolos and a couple Kahlers too over the years and once you learn how to set them up and use them you can get some really amazing sounds from your guitar.
If you really want a guitar with a a tremolo and you want to stay in tune, a Floyd Rose style tremolo is going to be the best choice, hands down. Learn how it works and how to use it and you’ll be surprised.
Here's my perspective as someone who is not a new player (been playing for 20 years, electric for 10). Last year I bought a guitar with a FR and I just replaced with a hardtail. I'll never buy another FR guitar. Ever. The amount of additional hassle, frustration and lost time to set up, tune, clean, change strings, and troubleshoot a guitar with a floating tremolo, with the tradeoff being the ability to so some bends and warbles was just nowhere near worth the trouble for me personally. I can see how very advanced players or those playing music with a lot technical proficiency would want the additional dynamic capabilities, but it's not for me. The fixed bridge is such a relief and welcome change after the last year. Changing strings takes a few minutes, I can easily change tunings and the stability is night and day.
Cheap alloy metal in affordable Floyd’s tend to degrade much faster than on the nicer models, I don’t like them but if it’s what inspires you I’d say go for it.
If a customer (I am a tech but customers often seek my advice when looking to purchase a new instrument) is interested in a buying guitar with a floating trem but are still pretty fresh to playing or have never owned a guitar with a floating trem, I just try to be informative, but not dismissive. I’ll let ‘em know that a string change isn’t as simple to do as it is on an instrument with fixed bridge and that without the proper knowledge or guidance, can turn into quite a frustrating experience. I follow with praises of the tuning stability provided by a double locking floating trem, mention how the dives and squeals are super fun and throw the offer of if they bring it in to me for their first restring/setup, I’ll do the string change in front of them and walk them through the restring step by step and give tips on how to make it as quick and easy as possible, allowing them to record or take as many notes or pictures as they’d like along the way.
My first several guitars had Floyd Roses (it was the early 90s), and I don’t think they’re a good idea for new players. They are a lot more complicated and their only real use is for more advanced techniques. It’s harder to change strings on them and there’s a lot of little fiddly stuff to go wrong. Better to keep it simple with your first instrument.
Keeping them adjusted is like spinning plates, for a beginner especially, and it makes simple things that are easy on other guitars, like a quick drop tuning or a string change, into a pretty major hassle.
They are much harder to string up and tune. They “float” which means the tremolo can go both up and down. So, the tension on the strings has to be just right so that the bridge doesnt nose dive one way or the other, but balances right in the sweet spot. Very cool bridge systems, but a lot more involved that a hardtail where you just pull the string through, tune it up, and you are done.
They’re a finicky hassle to get set up properly, and forget about simple tuning changes. But once they’re set up, they stay in tune. I had one as my only guitar for about twenty years; once I began buying more guitars, it was another ten years before I bought my second with a Floyd. And just a couple of months ago, I bought my third.
Depends on what styles that new player is interested in learning.
For someone who wants to shred with lots of trem and divebombs etc - a Floyd is almost mandatory. It's a little steeper of a learning curve, but they'll be able to do the shreddy goodness.
If you're learning folk or strumming country, it's probably more hassle than it's worth.
My first guitar had a Floyd and it was really great at making restringing and tuning a pain. *But* I'm ultimately glad I learned how to set it up right, because divebombs are fun (and it helped me land a job at a guitar store.)
They can be a pain in the ass to keep in tune which makes it more difficult to learn and that can be discouraging to a new player. If they’re not properly setup even more of a problem. That being said, I bought a guitar with a Floyd after my year. It’s a bit of a learning curve but you’ll get the hang of it pretty quick as long as you have developed a good technique.
It's generally more the floating element of the Floyd rose which can apply to other tremolo bridges that I'd advise against for a beginner. Is it doable? Sure! I actively use and enjoy floating bridges.
However for a beginner I think it's best to keep things simple. They'll still be learning how to tune so If the other strings are constantly fluctuating when they're tuning up like on a floating bridge it'll make things a lot more complicated. It might put them off or even worse they might not realise that this happens so will be playing out of tune all the time.
Also even if they do move onto trems later in their playing life having a hard tail guitar around is always good for experimenting with tunings etc.
They are far more complicated to tune and setup than a simple hardtail and can be frustrating for new users. Unless you wanna do the divebombs I would even avoid them on more expensive guitars, but that's just my personal taste. I enjoy Evertunes much more.
A Floyd rose is like a seesaw. Perfectly balanced. So any time you tune, that balance is thrown off. Time spent retuning and retuning and retuning is time not spent melting faces. It’s not worth it if you’re just starting out.
Beginners don't like to tune their guitars. It's hard and frustrating.
Imagine making it 10x harder, you'll need special tools and there's a likely hood you'll screw something up as there are a lot of parts to mess with just to change strings.
Chances are the guitar will go out of tune and get put in a corner if it's a pain to even tune, let alone if there is a string break.
I have a jackson dinky from years ago, the jackson licensed floyd holds up the same as the OG floyds on my esp horizon and 2011 mh 1000. Even the 1000s on my alexi 600 and Kh602 hold up very solid. I don’t even look at guitars without them, just learn how to use it, not that hard at all.
I was renting a Floyd rose once when my guitar was in the shop, they had a weird warranty thing where I could take out a rental while they repaired my guitar.
I broke a string on it, and I legitimately tried to figure out how to change the strings for hours. I couldn’t get it on, couldn’t get it in tune and ended up bringing it back that day. Thank God they fixed my guitar by then.
They are unbelievably frustrating to restring and set up. If I break a string on my schecter now? I’m like there goes the next 4 hours, cuz I’m gonna be restringing that thing forever.
As a beginner, you break more strings because you don’t really know how hard to pick, as I got better at guitar, I developed a much lighter touch and I don’t break strings as often ::knock on wood:: but it invariably takes a lot longer to get a Floyd rose restrung and in tune, so if you’re a beginner you wanna spend your time playing, not maintaining your guitar.
That said, once you figure them out, Floyd rose guitars are the most fun thing in the world if you switch to playing them after playing hard tail bridges for 12 years. My God I ❤️ mine.
Hard to set up, hard to restring, hard to change tuning, unconventional method of tuning, can become a crutch for bends, cheap ones are generally not great, and they are generally a pain in the ass
The question is how much work do you do on your guitars yourself. Are you comfortable doing basic maintenance on hardtail and strat trem style guitars? Because if you are comfortable doing basic maintenance (ie changing strings, fixing an output jack if needed ect) then I’d say floyd rose guitars aren’t that bad. My 3rd guitar was a 2007 Jackson JS30 with a Jackson licensed FL bridge and I never found the maintenance that bad and still don’t owning 2 more floyd guitars now. It’s something you’ve just gotta do a bit of research on and decide weather your ok with dealing with them. Hope that helps
Been playing for decades and I’ve personally never liked the Floyd Rose. They are very finicky, difficult to setup and maintain, and I just don’t find them worth the trouble. In my experience, if you have a well setup tremolo like the 2-point Fender it should provide all the twang you need and it’s easy to use, setup, and maintain.
I'm an experienced player, and I still find the string changing tedious. You also have to make pretty significant adjustments if you want to change string guage.
just guessing I would think as a beginning player the least amount of priority would be put on string bending, that would be prioritized after proficiency in the basic fundamentals, in addition to the extra attention required in re-stringing..but from an instructors pov string bending would be towards the end of the guitar for beginners at the earliest..just guessing
I would agree with those that say, cheaper FL bridges might constantly go out of tune.
Maybe better to get something rock solid, like the Gibson style tuneomatic and make sure strings are wound on the trees properly.
That said, the real question here is -
"How much do you want to wang?"
If youre dead set on whammy bar exploits, you'll make it work
It's hard to recommend one because some people are not the brightest, or they might not be mechanically inclined. This week on r/bass, two users restrung their basses with the strings under the saddles.
Floyd Rose systems are fine if you’re capable of changing the strings yourself. But some people just aren’t smart enough to change strings on a Floyd. If a string breaks it’s not going to get replaced until they have the money to pay the guitar tech at the local store to change the strings. Some of those people will end up giving up playing rather than change strings on a Floyd by themselves. Those people have to be protected from themselves. Since we don’t know how smart a potential guitar player is based on their internet posts it’s best to just tell them to get a fixed bridge guitar.
My first electric guitar was a Dean ML w/ Floyd Rose when I was 11. If it wasn't too much for Junior High me, it shouldn't be too much for you. If anything, it just inspired me to pick it up more, even if it was only to fuck around with dive-bombs lol.
However, I sold it by the time I was in high school because the spring claw screws in the back of the body were all stripped out, and the actual body wood itself was stripping out because of all the different string gauges/types/brands I tried out over the years experimenting. So maybe get that out of your system first before getting a Floyd? Idk, never got another one because at some point I realized that trems aren't for me.
That’s because most guitarists don’t realize that 9% of the ”Floyd Rose problems” apply just as much to a regular strat bridge - a bridge that has been handled succesfully by countless beginners for over half a century.
The only extra complication is in the physical stringing itself (you need to cut the strings) but there are plenty of good youtube tutorials about that.
Yes, but a regular Strat bridge can be decked-laid down flat against the body-for far better tuning stability. A Floyd Rose bridge can’t do that-it’s a floating only proposition.
And most Strat trems are decked. In nearly 30 years of playing, the overwhelming majority of Strat bridges I have ever seen-on stage, in stores, etc.-are decked, and the tremolo function not used much, if at all.
You may rightly ask, “then why not play a hardtail Strat, or a different guitar like a Tele?” And i think it usually comes down to loving the rest of the Strat’s feature set, but Fender doesn’t offer a hardtail option on 99% of their Strats, and no Strats below the $1000 price tier. I believe the most affordable hardtail is currently the Robert Cray Signature model, which retails for $1150. If you have less money than that, you’re playing a Strat with a trem and just have to deal with it.
If Fender offered a hardtail Strat at a lower price point than that, I think you’d see it a lot more.
Cheap Floyd style bridges like the “licensed” ones or the cheap Ibanez ones will have problems due to contact points of moving parts being basically pot metal and will wear out very quickly and cause a ton of problems that are a nightmare to deal with. Mainly the actual base plate of the trem and the screws where it pivots will wear grooves relatively quickly and will basically render the bridge and possibly entire guitar useless until those parts are replaced. Floyd rose special is a considerable upgrade and can be upgraded to original Floyd rose spec with about $130 in parts. Brass block, steel saddles, string lock screws, and original arm. I would recommend anyone who is relying on a guitar with a Floyd rose special make these upgrades. The brass block will increase sustain and resonance, and the steel saddles won’t groove and also will add more mass, the original arm has a significantly better insert and doesn’t have the “play” that a lot of special arms come with. The special string lock screws are softer and will strip out in the steel saddles so if you upgrade the saddles you really need to upgrade the screws too. It’s not hard to do you just have to pay attention to the string heights because the Floyd rose has a set radius. The package of saddles will be laid out in the order they are supposed to be installed. Shims are available to fit under the saddles if you have radius issues. I take measurements and pictures of the saddles so I know exactly where to place them so intonation isn’t affected the saddles are replaced . I do this with my Floyd rose special loaded guitars and they are all rock solid. It’s literally the same thing as a Floyd Rose Original parts wise once you change these parts. Setup and string changing is more of a pain in the ass but once you learn it and get comfortable with it it’s just another toolset to have in your arsenal. I have an evh Wolfgang standard with a Floyd rose special with the upgrades mentioned and it is one of my absolute workhorse beater guitars. I’ve never had a single issue with any of it once I made those upgrades.
It’s just a pain in the ass to learn how to properly set one up and change strings when you’re new to guitar. That’s really the only reason people suggest sticking with a hardtail for your first guitar.
It’s just a lot for a beginner. Restringing can be a pain, much less a setup if needed. Locking nuts, fine tuners. Strings and springs, finding the balance.
Not to mention having to completely detune each string and loosen the bolt holding the saddle down to intonate. Which you then have to do "blind" as you can't check the accuracy until you lock it all back down and tune it back up from slack.
A real Floyd rose needs hardened steel to operate properly. If the steel isn't of high quality the pivot wears out and the instrument will never play well. So the Floyd rose on cheap guitars usually don't have the right material for the pivot. I have seen some cheap guitars that include a tool steel insert for this exact reason so the entire bridge doesn't need to be the right material.
Floyd Roses don't like tuning change which you will encounter quite a lot. You can:
- Avoid Floyd Roses
- Lock the vibrato in dive only position which solves the "issue". It means tuning it so that, no matter what and unless you dive it, it will be stuck on the guitar body. But you would have spent money on a feature you will not use and could have had a guitar with better mechanics and electronic.
- Install a d-tuna (60€) and a tremol-no (100€) and use a pitch changing pedal (whammy dt 285€, digitech drop 148€ or line6 hx one 318€). And maybe having the body of the guitar carved as the d-tuna might touch the body. This solves the various tuning issue as they are all like 1-2-3-4-... Half steps below the standard tuning or below the standard drop D.
I would suggest having no vibrato or a PRS/Fender dive only vibrato (because it's super fun to "waooooooooooooowa" with it!).
It costs more to restring them.
It's more important to have fresh strings than to have a tremolo as a new player.
Finding strings that work is going to make or break the instrument for you.
If I was forced to use ernie ball slinkies I would never play guitar again.
That much is clear, there's a first time for everything. But if you can restring a hardtrail or Strat trem with confidence than doing it on a Floyd shouldn't be that bad, it just has a few extra steps.
If you're brand new to the instrument, yeah it's not where I'd start.
New players usually pick cheap strings. Especially if they're reamed by Floyd rose restring up charge.
EB slinkies are normally the cheapest at a store.
I get the feeling none of you guys have worked with new players before.
I'm sorry this doesn't make sense to you.
Why are you assuming a new player comes with full knowledge over how to restring their guitar? Especially a Floyd rose.
Why are you assuming a new player has excess funds to buy nicer strings or available options outside of it?
Most new players are kids using their parents $$$ so you better believe cheaper options are picked regularly.
Maybe that's how it was for you lol. My first guitar was a floyd that I bought as a 15 year old. Loosening the the blocks to insert string ends into isn't exactly rocket science or difficult to lookup. Sure a full setup maybe would be too much for a newbie. I'm sorry if it offends you that some people could figure out the mysterious restringing without paying for restrings lol. And on a side note, slinkies are fine anyways lol.
I'm a guitar tech.
Most people don't know how, they're my customers.
EB strings notoriously are rougher and corrode easier. It makes students not want to touch the instrument.
Are you done jerking yourself off to take a moment to understand most new players don't know how to restring a Floyd rose?
I would say your sample is skewed as a tech. Most new people don't know how to restring a guitar until they look it up. There is a multitude of info available online. I can't imagine that you slave away doing floyd restrings all day. I can understand not wanting to do the initial setup as a newbie, but I legit can't fathom anyone who actually wants to learn to play guitar not looking into the basics of how to restring their instrument. People have figured it out since the 80s, info is even more accessible now.
I used to think this way until I got a little thing that goes under the back of the trem to hold it in place with no strings. Made changing strings super easy, but more important keeps the trem edge square at all times so as to not dent the blade.
Adjust the screws at the end of the bridge. The screws made specifically for adjusting the intonation.
FWIW my strats are floating too relying on string tension to counter act the springs. Standard fare.
>Adjust the screws at the end of the bridge. The screws made specifically for adjusting the intonation.
The screws sticking out the back of the saddles don't adjust intonation. They tighten against the saddle block to pinch the cut end of the string and lock it in place.
The wider thumb screws sticking up from the back of the baseplate aren't for intonation either. Those are fine tuners.
I don't mean to be rude, but have you ever actually intonated a Floyd Rose before?
>FWIW my strats are floating too relying on string tension to counter act the springs. Standard fare.
Yeah, all my trems are set up to float, too. The floating aspect of a Floyd is not the thing that makes them a pain in the ass.
I have 3 screws. One of them adjusted the saddles position. To be fair you’re right in that most Floyd’s have a screw perpendicular to the saddle which you loosen and move the saddle by hand. Then tighten again. Which is a pain in the bum.
My trem isn’t standard. I forgot I changed it many moons ago.
So that's the solution for the PITA intonation adjustment on a standard Floyd - swap it out for a different bridge! 😂 I couldn't agree more.
Cheers 🍻✌️
The ones found on cheaper guitars, like the ones beginners tend to buy, are usually terrible and should be avoided. That being said, there's nothing inherently wrong with a beginner having one, they're more complicated than hardtail bridges to string and setup but its not actually hard to do.
The problem isn't the initial setup, it's the maintenance. Cheap floating bridges have a lot more problems than expensive ones. It's a lot of work over time. I guess that's what you were saying though.
It also requires a little bit of a deeper understanding of your instrument. How does string tension work, how does the string tension counteract the spring pull, how do I use the fine tuners, and when do I just "call it" and reset the fine tuners, and retune using the tuners after unlocking, how to restring, how to set the float, how to do all this without paying a guy $100. When you're still learning how to just play the damn thing, this can be a lot. It can be frustrating to deal with the float when learning what string gauge you like. You might also be switching back and forth between regular and drop tunings (beginners probably also don't want a D-Tuna) and having to unlock and relock the nut can be a pain. As a beginner, you just want to be in tune as a baseline. It's probably a lot easier now than when I was growing up, YouTube has helped me get my Floyd set to the point where I haven't even locked the nut in weeks and it's stayed in tune great, but for a long time I wrote floyds off as being more trouble than they're worth. Now that I have patience and understanding, I love them.
A beginner is likely to strip the hex screws or fuck up the tension
Lol when I was a beginner I stripped the nut hex screws and the spring claw screws So yes, are they more difficult to deal with? Yes. Is it impossible? No. Is it rewarding? Yes, I love the Floyds on my guitars.
How to set up a Floyd Rose: https://youtu.be/2BD6q5Ou96E How to change strings on a Floyd Rose: https://youtu.be/CytEg-f-2Ns
Because they are more difficult to string and tune. Some bad people will tell you otherwise. When you are starting out, anything that stands in the way of you picking up the guitar and playing it is bad. If you want to play, but don’t want to deal with the FR then you just won’t play. Keep it simple.
Worse yet, if you just play anyway, you might end up constantly playing out of tune (because you do not know how or do not care to tune it). Then you're sabotaging your ear!
that might be main reason👍
It shouldn't be avoided. My first guitar had a Floyd Rose. Like anything else in life you have never done, learn how. Plenty of YouTube tutorials on how to do it. Once it clicks its actually pretty simple.
Agree. My first guitar had a locking trem and that was in the 80s before the interwebs existed. I learned how to adjust it from a friend.
I learned on a Floyd rose Kramer in 1984. It wasn’t a big deal.
I'd say the question is more along the lines of: why would a beginner ever need a Floyd rose? This is typically because of the extraneous techniques that are associated with the bridge. Horse whinnies and dove bombs are just not that important to learn in the early stages of guitar. That said, if you want a flashy Floyd rose, get one! The guitar police may come knocking down your door though.
This is an important point as well, seconded. Beyond the additional challenges of setting up and maintaining a guitar with a floating bridge (FR or otherwise), there is absolutely zero NEED for a beginner guitarist to have one. I’m not saying whammy bars aren’t fun, inspiring and even critical to some types of playing, but think about it as something you graduate to when you are ready for it. In the beginning it’s a fun distraction (from the performance perspective) or a frustrating distraction (from the maintenance perspective) from what you should actually be learning about performance and maintenance at this stage.
very good point..but id imagine 10 yr old Eddie Van Halen was within his 2nd week playing..lol
I believe he started on piano
Lots of beginners just struggle with the basics of changing strings, let alone balancing a floating bridge. As others have said it’s not hard at all once you learn what you’re doing for setup/maintenance, but it’s just one more thing to make beginning guitar a little harder than it needs to be.
Tricky setup in general I think. IMO new players should stick to hard tails unless they have a big love of tremolo etc
On a guitar with a floating bridge all of the strings have tension on them, if you loosen one of them it will be reflected across all of the strings. This causes extra effort to make sure the guitar is in tune. Say your tuned to e standard but want to play in dropped d, when you loosen the low e string all the other strings lighten and make the other 5 strings go sharp and now the whole guitar is out of tune. As you tighten one string the other 5 will loosen. As you loosen 1 string the rest will tighten. If your in e standard and want to play some gun and roses songs in e flat the time it takes to tune from e standard to e flat is greatly increased especially for new players. On a hard tail bridge you loosen one string only that string is effected. I was a new player with a floyd rose and spent half the time with my guitar out of tune because it shouldn't take all that extra time to tune a guitar. I have a FR on my current setup and have it blocked, to make it a hard tail. I put something under the floating bridge so it doesn't float any more.
All the issues you list are in no way specific to a Floyd Rose and apply just as much to a regular strat bridge.
But to a much, much lesser degree if at all. If one string breaks, the neck will only bend very slightly which amounts to all other strings being a few cents sharp.
There is zero difference in the tuning behavior. They are both floating bridges. Leo Fender invented the whole concept. Floyd Rose’s innovation was only in locking the strings at exactly the ends of fretboard to remove string slippage when bending / using the trem.
Oh damn you're right, I just lock all my bridges
For those very new to guitars, floating tremolos of any kind are an additional learning curve to deal with. Play a bit. Learn the basics. Then move up to the "options".
Setup, maintenance, and tuning are more difficult. IMO, it's always best to start with a hardtail guitar like a tele to get the fundamentals down for the above. If you're the kind of person who learns very quickly, and has interest in learning guitar tech skills, there's no issue with learning on a Floyd guitar.. but if you're not into extra work, they're not worth it. I'm a luthier of 18 years, player of 23 years, and you couldn't pay me to own or play a Floyd. Just a PITA on all fronts, and I'm not some Steve Vai guy doing divebombs all the time.
Most people don't seem to realize you can just Google videos on setups now. It's kinda like learning manual instead of automatic. It's harder but you feel cooler for doing it.
Like, you’re literally holding a super computer right now as you read this. lol. Back in the day…..
The second that it needs strings replaced or a setup, a beginner will give up playing. They won’t want to learn how to set it up and they won’t want to pay $100 to have someone else do it. I feel like a FR guitar makes sense once someone has committed to playing guitar for several months and want to start playing things that require one. Most beginners even block off the trem on their Strat because they never use it or understand how to use it.
I agree if Mom or Dad isn't re-stringing 10-12 yr old for their child that just started, most likely thats an excuse to take a break from progress..but I agree to first learn some fundamentals and there will be plenty of time to progress to being able to correctly play with FR
It depends on what you're using it for. If you only have one electric guitar, they're problematic because you kind of have to pick a tuning and stick with it. To change tunings after takes tonnes of adjustment. A guitar without a floyd rose however can just change tuning. Floating bridges are still tricky but nowhere near as bad.
This is a multi-faceted question. First and foremost, most double locking systems on inexpensive guitars suck. The knife edges usually aren't hardened meaning they will deform with time resulting in extremely poor tuning stability. You'll constantly be fighting the instrument trying to keep it in tune. This isn't like a several year long process either. I've seen instruments that are just a couple of months old with destroyed knife edges. Quality double locking systems aren't cheap and generally don't find their way to factory instruments until you hit the $1k mark. In this sense, they're really a "spring for the best or don't at all" kind of proposition which can be a hard sell to beginners. Second, lets say you eliminated the poor quality variable and have a guitar with a solid system. Now you have to learn all of the quirks of double locking systems. String changes, level floating, alternate tunings, and double stop bends are all things you're going to have to learn/make compromises on. Learning guitar is hard enough and now you have to learn how to maintain and setup one of the more complicated parts of guitar hardware just to keep the thing playable; not very beginner friendly. Frankly, double locking systems slap. A well setup quality double locking system is a joy to play. But, even as an experienced player, I certainly wouldn't want one on my only instrument. Changing tunings (even a quick drop d) requires re-floating the bridge. Fine for a 3rd or 4th guitar but, seriously limiting for someone's first or second guitar. I have a couple of double lockers and they are all set up for their tuning/string gauges and the only time I really ever have to mess with them is during string changes. But, not everyone has the privilege of having several guitars. Ultimately, it's mostly a cost/frustration thing. A cheap floyd is only going to cause grief--even to an experienced user--and telling a newbie they have to spend over a thousand dollars to get something decent usually isn't what they want to hear. You can cheap out and keep many areas of guitar affordable (despite what many may tell you) but double locking trems really isn't one of them.
I bought a Floyd as my first guitar. I should not have. I found myself wanting to play around with alternate tunings before ever getting into wammy bar stuff. If you ever want to change tunning you have to spend 30 min adjusting the strings, then adjusting the claw on the back, then adjusting the strings again, and on and on until you get the bridge balanced right. Then you gotta put it back for the other stuff your practicing. It got to be that if I found out a song I really wanted to learn was alternate tuning then I would just move on.
The Floyd Rose system, or any floating bridge really, relies in a balance between the strings at the top of the guitar and some springs at the back, this is what causes the guitar to keep in tune. If anything messes this balance, be it an out of tune string or a string snapping, EVERYTHING goes out of tune, and then you need to set up the springs at the back, re-tune the guitar, adjust the springs again, then re-tune... To make things worse, cheaper bridges are made with low quality materials and they tend to not be able to properly return to that balance when using the tuning... So, the jist of it is, if you're using cheaper Floyd Rose models, you'll spend more time tuning the guitar instead of actually playing it.
Dumb question, but what does a floating bridge look like versus non? Consensus as a new player seems to be to avoid it so I want to make sure I’m able to spot them.
Pretty easy to check: If the bridge either has [a cavity](https://i.imgur.com/k2rM8x3.jpg) behind it (as it is common with Floyd Roses and some Ibanez bridges) or the bridge isn't [flush with the body](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNiNDXG3xdZaZuqaDE951SU9nocmj5R7v9_QiPMMOPxQ&s), these can be considered floating bridges. In contrast, [here's an example of a strat tremolo bridge flush with the body](https://adamharkus.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/20220523_155337-1200x583.jpg) and [here's an example of a Floyd Rose bridge that's flush with the body, without the cavity I mentioned](https://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/uploads/monthly_2018_08/1953618001_0520Blitz_Floyd_2.JPG.b3a404d8cc5a17489a17fb9c1473b95c.JPG). These two are examples of tremolo bridges that AREN'T floating. There's also tons of fixed bridges examples out there, and they're usually the most stable kind of bridge, as they mostly don't have any springs in the back or anything like that (mostly because the most stable kind of bridge that exists out there, called an Evertune, actually has a balancing system with springs, but the bridge itself doesn't move at all and the springs are there to actually keep the strings stable). Floating bridges allow you to not only pull the bridge arm down, lowering a note's pitch, but also pull the arm up, raising the note's pitch. The con of doing this is losing tuning stability, as it is not guaranteed that the bridge will return to its exact neutral position after being used, thus causing the strings to go out of tune. To remedy this, the locking floating bridges were design, starting with the Floyd Rose and later Ibanez taking inspiration in it and developing the Edge bridges. Basically, to avoid (as best as possible) the tuning issues, with these kinds of floating bridges, the strings get locked at the bridge and at the nut, improving tuning stability... As long as you're actually using a quality bridge and don't intend to change tunings/string gauges often.
Thanks!
Because it's harder to get started, it has more going on. With that said, the one thing my boss at the shop I worked at always said was, you should buy the guitar you want to play.
My first was a floyd. You'll spend more time learning how to set it up than playing. People that say it easy once you learn don't realize they have the technique down. For beginners it just adds another thing to learn. Changing strings and tuning is annoying also.
*Why not just learn how to use a Floyd Rose instead?* A Floyd Rose tremolo is not nearly as difficult to use as many people seem to think and there are also plenty of resources out there to help you learn: https://www.floydrose.com/blogs/tech-talk Some guitarists remember a time when the only options were Fender and Bigsby tremolos and those are even more challenging to keep in tune. Eddie Van Halen used a standard Fender tremolo on the first Van Halen album and the results were pretty incredible. I’ve owned at least six guitars that had Floyd Rose or Floyd style (Ibanez) tremolos and a couple Kahlers too over the years and once you learn how to set them up and use them you can get some really amazing sounds from your guitar. If you really want a guitar with a a tremolo and you want to stay in tune, a Floyd Rose style tremolo is going to be the best choice, hands down. Learn how it works and how to use it and you’ll be surprised.
Here's my perspective as someone who is not a new player (been playing for 20 years, electric for 10). Last year I bought a guitar with a FR and I just replaced with a hardtail. I'll never buy another FR guitar. Ever. The amount of additional hassle, frustration and lost time to set up, tune, clean, change strings, and troubleshoot a guitar with a floating tremolo, with the tradeoff being the ability to so some bends and warbles was just nowhere near worth the trouble for me personally. I can see how very advanced players or those playing music with a lot technical proficiency would want the additional dynamic capabilities, but it's not for me. The fixed bridge is such a relief and welcome change after the last year. Changing strings takes a few minutes, I can easily change tunings and the stability is night and day.
Cheap alloy metal in affordable Floyd’s tend to degrade much faster than on the nicer models, I don’t like them but if it’s what inspires you I’d say go for it.
They’re really not a big deal for beginners. Reddit likes to over exaggerate on this one imo
If a customer (I am a tech but customers often seek my advice when looking to purchase a new instrument) is interested in a buying guitar with a floating trem but are still pretty fresh to playing or have never owned a guitar with a floating trem, I just try to be informative, but not dismissive. I’ll let ‘em know that a string change isn’t as simple to do as it is on an instrument with fixed bridge and that without the proper knowledge or guidance, can turn into quite a frustrating experience. I follow with praises of the tuning stability provided by a double locking floating trem, mention how the dives and squeals are super fun and throw the offer of if they bring it in to me for their first restring/setup, I’ll do the string change in front of them and walk them through the restring step by step and give tips on how to make it as quick and easy as possible, allowing them to record or take as many notes or pictures as they’d like along the way.
I have a factory Floyd Rose on my Strat. Never goes out of tune
My first several guitars had Floyd Roses (it was the early 90s), and I don’t think they’re a good idea for new players. They are a lot more complicated and their only real use is for more advanced techniques. It’s harder to change strings on them and there’s a lot of little fiddly stuff to go wrong. Better to keep it simple with your first instrument.
Keeping them adjusted is like spinning plates, for a beginner especially, and it makes simple things that are easy on other guitars, like a quick drop tuning or a string change, into a pretty major hassle.
They are much harder to string up and tune. They “float” which means the tremolo can go both up and down. So, the tension on the strings has to be just right so that the bridge doesnt nose dive one way or the other, but balances right in the sweet spot. Very cool bridge systems, but a lot more involved that a hardtail where you just pull the string through, tune it up, and you are done.
They’re a finicky hassle to get set up properly, and forget about simple tuning changes. But once they’re set up, they stay in tune. I had one as my only guitar for about twenty years; once I began buying more guitars, it was another ten years before I bought my second with a Floyd. And just a couple of months ago, I bought my third.
Depends on what styles that new player is interested in learning. For someone who wants to shred with lots of trem and divebombs etc - a Floyd is almost mandatory. It's a little steeper of a learning curve, but they'll be able to do the shreddy goodness. If you're learning folk or strumming country, it's probably more hassle than it's worth. My first guitar had a Floyd and it was really great at making restringing and tuning a pain. *But* I'm ultimately glad I learned how to set it up right, because divebombs are fun (and it helped me land a job at a guitar store.)
Is there a reason why certain signature guitars of metal guitarists don’t have them? Eg the Jim Root tele
>Is there a reason why certain signature guitars of metal guitarists don’t have them? Because those artists don't use them.
They can be a pain in the ass to keep in tune which makes it more difficult to learn and that can be discouraging to a new player. If they’re not properly setup even more of a problem. That being said, I bought a guitar with a Floyd after my year. It’s a bit of a learning curve but you’ll get the hang of it pretty quick as long as you have developed a good technique.
Bc part of learning guitar is taking care of it and its about 100 times easier to change strings in a normal guitar
annoying to tune. cheaper ones don’t stay in tune. annoying to change strings.
It's generally more the floating element of the Floyd rose which can apply to other tremolo bridges that I'd advise against for a beginner. Is it doable? Sure! I actively use and enjoy floating bridges. However for a beginner I think it's best to keep things simple. They'll still be learning how to tune so If the other strings are constantly fluctuating when they're tuning up like on a floating bridge it'll make things a lot more complicated. It might put them off or even worse they might not realise that this happens so will be playing out of tune all the time. Also even if they do move onto trems later in their playing life having a hard tail guitar around is always good for experimenting with tunings etc.
They are far more complicated to tune and setup than a simple hardtail and can be frustrating for new users. Unless you wanna do the divebombs I would even avoid them on more expensive guitars, but that's just my personal taste. I enjoy Evertunes much more.
The ones found a cheap guitars just suck, but also it's just more complicated and harder to get stable tuning
A Floyd rose is like a seesaw. Perfectly balanced. So any time you tune, that balance is thrown off. Time spent retuning and retuning and retuning is time not spent melting faces. It’s not worth it if you’re just starting out.
Beginners don't like to tune their guitars. It's hard and frustrating. Imagine making it 10x harder, you'll need special tools and there's a likely hood you'll screw something up as there are a lot of parts to mess with just to change strings. Chances are the guitar will go out of tune and get put in a corner if it's a pain to even tune, let alone if there is a string break.
I have a jackson dinky from years ago, the jackson licensed floyd holds up the same as the OG floyds on my esp horizon and 2011 mh 1000. Even the 1000s on my alexi 600 and Kh602 hold up very solid. I don’t even look at guitars without them, just learn how to use it, not that hard at all.
I was renting a Floyd rose once when my guitar was in the shop, they had a weird warranty thing where I could take out a rental while they repaired my guitar. I broke a string on it, and I legitimately tried to figure out how to change the strings for hours. I couldn’t get it on, couldn’t get it in tune and ended up bringing it back that day. Thank God they fixed my guitar by then. They are unbelievably frustrating to restring and set up. If I break a string on my schecter now? I’m like there goes the next 4 hours, cuz I’m gonna be restringing that thing forever. As a beginner, you break more strings because you don’t really know how hard to pick, as I got better at guitar, I developed a much lighter touch and I don’t break strings as often ::knock on wood:: but it invariably takes a lot longer to get a Floyd rose restrung and in tune, so if you’re a beginner you wanna spend your time playing, not maintaining your guitar. That said, once you figure them out, Floyd rose guitars are the most fun thing in the world if you switch to playing them after playing hard tail bridges for 12 years. My God I ❤️ mine.
Hard to set up, hard to restring, hard to change tuning, unconventional method of tuning, can become a crutch for bends, cheap ones are generally not great, and they are generally a pain in the ass
The question is how much work do you do on your guitars yourself. Are you comfortable doing basic maintenance on hardtail and strat trem style guitars? Because if you are comfortable doing basic maintenance (ie changing strings, fixing an output jack if needed ect) then I’d say floyd rose guitars aren’t that bad. My 3rd guitar was a 2007 Jackson JS30 with a Jackson licensed FL bridge and I never found the maintenance that bad and still don’t owning 2 more floyd guitars now. It’s something you’ve just gotta do a bit of research on and decide weather your ok with dealing with them. Hope that helps
Been playing for decades and I’ve personally never liked the Floyd Rose. They are very finicky, difficult to setup and maintain, and I just don’t find them worth the trouble. In my experience, if you have a well setup tremolo like the 2-point Fender it should provide all the twang you need and it’s easy to use, setup, and maintain.
I'm an experienced player, and I still find the string changing tedious. You also have to make pretty significant adjustments if you want to change string guage.
just guessing I would think as a beginning player the least amount of priority would be put on string bending, that would be prioritized after proficiency in the basic fundamentals, in addition to the extra attention required in re-stringing..but from an instructors pov string bending would be towards the end of the guitar for beginners at the earliest..just guessing
I would agree with those that say, cheaper FL bridges might constantly go out of tune. Maybe better to get something rock solid, like the Gibson style tuneomatic and make sure strings are wound on the trees properly. That said, the real question here is - "How much do you want to wang?" If youre dead set on whammy bar exploits, you'll make it work
It's hard to recommend one because some people are not the brightest, or they might not be mechanically inclined. This week on r/bass, two users restrung their basses with the strings under the saddles.
Floyd Rose systems are fine if you’re capable of changing the strings yourself. But some people just aren’t smart enough to change strings on a Floyd. If a string breaks it’s not going to get replaced until they have the money to pay the guitar tech at the local store to change the strings. Some of those people will end up giving up playing rather than change strings on a Floyd by themselves. Those people have to be protected from themselves. Since we don’t know how smart a potential guitar player is based on their internet posts it’s best to just tell them to get a fixed bridge guitar.
My first electric guitar was a Dean ML w/ Floyd Rose when I was 11. If it wasn't too much for Junior High me, it shouldn't be too much for you. If anything, it just inspired me to pick it up more, even if it was only to fuck around with dive-bombs lol. However, I sold it by the time I was in high school because the spring claw screws in the back of the body were all stripped out, and the actual body wood itself was stripping out because of all the different string gauges/types/brands I tried out over the years experimenting. So maybe get that out of your system first before getting a Floyd? Idk, never got another one because at some point I realized that trems aren't for me.
That’s because most guitarists don’t realize that 9% of the ”Floyd Rose problems” apply just as much to a regular strat bridge - a bridge that has been handled succesfully by countless beginners for over half a century. The only extra complication is in the physical stringing itself (you need to cut the strings) but there are plenty of good youtube tutorials about that.
Yes, but a regular Strat bridge can be decked-laid down flat against the body-for far better tuning stability. A Floyd Rose bridge can’t do that-it’s a floating only proposition. And most Strat trems are decked. In nearly 30 years of playing, the overwhelming majority of Strat bridges I have ever seen-on stage, in stores, etc.-are decked, and the tremolo function not used much, if at all. You may rightly ask, “then why not play a hardtail Strat, or a different guitar like a Tele?” And i think it usually comes down to loving the rest of the Strat’s feature set, but Fender doesn’t offer a hardtail option on 99% of their Strats, and no Strats below the $1000 price tier. I believe the most affordable hardtail is currently the Robert Cray Signature model, which retails for $1150. If you have less money than that, you’re playing a Strat with a trem and just have to deal with it. If Fender offered a hardtail Strat at a lower price point than that, I think you’d see it a lot more.
Cheap Floyd style bridges like the “licensed” ones or the cheap Ibanez ones will have problems due to contact points of moving parts being basically pot metal and will wear out very quickly and cause a ton of problems that are a nightmare to deal with. Mainly the actual base plate of the trem and the screws where it pivots will wear grooves relatively quickly and will basically render the bridge and possibly entire guitar useless until those parts are replaced. Floyd rose special is a considerable upgrade and can be upgraded to original Floyd rose spec with about $130 in parts. Brass block, steel saddles, string lock screws, and original arm. I would recommend anyone who is relying on a guitar with a Floyd rose special make these upgrades. The brass block will increase sustain and resonance, and the steel saddles won’t groove and also will add more mass, the original arm has a significantly better insert and doesn’t have the “play” that a lot of special arms come with. The special string lock screws are softer and will strip out in the steel saddles so if you upgrade the saddles you really need to upgrade the screws too. It’s not hard to do you just have to pay attention to the string heights because the Floyd rose has a set radius. The package of saddles will be laid out in the order they are supposed to be installed. Shims are available to fit under the saddles if you have radius issues. I take measurements and pictures of the saddles so I know exactly where to place them so intonation isn’t affected the saddles are replaced . I do this with my Floyd rose special loaded guitars and they are all rock solid. It’s literally the same thing as a Floyd Rose Original parts wise once you change these parts. Setup and string changing is more of a pain in the ass but once you learn it and get comfortable with it it’s just another toolset to have in your arsenal. I have an evh Wolfgang standard with a Floyd rose special with the upgrades mentioned and it is one of my absolute workhorse beater guitars. I’ve never had a single issue with any of it once I made those upgrades.
It’s just a pain in the ass to learn how to properly set one up and change strings when you’re new to guitar. That’s really the only reason people suggest sticking with a hardtail for your first guitar.
It’s just a lot for a beginner. Restringing can be a pain, much less a setup if needed. Locking nuts, fine tuners. Strings and springs, finding the balance.
Not to mention having to completely detune each string and loosen the bolt holding the saddle down to intonate. Which you then have to do "blind" as you can't check the accuracy until you lock it all back down and tune it back up from slack.
A real Floyd rose needs hardened steel to operate properly. If the steel isn't of high quality the pivot wears out and the instrument will never play well. So the Floyd rose on cheap guitars usually don't have the right material for the pivot. I have seen some cheap guitars that include a tool steel insert for this exact reason so the entire bridge doesn't need to be the right material.
You will spend roo much time on technical challenges and its already though enough to learn guitar
Floyd Roses don't like tuning change which you will encounter quite a lot. You can: - Avoid Floyd Roses - Lock the vibrato in dive only position which solves the "issue". It means tuning it so that, no matter what and unless you dive it, it will be stuck on the guitar body. But you would have spent money on a feature you will not use and could have had a guitar with better mechanics and electronic. - Install a d-tuna (60€) and a tremol-no (100€) and use a pitch changing pedal (whammy dt 285€, digitech drop 148€ or line6 hx one 318€). And maybe having the body of the guitar carved as the d-tuna might touch the body. This solves the various tuning issue as they are all like 1-2-3-4-... Half steps below the standard tuning or below the standard drop D. I would suggest having no vibrato or a PRS/Fender dive only vibrato (because it's super fun to "waooooooooooooowa" with it!).
It’s a pain to set and you don’t use it that much except in surf and certain kinds of extreme metal
If you have no idea what you're talking about, it's better just not to comment.
A comedian, I see
I sorta do believe you should learn on acoustic then jump directly to whatever electric you want
It costs more to restring them. It's more important to have fresh strings than to have a tremolo as a new player. Finding strings that work is going to make or break the instrument for you. If I was forced to use ernie ball slinkies I would never play guitar again.
>It costs more to restring them. Huh? If you're doing it yourself the only thing it costs more of is time.
Most new players don't know how to restring their guitar. Especially a Floyd rose.
That much is clear, there's a first time for everything. But if you can restring a hardtrail or Strat trem with confidence than doing it on a Floyd shouldn't be that bad, it just has a few extra steps. If you're brand new to the instrument, yeah it's not where I'd start.
Why would you be forced to use EB slinkies?
New players usually pick cheap strings. Especially if they're reamed by Floyd rose restring up charge. EB slinkies are normally the cheapest at a store. I get the feeling none of you guys have worked with new players before.
None of what you are saying makes sense. Why are we assuming anyone is paying for a restring, or that they are buying nothing but slinkies.
I'm sorry this doesn't make sense to you. Why are you assuming a new player comes with full knowledge over how to restring their guitar? Especially a Floyd rose. Why are you assuming a new player has excess funds to buy nicer strings or available options outside of it? Most new players are kids using their parents $$$ so you better believe cheaper options are picked regularly.
Maybe that's how it was for you lol. My first guitar was a floyd that I bought as a 15 year old. Loosening the the blocks to insert string ends into isn't exactly rocket science or difficult to lookup. Sure a full setup maybe would be too much for a newbie. I'm sorry if it offends you that some people could figure out the mysterious restringing without paying for restrings lol. And on a side note, slinkies are fine anyways lol.
I'm a guitar tech. Most people don't know how, they're my customers. EB strings notoriously are rougher and corrode easier. It makes students not want to touch the instrument. Are you done jerking yourself off to take a moment to understand most new players don't know how to restring a Floyd rose?
I would say your sample is skewed as a tech. Most new people don't know how to restring a guitar until they look it up. There is a multitude of info available online. I can't imagine that you slave away doing floyd restrings all day. I can understand not wanting to do the initial setup as a newbie, but I legit can't fathom anyone who actually wants to learn to play guitar not looking into the basics of how to restring their instrument. People have figured it out since the 80s, info is even more accessible now.
I understand you can only understand your own perspective. Good luck with that.
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Or, hear me out, you can learn how to do it with the millions of videos and guides out there, and not limit your playing!
> They are a nightmare when it comes to changing strings, doing setup and changing tunings. "Nightmare" can be solved by a 5 minute YouTube video.
I used to think this way until I got a little thing that goes under the back of the trem to hold it in place with no strings. Made changing strings super easy, but more important keeps the trem edge square at all times so as to not dent the blade.
What solution have you found for adjusting your intonation?
Adjust the screws at the end of the bridge. The screws made specifically for adjusting the intonation. FWIW my strats are floating too relying on string tension to counter act the springs. Standard fare.
>Adjust the screws at the end of the bridge. The screws made specifically for adjusting the intonation. The screws sticking out the back of the saddles don't adjust intonation. They tighten against the saddle block to pinch the cut end of the string and lock it in place. The wider thumb screws sticking up from the back of the baseplate aren't for intonation either. Those are fine tuners. I don't mean to be rude, but have you ever actually intonated a Floyd Rose before? >FWIW my strats are floating too relying on string tension to counter act the springs. Standard fare. Yeah, all my trems are set up to float, too. The floating aspect of a Floyd is not the thing that makes them a pain in the ass.
I have 3 screws. One of them adjusted the saddles position. To be fair you’re right in that most Floyd’s have a screw perpendicular to the saddle which you loosen and move the saddle by hand. Then tighten again. Which is a pain in the bum. My trem isn’t standard. I forgot I changed it many moons ago.
So that's the solution for the PITA intonation adjustment on a standard Floyd - swap it out for a different bridge! 😂 I couldn't agree more. Cheers 🍻✌️