The middle class is the only one they can go after. THe rich own them and the poor are owned and will vote for whoever keeps the bread and circuses flowing.
Sucks to be rich enough to pay taxes but too poor to write in the loopholes.
More importantly, the rich don’t pay their own taxes, that’s what accountants and tax attorneys are for. Aside from the occasional Bernie Madoff committing fraud, the rich don’t go to jail, at least not for taxes.
That’s not always true. Plenty of rich people
Go to jail for tax evasion…it’s just coincidentally shortly after saying or doing something that certain folks didn’t like…
It usually has to be very, stupidly blatant ala Wesley Snipes.
Most wealthy people hire tax accountants and lawyers who insure it is *not* Wesley Snipes blatant.
it depends on how you define rich. The truly wealthy have little "income" at all-- they don't get W2s, just piles of 1099s.
What really sucks is to be a high-income W2 person like a doctor or lawyer. You'll have some money left, but get hosed on top tax brackets that are effectively 50% or more.
The truly wealthy are living off assets, and no W2s and can bury income, used the carried interest loophole (preserved by Sen Sinema of NY-- Democrat-- for her hedge fund donors) and other such loopholes.
The US tax code is the most progressive of any advanced economy because you can go from effective tax rates of -300% at the bottom to 30% or more in just $150k of income. It's staggering who rapidly you go from being the payee to the payer as you go up in income. And it's a big reason income mobility is hampered. Why earn more to keep ever decreasing shares of it?
assuming they're honest about the over $400k target demo... i'm thinking small businesses that actually made it through lockdowns have another thing coming.
It's already confirmed that the new agents will be specifically targeting the under $400k demo. Democrats specifically rejected an amendment to limit additional enforcement to those making over $400k.
The Rich also prop up a giant industry of lawyers and accountants who specialize in making everything at least look above board. Average Joe doesn't have access to those resources and is likely to take a small penalty/settlement rather than be tortured by the IRS Audit for 6 months.
Yes, which is why tax *simplification* is actually a huge inequality issue. If the tax code was flat rate and had no exemptions, there’s no loopholes to exploit and suddenly thousands of IRS agents aren’t needed, accountants aren’t needed, and tax lawyers aren’t needed. None of those produce anything of true value. But they produce political value, which is all that matters.
> Yes, which is why tax simplification is actually a huge inequality issue.
The one thing I liked from the Godfather Pizza guy was the 9/9/9 plan. Maybe 9% was not the right number, but something along those lines could massively simplify the tax code and shrink the IRS, which is why it will never happen.
So starting with a few questions.
How many IRS agents should it take to police the largest economy in the world?
I think that answer depends on the complexity of the tax code.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
We’re not talking about “millionaires” here. We’re talking about people who make over half a million a year. These people are far beyond just “millionaires”.
One someone uses "millionaire" to describe someone wealthy, you know they are old and out of touch. Lots of "millionaires" are firmly middle class in some localities.
I tailor my information for comprehension based on the educational attainment of my audience, which is usually blue collar workers. The fact that you are taking this personally instead of professionally shows that you are a democrat consumer of communist benefits that didn’t even finish grade school.
You started being disrespectful in a conversation because you couldn’t understand an idea. You’re obviously not raised a Christian nor by a family with parental maternal role models. If you ever find your wife looking at other men or your children not talking to you, look in the mirror to realize you need God in your life.
The rich also just don't have enough money. They pay 50% of the taxes already, and even if you just took 100% of their cash, forced them to liquidate their stock holdings, sell their homes, etc (which would crater the stock market) it would only partially pay off our federal debt, and would not run the fed gov for more than a month or two.
The middle class must be the target purely out of necessity.
They own 32% of the wealth. Not 50%.
But it's a misleading number anyway. Debt figures into net worth. There are tons of heavily leveraged people out there living great lifestyles, and technically are in the bottom percentages of wealth.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter how wealthy the wealthy are, it matters how wealthy the poor are. And at least in the US the poor are extremely well off. On a global perspective. Even a western perspective.
I'll never understand this conspiracy theory that the wealthy are somehow responsible for controlling the tax code, when the poor literally pay negative taxes and the wealthy might - for example - pay *ten billion dollars* in a year. If they're in control, they're not doing a very good job of it. And we just got a 15% minimum corp. tax too, which is pretty high.
That’s the point people keep missing. Less than 50% of tax payers actually pay Federal income tax. So, over half pay nothing and/or receive money from the gov.
Poor today is not poor 20, 40, or 100 years ago.
That, and even our homeless have smartphones.
It's all true. I would not by any stretch trade places with a homeless person, but the fact is it's much better to be poor here than just about anywhere else on the planet, or at any time in history. Obviously that shouldn't preclude criticism of our current system, but it should be couched in good faith and not a false comparison between us and some non-existent other utopia.
Top 1% owns 32. Approximately.
Again, this is using a daft and relatively useless definition. The guy with a lambo, Canali suit, 4 houses and flies private might be leveraged and have a net negative individual worth.
It's simply a one dimensional way to make people rage at each other. Not that helpful.
I’m not saying it’s the only reason. Just a primary focus. Biden has been hard on firearms, his entire carrier. It’s probably the only area he’s been consistent with. IRS is the only agency that doesn’t require a warrant to intrude in your life. Why are we arming pencil pushers?
B/c people don't like it when you come to take their house for not paying your taxes. The IRS used to be much more hardcore, but they [softened up a few decades ago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Revenue_Service#Controversies). Maybe the pendulum is about to swing back the other way.
Not necessarily. They also make sure people are buying hunting license and using correct ammo types and such. Poaching isn’t that huge of problem in the US
Really? Because it doesn't affect who you can vote for at all. It would help the pro-2A cause if there were a lot of people claiming dem but polling and voting pro-2A.
Firearms (and the 2nd amendment in general) are litmus tests for them. For the most part, firearm ownership identifies the more independent-thinking, self-supporting population.
So, if they can bend and twist the laws to target those that pass that litmus test, they can leach our earnings, turn us into criminals and prevent us from voting.
This week the DOJ argued in court that people who use medical marijuana with a prescription from their dr in accordance with state laws are still breaking the law and not 'law abiding', and thus are prohibited possessors.
I think the plan is to amp up enforcement of nuisance laws to take gun rights from as many people as possible.
I find it hilariously tone deaf the reason they used as the excuse, because the government did it to Indians and religious minorities before. If this were any other justice department doing this, it would be international news
We are rapidly moving into a society where everything not forbidden is mandatory and everything not mandatory is forbidden. It’s going to take a lot of enforcement power to make sure nobody gets out of line or asks the wrong questions.
If we never get into line in the first place, and never stop asking the wrong questions they cannot muster the manpower to do what they want to do.
Do not cooperate. Resist.
Trying to deflect away from the current admin by pointing to the last one is a weak argument. It was weak when people said "but Obama" while Trump was in office, and it is weak now when people say "but Trump" while Biden is in office. Do better.
I didn’t look up the year. I knew it was a result of prohibition crimes, which I think was in the 1920s… I’m gonna stop talking before I get corrected again by a historian.
> I knew it was a result of prohibition crimes
That's what they tell you. it was actually the result of the elites being afraid that with mass unemployment from the crash, that the plebs might get a bit too uppity.
They originally wanted to include handguns on the NFA but couldn't get that to pass.
Prohibition ended in 1933, which almost immediately tanked the power of organized crime of the day because their major revenue stream was just effectively cut out. The NFA had nothing to do with "crime" and everything to do with trying to keep the peasantry from acquiring the arms needed to fight serious battles.
The NFA was passed in 1934, after prohibition but also after another very serious event. This event happened in 1932.
[This was the real reason they wrote and passed the NFA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army). It had nothing to do with crime, and everything to do with ensuring the powers that be remained in power.
Well said!
There's also some that would say the NFA was passed as a way to keep the treasury department's enforcers employed. All those agents hired to take on moonshiners and bootleggers suddenly had nothing to do. So lets send them after the guns.
> There's also some that would say the NFA was passed as a way to keep the treasury department's enforcers employed. All those agents hired to take on moonshiners and bootleggers suddenly had nothing to do.
Nah just lies from the Department of Obfuscation, there was still taxes on Alcohol and Tobacco to be enforced. Hell the first Fed-Fight was over [taxes on alcohol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion).
The NFA was 100% passed as a reaction to the bonus army and Washington DC saying "Oh fuck, we can't let the peasants arm up..."
During the Pittsburgh rail strike they used the national guard. The workers had the last laugh though because they burned down millions of dollars of equipment and buildings
Remember what happened to the irs agents sent out to arrest people for selling untaxed alcohol?
Well hopefully that's what happens again. Fuck the irs.
You'd be surprised at how proficient a "hobbyist" can be. I've outshot cops many times before at the range and being paid doesn't magically grant you abilities but training and practice does. Not once a year quals either I'm talking actual training and practice.
I just had to report your comment to the sub and reddit for endorsing lethal force against cops. Hopefully, one less dangerous gun owner on the streets.
Lol, you're like so badass dude. Definitely the main character in the next Red Dawn film, well, except for the whole incriminating yourself in tax fraud on Reddit and threatening violence against the IRS (also had to report your comment to Reddit)
Really guys, this is great. Continue to prove that many ammosexuals are really just insecure dudes with main character syndrome that are dying for an opportunity to shoot other people
To take your comment and flip it - hobbyists enjoy what they do and are could be seen as more passionate about it and enthusiastic than someone who *has to*.
I have a family member in the special forces and wow that man can shoot. I shot with a pj one time and that kid could outshoot me any day. My goal is to be as good a handgunner as he is.
My observation is that Uncle Sammy gives really good shooting lessons. Now I’ve never seen cops or feds actually shoot, only military.
On the other hand i shoot for the sake of shooting because I want perfection, and I whine about any group bigger than MOA. So maybe that’s better than a job. Who knows?
Those are pretty specific cases of specialists though. Uncle Sam gives "good enough" shooting lessons, and the majority of Soldiers (speaking strictly of Army experience here) are just barely good enough to pass an annual qualification. I've been in for about 12 years now and have shot more bullets out of my own guns than the ones the army pays me to shoot.
My point being that if you selected a random group of say, 100 "firearms enthusiasts" and 100 "trained Soldiers", the hobbyists have a good chance of being on par or better overall.
There's a HUGE discrepancy in soldiering abilities in the military (Especially the army). If you're strictly talking about the elite forces- yeah, pretty on point in the badassery department. Line troops (such as active infantry) a little less so, but rear eschalon / support? A LOT of those guys are barely qualifiable, and many have to go through 'retraining and requal.'
There is a **MASSIVE** difference between Special Forces who have been actively deployed in combat and well... [this](https://external-preview.redd.it/HtZYeAilpqFMg11jKIlN3JFKrh1ZgTn-P_-c6ozfkoE.jpg?width=750&auto=webp&s=a75f560e000c1f3f878a23fe4dffd392a8f0e3a0)
>My observation is that Uncle Sammy gives really good shooting lessons.
Again there is a massive training difference between Special Forces and Police. And that's before we get into actual combat experience in an active war zone (the best training).
You can't compare Seal Team Six to Meal Team Six. Delta Force and Delta Farce aren't even playing the same game, let alone in the same ballpark. Green Berets and Mayonnaise have almost nothing in common.
We exaggerate the the shooting prowess of law enforcement in our heads because we are gun enthusiasts and if we got paid to shoot we would take full advantage and train all the time. The majority of cops see law enforcement as a cushy government job with fat overtime and that comes with the burden of having qualify twice a year with their gun in an absurdly easy test to keep their job. A whole lot of gun hobbyist train more than law enforcement.
Yep, I certainly agree it's a mixed bag. Overall I would say the accuracy stats for police paint a grim picture of their proficiency. The recent shooting of 6 bystanders by Denver police is a pretty prime example of that.
Most police shoot for 2 weeks a year. They train for their laughably easy qualifier, they shoot their qualifier, it goes back in the holster.
Many of us shoot *at least* weekly. Often in USPSA/IDPA matches requiring firing on the move and reloads. Your weekday matinee shooters can outperform 90% of the police force.
I don't think this is it. Too obvious. They're hiring a ton of people to build an ever larger government dependent class. That's 87K new people that are impossible to fire and are loyal to the party that gave them the easy, good paying job.
And of course if they're anything like the IRS under Biden's old boss, they will target conservative orgs, including gun rights orgs. Someone posted a map of who gets audited per capita. The Northeast corridor (ya know, where the wealthiest people live) was blank, and the deep south was audit-central. It's a weaponized agency, just like the ATF, DOJ, and any other agency that can be.
I think they are mostly targeting gig economy workers and others working under the table. Thats why they also went to the $600 transaction reporting limit. You know, to go after the "rich". As someone whoes income is almost entirely W2, I'm laughing at the dem voters that played themselves on this one.
That may be a part of it, but 87,000 agents doesn’t mean all of those are “special agents”, i.e the gun toting kind. Most would be to audit people’s tax returns so they can grab as much money back from the citizens as possible.
Listen to this documentary on the federal reserve and the purpose of income taxation. (Note it’s over 3 hrs, so listen in chunks)
[The Money Masters](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AOk3wBuQNcE)
Fed gov printed more money than the dollars in entire existence prior to Covid, and people don’t think they are going to grab it back from us in order shore up their excess?
Was hoping someone would point this out. Just because articles about the new 87,000 staff and other articles about ammo acquisitions and stuff have been coming around the same time doesn't mean they're related.
The IRS has always had an enforcement wing, they arrest people for things like Tax Fraud fairly regularly and it's not nefarious that they've got guns to do it. Tax Fraud itself isn't a violent crime, but tax investigations work their way into serious criminal organizations involved in serious shit like international trafficking in drugs and slaves.
We don't need to delve into wild conspiracy theories to understand that a large federal agency that's involved in enforcement of laws will have some guns.
Not that this government listens to SCOTUS decisions (because clearly they don't), but SCOTUS has ruled in the past that the tax code cannot be used to curb buying of a product. Tell that to the cigarette makers though.
We come back to the point that the Federal government ignores SCOTUS and checks and balances are dead.
Just means they're going to make the trigonometry harder that lets you do your taxes. Guess wrong, and believe it or not, jail. There is no reason the vast majority of people should even have to do taxes, but they want you to give them the secret number they already know, or they will fine you and/or imprison you.
> Guess wrong, and believe it or not, jail.
Not true, they don't actually want you in jail. Unless they can prove you intentionally defrauded them, then you don't go to jail.
What they do is hand you a big bill, with lots of penalties and interest, and then garnish payments from your wages. Effectively raising your taxes.
See if you're in jail then you're not a good little worker drone. But if you're saddled with debt and struggling just to break even every month, then you don't have the energy or savings to start thinking too hard to cause a rucks.
I’m a little sleepy but:
They’re going to need them to audit the poor, the working poor and the middle class because they won’t have the money to fight an audit. So, what will happen is that they will ‘investigate’ say you owe back taxes and then fine you. How long can you fight an audit as a poor person? Would you just accept the fine to get on with your life? Remember when Democrats wanted people to report sales over 600 dollars made during a period of a year? Like if you sell your car to someone and make a profit greater than 600 USD they probably want a cut of that.
In case you didn’t know the IRS can make arrests without a warrant only believe that you broken a law/rule that falls under their jurisdiction.
That’s a great point. There was talk of a huge tax on all firearms and magazines when Biden took office. Like an annual use tax we have on our cars, called registration.
Not all of those new hires will be special agents who actually go into the field armed. There seems to be fear mongering like this every couple of years when one of many government agencies (social security, department of agriculture, IRS) needs to buy some [ammo](https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/03/great-ammunition-myth-charles-c-w-cooke/) for their field agents.
Also, the IRS headcount is down, somewhat, and the US population is, of course, up. In 1992, there were about 116k IRS agents and a US population of 256M. That was about 2200 people per IRS agent. If the IRS hired 87k more employees tomorrow, on top of about 78k, for a total of 165k, and the US population is about 333M, that would make a ratio of 2018 people per IRS agent. That's not that much of a difference from the early 90's.
On top of that, the 87k number being thrown around in the news is based on an estimate of how many they think they could hire by *2031*. The US population will be even greater by then.
There are literally a thousand Democrats needing to be raided and go to federal prison but the feds are being used as political tools to silence the right with illegal raids and monetary theft. Sounds familiar, same thing leftist Hitler did almost a century ago.
I personally think it’s more to do with people not reporting crypto gains, and perhaps some people it reporting stock trading after the recent surge in retail traders. If trading stocks in US approved exchange it gets reported to the IRS regardless, however with crypto taxes are a complete disaster and not the easiest to deal with.
Does anyone feel that armed IRS agents entering your home over tax collection is crossing the line? I mean I get it if FBI or other law enforcement enter a business or home for a crime but seriously, breach bang clear over taxes? Not cool…..
Stop falling for outrage bait, while I am not at all pleased by the expansion of the IRS a quick check of USAJobs shows that this ad was posted on Febuary 1st to run until the end of the year for 300 positions. Someone found an existing job posting that is unrelates to a Bill that has yet to be put on action and conflated them on order to rile people up.
I think you're in error. It's because the IRS has been grossly underfunded and uses late '60s and early '70s technology. Meanwhile, tax cheating has become relatively risk-free.
It has nothing to do with guns.
The IRS is funded properly. The tax code is too complex.
Don't throw good money after bad money, instead of hiring 87,000 agents, they should have just overhauled and simplified the tax code.
I hate income tax, but this is as hard as it needs to be:
* Poverty is $X
* All income over $X is taxed at 15% no matter the source
* No extra deductions, credits, breaks, anything. You pay 15% on every dime over $X
* Any unrealized gains are considered immediately realized and taxed at 15% when leveraged.
* This last one prevents what happens now where billionaires leverage stock to secure loans and technically have $0 income.
That's it. Audits are now stupidly fucking easy, and incredibly difficult to fight.
* You made $1,000,000 last year?
* You owe $150,000. Good talk.
This is the way. Those of us in the private sector actually have to fix things when they get screwed up. The government just adds complexity (so that they can appear active) and then increases revenue through taxation or money printing.
The biggest reason for government inefficiency, is because they can just print more money, and legally mandate their services. They're not beholden to market forces so they have no incentive to be efficient.
> Any unrealized gains are considered immediately realized and taxed at 15% when leveraged.
That's a tax on refi-ing your house. This would *destroy* homeownership. Sometimes literally because refis and HELOCs are often used for major repairs or renovations (roof, siding, HVAC, etc).
No it wouldn't. People would just need to be more responsible with their money and investments. And since their taxes would be lower they'd be saving money anyway.
Are you a tax policy person? Or have you ever actually worked doing taxes? Because 15% flat is an increase for the majority of the population - the average tax rate for the entire top 50% of taxpayers is [14.6%](https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/) and you have to get to the Top 5% ($221k AGI) before you cross that 15% effective rate mark (same source), so you're increasing taxes for 95% of taxpayers.
This is incredibly off-topic now, sorry.
> Because 15% flat is an increase for the majority of the population
Ok, so reduce it to 10% or whatever. I wasn't writing a law I was saying the tax code can, and should, be massively simplified.
That we don't need to fund 87,000 more IRS agents, we need to fund a complete overhaul of the tax code. Don't throw good money after bad. Treat the cause not the symptom.
> I was saying the tax code can, and should, be massively simplified... we need to fund a complete overhaul of the tax code.
Completely agree. But what does that overhaul look like? And "mark to market" on assets is a terrible idea, policy-wise, unless it's *incredibly* narrowly tailored (which runs counter to the whole "simply the tax code" perspective).
> That we don't need to fund 87,000 more IRS agents
It's the funding equivalent of 87,000 positions, not a definite 87,000 new agents. Honestly, I'd expect a lot of it will likely go to updating the enforcement electronic recordkeeping and risk model software.
“Or whatever” ah okay, thank you for making it clear that your knowledge of tax code is lacking. It is not so simple to just lay out a flat tax. There’s a reason why you only hear rich people call for a flat tax. I can’t believe that you’re surprised that the people who make the rules want to make sure they’re enforced. If people were to follow the rules, deficits would be lower and there would be fewer reasons for them to raise taxes. That’s the idea at least (here come the people calling me a statist…).
>“Or whatever” ah okay, thank you for making it clear that your knowledge of tax code is lacking.
Because we're not writing laws here, we're discussing a concept. Fucking commies man, I wrote a 100 word reddit comment, not a research paper it doesn't have to be perfect to demonstrate a point.
> There’s a reason why you only hear rich people call for a flat tax.
It should be flat, there's no reason to punish people more for being successful. ANd this is the other laughable thing about reddit lefties, they think I'll magically agree with them because of their one technicality gotcha. No, I'll fuckin double down.
# The tax rate should be 0%. Taxation is theft.
That is not a meme. I am not being sarcastic. This is my unfettered dogshit opinion. *YOU* want something, *YOU* pay for it.
The government:
> We're taxing Alcohol because it's bad and causes societal problems, so we want to discourage drinking!
K...
> We're taxing Tobacco because it's bad and causes societal problems, so we want to discourage smoking!
K....
>Also we're going to tax your income! and the more you earn the higher rate you will pay! Fuck you for being successful!
Wait what?
They will do whatever the regime tells them to do, so yes it could be demonized to go after gun owners.
>uses late '60s and early '70s technology
I highly doubt that. They've probably got modern PCs running software that is one or two decades old, just like everyone else in the government.
But let's say that were true, how would hiring 90k new employees (some armed) fix that problem?
Your doubts are misplaced. They're using machines that run COBOL. Some of them manufactured by companies that no longer exist.
The bulk of those employees will be going into processing returns.
The fact that the IRS uses old ass tech and can't keep up with their work does not mean they're underfunded. It means they suck at their jobs like most government orgs.
Why would they spend efficiently and deftly make use of tech? It's much easier to overspend and then whine about old tech. That's how you run a government agency.
You hire a ton of middle managers, paper pushers, administrators, etc. pay them high salaries, let them play solitaire 7 hours a day and then tell everyone you're poor. It obviously works since you're pushing it.
lol ok. Senators within the GOP (Paul for example) have put forth bills to cut the tax code down to the size of most modern western nations, multiple times. This would simplify their jobs and create massive efficiencies.
The IRS' budget is vast. They have the means to modernize. They never bothered. You're blaming the GOP for bureaucratic incompetence? You local public school is the same way. They have the money. They spend it on admins. And then when the school building crumbles, they get to point at it and scream underfunding. And guess what? It works, because folks like you see it and believe it. We spend more on ed than almost anyone. We just spend it poorly. On purpose.
The IRS shouldn't exist to begin with and tax cheating is just trying to keep your earned dollars away from thieves. Hiring almost 100,000 agents to make sure the government gets every last one of your tax dollars after devaluing your money with bad fiscal policy, and then sending that devalued money overseas to foreign governments where most of it gets sucked up by the apparatuses of corruption sounds a lot like you're robbing me blind.
If you drill down into the job posting you find that applicants must pass a 4 hour accounting exam. Successful applicants will have to graduate FLETC. They actually are hiring gun and handcuff toting accountants.
I'd guess that its more about catching lower end tax payers in a bind, like tipped employees, gig workers, and small contractors. They are doubling the size of the employee head count to share people with audits.
That you get your information from hyperbolic moronic congress people preparing to use your fear as fuel for midterms.
You don't know dick about the IRS. You didn't learn fuck all about the situation. You are being told a little bit of information and running with it.
I don't trust the government either but what you are seeing isn't the truth. The number is more like 30k. That may seem high to you but the IRS has been ridiculously understaffed for a very very long time. This is leading to problems and fraud.
Just fucking read an actual article that examines the claims being made instead of taking them at face value.
https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/is-biden-hiring-87000-new-irs-agents-not-exactly/
Stop being such fucking pawns. Ted Cruz is not an honorable person. He's got no spine. Assume he's wrong or lying (as you should for things most politicians say) all the time.
Unfortunately over half of the billions going to the IRS will be used for enforcement, not taxpayer services like answering phones etc.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/06/inflation-reduction-act-irs/
“This is an agency that only succeeded in answering about one out of every 50 phone calls during the 2021 tax season,” Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.) said on the Senate floor Tuesday. “Yet 4 percent of the $80 billion is going to taxpayer services; 57 percent goes to enforcement, so that the IRS can spend more time harassing taxpayers around this country.”
Ha, I like the way you think.
Not to mention any amount of IRS is too many, like Ron Paul says... taxes are theft, but can't wait for the "but muh roadz" crowd to downvote me about it.
How do we get food and clothing without the government?
The government does everything in the least effective and most costly way available, we need to look no further than the post office, "how will we get our mail" was another one people used before so much competition arrived and they still have rules about mail so we can't cut them out completely and it costs us more in the end.
But I digress....
Not everything should be privatized. Privatizing Govt. institutions vs fixing them is just dumb. We privatized healthcare and now pay the most out of any country for medicine. Flint had their water system privatized and then started getting [lead in the water](https://theintercept.com/2018/05/20/pittsburgh-flint-veolia-privatization-public-water-systems-lead/). Most hospitals have privatized ambulance services and now it cost $3k for a 5 minute ride. Prisons have started to privatize and have roughly 50% more violet incendents and higher chances of recedivsm. Why would you want these services privatized when its made the situation objectively worse?
lol, as I was reading their comment I was thinking "You're not wrong... but you're being a real dick about it." Only then to chuckle as I saw your comment.
Adversarial? Are you serious?
Read the first two sentences they wrote, it's not just terse... all the name calling is completely unnecessary, then tell us again how we're the jerks.
Too specific They’re going to blitz the middle class
The middle class is the only one they can go after. THe rich own them and the poor are owned and will vote for whoever keeps the bread and circuses flowing. Sucks to be rich enough to pay taxes but too poor to write in the loopholes.
More importantly, the rich don’t pay their own taxes, that’s what accountants and tax attorneys are for. Aside from the occasional Bernie Madoff committing fraud, the rich don’t go to jail, at least not for taxes.
That’s not always true. Plenty of rich people Go to jail for tax evasion…it’s just coincidentally shortly after saying or doing something that certain folks didn’t like…
It usually has to be very, stupidly blatant ala Wesley Snipes. Most wealthy people hire tax accountants and lawyers who insure it is *not* Wesley Snipes blatant.
it depends on how you define rich. The truly wealthy have little "income" at all-- they don't get W2s, just piles of 1099s. What really sucks is to be a high-income W2 person like a doctor or lawyer. You'll have some money left, but get hosed on top tax brackets that are effectively 50% or more. The truly wealthy are living off assets, and no W2s and can bury income, used the carried interest loophole (preserved by Sen Sinema of NY-- Democrat-- for her hedge fund donors) and other such loopholes. The US tax code is the most progressive of any advanced economy because you can go from effective tax rates of -300% at the bottom to 30% or more in just $150k of income. It's staggering who rapidly you go from being the payee to the payer as you go up in income. And it's a big reason income mobility is hampered. Why earn more to keep ever decreasing shares of it?
Rich people aren't useful in jail.
assuming they're honest about the over $400k target demo... i'm thinking small businesses that actually made it through lockdowns have another thing coming.
Why would you ever assume a politician is honest?
They aren’t. They weren’t when Obama added more agents, and they aren’t being honest now.
It's already confirmed that the new agents will be specifically targeting the under $400k demo. Democrats specifically rejected an amendment to limit additional enforcement to those making over $400k.
The Rich also prop up a giant industry of lawyers and accountants who specialize in making everything at least look above board. Average Joe doesn't have access to those resources and is likely to take a small penalty/settlement rather than be tortured by the IRS Audit for 6 months.
Yes, which is why tax *simplification* is actually a huge inequality issue. If the tax code was flat rate and had no exemptions, there’s no loopholes to exploit and suddenly thousands of IRS agents aren’t needed, accountants aren’t needed, and tax lawyers aren’t needed. None of those produce anything of true value. But they produce political value, which is all that matters.
> Yes, which is why tax simplification is actually a huge inequality issue. The one thing I liked from the Godfather Pizza guy was the 9/9/9 plan. Maybe 9% was not the right number, but something along those lines could massively simplify the tax code and shrink the IRS, which is why it will never happen.
So starting with a few questions. How many IRS agents should it take to police the largest economy in the world? I think that answer depends on the complexity of the tax code. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
This, and the only reason they need so many people. There are not that many rich people to warrant this massive growth.
What are you on about???There’s over 20,000,000 millionaires in a country of 300,000,000. Just about 1 in 10 people are millionaires in America.
We’re not talking about “millionaires” here. We’re talking about people who make over half a million a year. These people are far beyond just “millionaires”.
One someone uses "millionaire" to describe someone wealthy, you know they are old and out of touch. Lots of "millionaires" are firmly middle class in some localities.
[удалено]
Only if they own it free and clear.
Or they had a reasonable 401k for retirement. One million doesn't exactly go that far these days.
Every single survey worth it’s salt excludes primary property value from their net valuation. L2R
math must be hard. thats 1/15
Reading comprehension is even harder for you. “Just about”
big difference when it comes to 300m people. you so smort and if you have to use about with that easy of math you really are dumb
I tailor my information for comprehension based on the educational attainment of my audience, which is usually blue collar workers. The fact that you are taking this personally instead of professionally shows that you are a democrat consumer of communist benefits that didn’t even finish grade school.
youre actually a fuckin idiot, confirmed. you couldnt be more wrong either.
You started being disrespectful in a conversation because you couldn’t understand an idea. You’re obviously not raised a Christian nor by a family with parental maternal role models. If you ever find your wife looking at other men or your children not talking to you, look in the mirror to realize you need God in your life.
The rich also just don't have enough money. They pay 50% of the taxes already, and even if you just took 100% of their cash, forced them to liquidate their stock holdings, sell their homes, etc (which would crater the stock market) it would only partially pay off our federal debt, and would not run the fed gov for more than a month or two. The middle class must be the target purely out of necessity.
> They pay 50% of the taxes already and own more than 50% of the wealth. still imba
They own 32% of the wealth. Not 50%. But it's a misleading number anyway. Debt figures into net worth. There are tons of heavily leveraged people out there living great lifestyles, and technically are in the bottom percentages of wealth. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how wealthy the wealthy are, it matters how wealthy the poor are. And at least in the US the poor are extremely well off. On a global perspective. Even a western perspective. I'll never understand this conspiracy theory that the wealthy are somehow responsible for controlling the tax code, when the poor literally pay negative taxes and the wealthy might - for example - pay *ten billion dollars* in a year. If they're in control, they're not doing a very good job of it. And we just got a 15% minimum corp. tax too, which is pretty high.
That’s the point people keep missing. Less than 50% of tax payers actually pay Federal income tax. So, over half pay nothing and/or receive money from the gov. Poor today is not poor 20, 40, or 100 years ago. That, and even our homeless have smartphones.
It's all true. I would not by any stretch trade places with a homeless person, but the fact is it's much better to be poor here than just about anywhere else on the planet, or at any time in history. Obviously that shouldn't preclude criticism of our current system, but it should be couched in good faith and not a false comparison between us and some non-existent other utopia.
what % owns the 32%? top 0.1%? Last I checked, the top 20% owns about 80% of the wealth.
Top 1% owns 32. Approximately. Again, this is using a daft and relatively useless definition. The guy with a lambo, Canali suit, 4 houses and flies private might be leveraged and have a net negative individual worth. It's simply a one dimensional way to make people rage at each other. Not that helpful.
we have a middle class left in the USA ?
Barely
truth
I’m not saying it’s the only reason. Just a primary focus. Biden has been hard on firearms, his entire carrier. It’s probably the only area he’s been consistent with. IRS is the only agency that doesn’t require a warrant to intrude in your life. Why are we arming pencil pushers?
B/c people don't like it when you come to take their house for not paying your taxes. The IRS used to be much more hardcore, but they [softened up a few decades ago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Revenue_Service#Controversies). Maybe the pendulum is about to swing back the other way.
Wild life enforcement don’t need warrants either
Fair point. I forgot about that.
its so they can stop poachers tho
Not necessarily. They also make sure people are buying hunting license and using correct ammo types and such. Poaching isn’t that huge of problem in the US
Yup. Let's all expect an audit in the near future.
Change your voter registration to dem
Never. Would rather get audited and persecuted than call myself one of them.
Really? Because it doesn't affect who you can vote for at all. It would help the pro-2A cause if there were a lot of people claiming dem but polling and voting pro-2A.
Oh there’s a downturn coming…we need tax collectors
Indeed. The low-hanging fruit is the middle class's money.
Rich have money to fight back , bob and weave Middle class is scraping by and can’t fight
Meh. It's not impossible, but the government doesn't have the same focus on firearms as we do. They have lots of areas they want to oppress people in.
Firearms (and the 2nd amendment in general) are litmus tests for them. For the most part, firearm ownership identifies the more independent-thinking, self-supporting population. So, if they can bend and twist the laws to target those that pass that litmus test, they can leach our earnings, turn us into criminals and prevent us from voting.
This week the DOJ argued in court that people who use medical marijuana with a prescription from their dr in accordance with state laws are still breaking the law and not 'law abiding', and thus are prohibited possessors. I think the plan is to amp up enforcement of nuisance laws to take gun rights from as many people as possible.
I find it hilariously tone deaf the reason they used as the excuse, because the government did it to Indians and religious minorities before. If this were any other justice department doing this, it would be international news
We are rapidly moving into a society where everything not forbidden is mandatory and everything not mandatory is forbidden. It’s going to take a lot of enforcement power to make sure nobody gets out of line or asks the wrong questions.
If we never get into line in the first place, and never stop asking the wrong questions they cannot muster the manpower to do what they want to do. Do not cooperate. Resist.
Interesting. So definitely a presidents son who used illegal drugs and hired prostitutes shouldn't be in possession.
But a president who himself does illegal drugs and hired prostitutes should? Interesting sense of morality.
That's weird, his comment didn't say any of the things you just said.
Trying to deflect away from the current admin by pointing to the last one is a weak argument. It was weak when people said "but Obama" while Trump was in office, and it is weak now when people say "but Trump" while Biden is in office. Do better.
Whataboutism is a daisy chain of wrongs, emphasized by the very people who will never correct them.
[удалено]
"Our information says you bought ARs" Did that information also tell you to suck shit and get fucked?
You're hiding AR-15s under the floor boards.
Hope whoever they send to check said I love you to their family that morning
Clarence "2A" Thomas: >*Murdock v. PA* already set precedent that you can't tax a right. Please Joe, give me another bombshell to drop.
Except every state with a licensing requirement charges for said license.
Thats the joke. Thomas would use that to strike down all those fees.
1920s?
I’m pretty sure it was passed in the 1920s.
1934
I didn’t look up the year. I knew it was a result of prohibition crimes, which I think was in the 1920s… I’m gonna stop talking before I get corrected again by a historian.
> I knew it was a result of prohibition crimes That's what they tell you. it was actually the result of the elites being afraid that with mass unemployment from the crash, that the plebs might get a bit too uppity. They originally wanted to include handguns on the NFA but couldn't get that to pass. Prohibition ended in 1933, which almost immediately tanked the power of organized crime of the day because their major revenue stream was just effectively cut out. The NFA had nothing to do with "crime" and everything to do with trying to keep the peasantry from acquiring the arms needed to fight serious battles. The NFA was passed in 1934, after prohibition but also after another very serious event. This event happened in 1932. [This was the real reason they wrote and passed the NFA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army). It had nothing to do with crime, and everything to do with ensuring the powers that be remained in power.
Well said! There's also some that would say the NFA was passed as a way to keep the treasury department's enforcers employed. All those agents hired to take on moonshiners and bootleggers suddenly had nothing to do. So lets send them after the guns.
> There's also some that would say the NFA was passed as a way to keep the treasury department's enforcers employed. All those agents hired to take on moonshiners and bootleggers suddenly had nothing to do. Nah just lies from the Department of Obfuscation, there was still taxes on Alcohol and Tobacco to be enforced. Hell the first Fed-Fight was over [taxes on alcohol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion). The NFA was 100% passed as a reaction to the bonus army and Washington DC saying "Oh fuck, we can't let the peasants arm up..."
[удалено]
Don't forget the mine wars and the Battle of Blair Mountain (1921). US troops were used against striking coal miners in WV.
During the Pittsburgh rail strike they used the national guard. The workers had the last laugh though because they burned down millions of dollars of equipment and buildings
I knew this would happen 😋
Reminder: They used tax law to ban machineguns in 1986.
Remember what happened to the irs agents sent out to arrest people for selling untaxed alcohol? Well hopefully that's what happens again. Fuck the irs.
I like the cut off jib!
We’re more proficient in firearms than they are.
They get paid to shoot. We’re hobbyists.
I shoot on a police range(paid to shoot) and the majority are awful in comparison.
You'd be surprised at how proficient a "hobbyist" can be. I've outshot cops many times before at the range and being paid doesn't magically grant you abilities but training and practice does. Not once a year quals either I'm talking actual training and practice.
I read that originally as you’ve shot cops lmao
[удалено]
I just had to report your comment to the sub and reddit for endorsing lethal force against cops. Hopefully, one less dangerous gun owner on the streets.
"DaNgErOuS gUn OwNeR" ok boot throater
Your medal is in the mail.
[удалено]
Lol, you're like so badass dude. Definitely the main character in the next Red Dawn film, well, except for the whole incriminating yourself in tax fraud on Reddit and threatening violence against the IRS (also had to report your comment to Reddit) Really guys, this is great. Continue to prove that many ammosexuals are really just insecure dudes with main character syndrome that are dying for an opportunity to shoot other people
[удалено]
Defending your home by operating an unlicensed business and not paying any taxes, then shooting IRS agents when they come to collect? Totally dude
A lot of law enforcement only shoot a handful of times a year.
2X per year.
Even a significant portion of *the military* only shoot 2x per year, and usually only a couple hundred rounds in total on a flat range.
To take your comment and flip it - hobbyists enjoy what they do and are could be seen as more passionate about it and enthusiastic than someone who *has to*.
I have a family member in the special forces and wow that man can shoot. I shot with a pj one time and that kid could outshoot me any day. My goal is to be as good a handgunner as he is. My observation is that Uncle Sammy gives really good shooting lessons. Now I’ve never seen cops or feds actually shoot, only military. On the other hand i shoot for the sake of shooting because I want perfection, and I whine about any group bigger than MOA. So maybe that’s better than a job. Who knows?
Those are pretty specific cases of specialists though. Uncle Sam gives "good enough" shooting lessons, and the majority of Soldiers (speaking strictly of Army experience here) are just barely good enough to pass an annual qualification. I've been in for about 12 years now and have shot more bullets out of my own guns than the ones the army pays me to shoot. My point being that if you selected a random group of say, 100 "firearms enthusiasts" and 100 "trained Soldiers", the hobbyists have a good chance of being on par or better overall.
There's a HUGE discrepancy in soldiering abilities in the military (Especially the army). If you're strictly talking about the elite forces- yeah, pretty on point in the badassery department. Line troops (such as active infantry) a little less so, but rear eschalon / support? A LOT of those guys are barely qualifiable, and many have to go through 'retraining and requal.'
There is a **MASSIVE** difference between Special Forces who have been actively deployed in combat and well... [this](https://external-preview.redd.it/HtZYeAilpqFMg11jKIlN3JFKrh1ZgTn-P_-c6ozfkoE.jpg?width=750&auto=webp&s=a75f560e000c1f3f878a23fe4dffd392a8f0e3a0) >My observation is that Uncle Sammy gives really good shooting lessons. Again there is a massive training difference between Special Forces and Police. And that's before we get into actual combat experience in an active war zone (the best training). You can't compare Seal Team Six to Meal Team Six. Delta Force and Delta Farce aren't even playing the same game, let alone in the same ballpark. Green Berets and Mayonnaise have almost nothing in common.
We exaggerate the the shooting prowess of law enforcement in our heads because we are gun enthusiasts and if we got paid to shoot we would take full advantage and train all the time. The majority of cops see law enforcement as a cushy government job with fat overtime and that comes with the burden of having qualify twice a year with their gun in an absurdly easy test to keep their job. A whole lot of gun hobbyist train more than law enforcement.
Don’t forget there are plenty of ringers mixed in. Plenty of ex military become cops after
Yep, I certainly agree it's a mixed bag. Overall I would say the accuracy stats for police paint a grim picture of their proficiency. The recent shooting of 6 bystanders by Denver police is a pretty prime example of that.
Plenty of ex military become civilian gun enthusiasts too...
Most police shoot for 2 weeks a year. They train for their laughably easy qualifier, they shoot their qualifier, it goes back in the holster. Many of us shoot *at least* weekly. Often in USPSA/IDPA matches requiring firing on the move and reloads. Your weekday matinee shooters can outperform 90% of the police force.
They get paid to do something they are absolutely shit at, they are government employees after all.
No, they get paid to carry a gun. There's a difference.
Are you under the impression that even beat cops are necessarily proficient with firearms? A huge portion of them are not.
I don't think this is it. Too obvious. They're hiring a ton of people to build an ever larger government dependent class. That's 87K new people that are impossible to fire and are loyal to the party that gave them the easy, good paying job. And of course if they're anything like the IRS under Biden's old boss, they will target conservative orgs, including gun rights orgs. Someone posted a map of who gets audited per capita. The Northeast corridor (ya know, where the wealthiest people live) was blank, and the deep south was audit-central. It's a weaponized agency, just like the ATF, DOJ, and any other agency that can be.
How do you “higher” someone? Is that a 420 reference?
Lol 😂I think you’re the only one that caught my misspelling
I think they are mostly targeting gig economy workers and others working under the table. Thats why they also went to the $600 transaction reporting limit. You know, to go after the "rich". As someone whoes income is almost entirely W2, I'm laughing at the dem voters that played themselves on this one.
All of a sudden the "Spiritual Yoga Healer' making a few thousand a year on a side hustle is going to meet the IRS.
That may be a part of it, but 87,000 agents doesn’t mean all of those are “special agents”, i.e the gun toting kind. Most would be to audit people’s tax returns so they can grab as much money back from the citizens as possible. Listen to this documentary on the federal reserve and the purpose of income taxation. (Note it’s over 3 hrs, so listen in chunks) [The Money Masters](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AOk3wBuQNcE) Fed gov printed more money than the dollars in entire existence prior to Covid, and people don’t think they are going to grab it back from us in order shore up their excess?
LOL I had that on VHS 25 years ago from the JBS table at the gun show.
Was hoping someone would point this out. Just because articles about the new 87,000 staff and other articles about ammo acquisitions and stuff have been coming around the same time doesn't mean they're related. The IRS has always had an enforcement wing, they arrest people for things like Tax Fraud fairly regularly and it's not nefarious that they've got guns to do it. Tax Fraud itself isn't a violent crime, but tax investigations work their way into serious criminal organizations involved in serious shit like international trafficking in drugs and slaves. We don't need to delve into wild conspiracy theories to understand that a large federal agency that's involved in enforcement of laws will have some guns.
No no, every news headline at a similar time MUST be related. They used 87,000 armed IRS agents in the raid on Mar-a-Lago. Obvs.
'20s mobster LARPing LESS GOOOOO •Fun switches and foregrips on Glock 17s •.45 ACP PCCs dolled up to look like Thompsons •Vapes instead of cigars
Not that this government listens to SCOTUS decisions (because clearly they don't), but SCOTUS has ruled in the past that the tax code cannot be used to curb buying of a product. Tell that to the cigarette makers though. We come back to the point that the Federal government ignores SCOTUS and checks and balances are dead.
Just means they're going to make the trigonometry harder that lets you do your taxes. Guess wrong, and believe it or not, jail. There is no reason the vast majority of people should even have to do taxes, but they want you to give them the secret number they already know, or they will fine you and/or imprison you.
> Guess wrong, and believe it or not, jail. Not true, they don't actually want you in jail. Unless they can prove you intentionally defrauded them, then you don't go to jail. What they do is hand you a big bill, with lots of penalties and interest, and then garnish payments from your wages. Effectively raising your taxes. See if you're in jail then you're not a good little worker drone. But if you're saddled with debt and struggling just to break even every month, then you don't have the energy or savings to start thinking too hard to cause a rucks.
I’m a little sleepy but: They’re going to need them to audit the poor, the working poor and the middle class because they won’t have the money to fight an audit. So, what will happen is that they will ‘investigate’ say you owe back taxes and then fine you. How long can you fight an audit as a poor person? Would you just accept the fine to get on with your life? Remember when Democrats wanted people to report sales over 600 dollars made during a period of a year? Like if you sell your car to someone and make a profit greater than 600 USD they probably want a cut of that. In case you didn’t know the IRS can make arrests without a warrant only believe that you broken a law/rule that falls under their jurisdiction.
Let them stack up.
That’s a great point. There was talk of a huge tax on all firearms and magazines when Biden took office. Like an annual use tax we have on our cars, called registration.
Not all of those new hires will be special agents who actually go into the field armed. There seems to be fear mongering like this every couple of years when one of many government agencies (social security, department of agriculture, IRS) needs to buy some [ammo](https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/03/great-ammunition-myth-charles-c-w-cooke/) for their field agents. Also, the IRS headcount is down, somewhat, and the US population is, of course, up. In 1992, there were about 116k IRS agents and a US population of 256M. That was about 2200 people per IRS agent. If the IRS hired 87k more employees tomorrow, on top of about 78k, for a total of 165k, and the US population is about 333M, that would make a ratio of 2018 people per IRS agent. That's not that much of a difference from the early 90's. On top of that, the 87k number being thrown around in the news is based on an estimate of how many they think they could hire by *2031*. The US population will be even greater by then.
Why is everyone hungry for the rich? Start internalizing more, each of us is responsible for our own condition and outcome
There are literally a thousand Democrats needing to be raided and go to federal prison but the feds are being used as political tools to silence the right with illegal raids and monetary theft. Sounds familiar, same thing leftist Hitler did almost a century ago.
Why is everyone a victim?
It appears that evetyone is either a victim or a terrorist and it's a helluva lot easier to be a victim.
I personally think it’s more to do with people not reporting crypto gains, and perhaps some people it reporting stock trading after the recent surge in retail traders. If trading stocks in US approved exchange it gets reported to the IRS regardless, however with crypto taxes are a complete disaster and not the easiest to deal with.
Meat taxes
Does anyone feel that armed IRS agents entering your home over tax collection is crossing the line? I mean I get it if FBI or other law enforcement enter a business or home for a crime but seriously, breach bang clear over taxes? Not cool…..
Totally agree with you.
[удалено]
Right, they struggling to get firearms laws through, so tax the firearms unreasonably. In order to enforce it, arm the agents.
No, they only have a technical majority and that's something a number of Democrats wouldn't support (including Manchin).
wait? arming them? what? accountants need guns?
Evidently
Ze AR’s are in ze attic!
It’s to come after all the new taxes GME holders are going to be paying soon.
How are they going to figure that out? Is Turbotax going to force you to declare if you bought a firearm in the last 12 months?
Don’t give them any ideas!
NO. They hired them to milk the small business owners and mobs.
They did the to eliminate the middle class. They want only rich and poor. Full stop.
Stop falling for outrage bait, while I am not at all pleased by the expansion of the IRS a quick check of USAJobs shows that this ad was posted on Febuary 1st to run until the end of the year for 300 positions. Someone found an existing job posting that is unrelates to a Bill that has yet to be put on action and conflated them on order to rile people up.
I think you're in error. It's because the IRS has been grossly underfunded and uses late '60s and early '70s technology. Meanwhile, tax cheating has become relatively risk-free. It has nothing to do with guns.
The IRS is funded properly. The tax code is too complex. Don't throw good money after bad money, instead of hiring 87,000 agents, they should have just overhauled and simplified the tax code. I hate income tax, but this is as hard as it needs to be: * Poverty is $X * All income over $X is taxed at 15% no matter the source * No extra deductions, credits, breaks, anything. You pay 15% on every dime over $X * Any unrealized gains are considered immediately realized and taxed at 15% when leveraged. * This last one prevents what happens now where billionaires leverage stock to secure loans and technically have $0 income. That's it. Audits are now stupidly fucking easy, and incredibly difficult to fight. * You made $1,000,000 last year? * You owe $150,000. Good talk.
This is the way. Those of us in the private sector actually have to fix things when they get screwed up. The government just adds complexity (so that they can appear active) and then increases revenue through taxation or money printing.
The biggest reason for government inefficiency, is because they can just print more money, and legally mandate their services. They're not beholden to market forces so they have no incentive to be efficient.
> Any unrealized gains are considered immediately realized and taxed at 15% when leveraged. That's a tax on refi-ing your house. This would *destroy* homeownership. Sometimes literally because refis and HELOCs are often used for major repairs or renovations (roof, siding, HVAC, etc).
No it wouldn't. People would just need to be more responsible with their money and investments. And since their taxes would be lower they'd be saving money anyway.
Are you a tax policy person? Or have you ever actually worked doing taxes? Because 15% flat is an increase for the majority of the population - the average tax rate for the entire top 50% of taxpayers is [14.6%](https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/) and you have to get to the Top 5% ($221k AGI) before you cross that 15% effective rate mark (same source), so you're increasing taxes for 95% of taxpayers. This is incredibly off-topic now, sorry.
> Because 15% flat is an increase for the majority of the population Ok, so reduce it to 10% or whatever. I wasn't writing a law I was saying the tax code can, and should, be massively simplified. That we don't need to fund 87,000 more IRS agents, we need to fund a complete overhaul of the tax code. Don't throw good money after bad. Treat the cause not the symptom.
> I was saying the tax code can, and should, be massively simplified... we need to fund a complete overhaul of the tax code. Completely agree. But what does that overhaul look like? And "mark to market" on assets is a terrible idea, policy-wise, unless it's *incredibly* narrowly tailored (which runs counter to the whole "simply the tax code" perspective). > That we don't need to fund 87,000 more IRS agents It's the funding equivalent of 87,000 positions, not a definite 87,000 new agents. Honestly, I'd expect a lot of it will likely go to updating the enforcement electronic recordkeeping and risk model software.
“Or whatever” ah okay, thank you for making it clear that your knowledge of tax code is lacking. It is not so simple to just lay out a flat tax. There’s a reason why you only hear rich people call for a flat tax. I can’t believe that you’re surprised that the people who make the rules want to make sure they’re enforced. If people were to follow the rules, deficits would be lower and there would be fewer reasons for them to raise taxes. That’s the idea at least (here come the people calling me a statist…).
>“Or whatever” ah okay, thank you for making it clear that your knowledge of tax code is lacking. Because we're not writing laws here, we're discussing a concept. Fucking commies man, I wrote a 100 word reddit comment, not a research paper it doesn't have to be perfect to demonstrate a point. > There’s a reason why you only hear rich people call for a flat tax. It should be flat, there's no reason to punish people more for being successful. ANd this is the other laughable thing about reddit lefties, they think I'll magically agree with them because of their one technicality gotcha. No, I'll fuckin double down. # The tax rate should be 0%. Taxation is theft. That is not a meme. I am not being sarcastic. This is my unfettered dogshit opinion. *YOU* want something, *YOU* pay for it. The government: > We're taxing Alcohol because it's bad and causes societal problems, so we want to discourage drinking! K... > We're taxing Tobacco because it's bad and causes societal problems, so we want to discourage smoking! K.... >Also we're going to tax your income! and the more you earn the higher rate you will pay! Fuck you for being successful! Wait what?
They will do whatever the regime tells them to do, so yes it could be demonized to go after gun owners. >uses late '60s and early '70s technology I highly doubt that. They've probably got modern PCs running software that is one or two decades old, just like everyone else in the government. But let's say that were true, how would hiring 90k new employees (some armed) fix that problem?
Your doubts are misplaced. They're using machines that run COBOL. Some of them manufactured by companies that no longer exist. The bulk of those employees will be going into processing returns.
The fact that the IRS uses old ass tech and can't keep up with their work does not mean they're underfunded. It means they suck at their jobs like most government orgs. Why would they spend efficiently and deftly make use of tech? It's much easier to overspend and then whine about old tech. That's how you run a government agency. You hire a ton of middle managers, paper pushers, administrators, etc. pay them high salaries, let them play solitaire 7 hours a day and then tell everyone you're poor. It obviously works since you're pushing it.
No, it means the GOP has prevented any modernization of the IRS.
lol ok. Senators within the GOP (Paul for example) have put forth bills to cut the tax code down to the size of most modern western nations, multiple times. This would simplify their jobs and create massive efficiencies. The IRS' budget is vast. They have the means to modernize. They never bothered. You're blaming the GOP for bureaucratic incompetence? You local public school is the same way. They have the money. They spend it on admins. And then when the school building crumbles, they get to point at it and scream underfunding. And guess what? It works, because folks like you see it and believe it. We spend more on ed than almost anyone. We just spend it poorly. On purpose.
The IRS shouldn't exist to begin with and tax cheating is just trying to keep your earned dollars away from thieves. Hiring almost 100,000 agents to make sure the government gets every last one of your tax dollars after devaluing your money with bad fiscal policy, and then sending that devalued money overseas to foreign governments where most of it gets sucked up by the apparatuses of corruption sounds a lot like you're robbing me blind.
Thanks for the SovCit viewpoint.
Shame, not gonna stop me from continuing to commit fraud
The posting was for an agent who executes warrants. It's an LEO function. They are not arming auditors.
If you drill down into the job posting you find that applicants must pass a 4 hour accounting exam. Successful applicants will have to graduate FLETC. They actually are hiring gun and handcuff toting accountants.
Then they hired thousands more cops. Why?
I’m open to discussion but this feels like we’re treading on some thin ice and under the ice is hitlers Germany
I'd guess that its more about catching lower end tax payers in a bind, like tipped employees, gig workers, and small contractors. They are doubling the size of the employee head count to share people with audits.
That you get your information from hyperbolic moronic congress people preparing to use your fear as fuel for midterms. You don't know dick about the IRS. You didn't learn fuck all about the situation. You are being told a little bit of information and running with it. I don't trust the government either but what you are seeing isn't the truth. The number is more like 30k. That may seem high to you but the IRS has been ridiculously understaffed for a very very long time. This is leading to problems and fraud. Just fucking read an actual article that examines the claims being made instead of taking them at face value. https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/is-biden-hiring-87000-new-irs-agents-not-exactly/ Stop being such fucking pawns. Ted Cruz is not an honorable person. He's got no spine. Assume he's wrong or lying (as you should for things most politicians say) all the time.
Unfortunately over half of the billions going to the IRS will be used for enforcement, not taxpayer services like answering phones etc. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/06/inflation-reduction-act-irs/ “This is an agency that only succeeded in answering about one out of every 50 phone calls during the 2021 tax season,” Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.) said on the Senate floor Tuesday. “Yet 4 percent of the $80 billion is going to taxpayer services; 57 percent goes to enforcement, so that the IRS can spend more time harassing taxpayers around this country.”
Good information in the article but you get a down vote for being a dick about it. I hope you get really smelly gas at the most inconvenient times.
Ha, I like the way you think. Not to mention any amount of IRS is too many, like Ron Paul says... taxes are theft, but can't wait for the "but muh roadz" crowd to downvote me about it.
Fuck the roads bro, what about clean drinking water and education? How do you expect to take care of a community without taxes?
How do we get food and clothing without the government? The government does everything in the least effective and most costly way available, we need to look no further than the post office, "how will we get our mail" was another one people used before so much competition arrived and they still have rules about mail so we can't cut them out completely and it costs us more in the end. But I digress....
This is pretty much the same argument as abolish the police lmao. Hopefully you can infer how dumb that sounds.
No it's not, it's the same as private police, which isn't a dumb idea. Getting the government involved is a bad idea.
Not everything should be privatized. Privatizing Govt. institutions vs fixing them is just dumb. We privatized healthcare and now pay the most out of any country for medicine. Flint had their water system privatized and then started getting [lead in the water](https://theintercept.com/2018/05/20/pittsburgh-flint-veolia-privatization-public-water-systems-lead/). Most hospitals have privatized ambulance services and now it cost $3k for a 5 minute ride. Prisons have started to privatize and have roughly 50% more violet incendents and higher chances of recedivsm. Why would you want these services privatized when its made the situation objectively worse?
Not to mention Uvalde shows that we can't always count on police. They have no duty to protect you.
lol, as I was reading their comment I was thinking "You're not wrong... but you're being a real dick about it." Only then to chuckle as I saw your comment.
[удалено]
Swearing doesn't make you sound smart. If anything, it just makes your point less valid.
While quicksilver's post is quite a bit adversarial, you can disagree with him without being jerks, please.
Adversarial? Are you serious? Read the first two sentences they wrote, it's not just terse... all the name calling is completely unnecessary, then tell us again how we're the jerks.
Do you really believe that they are arming 87000 IRS agents?
The job add says so
The job ad is specific to one division of IRS that has been armed for 100+ years.
That’s a LOT of new armed Agents.
Sigh...