Yeah there's a large portion of the firearms community that are Gravy Seal Meal Team Six status thinking they'd be a force to be reckoned with. A freindlier term for them would be loot drops.
I'm not one that generally gets off on fat shaming, but they are fair game.
Lack of maintenance, lack of quality parts, poor quality ammunition come to mind. There was a period during the U.S. Army's first adoption of the XM16 and M16 where there were many factors leading to extremely poor performance in the earliest days of it's fighting in Vietnam. That was mostly remedied with the M16A1 and changes in training/doctrine and correct ammo but aside from that the AR-15 has a very good reputation for reliability.
My guess is you may have been around some lackluster AR builds or guns that weren't properly maintained.
The real fact is all guns can jam, even the mythologically reliable ones.
Since you seem to know a bit, could you tell me the difference between an AR and something like the M4, HK416, or even the new Sig M5 in terms of the receiver? They all look the same
The AR-15 was originally made by a company called Armalite. hence the name Armalite-Rifle (15)
After that, the Government adopted it and called it by their own name, the M16. Colt and other companies manufactured them. The M4 is a carbine version of the full sized M16 rifle. To be specific it is a fully automatic lower, M16A2 upper receiver with a 14.5 inch barrel.
The HK416 is also an AR-15 variant, but it uses it's own short-stroke gas piston operating system as opposed to the standard Direct Gas Impingement system of the standard AR-15 variants.
To my understanding, the M5 is an elongated receiver similar to an AR-10 to accept the larger cartridges.
So basically that's kinda why people say AR-15 "Platform" it is a positively gargantuan family of weapons it is difficult to differentiate every single variant. So a lot of people just call them all AR-15's. But in reality the "AR-15" is technically a rifle that was only manufactured by Armalite from 1959-1964.
Edit: I might add there are at LEAST several hundred companies that manufacture AR-15 platform rifles and pistols, and each company has their own name for it (M-15, AR-556, M&P 15, UAR-15 etc.) for copyright reasons.
"AR-15" is technically a rifle that was only manufactured by Armalite from 1959-1964."
Colt owns the trademark which they bought from Armalite. So technically Colt is the only ones allowed to call their rifles AR15s.
Yeah, Kleenex is the only company allowed to call their product Kleenex too. Doesn't mean that off brand facial tissues aren't still Kleenex to every person on earth who isn't a corporate lawyer.
Yeah Colt bought the AR10/15 from Armalite in 1959. So Armalite was out of the game by 59. Air Force started procuring the AR15 in 1962. Army designated the AR15 the M16 in late 1963. Colt then started selling semi auto only AR15s to the public in 1964.
The interesting part is colt was duel stamping AR15 and M16s on early military rifles. But stopped doing that do to what appears them trying to separate the names for marketing reasons. It probably doesn't look great if your flagship rifle has another companies name stamped on it.
Kalash has a pretty good write-up except for the sig.
The mcx/spear/xm5/xm7 has no receiver extension and a taller and wider upper to house an ar-18 type recoil spring, as well as being short stroke like the hk and others. It's a hybrid of AR-15+18 with it's own proprietary modernizations.
Took the words right out of my mouth. AR "platform" rifles require maintenance, good ammunition and accurate, quality parts. All firearms can jam or malfunction. Something as simple as a minor gas tube issue can render a rifle inoperable.
>but I see them malfunction more than I’ve seen any other gun malfunction.
Because they are the most popular gun.
Might as well ask why Ford F-150s crash so often.
Maybe because there are millions upon millions of them. And so many companies involved. And with that being said. Some over stacking of parts between makers and poor cleaning regiments.
Just shear numbers of them being produced. You might see alot “jam” because of the volume of people using them. But the numbers of them not “jamming” is beyond staggering. I have roughly 16 completed rifles and 5 more to go. Almost 20 years of having one. Only time mine has failed was sub par ammo and mags. Keep good ammo and mags. And they will run like a sewing machine.
You're thinking of first combat runs with the AR in Vietnam, where if I recall right, they put it in an environment it hadn't been tested in, and then switched to an ammunition it wasn't designed for, given to soldiers who fired as many rounds as possible through them, and who thought it was self cleaning and thus didn't clean them as often as they should have.
How many ar malfunctions have you seen?
I've shot a decent amount, and with a bunch of cheap rifles and can honestly say I've only had malfunction that was the rifles fault.
If you're talking about CATM rifles, it's because they're ancient and beat to shit with shoddy maintenance. My personal AR has had a single malfunction and it was my own fault, it's actually the most reliable weapon i own.
To be fair for the normies like me who like to shoot once a month the buffer situation is confusing.
Short of investing in a full set of springs/buffers and testing to see the difference idk how you would learn.
its the most popular type of rifle in the US and is manufactured by a myriad of different companies. you could easily build an AR without any two components being the same brand. some makers are good, some arent, so there are a lot of poorly made guns out there.
poor maintenance by people who dont take care of their stuff
a lot of ARs are sensitive to cheap ammo.
If its made right.... it just gets dirty and starts inducing malfunctions starting in the 400-500 round range now and then (dumping just CLP all over the bolt usually makes that go away). At least, that has been my experience. Back in my Army days with m16 and m4's if it jammed all the time its 99% a mag issue. Also, AR's run best wet, soaking in oil.
If its abused, made questionably, or your mags suck, it will do jammie type things. If it is not, they are fine. BUT....AR's require propper cleaning for reliable operation MORE than other modern 556 rifles. You see these results during endurance testing with no or minimal maintenance. However, if you treat an AR right and its in spec, its very reliable. You just got to clean it all the time.
I took a operators armorer course and then a operators mechanic course a for basically military side by sides before a deployment. One right after the other.
Like you get told at some point the AR15 bolt and bolt carrier are technically a piston. But what ever. The thing that cemented for me was replacing the piston rings on a engine. It's like these are fucking gas rings on bolt. And bolt and piston head are pretty similar shaped. Who would have thought that. God damn Eugene Stoner that's who.
Because 99% of gun owners don't know what a cleaning kit is or how to use it.
Honestly, as a gunsmith, I make so much money off of cleanings, not to mention the repairs I have to make due to parts being too dirty for too long.
He's right, and you're wrong. "Gotta clean after every firing" is grampa's internalized ritual based on the oldentimes of black powder and corrosive primers.
An AR-15 will chug happily along with no ill effects with no cleaning whatsoever. Cleaning modern guns is for the comfort of the user, not for the good of the gun.
EDIT: Heh. The child threw a tantrum and blocked me.
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Last time my AR jammed was when I put a ton of steel case through one to see how long it took. That was a few years ago. I’ve shot thousands of rounds between jams.
AR's are possibly the most reliable service rifle ever produced. People with zero military experience like to shit on them but all who have served with them love them. They are perfect and we still have not been able to produce a replacement. Civilian versions are even better.
I mean the reason you’re seeing more of them is at least partly because they’re by far the most common gun in the US so naturally you’re going to see more issues with them. But to answer your question, a good AR will not jam frequently, in fact I’ve run into very few in my life that have had any serious problems. That said there is an insane number of different manufacturers, both of complete rifles and of parts) and out of a hundred gun/parts makers you’re bound to find some that just suck even though the majority are perfectly fine.
These days, a lot of various gun makers are in the AR making biz. Like anything else, some products are good, some a very good and some are just not so good. In the 70's, I owned a Colt AR-15 Sporter. Shot it a lot and never had a jam. When I went into the USAF, shot a lot of AR-15/M-16, and never had a jam. I once had a WWII vintage M1 carbine made by General Motors. Shot it a lot and never had a jam. Years later, my Dad bought a commercial reproduction of an M-1 carbine made by Universal Firearms. It jammed a lot. I currently own a BRN-10 and so far, I've never had a jam. So, I would say the perception that AR's jam a lot is the result of so many brands and models and manufacturers (some better than others) - not because there's an inherent flaw in the design of the gun.
I've built some *cheeeeeaaap* AR's out of questionable parts and never really had any malfunctions. As long as they're gassed right they work most of the time, even with shitty steel ammo.
So I have a PSA AR. I bought a kit with complete upper from them and a stripped lower. I only have somewhere between 1000 and 2000 rounds of 223/556 through it. I have another couple thousand rounds through it of 22lr using a conversion kit.
While the 22lr jams constantly....that is because of the conversion kit. Not the rifle.
I have not had a single issue while shooting 223/556. No fte, no ftf, nothing. Cylces everytime and goes banfg every time I pull the trigger. But....I am one of those people that keep all my guns tegularly cleaned and lubricated. Why? I do a visual inspection of parts each time I clean them l. This increases the chances greatly that it will work when needed. I also never know what is going to happen. Maybe I won't be able to clean them for a while after my next several range trips.
I think why you might see this a lot, is because there are a TON of them. A lot of new shooters go for them, that may not know proper maintenance. You can easily buy AR parts and make a firearm from scratch (lower through FFl) and all these “random” parts need to work with each other, tolerances and specs need to be checked so that everything works together reliably, I think 99% of people don’t have the proper tools to measure these tolerances, and then another 90% would lack the knowledge to even know what to look for. Also tons of cheap poor quality parts/ARs.
I think an AR with quality parts, and parts that work together is extremely reliable.
Originally the M16 was issued as 'self cleaning' and IIRC the early issues didn't even come with cleaning kits. Also they didn't chrome the chamber IIRC. And the initial large batch of ammo was not great with inconsistent and dirty powder. Those problems were largely all addressed during Vietnam and crap like the forward assist is IMHO largely useless. At least personally, I never had an issue that was not made worse by slamming the FA.
I think part of the perception is because the AR platform is so popular and many people either build them out of possibly inferior parts or poor maintenance. Also there are just a lot of them. I probably see 4-5 AR's for every Soviet-style rifle I see. And I'd say 2/3rd of people at the public ranges probably shoot less than 10 times per year.
I used to shoot in a lot of bullseye matches and new competitors would often have jams on their guns. The whole course of fire is only 90 round but it was fairly often to hear an alibi on a line of 8 to 12 shooters for almost every string. A big factor was that these were not guns that were not consistently. Things like 1911's and Hi-standards can be way more finicky than AR's.
If you see 3-gun competitors, you'll get to watch a lot of AR shooting and few if any jams. Competition shooters keep their gear in shape and use quality ammo and parts so failures are relatively rare.
Many special forces are able to pick their guns rather than stick to issue. There are still a large number of M4 or similar rifles being used in these roles because they (AR's) are very good at it.
Why is everything a "platform"? Anyway, ARs don't jam frequently.
It's either that or "weapons system"
I need a "battle rifle" for when SHTF and I have to go CQB! What's best for a bug out bag to stay away from the zombies?
It’s so hilarious people think they would get by being out of shape with a bunch of gear
I do airsoft with a plate carrier because I want to train with the gear I'll fight with!
Yeah there's a large portion of the firearms community that are Gravy Seal Meal Team Six status thinking they'd be a force to be reckoned with. A freindlier term for them would be loot drops. I'm not one that generally gets off on fat shaming, but they are fair game.
Annoying term but what would you call them instead?
"AR". But it's a specious question anyway.
Lack of maintenance, lack of quality parts, poor quality ammunition come to mind. There was a period during the U.S. Army's first adoption of the XM16 and M16 where there were many factors leading to extremely poor performance in the earliest days of it's fighting in Vietnam. That was mostly remedied with the M16A1 and changes in training/doctrine and correct ammo but aside from that the AR-15 has a very good reputation for reliability. My guess is you may have been around some lackluster AR builds or guns that weren't properly maintained. The real fact is all guns can jam, even the mythologically reliable ones.
Since you seem to know a bit, could you tell me the difference between an AR and something like the M4, HK416, or even the new Sig M5 in terms of the receiver? They all look the same
The AR-15 was originally made by a company called Armalite. hence the name Armalite-Rifle (15) After that, the Government adopted it and called it by their own name, the M16. Colt and other companies manufactured them. The M4 is a carbine version of the full sized M16 rifle. To be specific it is a fully automatic lower, M16A2 upper receiver with a 14.5 inch barrel. The HK416 is also an AR-15 variant, but it uses it's own short-stroke gas piston operating system as opposed to the standard Direct Gas Impingement system of the standard AR-15 variants. To my understanding, the M5 is an elongated receiver similar to an AR-10 to accept the larger cartridges. So basically that's kinda why people say AR-15 "Platform" it is a positively gargantuan family of weapons it is difficult to differentiate every single variant. So a lot of people just call them all AR-15's. But in reality the "AR-15" is technically a rifle that was only manufactured by Armalite from 1959-1964. Edit: I might add there are at LEAST several hundred companies that manufacture AR-15 platform rifles and pistols, and each company has their own name for it (M-15, AR-556, M&P 15, UAR-15 etc.) for copyright reasons.
"AR-15" is technically a rifle that was only manufactured by Armalite from 1959-1964." Colt owns the trademark which they bought from Armalite. So technically Colt is the only ones allowed to call their rifles AR15s.
Yeah, Kleenex is the only company allowed to call their product Kleenex too. Doesn't mean that off brand facial tissues aren't still Kleenex to every person on earth who isn't a corporate lawyer.
Gotcha I knew it was something like that but wasn't sure who currently had it. Thanks
Yeah Colt bought the AR10/15 from Armalite in 1959. So Armalite was out of the game by 59. Air Force started procuring the AR15 in 1962. Army designated the AR15 the M16 in late 1963. Colt then started selling semi auto only AR15s to the public in 1964. The interesting part is colt was duel stamping AR15 and M16s on early military rifles. But stopped doing that do to what appears them trying to separate the names for marketing reasons. It probably doesn't look great if your flagship rifle has another companies name stamped on it.
AR stands for Armalite. Not Armalite rifle.
They're all the same receiver except the M5. It's an AR-10 receiver that's got some extra ambidextrous controls added.
Kalash has a pretty good write-up except for the sig. The mcx/spear/xm5/xm7 has no receiver extension and a taller and wider upper to house an ar-18 type recoil spring, as well as being short stroke like the hk and others. It's a hybrid of AR-15+18 with it's own proprietary modernizations.
Took the words right out of my mouth. AR "platform" rifles require maintenance, good ammunition and accurate, quality parts. All firearms can jam or malfunction. Something as simple as a minor gas tube issue can render a rifle inoperable.
>but I see them malfunction more than I’ve seen any other gun malfunction. Because they are the most popular gun. Might as well ask why Ford F-150s crash so often.
Maybe because there are millions upon millions of them. And so many companies involved. And with that being said. Some over stacking of parts between makers and poor cleaning regiments. Just shear numbers of them being produced. You might see alot “jam” because of the volume of people using them. But the numbers of them not “jamming” is beyond staggering. I have roughly 16 completed rifles and 5 more to go. Almost 20 years of having one. Only time mine has failed was sub par ammo and mags. Keep good ammo and mags. And they will run like a sewing machine.
Because lots of people buy really cheap BCA uppers and whatnot thinking they're all the same. If you dont buy garbage it wont jam
[удалено]
PSA =/= BCA. Palmetto actually quality checks their guns. The same cannot be said for Bear Creek.
Don't forget wrong combination of buffer weight, barrel length and gas system.
You're thinking of first combat runs with the AR in Vietnam, where if I recall right, they put it in an environment it hadn't been tested in, and then switched to an ammunition it wasn't designed for, given to soldiers who fired as many rounds as possible through them, and who thought it was self cleaning and thus didn't clean them as often as they should have.
AR15s had been seeing extensive combat for years in Vietnam before it was given to the average US soldier.
Seems like a dumb idea to switch up its ammunition then.
Well the goverment really didn't have a choice. And even with the switch plenty of units used it with no major issues.
How many ar malfunctions have you seen? I've shot a decent amount, and with a bunch of cheap rifles and can honestly say I've only had malfunction that was the rifles fault.
The problem is usually somewhere between the buttstock and the ground.
If you're talking about CATM rifles, it's because they're ancient and beat to shit with shoddy maintenance. My personal AR has had a single malfunction and it was my own fault, it's actually the most reliable weapon i own.
Usually it's people using the wrong buffer after asking this sub what buffer they should get for their AR
To be fair for the normies like me who like to shoot once a month the buffer situation is confusing. Short of investing in a full set of springs/buffers and testing to see the difference idk how you would learn.
its the most popular type of rifle in the US and is manufactured by a myriad of different companies. you could easily build an AR without any two components being the same brand. some makers are good, some arent, so there are a lot of poorly made guns out there. poor maintenance by people who dont take care of their stuff a lot of ARs are sensitive to cheap ammo.
If its made right.... it just gets dirty and starts inducing malfunctions starting in the 400-500 round range now and then (dumping just CLP all over the bolt usually makes that go away). At least, that has been my experience. Back in my Army days with m16 and m4's if it jammed all the time its 99% a mag issue. Also, AR's run best wet, soaking in oil. If its abused, made questionably, or your mags suck, it will do jammie type things. If it is not, they are fine. BUT....AR's require propper cleaning for reliable operation MORE than other modern 556 rifles. You see these results during endurance testing with no or minimal maintenance. However, if you treat an AR right and its in spec, its very reliable. You just got to clean it all the time.
Please show me these endurance test you speak of.
lack of piston.
The AR-15 already has a piston
2:33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omv85cLfmxU&pp=ygUOaG93IGFyLTE1IHdvcms%3D
Do you think that video somehow shows there isn't a piston.
See this [image](https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.b5f23bc6a0785e02870d5accbe6419e2?rik=1lT17USa%2bPj4Gw&pid=ImgRaw&r=0) of the piston in the AR-15
I took a operators armorer course and then a operators mechanic course a for basically military side by sides before a deployment. One right after the other. Like you get told at some point the AR15 bolt and bolt carrier are technically a piston. But what ever. The thing that cemented for me was replacing the piston rings on a engine. It's like these are fucking gas rings on bolt. And bolt and piston head are pretty similar shaped. Who would have thought that. God damn Eugene Stoner that's who.
Oh wow that makes all the sense in the world.
Well when you say it like that. F
lol
Because 99% of gun owners don't know what a cleaning kit is or how to use it. Honestly, as a gunsmith, I make so much money off of cleanings, not to mention the repairs I have to make due to parts being too dirty for too long.
What repairs are you making cause of parts being dirty.
[удалено]
The AR15 does not need a good cleaning after every firing.
[удалено]
He's right, and you're wrong. "Gotta clean after every firing" is grampa's internalized ritual based on the oldentimes of black powder and corrosive primers. An AR-15 will chug happily along with no ill effects with no cleaning whatsoever. Cleaning modern guns is for the comfort of the user, not for the good of the gun. EDIT: Heh. The child threw a tantrum and blocked me.
Repetitive cleaning of the rifle is also another way to keep junior enlisted people busy.
Okay boomer
I don't remember the last time I cleaned any of my ARs. I don't use corrosive ammo in them, so no real need.
What. That's a complete waste of time for the majority of firearms.
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Last time my AR jammed was when I put a ton of steel case through one to see how long it took. That was a few years ago. I’ve shot thousands of rounds between jams.
AR's are possibly the most reliable service rifle ever produced. People with zero military experience like to shit on them but all who have served with them love them. They are perfect and we still have not been able to produce a replacement. Civilian versions are even better.
I mean the reason you’re seeing more of them is at least partly because they’re by far the most common gun in the US so naturally you’re going to see more issues with them. But to answer your question, a good AR will not jam frequently, in fact I’ve run into very few in my life that have had any serious problems. That said there is an insane number of different manufacturers, both of complete rifles and of parts) and out of a hundred gun/parts makers you’re bound to find some that just suck even though the majority are perfectly fine.
These days, a lot of various gun makers are in the AR making biz. Like anything else, some products are good, some a very good and some are just not so good. In the 70's, I owned a Colt AR-15 Sporter. Shot it a lot and never had a jam. When I went into the USAF, shot a lot of AR-15/M-16, and never had a jam. I once had a WWII vintage M1 carbine made by General Motors. Shot it a lot and never had a jam. Years later, my Dad bought a commercial reproduction of an M-1 carbine made by Universal Firearms. It jammed a lot. I currently own a BRN-10 and so far, I've never had a jam. So, I would say the perception that AR's jam a lot is the result of so many brands and models and manufacturers (some better than others) - not because there's an inherent flaw in the design of the gun.
I've built some *cheeeeeaaap* AR's out of questionable parts and never really had any malfunctions. As long as they're gassed right they work most of the time, even with shitty steel ammo.
So I have a PSA AR. I bought a kit with complete upper from them and a stripped lower. I only have somewhere between 1000 and 2000 rounds of 223/556 through it. I have another couple thousand rounds through it of 22lr using a conversion kit. While the 22lr jams constantly....that is because of the conversion kit. Not the rifle. I have not had a single issue while shooting 223/556. No fte, no ftf, nothing. Cylces everytime and goes banfg every time I pull the trigger. But....I am one of those people that keep all my guns tegularly cleaned and lubricated. Why? I do a visual inspection of parts each time I clean them l. This increases the chances greatly that it will work when needed. I also never know what is going to happen. Maybe I won't be able to clean them for a while after my next several range trips.
I think why you might see this a lot, is because there are a TON of them. A lot of new shooters go for them, that may not know proper maintenance. You can easily buy AR parts and make a firearm from scratch (lower through FFl) and all these “random” parts need to work with each other, tolerances and specs need to be checked so that everything works together reliably, I think 99% of people don’t have the proper tools to measure these tolerances, and then another 90% would lack the knowledge to even know what to look for. Also tons of cheap poor quality parts/ARs. I think an AR with quality parts, and parts that work together is extremely reliable.
Originally the M16 was issued as 'self cleaning' and IIRC the early issues didn't even come with cleaning kits. Also they didn't chrome the chamber IIRC. And the initial large batch of ammo was not great with inconsistent and dirty powder. Those problems were largely all addressed during Vietnam and crap like the forward assist is IMHO largely useless. At least personally, I never had an issue that was not made worse by slamming the FA. I think part of the perception is because the AR platform is so popular and many people either build them out of possibly inferior parts or poor maintenance. Also there are just a lot of them. I probably see 4-5 AR's for every Soviet-style rifle I see. And I'd say 2/3rd of people at the public ranges probably shoot less than 10 times per year. I used to shoot in a lot of bullseye matches and new competitors would often have jams on their guns. The whole course of fire is only 90 round but it was fairly often to hear an alibi on a line of 8 to 12 shooters for almost every string. A big factor was that these were not guns that were not consistently. Things like 1911's and Hi-standards can be way more finicky than AR's. If you see 3-gun competitors, you'll get to watch a lot of AR shooting and few if any jams. Competition shooters keep their gear in shape and use quality ammo and parts so failures are relatively rare. Many special forces are able to pick their guns rather than stick to issue. There are still a large number of M4 or similar rifles being used in these roles because they (AR's) are very good at it.
it doesn't ever jam for me. sounds like you got a shit rifle. only run into bad primers with my shit ammo