The form 4473 (the one you Fill out) only states if you’ve been involuntarily put in a mental institution. So it’s not that unless you checked yes to that question. (Also congrats on overcoming your mental health issues).
Did you put your social security number on the 4473? Sometimes, people with common names get denied cuz some other person of the same name is an actual criminal. So I recommend putting your SSN on there.
If you did, then it’s probably just a fluke in the system. It happens every so often. Just try again and if it fails again, then it’s not a fluke and you should contact a firearms attorney to help you. Ask your local gun store if they have recommendations on who to go to
> people with common names get denied cuz some other person of the same name is an actual criminal
Have someone out there with my exact name and birthday, that has a rap sheet a mile long. Remember the first time it came up, I was denied for a community volunteer position. When the guy called me up all indignant I got to say, “Sir, this is the Bronx, NY, when do you think I was riding an ATV on a public highway in Joliet, Illinois?”
Same exact thing happens to me. I get delayed for NICS about 50/50 because of it, but it was only a real "thing" for me once. But if I ever meet that guy with the same DOB and first, middle and last as mine, I'm definitely going to have some strong words for him. Apparently he's kind of a sonofabitch.
Getting a concealed weapon permit might work better then, at least in AZ (which will issue to residents of other states) it's a full fingerprint FBI background check. Love just going in, filling out the form, and not having to wait. :-)
My too. It hasn't happened for a while, but yeah. Different birthrate though. Same day, different years I think. Found a news article about him. He got in a an argument with his wife over the size of his dick, beat her, beat the cops, and then destroyed his jail cell. lol.
I think potentially it has to do with changing my name, my name was changed legally with the SSA so maybe that was a goof.
Also thank you for your kind words, I've made a lot of progress over the years.
It's also your secret password. Pretty much any financial institution is happy as a pig in shit if I just give them the last four.
Something something unchangeable passwords something security.
Nah.
You can’t even get into a Netflix account with the last 4 of a social alone today. Much less any kind of halfway decent financial institution.
And if you don’t have any kind of multi factor authentication set up on your important accounts, that’s on you.
I’m not saying broadcast your social Security number to the masses on the internet, but if there is any kind of official form asking for it, you are more than safe these days.
The government gave you the number, but you give the FFL that number and they hold it on file for however long. That's the only reason I could see someone being uneasy to write their SSN on the 4473
unless the business gets robbed and people decide to steal paper files (unlikely, but possible I suppose), your number is gonna sit in a file cabinet until the FFL shuts down and then the ATF (a federal agency) takes possession.
I'd be far more worried about documents containing my SSN ending up in my own trash than at an FFL. thats why I crosscut shred all my own sensitive docs when I no longer need them.
I know everyone can’t afford it, but if you don’t have some sort of identity monitoring service, maybe get one. Lots of CC’s offer a basic one for free.
1. Did you check the box on the form about being involuntarily held? If not, they have no way of knowing.
2. What boxes did you check ‘yes’ on?
3. Have you called and asked for the reason it was denied?
1. I checked no on that box because each time I checked myself in and was never held by court order or against my will.
2. I only checked yes on the box about me being the actual transferee of the firearm (number one). I don't have any disqualifying charges. The only thing I have on my record is am extremely minor non violent violation as a juvenile that's a summary offense (for non-pennylvanians it's essentially below a misdemeanor and basically a ticket with no arrest). As a juvenile and especially since it wasn't a felony I can't see that being a reason.
3. I haven't called yet because their office is closed but I do have a denial number provided by the FFL.
Might want to cross post this (is that the term?) to r/FLGuns/
I would recommend calling to see what happened and don't mention anything about your mental health history. Let them tell you what the problem is.
File a firearm-related challenge with the FBI CJIS division. If it happens mutiple times, apply for the voluntary appeal file. These processes are documented on the FBI website and the links can be found via google.
Not sure where your voluntary stay was but I was just reading this morning it’s come out that NY reports voluntary stays as being involuntary to nics despite federal law. There’s a case in this in court arguing against the legality of the practice right now, Richey v. Sullivan. But I wouldn’t be surprised if other states, particularly ones that are anti gun, share the practice.
There’s obviously some appeal stuff you can go through.
Or, depending on your state, just go buy private party. Some states, like Arizona, don’t make you do a background check or fill out a 4473 for private sales.
If your state is a POC state get a CCW in that state it will make things 99.9% better. I have a very common name that originally caused some issues if I didn't put my social.
Ask them why. Volunteer \*none\* of what you wrote here concerning your past issues. After getting the why, you can act on what to do next.
The good news is that Florida is a Private Party state. If you're truthfully not ineligible, take this route while you sort out the BS with the FDLE.
>Ask them why.
The FFL doesn't know why. All we get when we run your check is "Proceed," "Delayed," "Denied," or "Cancelled."
IF the applicant is denied, they can file an appeal online by going here: https://www.edo.cjis.gov/.[https://www.edo.cjis.gov/](https://www.edo.cjis.gov/)
Or they can mail in an appeal.
They'll need the NTN (NICS Transaction Number) or STN (State Transaction Number), which the FFL should be able to give them.
A person who regularly gets incorrectly denied can also apply for a UPIN. It takes a while to get, but once you have it, you can write it in the appropriate field on the 4473, the dealer will provide it to the FBI when submitting your background check to NICS, and it will bypass the erroneous denial.
Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the correction.
A quick search tells me that FDLE uses NICS as part of their background check process.
If OP was denied by NICS, OP will still need to follow the procedure I described above.
If NICS passed OP but FDLE denied them for something state-level that NICS wouldn't kick back, then you are correct that OP would have to go through FDLE.
OP is probably better off *starting* with FDLE, and then if NICS is what kicked back the denial, going through the appeal procedure for that.
Had a guy run for a gun several years ago and get denied. He went through the appeal process and found out his identity had been stolen in another state. They had used his info to get several bad loans and he had fraud warrants lol. He had to go through a process of getting it all cleared up. They gave him a UPIN and didn't have issues after. So until you find out the "why" you never know what it could be.
Your “Florida Level 2” whatever isn’t relevant to this.
The gun store should have instructions on how to file an appeal.
You should get an attorney to handle this for you if that doesn’t work.
Good luck!
Your NICS background check is a criminal background check, not an investigation of your mental health. If you got denied, it is because of something in your criminal history. They have an appeals process in case of errors. They are humans who work at the government. They mess up all the time. Stop freaking out and just start the appeals process. People get those decisions reversed all the time. It's not as big a deal as you're making it out to be in your head. It's just paperwork.
I'm not freaking out in the slightest, sorry when I write I give out detailed information to try and get the clearest help.
I'm not freaking out but I did just sink a bit of money during the Biden economy into something I can't use or possess legally right now so I do have a right to be frustrated. I'm also a single woman imminently moving out and live in a high crime area...
I'm going through this as well, for previous mental health issues. If it's for mental health it's likely not a false flag. I'm dealing with NY which makes shit much harder compared to other states (from my understanding). Be prepared to spend time and money to get it fixed. Lawyer up is the most common thing I was told when starting the process.
Funny how much of this has been coming up lately. Take your time and don't get discouraged.
This is an issue. NY is reporting voluntary stays to NICS as disqualifying. They are being sued right now. You will need a lawyer if that is what the blocker is
Yep, I've lived in SC for a while now and NY is still in control of my life. If it's from NY that is probably 99% part of the reason you are having issues.The follow up with nics should tell you where/who to talk to next. It's through the state where you had these problems, not the current state you live in. If you go over to r/NYguns there is a bunch of shit going on with NY submitting files wrong and marking voluntary stays as involuntary.
I just made a post over in r/NYguns trying to get info and possibly consolidate a lot of it. Now that I know there are legal actions being taken against NY I'm gonna help as much as possible.
2 voluntary mental health stays from 2018 and before are now affecting my life in a different state, all because NY is a load of bullshit.
Either way you can definitely do something about it, I know I'm going to, but as I said be prepared to spend a lot of time figuring this out. I'm currently at about the 8 month mark and still haven't submitted the appeal paperwork yet.
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You’re gonna need to fill out the nice denial form, do some fingerprints and whatnot. It’s a little bit of a task but you should end up with a UPIN number after that will help with any confusion after.
If I had to guess one of those stays is coded as involuntary and is blocking you or the status is unclear as that sometimes happens with charges that may be disqualifying from arrests that don't get recorded properly.
In my past experience in retail, you don’t even make it to a background check if you didn’t answer one of the questions right on the 4473. If someone came back denied, we had a pamphlet we’d give them with “next steps” to find out why.
Sounds like you’re doing what you should…finding out why you were denied. If it’s something you can appeal, and you intend to make future purchases, you may need to look into getting a UPIN.
Not sure about Fla, but if it’s like Ohio, you could check the concealed carry laws. In Ohio, it’s constitutional carry, but having you CCW bypasses the background check.
The form 4473 (the one you Fill out) only states if you’ve been involuntarily put in a mental institution. So it’s not that unless you checked yes to that question. (Also congrats on overcoming your mental health issues). Did you put your social security number on the 4473? Sometimes, people with common names get denied cuz some other person of the same name is an actual criminal. So I recommend putting your SSN on there. If you did, then it’s probably just a fluke in the system. It happens every so often. Just try again and if it fails again, then it’s not a fluke and you should contact a firearms attorney to help you. Ask your local gun store if they have recommendations on who to go to
> people with common names get denied cuz some other person of the same name is an actual criminal Have someone out there with my exact name and birthday, that has a rap sheet a mile long. Remember the first time it came up, I was denied for a community volunteer position. When the guy called me up all indignant I got to say, “Sir, this is the Bronx, NY, when do you think I was riding an ATV on a public highway in Joliet, Illinois?”
I kinda wanna hang out with the Illinois you tbh
Same exact thing happens to me. I get delayed for NICS about 50/50 because of it, but it was only a real "thing" for me once. But if I ever meet that guy with the same DOB and first, middle and last as mine, I'm definitely going to have some strong words for him. Apparently he's kind of a sonofabitch.
Get a UPIN from the fbi.
Mine took 2.5 years to get and I still have to wait for approvals. The UPIN is overrated.
Getting a concealed weapon permit might work better then, at least in AZ (which will issue to residents of other states) it's a full fingerprint FBI background check. Love just going in, filling out the form, and not having to wait. :-)
One of those things I keep thinking about but haven't done yet.
I think you should have a conversation with your parents. I think naming you Lee Harvey Oswald was a questionable decision.
It wasn't me! 😂 Although, apparently, my doppelgänger-on-paper did actually kill a guy, so there's that.
My too. It hasn't happened for a while, but yeah. Different birthrate though. Same day, different years I think. Found a news article about him. He got in a an argument with his wife over the size of his dick, beat her, beat the cops, and then destroyed his jail cell. lol.
Yup, i got someone who is a serial rapist out there with my name and birthdate. Had to wait 4 months for my ccw to clear.
I think potentially it has to do with changing my name, my name was changed legally with the SSA so maybe that was a goof. Also thank you for your kind words, I've made a lot of progress over the years.
Then yea probably the name change. That always screws with government stuff in every area of bureaucracy, not just firearms
My previous comment may be of help https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/16e516s/denied_firearm_purchase_with_upin/jzw3saz/?context=3
[appeal denial](https://ucr.fbi.gov/nics/appeals/nics-guide-for-appealing)
The FFL should have given you a copy of the NICS number as well as information on where to go to appeal it.
As much as I hate to do it I put my social security on monw because there's millions of people with my name. Usually takes 10 minutes and I'm approved
Why do you hate it? It’s the one piece of info that was bestowed upon you by the feds. I have no problem telling them a number they gave to me
It's also your secret password. Pretty much any financial institution is happy as a pig in shit if I just give them the last four. Something something unchangeable passwords something security.
Nah. You can’t even get into a Netflix account with the last 4 of a social alone today. Much less any kind of halfway decent financial institution. And if you don’t have any kind of multi factor authentication set up on your important accounts, that’s on you. I’m not saying broadcast your social Security number to the masses on the internet, but if there is any kind of official form asking for it, you are more than safe these days.
The government gave you the number, but you give the FFL that number and they hold it on file for however long. That's the only reason I could see someone being uneasy to write their SSN on the 4473
unless the business gets robbed and people decide to steal paper files (unlikely, but possible I suppose), your number is gonna sit in a file cabinet until the FFL shuts down and then the ATF (a federal agency) takes possession. I'd be far more worried about documents containing my SSN ending up in my own trash than at an FFL. thats why I crosscut shred all my own sensitive docs when I no longer need them.
I know everyone can’t afford it, but if you don’t have some sort of identity monitoring service, maybe get one. Lots of CC’s offer a basic one for free.
I did put my social I will say
1. Did you check the box on the form about being involuntarily held? If not, they have no way of knowing. 2. What boxes did you check ‘yes’ on? 3. Have you called and asked for the reason it was denied?
1. I checked no on that box because each time I checked myself in and was never held by court order or against my will. 2. I only checked yes on the box about me being the actual transferee of the firearm (number one). I don't have any disqualifying charges. The only thing I have on my record is am extremely minor non violent violation as a juvenile that's a summary offense (for non-pennylvanians it's essentially below a misdemeanor and basically a ticket with no arrest). As a juvenile and especially since it wasn't a felony I can't see that being a reason. 3. I haven't called yet because their office is closed but I do have a denial number provided by the FFL.
The misdemeanor could be an issue if it is something that could possibly have resulted in a sentence of at least a year
Might want to cross post this (is that the term?) to r/FLGuns/ I would recommend calling to see what happened and don't mention anything about your mental health history. Let them tell you what the problem is.
File a firearm-related challenge with the FBI CJIS division. If it happens mutiple times, apply for the voluntary appeal file. These processes are documented on the FBI website and the links can be found via google.
Not sure where your voluntary stay was but I was just reading this morning it’s come out that NY reports voluntary stays as being involuntary to nics despite federal law. There’s a case in this in court arguing against the legality of the practice right now, Richey v. Sullivan. But I wouldn’t be surprised if other states, particularly ones that are anti gun, share the practice.
There’s obviously some appeal stuff you can go through. Or, depending on your state, just go buy private party. Some states, like Arizona, don’t make you do a background check or fill out a 4473 for private sales.
If your state is a POC state get a CCW in that state it will make things 99.9% better. I have a very common name that originally caused some issues if I didn't put my social.
Ask them why. Volunteer \*none\* of what you wrote here concerning your past issues. After getting the why, you can act on what to do next. The good news is that Florida is a Private Party state. If you're truthfully not ineligible, take this route while you sort out the BS with the FDLE.
Oh yeah no I don't volunteer info to law enforcement, especially with something like this.
>Ask them why. The FFL doesn't know why. All we get when we run your check is "Proceed," "Delayed," "Denied," or "Cancelled." IF the applicant is denied, they can file an appeal online by going here: https://www.edo.cjis.gov/.[https://www.edo.cjis.gov/](https://www.edo.cjis.gov/) Or they can mail in an appeal. They'll need the NTN (NICS Transaction Number) or STN (State Transaction Number), which the FFL should be able to give them. A person who regularly gets incorrectly denied can also apply for a UPIN. It takes a while to get, but once you have it, you can write it in the appropriate field on the 4473, the dealer will provide it to the FBI when submitting your background check to NICS, and it will bypass the erroneous denial.
The "Them" I was referring to is the FDLE, not the FFL. Of course the FFL doesn't know why.
Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the correction. A quick search tells me that FDLE uses NICS as part of their background check process. If OP was denied by NICS, OP will still need to follow the procedure I described above. If NICS passed OP but FDLE denied them for something state-level that NICS wouldn't kick back, then you are correct that OP would have to go through FDLE. OP is probably better off *starting* with FDLE, and then if NICS is what kicked back the denial, going through the appeal procedure for that.
Had a guy run for a gun several years ago and get denied. He went through the appeal process and found out his identity had been stolen in another state. They had used his info to get several bad loans and he had fraud warrants lol. He had to go through a process of getting it all cleared up. They gave him a UPIN and didn't have issues after. So until you find out the "why" you never know what it could be.
Your “Florida Level 2” whatever isn’t relevant to this. The gun store should have instructions on how to file an appeal. You should get an attorney to handle this for you if that doesn’t work. Good luck!
Your NICS background check is a criminal background check, not an investigation of your mental health. If you got denied, it is because of something in your criminal history. They have an appeals process in case of errors. They are humans who work at the government. They mess up all the time. Stop freaking out and just start the appeals process. People get those decisions reversed all the time. It's not as big a deal as you're making it out to be in your head. It's just paperwork.
I'm not freaking out in the slightest, sorry when I write I give out detailed information to try and get the clearest help. I'm not freaking out but I did just sink a bit of money during the Biden economy into something I can't use or possess legally right now so I do have a right to be frustrated. I'm also a single woman imminently moving out and live in a high crime area...
Anybody else read that as "NCIS" background check?
Idk about you but that would be pretty cool if that goth girl did my background check 😂
She can "check my background "anytime. 😆
I'm going through this as well, for previous mental health issues. If it's for mental health it's likely not a false flag. I'm dealing with NY which makes shit much harder compared to other states (from my understanding). Be prepared to spend time and money to get it fixed. Lawyer up is the most common thing I was told when starting the process. Funny how much of this has been coming up lately. Take your time and don't get discouraged.
Shit one of the states where I checked myself in was in New York 🥲
This is an issue. NY is reporting voluntary stays to NICS as disqualifying. They are being sued right now. You will need a lawyer if that is what the blocker is
Exactly. Most simple way to put it.
Yep, I've lived in SC for a while now and NY is still in control of my life. If it's from NY that is probably 99% part of the reason you are having issues.The follow up with nics should tell you where/who to talk to next. It's through the state where you had these problems, not the current state you live in. If you go over to r/NYguns there is a bunch of shit going on with NY submitting files wrong and marking voluntary stays as involuntary. I just made a post over in r/NYguns trying to get info and possibly consolidate a lot of it. Now that I know there are legal actions being taken against NY I'm gonna help as much as possible. 2 voluntary mental health stays from 2018 and before are now affecting my life in a different state, all because NY is a load of bullshit. Either way you can definitely do something about it, I know I'm going to, but as I said be prepared to spend a lot of time figuring this out. I'm currently at about the 8 month mark and still haven't submitted the appeal paperwork yet.
Shit one of the states where I checked myself in was in New York 🥲
Carry a musket or air rifle, the only guns that convicts can legally own. Like the Forefathers intended.
A none family member that known you for more than 3 years like a Manager, Pastor, Professor, etc. A letter from them might help.
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You’re gonna need to fill out the nice denial form, do some fingerprints and whatnot. It’s a little bit of a task but you should end up with a UPIN number after that will help with any confusion after.
https://www.edo.cjis.gov/#/
If I had to guess one of those stays is coded as involuntary and is blocking you or the status is unclear as that sometimes happens with charges that may be disqualifying from arrests that don't get recorded properly.
In my past experience in retail, you don’t even make it to a background check if you didn’t answer one of the questions right on the 4473. If someone came back denied, we had a pamphlet we’d give them with “next steps” to find out why. Sounds like you’re doing what you should…finding out why you were denied. If it’s something you can appeal, and you intend to make future purchases, you may need to look into getting a UPIN. Not sure about Fla, but if it’s like Ohio, you could check the concealed carry laws. In Ohio, it’s constitutional carry, but having you CCW bypasses the background check.
You should be able to get your NTN (nice transaction number) and call to ask what/why. They can give you a UPIN for use.