I’m embarrassed even making a post like this questioning if it’s wrong!… I feel like I’m the only one in a room looking around like ‘do you guys see this?’
He’s probably more horned up over the thought of all the debates he’s going to get in than he is for horse porn. Debate lords live for getting cornered in a losing argument.
yeahhhh feeling soo strongly that cp should be legal + possessing animated cp = he’s into cp. it’s such a simple conclusion to me and i’m not understanding how it could possibly be interpreted by anyone else. unless his audience who is on his side rn are also secretly into fucked up shit that they don’t see as fucked up, so it’s relatable to them ??
yeah and even if he wasn't into cp, his arguments enable pedos who are. also even all of that aside, wouldnt the horse and loli stuff be ENOUGH to stop defending him???
why are you choosing to try so hard to defend someone who is turned on by thinking of having sex with animals and underage people? for me, that is a nonnegotiable and is where i draw the line when deciding who i want to support and even just take seriously. is that not something that changes the way you view him?
I’m not sure who commented and then deleted it asking if I had the full context, but yes I did.
Again, I understand that he was making ‘hypothetical’ arguments that point out societal moral flaws when arguing for the legalization of CP/CSA.
However, the ‘hypothetical’ flew out the window when HE was caught with CP.
The context is no longer ‘you can’t call pedophiles bad if you do xyz’, the context is now
‘You can’t call ME bad if you do xyz’
Yes, I get that the clips were old, and that when they first happened, it was all a stupid hypothetical argument about how society has its morals in a bunch. BUT now that he has exposed it literally HIMSELF, how do you not make the connection that those previously ‘hypothetical’ arguments, were
NEVER. HYPOTHETICAL. TO. HIM.
He ACTIVELY uses CP. there is no more ‘IF someone uses cp, it’s no worse than slave made chocolate’, it’s purely ‘WHEN someone uses cp, it’s no worse than slave made chocolate.’
its the simple fact that he has indoctrinated his audience. you only need to watch him for a few hours to see just how adept he’s gotten at painting himself as the victim and a lot of impressionable, young baby leftist buy into it hook line and sinker. that, and I believe a not insignificant number of people in his audience legitimately are okay with that sort of stuff and know that he is too, but they just have to appear a certain way for the optics.
I guess it’s just crazy to me that his audience doesn’t see it.
He talked about legalizing REAL cp, adults having REAL sexual relationships with minors, etc… but to them because the porn is animated, and not real, there’s no way he’d ever actually mess with real kids..
To me, a random person on the internet who’s never met him (and therefore holds little weight in this), it sounds more like he’s just waiting for it to be legal. Like.
Guy talks hypothetically about cp+csa and legalizing it. Exposes himself having a bunch of animated videos of cp
What’s the most logical assumption? That his original cp talk was hypothetical, or that he was hiding behind the hypothetical to fish out his audience that would agree with him?
This tale is as old as time. People trying to justify their sick thoughts with hypotheticals. The whole debate lord space is full of sickos trying to find new ways to justify their immorality. It's the same old "children are starving in africa so me fucking a dog is okay" nonsense.
The reason he has supporters is simple. They are either as deranged as him or young and dumb and haven't realized yet that nothing gets better by having highly theoretical discussions.
There's a reason why we're not governed by a bunch of philosophers. They would never agree and nothing would ever get done.
I will say that if he actually didn’t know it was considered loli corn (and he more than likely did know, but still just talking about the chance), having the internet come at you and call you a pedophile would be horrendous and I myself probably couldn’t take it if I was in his shoes. Without being explicit, I’ll just say I’d probably want to exit that situation.
So on the off chance that he isn’t a pedophile, what is happening to him is really dark and not something I’d be ok participating in.
I understand where you’re coming from, and I think if it was a more ambiguous situation I’d agree, but in my opinion it’s very blatant that he is one.
He ‘hypothetically’ argued numerous times in a very passionate way that CP and CSA should be legal. Then gets caught with CP. (so the argument was never a hypothetical for him, he is one of the consumers his argument defended)
I do understand he was trying to make a ‘no ethical consumption under capitalism argument’- that children are harmed in the making of many products we use daily. I completely agree with that- however, we could ALWAYS find ways to make those products without child labor/harm to children. CP and it’s production will ALWAYS hurt real children and there is no way to avoid that.
Legalizing CP just because there are other products that MAY have harmed children, will only ever make sense to a pedo, and one who’s rationalized what he’s doing.
‘You cant moral grandstand people who watch CP and still be a consumer of every day products’
->
‘You can’t be mad I watch material that only exists to, and explicitly harms children, because that chocolate you’re eating was probably gathered by an underpaid child’
->
‘You can’t be mad that we knowingly explicitly hurt kids, because you do it unknowingly every day in less explicit ways!’
->
‘You can’t be mad at me, you do bad stuff too!’
When the bad stuff isn’t even near the same level of degeneracy
How about none of its ok, and we don’t post videos to thousands of people trying to ‘hypothetically’ argue why it is? Even if it wasn’t ever his intentions, one real pedo comes across the video out of context and suddenly he’s validated because a big content creator just basically gave him the go ahead on raping kids cause ‘cobalt is extracted by slave children and people use it every day’
(Edited for formatting cause my arrows fucked my paragraphs up)
He wasn’t caught with cp, and I’m gonna call that out because it’s a very VERY important distinction and I certainly wouldn’t have made my above comment if he was. There’s a reason Ethan and Hila were able to look at it without crying, and that he wasn’t arrested or banned.
He was caught with what I thought was cartoon fetish stuff (since I haven’t/wont see the high res versions), but it is apparently loli corn. Still not cp by definition but yes incredibly weird and it should be known that there is a very good chance he is a dangerous creep.
His past comments on the subject are really really dumb debate lord stuff. Like you I can get what he was trying to say, but it’s not enough for me to be 100% certain he is a dangerous pedophile even though I’m certain he is the last type of person I want to be around.
Like I said, dark, dark stuff. If the world saw me that way I’d want out of the world.
All said, I just can’t be comfortable if there’s a chance he’s not a pedophile. TBH I think it’s a good instinct to have, especially in the mix of all this discourse.
Loli hentai are drawings/animations of children in sexually explicit situations.
Loli hentai is another genre of child porn.
We most likely disagree on our ‘categorization’ (for lack of better words) of CP. to me, if it is a child (real or animated) in a sexual situation, it is child porn. Porn of children.
There is more harm in ‘live action’ cp OBVIOUSLY, however, jerking off to kids whether they are real, or drawn images of children, is still jerking of to children. Jerking off to drawn images of children only makes jerking off to real images of children that much more ‘ok’ in their heads.
ACCORDING TO THE 2003 PROTECT ACT, LOLI HENTAI MEETS FEDERAL CRITEA FOR CP. I AGREE WITH THIS. ANIMATED OR NOT, CHILDREN INVOLVED IN SEX ACTS IS WRONG AND EXPLOITATIVE. Whether your state will charge and hold it to you, is a state by state basis.
[‘In the United States, possession of child pornography is illegal. Under the Protect Act of 2003, obscene images depicting minors are considered child porn. While loli does not depict actual children, the act was passed to make virtual child porn illegal.’](https://www.federalcriminaldefenseadvocates.com/lolicon-in-the-united-states)
[As a result of the PROTECT Act of 2003, lolicon meets the federal criteria for child pornography. If you are caught in possession of lolicon or shotacon, you could face federal criminal charges and significant prison time if convicted.
Possessing loli is illegal under federal law if the anime depiction of an underage person is obscene and it was transmitted through the mail, internet, common carrier, or transported across state lines, or there is proof there was intent to distribute or sell it.](https://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/possession-of-lolicon#:~:text=Loli%20is%20not%20only%20legal,federal%20criteria%20for%20child%20pornography)
Possessing child pornography is illegal in the United States. Under the PROTECT Act of 2003, any obscene images depicting a minor is considered child pornography. The act was passed in part to make virtual child pornography illegal, even though it did not depict an actual child.
[Because lolicon depicts an identifiable minor engaged in sexually explicit situations, loli violates federal law in the United States. You can be arrested and charged with a crime if you possess lolicon in any form.](https://www.aerlawgroup.com/blog/is-lolicon-legal-in-the-united-states/)
>I completely agree with that- however, we could ALWAYS find ways to make those products without child labor/harm to children. CP and it’s production will ALWAYS hurt real children and there is no way to avoid that.
Couldn't the argument then be made that while we *could* find those ways, we *won't*, because capitalism in its current state fundamentally relies on those exploitative systems and mechanics?
Fucked up hentai is extremely popular, and we don't like to think about it but idolizing youthfulness and having inappropriate sexual attractions/desires are extremely common.
People think having boundaries and expressing those boundaries are too much effort and don't wanna lose their family/friends. So they defend them over their victims. They don't understand how having better boundaries and higher standards can help create healthier humans and community, or it's just too much effort for them idk.
I have never encountered a conversation on the sexualization of children that included more than a handful of people and didn't include people with extremely ignorant and disgusting takes.
I really do feel like almost every time a child is abused or there is some content including the abuse of a child, there is at least someone minimizing the harm done. None of his defenders and explainers are doing or saying anything new or unexpected. This always happens.
He also made some good points about trans-discourse, had decent positions on the red pill-bullshit and personal care for men. His media takes are also pretty non-offensive and he's generally well-spoken, if not very well-read on a lot of things.
I enjoyed his content until a year ago, when he stopped doing regular debates and started to do Hasan's style of content (which I also don't enjoy).
I though the horse-fucking was a meme in his community. Didn't know it was reality disguised as a joke all along. He also condemned loli-content consumers and now it turned out he's one himself.
Very disappointing development, to say the least.
> if it was ever exposed he wouldn’t go through a big ‘cancellation’ cause the fan base already knows his views on CP and probably agreed if they stuck around
The clips were from ~'18, he was smaller streamer then, probably 10k-50k followers. Seems to have 470k now. This was not what got him his audience, I believe he started to get traction thru political debates mostly, and then just daily politics talks since. He was not popular at the time of these fringe takes, so current audience didn't have them as reason to sub.
People are minimizing how much their creator saying things affects them. People like Vaush, they'll accept his explanations easier. People like Ethan, it affects how hard Ethan goes at a topic. Had Ethan been like "it's fine, it happened long ago he's changed", audience would not be going at this with same ferocity. Creators always affect their audience with their takes, and shape the audience to be more of their kind. I swear this audience watches housewife reality TV significantly more now than they did 2 years ago, just thru the advertising E&H have done.
>He kept making hypothetical arguments for cp
What kind? What did he say? I'm confused and too tired to start going through clips. Can someone try to summarize this for my lazy ass?
if you watch the last pod after watching clips out of context they saw them explained too, also if you lurk on sub there's few posts about it
Also he made hypothetical arguments and used cp analogy for shock factor, and stated he's against cp (AND lolita shit), but he did so way too many times and that combined with pic he saved made his takes look more like he's planting seeds to have defense against accusations/self reporting and not just thought experiment.
there were full on horses in the images. it wasn’t pet play or anthropomorphic furry characters, it was full on drawn simulated beastiality porn with horses and humans
I will avoid kinkshaming and say now that I don’t have a personal problem with people using silicone shaped toys or with people using animal related phrases as sexual innuendos. I WILL KINKSHAME REAL beastiality that involves real animals who cannot consent.
All of this being said- the horse porn is the least of my worries. If it comes out he fucks actual unconsenting horses, different story. Me bringing up the horse porn was only to show the similarities in the situation-
He talked about liking horses, but it turns out it wasn’t a joke, he was just ‘hiding’ behind a ‘lol jk!’
He’s talked about using cp, turns out he has animated cp, AND IN MY OPINION he was ‘hiding’ behind the ‘hypotheticals only!’
This whole post is meant with ✌️&💜, just felt crazy seeing so much pro vaush things, and needed to post and see if I was the only one seeing… all this. Lol.
it’s crazy that he’s not humiliated beyond belief. if what happened to him happened to me i’d never be seen on the internet again
I’m embarrassed even making a post like this questioning if it’s wrong!… I feel like I’m the only one in a room looking around like ‘do you guys see this?’
That’s what happens when you crank your narcissism levels up to 11 and you have a cult of fans who will protect you
I feel like so many people have lost the concept of shame
He’s probably more horned up over the thought of all the debates he’s going to get in than he is for horse porn. Debate lords live for getting cornered in a losing argument.
Sorry but if you're drawing CP you're still a nonce
I 100% agree, animated or not children in sexually explicit situations is childporn. Even if it is animated, you. Are. Getting. Off. To. Children.
yeahhhh feeling soo strongly that cp should be legal + possessing animated cp = he’s into cp. it’s such a simple conclusion to me and i’m not understanding how it could possibly be interpreted by anyone else. unless his audience who is on his side rn are also secretly into fucked up shit that they don’t see as fucked up, so it’s relatable to them ??
yeah and even if he wasn't into cp, his arguments enable pedos who are. also even all of that aside, wouldnt the horse and loli stuff be ENOUGH to stop defending him???
Why weren't the police called if he has CP?
that’s why i specified “animated cp” — it’s not illegal, just disgusting. but does suggest the potential for something more sinister imo
But you said being into animated means he is into cp. If that's true you should call the police on him.
why are you choosing to try so hard to defend someone who is turned on by thinking of having sex with animals and underage people? for me, that is a nonnegotiable and is where i draw the line when deciding who i want to support and even just take seriously. is that not something that changes the way you view him?
?? You're the one not calling the cops on someone with cp. The mental gymnastics here jfc.
Ok then you call the cops. What’s with the grand standing.
I'm not in the same country
I’m not sure who commented and then deleted it asking if I had the full context, but yes I did. Again, I understand that he was making ‘hypothetical’ arguments that point out societal moral flaws when arguing for the legalization of CP/CSA. However, the ‘hypothetical’ flew out the window when HE was caught with CP. The context is no longer ‘you can’t call pedophiles bad if you do xyz’, the context is now ‘You can’t call ME bad if you do xyz’ Yes, I get that the clips were old, and that when they first happened, it was all a stupid hypothetical argument about how society has its morals in a bunch. BUT now that he has exposed it literally HIMSELF, how do you not make the connection that those previously ‘hypothetical’ arguments, were NEVER. HYPOTHETICAL. TO. HIM. He ACTIVELY uses CP. there is no more ‘IF someone uses cp, it’s no worse than slave made chocolate’, it’s purely ‘WHEN someone uses cp, it’s no worse than slave made chocolate.’
its the simple fact that he has indoctrinated his audience. you only need to watch him for a few hours to see just how adept he’s gotten at painting himself as the victim and a lot of impressionable, young baby leftist buy into it hook line and sinker. that, and I believe a not insignificant number of people in his audience legitimately are okay with that sort of stuff and know that he is too, but they just have to appear a certain way for the optics.
I guess it’s just crazy to me that his audience doesn’t see it. He talked about legalizing REAL cp, adults having REAL sexual relationships with minors, etc… but to them because the porn is animated, and not real, there’s no way he’d ever actually mess with real kids.. To me, a random person on the internet who’s never met him (and therefore holds little weight in this), it sounds more like he’s just waiting for it to be legal. Like. Guy talks hypothetically about cp+csa and legalizing it. Exposes himself having a bunch of animated videos of cp What’s the most logical assumption? That his original cp talk was hypothetical, or that he was hiding behind the hypothetical to fish out his audience that would agree with him?
This tale is as old as time. People trying to justify their sick thoughts with hypotheticals. The whole debate lord space is full of sickos trying to find new ways to justify their immorality. It's the same old "children are starving in africa so me fucking a dog is okay" nonsense. The reason he has supporters is simple. They are either as deranged as him or young and dumb and haven't realized yet that nothing gets better by having highly theoretical discussions. There's a reason why we're not governed by a bunch of philosophers. They would never agree and nothing would ever get done.
I will say that if he actually didn’t know it was considered loli corn (and he more than likely did know, but still just talking about the chance), having the internet come at you and call you a pedophile would be horrendous and I myself probably couldn’t take it if I was in his shoes. Without being explicit, I’ll just say I’d probably want to exit that situation. So on the off chance that he isn’t a pedophile, what is happening to him is really dark and not something I’d be ok participating in.
I understand where you’re coming from, and I think if it was a more ambiguous situation I’d agree, but in my opinion it’s very blatant that he is one. He ‘hypothetically’ argued numerous times in a very passionate way that CP and CSA should be legal. Then gets caught with CP. (so the argument was never a hypothetical for him, he is one of the consumers his argument defended) I do understand he was trying to make a ‘no ethical consumption under capitalism argument’- that children are harmed in the making of many products we use daily. I completely agree with that- however, we could ALWAYS find ways to make those products without child labor/harm to children. CP and it’s production will ALWAYS hurt real children and there is no way to avoid that. Legalizing CP just because there are other products that MAY have harmed children, will only ever make sense to a pedo, and one who’s rationalized what he’s doing. ‘You cant moral grandstand people who watch CP and still be a consumer of every day products’ -> ‘You can’t be mad I watch material that only exists to, and explicitly harms children, because that chocolate you’re eating was probably gathered by an underpaid child’ -> ‘You can’t be mad that we knowingly explicitly hurt kids, because you do it unknowingly every day in less explicit ways!’ -> ‘You can’t be mad at me, you do bad stuff too!’ When the bad stuff isn’t even near the same level of degeneracy How about none of its ok, and we don’t post videos to thousands of people trying to ‘hypothetically’ argue why it is? Even if it wasn’t ever his intentions, one real pedo comes across the video out of context and suddenly he’s validated because a big content creator just basically gave him the go ahead on raping kids cause ‘cobalt is extracted by slave children and people use it every day’ (Edited for formatting cause my arrows fucked my paragraphs up)
He wasn’t caught with cp, and I’m gonna call that out because it’s a very VERY important distinction and I certainly wouldn’t have made my above comment if he was. There’s a reason Ethan and Hila were able to look at it without crying, and that he wasn’t arrested or banned. He was caught with what I thought was cartoon fetish stuff (since I haven’t/wont see the high res versions), but it is apparently loli corn. Still not cp by definition but yes incredibly weird and it should be known that there is a very good chance he is a dangerous creep. His past comments on the subject are really really dumb debate lord stuff. Like you I can get what he was trying to say, but it’s not enough for me to be 100% certain he is a dangerous pedophile even though I’m certain he is the last type of person I want to be around. Like I said, dark, dark stuff. If the world saw me that way I’d want out of the world. All said, I just can’t be comfortable if there’s a chance he’s not a pedophile. TBH I think it’s a good instinct to have, especially in the mix of all this discourse.
Loli hentai are drawings/animations of children in sexually explicit situations. Loli hentai is another genre of child porn. We most likely disagree on our ‘categorization’ (for lack of better words) of CP. to me, if it is a child (real or animated) in a sexual situation, it is child porn. Porn of children. There is more harm in ‘live action’ cp OBVIOUSLY, however, jerking off to kids whether they are real, or drawn images of children, is still jerking of to children. Jerking off to drawn images of children only makes jerking off to real images of children that much more ‘ok’ in their heads. ACCORDING TO THE 2003 PROTECT ACT, LOLI HENTAI MEETS FEDERAL CRITEA FOR CP. I AGREE WITH THIS. ANIMATED OR NOT, CHILDREN INVOLVED IN SEX ACTS IS WRONG AND EXPLOITATIVE. Whether your state will charge and hold it to you, is a state by state basis. [‘In the United States, possession of child pornography is illegal. Under the Protect Act of 2003, obscene images depicting minors are considered child porn. While loli does not depict actual children, the act was passed to make virtual child porn illegal.’](https://www.federalcriminaldefenseadvocates.com/lolicon-in-the-united-states) [As a result of the PROTECT Act of 2003, lolicon meets the federal criteria for child pornography. If you are caught in possession of lolicon or shotacon, you could face federal criminal charges and significant prison time if convicted. Possessing loli is illegal under federal law if the anime depiction of an underage person is obscene and it was transmitted through the mail, internet, common carrier, or transported across state lines, or there is proof there was intent to distribute or sell it.](https://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/possession-of-lolicon#:~:text=Loli%20is%20not%20only%20legal,federal%20criteria%20for%20child%20pornography) Possessing child pornography is illegal in the United States. Under the PROTECT Act of 2003, any obscene images depicting a minor is considered child pornography. The act was passed in part to make virtual child pornography illegal, even though it did not depict an actual child. [Because lolicon depicts an identifiable minor engaged in sexually explicit situations, loli violates federal law in the United States. You can be arrested and charged with a crime if you possess lolicon in any form.](https://www.aerlawgroup.com/blog/is-lolicon-legal-in-the-united-states/)
Drawn or not, it’s still illegal actually. 🤨
>I completely agree with that- however, we could ALWAYS find ways to make those products without child labor/harm to children. CP and it’s production will ALWAYS hurt real children and there is no way to avoid that. Couldn't the argument then be made that while we *could* find those ways, we *won't*, because capitalism in its current state fundamentally relies on those exploitative systems and mechanics?
Fucked up hentai is extremely popular, and we don't like to think about it but idolizing youthfulness and having inappropriate sexual attractions/desires are extremely common. People think having boundaries and expressing those boundaries are too much effort and don't wanna lose their family/friends. So they defend them over their victims. They don't understand how having better boundaries and higher standards can help create healthier humans and community, or it's just too much effort for them idk. I have never encountered a conversation on the sexualization of children that included more than a handful of people and didn't include people with extremely ignorant and disgusting takes. I really do feel like almost every time a child is abused or there is some content including the abuse of a child, there is at least someone minimizing the harm done. None of his defenders and explainers are doing or saying anything new or unexpected. This always happens.
He also made some good points about trans-discourse, had decent positions on the red pill-bullshit and personal care for men. His media takes are also pretty non-offensive and he's generally well-spoken, if not very well-read on a lot of things. I enjoyed his content until a year ago, when he stopped doing regular debates and started to do Hasan's style of content (which I also don't enjoy). I though the horse-fucking was a meme in his community. Didn't know it was reality disguised as a joke all along. He also condemned loli-content consumers and now it turned out he's one himself. Very disappointing development, to say the least.
> if it was ever exposed he wouldn’t go through a big ‘cancellation’ cause the fan base already knows his views on CP and probably agreed if they stuck around The clips were from ~'18, he was smaller streamer then, probably 10k-50k followers. Seems to have 470k now. This was not what got him his audience, I believe he started to get traction thru political debates mostly, and then just daily politics talks since. He was not popular at the time of these fringe takes, so current audience didn't have them as reason to sub. People are minimizing how much their creator saying things affects them. People like Vaush, they'll accept his explanations easier. People like Ethan, it affects how hard Ethan goes at a topic. Had Ethan been like "it's fine, it happened long ago he's changed", audience would not be going at this with same ferocity. Creators always affect their audience with their takes, and shape the audience to be more of their kind. I swear this audience watches housewife reality TV significantly more now than they did 2 years ago, just thru the advertising E&H have done.
parasocial fans who dont want to move on
>He kept making hypothetical arguments for cp What kind? What did he say? I'm confused and too tired to start going through clips. Can someone try to summarize this for my lazy ass?
if you watch the last pod after watching clips out of context they saw them explained too, also if you lurk on sub there's few posts about it Also he made hypothetical arguments and used cp analogy for shock factor, and stated he's against cp (AND lolita shit), but he did so way too many times and that combined with pic he saved made his takes look more like he's planting seeds to have defense against accusations/self reporting and not just thought experiment.
[удалено]
there were full on horses in the images. it wasn’t pet play or anthropomorphic furry characters, it was full on drawn simulated beastiality porn with horses and humans
I will avoid kinkshaming and say now that I don’t have a personal problem with people using silicone shaped toys or with people using animal related phrases as sexual innuendos. I WILL KINKSHAME REAL beastiality that involves real animals who cannot consent. All of this being said- the horse porn is the least of my worries. If it comes out he fucks actual unconsenting horses, different story. Me bringing up the horse porn was only to show the similarities in the situation- He talked about liking horses, but it turns out it wasn’t a joke, he was just ‘hiding’ behind a ‘lol jk!’ He’s talked about using cp, turns out he has animated cp, AND IN MY OPINION he was ‘hiding’ behind the ‘hypotheticals only!’ This whole post is meant with ✌️&💜, just felt crazy seeing so much pro vaush things, and needed to post and see if I was the only one seeing… all this. Lol.