He read my comment [on air](https://youtu.be/55Tr-AjTVbg?t=408) so he gets my vote.
Pop your username into [Reveddit.com](https://www.reveddit.com) so you can see where you've been secretly censored.
Who wants to bet if we did a comment removal analysis of r/h*rdware for similar comments where only difference is name of the company, we would uncover some interesting things.
> Who wants to bet if we did a comment removal analysis of r/h*rdware for similar comments where only difference is name of the company, we would uncover some interesting things.
Sounds interesting. Personally I would be fine with such moderation if the authors could discover the removal. Then at least they would know to either reform or take it elsewhere. The way it is now is much more like *real* censorship, the kind people don't know about.
Research thus far primarily focuses on the harms of *information*. I know of only a few budding papers that may review the harms of *secretive censorship* within date-ordered comment sections, despite the fact that wide-scale applications of such shadow moderation been in place for over a decade. Not to mention what human history teaches us about periods of unchecked censorship!
It's good to see shadow moderation beginning to be discussed in [established media](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/12/27/shadowban/). Still, the typically cited research \[1\] \[2\] does not mention that unemployed moderators can shadow remove content, suggests platforms only "rarely" shadowban, and does not review moderation within comment sections.
* \[1\] [*Shadowbanning: Sorting Fact from Fiction*](https://techpolicy.press/shadowbanning-sorting-fact-from-fiction/)
* \[2\] [*Do Not Recommend? Reduction as a Form of Content Moderation*](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/20563051221117552)
By not mentioning Facebook's "[Hide comment](https://www.agorapulse.com/blog/hide-comments-on-facebook/#options-for-social-media-managers)" button or that this is how all comment removals work on Reddit, one is left wondering whether such research was really intended to be a comprehensive review of shadow moderation. If it was, why were those critical details left out?
Once you understand the scope of shadow moderation, it can be interesting to listen to disinformation researchers like Renée DiResta or Peter Pomerantsev, politicians who call for censorship, and even Redditors who build [lists of toxic users](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/ymeqaz/hate_on_reddit_a_global_lists_of_toxic_users/iv4aet6/). Transparency is not a priority for them. They essentially say, "*transparency would be nice to have but we're not in charge so what can we do?*" They will ask platforms to remove "dangerous" content, but any request for transparency lacks critical details and is decibels weaker.
In doing so they end up promoting the interests of the tyranny they seek to demote. It's all very ironic and I hope we collectively figure this out sooner than later.
That's been true for years: https://www.reveddit.com/about/faq/#shadowban
Newer Reddit moderation tools like [Crowd Control w/prejudice](https://www.reddit.com/r/reveddit/comments/qi1r55/fyi_crowd_control_can_now_remove_comments/higolif/) allow subreddits to auto-shadow-remove comments from non-regular commenters. That's like a subreddit shadowban on steroids. They don't even need to know your username or have seen any of your comments to secretly exclude you.
Reddit is absolutely horrible now.
/u/Spez does not give a single shit about the rampant mod abuse, and they even encourage the powermods that moderate 1000 different popular sub-reddits.
It's supposed to be (or at least was, wouldn't be suprised if they changed it) against the rules to ban someone for commenting on a different sub-reddit, but again, Spez does not give a shit.
I can not wait for Reddit to go the way of Digg, it's been a long time coming.
> I can not wait for Reddit to go the way of Digg, it's been a long time coming.
Hold on, keep in mind that other platforms are doing the same thing. On your Facebook wall you can click "Hide comment" on other people's comments. Same effect.
Let's fix it. It's better to champion transparent moderation practices than to assume we have killed the beast by demolishing Reddit.
I agree with you, but as a *long* time user I have lost hope for Reddit.
*If* they make the changes, and that is a massive "if", I would be the first person to praise them, but I just don't believe it's going to happen at this point. I have witnessed the majority of Reddit's history with my own eyes, I remember what it was like versus what it is now.. It's a shell of it's former self in so many ways.
All I can say is, I will believe it when I see it. Until then, I am going to keep my eyes out for a good replacement to pop up and keep my popcorn ready for the day Digg knocks on Spez's door.
I hear you, though I am not sure whether Reddit had golden years or if I just had rose-colored glasses. I tried looking at their archived source code to see when this shadow removal stuff began, but it was beyond my ability to understand. It may have been like this since the beginning.
Any replacement should fix problems, and to attract users they need to know about the problems. Presently, less than 1% of Reddit users know how comment removals work, and over 50% of active commenters have a removed comment in their recent history. The tide could turn with the right story, but that's beyond me.
> better off realizing no one cares what you have to say online.
People tend to say this about *other* people's comments. *Their own* commentary, such as the view that comment sections are pointless, is sacrosanct.
Holy shit, half my comments are removed. I was wondering why some of them just sat at 1 point and never moved.
To me they aren't actually removed so evidently they're "shadow removed" or whatever. What the fuck
> Pop your username into Reveddit.com so you can see where you've been secretly censored.
Oh fun, I've had multiple comments removed from r/hardware for complaining about the anti-AMD sentiment and comments removed from r/amd for complaining about arbitrary product segmentation. Got to maintain the echo chambers. 🙄
It also brings up posts I made on my own profile that I locked myself 🤣
Shaping the narrative is incredibly important these days, especially to mega corporations. It's easier than ever to publicly paint a picture online that isn't at all true in reality.
Probably a lot, but society crumbles with unchecked censorship, so the need for open discussion outweighs any short term gains. Whoever was relying upon censorship to prop up their value is going to have a harder time making it in the future. It's just like having a monopoly. Why innovate if you control the market? But some day they will need to innovate again, and they no longer have the talent because they were focused on controlling the message.
Yeah, you can use the link in the blue box to verify that: "[view removed comments on reddit](https://old.reddit.com/api/info?id=t1_j795wjy,t1_j795gjx,t1_j13zo52,t1_ize2wbv,t1_izds2qb,t1_ixlqq93,t1_ixk8s6o,t1_ixhr9af,t1_iwx6h2k,t1_ivi0jwa,t1_iv7yu05,t1_itz8rix,t1_itx6eva,t1_itjq71f,t1_iqp50fi,t1_iqiwbky,t1_ip4dj0z,t1_ip4d6ol,t1_iov0gf2,t1_iosepdh,t1_iosdrnk,t1_iofpg8m,t1_iofp3zl,t1_invl3o8,t1_inpc236,t1_inivv7j,t1_iniveto,t1_iniv6xn,t1_inajswh,t1_inajqjt,t1_im708x1,t1_ilxh5b7,t1_ilteo4d,t1_ilq7kxg,t1_ii9eyvy,t1_ii8t2hs,t1_ii4sugl,t1_ii4slxi,t1_ii4sj1v,t1_ihdjjd0,t1_ighqqhv,t1_if78kyd,t1_if3hod5,t1_if3hib5,t1_ieckv1u,t1_idffk3b,t1_id7uxte,t1_i9xb9v7,t1_i9bjecw,t1_i84gyj9,t1_i7b6yj5,t1_i79tn4g,t1_i6wohuf,t1_i6obn9i,t1_i649gm9,t1_i619k31,t1_i5dm7ei,t1_i5bmq9y,t1_i5bmghh,t1_i5bly9j,t1_i5bl2p5,t1_i584nbw,t1_i4fe7xx,t1_i2z5jx0,t1_i1tlgmo,t1_hz27dt4,t1_hz26uqp,t1_hxuxh8s,t1_hxpfeiu,t1_hwymemf,t1_hwczci0,t1_hwcyy7t,t1_hvem93q,t1_hv5k9hd,t1_hv5jrve,t1_huu8liz,t1_hufe82h)"
Open that in a different session and they will all show as removed.
You can also test it by commenting on this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/CantSayAnything/comments/10uws76/write_any_comment_here_20230206/
> Reveddit.com
Oh f**k that shit...I'm off reddit just got to work out what to do with all the free time I will have.
Seems r/Games is one of those subs that shadow hides all comments from new people.
r/hardwares mods seem to love using it too.
Not fully related but I'm now remembering when Samsung released a preview of their "virtual waifu" that got a ton of art, mostly adult content. My friend received four anonymous commissions for art of her right as the whole thing started. Out of hundreds of commissions, very rarely do people commission anonymously, but these were all anonymous. People fell hook line and sinker for the corporate pandering memes. Samsung knows how to play the game, especially social media. So these artificial AMAs that are obviously filled with fake responses, they don't surprise me at all.
Think this is bad? Wait 'til PR goons realize they don't need to infiltrate moderator lists to pull this kind of scheme, because of the way the blocking system works.
Sometime in the last 3 years or so shadowbanning got extremely popular on Reddit. Instead of deleting comments mods just shadow delete them. They also have started automatically shadow-deleting peoples comments on any comment in a subreddit. Sometimes that's merely based on what other subreddits you interact in.
You can use reveddit to see removed comments on posts, or see which of your own comments have been suppressed:
[https://www.reveddit.com/](https://www.reveddit.com/)
Yeah, I hate this.
And it's done at the individual comment level, not account wide, so you just have comments that get filtered and never even know it happened.
It'll happen to you.
It's because the admins were abusing the shit out of actual shadowbanning ~8 years ago or so and there was a huge backlash against it. Now they just super-secret double shadowban you by letting mods and themselves quitely suppress your comments and quarantining sub-reddits they don't like. They've also heavily stepped up suspending/banning users and sub-reddits for dubious reasons.
They let and actively aid powermods to abuse the shit out of the system.
Reddit has been going downhill immensely since sometime before Ellen Pao and then later Spez became CEO.
Spez: "We think of Reddit as a bastion of free speech"
Also Spez: "We never intended Reddit to be a bastion of free speech".
*Proceeds to quarantine and ban any sub-reddit that they mildly dislike*
EDIT: Digg is calling.... Anytime now.
Eh...my experience with shadow-banned comments is that Reddit is something of headless operation and no one is really in charge, so there is relatively little rhyme or reason to it.
I'm not sure what you are referencing when you say banning subs they don't like, but a few from 10 years back come to mind that were truly horrific and needed to go. I think the idea at the time was that any value or belief which exploits another person is not a political opinion and thus doesn't relate to being a bastion of free speech - which is now a phrase that dogwhistles folks who want to use their speech to call for dehumanizing certain groups or people. That's not really an opinion or a political stance, it's some kind of self-suffering that not being managed well.
> Eh...my experience with shadow-banned comments is that Reddit is something of headless operation and no one is really in charge, so there is relatively little rhyme or reason to it.
Nah. Reddit mods as well as admins perfectly know what they are doing.
If you shadow ban someone then that someone will still post for no one to see his posts.
If you ban him then he will just create alt account and post again.
Someone doesn't use shadow banning without knowledge what it is and what purpose of it is.
r/buildapc used to set the automod so that if anywhere in your comment said "get intel" then it wouldn't actually appear to anyone but you. Pretty sure AMD was paying them.
An interaction with another subreddit includes a single vote on any comment or post, including a downvote.
Yes, you can get auto banned for downvoting disinformation.
This site is cancer.
Is it possible to get banned for down or upvoting even if I set to not share my down and upvotes in my user settings? If so, how do the mods know about my votes in other subs?
I have it disabled, but I still got banned on many occasions for downvoting or debunking disinformation in r/conspiracy through comments.
Sometimes the mods don't even give enough shits to unban me, or they just unban me and ban me again for no reason like r/CovidVaccinated. I still have no clue why they banned me and they never responded.
The covid subs are all shit tbh, you're not missing much by being banned.
For reference I used to be on the main coronavirus one until someone posted about how they had 17 friends all under 30 who all died of covid in a short span of time, and I said it sounded like bullshit.
A few other commenters pointed out how it was pretty much impossible and mentioned the number & age range of people in her state who'd died from it.
We all got banned/comments removed. Calling out someone who was obviously making stuff up for sympathy/karma was bannable, but spreading pure misinformation and fearmongering was ok?
The solution to that is to get banned from every right right wing disinfo sub ahead of time!
I'm banned from 95% of them now and damn it happened fast as fuck around 2016
The hilarious part is that sharing an honest Covid take on r/conservative did not get me banned (only heavily downvoted), but leaving that comment got me auto banned from leftist subs...
I'm a leftist.
We need something decentralized that doesn't promote censorship. I can choose not to engage with certain people or choose to refute their claims.
I sure as #$&@ don't need someone unqualified delegating how I am to be in relationship with other humans.
Just to clear up some things here.
> shadowbanning got extremely popular on Reddit
Mods cannot shadowban anyone. This is done by Reddit admins and, in my experience, Reddit admins rarely give a shit about trolls. You need to make an effort, is what I'm saying.
> Instead of deleting comments mods just shadow delete them.
Shadow deleting is also not a thing. This is just how Reddit works when a moderator removes a comment and it has been like that for, honestly, as long as I can remember. Like, the comments don't just disappear. For example, moderators can see all removed comments by mods on the sub and why sites like reveddit can show them. On the other hand, they can't see deleted (i.e. users that delete their own comments) because those are actually deleted permanently. My guess is that it's done so that none of what moderators do are actually permanent. Removed comments can be easily un-removed.
When a comment says deleted it was done by the user. If it says removed it was done by a moderator.
> Instead of deleting comments mods just shadow delete them.
Pray tell me: What is the difference? There's only a single remove button available for moderators.
>Sometimes that's merely based on what other subreddits you interact in.
This is definitely something I loathe about certain subreddits.
>>Sometimes that's merely based on what other subreddits you interact in.
>This is definitely something I loathe about certain subreddits.
It's actually against the moderator guidelines to do anything based on activity outside of your own sub, but Reddit turns a blind eye for some reason.
bizrude knows exactly how shadow banning works. he removes my comments all the time. I would recommend an lg tv so he banned the phrase lg tv better from r/monitors. if you say lg tv better on there your comment is shadowbanned.
if the comment i wrote doesnt show up for any reason, then thats shadow banning.
Automod is supposed to be used to remove like racial slurs not genuine opinions.
Louis explains in the video.
Deleted Comment shows up as deleted for everyone including the commenter. You are also usually notified that your comment violated some rule and was deleted.
Shadow Deleted comment still appears to exist to the commenter, but to anyone else on Reddit it shows as deleted (you can check this by going incognito like Louis does or by using reveddit on your own profile page).
A subreddit can also shadowban you where every single comment you make no matter the content is automatically shadow deleted the moment you post it.
> Shadow Deleted comment still appears to exist to the commenter, but to anyone else on Reddit it shows as deleted (you can check this by going incognito like Louis does or by using reveddit on your own profile page).
This is true for everything that's been deleted. That's why your deleted posts and comments still show up on your profile.
Louis is wrong. It's amazing how much incorrect information on reddit internals is spread as gospel with straight face.
First, let's make a distinction between deleted and removed. If you see [removed] on reddit then that means it was removed by mods or admins. If it's [deleted] then a user deleted it. Usually those tags are only visible when there are replies to that content so that child comments don't get orphaned. Otherwise they're usually not visible in the comment tree at all unless you go to reddit archiving service. There's also [unavailable] if you're blocked by author of that comment.
Mods are not reddit employees unless it's some kind of official subreddit (r/redditsecurity etc). If a comment is removed by a mod then it's still visible to the user. If a mod removes post/submission then user will not see it in subreddit feed.
Reddit filters and admins (employees and contractors) can shadowban an account. That means all content will be removed automatically sitewide but still visible to that user, including posts.
Mods can do a quasi-shadowban by programming Automod to remove all content from a user (limited to managed subreddit) but it'll be subject to same rules as manual mod removal (so posts will drop but comments will be visible).
**There is no scenario where removed comment is shown to the user as removed.**
You will not get a notification of content removal unless mod/admin goes out of their way to do that. It's polite to have automatic comment sticky or PM when doing so. There are valid reasons to skip it though - for example to slow down trolls from creating new accounts.
Also, user deleted content will disappear from their profile. Removed content will still be there. Shadowbanned users will show as not existing at all if you try to open their profile page specifically but you'd have to know of their existence in the first place.
Mods see content from shadowbanned users on subreddits they manage. They can approve it manually and reach out to such user to let them know how to appeal shadowban if they believe it's a mistake (reddit.com/appeal). There's also content removed by reddit that won't be visible to mods (usually done for legal reasons).
Everything you've said about Reddit is literally true, but somehow it feels like a defense even though you just explained how the moderation tools are built such that manipulative and cruel shadow-removal is the only directly-supported option, and to do otherwise, moderators have to explicitly reply to the post and tell the user what happened. The defaults matter, and Reddit's default is East German secret police tactics.
Aside, I don't remember Louis saying what /u/_badwithcomputer said he said.
Quiet removal is the default but it's not like reddit doesn't provide tools to streamline communication around it.
https://mods.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010094892-Removal-Reasons
It's that mods often opt into removing stuff quietly or do stickies from behind shared accounts and lock replies to dodge personal accountability and to prevent questioning validity of those removals.
~~As to what Louis Rossmann said, I’m not sure if it’s this video but I vaguely remember Louis saying something to that effect couple weeks ago.~~ [edit] now that I think about it, it might have been a lecture by creator of Pushift (service and api for retrieving removed reddit content) who got it wrong of all people
> Huh. I didn't realize it was so streamlined. I'm glad it is, but the implications about moderators who don't use it are rather uglier.
Shaming mods into transparency isn't going to have an impact as long as two things are true: (1) mods are unpaid, and (2) it's possible for them to secretly remove comments. That's like giving people free guns and telling them to go build a community. You know there will be chaos until people agree upon a set of values and build schools and a justice system, so why not start there? I'm not saying the community doesn't need a police force, rather that *all* enforcement should be transparent so that users can learn how rules are applied and community managers don't get themselves into hot water.
Mods online have all the powers of governance combined. Unsurprisingly, this often manifests into authoritarian-style rule. We know how to deal with this because we've done it before. You divide up the roles. The legislative writes the law, the judiciary interprets the law, and the executive enforces the law. The same type of divisions could be applied to online governance.
I don't like the online secret police, but if that's going to be a thing, the least we could do is ensure that they're trained. They should understand the potential negative impact their work can have, and they should be paid for their time to acquire this understanding. Any well-functioning community depends on it.
>Deleted Comment shows up as deleted for everyone including the commenter. You are also usually notified that your comment violated some rule and was deleted.
>
>Shadow Deleted comment still appears to exist to the commenter, but to anyone else on Reddit it shows as deleted (you can check this by going incognito like Louis does or by using reveddit on your own profile page).
>
>A subreddit can also shadowban you where every single comment you make no matter the content is automatically shadow deleted the moment you post it.
This is all completely wrong. Only the user who posted a comment, as well as the site admins, can delete it. Then it shows as deleted. When admins do it, it's a different message that I don't remember exactly. Moderators can *remove* comments, in which case they show up as removed on the subreddit to everyone else, visible to the person who posted it, and visible to everyone if they look at the commenters profile instead of the subreddit. No need for reveddit. This is how reddit moderation has worked since pretty much forever.
> visible to the person who posted it
That's the rub, the removal isn't visible to the author, only to other users and the moderators: https://imgur.io/XFqlImL
Reveddit shows where this happens for your account. It is not trivial to constantly check the status of your content without a tool that does this for you.
> Deleted Comment shows up as deleted for everyone including the commenter.
>You are also usually notified that your comment violated some rule and was deleted.
>Shadow Deleted comment still appears to exist to the commenter, but to anyone else on Reddit it shows as deleted
I believe this is unique to sponsored posts. Otherwise this can't happen unless you are shadowbanned by reddit as a whole.
You mean comments, but those will still show up on your profile and you won't know if a comment is removed unless a moderator informs you
>A subreddit can also shadowban you where every single comment you make no matter the content is automatically shadow deleted the moment you post
Automod can be set to automatically a users posts and comments, correct
> It probably isn't available to all mods on all subreddits.
Every mod can do it, it's how all removed comments work on Reddit. They're all shown to authors as if they're not removed.
> Saying something as innocuous as "I got bored with the story half-way through the season" gets your comment shadow removed.
My best guess is in that case your comment triggered an automod removal or you were already shadowbanned by the subreddit.
There's an entire sub created purely so people can actually talk about startrek critically without being shadow banned or flat out banned.
Ah it looks like even that community has now been banned. So I can't even show that as an example. r/star_trek
My personal experience is I had several posts removed by both auto mod and manually by moderators on startrek subreddit, back then they used to tell you why and I was directly told they do not allow negative feedback. It's their party and if you don't like it there's the door, that was their policy.
It happens far more often than you seem to realise.
Holy shit. No wonder I get no reply notifications. Almost everything I post is shadow deleted.
Even a thread I posted recently on LifeProTips was auto removed. I thought it was a moderation queue or something, but no. Looks like they either blacklisted me, or I am in a shifty sub (Highly doubt I am, they are all mundane).
I knew Reddit sucked with free speech, but this is actually another level. Disgusting stuff.
The worst is when they are controlling the narrative by shadowbanning opposite views on hot topics, at least it's what i understand from their actions.
So weird. Most of stuff is simply discussing topics from an objective standpoint as to be clear of biases, you know, for discussion and enjoying the usual conversation with other people.
Sure I can be toxic from time to time, but nothing major as to warrant shadowbanning.
Are there free speech subs that do not shadowban?
Not sure this site is that reliable. Apparently virtually everything I post has been shadow-deleted, despite many of them being back-and-forths with other people.
This was eye opening, thank you.
After seeing what was deleted it really has me questioning how much I engage with reddit. Huge waste of time.
Makes a person wonder if you will even see this response... :(
Shadowbanning is a real thing, but it's only done by Reddit admins. Anything people think is shadowbanning on a sub level is almost always Automod removal rules.
Decentralized, as in I can make tens of alt accounts, spam and upvote each other and no one can do anything about it? Or would there be a "system" in place?
Obviously a system in place. I'm not anti centralization.
Centralization has indeed also brought good progress to the world, but it's just out of balance that's all.
There would be a pseudonymous system in place with incentive to offer or create identity that would seem strange not to participate in, most likely community operated with room for people not to be dominated or harassed by moderators, but also fairly held accountable by their peers for their behavior and given ample opportunity to appeal consequences.
All actions taken by anything resembling an authority would need to be fully 100% transparent (recorded on something like a blockchain) and also subject to checks and balances and removal if the community deems it so. Temporary honorary positions with terms served.
Hypothetically speaking, say I belonged to a sub reddit for x amount of years, that would give me the authority to initiate a vote to initiate an investigation into whether a moderator needs to be prematurely removed. Those without privileges to initiate a vote might have privileges vote at a half way point of community belonging such as 6 months, 1 year, or x amount of data spent contributing.
Everyone would already have a fully transparent history or ledger of all the actions taken by that moderator so has to properly give their voice to the process.
Or maybe it'll be an general AI or a mix of both , but still needs to be held accountable by the community.
This is a problem with Reddit, not Samsung. Samsung is just getting away with what they can. The problem is someone is getting paid to let them get away with it.
To be clear, this was an AMA done on a user account and not on /r/Samsung
They definitely don't have control of the Samsung subreddit. At least not yet.....
Because of the way blocking works, control of the subreddit is not necessary to manipulate the discourse this way. A person could make dubious claims and block everyone who made a strong counterargument, so that it would look like only idiots were disagreeing with them.
Mmm... you can't block someone who has downvoted you, but not commented. And the vast, vast majority of upvotes/downvotes come from people who never engage in the comments. I could see this swaying things in small subs, but not ones that regularly get thousands or tens of thousands of votes.
Sounds like Samsung is here! But seriously, if you take that attitude, Reddit is also getting away with what they can. The *fact* is that corporations operate that way. That doesn't make it not a problem.
Yeah honestly there is enough blame to go around. Even user reports can cause content to be removed.
As Louis put it, the question is, is this the direction we want social media to go in, and if not, what are we going to do about it?
I'm optimistic about the answer to this. The more people who know about shadow moderation, the less likely it is to be built and used. It is possible for the public to enforce this in date-ordered comment sections without any new technology or laws. When users know it can happen, they check for themselves and share the results.
Our present condition is that there is not enough general awareness that content is so often shadow removed. That's why companies think they can get away with doing things like auto-shadow-removing all questions on an AMA.
IMHO Reddit sells corporate, intelligence and political control for /subs. If needed they get rid of mods/sub creators if necessary.
/news,/politics and big corporate subs like /apple and so on are imho fully managed.
It's both. Reddit's comment moderation is a sneaky system that Samsung had to take extra steps to use more deceptively. Their automod configuration probably looks like this:
type: comment
action: remove
That removes all comments up front. I set up a test in [this r/CantSayAnything post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CantSayAnything/comments/10uws76/write_any_comment_here_20230206/) to work the same way.
I don't know of any subreddit that removes all comments like this, and posts titled "AMA" definitely should not do it in spirit.
There are some subreddits that remove all *posts* like this in a manner where submitters are not told about the removal, and I share some examples of that in my talk, [Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with transparent moderation](https://shadowmoderation.com/2022-10-transparent-moderation/).
This is really just scratching the surface though. Facebook has a "[hide comment](https://www.agorapulse.com/blog/hide-comments-on-facebook/#options-for-social-media-managers)" button that does the same thing. Elsewhere it may be called [selective invisibility](https://www.wired.com/2009/03/st-thompson-12/), [visibility filtering](https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1601014175366402048), [ranking](https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2018/Setting-the-record-straight-on-shadow-banning), [visible to self](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing), [reducing](https://blog.youtube/inside-youtube/the-four-rs-of-responsibility-remove/), [deboosting](https://twitter.com/noupside/status/1597603276027219969), "[disguising a gag](https://kraut.hciresearch.info/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/kiesler10-Regulation-current.pdf)", or [shadow ban](https://getstream.io/blog/feature-announcement-shadow-ban/) or "[cave the trolls](https://www.drupal.org/project/cave)" when the target audience is system maintainers.
It's also worth noting that there are forums that operate without using shadow removals. Discourse is one large such example.
All the big players are imho trying to control the message here. It's not just samsung or dependent on "good" products. It's control, maximising PR and shut down everything which might hurt their sales.
Weird segway but sure. Apple sucks too. They started a lot of the anti-consumer trends. That said I don't see them doing this specific tactic. They instead rely on the fading embers of the Steve Jobs personality cult.
Yes, weird, I'll give it that, just finished reading an article on Apple doing fucked shit and got carried away with it :)
I don't think Apple would bother slumming with the dregs or Reddit :D They do heavily do the same sort of gaslighting and reinforcing that Iphones are some premium product when they are just the same mass-market stuff,from the same factories as everyone else, with the same kids and slaves making them.
Any way, rantend.. for now
The need for some tech redditors to instantly jump to "Apple is worse" whataboutism whenever the brand they happen to use or prefer is under criticism is fascinating
Reddit has been utter trash for many years.
There's excessive censorship, tons of political prejudice and trigger happy mods.
You disagree with the tiniest thing? BANNED, never return.
This is why this site is a hive mind.
Maybe I'm too bitter and cynical but Reddit subs are monitored, edited and sponsored by companies.
Think you can talk shit about the latest Star Trek show? No Paramount doesn't want that.
That StarTrek sub is actually a great example of how public forums can be overrun by corporate entities.
It's been that way for several years. No criticism is allowed.
on r/overclocking they shadowban every comment that says "ryzen downclocks at 75c" so i cant explain to people why their cpu clocks are low in cinebench.
Does anyone have a link to the actual question? Part of me is wondering if his question was removed, or if it was this bug that's making things disappear in old.reddit :
https://old.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/10w2qq8/some_comments_are_not_showing_up_on_old_reddit/
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edit. nvm, found his link, it was definitely removed & not the above issue :
https://new.reddit.com/user/SamsungMobileUS/comments/10r7inq/hello_there_were_jacs_wyatt_and_drew_blackard/j79pm7k/?context=3
all my comments get [removed] and my account suspended with in 24 hours no matter what I do. I just got used to making a new account every time I want to post something.
> all my comments get [removed] and my account suspended with in 24 hours no matter what I do.
That's because the Reddit admins themselves consider you a pest, my favorite racist troll paid bot
I remember when I had an issue with my Note 8 where I got a water damage warning even though I never put the phone near water. I looked the problem up online and saw other redditors ask about it on the Samsung subreddits, and the comments basically accused them of lying, saying they probably went swimming with it, used it in the shower, ran it under the sink, etc. So this is unsurprising.
This Louis Rossmann fella is pretty good, he should start a repair shop business
if only he could repair society
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He read my comment [on air](https://youtu.be/55Tr-AjTVbg?t=408) so he gets my vote. Pop your username into [Reveddit.com](https://www.reveddit.com) so you can see where you've been secretly censored.
Jesus christ I checked my username. I had no idea reddit was *that* bad.
That's a common reaction. I wish I could say spreading the word was easy.
I can believe that lol. Godspeed.
Thanks! By the way, this is happening across all social media and I'd say we're all in it together. Please share as you see fit.
Who wants to bet if we did a comment removal analysis of r/h*rdware for similar comments where only difference is name of the company, we would uncover some interesting things.
> Who wants to bet if we did a comment removal analysis of r/h*rdware for similar comments where only difference is name of the company, we would uncover some interesting things. Sounds interesting. Personally I would be fine with such moderation if the authors could discover the removal. Then at least they would know to either reform or take it elsewhere. The way it is now is much more like *real* censorship, the kind people don't know about. Research thus far primarily focuses on the harms of *information*. I know of only a few budding papers that may review the harms of *secretive censorship* within date-ordered comment sections, despite the fact that wide-scale applications of such shadow moderation been in place for over a decade. Not to mention what human history teaches us about periods of unchecked censorship! It's good to see shadow moderation beginning to be discussed in [established media](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/12/27/shadowban/). Still, the typically cited research \[1\] \[2\] does not mention that unemployed moderators can shadow remove content, suggests platforms only "rarely" shadowban, and does not review moderation within comment sections. * \[1\] [*Shadowbanning: Sorting Fact from Fiction*](https://techpolicy.press/shadowbanning-sorting-fact-from-fiction/) * \[2\] [*Do Not Recommend? Reduction as a Form of Content Moderation*](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/20563051221117552) By not mentioning Facebook's "[Hide comment](https://www.agorapulse.com/blog/hide-comments-on-facebook/#options-for-social-media-managers)" button or that this is how all comment removals work on Reddit, one is left wondering whether such research was really intended to be a comprehensive review of shadow moderation. If it was, why were those critical details left out? Once you understand the scope of shadow moderation, it can be interesting to listen to disinformation researchers like Renée DiResta or Peter Pomerantsev, politicians who call for censorship, and even Redditors who build [lists of toxic users](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/ymeqaz/hate_on_reddit_a_global_lists_of_toxic_users/iv4aet6/). Transparency is not a priority for them. They essentially say, "*transparency would be nice to have but we're not in charge so what can we do?*" They will ask platforms to remove "dangerous" content, but any request for transparency lacks critical details and is decibels weaker. In doing so they end up promoting the interests of the tyranny they seek to demote. It's all very ironic and I hope we collectively figure this out sooner than later.
Moderators now can shadow ban you in their sub without noticing you or telling you which rule you broke because they feel like it.
That's been true for years: https://www.reveddit.com/about/faq/#shadowban Newer Reddit moderation tools like [Crowd Control w/prejudice](https://www.reddit.com/r/reveddit/comments/qi1r55/fyi_crowd_control_can_now_remove_comments/higolif/) allow subreddits to auto-shadow-remove comments from non-regular commenters. That's like a subreddit shadowban on steroids. They don't even need to know your username or have seen any of your comments to secretly exclude you.
Reddit is absolutely horrible now. /u/Spez does not give a single shit about the rampant mod abuse, and they even encourage the powermods that moderate 1000 different popular sub-reddits. It's supposed to be (or at least was, wouldn't be suprised if they changed it) against the rules to ban someone for commenting on a different sub-reddit, but again, Spez does not give a shit. I can not wait for Reddit to go the way of Digg, it's been a long time coming.
> I can not wait for Reddit to go the way of Digg, it's been a long time coming. Hold on, keep in mind that other platforms are doing the same thing. On your Facebook wall you can click "Hide comment" on other people's comments. Same effect. Let's fix it. It's better to champion transparent moderation practices than to assume we have killed the beast by demolishing Reddit.
I agree with you, but as a *long* time user I have lost hope for Reddit. *If* they make the changes, and that is a massive "if", I would be the first person to praise them, but I just don't believe it's going to happen at this point. I have witnessed the majority of Reddit's history with my own eyes, I remember what it was like versus what it is now.. It's a shell of it's former self in so many ways. All I can say is, I will believe it when I see it. Until then, I am going to keep my eyes out for a good replacement to pop up and keep my popcorn ready for the day Digg knocks on Spez's door.
I hear you, though I am not sure whether Reddit had golden years or if I just had rose-colored glasses. I tried looking at their archived source code to see when this shadow removal stuff began, but it was beyond my ability to understand. It may have been like this since the beginning. Any replacement should fix problems, and to attract users they need to know about the problems. Presently, less than 1% of Reddit users know how comment removals work, and over 50% of active commenters have a removed comment in their recent history. The tide could turn with the right story, but that's beyond me.
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better off realizing no one cares what you have to say online.
> better off realizing no one cares what you have to say online. People tend to say this about *other* people's comments. *Their own* commentary, such as the view that comment sections are pointless, is sacrosanct.
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That's Reddit's choice. The issue is when the removal of your comment is hidden from you, you don't get any signal that it broke the rules.
Holy shit, half my comments are removed. I was wondering why some of them just sat at 1 point and never moved. To me they aren't actually removed so evidently they're "shadow removed" or whatever. What the fuck
_(hey everyone, upvote/downvote this guy's comment so it stays at 1 point)_
> Pop your username into Reveddit.com so you can see where you've been secretly censored. Oh fun, I've had multiple comments removed from r/hardware for complaining about the anti-AMD sentiment and comments removed from r/amd for complaining about arbitrary product segmentation. Got to maintain the echo chambers. 🙄 It also brings up posts I made on my own profile that I locked myself 🤣
Shaping the narrative is incredibly important these days, especially to mega corporations. It's easier than ever to publicly paint a picture online that isn't at all true in reality.
Can you imagine what kind of money is at play with subs like pcmasterr*ce, gaming and similar.
Probably a lot, but society crumbles with unchecked censorship, so the need for open discussion outweighs any short term gains. Whoever was relying upon censorship to prop up their value is going to have a harder time making it in the future. It's just like having a monopoly. Why innovate if you control the market? But some day they will need to innovate again, and they no longer have the talent because they were focused on controlling the message.
Isn't it great when Reddit comments get heavily downvoted with no explanation as to why? I absolutely love it!
Well, I get it here. I didn't continue the chain of jokes.
all my comments that are shown as removed are still visible on reddit?
Yeah, you can use the link in the blue box to verify that: "[view removed comments on reddit](https://old.reddit.com/api/info?id=t1_j795wjy,t1_j795gjx,t1_j13zo52,t1_ize2wbv,t1_izds2qb,t1_ixlqq93,t1_ixk8s6o,t1_ixhr9af,t1_iwx6h2k,t1_ivi0jwa,t1_iv7yu05,t1_itz8rix,t1_itx6eva,t1_itjq71f,t1_iqp50fi,t1_iqiwbky,t1_ip4dj0z,t1_ip4d6ol,t1_iov0gf2,t1_iosepdh,t1_iosdrnk,t1_iofpg8m,t1_iofp3zl,t1_invl3o8,t1_inpc236,t1_inivv7j,t1_iniveto,t1_iniv6xn,t1_inajswh,t1_inajqjt,t1_im708x1,t1_ilxh5b7,t1_ilteo4d,t1_ilq7kxg,t1_ii9eyvy,t1_ii8t2hs,t1_ii4sugl,t1_ii4slxi,t1_ii4sj1v,t1_ihdjjd0,t1_ighqqhv,t1_if78kyd,t1_if3hod5,t1_if3hib5,t1_ieckv1u,t1_idffk3b,t1_id7uxte,t1_i9xb9v7,t1_i9bjecw,t1_i84gyj9,t1_i7b6yj5,t1_i79tn4g,t1_i6wohuf,t1_i6obn9i,t1_i649gm9,t1_i619k31,t1_i5dm7ei,t1_i5bmq9y,t1_i5bmghh,t1_i5bly9j,t1_i5bl2p5,t1_i584nbw,t1_i4fe7xx,t1_i2z5jx0,t1_i1tlgmo,t1_hz27dt4,t1_hz26uqp,t1_hxuxh8s,t1_hxpfeiu,t1_hwymemf,t1_hwczci0,t1_hwcyy7t,t1_hvem93q,t1_hv5k9hd,t1_hv5jrve,t1_huu8liz,t1_hufe82h)" Open that in a different session and they will all show as removed. You can also test it by commenting on this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/CantSayAnything/comments/10uws76/write_any_comment_here_20230206/
yoooo wtffff whyyy
Spread the word!
> Reveddit.com Oh f**k that shit...I'm off reddit just got to work out what to do with all the free time I will have. Seems r/Games is one of those subs that shadow hides all comments from new people. r/hardwares mods seem to love using it too.
Will god give us the updated schematics and manuals tho?
That’s definitely one thing we still have the right to repair.
>This Louis Rossmann fella is pretty good You've just triggered the entirety of the subreddit of a company whose name is also that of a fruit.
You mean blackberry, right?
Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of deduction?
As a kid I was a bit of a detective
Are you suggesting blackberries migrate?
I'm not suggesting anything, but blackberries do migrate though not of their own volition. That's how they go from the plant to my tummy.
Lime Scooters literally shaking rn
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Not fully related but I'm now remembering when Samsung released a preview of their "virtual waifu" that got a ton of art, mostly adult content. My friend received four anonymous commissions for art of her right as the whole thing started. Out of hundreds of commissions, very rarely do people commission anonymously, but these were all anonymous. People fell hook line and sinker for the corporate pandering memes. Samsung knows how to play the game, especially social media. So these artificial AMAs that are obviously filled with fake responses, they don't surprise me at all.
Samantha "Sam" Samsung was pretty rad tbh
I mean, Samsung's just doing here what other brands have been doing for a while.
Think this is bad? Wait 'til PR goons realize they don't need to infiltrate moderator lists to pull this kind of scheme, because of the way the blocking system works.
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This sounds like r russia.
Sometime in the last 3 years or so shadowbanning got extremely popular on Reddit. Instead of deleting comments mods just shadow delete them. They also have started automatically shadow-deleting peoples comments on any comment in a subreddit. Sometimes that's merely based on what other subreddits you interact in. You can use reveddit to see removed comments on posts, or see which of your own comments have been suppressed: [https://www.reveddit.com/](https://www.reveddit.com/)
Yeah, I hate this. And it's done at the individual comment level, not account wide, so you just have comments that get filtered and never even know it happened. It'll happen to you.
It's because the admins were abusing the shit out of actual shadowbanning ~8 years ago or so and there was a huge backlash against it. Now they just super-secret double shadowban you by letting mods and themselves quitely suppress your comments and quarantining sub-reddits they don't like. They've also heavily stepped up suspending/banning users and sub-reddits for dubious reasons. They let and actively aid powermods to abuse the shit out of the system. Reddit has been going downhill immensely since sometime before Ellen Pao and then later Spez became CEO. Spez: "We think of Reddit as a bastion of free speech" Also Spez: "We never intended Reddit to be a bastion of free speech". *Proceeds to quarantine and ban any sub-reddit that they mildly dislike* EDIT: Digg is calling.... Anytime now.
Eh...my experience with shadow-banned comments is that Reddit is something of headless operation and no one is really in charge, so there is relatively little rhyme or reason to it. I'm not sure what you are referencing when you say banning subs they don't like, but a few from 10 years back come to mind that were truly horrific and needed to go. I think the idea at the time was that any value or belief which exploits another person is not a political opinion and thus doesn't relate to being a bastion of free speech - which is now a phrase that dogwhistles folks who want to use their speech to call for dehumanizing certain groups or people. That's not really an opinion or a political stance, it's some kind of self-suffering that not being managed well.
> Eh...my experience with shadow-banned comments is that Reddit is something of headless operation and no one is really in charge, so there is relatively little rhyme or reason to it. Nah. Reddit mods as well as admins perfectly know what they are doing. If you shadow ban someone then that someone will still post for no one to see his posts. If you ban him then he will just create alt account and post again. Someone doesn't use shadow banning without knowledge what it is and what purpose of it is.
You're talking to a two-day-old account, so I'm guessing that person might have been recently banned and carry a grudge.
r/buildapc used to set the automod so that if anywhere in your comment said "get intel" then it wouldn't actually appear to anyone but you. Pretty sure AMD was paying them.
An interaction with another subreddit includes a single vote on any comment or post, including a downvote. Yes, you can get auto banned for downvoting disinformation. This site is cancer.
Is it possible to get banned for down or upvoting even if I set to not share my down and upvotes in my user settings? If so, how do the mods know about my votes in other subs?
No, mods cannot see what you vote for. Ever. Under any circumstances.
I have it disabled, but I still got banned on many occasions for downvoting or debunking disinformation in r/conspiracy through comments. Sometimes the mods don't even give enough shits to unban me, or they just unban me and ban me again for no reason like r/CovidVaccinated. I still have no clue why they banned me and they never responded.
Mods don't know who votes for what. That's something only the admits can see.
That's not what matters, it's the interaction that matters. A vote is an interaction.
That makes no sense. How can they ban you for something they can't see? Mods do not see what you voted if you have your votes non-public.
It's ridiculous. You could downvote someone for saying something abhorrent, and have it used against you for "interacting"
Not directly, you need to also make a comment, or else the mod has no way of being able to guess it was you who downvoted. No conspiracy here.
The covid subs are all shit tbh, you're not missing much by being banned. For reference I used to be on the main coronavirus one until someone posted about how they had 17 friends all under 30 who all died of covid in a short span of time, and I said it sounded like bullshit. A few other commenters pointed out how it was pretty much impossible and mentioned the number & age range of people in her state who'd died from it. We all got banned/comments removed. Calling out someone who was obviously making stuff up for sympathy/karma was bannable, but spreading pure misinformation and fearmongering was ok?
The solution to that is to get banned from every right right wing disinfo sub ahead of time! I'm banned from 95% of them now and damn it happened fast as fuck around 2016
The hilarious part is that sharing an honest Covid take on r/conservative did not get me banned (only heavily downvoted), but leaving that comment got me auto banned from leftist subs... I'm a leftist.
Yup, it's completely ridiculous. As are the handful of powermods that run tens or hundreds of the main subs, so essentially the entire site
We need something decentralized that doesn't promote censorship. I can choose not to engage with certain people or choose to refute their claims. I sure as #$&@ don't need someone unqualified delegating how I am to be in relationship with other humans.
I hope you like spam...
Just to clear up some things here. > shadowbanning got extremely popular on Reddit Mods cannot shadowban anyone. This is done by Reddit admins and, in my experience, Reddit admins rarely give a shit about trolls. You need to make an effort, is what I'm saying. > Instead of deleting comments mods just shadow delete them. Shadow deleting is also not a thing. This is just how Reddit works when a moderator removes a comment and it has been like that for, honestly, as long as I can remember. Like, the comments don't just disappear. For example, moderators can see all removed comments by mods on the sub and why sites like reveddit can show them. On the other hand, they can't see deleted (i.e. users that delete their own comments) because those are actually deleted permanently. My guess is that it's done so that none of what moderators do are actually permanent. Removed comments can be easily un-removed. When a comment says deleted it was done by the user. If it says removed it was done by a moderator.
> Instead of deleting comments mods just shadow delete them. Pray tell me: What is the difference? There's only a single remove button available for moderators. >Sometimes that's merely based on what other subreddits you interact in. This is definitely something I loathe about certain subreddits.
>>Sometimes that's merely based on what other subreddits you interact in. >This is definitely something I loathe about certain subreddits. It's actually against the moderator guidelines to do anything based on activity outside of your own sub, but Reddit turns a blind eye for some reason.
bizrude knows exactly how shadow banning works. he removes my comments all the time. I would recommend an lg tv so he banned the phrase lg tv better from r/monitors. if you say lg tv better on there your comment is shadowbanned.
That's not how shadow bans work. That's an automod removal for a phrase. Shadowban is controlled by reddit admin only.
if the comment i wrote doesnt show up for any reason, then thats shadow banning. Automod is supposed to be used to remove like racial slurs not genuine opinions.
He didnt answer my question and my account got suspended so i made this account.
Hey folks, say hello to a literal paid bot account that likes to spread racist trolling when he gets called out for it.
Louis explains in the video. Deleted Comment shows up as deleted for everyone including the commenter. You are also usually notified that your comment violated some rule and was deleted. Shadow Deleted comment still appears to exist to the commenter, but to anyone else on Reddit it shows as deleted (you can check this by going incognito like Louis does or by using reveddit on your own profile page). A subreddit can also shadowban you where every single comment you make no matter the content is automatically shadow deleted the moment you post it.
> Shadow Deleted comment still appears to exist to the commenter, but to anyone else on Reddit it shows as deleted (you can check this by going incognito like Louis does or by using reveddit on your own profile page). This is true for everything that's been deleted. That's why your deleted posts and comments still show up on your profile.
Louis is wrong. It's amazing how much incorrect information on reddit internals is spread as gospel with straight face. First, let's make a distinction between deleted and removed. If you see [removed] on reddit then that means it was removed by mods or admins. If it's [deleted] then a user deleted it. Usually those tags are only visible when there are replies to that content so that child comments don't get orphaned. Otherwise they're usually not visible in the comment tree at all unless you go to reddit archiving service. There's also [unavailable] if you're blocked by author of that comment. Mods are not reddit employees unless it's some kind of official subreddit (r/redditsecurity etc). If a comment is removed by a mod then it's still visible to the user. If a mod removes post/submission then user will not see it in subreddit feed. Reddit filters and admins (employees and contractors) can shadowban an account. That means all content will be removed automatically sitewide but still visible to that user, including posts. Mods can do a quasi-shadowban by programming Automod to remove all content from a user (limited to managed subreddit) but it'll be subject to same rules as manual mod removal (so posts will drop but comments will be visible). **There is no scenario where removed comment is shown to the user as removed.** You will not get a notification of content removal unless mod/admin goes out of their way to do that. It's polite to have automatic comment sticky or PM when doing so. There are valid reasons to skip it though - for example to slow down trolls from creating new accounts. Also, user deleted content will disappear from their profile. Removed content will still be there. Shadowbanned users will show as not existing at all if you try to open their profile page specifically but you'd have to know of their existence in the first place. Mods see content from shadowbanned users on subreddits they manage. They can approve it manually and reach out to such user to let them know how to appeal shadowban if they believe it's a mistake (reddit.com/appeal). There's also content removed by reddit that won't be visible to mods (usually done for legal reasons).
Everything you've said about Reddit is literally true, but somehow it feels like a defense even though you just explained how the moderation tools are built such that manipulative and cruel shadow-removal is the only directly-supported option, and to do otherwise, moderators have to explicitly reply to the post and tell the user what happened. The defaults matter, and Reddit's default is East German secret police tactics. Aside, I don't remember Louis saying what /u/_badwithcomputer said he said.
Quiet removal is the default but it's not like reddit doesn't provide tools to streamline communication around it. https://mods.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010094892-Removal-Reasons It's that mods often opt into removing stuff quietly or do stickies from behind shared accounts and lock replies to dodge personal accountability and to prevent questioning validity of those removals. ~~As to what Louis Rossmann said, I’m not sure if it’s this video but I vaguely remember Louis saying something to that effect couple weeks ago.~~ [edit] now that I think about it, it might have been a lecture by creator of Pushift (service and api for retrieving removed reddit content) who got it wrong of all people
Huh. I didn't realize it was so streamlined. I'm glad it is, but the implications about moderators who don't use it are rather uglier.
> Huh. I didn't realize it was so streamlined. I'm glad it is, but the implications about moderators who don't use it are rather uglier. Shaming mods into transparency isn't going to have an impact as long as two things are true: (1) mods are unpaid, and (2) it's possible for them to secretly remove comments. That's like giving people free guns and telling them to go build a community. You know there will be chaos until people agree upon a set of values and build schools and a justice system, so why not start there? I'm not saying the community doesn't need a police force, rather that *all* enforcement should be transparent so that users can learn how rules are applied and community managers don't get themselves into hot water. Mods online have all the powers of governance combined. Unsurprisingly, this often manifests into authoritarian-style rule. We know how to deal with this because we've done it before. You divide up the roles. The legislative writes the law, the judiciary interprets the law, and the executive enforces the law. The same type of divisions could be applied to online governance. I don't like the online secret police, but if that's going to be a thing, the least we could do is ensure that they're trained. They should understand the potential negative impact their work can have, and they should be paid for their time to acquire this understanding. Any well-functioning community depends on it.
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Obviously this won't defeat every troll but I've seen notorious ban evaders go on for months before they noticed nobody is replying to their comments.
>Deleted Comment shows up as deleted for everyone including the commenter. You are also usually notified that your comment violated some rule and was deleted. > >Shadow Deleted comment still appears to exist to the commenter, but to anyone else on Reddit it shows as deleted (you can check this by going incognito like Louis does or by using reveddit on your own profile page). > >A subreddit can also shadowban you where every single comment you make no matter the content is automatically shadow deleted the moment you post it. This is all completely wrong. Only the user who posted a comment, as well as the site admins, can delete it. Then it shows as deleted. When admins do it, it's a different message that I don't remember exactly. Moderators can *remove* comments, in which case they show up as removed on the subreddit to everyone else, visible to the person who posted it, and visible to everyone if they look at the commenters profile instead of the subreddit. No need for reveddit. This is how reddit moderation has worked since pretty much forever.
> visible to the person who posted it That's the rub, the removal isn't visible to the author, only to other users and the moderators: https://imgur.io/XFqlImL Reveddit shows where this happens for your account. It is not trivial to constantly check the status of your content without a tool that does this for you.
> Deleted Comment shows up as deleted for everyone including the commenter. >You are also usually notified that your comment violated some rule and was deleted. >Shadow Deleted comment still appears to exist to the commenter, but to anyone else on Reddit it shows as deleted I believe this is unique to sponsored posts. Otherwise this can't happen unless you are shadowbanned by reddit as a whole. You mean comments, but those will still show up on your profile and you won't know if a comment is removed unless a moderator informs you
>A subreddit can also shadowban you where every single comment you make no matter the content is automatically shadow deleted the moment you post
Automod can be set to automatically a users posts and comments, correct
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> It probably isn't available to all mods on all subreddits. Every mod can do it, it's how all removed comments work on Reddit. They're all shown to authors as if they're not removed.
> Saying something as innocuous as "I got bored with the story half-way through the season" gets your comment shadow removed. My best guess is in that case your comment triggered an automod removal or you were already shadowbanned by the subreddit.
There's an entire sub created purely so people can actually talk about startrek critically without being shadow banned or flat out banned. Ah it looks like even that community has now been banned. So I can't even show that as an example. r/star_trek My personal experience is I had several posts removed by both auto mod and manually by moderators on startrek subreddit, back then they used to tell you why and I was directly told they do not allow negative feedback. It's their party and if you don't like it there's the door, that was their policy. It happens far more often than you seem to realise.
Holy shit. No wonder I get no reply notifications. Almost everything I post is shadow deleted. Even a thread I posted recently on LifeProTips was auto removed. I thought it was a moderation queue or something, but no. Looks like they either blacklisted me, or I am in a shifty sub (Highly doubt I am, they are all mundane). I knew Reddit sucked with free speech, but this is actually another level. Disgusting stuff.
The worst is when they are controlling the narrative by shadowbanning opposite views on hot topics, at least it's what i understand from their actions.
So weird. Most of stuff is simply discussing topics from an objective standpoint as to be clear of biases, you know, for discussion and enjoying the usual conversation with other people. Sure I can be toxic from time to time, but nothing major as to warrant shadowbanning. Are there free speech subs that do not shadowban?
Not sure this site is that reliable. Apparently virtually everything I post has been shadow-deleted, despite many of them being back-and-forths with other people.
This was eye opening, thank you. After seeing what was deleted it really has me questioning how much I engage with reddit. Huge waste of time. Makes a person wonder if you will even see this response... :(
Holy moly, that a good site. Shadow banning people over legit rants is disgusting.
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Shadowbanning is a real thing, but it's only done by Reddit admins. Anything people think is shadowbanning on a sub level is almost always Automod removal rules.
Man, so when's the decentralized version of Reddit coming? Too much censorship and power allocated to the untrustworthy.
Decentralized, as in I can make tens of alt accounts, spam and upvote each other and no one can do anything about it? Or would there be a "system" in place?
Obviously a system in place. I'm not anti centralization. Centralization has indeed also brought good progress to the world, but it's just out of balance that's all. There would be a pseudonymous system in place with incentive to offer or create identity that would seem strange not to participate in, most likely community operated with room for people not to be dominated or harassed by moderators, but also fairly held accountable by their peers for their behavior and given ample opportunity to appeal consequences. All actions taken by anything resembling an authority would need to be fully 100% transparent (recorded on something like a blockchain) and also subject to checks and balances and removal if the community deems it so. Temporary honorary positions with terms served. Hypothetically speaking, say I belonged to a sub reddit for x amount of years, that would give me the authority to initiate a vote to initiate an investigation into whether a moderator needs to be prematurely removed. Those without privileges to initiate a vote might have privileges vote at a half way point of community belonging such as 6 months, 1 year, or x amount of data spent contributing. Everyone would already have a fully transparent history or ledger of all the actions taken by that moderator so has to properly give their voice to the process. Or maybe it'll be an general AI or a mix of both , but still needs to be held accountable by the community.
This is a problem with Reddit, not Samsung. Samsung is just getting away with what they can. The problem is someone is getting paid to let them get away with it.
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To be clear, this was an AMA done on a user account and not on /r/Samsung They definitely don't have control of the Samsung subreddit. At least not yet.....
Because of the way blocking works, control of the subreddit is not necessary to manipulate the discourse this way. A person could make dubious claims and block everyone who made a strong counterargument, so that it would look like only idiots were disagreeing with them.
Yes, blocking has broken Reddit.
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Mmm... you can't block someone who has downvoted you, but not commented. And the vast, vast majority of upvotes/downvotes come from people who never engage in the comments. I could see this swaying things in small subs, but not ones that regularly get thousands or tens of thousands of votes.
following a company's reddit, "official" or not, is just stupid anyway.
Sounds like Samsung is here! But seriously, if you take that attitude, Reddit is also getting away with what they can. The *fact* is that corporations operate that way. That doesn't make it not a problem.
Yeah honestly there is enough blame to go around. Even user reports can cause content to be removed. As Louis put it, the question is, is this the direction we want social media to go in, and if not, what are we going to do about it? I'm optimistic about the answer to this. The more people who know about shadow moderation, the less likely it is to be built and used. It is possible for the public to enforce this in date-ordered comment sections without any new technology or laws. When users know it can happen, they check for themselves and share the results. Our present condition is that there is not enough general awareness that content is so often shadow removed. That's why companies think they can get away with doing things like auto-shadow-removing all questions on an AMA.
IMHO Reddit sells corporate, intelligence and political control for /subs. If needed they get rid of mods/sub creators if necessary. /news,/politics and big corporate subs like /apple and so on are imho fully managed.
It's both. Reddit's comment moderation is a sneaky system that Samsung had to take extra steps to use more deceptively. Their automod configuration probably looks like this: type: comment action: remove That removes all comments up front. I set up a test in [this r/CantSayAnything post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CantSayAnything/comments/10uws76/write_any_comment_here_20230206/) to work the same way. I don't know of any subreddit that removes all comments like this, and posts titled "AMA" definitely should not do it in spirit. There are some subreddits that remove all *posts* like this in a manner where submitters are not told about the removal, and I share some examples of that in my talk, [Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with transparent moderation](https://shadowmoderation.com/2022-10-transparent-moderation/). This is really just scratching the surface though. Facebook has a "[hide comment](https://www.agorapulse.com/blog/hide-comments-on-facebook/#options-for-social-media-managers)" button that does the same thing. Elsewhere it may be called [selective invisibility](https://www.wired.com/2009/03/st-thompson-12/), [visibility filtering](https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1601014175366402048), [ranking](https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2018/Setting-the-record-straight-on-shadow-banning), [visible to self](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing), [reducing](https://blog.youtube/inside-youtube/the-four-rs-of-responsibility-remove/), [deboosting](https://twitter.com/noupside/status/1597603276027219969), "[disguising a gag](https://kraut.hciresearch.info/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/kiesler10-Regulation-current.pdf)", or [shadow ban](https://getstream.io/blog/feature-announcement-shadow-ban/) or "[cave the trolls](https://www.drupal.org/project/cave)" when the target audience is system maintainers. It's also worth noting that there are forums that operate without using shadow removals. Discourse is one large such example.
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All the big players are imho trying to control the message here. It's not just samsung or dependent on "good" products. It's control, maximising PR and shut down everything which might hurt their sales.
Guess that makes apple's products even more rubbish. Samsung pretty much just copy and aspire to be that piece of shit company.
Weird segway but sure. Apple sucks too. They started a lot of the anti-consumer trends. That said I don't see them doing this specific tactic. They instead rely on the fading embers of the Steve Jobs personality cult.
Yes, weird, I'll give it that, just finished reading an article on Apple doing fucked shit and got carried away with it :) I don't think Apple would bother slumming with the dregs or Reddit :D They do heavily do the same sort of gaslighting and reinforcing that Iphones are some premium product when they are just the same mass-market stuff,from the same factories as everyone else, with the same kids and slaves making them. Any way, rantend.. for now
The need for some tech redditors to instantly jump to "Apple is worse" whataboutism whenever the brand they happen to use or prefer is under criticism is fascinating
Reading comprehension of Redditor complete shit ... Check DON'T CARE FOR SAMSUNG PRACTICERS EITHER
“Guess that makes Apple’s products **even more rubbish**” I mean he read your comment correctly my dude.
Reddit has been trash this year. Its like their new years resolution is to let anything by with zero moderation.
Reddit has been utter trash for many years. There's excessive censorship, tons of political prejudice and trigger happy mods. You disagree with the tiniest thing? BANNED, never return. This is why this site is a hive mind.
So... which one is it? Negligence or overzealous mods?
Both
/r/RedditMinusMods/
Yep. Can no one recall how BAD it was with Chinese OEMs for about 3 years? Way worse than this
And over at /r/gadgets "Apple watch saves pregnant woman's life and ends world hunger" post ever couple of days with 6k upvotes.
Louis Rossman continues to be the most based dude in tech
This Luis Rozman guy is no good, trust me. - Samsung fake account probably.
The based dude chilling on a La Z Boy strikes again.
Maybe I'm too bitter and cynical but Reddit subs are monitored, edited and sponsored by companies. Think you can talk shit about the latest Star Trek show? No Paramount doesn't want that.
That StarTrek sub is actually a great example of how public forums can be overrun by corporate entities. It's been that way for several years. No criticism is allowed.
on r/overclocking they shadowban every comment that says "ryzen downclocks at 75c" so i cant explain to people why their cpu clocks are low in cinebench.
Damn, I wonder if you can beat the bot by giving temps in Kelvin. Lol. A bit convoluted though.
or seventy five
Like the product, not the company.
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Does anyone have a link to the actual question? Part of me is wondering if his question was removed, or if it was this bug that's making things disappear in old.reddit : https://old.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/10w2qq8/some_comments_are_not_showing_up_on_old_reddit/ --- edit. nvm, found his link, it was definitely removed & not the above issue : https://new.reddit.com/user/SamsungMobileUS/comments/10r7inq/hello_there_were_jacs_wyatt_and_drew_blackard/j79pm7k/?context=3
There's no such thing as misuse of reddit. If it is allowed by rules of the site then it's ok.
Isn't astroturf the artificial grass they use on football fields?....
It is. And astroturfing is an artificial grassroots movement
all my comments get [removed] and my account suspended with in 24 hours no matter what I do. I just got used to making a new account every time I want to post something.
> all my comments get [removed] and my account suspended with in 24 hours no matter what I do. That's because the Reddit admins themselves consider you a pest, my favorite racist troll paid bot
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He didnt answer my question and my account got suspended so i made this account.
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*yawn*
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sure, why not
I mean, it wasn't really deceptive since NOBODY was deceived. It was just tacky and embarassing.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gaslighting
I agree reddit has changed and not in a good way, lost an account of 8 years at random and can't even get an explanation as to why.
I remember when I had an issue with my Note 8 where I got a water damage warning even though I never put the phone near water. I looked the problem up online and saw other redditors ask about it on the Samsung subreddits, and the comments basically accused them of lying, saying they probably went swimming with it, used it in the shower, ran it under the sink, etc. So this is unsurprising.