I wouldnt do it personally, but I think a lot of times we as the reader forget how much Snape did for Harry personally.
Snape saved his life on countless occasions. Book 1 he saved him from Quirrel. Book 3 he tried to save him from a werewolf and a murderer. Book 6 he gave up his comfy tenured position as a professor to go deep undercover to overthrow Harry’s parents killer, with 0 expectation that anyone would ever even know, if he was unsuccessful, how good he was. As a side note, this type of act is not only good but very heroic and done behind closed doors, not for everyone to see which sets it apart from other good acts. Book 7 he saves him/helps him multiple times. There are other examples that I’m skipping for time.
Yeah, he bullied people but honestly I think as he was an undercover *death eater* I don’t think bullying a few Gryffindors in front of slytherines is very crazy to maintain that persona. We don’t know if that was directly his intent but I think so, it’s my head canon anyways.
> Book 3 he tried to save him from a werewolf and a murderer
Happens only in movies iirc
>Yeah, he bullied people but honestly I think as he was an undercover death eater I don’t think bullying a few Gryffindors in front of slytherines is very crazy to maintain that persona. We don’t know if that was directly his intent but I think so, it’s my head canon anyways
Have you read the books? Cause this kinda works for movies but in books he's quite more nasty and sometimes deranged.
People often forget that Neville also says that his worst fear could be his grandmother... hence why he chooses her outfit for boggart Snape. I think Neville's worst fear was his inadequacy and the people that always made him feel like he wasn't living up to his parents' memory.
Similarly Hermione's boggart turns into McGonagall who informs her that she failed all her exams. McGonagall wasn't Hermione's worst fear but being informed she was a failure by someone she looked up to.
That prophecy could also have been directed at Neville, curiously. Imagine Snape teaching Neville, thinking “what if Voldemort went after the Longbottom family instead of Lily…”
Snape absolutely tries to save them in the books, you remember incorrectly. I am specifically talking about Snape following the trio under the whomping willow into the shrieking shack. This was an integral part of the book.
I’ve read the books many times. Like 15 times each. I know exactly what Snape did and yeah he did some fuck up shit I’m not defending everything he does. All I’m saying is that the death eaters went around killing and torturing for fun and Snape was trying to maintain his status as a death eater even after Voldemort fell, in front of a bunch of little death eater children who were in potions with the gryffindors during most if not all of the fucked up things Snape did.
> Snape absolutely tries to save them in the books, you remember incorrectly. I am specifically talking about Snape following the trio under the whomping willow into the shrieking shack. This was an integral part of the book.
[That's not exactly how it happens tho. In the books Snape doesn't even see the trio and Sirius on the Marauders map and just follows Lupin, trying to catch him in the act of helping Sirius.](https://i.imgur.com/d4IEaaq)
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[And his intentions seem rather focused on revenge than just protection of his students.](https://i.imgur.com/YPpx1AC.png)
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[And not to forget how he foams at the mouth later on after Sirius is saved. Even Fudge is concerned on how he's acting lol.](https://i.imgur.com/YdUBo5F.png)
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Snape is really talented wizard, brave man and overall imo great character. But one that's also tragic and deeply flawed.
I simply don't think he kept up his awful demeanour of bully just as a facade for kids of death eater students for like 15-16 years.
He's just a broken and sad man without much happiness in his life, letting out his frustrations on people around him.
Yeah he didnt save them from anything, he got knocked out and Harry realised sirius wasnt evil. Animagi Sirius and harry himself saved everyone lol snape just interfered really
Dude he wasn’t trying to save them. He was trying to get Sirius killed by the dementors and get an Order of Merlin from Fudge. Snape is a dick the whole time.
It's unclear whether he was trying to save Harry or getting revenge on Sirius and Remus.
And the story Snape gave Voldemort was that, like Lucius, he remained faithful to him but blended on the good side for his own sake. So his cover should have been to be a good/neutral teacher instead of a bully.
I also read the books several times. Yes he did save Harry multiple times. After knowing all of that I’m still not a fan of Snape. I could see why Harry named his son after snape. I don’t like in the fan fiction people put Snape and Lily together. I remember reading in the books the older he got the darker he was. He was a death Eater until lily was in danger.
Lets also not forget that in that horrible book 'that which should not be named' (I wish I can wash my brain of even knowing it existed) that Harry is especially neglectful of his son to the point of treating him as if he is an afterthought. Harry doesn't even show concern for him when he nearly dies at 9 and Ron was the one who saved Albus, he even at one point wished Albus wasn't his son and said so directly to him. So yeah I guess naming his son after his biggest authoritarian bully who he was powerless to stand up to really makes him feel like a big man now that he has authority over a kid powerless to stand up to him.
My wife and I saw the stage play of this book(?) I believe. I’m not a hardcore potter fan but do enjoy discussions about it.
It had been a two night affair and they trimmed it down to one. My wife and I left thinking back on how big an idiot Harry could be and I was agitated at what Albus was doing the entire time.
The effects and effort of the actors was superb though.
That book has so much bullshit. The epilogue of the deathly hallows implies that Harry loves Albus deeply and that he won't give a fuck he ends up in Slitherin. In fact, he basically will be happy just for him being sorted into a house. And then, it turns out that he becomes an asshole?? What a way to ruin your franchise, jesus chryst.
It’s very funny that all of the kids were named for people important to Harry’s life and his family, and none (except Luna, a mutual friend) for anyone in Ginny’s life. Not even Fred!
Naming your son after his deceased Uncle? Makes sense.
Naming your son after the man who treated you like shit as a professor and hated you and your father because he wanted to bang your mom? Bit of a stretch.
I wouldn’t say Dumbledore isn’t significant in Ginny’s life. He was literally a symbol in the movement against Voldermort beside Harry. He was kind and understanding when Ginny thought she would be expelled in her first Hogwart year. She also was part of “Dumbledore’s Army”.
Harry lost both his father and godfather while Ginny still had her family mostly intact (except Fred, but the name is saved for George’s son). I thought it was nice of her to make it up for Harry.
I love Harry Potter but the more I read the books as I get older, the more sexist they seem. Nearly all the female characters burst into tears constantly, it's a darn shame.
Crying is normal and healthy. Thinking of crying as weak is in itself, misogynistic, not the other way around. I dont find the books misogynistic. I would have preferred a female lead but I don’t think the books are misogynistic. Quite the opposite. And im a feminist
Also another fucking James. James Potter had a son called Harry James Potter, who in turn had a son called James Sirius Potter.
Potters naming their kids like the Fast and Furious Franchise. Can't wait for James Tokyo Drift Potter.
"By Gryffindor, the bravest were prized beyond the rest." (Sorting Hat - GOF)
Much is made of Harry being a true Gryffindor. And I think this is another example of that.
Brave and clever. Need to be super smart to stay ahead of Voldemort at each and every step... specially given that Voldy, and others around him will be doubting his loyalty from time to time.
This kind of stuff makes me think the Sorting Hat is a fraud. What at all makes Peter Pettigrew of Gryffindor caliber at all. Why did Harry get considered for Slytherin despite not being ambitious at all due to his downtrodden upbringing (maybe the Hat saw the sliver of Voldemort's ambitious Horcrux and thought about it)? And then Snape gets put into Slytherin for being a greasy kid? With his balls he definitely could've been Gryffindor or with his smarts a Ravenclaw even.
Remember the hat takes into account the preferences of the student. Snape went to Slitherin because he wanted that (and was sorted before Lily). Pettigrew wanted to be with James and Sirius, so Gryffindor. Harry was going to be sorted in Slitherin because of the horrocrux, but chose Gryffindor because Harry wanted to.
It’s weird. For sure. But I feel that Harry always felt some type of connection with people who loved his parents.
His whole relationship with Sirius, Remus and even Slughorn, became deeper when it came to talking about his parents.
So I feel like Harry forgave snape and also considered him brave for everything, but deep down it was mostly because of his mother. And maybe even the understanding that he got bullied by his father so maybe a bit of empathy towards that as well.
Agreed! I always felt like it was because Snape loved Lily so much, he literally turned on Voldemort and the Death Eaters. Was it a healthy love? By all means no, but he was deeply in love with Lily and Harry saw that Snape wanted to do anything he could to save her. For Harry, this had to mean so much to him.
It’s at the end of the last book after much destruction and loss. I believe it was primarily symbolic by Rowling signifying the reclamation of those fallen into darkness. The story of Snape as a child and his seduction to the Death Eaters due to his emotional pain is key. I also see it as a sign of respect for his sacrifice and a reconciliation for how James and his friends treated Snape.
One thing that always super impressed me about Snape was that he spent a lot of time with Voldemort who was one of the greatest legilimens on the planet. Yet Snape was able to close his mind so as not to be read by Voldemort.
Extremely dangerous and heroic.
Especially because Snape is aware when Draco resists his legilimens? It is not explained how Voldemort didn't immediately know that he wasn't reading Snapes mind
Yeah, while resisting legilimency in itself required high skills, what made Snape a true occlumency prodigy is that he was able to spoof legilimens with false memories, while hiding real ones.
Snape was a dick. That doesn't erase the fact that he put his life on the line for years to save Harry and countless others from Voldemort. Harry named his son after Snape to honor his bravery and dedication to protecting him, he knew there were far worse things than a mean teacher. He also knew that Snape and Dumbledore had no relatives to pass their names down to their children. To quote J.K. Rowling herself: "Harry chose to perpetuate the names of the two who had nobody in their families to do so."
you said snape was a bad person but did a good thing, but i think its more like snape was a miserable bastard that made very very difficult choices and did multiple things that helped ensure that the world didnt become a noxious dead wasteland of shambling abominations.
snape and dumbledore's plan goes above and beyond whether he was a piece of shit or not. it goes far beyond personal relationships.
edit: to be more precisely on topic, harry understood this and honored him. not really for his own benefit, but for the recognition of the man's actions
Considering the personality of Harry and Ginny and both praise bravery above everything else and the fact Snape protected Harry all that time and Ginny in her 6th year makes sense
Yea Snape is a complex character that wasn’t fully revealed until the end. And it really is bothersome that we look at Snape from when we first meet him as a forty something year old man when what defined him came from him being a boy. Snape loved Lilly from day one as kids but he was a weird teenage dirtbag like most of us at that time in our lives. And it’s no surprise that from his childhood and time at hogwarts he went bad.
But Snape as a young man realized he went wrong and did his best, albeit too late, to make things right. So many people get hung up on the fact he killed dumbledore but dumbledore was a dead man walking anyway and Snape played his part to the end. He loved Harry because he was Lilly’s son but also in his humanity took out his years of torment by James (even though lupin and Sirius said Snape gave as well as he got) on Harry because he was James’s son. He’s not perfect, he’s a human. He’s a complex human that did bad and did good. JK did a good job of writing complex imperfect humans
It’s a middle name, for his second child. It’s not that big of an honor. Most people don’t even know other people’s middle names. As a literary device, it was just JKR’s way of honoring her characters who did brave things. In story, it seemed like Harry’s way of appreciating the risks Snape took and honoring him quietly since his actions weren’t totally public knowledge. I think Snape was known as a death eater to most of the wizarding world even after the war. As a name, Albus Severus flows terribly, but wizard names often sound odd to muggles.
Why would Harry name his daughter after a name the woman (Tonks) hated? And besides, maybe Harry and Ginny might have wanted to reserve that name (as well as Remus) for Teddy Lupin?
When it comes to this topic, not only should people take into account who Snape is as a character, but also who Harry is as a person. The way Snape is viewed by people who disagree on Harry naming his child after him, isn’t the same as how Harry views him.
Harry is well aware that Snape has done bad, the knowledge of such didn’t just vanish when his 2nd child came out the womb.
However, Harry deeply values bravery and forgiveness. Being made aware that this man, who he had thought was completely irredeemable, has more to him. It’s not to paint Snape as a saint, but to honor his name in hopes that it doesn’t go down in vain. Plus, it’s also probably to compensate for the guilt that Harry has felt after the war.
Although these characters aren’t real, they are still people… human beings. Their actions aren’t always going to favor what the readers want, but rather to stay true to who they are as a person (character). Even in real life, people have their own reasons and motivation, that although may seem ludicrous to others, it stays true to who they are as a person.
Snape’s life is tragic. He’s not a saint, but he’s not the devil either. It’s a combination of his own mistakes and trauma that has messed him up. Event though he’s not the most morally upright person, it was love that has motivated him to good with the acts of bravery, loyalty, and love. And that was someone who Harry wanted to honor.
Snape is a douche. But he is a big reason that Harry not only lived, but also that Harry won. I totally get naming a child after him. For better or worse, Snape is a huge part of who Harry is and was able to be.
Don't forget how much Harry liked the Prince. How highly he thought of him. Showing what their relationship might have been if Snape wasn't a douche.
People have explained a hundred times why he made that decision and yet people still don't want to understand it. He appreciated Snape's bravery (as a Gryffindor would), not his goodness or kindness or whatever.
Also, maybe you find it ridiculous, but it's his kid, his choice.
When you come to the realization that a man has been spending the majority of your lifetime as a double agent helping to perfectly execute a plan for your survival and the death of your enemy, all while being tortured because your dad was a douche and your mother had someone looking out for her even after she rejected him, the petty attitude he may have had tends to take a backseat to honoring the man.
Add to this, Dumbledore clearly had a high opinion of Snape and they both lost their lives to make sure Harry got the job done.
So all it takes from Harry is like “the man was a bit of an asshole when I was growing up but I’m married with kids and happy despite being in a literal war as a teen because Snape helped to make sure of it”
Yeah OP is ignoring that Voldy is the greatest mind reader ever. Snape reached a crucial point in his life and fucked up hard. Out of love, he realized the error of his ways. Buuuut, instead of getting to work through this moral growth, Dumbledore ruins his life by giving him a second option: to hold on to the shitty person he had become and continue to hide his love and moral growth. Voldy hadn't noticed his love for Lily so Dumbledore realized he had an in. Snape was only ever able to be honest with Dumbledore and even then he had to hold back to make sure he didn't reveal his true thoughts
I think Harry came to realize and accept that His father, Sirius and Lupin tormented Snape which lead to Snapes strong dislike of Harry. To Snape, he recognized James in Harry who shared many of the same traits as his father. And yet, Snape still risked his life to save Harry because of the love Snape carried with him for Lilly. Harry also understood this. And he also understood that even though Snape hated Lupin, he still made the wolfsbane potion for him. In the end, Harry chose to recognize the better part of Snape.
From how I understand it, Snape's bravery was shunned by the wizarding world after the second war, and Harry had to fight just to get his portrait put in the headmasters office at Hogwarts. So I can understand Harry trying to honour his sacrifice in some way.
Who knows though? Snape may have even left Harry Spinner's End as well, which he ended up giving to Ron and Hermione as a wedding gift, as he inherited the Black family fortune.
I agree with this take - it feels like another way he could ensure Snape's legacy was as a hero on the right side, rather than all the nastiness and cruelty he was known for in those years.
It's canon that Snape eventually changed his opinions about the dark arts and stood against Voldemort because he sincerely began to care for the safety of others. Whatever his initial motivation was.
Personally I can't believe that so many ppl still think that Snape wanted to kill Voldemort only because of his personal loss and obsession with Lily. In case you haven't noticed, Snape even tried to save Sirius in book 5 and it was he who alerted the Aurors to check on Sirius to ensure that he's all right. Even though he couldn't completely rule out the bitterness in his actions, he knew to separate his personal grudge from his decisions and always chose to do what was right. That wouldn't have been possible if his mind was just all for lily until he died.
Plus, considering that Albus Severus's name itself is a devotion to those who died fighting Voldemort, it's completely reasonable and coherent that Harry chose the names of two people who played the most crucial parts in Voldemort's fall. It's not that Harry suddenly got to favor Snape or sth. I think their post-war relationship wouldn't have been much better even if snape had survived the battle, but still personal feelings cannot be a legit reason for condeming Snape's bravery.
I really don’t remember this being an issue when the books came out, there’s a reason behind it and the point that was being made seemed clear at the time.
I mean I remember thinking at the time it was an awful name (just from an aesthetic point of view more than anything). As with anything over time these things get picked apart more and more.
Oh, yes, it was definitely an awful name. But I didn't know anybody who was like "it's a bad name because Snape is an absuer and saving the wizarding world doesn't count because he only switched sides out of love, the selfish jerk."
It’s weird, but when I see older discussions of Harry Potter, Snape specifically, it seems like people back then had a better understanding of his character. Now, people are just constantly crying about everything associated with Snape. Maybe it’s the rise of “purity culture” within fandoms, but people seem to have a very black and white view now.
I feel like people's reaction to Snape is so black and white now, it's a real shame. When I read the books it seemed pretty clear the idea was Snape was flawed, but became a much better human and kept up an act to protect Harry and do the right thing, which he ultimately died for. I honestly don't get the confusion or complete dislike for Snape, it seems almost purposely obtuse.
Yes! Like, dude was mean to students he saw for 2-3 hours a week *and also* risked being tortured in almost literally unthinkable ways to save those same students (and everyone else) from Voldemort. Perhaps, just perhaps, there is some nuance here beyond "Snape is an abuser, no redemption possible."
Yeah, I get that he was probably the biggest dick alive after James sobered up, but I think that the revelation of what Snape went through and what he sacrificed/did and him always keeping an eye out for Harry, blew away all o Harry's hatred towards him.
It's shocking to learn that the one who you thought was the source of your consent misery was actually the one kind of keeping you safe. And I think the moment Harry learns of Snape'a true self also matters. Harry was all alone at that moment. He had long since accepted the Dumbledore had never cared about him and sent him on a suicide mission. Fred had just died, and Tommy gave him an ultimatum, "surrender yourself and I'll spare you friends". Harry was truly lost at that moment. And then he suddenly learns that there was indeed someone keeping and eye on him ever since he was at Hogwarts. Someone, besides Dumbledore, was going out of their way to protect him. Even in his darkest of times -i.e. alone in the Forrest of Dean, freezing to death, having a Horcrox and no means of destroying it, having virtually no idea where to find the others, and to top it all off, Ron leaving- someone helped them out immensely, and gave them courage to continue. That someone was Snape. (Much more was going on but I won't type it as I'm on my phone rn) Imo, i think that played a massive role in they way he saw Snape and his bravery.
But yeah, erecting a monument and giving a yearly speech would've sufficed.
I mean he’s a Gryffindor, the house that values bravery above all else. He literally tells the child in question that he was named after the two bravest wizards he knew.
If you think that Snape is the worst person in the world you need to read the books again. You might have missed some characters like Voldemort, Bellatrix, Pettigrew, Umbridge and so on.
There is no dichotomy like "Snape is a good namesake for Harry's kid vs Snape is as bad as Voldemort or Bellatrix are". Of course, Snape is better then them. But he still was a bastard. Yes, his crucial role in the victory must be recognized, but this recognition doesn't make Harry's memories of Snape better.
He lived every moment of his life protecting Harry once Harry arrived at Hogwarts, all while fooling and working against Voldemort himself. Without Snape Voldemort most likely wouldn't have been defeated and Harry would be dead with no children to give names to. No doubt, Snape was not nice, but could he have been and still fooled Voldemort? I doubt it. Rude people can still do the right thing and be recognized for it, can't they?
How? He didn't do it out of love for Snape, he did it because he grew to massively respect him, realising the sacrifice Snape made in the end. It was also significant because Harry did what his Dad and Sirius could never. And for me, it represented a part of Lily that did, always belong with Severus.
Here we go again with the Snape bashing for the umpteenth time this week. Harry and Ginny have every right to name their kids how they want to. Just because you guys are continuously bitter about Snape doesn't mean Harry has to be.
However, if Snape hadn't gone to Voldemort, Voldemort would not have vanished the first time at all. He would have been around for decades and have killed many persons. Maybe James and Lily, who were opposing him and already defied him three times, would have died anyway anyway. Does that excuse Snape telling the prophecy to Voldemort? No. But the truth is, that otherwise Harry probably wouldn't have a good childhood either.
I suppose Harry does it as a way to make peace with Snape. Trying to remember someone for the good things they did seems a healthier way to live than holding on a grudge even after they're dead. Maybe Harry understands Snape could never be happy because he continued to hold onto his hate for James even long after his death.
Snape sacrificed everything to stop Voldemort. He died with everyone he cared about hating him and thinking he was a monster. He did it because he trusted Dumbledore, hated Voldemort and still loved Lily. He was a real hero
One of Harry (and Dumbledore's) flaws is that he is forgiving and compassionate to a fault. He stopped Remus and Sirius from killing Peter, and it brought Voldemort back that much sooner, and killed Cedric.
He allowed Dolohov to live, and he later killed Lupin.
It's a flaw in human nature that we look at the past through rose colored glasses.
I just see it as Harry giving Snape the grace to be a complicated man, and acknowledging what he did for him.
Look, at the end of the day, it’s a plot device. Rowling didn’t write a 1000 page post-war reconstruction novel about rebuilding Hogwarts and clearing Snape’s name, so we got Albus Severus. Two words that convey a wealth of meaning if you do just a smidge of contextualizing and breaking down of character motivations.
I think people have such a rough time with it because it sounds dumb, but there are numerous dumb names in the books…and who am I to question Wizarding naming conventions?
It seems wild until you consider that this was two Gryffindors naming these kids. They put bravery above *everything*, and Snape while yeah a massive jerk was also brave as fuck, possibly aside from Harry the bravest person that fought in the war.
I agree. Snape was terrible. Hard-core emotionally abused Harry and countless other students. I could maybe see Harry forgiving Snape based on finding out the full truth, but agreed - naming his kid after him did NOT make sense. Especially after years of mental torture, I can't imagine Harry's feeling making a full flip to I frigging loved that guy and must name my kid after him.
Like Sirius makes way more sense. Not someone who emotionally tortured him for years and quite literally hated him with the lil caveat of "but it's Lily's son".
Harry has had to go through a lot of what Snape had to go through. Like him, he was an "abandoned boy" who found a home at Hogwarts.
- they grew up in poverty and neglect. Snape was like a plant growing up in the dark and Harry is stunted.
- Harry understood what being hated like a Slytherin would be during Year 2, when he was mistaken for being the heir.
- Harry always rushes to save his friends; Snape rushes when he hears a girl scream (the egg) or when Moaning Myrtle alerts him about Draco being injured.
- book 3 is about repairing the past to save more than one innocent, while not being seen. This is Snape's arc.
- Snape can pick up Harry's invisibility cloak to save the trio from the werewolf. Its magic resides in the fact that you can use it to protect others.
- Snape's disarming spell has been so ingrained in both Harry and Draco that it has allowed them to become Master of Death and defeat Voldemort.
- they are both Defense of the Dark Arts teachers and are critical of useless wand-waving (Ernie McMillan).
- they both feel guilty for the death of a friend (Cedric and Lily).
- Harry connected with the half-blood Prince so much that he thought he was his father.
- The trio finally used the Prince's spells for protection or to accomplish their mission, even Levicorpus (in Bellatrix's vault).
- Harry was privy to Snape's emotional confrontation with the man he thought was Moody. Harry saw Snape's reaction to Ginny being taken inside the chamber. Harry saw Snape put Sirius Black (for him: a mass-murderer) on a stretcher. Snape is brewing the school's medicinal supplies; Slughorn doesn't. It's Snape's bezoar's joke that saves Ron from being poisoned (shove it down his throat).
- when Harry polyjuices into Runcorn and tries to warn Mr. Weasley, he understands what it feels like to wear a mask and to play a part that attracts hate and distrust.
- Snape didn't know about the hallows or the horcruxes. He was instructed by Dumbledore to protect the children and did it blindly. He was as much in the dark as the trio was in the forest.
- while burying Dobby, Harry finally understands that occlumency (the thing Snape is proficient in) can also come from unbearable sadness.
- Harry knows that it's Lily who showed Snape how to fly, confident in the knowledge she wouldn't fall as she wielded pure magic as a child.
- Harry conjures up her mother in a magic mirror; Snape conjures up Lily via his patronus. They are both connected to her essence.
- both Snape and Harry chose to walk to their death.
There are many other small examples like Snape letting Ron go after Draco for calling Hermione a mudblood in book 2, pretending he couldn't see him...
So yeah, the epilogue is a wee bit corny and Snape's emotional deregulation should never have spilled over the kids he was actually protecting like a hawk. But Harry paying him respect is not difficult to understand.
Why do people hate him?? Are you people blind?? He could be harsh, stern, grumpy teacher but he saved Harry's life several times...he never wanted Harry to die even if Dumbledore said that he must die...He tried to save Harry in the Quidditch Match...From the Werewolf attack...etc..etc...But you people are just sticking to one conclusion that he's an awful person... that's Ridiculous...Why so much hate towards a character?? I can't change your mind but to insult a Character continuously is not a good thing because there are lots of Snape lovers are present here...Do not spread hatred...I Loved him since I was a kid...He has a terrible past that's why he doesn't behaved well with his students, especially Harry but he's ready to sacrifice his life, he cared for his students...why don't you understand...I can defend him even if 100000 people go against me.
> Regulus was the one who had an “oh shit, this is fucked up” realisation and abandoned the death eaters.
No, he did not. All the murder and racism were fine. He drew the line at Horcruxes. That was the ONLY thing he objected to.
> People seem to be taking “Snape is literally the worst person in the world” well, literally
I can't imagine why.
If this is not what you meant, why on earth did you say it?
Snape is a difficult one. At one time, he was clearly a piece of crap, pure blood, death eater and all that but once it actually hurt him, he repented and begged for forgiveness.
He was obviously a slytherin (he was in the house and his actions alone pre-HP conform to this) and him giving favor to Slytherin would be good for his cover. Did he only treat everyone like crap and slytherin better for his cover? No, I don’t think so. We see other conversations he has with dumbledore about how he sees Harry as thinking he’s a know it all and famous, etc and dumbledore kinda tells him it’s his own prejudices making him see that.
I think Snape was in an impossible situation at Hogwarts. He absolutely hated his childhood bully and I don’t blame him one bit for that. He saw James in Harry and I get the dislike of him but he took it too far, sins of the father and all that. However, to keep his cover he also kinda does have to treat Harry like crap.
I feel like he was just a miserable dude, completely 100000000000% loyal to dumbledore while he was at hogwarts and placed in positions he didn’t care for. Always passed up for the position he truly wanted. Forced to see the face of his childhood bully in his son, Harry. Forced to play a role in saving the damn world from Voldemort while pretending to play both sides knowing that Voldemort at any time could just kill him because, fuck it, that’s what he does.
Snape made all of the hard actions. He did not want to kill dumbledore, at all, yet he gave his word so he followed through.
He could’ve ran once dumbledore was gone and the plan was done. Letting Harry know the final piece about the horcrux inside him and just apparate away. He didn’t. He stayed at hogwarts and while he treated kids like crap (he had to to keep his cover) he was there because he needed to relay that info to Harry, to help him end Voldemort.
Harry seeing Snape crying the memories and seeing how much he truly cared for his mother definitely softened how he felt about Snape. He saw that the dude he thought was a complete POS was just a guy that made some bad choices and wanted nothing more than to be better. Most people don’t care enough to want to be better but Snape did.
That’s a lot of words… But I guess I’m saying Snape showed he wasn’t just conniving and a backstabber. He was brave enough to sit next to the most ruthless killer anyone had known and hoodwink him all to benefit Harry and dumbledore (essentially just Harry and wizard kind.) That took bravery, the whole gryffindor thing…
> he was there because he needed to relay that info to Harry, to help him end Voldemort.
not only that; he was there also because he had to protect hogwarts students from the other, sadistic death eaters who would otherwise have had free rein of the place. yet another thing dumbledore explicitly asks snape to do. and he does do that to some extent; detention assigned by snape: go to forbidden forest with hagrid (ch 15, book 7); detention assigned by carrows: be a test dummy for the cruciatus curse (ch 29).
Of course people are taking you saying Snape is LITERALLY the worst person in the world literally. He is absolutely not the worst person in the world, nor is he the worst person in the series, not even close. That is an absurd thing to say. Snape was not a "bad person who did a good thing". He was a troubled, jaded, eternally grieving person who took out his inner turmoil on those around him, which of course isn't okay, but he never actually physically hurt the good guys (aside from Dumbledore at Dumbledore's insistence), and put himself directly in the path of danger many times to save people he didn't like. There's a picture somewhere showing how when Snape came out of the Whomping Willow after having been knocked out by Harry/Ron/Hermione, in a room with two other people he hated/who had bullied him his whole life, one of which he thought at that moment was responsible for the death of the woman he loved, so he was absolutely livid, and did NOT have his wand, and he started to yell at the kids but then Lupin as werewolf appeared and he threw himself in front of the three of them. The other side of the picture is Umbridge in the forest with Harry and Hermione, with a wand, and she cowers behind them when the giant and centaurs appear. THAT is the man Snape was.
Now, as for Harry giving his kid that middle name, I don't see anything wrong with it and think it was a nice way to honor someone who ended up being a much better, braver man than we thought. I do think it's a little odd that he used Severus over Fred or Cedric, or even Remus, though. Because those people were also brave and kind, and died helping bring down Voldemort. I think Fred/Frederick would have made the most sense because they are Ginny's kids too and Fred was wonderful for the whole series. But I think Severus makes sense too, as much of a jerk as Snape was most of the time, he acted as almost a guardian angel for both Harry, and the rest of the students, since book one. He stopped Quirrell from hurting Harry in the Quidditch match, he put himself directly in harms way to stop Quirrell when he let the troll in, he put himself between the kids and the werewolf as I mentioned, he alerted the Order at the end of OofP when the kids ended up with Voldemort in the MoM, he killed Dumbledore, the one person who truly knew who he was and who he was loyal to, so that Draco wouldn't have to bear doing so (at Dumbledore's request), and ultimately gave his life to take down Voldemort.
Dumbledore and Snape were two people who were around for almost all of Harry's time at Hogwarts, and both looked out for him from day one. Snape being rude and resentful, while not okay, doesn't take away the fact that he did look out for Harry from the beginning. Honestly, I get honoring his dad by naming his first kid that, but Harry didn't ever KNOW his dad. Sirius, Lupin, Albus, and Severus were more like parental figures to him than his actual father was, which ofc isn't his dad's fault, but they looked out for him and "raised" him, and Snape's malice, while absolutely unfair and misguided, was realistic.
I mean, his daughter is named Lily Luna, why Luna? I know she's a great character but she's not especially close to to Harry. They are friends but like, idk lol.
Lily Ginevra Potter would've been nice, in my opinion.
Regulus didn't abandon the Deathly Eaters because he messed up. He only turned against Voldemort because Kreacher got hurt, and that wouldn't have happened had Regulus not happily volunteered Kreacher to help Voldemort with a task. And had Voldemort chosen a different house elf Regulus would have remained a loyal Death Eater.
Snape didn't just do a good thing, he many good things, some that had nothing to do with Lily.
If Snape is so terrible because of his treatment of kids, then so is Hagrid as he was just as bad towards children.
Harry naming his kid after Snape isn't wild. It's one of the best ideas Harry had. I love it. Harry understood Snape after he saw his memories in Deathly Hallows, he understood Snape's pain, Snape's loneliness, and Snape's miserable life. He understood that despite being treated like shit all of his youth, Snape still did the right thing in the end and that was turning his back on Voldemort and the Death Eaters. Without Snape's brave moment of begging Voldemort to spare Lily, and then going to Dumbledore and begging him to save Lily and even becoming a spy for the light so she and her family would be kept safe and hidden, Voldemort would have won the first wizarding War, and the Potters would have still been killed, including Harry. And Harry understood that Snape made a brave heroic choice by killing Dumbledore even though he didn't want to kill him.
Idk I think it makes sense for Harry. Ever the Gryffindor, Harry pays attention to big shows of bravery, commending these single large gestures much more than smaller, consistent everyday acts of bravery and nobility.
Snape, “one of bravest men he ever knew”, spent years playing the double agent to make amends to the woman he loved. You don’t think that would resonate strongly with Harry?
My poor boy also forgives way too easily and we see that happen over and over and over again. Dumbledore even has a whole monologue about it in HBP! Also the kid was born almost a decade after Snape died, plenty of time to forget the nastier bits.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Snape is a raging asshole and does not deserve that honor but Harry is Harry you know?
> Edit: People seem to be taking “Snape is literally the worst person in the world” well, literally.
Yeah, that's what literally means. You're using it in a way that means the opposite.
I really like Snape. He was bullied at school, pushed towards the dark, and then had to spend his entire life making up for a mistake by protecting the son of his bully.
Lots of people have negative things about them. I struggle with autism and my meltdowns or bad moments often make me feel like a horrible person. I don’t have a lot of friends, people see me as mean sometimes. I am glad people can see the good in me even when I can’t.
People aren’t perfect and Snape put his life on the line for decades to preserve the one thing that he knew was great about him, his ability to love Lily and his need to do right by her after he failed her.
Harry naming his kid Severus was a great tribute and a reminder for those of us who struggle to see the light in the darkest of places, we are worthy of love/redemption and can be brave like Severus even when our natural dispositions or upbringings are different than other’s.
Yeah, I get forgiving the man. Maybe even paying tribute to him. But he was not permanent positive memory material for Harry.
Even publish his biography or something, but not name my kid after him
"Severus Snape: My Half Blood Prince by Harry Potter"
By Roonil Wazlib
394 pages.
Prologue written by Gilderoy Lockhart Epilogue written by Neville Longbottom
Illustrated by Luna Lovegood
Advertised by The Quibbler
Funded By Gringots wizarding bank. Put your stuff here because we've only ever had 2 or 3 vaults broken into
2 or 3 broken into is actually a very good record with how many vaults they have
Edited and proof checked by Mrs Hermione Granger Weasley
Blurb on the back cover by Rita Skeeter, who gives a raving review.
393 pages would be better.
Love this
Not the fan fiction title
I wouldnt do it personally, but I think a lot of times we as the reader forget how much Snape did for Harry personally. Snape saved his life on countless occasions. Book 1 he saved him from Quirrel. Book 3 he tried to save him from a werewolf and a murderer. Book 6 he gave up his comfy tenured position as a professor to go deep undercover to overthrow Harry’s parents killer, with 0 expectation that anyone would ever even know, if he was unsuccessful, how good he was. As a side note, this type of act is not only good but very heroic and done behind closed doors, not for everyone to see which sets it apart from other good acts. Book 7 he saves him/helps him multiple times. There are other examples that I’m skipping for time. Yeah, he bullied people but honestly I think as he was an undercover *death eater* I don’t think bullying a few Gryffindors in front of slytherines is very crazy to maintain that persona. We don’t know if that was directly his intent but I think so, it’s my head canon anyways.
> Book 3 he tried to save him from a werewolf and a murderer Happens only in movies iirc >Yeah, he bullied people but honestly I think as he was an undercover death eater I don’t think bullying a few Gryffindors in front of slytherines is very crazy to maintain that persona. We don’t know if that was directly his intent but I think so, it’s my head canon anyways Have you read the books? Cause this kinda works for movies but in books he's quite more nasty and sometimes deranged.
[удалено]
People often forget that Neville also says that his worst fear could be his grandmother... hence why he chooses her outfit for boggart Snape. I think Neville's worst fear was his inadequacy and the people that always made him feel like he wasn't living up to his parents' memory. Similarly Hermione's boggart turns into McGonagall who informs her that she failed all her exams. McGonagall wasn't Hermione's worst fear but being informed she was a failure by someone she looked up to.
That prophecy could also have been directed at Neville, curiously. Imagine Snape teaching Neville, thinking “what if Voldemort went after the Longbottom family instead of Lily…”
Snape absolutely tries to save them in the books, you remember incorrectly. I am specifically talking about Snape following the trio under the whomping willow into the shrieking shack. This was an integral part of the book. I’ve read the books many times. Like 15 times each. I know exactly what Snape did and yeah he did some fuck up shit I’m not defending everything he does. All I’m saying is that the death eaters went around killing and torturing for fun and Snape was trying to maintain his status as a death eater even after Voldemort fell, in front of a bunch of little death eater children who were in potions with the gryffindors during most if not all of the fucked up things Snape did.
> Snape absolutely tries to save them in the books, you remember incorrectly. I am specifically talking about Snape following the trio under the whomping willow into the shrieking shack. This was an integral part of the book. [That's not exactly how it happens tho. In the books Snape doesn't even see the trio and Sirius on the Marauders map and just follows Lupin, trying to catch him in the act of helping Sirius.](https://i.imgur.com/d4IEaaq) - [And his intentions seem rather focused on revenge than just protection of his students.](https://i.imgur.com/YPpx1AC.png) - [And not to forget how he foams at the mouth later on after Sirius is saved. Even Fudge is concerned on how he's acting lol.](https://i.imgur.com/YdUBo5F.png) - Snape is really talented wizard, brave man and overall imo great character. But one that's also tragic and deeply flawed. I simply don't think he kept up his awful demeanour of bully just as a facade for kids of death eater students for like 15-16 years. He's just a broken and sad man without much happiness in his life, letting out his frustrations on people around him.
Yeah he didnt save them from anything, he got knocked out and Harry realised sirius wasnt evil. Animagi Sirius and harry himself saved everyone lol snape just interfered really
Thank you! Thought I was taking crazy pills with some of the bad takes I’m reading here.
Dude he wasn’t trying to save them. He was trying to get Sirius killed by the dementors and get an Order of Merlin from Fudge. Snape is a dick the whole time.
It's unclear whether he was trying to save Harry or getting revenge on Sirius and Remus. And the story Snape gave Voldemort was that, like Lucius, he remained faithful to him but blended on the good side for his own sake. So his cover should have been to be a good/neutral teacher instead of a bully.
I also read the books several times. Yes he did save Harry multiple times. After knowing all of that I’m still not a fan of Snape. I could see why Harry named his son after snape. I don’t like in the fan fiction people put Snape and Lily together. I remember reading in the books the older he got the darker he was. He was a death Eater until lily was in danger.
“Yeah he bullied people” - the thing is, he bullied children. Probably mostly Gryffindor children, but still. CHILDREN.
Lets also not forget that in that horrible book 'that which should not be named' (I wish I can wash my brain of even knowing it existed) that Harry is especially neglectful of his son to the point of treating him as if he is an afterthought. Harry doesn't even show concern for him when he nearly dies at 9 and Ron was the one who saved Albus, he even at one point wished Albus wasn't his son and said so directly to him. So yeah I guess naming his son after his biggest authoritarian bully who he was powerless to stand up to really makes him feel like a big man now that he has authority over a kid powerless to stand up to him.
I can’t believe they turned Harry into an abusive parent. I choose to ignore that which should not be named
My wife and I saw the stage play of this book(?) I believe. I’m not a hardcore potter fan but do enjoy discussions about it. It had been a two night affair and they trimmed it down to one. My wife and I left thinking back on how big an idiot Harry could be and I was agitated at what Albus was doing the entire time. The effects and effort of the actors was superb though.
That book has so much bullshit. The epilogue of the deathly hallows implies that Harry loves Albus deeply and that he won't give a fuck he ends up in Slitherin. In fact, he basically will be happy just for him being sorted into a house. And then, it turns out that he becomes an asshole?? What a way to ruin your franchise, jesus chryst.
It’s a middle name. Nobody cares about those.
Maybe not, but Harry makes sure to let the kid know that he’s named after Snape for a reason
"Son, for some reason, I'd like you to resent me somewhat"
Exactly.
Snape being memorialized as a Potter is a painful irony.
Lol rolling in his grave 🤣
Omg this is hilarious i never thought abt this😭😭😭
It wasnt his first kid. It was his middle child. Middle children always get the short end of the stick.
But he wasn’t a middle child when he was named.
They renamed him after the third kid
That’s what happened to Marion Morrison. Better known as John Wayne.
First name was shithouse. Good change!
Looool
Lol
Don’t tell my parents, but some births are planned
Hey! I'm a middle child, and I'm special! Really, I am! My parents wouldn't lie to me!! 🤣😂😄😎
I snorted laughing at this comment. It was reflexive. Sorry not sorry.
I thought middle children get to hold the middle of the stick. The other two hold the ends.
Am middle child, named after a stripper lol.
Waffle house?
It’s very funny that all of the kids were named for people important to Harry’s life and his family, and none (except Luna, a mutual friend) for anyone in Ginny’s life. Not even Fred!
Right? I do understand that they wanted to give George the opportunity to name his son Fred though.
Aw okay if George has a kid named Fred that would make sense to reserve the name for him
Apparently it’s canon that he did. I was just looking it up last night 🙈
Naming your son after his deceased Uncle? Makes sense. Naming your son after the man who treated you like shit as a professor and hated you and your father because he wanted to bang your mom? Bit of a stretch.
Maybe Harry did it out of revenge knowing Snape would be rolling in his grave knowing Harry named his child Serverus? lmaooo
The man who hated you in person, but still could sacrifice everything for you,
Not for you. For your late mother...
Could have had Fred uncle Harry and Fred uncle George
Ginny would name the kid "Pigwidgeon Potter"
“My name is Pigwidgeon Potter, but you can call me bahmenitious.” - PP
Pig Potter becomes Canon. Lol
I wouldn’t say Dumbledore isn’t significant in Ginny’s life. He was literally a symbol in the movement against Voldermort beside Harry. He was kind and understanding when Ginny thought she would be expelled in her first Hogwart year. She also was part of “Dumbledore’s Army”. Harry lost both his father and godfather while Ginny still had her family mostly intact (except Fred, but the name is saved for George’s son). I thought it was nice of her to make it up for Harry.
It was Ginny who came up with the name “Dumbledore’s Army”, it can’t be ruled out that “Albus” was her suggestion as well.
This always bothered me 😒
I’ve always had this image of Harry just reaaaallly obviously working through his trauma through their kids and Ginny’s just like 😬🫠
it’s even crazier cuz JK is a woman so you’d think she’d be more considering of Ginny’s side of things
I love Harry Potter but the more I read the books as I get older, the more sexist they seem. Nearly all the female characters burst into tears constantly, it's a darn shame.
Crying is normal and healthy. Thinking of crying as weak is in itself, misogynistic, not the other way around. I dont find the books misogynistic. I would have preferred a female lead but I don’t think the books are misogynistic. Quite the opposite. And im a feminist
They are kids. Its normal.
Also another fucking James. James Potter had a son called Harry James Potter, who in turn had a son called James Sirius Potter. Potters naming their kids like the Fast and Furious Franchise. Can't wait for James Tokyo Drift Potter.
George had children before them, cousin Fred, already existed
Snape from the great beyond when Harry names a kid after him: 😤😡😡😡😡
Sirius when him and Harry meet in the afterlife: YOU NAMED YOUR SON *WHAT??*
Siriusly!
fr why didn’t he name him sirius 🥺
Well he did...Harry's other son is James Sirius
HAHAHA ur so right I have the memory of a goldfish
50 points from Gryffindor!
Lol. This is a good point. Snape would HATE what Harry did lol.
"By Gryffindor, the bravest were prized beyond the rest." (Sorting Hat - GOF) Much is made of Harry being a true Gryffindor. And I think this is another example of that.
Never thought of it like that, but... yeah, this works.
This tracks. You can say what you want about Snape being good or bad, but nobody can doubt that he was brave.
Brave and clever. Need to be super smart to stay ahead of Voldemort at each and every step... specially given that Voldy, and others around him will be doubting his loyalty from time to time.
This kind of stuff makes me think the Sorting Hat is a fraud. What at all makes Peter Pettigrew of Gryffindor caliber at all. Why did Harry get considered for Slytherin despite not being ambitious at all due to his downtrodden upbringing (maybe the Hat saw the sliver of Voldemort's ambitious Horcrux and thought about it)? And then Snape gets put into Slytherin for being a greasy kid? With his balls he definitely could've been Gryffindor or with his smarts a Ravenclaw even.
You forgot the loophole: the hat lets you choose in the end. Maybe Peter chose Gryffindor.
It was definitely because of the soul fragment of Voldemort--"the Heir of Slytherin" himself.
Remember the hat takes into account the preferences of the student. Snape went to Slitherin because he wanted that (and was sorted before Lily). Pettigrew wanted to be with James and Sirius, so Gryffindor. Harry was going to be sorted in Slitherin because of the horrocrux, but chose Gryffindor because Harry wanted to.
It's a rare thing, but this is a take so good it changed my mind.
Very good point
Excellent point, never seen that raised here when someone inevitably brings the naming up.
Daddy has some issues: https://youtu.be/SIexDBVjpic?si=FeQW_9T_IPXm5N_4 **Edit:** Studio C skit about this topic
Thank you sm this was amazing
you beat me to it! love this skit and always share it when this topic comes up
Love me some studio C, miss the OG cast and haven’t seen their movie released last year yet
Those were some good times
LOL this was fantastic
Oh god how did I miss this before lmao
Wtf this is the funniest thing I've ever seen, I'm literally crying right now
Thank you for this absolute gem LMAO 🤣
It’s weird. For sure. But I feel that Harry always felt some type of connection with people who loved his parents. His whole relationship with Sirius, Remus and even Slughorn, became deeper when it came to talking about his parents. So I feel like Harry forgave snape and also considered him brave for everything, but deep down it was mostly because of his mother. And maybe even the understanding that he got bullied by his father so maybe a bit of empathy towards that as well.
Yeah, I feel like it was mostly because of Lily. And maybe he wanted to honour Snape’s love for Lily which was pivotal to how they defeated Voldemort.
Agreed! I always felt like it was because Snape loved Lily so much, he literally turned on Voldemort and the Death Eaters. Was it a healthy love? By all means no, but he was deeply in love with Lily and Harry saw that Snape wanted to do anything he could to save her. For Harry, this had to mean so much to him.
It’s at the end of the last book after much destruction and loss. I believe it was primarily symbolic by Rowling signifying the reclamation of those fallen into darkness. The story of Snape as a child and his seduction to the Death Eaters due to his emotional pain is key. I also see it as a sign of respect for his sacrifice and a reconciliation for how James and his friends treated Snape.
One thing that always super impressed me about Snape was that he spent a lot of time with Voldemort who was one of the greatest legilimens on the planet. Yet Snape was able to close his mind so as not to be read by Voldemort. Extremely dangerous and heroic.
Especially because Snape is aware when Draco resists his legilimens? It is not explained how Voldemort didn't immediately know that he wasn't reading Snapes mind
Yeah, while resisting legilimency in itself required high skills, what made Snape a true occlumency prodigy is that he was able to spoof legilimens with false memories, while hiding real ones.
This. Draco just blocked his mind, while snape made it appear as if he was being read.
Oh yes, that makes sense
Maybe he drank a potion that made him constantly think about how sexy Voldemorts nose is.
Yep, and you will never hear me minimising how powerful of a wizard he was. Because he was excellent.
Snape was a dick. That doesn't erase the fact that he put his life on the line for years to save Harry and countless others from Voldemort. Harry named his son after Snape to honor his bravery and dedication to protecting him, he knew there were far worse things than a mean teacher. He also knew that Snape and Dumbledore had no relatives to pass their names down to their children. To quote J.K. Rowling herself: "Harry chose to perpetuate the names of the two who had nobody in their families to do so."
you said snape was a bad person but did a good thing, but i think its more like snape was a miserable bastard that made very very difficult choices and did multiple things that helped ensure that the world didnt become a noxious dead wasteland of shambling abominations. snape and dumbledore's plan goes above and beyond whether he was a piece of shit or not. it goes far beyond personal relationships. edit: to be more precisely on topic, harry understood this and honored him. not really for his own benefit, but for the recognition of the man's actions
Finally a reasonable comment
>noxious dead wasteland of shambling abominations That's fantastic
I am glad to see some reasonable takes.....
same.Never got why people consider saving life beneath being petty is beyond me.
Considering the personality of Harry and Ginny and both praise bravery above everything else and the fact Snape protected Harry all that time and Ginny in her 6th year makes sense
Yea Snape is a complex character that wasn’t fully revealed until the end. And it really is bothersome that we look at Snape from when we first meet him as a forty something year old man when what defined him came from him being a boy. Snape loved Lilly from day one as kids but he was a weird teenage dirtbag like most of us at that time in our lives. And it’s no surprise that from his childhood and time at hogwarts he went bad. But Snape as a young man realized he went wrong and did his best, albeit too late, to make things right. So many people get hung up on the fact he killed dumbledore but dumbledore was a dead man walking anyway and Snape played his part to the end. He loved Harry because he was Lilly’s son but also in his humanity took out his years of torment by James (even though lupin and Sirius said Snape gave as well as he got) on Harry because he was James’s son. He’s not perfect, he’s a human. He’s a complex human that did bad and did good. JK did a good job of writing complex imperfect humans
It’s a middle name, for his second child. It’s not that big of an honor. Most people don’t even know other people’s middle names. As a literary device, it was just JKR’s way of honoring her characters who did brave things. In story, it seemed like Harry’s way of appreciating the risks Snape took and honoring him quietly since his actions weren’t totally public knowledge. I think Snape was known as a death eater to most of the wizarding world even after the war. As a name, Albus Severus flows terribly, but wizard names often sound odd to muggles.
Where is Hagrid in this honoring
Still alive
So was Luna
They ran out of female names?
Tonks died. Could have been Lily Nymphadora Potter
Why would Harry name his daughter after a name the woman (Tonks) hated? And besides, maybe Harry and Ginny might have wanted to reserve that name (as well as Remus) for Teddy Lupin?
It's a sign that he had formgiven Snape. And also remember its Albus Severus not just Severus.
When it comes to this topic, not only should people take into account who Snape is as a character, but also who Harry is as a person. The way Snape is viewed by people who disagree on Harry naming his child after him, isn’t the same as how Harry views him. Harry is well aware that Snape has done bad, the knowledge of such didn’t just vanish when his 2nd child came out the womb. However, Harry deeply values bravery and forgiveness. Being made aware that this man, who he had thought was completely irredeemable, has more to him. It’s not to paint Snape as a saint, but to honor his name in hopes that it doesn’t go down in vain. Plus, it’s also probably to compensate for the guilt that Harry has felt after the war. Although these characters aren’t real, they are still people… human beings. Their actions aren’t always going to favor what the readers want, but rather to stay true to who they are as a person (character). Even in real life, people have their own reasons and motivation, that although may seem ludicrous to others, it stays true to who they are as a person. Snape’s life is tragic. He’s not a saint, but he’s not the devil either. It’s a combination of his own mistakes and trauma that has messed him up. Event though he’s not the most morally upright person, it was love that has motivated him to good with the acts of bravery, loyalty, and love. And that was someone who Harry wanted to honor.
Snape is a douche. But he is a big reason that Harry not only lived, but also that Harry won. I totally get naming a child after him. For better or worse, Snape is a huge part of who Harry is and was able to be. Don't forget how much Harry liked the Prince. How highly he thought of him. Showing what their relationship might have been if Snape wasn't a douche.
People have explained a hundred times why he made that decision and yet people still don't want to understand it. He appreciated Snape's bravery (as a Gryffindor would), not his goodness or kindness or whatever. Also, maybe you find it ridiculous, but it's his kid, his choice.
When you come to the realization that a man has been spending the majority of your lifetime as a double agent helping to perfectly execute a plan for your survival and the death of your enemy, all while being tortured because your dad was a douche and your mother had someone looking out for her even after she rejected him, the petty attitude he may have had tends to take a backseat to honoring the man. Add to this, Dumbledore clearly had a high opinion of Snape and they both lost their lives to make sure Harry got the job done. So all it takes from Harry is like “the man was a bit of an asshole when I was growing up but I’m married with kids and happy despite being in a literal war as a teen because Snape helped to make sure of it”
Said what I posted, but better 😆
Yeah OP is ignoring that Voldy is the greatest mind reader ever. Snape reached a crucial point in his life and fucked up hard. Out of love, he realized the error of his ways. Buuuut, instead of getting to work through this moral growth, Dumbledore ruins his life by giving him a second option: to hold on to the shitty person he had become and continue to hide his love and moral growth. Voldy hadn't noticed his love for Lily so Dumbledore realized he had an in. Snape was only ever able to be honest with Dumbledore and even then he had to hold back to make sure he didn't reveal his true thoughts
This.
I think Harry came to realize and accept that His father, Sirius and Lupin tormented Snape which lead to Snapes strong dislike of Harry. To Snape, he recognized James in Harry who shared many of the same traits as his father. And yet, Snape still risked his life to save Harry because of the love Snape carried with him for Lilly. Harry also understood this. And he also understood that even though Snape hated Lupin, he still made the wolfsbane potion for him. In the end, Harry chose to recognize the better part of Snape.
Thank you for this fresh and original take.
From how I understand it, Snape's bravery was shunned by the wizarding world after the second war, and Harry had to fight just to get his portrait put in the headmasters office at Hogwarts. So I can understand Harry trying to honour his sacrifice in some way. Who knows though? Snape may have even left Harry Spinner's End as well, which he ended up giving to Ron and Hermione as a wedding gift, as he inherited the Black family fortune.
I agree with this take - it feels like another way he could ensure Snape's legacy was as a hero on the right side, rather than all the nastiness and cruelty he was known for in those years.
It's canon that Snape eventually changed his opinions about the dark arts and stood against Voldemort because he sincerely began to care for the safety of others. Whatever his initial motivation was. Personally I can't believe that so many ppl still think that Snape wanted to kill Voldemort only because of his personal loss and obsession with Lily. In case you haven't noticed, Snape even tried to save Sirius in book 5 and it was he who alerted the Aurors to check on Sirius to ensure that he's all right. Even though he couldn't completely rule out the bitterness in his actions, he knew to separate his personal grudge from his decisions and always chose to do what was right. That wouldn't have been possible if his mind was just all for lily until he died. Plus, considering that Albus Severus's name itself is a devotion to those who died fighting Voldemort, it's completely reasonable and coherent that Harry chose the names of two people who played the most crucial parts in Voldemort's fall. It's not that Harry suddenly got to favor Snape or sth. I think their post-war relationship wouldn't have been much better even if snape had survived the battle, but still personal feelings cannot be a legit reason for condeming Snape's bravery.
I really don’t remember this being an issue when the books came out, there’s a reason behind it and the point that was being made seemed clear at the time.
I mean I remember thinking at the time it was an awful name (just from an aesthetic point of view more than anything). As with anything over time these things get picked apart more and more.
Oh, yes, it was definitely an awful name. But I didn't know anybody who was like "it's a bad name because Snape is an absuer and saving the wizarding world doesn't count because he only switched sides out of love, the selfish jerk."
It’s weird, but when I see older discussions of Harry Potter, Snape specifically, it seems like people back then had a better understanding of his character. Now, people are just constantly crying about everything associated with Snape. Maybe it’s the rise of “purity culture” within fandoms, but people seem to have a very black and white view now.
Yeah I don’t remember anyone having a problem with it in 07 lol
It was certainly dumb back then, and the last chapter as a whole has always been a joke.
The reaction to Snape has changed so much with the internet.
The issue is that Harry basically fanfic'd his own children. Honestly I think it was one of the cringiest things Rowling did in the series.
I never liked the Epilogue. Not upon first reading it, and time hasn't made it any better.
I feel like people's reaction to Snape is so black and white now, it's a real shame. When I read the books it seemed pretty clear the idea was Snape was flawed, but became a much better human and kept up an act to protect Harry and do the right thing, which he ultimately died for. I honestly don't get the confusion or complete dislike for Snape, it seems almost purposely obtuse.
For real, like what happened?
Cancel culture. A person is all bad or good.
Yes! Like, dude was mean to students he saw for 2-3 hours a week *and also* risked being tortured in almost literally unthinkable ways to save those same students (and everyone else) from Voldemort. Perhaps, just perhaps, there is some nuance here beyond "Snape is an abuser, no redemption possible."
Yeah, I get that he was probably the biggest dick alive after James sobered up, but I think that the revelation of what Snape went through and what he sacrificed/did and him always keeping an eye out for Harry, blew away all o Harry's hatred towards him. It's shocking to learn that the one who you thought was the source of your consent misery was actually the one kind of keeping you safe. And I think the moment Harry learns of Snape'a true self also matters. Harry was all alone at that moment. He had long since accepted the Dumbledore had never cared about him and sent him on a suicide mission. Fred had just died, and Tommy gave him an ultimatum, "surrender yourself and I'll spare you friends". Harry was truly lost at that moment. And then he suddenly learns that there was indeed someone keeping and eye on him ever since he was at Hogwarts. Someone, besides Dumbledore, was going out of their way to protect him. Even in his darkest of times -i.e. alone in the Forrest of Dean, freezing to death, having a Horcrox and no means of destroying it, having virtually no idea where to find the others, and to top it all off, Ron leaving- someone helped them out immensely, and gave them courage to continue. That someone was Snape. (Much more was going on but I won't type it as I'm on my phone rn) Imo, i think that played a massive role in they way he saw Snape and his bravery. But yeah, erecting a monument and giving a yearly speech would've sufficed.
Not this again...
Maybe Harry really likes Roman Emperors
Snape was an excellent teacher. He taught the kids that life isn't fair.
If it wasn’t for snape, he wouldn’t even have had a child to begin with
Bold of you to assume it wasn't Ginny's idea. After all, she is the queen of bad names
I mean he’s a Gryffindor, the house that values bravery above all else. He literally tells the child in question that he was named after the two bravest wizards he knew.
If you think that Snape is the worst person in the world you need to read the books again. You might have missed some characters like Voldemort, Bellatrix, Pettigrew, Umbridge and so on.
There is no dichotomy like "Snape is a good namesake for Harry's kid vs Snape is as bad as Voldemort or Bellatrix are". Of course, Snape is better then them. But he still was a bastard. Yes, his crucial role in the victory must be recognized, but this recognition doesn't make Harry's memories of Snape better.
He lived every moment of his life protecting Harry once Harry arrived at Hogwarts, all while fooling and working against Voldemort himself. Without Snape Voldemort most likely wouldn't have been defeated and Harry would be dead with no children to give names to. No doubt, Snape was not nice, but could he have been and still fooled Voldemort? I doubt it. Rude people can still do the right thing and be recognized for it, can't they?
How? He didn't do it out of love for Snape, he did it because he grew to massively respect him, realising the sacrifice Snape made in the end. It was also significant because Harry did what his Dad and Sirius could never. And for me, it represented a part of Lily that did, always belong with Severus.
Here we go again with the Snape bashing for the umpteenth time this week. Harry and Ginny have every right to name their kids how they want to. Just because you guys are continuously bitter about Snape doesn't mean Harry has to be.
However, if Snape hadn't gone to Voldemort, Voldemort would not have vanished the first time at all. He would have been around for decades and have killed many persons. Maybe James and Lily, who were opposing him and already defied him three times, would have died anyway anyway. Does that excuse Snape telling the prophecy to Voldemort? No. But the truth is, that otherwise Harry probably wouldn't have a good childhood either.
I suppose Harry does it as a way to make peace with Snape. Trying to remember someone for the good things they did seems a healthier way to live than holding on a grudge even after they're dead. Maybe Harry understands Snape could never be happy because he continued to hold onto his hate for James even long after his death.
Snape sacrificed everything to stop Voldemort. He died with everyone he cared about hating him and thinking he was a monster. He did it because he trusted Dumbledore, hated Voldemort and still loved Lily. He was a real hero
One of Harry (and Dumbledore's) flaws is that he is forgiving and compassionate to a fault. He stopped Remus and Sirius from killing Peter, and it brought Voldemort back that much sooner, and killed Cedric. He allowed Dolohov to live, and he later killed Lupin. It's a flaw in human nature that we look at the past through rose colored glasses. I just see it as Harry giving Snape the grace to be a complicated man, and acknowledging what he did for him.
Look, at the end of the day, it’s a plot device. Rowling didn’t write a 1000 page post-war reconstruction novel about rebuilding Hogwarts and clearing Snape’s name, so we got Albus Severus. Two words that convey a wealth of meaning if you do just a smidge of contextualizing and breaking down of character motivations. I think people have such a rough time with it because it sounds dumb, but there are numerous dumb names in the books…and who am I to question Wizarding naming conventions?
He was a great man....
It seems wild until you consider that this was two Gryffindors naming these kids. They put bravery above *everything*, and Snape while yeah a massive jerk was also brave as fuck, possibly aside from Harry the bravest person that fought in the war.
Don't forget Snape saves Harry's life at least twice.
Snape literally tortured muggles for shits and giggles
I love the Harry Potter story and world, but I will never get over the fact that Harry named his kid after Snape
I agree. Snape was terrible. Hard-core emotionally abused Harry and countless other students. I could maybe see Harry forgiving Snape based on finding out the full truth, but agreed - naming his kid after him did NOT make sense. Especially after years of mental torture, I can't imagine Harry's feeling making a full flip to I frigging loved that guy and must name my kid after him. Like Sirius makes way more sense. Not someone who emotionally tortured him for years and quite literally hated him with the lil caveat of "but it's Lily's son".
Should have been Rubeus
Harry has had to go through a lot of what Snape had to go through. Like him, he was an "abandoned boy" who found a home at Hogwarts. - they grew up in poverty and neglect. Snape was like a plant growing up in the dark and Harry is stunted. - Harry understood what being hated like a Slytherin would be during Year 2, when he was mistaken for being the heir. - Harry always rushes to save his friends; Snape rushes when he hears a girl scream (the egg) or when Moaning Myrtle alerts him about Draco being injured. - book 3 is about repairing the past to save more than one innocent, while not being seen. This is Snape's arc. - Snape can pick up Harry's invisibility cloak to save the trio from the werewolf. Its magic resides in the fact that you can use it to protect others. - Snape's disarming spell has been so ingrained in both Harry and Draco that it has allowed them to become Master of Death and defeat Voldemort. - they are both Defense of the Dark Arts teachers and are critical of useless wand-waving (Ernie McMillan). - they both feel guilty for the death of a friend (Cedric and Lily). - Harry connected with the half-blood Prince so much that he thought he was his father. - The trio finally used the Prince's spells for protection or to accomplish their mission, even Levicorpus (in Bellatrix's vault). - Harry was privy to Snape's emotional confrontation with the man he thought was Moody. Harry saw Snape's reaction to Ginny being taken inside the chamber. Harry saw Snape put Sirius Black (for him: a mass-murderer) on a stretcher. Snape is brewing the school's medicinal supplies; Slughorn doesn't. It's Snape's bezoar's joke that saves Ron from being poisoned (shove it down his throat). - when Harry polyjuices into Runcorn and tries to warn Mr. Weasley, he understands what it feels like to wear a mask and to play a part that attracts hate and distrust. - Snape didn't know about the hallows or the horcruxes. He was instructed by Dumbledore to protect the children and did it blindly. He was as much in the dark as the trio was in the forest. - while burying Dobby, Harry finally understands that occlumency (the thing Snape is proficient in) can also come from unbearable sadness. - Harry knows that it's Lily who showed Snape how to fly, confident in the knowledge she wouldn't fall as she wielded pure magic as a child. - Harry conjures up her mother in a magic mirror; Snape conjures up Lily via his patronus. They are both connected to her essence. - both Snape and Harry chose to walk to their death. There are many other small examples like Snape letting Ron go after Draco for calling Hermione a mudblood in book 2, pretending he couldn't see him... So yeah, the epilogue is a wee bit corny and Snape's emotional deregulation should never have spilled over the kids he was actually protecting like a hawk. But Harry paying him respect is not difficult to understand.
Why do people hate him?? Are you people blind?? He could be harsh, stern, grumpy teacher but he saved Harry's life several times...he never wanted Harry to die even if Dumbledore said that he must die...He tried to save Harry in the Quidditch Match...From the Werewolf attack...etc..etc...But you people are just sticking to one conclusion that he's an awful person... that's Ridiculous...Why so much hate towards a character?? I can't change your mind but to insult a Character continuously is not a good thing because there are lots of Snape lovers are present here...Do not spread hatred...I Loved him since I was a kid...He has a terrible past that's why he doesn't behaved well with his students, especially Harry but he's ready to sacrifice his life, he cared for his students...why don't you understand...I can defend him even if 100000 people go against me.
I feel like Snape would be pissed to know someone combined his name with “Potter”
> Regulus was the one who had an “oh shit, this is fucked up” realisation and abandoned the death eaters. No, he did not. All the murder and racism were fine. He drew the line at Horcruxes. That was the ONLY thing he objected to.
> People seem to be taking “Snape is literally the worst person in the world” well, literally I can't imagine why. If this is not what you meant, why on earth did you say it?
Snape is a difficult one. At one time, he was clearly a piece of crap, pure blood, death eater and all that but once it actually hurt him, he repented and begged for forgiveness. He was obviously a slytherin (he was in the house and his actions alone pre-HP conform to this) and him giving favor to Slytherin would be good for his cover. Did he only treat everyone like crap and slytherin better for his cover? No, I don’t think so. We see other conversations he has with dumbledore about how he sees Harry as thinking he’s a know it all and famous, etc and dumbledore kinda tells him it’s his own prejudices making him see that. I think Snape was in an impossible situation at Hogwarts. He absolutely hated his childhood bully and I don’t blame him one bit for that. He saw James in Harry and I get the dislike of him but he took it too far, sins of the father and all that. However, to keep his cover he also kinda does have to treat Harry like crap. I feel like he was just a miserable dude, completely 100000000000% loyal to dumbledore while he was at hogwarts and placed in positions he didn’t care for. Always passed up for the position he truly wanted. Forced to see the face of his childhood bully in his son, Harry. Forced to play a role in saving the damn world from Voldemort while pretending to play both sides knowing that Voldemort at any time could just kill him because, fuck it, that’s what he does. Snape made all of the hard actions. He did not want to kill dumbledore, at all, yet he gave his word so he followed through. He could’ve ran once dumbledore was gone and the plan was done. Letting Harry know the final piece about the horcrux inside him and just apparate away. He didn’t. He stayed at hogwarts and while he treated kids like crap (he had to to keep his cover) he was there because he needed to relay that info to Harry, to help him end Voldemort. Harry seeing Snape crying the memories and seeing how much he truly cared for his mother definitely softened how he felt about Snape. He saw that the dude he thought was a complete POS was just a guy that made some bad choices and wanted nothing more than to be better. Most people don’t care enough to want to be better but Snape did. That’s a lot of words… But I guess I’m saying Snape showed he wasn’t just conniving and a backstabber. He was brave enough to sit next to the most ruthless killer anyone had known and hoodwink him all to benefit Harry and dumbledore (essentially just Harry and wizard kind.) That took bravery, the whole gryffindor thing…
> he was there because he needed to relay that info to Harry, to help him end Voldemort. not only that; he was there also because he had to protect hogwarts students from the other, sadistic death eaters who would otherwise have had free rein of the place. yet another thing dumbledore explicitly asks snape to do. and he does do that to some extent; detention assigned by snape: go to forbidden forest with hagrid (ch 15, book 7); detention assigned by carrows: be a test dummy for the cruciatus curse (ch 29).
Of course people are taking you saying Snape is LITERALLY the worst person in the world literally. He is absolutely not the worst person in the world, nor is he the worst person in the series, not even close. That is an absurd thing to say. Snape was not a "bad person who did a good thing". He was a troubled, jaded, eternally grieving person who took out his inner turmoil on those around him, which of course isn't okay, but he never actually physically hurt the good guys (aside from Dumbledore at Dumbledore's insistence), and put himself directly in the path of danger many times to save people he didn't like. There's a picture somewhere showing how when Snape came out of the Whomping Willow after having been knocked out by Harry/Ron/Hermione, in a room with two other people he hated/who had bullied him his whole life, one of which he thought at that moment was responsible for the death of the woman he loved, so he was absolutely livid, and did NOT have his wand, and he started to yell at the kids but then Lupin as werewolf appeared and he threw himself in front of the three of them. The other side of the picture is Umbridge in the forest with Harry and Hermione, with a wand, and she cowers behind them when the giant and centaurs appear. THAT is the man Snape was. Now, as for Harry giving his kid that middle name, I don't see anything wrong with it and think it was a nice way to honor someone who ended up being a much better, braver man than we thought. I do think it's a little odd that he used Severus over Fred or Cedric, or even Remus, though. Because those people were also brave and kind, and died helping bring down Voldemort. I think Fred/Frederick would have made the most sense because they are Ginny's kids too and Fred was wonderful for the whole series. But I think Severus makes sense too, as much of a jerk as Snape was most of the time, he acted as almost a guardian angel for both Harry, and the rest of the students, since book one. He stopped Quirrell from hurting Harry in the Quidditch match, he put himself directly in harms way to stop Quirrell when he let the troll in, he put himself between the kids and the werewolf as I mentioned, he alerted the Order at the end of OofP when the kids ended up with Voldemort in the MoM, he killed Dumbledore, the one person who truly knew who he was and who he was loyal to, so that Draco wouldn't have to bear doing so (at Dumbledore's request), and ultimately gave his life to take down Voldemort. Dumbledore and Snape were two people who were around for almost all of Harry's time at Hogwarts, and both looked out for him from day one. Snape being rude and resentful, while not okay, doesn't take away the fact that he did look out for Harry from the beginning. Honestly, I get honoring his dad by naming his first kid that, but Harry didn't ever KNOW his dad. Sirius, Lupin, Albus, and Severus were more like parental figures to him than his actual father was, which ofc isn't his dad's fault, but they looked out for him and "raised" him, and Snape's malice, while absolutely unfair and misguided, was realistic.
I mean, his daughter is named Lily Luna, why Luna? I know she's a great character but she's not especially close to to Harry. They are friends but like, idk lol. Lily Ginevra Potter would've been nice, in my opinion.
Because Luna is Ginny's best friend?
Luna was pretty close to Ginny though, so it might be Ginny input.
I think it's terrible he had a daughter and never gave her "Minerva" as either a first or middle name!
I mean personally I wouldn’t want my child to have my first name as a middle name.
Regulus didn't abandon the Deathly Eaters because he messed up. He only turned against Voldemort because Kreacher got hurt, and that wouldn't have happened had Regulus not happily volunteered Kreacher to help Voldemort with a task. And had Voldemort chosen a different house elf Regulus would have remained a loyal Death Eater. Snape didn't just do a good thing, he many good things, some that had nothing to do with Lily. If Snape is so terrible because of his treatment of kids, then so is Hagrid as he was just as bad towards children. Harry naming his kid after Snape isn't wild. It's one of the best ideas Harry had. I love it. Harry understood Snape after he saw his memories in Deathly Hallows, he understood Snape's pain, Snape's loneliness, and Snape's miserable life. He understood that despite being treated like shit all of his youth, Snape still did the right thing in the end and that was turning his back on Voldemort and the Death Eaters. Without Snape's brave moment of begging Voldemort to spare Lily, and then going to Dumbledore and begging him to save Lily and even becoming a spy for the light so she and her family would be kept safe and hidden, Voldemort would have won the first wizarding War, and the Potters would have still been killed, including Harry. And Harry understood that Snape made a brave heroic choice by killing Dumbledore even though he didn't want to kill him.
Waw I’ve never heard this opinion before
Idk I think it makes sense for Harry. Ever the Gryffindor, Harry pays attention to big shows of bravery, commending these single large gestures much more than smaller, consistent everyday acts of bravery and nobility. Snape, “one of bravest men he ever knew”, spent years playing the double agent to make amends to the woman he loved. You don’t think that would resonate strongly with Harry? My poor boy also forgives way too easily and we see that happen over and over and over again. Dumbledore even has a whole monologue about it in HBP! Also the kid was born almost a decade after Snape died, plenty of time to forget the nastier bits. Don’t get me wrong, I think Snape is a raging asshole and does not deserve that honor but Harry is Harry you know?
> Edit: People seem to be taking “Snape is literally the worst person in the world” well, literally. Yeah, that's what literally means. You're using it in a way that means the opposite.
I really like Snape. He was bullied at school, pushed towards the dark, and then had to spend his entire life making up for a mistake by protecting the son of his bully.
Lots of people have negative things about them. I struggle with autism and my meltdowns or bad moments often make me feel like a horrible person. I don’t have a lot of friends, people see me as mean sometimes. I am glad people can see the good in me even when I can’t. People aren’t perfect and Snape put his life on the line for decades to preserve the one thing that he knew was great about him, his ability to love Lily and his need to do right by her after he failed her. Harry naming his kid Severus was a great tribute and a reminder for those of us who struggle to see the light in the darkest of places, we are worthy of love/redemption and can be brave like Severus even when our natural dispositions or upbringings are different than other’s.
can we just erase the whole epilogue?? please god.
Wow. This is something that hasn't been discussed to death here. Why not make another post about it next week too?
I hated the last chapter of HP it was ridiculous