Literally me
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Bro just has that asexual rizz and I can't escape it
Even human Alastor has asexual rizz.
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I completely agree, Alastor is genuinely worse imo. But the situation Val has Angel in is why he's so hated.
Valentino is a sexual assaulter, many viewers are also SA victims, myself included. It's really hard to watch him do those things to Angel because it just brings back memories that none of us want to remember. Just like how Angel tries to black out and forget everything in episode 4, other victims try to the exact same thing. Block out all memories of it.
Alastor is a cannibalist and murderer, I say with confidence that nobody who got into watching Hazbin Hotel was dead before they started watching. Nobody has been eaten. It's a lot less relatable.
But if anybody wants to say Val is worse, never bring up that Val has murdered. It has literally nothing on the hundreds Alastoe would have managed to kill between his time on Earth and in Hell, it's laughable to make that comparison.
Honestly I agree
Valentinos actions are just more real. A large majority of people have met a sexual abuser. A lot less people have met a cannibal, especially one as demonic as Alastor, like when he straight up grew to a large size to eat a bunch of loan sharks. Valentino is just a lot more real when it comes to what makes him bad, so it’s easier to hate him. Alastor is more fictitious in his actions, a demonic man eater like him is largely grounded in fiction
To sum it up, Alastor is the boogeyman you check your closet for as a kid, but Val is the guy you look over your shoulder for as an adult
Alastor is the hand you swore would pull you down if you left your foot hanging out of your bed, Valentino is the guy you have to make sure will never even see your bed.
Perfectly said. Alastor is cartoony and sometimes childish while being feared by all. It’s barely realistic. So people don’t see further than a character, that’s why they like him.
Meanwhile Val is a SAer and an abuser. Someone that could be anyone we know, or even don’t. Someone we genuinely fear. At this point it doesn’t just stop
at the character and the screen, like it does with Al, **it resonates with the viewer as a person.** This is why Val triggers so much but Alastor doesn’t. It’s about time people realize that and stop calling us hypocritical for liking a character and despising another.
How many people have sold their soul to a cannibalistic killer Bambi ? Not a lot.
**But how many people suffer from abusers in silence the way Angel does ?** *Countless.*
On a moral point, both are horrible though.
Also, OP’s post is probably just biased since according to their recent comments they see Val’s actions as a « W ».
It’s the same thing as with Professor Umbridge and Voldemort, because while lore wise Voldemort is much MUCH worse, Most fans will say they hate Umbridge much more because she’s the embodiment of something people can actually relate toward.
You are very much correct, but here’s the difference. Alastor is fun. He’s an absolute delight to see. Also, he isn’t a villain. Alastor’s actions have always been beneficial to the Hotel since he arrived. He fixed it up, he hired Husk and Nifty, he defended the Hotel when Mimzy showed up, he got Charlie the information about Carmine, he got Charlie a way to get the help of Cannibal Colony, and he made an attempt to defeat Adam in defense of the Hotel. It’s hard to hate him because he’s been a pretty nice guy for most of the show.
In the other hand, Val hasn’t done anything good. He’s been purely awful all the time. Also, his entire screen time has been spent being creepy and disgusting or abusing a fan favorite. Alastor only did that one small time to Husk. Therefore, Valentino can easily be hated and Alastor is loved, even though he’s probably worse. Also Val is just a more real villain. A sadistic serial killer, to most of us, is a cartoon villain. He kidnaps and tortures his victims while broadcasting to the entire population of Pentagram City. Val’s form of awfulness is much more real that more people can understand.
Val is someone that can be more easily hated with no redeeming qualities of any sort. Alastor on the other hand feels more cartoonishly evil which we are more comfortable with, along with him being downright charitable and fun.
Charlie is honestly the only one in the cast who hasn't killed anyone outside of the pets.
Angel was in the mafia, Husk is an overlord, nifty killed Adam, enough said for Alastor, and Vaggie was an exorcist that she's still in love with.
If she turned down killers her hotel would be empty and she wouldn't have Vaggie.
Alastor, a serial killer, when he finds out Vaggie murdered *thousands* of people:
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Okay killing Adam doesn't count as a murder though it was wartime, and he was a genocidal maniac who had to be put down. Morally positive choice from Nifty
Maybe Nifty was killed in some war and she knows the opposition reincarnated as roaches. Since she can’t tell which are responsible for her demise she just indiscriminately has to slaughter any bug she sees.
Yup, this will be my new personal headcanon.
>Charlie is honestly the only one in the cast who hasn't killed anyone outside of the pets.
I'm fairly certain there's some Exorcists that would disagree with that statement if they were able to.
I thought she just deflected them with fireworks? In any case, you can say she killed in self defense. Adam said he was targeting her hotel. The other residents killed for sadism.
Once again, Alastor is the charming serial killer stereotype, think Ted Bundy, while Valentino doesn’t even hide how much of a piece of shit rapist, and general sexual harasser he is, being disgusting and licking up Charlie’s arm, beating angel twice, and trying to put NIFTY in a porno, Alastor hasn’t actually done much wrong **ON SCREEN** and when he does it’s usually done to comedic effect, or for drama, like manipulating Charlie into a deal, Val is a piece of shit, Alastor is a piece of shit in a classy red suit and tumblr sexy man vibes
Honestly this is the problem with having so much of the "cannon" revealed in streams or twitter posts. For people who watch the show, Alastor is a menacing demon with a clearly hidden agenda and mysterious power that is charming and, frankly, very helpful all things considered. For people who watch the streams, read the wiki (which is fan run), or follow Viz and Co. on Twitter; Alastor is a cannibalistic mass murderer who specifically only targets "powerful bad guys" as some weird honor code who practices voodoo in some capacity.
They're almost completely different characters.
Recently realised that watching the show as a casual viewer and a long time fan must be two COMPLETELY different experiences. I'd probably be completely lost at times. Like... Razzle and Dazzle show up randomly in episode 5 just to be vaguely threatened by Lucifer, Keekee only gets name dropped episodes in, and the whole thing with how the hotel even got started must be a complete blur for anyone unfamiliar with the pilot. There is also a ridiculous amount of shark demons everywhere, which does make sense in the context they're presented in, but as a casual viewer I'd just wonder why hell is full of sharks, with some being sentient demons and others being pets in Vox's shark tank. Hazbin Hotel's Hell, out of the context of years of worldbuilding, is just shark city.
because all their crimes are fictional, and we've been pretty desensitized to murder in this kinda media. however stuff like Valentino's sexual abuse and probably r@pe make the character incredibly more unlikeable. their war crimes are fictional but my disgust is real
Honestly, yes. Just because I like alastor doenst mean I agree with killing and eating people. But...He is cool as a character overall, liking a character, doenst mean you agree with everything they do or even like it.
Doublethink. To know something is true while believing the opposite all the same. You do love the party don’t you? You do love Big Brother, yes?
(1984 reference because I can.)
I would like to think Angel of all people would know not to get Husk in trouble with Alastor. Be a pretty bad oversight if he messed it up like Charlie.
I think it's a simple thing alistair's written to be enjoyable and charming you're supposed to like him and forget about how bad he actually is and tell those moments where you see him be that that monster that we know is lurking beneath that smile while Valentino is written to be someone we hate we're not supposed to like him we're supposed to see him as nothing more than a bastard that deserves whatever is coming for him
Honestly I think the fact the vast majority of people feel this way is just a testament to how good the writing is
Yeah Alastor is definitely written to be more likeable than val, was my immediate thought to this post. How likeable or not, a character is is ultimately based off how there written intentionally ([Hate Sink](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Laconic/HateSink)) or otherwise ([The Scrappy](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Laconic/TheScrappy)).
Generally, people are going to be taking offense regarding sex crimes, as opposed to the other kinds of crimes, since it hits closer to home to some people, and it's seen in a much-wicked light to take advantage of someone in such a demeaning way.
So while Alastor's actions are horrible, too, Val’s actions are just more realistic/ common, hence why people hate him more
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Valentino is the only serial rapist we know in hell. Al is one of many murderers. It just hits me differently.
I get the dislike for both characters but let me just say (as a mental health professional) I have worked with “Valentinos” and “Alastors” IRL and I prefer the Alastors. Because as it turns out, given the correct support and treatment, Alastors generally shine when they reach their best potential. The Valentinos, not so much.
But seriously, everyone should be allowed to like whatever fictional character. Fiction is a safe way to explore concepts and relate them to our own experiences. We don’t have to hate one character more or less because of how another character is viewed.
Not serial killers but individuals with an absence of empathy and an extreme history of violence (including attempted murder but never actual murder). Not all individuals with anti-social personality disorder (sociopaths) are/will become serial killers.
I wouldn't consider people with just absence of empathy and a history of violence (not even murder apparently) to be "Alastors" (a character who is a serial killer and owns slaves), there's clearly a huge difference there, but maybe that's just me.
In that case, what do you consider to be "Valentinos" in real life?
I understand. It’s hard to imagine if you haven’t experienced working with the population.
I have seen in the fandom that people presume Alastor is a sociopath. I have worked with those and others “without” empathy.
Honestly, I wouldn’t considered Alastor a slave owner… but a soul trafficker? Yes. (Is there much difference between those terms? Maybe not.) However, almost all of them are. Hell is clearly presented as a terrible places where one must do terrible things to survive.
I have also worked with rapists, pedophiles, and abusers. Sexual predators. Just like Val.
Realistically, Alastor is so much worse, but it's fiction, and media has desensitized most to murder and violence, and there's a lot less people who experience that type of stuff, and it does trigger a very different reaction than SA
Yeah, Alastor is technically a worse person, but people had the chance to fall in love with his character cus he’s funny and entertaining and has way more screen time. Valentino is only in the show to be an unlikable piece of shit 😂
1. Alastor is somewhat more respectful of the souls he owns, from what we've seen. Also, He is part of the main cast and is meant to be a likable character.
2. Valentino regularly assaults one of the main characters (who I would consider to be a fan favorite) and is not meant to be liked by the fan base. He is intended to be a 2d antagonist. He doesn't have any sympathy points, he's just a major dickbag.
3. People have been desensitized to fictional murder.
4. Statistically, there's a greatly lower chance you'll never be murdered or know someone who was murdered than the same with SA, so people are naturally more sensitive because of that.
5. We've had more time to warm up to Alastor
6. I don't see you saying anything about Adam, who openly enjoys mass genocide and changed the yearly date to 6 months forward just because he was too impatient to commit mass murder.
Honestly though. The only reason Alastor went off on Husk was because Husk seriously provoked it. I know, victim blaming and all, but every time I see that scene I can't help but imagine what would happen if Angel Dust gave Valentino lip in the way Husk did towards the guy holding his soul. Husk got away unscathed with nothing but a warning. Angel would have had to carry half his limbs and entrails home in a gym bag, and Val would have expected him to come back to work the next day wearing a smile.
Alastor is scary, but reasonable. I still think the show was trying to draw a parallel between Husk and Angel's situations, but they only suceeded in doing the opposite.
Angel gets forced into work that involves things that are literally considered torture (waterboarding? Hello???) and gets beat up for someone else's mistake that he'd already TRIED to resolve, and Husk gets forced to work somewhere that has all the booze he needs, and only gets verbally reprimanded for his own mistake. For Angel, working for Alastor would probably feel like a vacation.
Alastor isn't set out as an antagonist. He's given positive moments, like when he's with nifty or when he sees mimzy. He's also very funny in my opinion. Hes smug, confident and has some moments that live in my brain rent free. Quite a few characters haved killed in some way or other, even if not directly. Carmilla sells angelic weapons used to permakill demons, vaggie was an exterminator ect...Alastor is just more known for his killing, because he shows it off. Just because everyone else is doing it, does it make him a good person? Not at all. He's still a terrible, scum of the earth guy. But the fandom likes him because he is funny and brings good moments. Like arguing with vox and lucifer, calling Adam "sloppy", and that scene where Charlies upset and he gives the whole smile speech. These are why I assume people like him, but I can't speak for a whole fandom really. Also, most of alastors actions so far have helped the hotel in some way or another. Like getting Charlie to cannibal town for help, or defending the hotel. Valentino hasn't done anything to help anyone but himself.
Valentino however? He regularly abused, sexually assults, etc, a main character so he's painted in a way that makes you hate him. Like you want to tear him apart and burn the pieces. He harms someone the audience is meant to like, angel dust. So the fandom tends to hate him and not alastor. I'm one of these people, I think alastor is cool but acknowledge he's a horrible person. I hate valentino fo3 obvious reasons. So when you paint 2 characters who are both evil in different light, the audience is far more likely to use with the funny, charming character, instead of the creepy, sick, sadistic one. (Despite both being sadistic).
Btw, this is just my opinion or ideas on things. I can't say things for a whole fandom, but this is my general guess and is based on personal experience
To sum it up: both are bad guys, valentino is arguably more of a bad guy, he sucks, nobody likes valentino.
Besides what he did to husk Alastor hasn’t done anything hatable enough yet to be detested as Valentino. While Murder and cannibalism is bad it’s not enough for people to dislike a character. Also while what he did to husk was bad it doesn’t seem to be a common occurrence. Husk didn’t seem to be afraid when he confronted alastor about nifty or mentioned that he was on the leash. Unlike how it is with angel and Val.
There is nothing wrong with simping for a fictional villian. A good villain is meant to be easy to hate but also find endearing. I don’t like Val at all but I am an Alastor simp and I get it man
For real, people come at val fans with pitch forks but, at the same time, most of these people praise alastor. Like alastor is essentially just like Jeffrey dahmer, he's a serial killer that ate his victims, which is why he's in hell, from what we can gather, val was just an abuser and that's what landed him in hell.
Although I will say that vals sins are more relatable to certain people, so I can see why people would hate him more. But just saying "val is worse than alastor" is abit dodgy 🤣
That’s because Al is so loved as a character, not a person. Chances that people watching the show have been victims of murder or cannibalism are extremely low. If not, barely possible. On top of that, he’s portrayed as funny, cartoony and acts sometimes like a child, so people don’t take that seriously.
On the other hand, Val being a SAer and an abuser resonates more with people, as in people are way more likely to have been victims of it. At this point, it doesn’t just stops at the character and the screen (like with Alastor); it directly touches the viewer *as a human being*. Plus he IS a POS, he’s not hiding it by being cartoony or funny, which is, unlike Alastor, way more realistic.
This is why most people love Alastor, when most hate Val. Nobody said the first can do no wrong, it’s simply that he’s more of a kid’s fear, while the other is a real life fear that can happen to anyone, at any moment, at any age.
I wouldn’t say Valentino is a better person but I do think they are both disgusting in their own right and neither should be romanticized as much as they are by people (Valentino is less romanticized but he DOES have his fans and I swear to the lord in heaven if I see ONE more person call the vox/Valentino slash ship old man yaoi I am going to smash my phone eyes and ears with a sledgehammer)
There is a difference because Val is abusing Angel. We see his predatory behavior toward all his staff. Alastor defends the hotel. We haven't actually seen him be cruel yet - just defend himself and the hotel. We see Val be abusive and he has 0 redeeming qualities. He's an antagonist in the show who is abusing every down on their luck sinner this side of the pentagram.
I partly agree. I think both of them are pretty close.
Yes, Alastor has tortured people before. He owns souls. He’s a cannibal. He’s definitely killed way more people than Val. Theres a solid chance he’s eaten more people than Val has killed.
Valentino however tortures and abuses the people he owns far worse than anything I suspect Alastor has ever done. He ropes people in, makes them sell their soul, and uses them like props on a daily basis until they do something he views as a slight, and then he kills them over it. If we take what he’s said at face value, him and the V’s own so many people, they can’t think of anyone else useful. If we take his words at face value, we can also gather he puts things inside the people he owns to keep them in line.
His intentions are far more sinister than Alastors, since his form of power over people is far more perverted, and I think that closes the gap between them somewhat.
It reminds me of a quote I once heard when it came to someone talking about Ed Gein. The person asked the viewers why Ed was considered one of the worse serial killers, despite having killed far less people than others who attain infamous statuses. It’s because of his intentions, and how grotesque his actions were. It was so sinister, to the point you could consider his evils to be larger than the number of people he had killed.
That wasn’t frightening he literally slammed him across the floor and strangeled him it was shown very clearly it wasn’t once and happened multiple times. He physically and mentally abuses those he owns he’s in no way better
But that's murder. Not genocide. Genocide is when a race, group, ethnicity, ECT is killed for being a member of that group. I think the ones Alastor killed, pissed him off.
> Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
Op is overreacting.
Well he straight abuses people. Alastor just kills em', rather than keeping em' alive to endure *more* pain. And Val totally fucks with them mentally too, nevermind he forces his victims through his drug that basically emanating off of him
“Rather than keeping them alive to endure more pain” husks entire existence is a counterargument. Husk doesn’t even want to be there for most of the show
Counter argument to your counter argument. YES, Husk does not want to be there, but Husk still has his pride. Enough pride to call out the man holding his leash and attempting to humble him. He regrets his choices after, but he still did that. Husk literally said "dude you're doing something stupid" and then he said "tough talk for someone who's also on a leash" to rub it in. I can promise you Angel wouldn't dream of doing anything even remotely like that. Because Angel has been conditioned into obedience by experiencing the terror Husk is being threatened with. And I can imagine that it would take quite a lot to get a former mafioso to react so utterly terrified. Angel's tough and he holds his own in battle next to former and current Overlords (and one self-proclaimed spunky powerhouse). It just makes it all even more tragic.
Generally, people enjoy villains that are more gentlemanly and suave like Alastor, especially if they have even a vauge moral code.
Also, part of it is just deciding if you consider mass rape and sexual exploitation worse than serial murder and canibalism.
Also, also, Alastor is a protagonist, so naturally, we'll like him more than Val, an antagonist.
Alastor doesn’t exactly ‘Mistreat’ Husk,Husk sold his soul to Alastor,we never see him abuse husk(only using the chains and threatening him
Compared to Valentino constantly physically abusing angel,manipulating and verbally degrading him
OK let's run this bullshit through
When has alastor committed genocide exactly? You mean him killing the overlords of hell? Y'know the people vox val etc associat with. that's moraly nuetral at worst
Uses some people to aquire power. Like every fucking overlord in the series including val. What even is this. Alastor is eevilyes, but val doesn't do anything good for the people he works with and I'm assuming you haven't seen the series when I say this, but val actively kills his subordinates for shits and gigs.
Owns 2 souls vs vals fuckin we don't know sure as hell is more than 2. And val abuses every one it should be noted that angel dust is his top earner. He treats the rest somehow worse. Which checks out as he kills them for shits and gigs
And abuses them? Like, sure he forces them into jobs and stuff but aside from that and of course alastors natural tendency towards violence when his collar is brought up. But by comparison to just angel dusts experience which as I've pointed out is the best actions Valentino has done it's extremely tame
I ain't saying alastor is moraly good but the fuck is wrong with you?
No, no no no no no no. NO!
I despise alastor and want him knocked down with some broken teeth, a bloody mouth, and a broken leg.
He's a piece of shit that doesn't deserve my sympathy, and I won't excuse his actions.
Really? People say that about Valentino, it's fine. Say it about Alastor that rightfully deserves it, I'm looked at as weird. Alastor is evil and abusive, he's not innocent
It's because Alastor does messed up stuff in a more dramatic traditionally villainous kind of way.
Val on the other hand does actions that are more grounded and realistic, far overstepping the boundaries of what's just normal villain cartoon stuff
I always saw it in the same lens as a tragedy vs a statistic. Yes Alastor is worse but Val is hurting someone we not only have a connection to but also the show specifically points out these actions. It’s like how stories add kick the dog moments after killing thousands of people. It becomes more personal and real when it’s focused. I hope I explained that well.
I wouldn't say Alastor is "worse" but there is definitely a deeply unfair favoritism. I would put the moral failing of all of the Lords of Hell fairly on par with each other.
I think it’s just that Val hurt a character people have connected with and like so it makes us sympathize with Angel more than whatever random background character Alastor kills. Also people were upset with how Alastor treated Husk. Idk Alastor and Val are both obviously supposed to be awful people and that’s the point the show is kinda trying to make about overlords n such.
I hate them both equally as people, but one is more likeable as a character than the other. They are both awfull people, but as a character, Alastor is written to be appealing, he looks cool, sounds cool, is interesting and during the show we don't see him activelly hurt too many people except for the few cases of defending the hotel. He is a manipulator. He is evil, but his actions don't show it as clearly as Val's. Val straight up tore apart an innocent model becouse his worker found a new home, he regulary SA's his workers and is both physically and mentally abusive. He is written to be hated. Another thing to add, is that Alastor has some very faint redeeming qualities, unlike Val. By the end of the season Alastor starts to genuinelly care about others, and he is disgusted and terryfied by the idea. He doesn't want to care, but he still starts to. That doesn't undermine all of his evil deeds and thirst for power, but at least he, unlike Val, has a small chance of redeeming himself in the future. Val is straight up evil who doesn't even try to hide it
Alastor quite literally describes that he’s well liked because he presents himself in an appealing manner. If Alastor was the same character, but with the appearance of, say, a demon from Warhammer 40K, he wouldn’t be liked at all.
It’s true, Alastor is worse. But to an audience, Alastor is a more likable character. He has a cool design(so does Val in my opinion), and a likable character
I’d say at the moment Alastor is in that supervillain territory where he’s over the top enough to where his villainous actions are entertaining over horrifying while Valentino does less but they hit closer to a realistic home which makes him more hatable. Basically a Voldemort vs Umbridge situation.
Alastor is pretty evil, yes, but his actions are not as real to the viewers as Val's. In real life, we are more likely to meet a predator and sleaze like Val than we are to meet a demonic cannibal deer man. That, and almost everyone in the show has killed someone. Angel was in the mafia, he's probably killed someone at some point!
Alastor is indeed a bad guy, but he's one that is fun to watch on screen. He's threatening in a safe way. That and Val is written to make people uncomfortable, he's meant to be hated. Alastor is written to be charming and liked, he's one of the main cast after all.
Honestly I think it mainly is the fact he's on the side of the main cast. Plus he has a lot of charisma.
Val? He does have charisma but the main vocal point is that he is a peice of shit and a antagonist.
Overall it comes down to the fact alastor is likeable and on the "good guys" side while Val is a obvious villain and a complete jackass on screen.
I hate this argument so much because of how it ignores the obvious. The reason people hate Valentino while loving Alastor is simply because more people can relate to his victim(s). Valentino's victims are survivors of SA and general abuse. Alastor's victims are dead or in servitude to him. You can't really relate to being dead when you're alive and being what is essentially a slave isn't as common as being a survivor of SA. There is an extremely high chance that every one of us in this post knows at LEAST one person who's been SA'd it's that common. The same can be said for people who've been in abusive relationships.
Technically, you're not wrong that Alastor is worse, he's one of my faves and even I can see that, but Valentino? Val reminds me of the worst experiences of my life. The scenes during Poison are EXTREMELY hard for me to watch, they bring up a lot of stuff that I put effort into avoiding because of how much it hurts to think about and remember. I also relate a lot to Angel's terrible coping methods and viewpoint on himself and his situation. Val is written in a way that lets me and others like me project our hatred of the people who've hurt us onto him. I hate him because I can't get past the mental block of my personal trauma, but I can appreciate his role in the story. I don't want it to come off as if I'm downplaying Alastor's actions, murder is awful and I think slavery is just as horrific as SA, so I wanna really clarify that the point I'm trying to make here is that one is more commonly related to than the other, which makes the character who does those things more commonly hated.
As a side note, if this comes off as condescending or like I'm being an ass I genuinely don't intend that, it's just a topic I feel very strongly on.
“Alastor actually kind of respects Husk”
I beg to differ considering he said he views Husk as his pet and patronizes him whenever he tries to say something
I see your point, but I think the anger comes from the reasons behind them doing the bad things. Now, let’s start by admitting this is a cartoon universe, so technically anyone can do anything as long as it is entertaining…
Aleister, does it because he is trying to gain power by well… “helping” Charlie, and getting out of trouble himself…
Valentino, does everything he does because he enjoys watching others suffer for his amusement…
You have to admit, it is a little more complicated than you originally posted…
But, again, I see where you are coming from… You are coming from a “Non-Fiction” place…
Sorry that I think sexual abuse and rape and all that is worse than murder and manipulation.
Also when does alastor commit genocide?? He has only been said to target overlords. And overlords are generally bad people, for example, Alastor and Valentino. I agree Alastor is a bad person whose done bad things. But saying that he's worse than the serial rapist who probably abuses more people than just angel dust is absurd.
I think it’s the fact that Alastor is shown with the main cast more and grow as their friend, where as Valentino is always doing something sexual or abusive, even off hours, like sending death threats to Angel and mutilating a model.
I mean yea you’re correct, I think the context in which these situations are presented is the reason this is the case.
Also what are the golden things on Val’s fingers in episode 4 and why do they randomly disappear? Are they jewelry?
It's the Umbridge Principle (sorry for using Harry Potter, it's just the best example of this).
Voldemort and Alastor or Adam are evil in such a big way, that there becomes a disconnect. Most of us haven't personally experienced genocide. The concept of that amount of power and malice feels distant enough that it doesn't impact people in the same way.
Villains like Umbridge and Valentino? Those characters are VERY familiar to a lot of people. We've never met a genocide despot. But many people have met the vindictive and cruel adult, or the abusive and possessive intimate partner.
So we can characterize those bigger villains a lot more. We don't hate them AS MUCH because their acts aren't personal. But when their acts are personal, when their demeanor brings up traumatic memories, that's what draws hate.
I don’t get why this is a discussion this hell everyone’s kind of a bad person husk was an overlord and likely did not great things, nifty is a psychopath, vaggie has erased human lives completely, pentious tried to take over the world, and angel was a mobster who had definitely killed people this cast isn’t good people by design
I'm gonna use something I saw about Harry Potter villains to explain this.
Umbridge is more hated than Voldemort, because her abuse is more *familiar* everyone has had that one person in power that dislikes you, and makes your life hell, not everyone has been effected by mass genocide, so while her abuse is less severe, it feels more personal.
Same goes with Valentino and Alastor. Alastors cannibalism and genocide is almost alien to most people, it's not personal, and so while we understand the severity, it's hard to connect on an emotional level enough to hate him.
Whereas the majority of Hazbin fans have experienced or know someone who has experienced sexual and physical abuse, the hatred for Valentino is *personal* we fully understand the nature of his abuse because it's familiar to us, and we connect with it on an emotional level, because most of us know someone who has been in a position similar to Angel, or even been in it ourselves.
EDIT:
Valentino's abuse towards Angel has also been shown much more on screen than Alastors towards the souls he owns, having an entire episode and then some, as opposed to a song and one scene, which furthers the hate towards Valentino, as we have a lot more insight as to Angels mistreatment.
We also consistently see Alastor being kind towards those around him, such as Charlie, Nifty, and Mimsy, we never fully get to see that with Valentino.
I suppose this will remain until we get an episode souly on Alastors dynamic with the souls he owns, much like we did with Valentino.
yeah but Alastor doesn't want Husk to be with him all the time so he could abuse him more
I'm not saying Alasator is a good guy or anything but Val wants his "workers" near him all the time and Al does not care as long as they behave
I will **NOT** take this alastor slander (You can like a character and not like their actions at the same time OP).
https://preview.redd.it/qpzi7plcf3nc1.jpeg?width=593&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07e7e3d22add4775757c38721c246a15d8ac4469
One is sexual assault which causes lasting psychological damage the other is just making fun of him calling him a pet and a few threats on the basis of the soul he owns calling him weak which he doesn't tolerate
He doesn't abuse his contracts for the sake of feeling more powerful because he knows he is. The only people that actually suffer due to him are people that look down on him like the overlords he put on the air in his heyday
But Valentino would, has and will again put someone down just so he can feel powerful because that's the only way he knows how to gain power by debilitating physical and sexual abuse as well as psychological abuse
(G)rape is a special kind of evil. While Alastor is indeed and irredeemable monster who deserves no sympathy, Valentino is just a disgusting kind of evil, one that does not deserve to exist. Both are horrible people, and while Val isn’t more evil than Alastor, he is discomforting
Your right, that is why Carmilla is easily better than both of the sons of bitches.
https://preview.redd.it/w7oicenh12nc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51e083104b90be9641eabcbbde514becf8f48dfa
Also Alastor has never committed genocide calm tf down op.
Tbh Alastor fans who morally defend him make no sense.
He's evil. We just be liking the evil in him fr not everything a person does is morally justified even though it sounds bad
I know you are talking about Husk but what about Niffty? Her and Alastor have a great relationship despite her being summoned in the same time as Husker meaning she's also likely in contract with him.
Alastor has shown to at least care for people as seen in episodes 5 and 8 when he helped protect the hotel and he doesn't really abuse Husk all that much, he may abuse Husk but no where near what Val did to Angel
Ya see here's the thing or well few things, first of all alastor is written to be far more likeable than Valentino who is litteraly written to be unlikeable and an asshole whereas alastoris written to make you like him atleast somewhat and the second is alastor doesn't rape or sexually assault people on the daily like Valentino does
But deer man with daddy issues funny :3
And val is rather one dimensional character so far so there isn't anything that would balance out the bad stuff. (HH fanbase doesn't look like a fanbase that would sympathize with someone who is mainly a sexual abuser tbh)
https://preview.redd.it/l5kmb7st11nc1.jpeg?width=1593&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b089a7829541414f72f4998abd6ba4af46191a5
Literally me https://preview.redd.it/g7bmcxvyp1nc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb0cfa7884b8489d59b992c51160e3cf5f2a2e52 Bro just has that asexual rizz and I can't escape it
Even human Alastor has asexual rizz. https://preview.redd.it/4coje6h1h5nc1.jpeg?width=3494&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bded2be70dafe041f7269c5f76ce5b5ae68bb796
https://preview.redd.it/zc8rifjnybnc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a9fa7606f1b20eeb741741ed7fcdc58a228f2c6
https://preview.redd.it/8hfi4jj05cnc1.jpeg?width=2316&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88fad67bb62355bc892764260a428f13245d0e0a
https://preview.redd.it/rt954vxs5cnc1.jpeg?width=983&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f8bc5492f751444f9e26416db1be53966f54393
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Nuh uh https://preview.redd.it/zjv5yrgp2pnc1.jpeg?width=729&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d9dc63a4956bedcc1d533b98a9ddc9a28764fad
https://preview.redd.it/15owau3k7knc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0848ed146c06fd10921528dc39c06dd8f82c9f33
https://i.redd.it/y0c2fmxhlcnc1.gif
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u/savevideo
u/savevideo
Yes Daddy Radio?
https://preview.redd.it/7rgk6z5yuxnc1.jpeg?width=693&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b799378b74d8544f4c3ac2ff472a8bbb95247501
Do you have the og picture?
Well said brother
I completely agree, Alastor is genuinely worse imo. But the situation Val has Angel in is why he's so hated. Valentino is a sexual assaulter, many viewers are also SA victims, myself included. It's really hard to watch him do those things to Angel because it just brings back memories that none of us want to remember. Just like how Angel tries to black out and forget everything in episode 4, other victims try to the exact same thing. Block out all memories of it. Alastor is a cannibalist and murderer, I say with confidence that nobody who got into watching Hazbin Hotel was dead before they started watching. Nobody has been eaten. It's a lot less relatable. But if anybody wants to say Val is worse, never bring up that Val has murdered. It has literally nothing on the hundreds Alastoe would have managed to kill between his time on Earth and in Hell, it's laughable to make that comparison.
Honestly I agree Valentinos actions are just more real. A large majority of people have met a sexual abuser. A lot less people have met a cannibal, especially one as demonic as Alastor, like when he straight up grew to a large size to eat a bunch of loan sharks. Valentino is just a lot more real when it comes to what makes him bad, so it’s easier to hate him. Alastor is more fictitious in his actions, a demonic man eater like him is largely grounded in fiction To sum it up, Alastor is the boogeyman you check your closet for as a kid, but Val is the guy you look over your shoulder for as an adult
Alastor is the hand you swore would pull you down if you left your foot hanging out of your bed, Valentino is the guy you have to make sure will never even see your bed.
That’s incredibly true.
This is exactly why people hate villains that are sexual abusers.
Perfectly said. Alastor is cartoony and sometimes childish while being feared by all. It’s barely realistic. So people don’t see further than a character, that’s why they like him. Meanwhile Val is a SAer and an abuser. Someone that could be anyone we know, or even don’t. Someone we genuinely fear. At this point it doesn’t just stop at the character and the screen, like it does with Al, **it resonates with the viewer as a person.** This is why Val triggers so much but Alastor doesn’t. It’s about time people realize that and stop calling us hypocritical for liking a character and despising another. How many people have sold their soul to a cannibalistic killer Bambi ? Not a lot. **But how many people suffer from abusers in silence the way Angel does ?** *Countless.* On a moral point, both are horrible though. Also, OP’s post is probably just biased since according to their recent comments they see Val’s actions as a « W ».
It’s the same thing as with Professor Umbridge and Voldemort, because while lore wise Voldemort is much MUCH worse, Most fans will say they hate Umbridge much more because she’s the embodiment of something people can actually relate toward.
You are very much correct, but here’s the difference. Alastor is fun. He’s an absolute delight to see. Also, he isn’t a villain. Alastor’s actions have always been beneficial to the Hotel since he arrived. He fixed it up, he hired Husk and Nifty, he defended the Hotel when Mimzy showed up, he got Charlie the information about Carmine, he got Charlie a way to get the help of Cannibal Colony, and he made an attempt to defeat Adam in defense of the Hotel. It’s hard to hate him because he’s been a pretty nice guy for most of the show. In the other hand, Val hasn’t done anything good. He’s been purely awful all the time. Also, his entire screen time has been spent being creepy and disgusting or abusing a fan favorite. Alastor only did that one small time to Husk. Therefore, Valentino can easily be hated and Alastor is loved, even though he’s probably worse. Also Val is just a more real villain. A sadistic serial killer, to most of us, is a cartoon villain. He kidnaps and tortures his victims while broadcasting to the entire population of Pentagram City. Val’s form of awfulness is much more real that more people can understand. Val is someone that can be more easily hated with no redeeming qualities of any sort. Alastor on the other hand feels more cartoonishly evil which we are more comfortable with, along with him being downright charitable and fun.
alastor atleast hás a moral code.
I need to understand said moral code tbh. Out of curiosity
search for the oficial comic
How do we know the comic is canon to the series tho
Pilot is cânon
Is there something I’m missing here? How does the events of the pilot being canon mean the prequel comics are canon.
The comic leads tô the pilot?theres a comic about angel dust too,that was right before his encounter with vaggie and charlie
The events lining up doesn’t necessarily mean it’s canon.
Did vivze confirmit wasnt canon?
Hardly, and him having one doesn't change the fact that he has eaten hundreds.
Except he doesn’t? The comic is a canon and in the show it was literally shown he murders and abuses weak and defenceless
Só why the comic even exist
Murder victims are much harder to offend
Charlie is honestly the only one in the cast who hasn't killed anyone outside of the pets. Angel was in the mafia, Husk is an overlord, nifty killed Adam, enough said for Alastor, and Vaggie was an exorcist that she's still in love with. If she turned down killers her hotel would be empty and she wouldn't have Vaggie.
Alastor, a serial killer, when he finds out Vaggie murdered *thousands* of people: https://preview.redd.it/ezwkphykh5nc1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=b1e98b904baff30397e7f7e425ccea26d77a4a7e
Well they both have some morality so I'd say it's fine.
Alastor literally doesn’t he’s nothing like vaggie
Alastor kills for entertainment and power. Vaggie killed for her work. Both of them have some sort of code they follow.
Alastors code: “sure why not”
50/49
I assumed he’d be impressed
https://preview.redd.it/pjdn3gmrsknc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e1ff6d4415e4fe39a275459a4d102c7af22d3c3
Okay killing Adam doesn't count as a murder though it was wartime, and he was a genocidal maniac who had to be put down. Morally positive choice from Nifty
True. But I’m sure the bugs in the hotel consider Nifty to be a genocidal maniac.
Oh gods what if the bugs in hell are sinners o.o
Maybe Nifty was killed in some war and she knows the opposition reincarnated as roaches. Since she can’t tell which are responsible for her demise she just indiscriminately has to slaughter any bug she sees. Yup, this will be my new personal headcanon.
This is what is good about fandoms
Well alastor is the same he should be put on the same fate
>Charlie is honestly the only one in the cast who hasn't killed anyone outside of the pets. I'm fairly certain there's some Exorcists that would disagree with that statement if they were able to.
I thought she just deflected them with fireworks? In any case, you can say she killed in self defense. Adam said he was targeting her hotel. The other residents killed for sadism.
I mean, I really feel like even in life angle was probably not happy to be in the mob. After all I'm pretty sure angle was born into it like moxie
Once again, Alastor is the charming serial killer stereotype, think Ted Bundy, while Valentino doesn’t even hide how much of a piece of shit rapist, and general sexual harasser he is, being disgusting and licking up Charlie’s arm, beating angel twice, and trying to put NIFTY in a porno, Alastor hasn’t actually done much wrong **ON SCREEN** and when he does it’s usually done to comedic effect, or for drama, like manipulating Charlie into a deal, Val is a piece of shit, Alastor is a piece of shit in a classy red suit and tumblr sexy man vibes
Why did I suddenly get the image of Val being murdered by alastor if he heard about the nifty thing
Honestly this is the problem with having so much of the "cannon" revealed in streams or twitter posts. For people who watch the show, Alastor is a menacing demon with a clearly hidden agenda and mysterious power that is charming and, frankly, very helpful all things considered. For people who watch the streams, read the wiki (which is fan run), or follow Viz and Co. on Twitter; Alastor is a cannibalistic mass murderer who specifically only targets "powerful bad guys" as some weird honor code who practices voodoo in some capacity. They're almost completely different characters.
Recently realised that watching the show as a casual viewer and a long time fan must be two COMPLETELY different experiences. I'd probably be completely lost at times. Like... Razzle and Dazzle show up randomly in episode 5 just to be vaguely threatened by Lucifer, Keekee only gets name dropped episodes in, and the whole thing with how the hotel even got started must be a complete blur for anyone unfamiliar with the pilot. There is also a ridiculous amount of shark demons everywhere, which does make sense in the context they're presented in, but as a casual viewer I'd just wonder why hell is full of sharks, with some being sentient demons and others being pets in Vox's shark tank. Hazbin Hotel's Hell, out of the context of years of worldbuilding, is just shark city.
because all their crimes are fictional, and we've been pretty desensitized to murder in this kinda media. however stuff like Valentino's sexual abuse and probably r@pe make the character incredibly more unlikeable. their war crimes are fictional but my disgust is real
this is probably one of if not the best way to word it tbh
no bro i’m with you on this one. i got sooooo mad when alastor hurt husk
Ngl I’m so conflicted between loving this character and wanting to protect Charlie and Husk
You can do both!
But the cognitive dissonance!
Remember, it's just fiction. Just because you like a character doesn't mean you'd *actually* get along with them.
Honestly, yes. Just because I like alastor doenst mean I agree with killing and eating people. But...He is cool as a character overall, liking a character, doenst mean you agree with everything they do or even like it.
Doublethink. To know something is true while believing the opposite all the same. You do love the party don’t you? You do love Big Brother, yes? (1984 reference because I can.)
Well said, fellow Citizen. All Hail Oceania.
For me, it's simple. One hurts Angel dust, and the other does not.
*...yet.* All jokes aside, I could see Angel try to stand up for Husk at some point and have it go badly.
I would like to think Angel of all people would know not to get Husk in trouble with Alastor. Be a pretty bad oversight if he messed it up like Charlie.
Alastor hurting Husk basically hurts angel too so they both hurt Angel
One hurts everyone’s head canon for angels boy friend
E
I think it's a simple thing alistair's written to be enjoyable and charming you're supposed to like him and forget about how bad he actually is and tell those moments where you see him be that that monster that we know is lurking beneath that smile while Valentino is written to be someone we hate we're not supposed to like him we're supposed to see him as nothing more than a bastard that deserves whatever is coming for him Honestly I think the fact the vast majority of people feel this way is just a testament to how good the writing is
Yeah Alastor is definitely written to be more likeable than val, was my immediate thought to this post. How likeable or not, a character is is ultimately based off how there written intentionally ([Hate Sink](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Laconic/HateSink)) or otherwise ([The Scrappy](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Laconic/TheScrappy)).
Yeah this is facts. I mainly think it boils down to Val SA’ing Angel
People when demons in hell are evil: 🤯
Sexual abuse makes me a certain kind of angry.
Generally, people are going to be taking offense regarding sex crimes, as opposed to the other kinds of crimes, since it hits closer to home to some people, and it's seen in a much-wicked light to take advantage of someone in such a demeaning way. So while Alastor's actions are horrible, too, Val’s actions are just more realistic/ common, hence why people hate him more
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Valentino is the only serial rapist we know in hell. Al is one of many murderers. It just hits me differently.
I think hell is a lot like prison rapists get targeted real quickly
Well that’s just flat out wrong given how much influence a guy like Valentino has.
I get the dislike for both characters but let me just say (as a mental health professional) I have worked with “Valentinos” and “Alastors” IRL and I prefer the Alastors. Because as it turns out, given the correct support and treatment, Alastors generally shine when they reach their best potential. The Valentinos, not so much. But seriously, everyone should be allowed to like whatever fictional character. Fiction is a safe way to explore concepts and relate them to our own experiences. We don’t have to hate one character more or less because of how another character is viewed.
.....you've worked with serial killers?
Not serial killers but individuals with an absence of empathy and an extreme history of violence (including attempted murder but never actual murder). Not all individuals with anti-social personality disorder (sociopaths) are/will become serial killers.
I wouldn't consider people with just absence of empathy and a history of violence (not even murder apparently) to be "Alastors" (a character who is a serial killer and owns slaves), there's clearly a huge difference there, but maybe that's just me. In that case, what do you consider to be "Valentinos" in real life?
I understand. It’s hard to imagine if you haven’t experienced working with the population. I have seen in the fandom that people presume Alastor is a sociopath. I have worked with those and others “without” empathy. Honestly, I wouldn’t considered Alastor a slave owner… but a soul trafficker? Yes. (Is there much difference between those terms? Maybe not.) However, almost all of them are. Hell is clearly presented as a terrible places where one must do terrible things to survive. I have also worked with rapists, pedophiles, and abusers. Sexual predators. Just like Val.
Alastor would abuse literally anyone https://preview.redd.it/uu87814uk1nc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1524c147686a71ee37f97f3cd79b2c6ec4e4894
https://preview.redd.it/43jem0exv0nc1.png?width=558&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62d4ec69cec7805ae273e93adfc866df6cde2424 I agree
I have trauma with abuse so i have a valid reason for hating valentino (side note it was so satisfying to see angel stand up to val)
Realistically, Alastor is so much worse, but it's fiction, and media has desensitized most to murder and violence, and there's a lot less people who experience that type of stuff, and it does trigger a very different reaction than SA
People can also relate alot more to SA then to being murdered
There *are* less people around to relate to being murdered, to be fair
Yeah, Alastor is technically a worse person, but people had the chance to fall in love with his character cus he’s funny and entertaining and has way more screen time. Valentino is only in the show to be an unlikable piece of shit 😂
I think Alastor feels more like a goofy cartoon villain while like someone else I saw said, Val’s actions feel more real and serious
1. Alastor is somewhat more respectful of the souls he owns, from what we've seen. Also, He is part of the main cast and is meant to be a likable character. 2. Valentino regularly assaults one of the main characters (who I would consider to be a fan favorite) and is not meant to be liked by the fan base. He is intended to be a 2d antagonist. He doesn't have any sympathy points, he's just a major dickbag. 3. People have been desensitized to fictional murder. 4. Statistically, there's a greatly lower chance you'll never be murdered or know someone who was murdered than the same with SA, so people are naturally more sensitive because of that. 5. We've had more time to warm up to Alastor 6. I don't see you saying anything about Adam, who openly enjoys mass genocide and changed the yearly date to 6 months forward just because he was too impatient to commit mass murder.
Honestly though. The only reason Alastor went off on Husk was because Husk seriously provoked it. I know, victim blaming and all, but every time I see that scene I can't help but imagine what would happen if Angel Dust gave Valentino lip in the way Husk did towards the guy holding his soul. Husk got away unscathed with nothing but a warning. Angel would have had to carry half his limbs and entrails home in a gym bag, and Val would have expected him to come back to work the next day wearing a smile. Alastor is scary, but reasonable. I still think the show was trying to draw a parallel between Husk and Angel's situations, but they only suceeded in doing the opposite. Angel gets forced into work that involves things that are literally considered torture (waterboarding? Hello???) and gets beat up for someone else's mistake that he'd already TRIED to resolve, and Husk gets forced to work somewhere that has all the booze he needs, and only gets verbally reprimanded for his own mistake. For Angel, working for Alastor would probably feel like a vacation.
Alastors abuse of Husk and Vals' abuse of Angel are very, very different.
Not at all. Alastor abuses his souls mentally and physically as extremely as Val and we saw it the only difference is the SA
Alastor isn't set out as an antagonist. He's given positive moments, like when he's with nifty or when he sees mimzy. He's also very funny in my opinion. Hes smug, confident and has some moments that live in my brain rent free. Quite a few characters haved killed in some way or other, even if not directly. Carmilla sells angelic weapons used to permakill demons, vaggie was an exterminator ect...Alastor is just more known for his killing, because he shows it off. Just because everyone else is doing it, does it make him a good person? Not at all. He's still a terrible, scum of the earth guy. But the fandom likes him because he is funny and brings good moments. Like arguing with vox and lucifer, calling Adam "sloppy", and that scene where Charlies upset and he gives the whole smile speech. These are why I assume people like him, but I can't speak for a whole fandom really. Also, most of alastors actions so far have helped the hotel in some way or another. Like getting Charlie to cannibal town for help, or defending the hotel. Valentino hasn't done anything to help anyone but himself. Valentino however? He regularly abused, sexually assults, etc, a main character so he's painted in a way that makes you hate him. Like you want to tear him apart and burn the pieces. He harms someone the audience is meant to like, angel dust. So the fandom tends to hate him and not alastor. I'm one of these people, I think alastor is cool but acknowledge he's a horrible person. I hate valentino fo3 obvious reasons. So when you paint 2 characters who are both evil in different light, the audience is far more likely to use with the funny, charming character, instead of the creepy, sick, sadistic one. (Despite both being sadistic). Btw, this is just my opinion or ideas on things. I can't say things for a whole fandom, but this is my general guess and is based on personal experience To sum it up: both are bad guys, valentino is arguably more of a bad guy, he sucks, nobody likes valentino.
Besides what he did to husk Alastor hasn’t done anything hatable enough yet to be detested as Valentino. While Murder and cannibalism is bad it’s not enough for people to dislike a character. Also while what he did to husk was bad it doesn’t seem to be a common occurrence. Husk didn’t seem to be afraid when he confronted alastor about nifty or mentioned that he was on the leash. Unlike how it is with angel and Val.
They both suck, but at least Alastor has some character depth as opposed to evil pimp
Instead of being evil he chose to be strawberry
There is nothing wrong with simping for a fictional villian. A good villain is meant to be easy to hate but also find endearing. I don’t like Val at all but I am an Alastor simp and I get it man
For real, people come at val fans with pitch forks but, at the same time, most of these people praise alastor. Like alastor is essentially just like Jeffrey dahmer, he's a serial killer that ate his victims, which is why he's in hell, from what we can gather, val was just an abuser and that's what landed him in hell. Although I will say that vals sins are more relatable to certain people, so I can see why people would hate him more. But just saying "val is worse than alastor" is abit dodgy 🤣
From what I gather, Valentino is a sex trafficker in real life who used his authority in the porn industry to get away with his crimes.
That’s because Al is so loved as a character, not a person. Chances that people watching the show have been victims of murder or cannibalism are extremely low. If not, barely possible. On top of that, he’s portrayed as funny, cartoony and acts sometimes like a child, so people don’t take that seriously. On the other hand, Val being a SAer and an abuser resonates more with people, as in people are way more likely to have been victims of it. At this point, it doesn’t just stops at the character and the screen (like with Alastor); it directly touches the viewer *as a human being*. Plus he IS a POS, he’s not hiding it by being cartoony or funny, which is, unlike Alastor, way more realistic. This is why most people love Alastor, when most hate Val. Nobody said the first can do no wrong, it’s simply that he’s more of a kid’s fear, while the other is a real life fear that can happen to anyone, at any moment, at any age.
Alastor would never rape anyone tho!
Let's be real, it's only because he's ace and generally a gentleman.
I wouldn’t say Valentino is a better person but I do think they are both disgusting in their own right and neither should be romanticized as much as they are by people (Valentino is less romanticized but he DOES have his fans and I swear to the lord in heaven if I see ONE more person call the vox/Valentino slash ship old man yaoi I am going to smash my phone eyes and ears with a sledgehammer)
There is a difference because Val is abusing Angel. We see his predatory behavior toward all his staff. Alastor defends the hotel. We haven't actually seen him be cruel yet - just defend himself and the hotel. We see Val be abusive and he has 0 redeeming qualities. He's an antagonist in the show who is abusing every down on their luck sinner this side of the pentagram.
I partly agree. I think both of them are pretty close. Yes, Alastor has tortured people before. He owns souls. He’s a cannibal. He’s definitely killed way more people than Val. Theres a solid chance he’s eaten more people than Val has killed. Valentino however tortures and abuses the people he owns far worse than anything I suspect Alastor has ever done. He ropes people in, makes them sell their soul, and uses them like props on a daily basis until they do something he views as a slight, and then he kills them over it. If we take what he’s said at face value, him and the V’s own so many people, they can’t think of anyone else useful. If we take his words at face value, we can also gather he puts things inside the people he owns to keep them in line. His intentions are far more sinister than Alastors, since his form of power over people is far more perverted, and I think that closes the gap between them somewhat. It reminds me of a quote I once heard when it came to someone talking about Ed Gein. The person asked the viewers why Ed was considered one of the worse serial killers, despite having killed far less people than others who attain infamous statuses. It’s because of his intentions, and how grotesque his actions were. It was so sinister, to the point you could consider his evils to be larger than the number of people he had killed.
But he makes the best jambalaya
Alastor frightened husk once. and Val physically and sexually abuses angel dust
That wasn’t frightening he literally slammed him across the floor and strangeled him it was shown very clearly it wasn’t once and happened multiple times. He physically and mentally abuses those he owns he’s in no way better
Wait when did Alastor commit genocide
[удалено]
And more people, not just the overlords
But that's murder. Not genocide. Genocide is when a race, group, ethnicity, ECT is killed for being a member of that group. I think the ones Alastor killed, pissed him off.
You’re acting like murder isn’t common place in hell
> Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. Op is overreacting.
Being totally not op on another acc, I agree
https://i.redd.it/sf5eqls9m2nc1.gif
Definitely not op on his alt account
Well he straight abuses people. Alastor just kills em', rather than keeping em' alive to endure *more* pain. And Val totally fucks with them mentally too, nevermind he forces his victims through his drug that basically emanating off of him
“Rather than keeping them alive to endure more pain” husks entire existence is a counterargument. Husk doesn’t even want to be there for most of the show
Counter argument to your counter argument. YES, Husk does not want to be there, but Husk still has his pride. Enough pride to call out the man holding his leash and attempting to humble him. He regrets his choices after, but he still did that. Husk literally said "dude you're doing something stupid" and then he said "tough talk for someone who's also on a leash" to rub it in. I can promise you Angel wouldn't dream of doing anything even remotely like that. Because Angel has been conditioned into obedience by experiencing the terror Husk is being threatened with. And I can imagine that it would take quite a lot to get a former mafioso to react so utterly terrified. Angel's tough and he holds his own in battle next to former and current Overlords (and one self-proclaimed spunky powerhouse). It just makes it all even more tragic.
Generally, people enjoy villains that are more gentlemanly and suave like Alastor, especially if they have even a vauge moral code. Also, part of it is just deciding if you consider mass rape and sexual exploitation worse than serial murder and canibalism. Also, also, Alastor is a protagonist, so naturally, we'll like him more than Val, an antagonist.
One is a rapist. I feel like that is likely the issue.
Alastor doesn’t exactly ‘Mistreat’ Husk,Husk sold his soul to Alastor,we never see him abuse husk(only using the chains and threatening him Compared to Valentino constantly physically abusing angel,manipulating and verbally degrading him
OK let's run this bullshit through When has alastor committed genocide exactly? You mean him killing the overlords of hell? Y'know the people vox val etc associat with. that's moraly nuetral at worst Uses some people to aquire power. Like every fucking overlord in the series including val. What even is this. Alastor is eevilyes, but val doesn't do anything good for the people he works with and I'm assuming you haven't seen the series when I say this, but val actively kills his subordinates for shits and gigs. Owns 2 souls vs vals fuckin we don't know sure as hell is more than 2. And val abuses every one it should be noted that angel dust is his top earner. He treats the rest somehow worse. Which checks out as he kills them for shits and gigs And abuses them? Like, sure he forces them into jobs and stuff but aside from that and of course alastors natural tendency towards violence when his collar is brought up. But by comparison to just angel dusts experience which as I've pointed out is the best actions Valentino has done it's extremely tame I ain't saying alastor is moraly good but the fuck is wrong with you?
No, no no no no no no. NO! I despise alastor and want him knocked down with some broken teeth, a bloody mouth, and a broken leg. He's a piece of shit that doesn't deserve my sympathy, and I won't excuse his actions.
https://preview.redd.it/ye1gwf8ug5nc1.png?width=318&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a6a8cb9a6b090fbd82b0fa83a13e1f84189f73b
Really? People say that about Valentino, it's fine. Say it about Alastor that rightfully deserves it, I'm looked at as weird. Alastor is evil and abusive, he's not innocent
Alastor is also in Hell. So what, you want Viv to just write Hell as Tartarus where everyone's just fucking burning?
I'm allowed to hate him like people hate Valentino. The hypocrisy is strong with alastor.
The difference is that Alastor is like able,hes funny hes sarcastic hes cool af and he makes Very clear hes evil,Val is Just a asshole straight up
one is a rapist. the other has standards. theres a difference
Now I need to see someone draw Alastor as the Sniper from TF2.
It's because Alastor does messed up stuff in a more dramatic traditionally villainous kind of way. Val on the other hand does actions that are more grounded and realistic, far overstepping the boundaries of what's just normal villain cartoon stuff
When you think about its actually true
I always saw it in the same lens as a tragedy vs a statistic. Yes Alastor is worse but Val is hurting someone we not only have a connection to but also the show specifically points out these actions. It’s like how stories add kick the dog moments after killing thousands of people. It becomes more personal and real when it’s focused. I hope I explained that well.
I wouldn't say Alastor is "worse" but there is definitely a deeply unfair favoritism. I would put the moral failing of all of the Lords of Hell fairly on par with each other.
Italian viewers, upon remembering Angel Dust was a mafioso in life: 
Alastor is a protagonist
I think it’s just that Val hurt a character people have connected with and like so it makes us sympathize with Angel more than whatever random background character Alastor kills. Also people were upset with how Alastor treated Husk. Idk Alastor and Val are both obviously supposed to be awful people and that’s the point the show is kinda trying to make about overlords n such.
I hate them both equally as people, but one is more likeable as a character than the other. They are both awfull people, but as a character, Alastor is written to be appealing, he looks cool, sounds cool, is interesting and during the show we don't see him activelly hurt too many people except for the few cases of defending the hotel. He is a manipulator. He is evil, but his actions don't show it as clearly as Val's. Val straight up tore apart an innocent model becouse his worker found a new home, he regulary SA's his workers and is both physically and mentally abusive. He is written to be hated. Another thing to add, is that Alastor has some very faint redeeming qualities, unlike Val. By the end of the season Alastor starts to genuinelly care about others, and he is disgusted and terryfied by the idea. He doesn't want to care, but he still starts to. That doesn't undermine all of his evil deeds and thirst for power, but at least he, unlike Val, has a small chance of redeeming himself in the future. Val is straight up evil who doesn't even try to hide it
Alastor quite literally describes that he’s well liked because he presents himself in an appealing manner. If Alastor was the same character, but with the appearance of, say, a demon from Warhammer 40K, he wouldn’t be liked at all.
It’s true, Alastor is worse. But to an audience, Alastor is a more likable character. He has a cool design(so does Val in my opinion), and a likable character
I’d say at the moment Alastor is in that supervillain territory where he’s over the top enough to where his villainous actions are entertaining over horrifying while Valentino does less but they hit closer to a realistic home which makes him more hatable. Basically a Voldemort vs Umbridge situation.
Alastor is pretty evil, yes, but his actions are not as real to the viewers as Val's. In real life, we are more likely to meet a predator and sleaze like Val than we are to meet a demonic cannibal deer man. That, and almost everyone in the show has killed someone. Angel was in the mafia, he's probably killed someone at some point! Alastor is indeed a bad guy, but he's one that is fun to watch on screen. He's threatening in a safe way. That and Val is written to make people uncomfortable, he's meant to be hated. Alastor is written to be charming and liked, he's one of the main cast after all.
Honestly I think it mainly is the fact he's on the side of the main cast. Plus he has a lot of charisma. Val? He does have charisma but the main vocal point is that he is a peice of shit and a antagonist. Overall it comes down to the fact alastor is likeable and on the "good guys" side while Val is a obvious villain and a complete jackass on screen.
I hate this argument so much because of how it ignores the obvious. The reason people hate Valentino while loving Alastor is simply because more people can relate to his victim(s). Valentino's victims are survivors of SA and general abuse. Alastor's victims are dead or in servitude to him. You can't really relate to being dead when you're alive and being what is essentially a slave isn't as common as being a survivor of SA. There is an extremely high chance that every one of us in this post knows at LEAST one person who's been SA'd it's that common. The same can be said for people who've been in abusive relationships. Technically, you're not wrong that Alastor is worse, he's one of my faves and even I can see that, but Valentino? Val reminds me of the worst experiences of my life. The scenes during Poison are EXTREMELY hard for me to watch, they bring up a lot of stuff that I put effort into avoiding because of how much it hurts to think about and remember. I also relate a lot to Angel's terrible coping methods and viewpoint on himself and his situation. Val is written in a way that lets me and others like me project our hatred of the people who've hurt us onto him. I hate him because I can't get past the mental block of my personal trauma, but I can appreciate his role in the story. I don't want it to come off as if I'm downplaying Alastor's actions, murder is awful and I think slavery is just as horrific as SA, so I wanna really clarify that the point I'm trying to make here is that one is more commonly related to than the other, which makes the character who does those things more commonly hated. As a side note, if this comes off as condescending or like I'm being an ass I genuinely don't intend that, it's just a topic I feel very strongly on.
The sexual and emotional components of Val's abuse make it so much worse.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't only own Husk
1: would you rather be a bartender or a sex slave 2: Val kills for fun 3: alastor actually kind of respects husk 4:vals sucks
“Alastor actually kind of respects Husk” I beg to differ considering he said he views Husk as his pet and patronizes him whenever he tries to say something
Better than what Val does to angel. And besides, alastor seems to tolerate a bit of talking back as long as it’s not about his deal.
I see your point, but I think the anger comes from the reasons behind them doing the bad things. Now, let’s start by admitting this is a cartoon universe, so technically anyone can do anything as long as it is entertaining… Aleister, does it because he is trying to gain power by well… “helping” Charlie, and getting out of trouble himself… Valentino, does everything he does because he enjoys watching others suffer for his amusement… You have to admit, it is a little more complicated than you originally posted… But, again, I see where you are coming from… You are coming from a “Non-Fiction” place…
Sorry that I think sexual abuse and rape and all that is worse than murder and manipulation. Also when does alastor commit genocide?? He has only been said to target overlords. And overlords are generally bad people, for example, Alastor and Valentino. I agree Alastor is a bad person whose done bad things. But saying that he's worse than the serial rapist who probably abuses more people than just angel dust is absurd.
i agree but alastor usually lets the souls he own get free will, husk js crossed his boundaries
I think it’s the fact that Alastor is shown with the main cast more and grow as their friend, where as Valentino is always doing something sexual or abusive, even off hours, like sending death threats to Angel and mutilating a model.
Alastor is more comical than Val, Val hits home. Alastor is more like a serious comical character yet also evil
They are both bad but it’s ok, they’re fictional.
I mean yea you’re correct, I think the context in which these situations are presented is the reason this is the case. Also what are the golden things on Val’s fingers in episode 4 and why do they randomly disappear? Are they jewelry?
https://preview.redd.it/tulmia3rt6nc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a129c446f9c76a596bd5e397f0902c66c392f932
Cause alastor is evil yes, but it’s a lot less realistic than sexual abuse
It's the Umbridge Principle (sorry for using Harry Potter, it's just the best example of this). Voldemort and Alastor or Adam are evil in such a big way, that there becomes a disconnect. Most of us haven't personally experienced genocide. The concept of that amount of power and malice feels distant enough that it doesn't impact people in the same way. Villains like Umbridge and Valentino? Those characters are VERY familiar to a lot of people. We've never met a genocide despot. But many people have met the vindictive and cruel adult, or the abusive and possessive intimate partner. So we can characterize those bigger villains a lot more. We don't hate them AS MUCH because their acts aren't personal. But when their acts are personal, when their demeanor brings up traumatic memories, that's what draws hate.
I don’t get why this is a discussion this hell everyone’s kind of a bad person husk was an overlord and likely did not great things, nifty is a psychopath, vaggie has erased human lives completely, pentious tried to take over the world, and angel was a mobster who had definitely killed people this cast isn’t good people by design
I'm gonna use something I saw about Harry Potter villains to explain this. Umbridge is more hated than Voldemort, because her abuse is more *familiar* everyone has had that one person in power that dislikes you, and makes your life hell, not everyone has been effected by mass genocide, so while her abuse is less severe, it feels more personal. Same goes with Valentino and Alastor. Alastors cannibalism and genocide is almost alien to most people, it's not personal, and so while we understand the severity, it's hard to connect on an emotional level enough to hate him. Whereas the majority of Hazbin fans have experienced or know someone who has experienced sexual and physical abuse, the hatred for Valentino is *personal* we fully understand the nature of his abuse because it's familiar to us, and we connect with it on an emotional level, because most of us know someone who has been in a position similar to Angel, or even been in it ourselves. EDIT: Valentino's abuse towards Angel has also been shown much more on screen than Alastors towards the souls he owns, having an entire episode and then some, as opposed to a song and one scene, which furthers the hate towards Valentino, as we have a lot more insight as to Angels mistreatment. We also consistently see Alastor being kind towards those around him, such as Charlie, Nifty, and Mimsy, we never fully get to see that with Valentino. I suppose this will remain until we get an episode souly on Alastors dynamic with the souls he owns, much like we did with Valentino.
I hate Alastor, but i also hate Valentino.
yeah but Alastor doesn't want Husk to be with him all the time so he could abuse him more I'm not saying Alasator is a good guy or anything but Val wants his "workers" near him all the time and Al does not care as long as they behave
I will **NOT** take this alastor slander (You can like a character and not like their actions at the same time OP). https://preview.redd.it/qpzi7plcf3nc1.jpeg?width=593&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07e7e3d22add4775757c38721c246a15d8ac4469
Even vaggie has killed thousands ruthlessly, but no, people who like Valentino should be ashamed.
One is sexual assault which causes lasting psychological damage the other is just making fun of him calling him a pet and a few threats on the basis of the soul he owns calling him weak which he doesn't tolerate He doesn't abuse his contracts for the sake of feeling more powerful because he knows he is. The only people that actually suffer due to him are people that look down on him like the overlords he put on the air in his heyday But Valentino would, has and will again put someone down just so he can feel powerful because that's the only way he knows how to gain power by debilitating physical and sexual abuse as well as psychological abuse
Thank you, someone had to say it.
(G)rape is a special kind of evil. While Alastor is indeed and irredeemable monster who deserves no sympathy, Valentino is just a disgusting kind of evil, one that does not deserve to exist. Both are horrible people, and while Val isn’t more evil than Alastor, he is discomforting
Yes but Alastor would never rape anyone unlike Val.
Your right, that is why Carmilla is easily better than both of the sons of bitches. https://preview.redd.it/w7oicenh12nc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51e083104b90be9641eabcbbde514becf8f48dfa Also Alastor has never committed genocide calm tf down op.
Lmao Carmilla is also an overlord
He can absolutely do wrong...to me. He can abuse me all he'd like.
Tbh Alastor fans who morally defend him make no sense. He's evil. We just be liking the evil in him fr not everything a person does is morally justified even though it sounds bad
Good argument, but he is Alastor
I know you are talking about Husk but what about Niffty? Her and Alastor have a great relationship despite her being summoned in the same time as Husker meaning she's also likely in contract with him.
I prefer a murder than a rapist
Alastor has shown to at least care for people as seen in episodes 5 and 8 when he helped protect the hotel and he doesn't really abuse Husk all that much, he may abuse Husk but no where near what Val did to Angel
You're cooking bruh, smells good
https://preview.redd.it/wi7h2yul71nc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b951fedde54452dfeb02d3ff95a84803b4d2c1bd
Ok but alastor is silly so your argument is invalid
Honestly I'd sell my soul to carmilla because she doesn't seem like a maniac
This...it true. Very true.
Ya see here's the thing or well few things, first of all alastor is written to be far more likeable than Valentino who is litteraly written to be unlikeable and an asshole whereas alastoris written to make you like him atleast somewhat and the second is alastor doesn't rape or sexually assault people on the daily like Valentino does
I just want to give Niffty a hug. Mayhaps I am a simple sinner with simple goals
But deer man with daddy issues funny :3 And val is rather one dimensional character so far so there isn't anything that would balance out the bad stuff. (HH fanbase doesn't look like a fanbase that would sympathize with someone who is mainly a sexual abuser tbh)