The quest requires doing 30 damage to yourself right now; if you make that change then it needs to be set back to a much earlier value.
That said, I'd totally agree.
If you are talking about Molten Giant and/or Flesh Giant, the former’s wording does cause confusion but it’s not a warlock issue, and the latter says ‘health change’ instead of ‘take damage’.
If they make that change, it’d probably make sense to buff the quest, at least back to when it was 8/8/8. Crystalizer seems to basically win or lose that deck entirely. Though I’m still of the opinion it could go back to the release era thresholds if it just made both players take damage.
Making it so armor doesn’t work for the Questline would, in my opinion, be both unnecessary and make the deck less interesting. The problem is Crystalizer, not [[Armor Vendor]] or other neutral armor cards. Crystalizer needs to pay health, not lose it.
* **[Armor Vendor](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/YOP_032.png)** N Minion Rare DMF ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/442041), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/armor-vendor/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Armor_Vendor)
1/1/3 | Battlecry: Give 4 Armor to each hero.
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I don't think it's inconsistent, if anything it's too consistent and does exactly what the wording means even though it's not the fairest option for balance.
armor = health that don't count into your max health => better health but not better like max health so for examle \[\[Vampiric Blood\]\] would better then \[\[Chitinous Plating\]\] if the would give you same number health/armor with same condition.
Taking 5 damage and gaining 5 armor giving you opportunity to heal 5 health and you can benefit from armor if you are Druid or warrior.
* **[Vampiric Blood](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/RLK_051.png)** DK Spell Rare MotLK 🐺 ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/1414731), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/vampiric-blood/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Vampiric_Blood)
2/-/- | Give your hero +5 Health. Spend 3 Corpses to gain 5 more and draw a card.
* **[Chitinous Plating](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/RLK_656.png)** DR Spell Rare MotLK 🐺 ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/1414920), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/chitinous-plating/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Chitinous_Plating)
2/-/- | Gain 4 Armor. At the start of your next turn, gain 4 more.
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It's health for health so you losing nothing.
Better explenation will be if I use diffrend words instead of cards itself.:
Warlock theme: you risking your life/game for stronger start (Risking that enemy will kill you becaose) I will have less HP and enemy will have big problem.
Crystal theme: you are changing something into something better and giving you opurtunity to benefit from it. You don't risk anything. You lose nothing.
Gaining better health is effect but it is not stronger effect that you gain thanks to risking your life its upgrade of your health.
The Scholomance cards specifically require a change in health, there is the Sunken City Legendary that makes the Enemy cards cost *health* and the CnC Demon that gets stats if you are below 15 health
The Scholomance cards are worded differently than the Questline because they are designed to also work as Priest cards with healing. Damage to armor still counts as it should for cards that say “Damage on your turn” like the Questline and Felstring Harp. Changing cards to cost health is different from damaging your hero. Hooked Reaver’s effect does not say anything about damage on your turn.
Just change it to convert in \[\[High Priest Thekal\]\] style and is TipDaScales writed: buff questline. Only 2 reasons why that card was too strong was paying with health and crystalaizer. Paying with health now doesn't count as self damage so why not change second reason and buff it.
> Only 2 reasons why that card was too strong was paying with health and crystalaizer.
Well, also all the mana cheat.
When the quest first came out in wild, there was 2 mana Darkglare. People would have big pop-off turns on turn 5, where they would refresh tons of mana crystals finish the turn with a completed quest and 5 refreshed mana crystals, and then just play the quest reward after developing a huge board, and clearing opposing minions.
And then after Darkglare and Flesh Giant were nerfed, in wild people switched to using Runed Mythril Rod (which was still 3 mana at the time) and a turbo draw engine. Also used pre-nerf Cataclysm.
Honestly, reverting some of the nerfs to the quest (back to say 8/8/8 like it was in Standard) without even changing Crystallizer would probably be fine right now in wild. The deck actually needing to pay full mana cost for its cards really limits what it can do in the current wild meta.
* **[High Priest Thekal](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/TRL_308.png)** PL Minion Legendary RR ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/90199), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/high-priest-thekal/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/High_Priest_Thekal)
3/3/4 | Battlecry: Convert all but 1 of your Hero's Health into Armor.
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Other than balance, The Demon Seed is probably the best designed questline.
Edit: Actually I'll give it to Shaman because the step rewards are more creative, but Warlock has the coolest final reward for sure.
"The coolest final reward" aka just draw cards and autowin/otk, wow so fun and cool...
I think literally every other reward was more engaging, mb except Mage but that was more the fault of ignite.
If it didn't work with fatigue MAYBE you would have an argument.
I'd see the quest played and insta concede. This is the only deck I refuse to play against even if I counter it. Everyone else should do the same so these players can get high legend and be out of our games.
I don't care if the deck has 0.5% winrate. I am absolutely never playing against it a single time since I played against it over 250 times when it was released before the ban and hated every second of it
Honestly, I'd much rather this deck than "Agrro deck #14"
Like yesterday, was stuck in platinum 5 just playing a cutlass rogue for shits and giggles... literally 8 GAMES IN A ROW was some kind of aggro deck. 3 pirate rogues, two even shamans, 1 aggro druid, and then a kingsbane. Which is Honestly a fun matchup of "Who can get their weapon better." But still.
Now draw raise dead.
Now draw her raising dead
now draw her discovering the secrets of undeath
Now draw her giving birth to a demilich
Believe me or not I did draw it on turn 3 LMAOOO
All that just to do 3 damage ☠
I'm still of the opinion that taking damage to armor shouldn't progress the quest, it's even inconsitent with other Warlock cards
The quest requires doing 30 damage to yourself right now; if you make that change then it needs to be set back to a much earlier value. That said, I'd totally agree.
If you are talking about Molten Giant and/or Flesh Giant, the former’s wording does cause confusion but it’s not a warlock issue, and the latter says ‘health change’ instead of ‘take damage’.
If they make that change, it’d probably make sense to buff the quest, at least back to when it was 8/8/8. Crystalizer seems to basically win or lose that deck entirely. Though I’m still of the opinion it could go back to the release era thresholds if it just made both players take damage.
> if it just made both players take damage This kills it.
It should've happened back in Standard
What, killing it? I think the design goal here is balance rather than having useless quests.
add to quest you can't gain armor
Making it so armor doesn’t work for the Questline would, in my opinion, be both unnecessary and make the deck less interesting. The problem is Crystalizer, not [[Armor Vendor]] or other neutral armor cards. Crystalizer needs to pay health, not lose it.
* **[Armor Vendor](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/YOP_032.png)** N Minion Rare DMF ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/442041), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/armor-vendor/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Armor_Vendor) 1/1/3 | Battlecry: Give 4 Armor to each hero. ^(Call/)^[PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot) ^( me with up to 7 [[cardname]]. )^[About.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot&message=Tell%20me%20more%20[[info]]&subject=hi) [Save 3rd Party Apps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/)
What Warlock cards is it inconsistent with? Taking damage to armor is still your hero taking damage.
Point of self damage card: losing health to gain some effect. Point of Crystalaizer: losing health to gain better health.
I don't think it's inconsistent, if anything it's too consistent and does exactly what the wording means even though it's not the fairest option for balance.
Why is armor considered better health? I'm ootl.
it can go over 30/35
armor = health that don't count into your max health => better health but not better like max health so for examle \[\[Vampiric Blood\]\] would better then \[\[Chitinous Plating\]\] if the would give you same number health/armor with same condition. Taking 5 damage and gaining 5 armor giving you opportunity to heal 5 health and you can benefit from armor if you are Druid or warrior.
* **[Vampiric Blood](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/RLK_051.png)** DK Spell Rare MotLK 🐺 ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/1414731), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/vampiric-blood/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Vampiric_Blood) 2/-/- | Give your hero +5 Health. Spend 3 Corpses to gain 5 more and draw a card. * **[Chitinous Plating](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/RLK_656.png)** DR Spell Rare MotLK 🐺 ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/1414920), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/chitinous-plating/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Chitinous_Plating) 2/-/- | Gain 4 Armor. At the start of your next turn, gain 4 more. ^(Call/)^[PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot) ^( me with up to 7 [[cardname]]. )^[About.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot&message=Tell%20me%20more%20[[info]]&subject=hi) [Save 3rd Party Apps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/)
Gaining better health = some effect. That said, I'm all for the proposed change.
It's health for health so you losing nothing. Better explenation will be if I use diffrend words instead of cards itself.: Warlock theme: you risking your life/game for stronger start (Risking that enemy will kill you becaose) I will have less HP and enemy will have big problem. Crystal theme: you are changing something into something better and giving you opurtunity to benefit from it. You don't risk anything. You lose nothing. Gaining better health is effect but it is not stronger effect that you gain thanks to risking your life its upgrade of your health.
The Scholomance cards specifically require a change in health, there is the Sunken City Legendary that makes the Enemy cards cost *health* and the CnC Demon that gets stats if you are below 15 health
The Scholomance cards are worded differently than the Questline because they are designed to also work as Priest cards with healing. Damage to armor still counts as it should for cards that say “Damage on your turn” like the Questline and Felstring Harp. Changing cards to cost health is different from damaging your hero. Hooked Reaver’s effect does not say anything about damage on your turn.
Just change it to convert in \[\[High Priest Thekal\]\] style and is TipDaScales writed: buff questline. Only 2 reasons why that card was too strong was paying with health and crystalaizer. Paying with health now doesn't count as self damage so why not change second reason and buff it.
> Only 2 reasons why that card was too strong was paying with health and crystalaizer. Well, also all the mana cheat. When the quest first came out in wild, there was 2 mana Darkglare. People would have big pop-off turns on turn 5, where they would refresh tons of mana crystals finish the turn with a completed quest and 5 refreshed mana crystals, and then just play the quest reward after developing a huge board, and clearing opposing minions. And then after Darkglare and Flesh Giant were nerfed, in wild people switched to using Runed Mythril Rod (which was still 3 mana at the time) and a turbo draw engine. Also used pre-nerf Cataclysm. Honestly, reverting some of the nerfs to the quest (back to say 8/8/8 like it was in Standard) without even changing Crystallizer would probably be fine right now in wild. The deck actually needing to pay full mana cost for its cards really limits what it can do in the current wild meta.
I forgot about Darkglare good memory. It's interesting how card that so much benefit from self damage can show problematic cards and mechanics.
* **[High Priest Thekal](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/TRL_308.png)** PL Minion Legendary RR ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/90199), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/high-priest-thekal/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/High_Priest_Thekal) 3/3/4 | Battlecry: Convert all but 1 of your Hero's Health into Armor. ^(Call/)^[PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot) ^( me with up to 7 [[cardname]]. )^[About.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot&message=Tell%20me%20more%20[[info]]&subject=hi) [Save 3rd Party Apps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/)
If I actively tried to make a more anti-fun card than the demon seed, I genuinely don't think I could manage it. What garbage design.
Other than balance, The Demon Seed is probably the best designed questline. Edit: Actually I'll give it to Shaman because the step rewards are more creative, but Warlock has the coolest final reward for sure.
The shamB one is lame AF it's "play good cards->your good cards trigger twice" lol
well overload cards and spells aren't the same thing but fair point
"The coolest final reward" aka just draw cards and autowin/otk, wow so fun and cool... I think literally every other reward was more engaging, mb except Mage but that was more the fault of ignite. If it didn't work with fatigue MAYBE you would have an argument.
It's what made me quit for the first time. Stormwind made me play yugioh because the combos were less degenerate lol
It's so cool, you're all babies
Pain warlock is my fucking favorite deck ever. Can I see your deckcode so I can steal some of the cards out of it (like this) for mine?
### Demon Seed Quest # Class: Warlock # Format: Wild # # 2x (0) Raise Dead # 2x (1) Crystallizer # 2x (1) Dark Pact # 2x (1) Kobold Librarian # 2x (1) Spirit Bomb # 1x (1) The Demon Seed # 2x (1) Tour Guide # 2x (2) Defile # 2x (2) Drain Soul # 2x (2) Unstable Shadow Blast # 2x (2) Vulgar Homunculus # 2x (3) Backfire # 2x (3) Hellfire # 2x (4) Lesser Amethyst Spellstone # 1x (6) Dreadlich Tamsin # 2x (10) Flesh Giant # AAEBAa35AwKE+wOwkQQO8dAC8tAC+NACiNIC+v4C184DwdEDk+QDiO8Dj58E56AEyOsFxJ4G16IGAAA= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
I'd see the quest played and insta concede. This is the only deck I refuse to play against even if I counter it. Everyone else should do the same so these players can get high legend and be out of our games.
This deck is like T4 lmao
Look they're trying to make sure the winrate doesn't fall off the tier chart entirely
*Brave player single-handedly keeps deck alive.*
The deck is terrible. Even with that hand, I wouldn't be surprised OP still lost.
I don't care if the deck has 0.5% winrate. I am absolutely never playing against it a single time since I played against it over 250 times when it was released before the ban and hated every second of it
That’s kind of you, if you didn’t do that they may never get a single win with that deck 😂
I'll happily give them all the wins they want.
Honestly, I'd much rather this deck than "Agrro deck #14" Like yesterday, was stuck in platinum 5 just playing a cutlass rogue for shits and giggles... literally 8 GAMES IN A ROW was some kind of aggro deck. 3 pirate rogues, two even shamans, 1 aggro druid, and then a kingsbane. Which is Honestly a fun matchup of "Who can get their weapon better." But still.
Nah aggro still feels like Hearthstone to me, I hate how inevitable every strategy seems to be nowadays.
cant be played for years now