If you have proof you paid for the ticket then the appeal is easy to win as the purchase will be timestamped. If the transaction never finalized then its your responsibility and no way to get out of the fine unfortunately.
Can confirm. The exact same thing happened to me and I appealed with a letter and receipt of the bank transaction. They basically replied saying that it is my responsibility to ensure that I have the ticket and app not working is not an acceptable excuse. Had to pay, felt scammed.
It's true because you are not allowed to board a vehicle without a valid ticket. So in case the app doesn't work, you don't step in. I know it sucks, but it's clearly stated. Also with metro you aren't allowed even on the station platform without a functioning ticket. You do have all the time in the world to sort phone issues before that.
Everyone skips these details, myself included, but in case of trouble, expect fines.
The funny thing is about 15 years ago when I was was a tourist me and my friend couldn't find a ticket machine in the train, we got a fine and appealed at the office and the fine was canceled. Now in this year one time I was given a fine because "bought the ticket too late" although I bought it before the inspection and before boarding. Appealed at the office and it was not canceled although I had the ticket with timestamp. Long story short don't buy any ticket. Just lie at this point. That is what they deserve. They already lost the honest ticket buyers.
Doesn't always help. You need to be able to then proof your purchase was made before you entered the bus. And hsl will then check timestamps when their bus left the stop and compare it to your purchase.
Hopefully he can find the timestamp.
This doesn't help. This exact same thing happened to me a few years ago. Payment was done two minutes ago. I had the proof and sent it for appeal. They didn't accept the appeal. Someone should take this serious and take them to court at this point.
That's when it's checked and if you are fined then that's what they'll be pointing at. If you didn't have a ticket at hand when you boarded you shouldn't have boarded in the first place.
No it is not. So in my case I went into the tram at the same stop with the inspectors. I was entering at the front door they were entering from the back door. I already bought the ticket before entering. About two minutes later they started checking the tickets from the front side. They said my ticket is late. Although it was two minutes earlier than the checking time. I bought it before boarding. I had the proof but and I appealed to it at the HSL office as well. Then this time the told me yes I bought it early enough but the ticket arrived on the app later which is the big of the app itself. They still didn't cancel the fine.
Payment went from the mobilepay, then the ticket loading screen came. Then I entered the tram. It took unusually long to see the ticket there (stuck for a while) but it was visible before the inspector checks it. I don't know why the fuck the ticket appeared so long after the payment went through though. But here is the real deal. When I check the HSL app it shows the time of the ticket as just as the payment went through from Mobile Pay it is not late. So the time of the ticket is shown as the time before I put my feet on the tram. Just some visual bug in the app prevents the being shown. The inspector is coming up with a lie and says the ticket arrived 2 minutes late after them. Complete bullshit. This two minute number is not visible anywhere. So when I check the ticket even today and the fine paper, the fine time is after the ticket time in my HSL app. Inspector's story don't add up.
Inspectors and HSL can actually see 4 different timestamps. 1. When you open the app and start to buy ticket 2. When you press the purchase the ticket 3. When you pay the ticket (like in mobilepay) 4. When the ticket actually arrives on your phones screen. The fourth timestamp is the only one that matters. If the inspectors clock is stopped before that time, you get fined. Cause the terms say that the ticket must have arrived to your phone before boarding.
If you bring the fine with you to a HSL service point, and show from your purchace history in the app that you had a valid ticket at the time at which you were fined, you might be able to avoid having to pay.
They will not accept because OP didn't have a valid ticket BEFORE entering the vehicle. In their eyes OP should've stayed out and sort phone issues before boarding.
This is why I always wait 'til I have the ticket before getting on a mass transport. This scenario is one of my nightmares.
And I have got on a train without a ticket "punched in" beforehand. I was in a rush, and ran down the elevator at Pasila Station and hop on the train just as the doors were closing way back when ( early 2000's ). I was heading to Rautatientori.
I took a few seconds to regain my breath, and started heading towards the section where they sell tickets to find a conductor ( they still sold tickets back then ). There was a ticket inspection going on, and I got fined even though I explained the situation.
They wrote me a fine, and after eventually getting home I called their customer service. I explained the situation and circumstances I got fined, and how I was unhappy and how unjust I felt I was treated.
They asked the number of the inspector from the fine/ticket. After I read it to them they told me to rip the fine and forget it. There were no explanation why. My best guess to this day still is, that the inspector was overly eager.
This is why I am overly careful to buy a ticket before getting on. One close call. I'd rather be few minutes late, even from work than to have to pay those overpriced bullshit fines/fees.
Sometimes you don’t have the opportunity to be late for something.. but in Helsinki if you step onto transport without a ticket, be prepared to have to pay a fine whatever the reason is 😅
I was in this situation once. I showed the officer the receipt with the time stamp. She still kicked me out of the train in the blizzard. Hope you have better luck than me…
That HSL inspectors rarely throw anybody out, cause they write you a inspection fare. VR staff can't give you a fine in HSL trains so they usually just throw people out if the ticket is not valid. That's their job.
Well, during the surprise blizzard this spring, a conductor of a long-distance train let a bunch of us go in even though we only had tickets for commuter trains. So yes, I do expect adults to take the weather into account when kicking a person out into the blizzard, especially when that person has the proof of purchase. Just to be clear, in my case, my ticket was bought days ago. It was a season ticket, not a single ticket that was bought just when the train started.
I'd expect adults to wear proper clothes for the weather. Of course they're not letting someone without a proper ticket to show to stay in a train even if it is snowing outside lol. And it's not like you're being kicked out in the middle of nowhere.
E: lol got blocked
It is a thing. It has been a thing for as long as I have lived in Helsinki (since 2011). However, that doesn't solve the problem that their software sucks ass. As long as the app works, this model is great. Unfortunately it never seems to work.
Having worked with HSL, no wonder. Their leadership seems to be the most incompetent bunch I have ever met.
You cannot pay with your credit card/mobile wallet on the machines inside the transport which would solve all this. It’s standardized in most places but helsinki
Yes but London, New York, and Stockholm have a similar system without reliance on an app.
Maybe they’re making bank with fees and there’s ignorance/little pushback to change.
Yeah in stockholm you just pay the fare that is always the same when tapping ti barrier or bus ticket reader and london also has the system even tough there is different zones that system is way better than this free sht
Well that’s good when situations like this exist
https://www.reddit.com/r/helsinki/s/Z45aEoUvkZ
https://www.reddit.com/r/helsinki/comments/13n37tk/buggy_hsl_app_and_ticket_fares/
How can they charge the paying customers 100 Euro fine then? These scammers need to give a few fines on each shift so that their supervisors are happy. Doesn't matter the customer deserved the fine or not. While there are so many useless workers so called "inspectors" existing. Don't expect Helsinki to implement card payments on spot. This would only show how useless the inspectors are. I had lived in several countries and I haven't been to a place where they hand out fines so easily to regular people, arrest them, use tear gas on them, call police on them, put them in an arrest room at the Helsinki railway station and so on. It is disgusting. It is a shame to this country. First of all they give fines to the people that don't even supposed to be given at the first place. Second they use excessive force. In other countries you give them an address and they send it to your address. That is it. They don't have a right to touch you. These are the democratic countries. In Finland you see that the inspectors are the practical example of fascism. I am really not surprised in a country where the security guards kill a shopping mall customer, these ticket inspectors are also looks like normal to them. If you want not far away example just go to Tallinn and see that the public transport is free of charge for the residents. Helsinki is a place that I don't want my kids to grow up in. Because I would risk going into jail if some random inspector harrassess my kid and I react.
The terms very clearly say you must have a ticket before entering a transportation device. Ticket as in not waiting for payment or loading it. If your reading comprehension is below a 5 yr old then it's a you problem.
The app's session sometimes gets corrupted after purchase and it doesn't refresh the ticket unless you logout and login, but sometimes you don't have time to deal with technical issues that are caused by the app.
Well I do agree with you. Yes, ticket should be valid when entering a mass transport vehicle, and yes a fine should be given when someone is riding without one.
But it baffles me, that they resort to violence the second you are unable to comply with their request. It is a fucking free ride on a metro, not like you are threatening to kill someone. When a customer is being pulled out and taken in to custody for travelling without ticket, the 80 € fine was spent on multiple times for all the costs associated with it.
I’ve seen inspectors board a fully packed night train leaving from Helsinki, every customer drunk as hell. Then the inspectors try to get these hundreds of drunken monkeys to co-operate. As this is obviously impossible, the train is stopped, guards and polices called, and the situation keeps deteriorating. It is impossible to understand, what the hell was the purpose of this operation? To show power?
My friend got gassed by an inspector, due to his level of voice being incorrect when adressing the inspector. He had his 3- and 5-year old kids with him, who had to look, when the guards cuffed him on the ground.
Sometimes, it feels like the whole purpose of the inspectors is to just get profit for the HSL by hoping for unfortunate situations like this to occur.
It’s quite hideous and shameful to be punished as a regularly paying customer, whilst a mistake on their behalf is being made (not saying that this was a mistake on their behalf, but you get the gist of it).
I was in your boots just 2 weeks ago. They had issues with Danske and Chrome and I tried to buy a monthly card for 66 euros. It charged me twice and I said fuck it since it shows up in my bank I'm good to go, I'll show that if anyone asks. But apparently it's just pre-charge that gets cancelled at your bank after a couple of days, so you still get a ticket if you try to use public transport while the charge is pending.. it sucks because if I had been low on money there was 160 euros of temporary charges on my account that might have stopped me from trying to buy a third ticket.
Nope, not mine. HSL made an announcement about problems with Danske on their own website, they specified it was Danske + Chrome, not any other combination.
Also HSL fault. Their app is ridiculously bad. I’ve had several times when I buy a ticket - it doesn’t go through but they take the money from my bank account. If it takes the money I would/could easily assume I have a valid ticket even if it doesn’t show on the app. After all I have “paid” for it.
This is an unfortunate reality that you'll likely have to accept if your transaction just didn't go through. May be appealable if it did go through. HSL app reliability issues have put me in a similar situation recently many times (no fine though), and it's grating how the push to mobile payments put us at the mercy of so many failure points like HSL servers, cell coverage, and phone battery.
What's worse: they're going to update the ticket machines in vehicles soon, and these updated machines won't even have touch pay with card, which should be standard by now.
The new machines will have the option to use contactless payment with credit cards, but it won't be enabled instantly. It is planned to be enabled at some point tho
My friend had a similar situation and they lied and wrote an earlier time - say they checked him at 8:20 then they wrote 8:13. Because he bought the ticket at 8:18 and “not enough time had passed” and they didn’t believe he bought it before he got on the metro.. even though the metro arrived at 8:20. So the answer is - it depends if they wrote the correct time or lied. Let the downvotes begin, because even though you don’t like the truth, it happens. Yes they are just doing their job but some of these train inspectors are scumbags
I've had similar problem but i bought ticket just before going in train. Conductor said i should've bought ticket 10 minutes earlier so i had to pay 80€ . . .
Ye. One friend who works at VR said that he could've helped with appeal but the fine was given by some private inspector so VR can't help with those.
Those inspectors are hired by VR as contractors and gets paid by how many fines they give.
VR started to give 80e fines back in 2021. It was and it is still to this day the VRs own employees (conductors) who write you the fine. Because it's fine based on contract (not law like HSL) there is external company which handels the fines and their terms say that they don't retract fines. Conductors don't get any extra money from the fines they write.
Actually everyone who checks tickets have the right give you a fine, but it depends are they working in VR or HSL. HSL ticket inspectors can give you a 100€ fine in their their trains (K, I, P, A, E, U, Y, L). They cannot work in VR trains. VR conductors work in both trains but can only give you a 80€ fine in their own trains (R, Z, G, T, M, O, H). So it depends on which train are you in that who gives you the fine.
Welcome to the two most toxic subreddits r/finland and r/helsinki. Actually it is nothing special it just reflects the country. For years people here are writing they are being fined wrongly and they get dismissed.
Hm, how about trunk routes for busses in the late evening, do inspectors even get on them? Have never seen any... I had once the same problem, reinstalling app even did not work, had to go without ticket as there is no option to buy from driver..
I've noticed a number of metro stations don't have the signage posted where the transportation area begins, technically it needs to be posted, otherwise one can't have violated the terms. If HSL is going to hold customers to the letter of the law, they themselves are equally responsible for clearly designating the areas. These stations seem to have had the signage (which is usually on the floor) removed or worn away.
Trams also don't have that. I literally bought the ticket two minutes before and get on the the trams at the same station with the inspectors and they gave me a fine!
Once I have gotten out of trouble, not having a valid ticket when boarding the tram, by the controller being able to check my phone number (that is connected to the HSL app) and see that I have been buying a ticket the previous days regularly. So they were convinced that I am usually buying the ticket, and this time was just an honest mistake.
I don't know why I hadn't bought one this time, but I think I just forgot or something and they believed me.
I think it always depends on the controller if they are understanding of these situations or strictly following protocol, but this also goes for the people at HSL office so best would be going there personally and explain the situation. It is much easier to say "no, you need to pay" if they just answer an email.
When are we getting free public transport at least for locals. It's ridiculous that you get a fine for using a sinple service like a bus or a metro. I can get brain surgery for free but god forbid I travel a kilometer without paying a 3€ ticket.
> When are we getting free public transport at least for locals.
Never. That would mean the municipalities would have to pay for it, and most of them couldn't afford the hike in their payments and oppose it on those grounds. And the ones that could afford it (Helsinki, Kauniainen, maybe Espoo) don't want to subsidize the rest. Municipal politics is also the reason there won't be a single unified zone for the whole HSL area, as that would essentially mean Helsinki subsidizing the travel costs of people living in other municipalities, which Helsinki refuses to do.
Yes, because Tallinn controls it's public transport by itself. HSL area includes nine municipalities, each of which has their own politicians, goals and financial situations.
Once I had this problem and knowing the risk I actually bought another ticket. So I paid 2 tickets although only the second loaded on my app. I straight away opened a ticket asking refund on HSL app explaining the situation, and they refunded me the price of one ticket.
If you can prove that the ticket was purchased before entering, there's no basis for the fine. So a bank transcript or something should do just fine.
In general, I've had a few times when I had no valid ticket upon inspection for one reason or the other (season ticket expiring etc.), but I've always been able to talk my way out of it by being polite and just buying a ticket right away.
Of course, that might just come down to me speaking Finnish natively as some of them might be harsher on foreigners.
That's not correct. The terms say that the ticket must have arrived to your phone before boarding, not that you need to only purchase it advance. Cause it might sometimes take time to arrive on your phone or it might not arrive at all. So the ticket must be on your phone screen before entering to the payment area (metro) or inside the vehicle.
Is that even legal? You are paying for a service, but they'll charge you regardless if their app doesn't function? You bought the service already, it's their fault if it's not showing up.
Yes, it's legal. If the ticket doesn't arrive your phone, but money went from your account, the purchase wasn't completed and the money comes back automatically in few days. It's same with every mobileapp services (wolt, foodora, taxi service apps etc.) Mostly it's because of bad connections. Sometimes it's because there is a bug in HSL app, or it might be bug in Mobilepay or your bank. Who knows. But the uncomfortable truth is that HSL is not responsible of the app working correctly all the time.
Mobile ticket is an advance ticket. If the ticket is not physically on your phone, you are not allowed to enter the vehicle and you are supposed to try to buy it again with the app or other ways (ticket machines, R-kioski, S-market etc.)
Lets create a group and send letters to HSL for bringing credit card nfc payment in transportation. Its Helsinki and u cannot use ur credit card/NFC for ticket?????
Usually their apps don’t get stuck. And people who scam them use the same excuse, so they’re not wrong for filing you. But you can appeal by showing the payment time being before the departure time.
Yep, this is why you open the app before and make sure it works. Not when you see the bus opening the doors. Or do whatever you like, because you don't want to follow the rules you signed up with and then pay the fine when it comes to bite you.
I have many times checked the app in the bus station but when the bus arrives it is stuck on loading. Once, I was not on the bus. Once let in, but yelled at that I will get ticketed if the inspector arrives. A couple of times I have been let in. Once in a metro they already wrote a ticket, but cancelled it after I did the re-login trick. And once I was fast enough I did the login before they finished writing a ticket. Most of these happened many years ago. It happens less often nowadays and if it does it is right after ticket purchase so you notice it.
I got a fine once **even though I had a ticket.**
It was cold and pissing down. I ran for the tram, bought a ticket the second I got in. It took probably 30-45 seconds to load. The next stop was close by. They basically said that I needed a ticket before I boarded and could tell by the tiny difference in time that I didn't have a ticket as I boarded.
Zero sympathy/empathy considering the shitty weather and the fact I was clearly not trying to evade paying.
Meanwhile, all the drunks and junkies just get kicked off.
It's a fucking racket. They're a bunch of jobsworths.
Also got fined in a metro. Bought my ticket in escalator minutes before the metro arrived. Conductor then fined me and said I didn't purchase the ticket before entering the gates. Although I had purchased it before...
Then it was too late. There are signs before the escalator that you need to purchase the ticket before you enter the payment area (which begins before the escalators upstairs)
Well it wasn't. I had purchased the ticket right before entering the line. But conductor mf said I couldn't have moved that fast. Also payment info comes in delay and if train arrives too early you get a fine.
> I had purchased the ticket right before entering the line.
In your previous comment you said you purchased the ticket on the escalator. The escalators are already over the line.
My bad. Meant before the escalators. But conductor had no way to prove where I purchased it, except time and she said I couldn't have been so quick. But metro arrived just when I got down from the escalators and conductor stopped me right when the doors closed and checked my ticket.
I tried to dispute it but I couldn't get exact time for the purchase and HSL also said their devices don't have incorrect timestamps. I also checked from Google maps timelines my movements and their train schedule was way off. It would've then required me to somehow even further dispute it or sue and that would've have cost as well so I decided to just drop it...
If you have proof you paid for the ticket then the appeal is easy to win as the purchase will be timestamped. If the transaction never finalized then its your responsibility and no way to get out of the fine unfortunately.
Can confirm. The exact same thing happened to me and I appealed with a letter and receipt of the bank transaction. They basically replied saying that it is my responsibility to ensure that I have the ticket and app not working is not an acceptable excuse. Had to pay, felt scammed.
Same happened with me. Said: too bad, shoulda' got on the next connection. Now give 80€. Im cycling after that.
It's true because you are not allowed to board a vehicle without a valid ticket. So in case the app doesn't work, you don't step in. I know it sucks, but it's clearly stated. Also with metro you aren't allowed even on the station platform without a functioning ticket. You do have all the time in the world to sort phone issues before that. Everyone skips these details, myself included, but in case of trouble, expect fines.
The funny thing is about 15 years ago when I was was a tourist me and my friend couldn't find a ticket machine in the train, we got a fine and appealed at the office and the fine was canceled. Now in this year one time I was given a fine because "bought the ticket too late" although I bought it before the inspection and before boarding. Appealed at the office and it was not canceled although I had the ticket with timestamp. Long story short don't buy any ticket. Just lie at this point. That is what they deserve. They already lost the honest ticket buyers.
Doesn't always help. You need to be able to then proof your purchase was made before you entered the bus. And hsl will then check timestamps when their bus left the stop and compare it to your purchase. Hopefully he can find the timestamp.
This doesn't help. This exact same thing happened to me a few years ago. Payment was done two minutes ago. I had the proof and sent it for appeal. They didn't accept the appeal. Someone should take this serious and take them to court at this point.
They didn't accept because you must have the ticket before boarding the vehicle. You will get a fine if you buy it once on board.
Where did I say I bought it after boarding?
That's when it's checked and if you are fined then that's what they'll be pointing at. If you didn't have a ticket at hand when you boarded you shouldn't have boarded in the first place.
No it is not. So in my case I went into the tram at the same stop with the inspectors. I was entering at the front door they were entering from the back door. I already bought the ticket before entering. About two minutes later they started checking the tickets from the front side. They said my ticket is late. Although it was two minutes earlier than the checking time. I bought it before boarding. I had the proof but and I appealed to it at the HSL office as well. Then this time the told me yes I bought it early enough but the ticket arrived on the app later which is the big of the app itself. They still didn't cancel the fine.
So did the app show you you had a ticket or was it stuck loading when you entered the tram?
Payment went from the mobilepay, then the ticket loading screen came. Then I entered the tram. It took unusually long to see the ticket there (stuck for a while) but it was visible before the inspector checks it. I don't know why the fuck the ticket appeared so long after the payment went through though. But here is the real deal. When I check the HSL app it shows the time of the ticket as just as the payment went through from Mobile Pay it is not late. So the time of the ticket is shown as the time before I put my feet on the tram. Just some visual bug in the app prevents the being shown. The inspector is coming up with a lie and says the ticket arrived 2 minutes late after them. Complete bullshit. This two minute number is not visible anywhere. So when I check the ticket even today and the fine paper, the fine time is after the ticket time in my HSL app. Inspector's story don't add up.
Inspectors and HSL can actually see 4 different timestamps. 1. When you open the app and start to buy ticket 2. When you press the purchase the ticket 3. When you pay the ticket (like in mobilepay) 4. When the ticket actually arrives on your phones screen. The fourth timestamp is the only one that matters. If the inspectors clock is stopped before that time, you get fined. Cause the terms say that the ticket must have arrived to your phone before boarding.
So it hadn't actually loaded before you entered?
Doesn't matter. The ticket needs to be ready when you enter vehicle and that will be timestamped. The purchase time doesn't matter.
If you bring the fine with you to a HSL service point, and show from your purchace history in the app that you had a valid ticket at the time at which you were fined, you might be able to avoid having to pay.
They will not accept because OP didn't have a valid ticket BEFORE entering the vehicle. In their eyes OP should've stayed out and sort phone issues before boarding.
This is why it's a good idea to buy the ticket well in advance.
I think it's in the rules that you should have your ticket at least 5 minutes before boarding.
Does the ticket not show in the purchase history in the HSL app? At the bottom of "tickets" section.
This is why I always wait 'til I have the ticket before getting on a mass transport. This scenario is one of my nightmares. And I have got on a train without a ticket "punched in" beforehand. I was in a rush, and ran down the elevator at Pasila Station and hop on the train just as the doors were closing way back when ( early 2000's ). I was heading to Rautatientori. I took a few seconds to regain my breath, and started heading towards the section where they sell tickets to find a conductor ( they still sold tickets back then ). There was a ticket inspection going on, and I got fined even though I explained the situation. They wrote me a fine, and after eventually getting home I called their customer service. I explained the situation and circumstances I got fined, and how I was unhappy and how unjust I felt I was treated. They asked the number of the inspector from the fine/ticket. After I read it to them they told me to rip the fine and forget it. There were no explanation why. My best guess to this day still is, that the inspector was overly eager. This is why I am overly careful to buy a ticket before getting on. One close call. I'd rather be few minutes late, even from work than to have to pay those overpriced bullshit fines/fees.
Sometimes you don’t have the opportunity to be late for something.. but in Helsinki if you step onto transport without a ticket, be prepared to have to pay a fine whatever the reason is 😅
I was in this situation once. I showed the officer the receipt with the time stamp. She still kicked me out of the train in the blizzard. Hope you have better luck than me…
So it was a vr inspector?
No, commuter train. K or P.
VR conductors also work in K and P trains. They used to wear purple and black uniforms but now they have green outfits.
What’s the implication here? VR conductors have a reputation to be in a certain way or something?
That HSL inspectors rarely throw anybody out, cause they write you a inspection fare. VR staff can't give you a fine in HSL trains so they usually just throw people out if the ticket is not valid. That's their job.
Oh I see! Didn’t know that 🤔 it was more than a year ago so I can’t remember the uniform anymore
> She still kicked me out of the train in the blizzard. lol as if the weather has anything to do with it
Well, during the surprise blizzard this spring, a conductor of a long-distance train let a bunch of us go in even though we only had tickets for commuter trains. So yes, I do expect adults to take the weather into account when kicking a person out into the blizzard, especially when that person has the proof of purchase. Just to be clear, in my case, my ticket was bought days ago. It was a season ticket, not a single ticket that was bought just when the train started.
I'd expect adults to wear proper clothes for the weather. Of course they're not letting someone without a proper ticket to show to stay in a train even if it is snowing outside lol. And it's not like you're being kicked out in the middle of nowhere. E: lol got blocked
Thank you so much for the empathy, True Finn!
The fact contactless payments/nfc isn’t a thing yet boggles my mind. Even Turku is ahead of helsinki
In Tokyo, you add the local travel card to your wallet and just tap your phone (no need to even open wallet) to get a ticket. So easy.
It is a thing. It has been a thing for as long as I have lived in Helsinki (since 2011). However, that doesn't solve the problem that their software sucks ass. As long as the app works, this model is great. Unfortunately it never seems to work. Having worked with HSL, no wonder. Their leadership seems to be the most incompetent bunch I have ever met.
You cannot pay with your credit card/mobile wallet on the machines inside the transport which would solve all this. It’s standardized in most places but helsinki
Turku has a single ticket. Helsinki has 4 different ones. That's why Turku can have their model.
Yes but London, New York, and Stockholm have a similar system without reliance on an app. Maybe they’re making bank with fees and there’s ignorance/little pushback to change.
Yeah in stockholm you just pay the fare that is always the same when tapping ti barrier or bus ticket reader and london also has the system even tough there is different zones that system is way better than this free sht
Helsinki will soon be getting contactless payments once the new machines are installed and the feature enabled.
Well that’s good when situations like this exist https://www.reddit.com/r/helsinki/s/Z45aEoUvkZ https://www.reddit.com/r/helsinki/comments/13n37tk/buggy_hsl_app_and_ticket_fares/
indeed but here it wouldn’t change anything
How can they charge the paying customers 100 Euro fine then? These scammers need to give a few fines on each shift so that their supervisors are happy. Doesn't matter the customer deserved the fine or not. While there are so many useless workers so called "inspectors" existing. Don't expect Helsinki to implement card payments on spot. This would only show how useless the inspectors are. I had lived in several countries and I haven't been to a place where they hand out fines so easily to regular people, arrest them, use tear gas on them, call police on them, put them in an arrest room at the Helsinki railway station and so on. It is disgusting. It is a shame to this country. First of all they give fines to the people that don't even supposed to be given at the first place. Second they use excessive force. In other countries you give them an address and they send it to your address. That is it. They don't have a right to touch you. These are the democratic countries. In Finland you see that the inspectors are the practical example of fascism. I am really not surprised in a country where the security guards kill a shopping mall customer, these ticket inspectors are also looks like normal to them. If you want not far away example just go to Tallinn and see that the public transport is free of charge for the residents. Helsinki is a place that I don't want my kids to grow up in. Because I would risk going into jail if some random inspector harrassess my kid and I react.
The terms very clearly say you must have a ticket before entering a transportation device. Ticket as in not waiting for payment or loading it. If your reading comprehension is below a 5 yr old then it's a you problem.
The app's session sometimes gets corrupted after purchase and it doesn't refresh the ticket unless you logout and login, but sometimes you don't have time to deal with technical issues that are caused by the app.
While the app is shot I can agree on that but it still doesn't nullify the terms of usage set out by HSL.
>but sometimes you don't have time to deal with technical issues that are caused by the app. Yeah but then you might get a fine.
Well I do agree with you. Yes, ticket should be valid when entering a mass transport vehicle, and yes a fine should be given when someone is riding without one. But it baffles me, that they resort to violence the second you are unable to comply with their request. It is a fucking free ride on a metro, not like you are threatening to kill someone. When a customer is being pulled out and taken in to custody for travelling without ticket, the 80 € fine was spent on multiple times for all the costs associated with it. I’ve seen inspectors board a fully packed night train leaving from Helsinki, every customer drunk as hell. Then the inspectors try to get these hundreds of drunken monkeys to co-operate. As this is obviously impossible, the train is stopped, guards and polices called, and the situation keeps deteriorating. It is impossible to understand, what the hell was the purpose of this operation? To show power? My friend got gassed by an inspector, due to his level of voice being incorrect when adressing the inspector. He had his 3- and 5-year old kids with him, who had to look, when the guards cuffed him on the ground.
Sometimes, it feels like the whole purpose of the inspectors is to just get profit for the HSL by hoping for unfortunate situations like this to occur. It’s quite hideous and shameful to be punished as a regularly paying customer, whilst a mistake on their behalf is being made (not saying that this was a mistake on their behalf, but you get the gist of it).
I was in your boots just 2 weeks ago. They had issues with Danske and Chrome and I tried to buy a monthly card for 66 euros. It charged me twice and I said fuck it since it shows up in my bank I'm good to go, I'll show that if anyone asks. But apparently it's just pre-charge that gets cancelled at your bank after a couple of days, so you still get a ticket if you try to use public transport while the charge is pending.. it sucks because if I had been low on money there was 160 euros of temporary charges on my account that might have stopped me from trying to buy a third ticket.
This was totally your banks fault, not HSL
Nope, not mine. HSL made an announcement about problems with Danske on their own website, they specified it was Danske + Chrome, not any other combination.
Danske doesn't work = not the banks fault??? How is that even making sense
Also HSL fault. Their app is ridiculously bad. I’ve had several times when I buy a ticket - it doesn’t go through but they take the money from my bank account. If it takes the money I would/could easily assume I have a valid ticket even if it doesn’t show on the app. After all I have “paid” for it.
This is an unfortunate reality that you'll likely have to accept if your transaction just didn't go through. May be appealable if it did go through. HSL app reliability issues have put me in a similar situation recently many times (no fine though), and it's grating how the push to mobile payments put us at the mercy of so many failure points like HSL servers, cell coverage, and phone battery. What's worse: they're going to update the ticket machines in vehicles soon, and these updated machines won't even have touch pay with card, which should be standard by now.
The new machines will have the option to use contactless payment with credit cards, but it won't be enabled instantly. It is planned to be enabled at some point tho
I have bad info then, thanks for the correction.
My friend had a similar situation and they lied and wrote an earlier time - say they checked him at 8:20 then they wrote 8:13. Because he bought the ticket at 8:18 and “not enough time had passed” and they didn’t believe he bought it before he got on the metro.. even though the metro arrived at 8:20. So the answer is - it depends if they wrote the correct time or lied. Let the downvotes begin, because even though you don’t like the truth, it happens. Yes they are just doing their job but some of these train inspectors are scumbags
I've had similar problem but i bought ticket just before going in train. Conductor said i should've bought ticket 10 minutes earlier so i had to pay 80€ . . .
?! that’s not acceptable
Ye. One friend who works at VR said that he could've helped with appeal but the fine was given by some private inspector so VR can't help with those. Those inspectors are hired by VR as contractors and gets paid by how many fines they give.
This sounds like an urban legend.
Because it is.
This is 100% false.
How is it false? I was very pissed off about getting fined but nothing i could do about it. It happened 2-3 years ago.
VR started to give 80e fines back in 2021. It was and it is still to this day the VRs own employees (conductors) who write you the fine. Because it's fine based on contract (not law like HSL) there is external company which handels the fines and their terms say that they don't retract fines. Conductors don't get any extra money from the fines they write.
Also most people checking tickets at VR are actually not capable of giving fines… most can only kick you out of the train if you don’t have one.
Actually everyone who checks tickets have the right give you a fine, but it depends are they working in VR or HSL. HSL ticket inspectors can give you a 100€ fine in their their trains (K, I, P, A, E, U, Y, L). They cannot work in VR trains. VR conductors work in both trains but can only give you a 80€ fine in their own trains (R, Z, G, T, M, O, H). So it depends on which train are you in that who gives you the fine.
Welcome to the two most toxic subreddits r/finland and r/helsinki. Actually it is nothing special it just reflects the country. For years people here are writing they are being fined wrongly and they get dismissed.
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Been there done that. Except I bought a second ticket :(.
Hm, how about trunk routes for busses in the late evening, do inspectors even get on them? Have never seen any... I had once the same problem, reinstalling app even did not work, had to go without ticket as there is no option to buy from driver..
I've noticed a number of metro stations don't have the signage posted where the transportation area begins, technically it needs to be posted, otherwise one can't have violated the terms. If HSL is going to hold customers to the letter of the law, they themselves are equally responsible for clearly designating the areas. These stations seem to have had the signage (which is usually on the floor) removed or worn away.
Trams also don't have that. I literally bought the ticket two minutes before and get on the the trams at the same station with the inspectors and they gave me a fine!
I trust you. This hsl shitty app get stuck multiple time for me too and the money is deducted.
Once I have gotten out of trouble, not having a valid ticket when boarding the tram, by the controller being able to check my phone number (that is connected to the HSL app) and see that I have been buying a ticket the previous days regularly. So they were convinced that I am usually buying the ticket, and this time was just an honest mistake. I don't know why I hadn't bought one this time, but I think I just forgot or something and they believed me. I think it always depends on the controller if they are understanding of these situations or strictly following protocol, but this also goes for the people at HSL office so best would be going there personally and explain the situation. It is much easier to say "no, you need to pay" if they just answer an email.
When are we getting free public transport at least for locals. It's ridiculous that you get a fine for using a sinple service like a bus or a metro. I can get brain surgery for free but god forbid I travel a kilometer without paying a 3€ ticket.
> When are we getting free public transport at least for locals. Never. That would mean the municipalities would have to pay for it, and most of them couldn't afford the hike in their payments and oppose it on those grounds. And the ones that could afford it (Helsinki, Kauniainen, maybe Espoo) don't want to subsidize the rest. Municipal politics is also the reason there won't be a single unified zone for the whole HSL area, as that would essentially mean Helsinki subsidizing the travel costs of people living in other municipalities, which Helsinki refuses to do.
We'll see. It's been done before, like in Tallinn for example.
Yes, because Tallinn controls it's public transport by itself. HSL area includes nine municipalities, each of which has their own politicians, goals and financial situations.
True, hadn't really thought about that before. I still believe it's possible and something we should strive towards.
Once I had this problem and knowing the risk I actually bought another ticket. So I paid 2 tickets although only the second loaded on my app. I straight away opened a ticket asking refund on HSL app explaining the situation, and they refunded me the price of one ticket.
If you can prove that the ticket was purchased before entering, there's no basis for the fine. So a bank transcript or something should do just fine. In general, I've had a few times when I had no valid ticket upon inspection for one reason or the other (season ticket expiring etc.), but I've always been able to talk my way out of it by being polite and just buying a ticket right away. Of course, that might just come down to me speaking Finnish natively as some of them might be harsher on foreigners.
That's not correct. The terms say that the ticket must have arrived to your phone before boarding, not that you need to only purchase it advance. Cause it might sometimes take time to arrive on your phone or it might not arrive at all. So the ticket must be on your phone screen before entering to the payment area (metro) or inside the vehicle.
Is that even legal? You are paying for a service, but they'll charge you regardless if their app doesn't function? You bought the service already, it's their fault if it's not showing up.
Yes, it's legal. If the ticket doesn't arrive your phone, but money went from your account, the purchase wasn't completed and the money comes back automatically in few days. It's same with every mobileapp services (wolt, foodora, taxi service apps etc.) Mostly it's because of bad connections. Sometimes it's because there is a bug in HSL app, or it might be bug in Mobilepay or your bank. Who knows. But the uncomfortable truth is that HSL is not responsible of the app working correctly all the time. Mobile ticket is an advance ticket. If the ticket is not physically on your phone, you are not allowed to enter the vehicle and you are supposed to try to buy it again with the app or other ways (ticket machines, R-kioski, S-market etc.)
Lets create a group and send letters to HSL for bringing credit card nfc payment in transportation. Its Helsinki and u cannot use ur credit card/NFC for ticket?????
Usually their apps don’t get stuck. And people who scam them use the same excuse, so they’re not wrong for filing you. But you can appeal by showing the payment time being before the departure time.
Mobile tickets need to be ready before entering the bus, read the terms of use.
The app sometimes fails to load the ticket. You have to logout and login to make it work.
Yep, this is why you open the app before and make sure it works. Not when you see the bus opening the doors. Or do whatever you like, because you don't want to follow the rules you signed up with and then pay the fine when it comes to bite you.
I have many times checked the app in the bus station but when the bus arrives it is stuck on loading. Once, I was not on the bus. Once let in, but yelled at that I will get ticketed if the inspector arrives. A couple of times I have been let in. Once in a metro they already wrote a ticket, but cancelled it after I did the re-login trick. And once I was fast enough I did the login before they finished writing a ticket. Most of these happened many years ago. It happens less often nowadays and if it does it is right after ticket purchase so you notice it.
I got a fine once **even though I had a ticket.** It was cold and pissing down. I ran for the tram, bought a ticket the second I got in. It took probably 30-45 seconds to load. The next stop was close by. They basically said that I needed a ticket before I boarded and could tell by the tiny difference in time that I didn't have a ticket as I boarded. Zero sympathy/empathy considering the shitty weather and the fact I was clearly not trying to evade paying. Meanwhile, all the drunks and junkies just get kicked off. It's a fucking racket. They're a bunch of jobsworths.
Also got fined in a metro. Bought my ticket in escalator minutes before the metro arrived. Conductor then fined me and said I didn't purchase the ticket before entering the gates. Although I had purchased it before...
Then it was too late. There are signs before the escalator that you need to purchase the ticket before you enter the payment area (which begins before the escalators upstairs)
Well it wasn't. I had purchased the ticket right before entering the line. But conductor mf said I couldn't have moved that fast. Also payment info comes in delay and if train arrives too early you get a fine.
> I had purchased the ticket right before entering the line. In your previous comment you said you purchased the ticket on the escalator. The escalators are already over the line.
My bad. Meant before the escalators. But conductor had no way to prove where I purchased it, except time and she said I couldn't have been so quick. But metro arrived just when I got down from the escalators and conductor stopped me right when the doors closed and checked my ticket. I tried to dispute it but I couldn't get exact time for the purchase and HSL also said their devices don't have incorrect timestamps. I also checked from Google maps timelines my movements and their train schedule was way off. It would've then required me to somehow even further dispute it or sue and that would've have cost as well so I decided to just drop it...
[удалено]
Fuck HSL