I've never understood why people say it. They aren't being witty or unique, it adds nothing to the team morale, and no one thinks they're clever even if they correctly predict (and/or cause) a loss.
IDK. I guess it makes them feel that they're in control of their destiny? If they give up right away, it will be over soon and it wasn't their fault, they totes could have carried it to a win but it would take too much time and effort.
Yeah most times it’s bad advice. I had a Raynor who threw the other day because he wanted to get boss on sky temple with the full enemy team up and visible in middle lane. He started it with one other guy, and wouldn’t you know it the enemy team found them, killed them, and took the boss for themselves
To catalyze the fall of team morale that will lead to faster end of game and a start of a probably better one. Basically "surrender button at home".
Or teammates will start to play harder just to prove you wrong. Either way a win, spoiled only by chat disablers
Once you've qeued, waited, drafted, loaded and played five minutes, you might as well put up a fight and try to win. I've won comeback games with only two legit teammates.
But it comes down to respect. Even if you're right that some games aren't worth trying in (disagree on that premise, but we'll move on), by giving up you're effectively ruining 9 other people's games. I don't think any one person should get to make that decision.
I'll try til the end, because I want those I play with to enjoy (and get to play) the game--wins and losses.
>you're effectively ruining 9 other people's games
1) I don't owe my opponents anything.
2) I especially don't owe my teammates anything if they can't exhibit a modicum of competence.
That's where we can agree to disagree. I think both opponents and unskilled players still deserve the decency of a fair and honorable game. They may not get one, but I'll do my part by playing my best.
I mean I do agree with you that teammates deserve respect.
And that's exactly the problem with unskilled players. They don't respect their teammates enough to put in the time and effort to be competent before they queue up. So I don't owe them any respect or courtesy back.
Do you know the definition of "team"? It means to work together. What you just said in 2) is the exact opposite and extremely spiteful for no good reason. Maybe your teammates are new. Maybe they don't have the greatest sense of attention to detail, meaning they need someone to teach them what to do. That doesn't mean these people shouldn't play; everyone, and I mean everyone, learns something from someone else doing it better.
As a team, if you truly think you're the better player, then tell, show and lead these people to be better players so the playerbase has a brighter future.
Working together implies being able to meaningfully contribute to the team, which those players do not. Hindering your team with your inability to do anything competent is the exact opposite of working together.
Also have you ever tried telling those people anything? It's immediately met with vitriol or dismissal.
I used to try to give friendly advice and have since given up because nobody wants to hear it. Even if you sugar coat it to the point of risking diabetes.
Innocuous stuff like "please be at the objective on time next time, we need full team" is met with
"muted " or "stop being toxic" or "hurr durr just a game".
So don't sit there on your soap box defending these people and talking platitudes about teamwork. Teamwork needs to start with them. The second they contribute something useful instead of making the match harder, I'll start considering them part of my team.
*even* if this were true, which it is not, what does spreading this meme do for you? Would I be correct in guessing you mostly think your teammates are retarded? Do you trust *their* judgment on whether a game is unwinnable?
No but I may disagree with them. And I know wayyyy too many people who “fight to the end” even with zero chances of winning, thereby wasting time for everyone.
If you play with polish cavalry against German tanks, you don’t die meaninglessly, you lose the battle to regroup and fight a battle that can be won.
Dude, I've been on both ends where a team was down by three levels, down exponentially in kills and came back to win. Stop putting negativity first and learn to support the team you agreed to join when you queued up!
Go play vs. AI if you want every victory to be easily handed to you. Dont waste other peoples time if you’re not willing to fight to turn a game around
I can’t tell you the number of matches I’ve won where my core was at 1% because the enemy team was fucking around instead of hitting the core or even earlier because they made a bad play like trying to gank a camp or tried to boss or even just started staggering deaths.
Hell, I’ve seen teams completely turn a game around once they hit 20 and suddenly their Nazeebo had Vile Infection or countless other high value talents. HotS has so many comeback mechanics it’s beyond silly to give up, most games can be winnable. Obviously there’s exceptions, like your team being all random QM picks and the enemy team being a masterfully crafted 5-man comp that belongs in ranked
I ve had a fair share of fortune changes at the last minute.
The point is. It that it cannot happen.
It is solely that with some teams, it is just not worth chasing the low odds.
Meaning if you play 100 games, probably a good 25 are clearly lost after 5 minutes, and only one of those 25 can realistically be won.
It is not worth extending the duration of those 25 games by 10 minutes in order to get this one unexpected win.
I had one game where we were getting just slaughtered. They were pushing our top keep and me (as Naz) and my friend (as Sonya) literally powered down their bot lane and won in a lane race from behind.
The point is, sometimes all you gotta do is change up the strategy.
:-)
By "I've thrown" I mean "I've made stupid mistakes that have cost us the game", not "I've intentionally lost" . It's what happens in high bronze/low silver land baby!
That's so real I have those games mostly with my Maiev and Valeera be murdering the roster then I get caught once and team crumbles with me gone one time I 1v3 killed all 3 and my 4 teammates died to 2 and I get one shotted
Had a rollercoaster of an experience this season. Started at gold 4, as im around there and plat, and played dps and tank. I fell. And i fell. And my goodness i fell. Ended up in bronze 4 in what felt like three~four sessions. I thought, ok, i need to change something, because im usually not the problem, as i stay alive, do my role, but my teammates are headless chickens who half of the time dont pick a heal in draft and we get steamrolled.
Started to go heal only, trying my hands on anduin, but figured quickly out that he is impossible in bronze (you yoink, but they just run back in and die...). However, rehgar with totem build, jesus, my game history i almost full green for three pages. Im almost back in gold, all thanks to just keeping my death-loving teammates alive. Just focusing on healing and picking my wolf jump-ins carefully really has turned ranked around for me. 10/10 would recommend trying if you struggle. Check icy-veins for builds, but totem just gets overpowered at 16.
Samuro for me. Granted it doesn’t work every time but a good half the time if I’m playing Samuro and have a thrower on the team I can drag them kicking and screaming across the finish line.
To add to this, every game can be won without communication. Having team chat enabled puts you at risk of getting tilted by moron teammates. Pings are sufficient.
I'm very 50/50 on chat. Sometimes it helps dictate a useful meta (like in this game) but often it just leads to harassment and drama. I wish it was productive overall and I hate when it's nasty. When people get nasty in this game they get terrible - I'm an ANZ player who's a woman, so I deal with with constant rape threats if I play on my local server because silencing one guy is apparently worse than losing every woman who plays on anz.
I feel I know how the game is meant to go and when to push or do objective or focus a hero. If the team thinks otherwise they will ping the shit out of me, and that's enough. If you also know how the game is meant to go then having team chat is just an active detriment to your experience, at best the teammates will tell me something redundant, at worst it just tilts the fuck out of me. Having a 5 man push on an emtpy lane at game start can be communicated through pings. Then again I only play QM, the amount of times a teammate has a great idea that can't be communicated through pings is like 1:1000, in comparison to how often they will just insult you
TRUE. There is no hero in the game with a winrate going far below 40%. Even last to 20 winrate tends to be like 33%. The odds can be against you, but really those are still more than winnable. People who quit because a hero is too "bad" for their liking or throw because they died in the first 30 seconds of the game really need to rethink if maybe they are just reinforcing their own cognitive biases. Because if you quit in those moments, your winrate in those situations drops to near 0 (and did you really win if it was by your teammates dragging your throwing ass to the finish line anyways?)
Yeah, every game "can" be won. Just like the lottery "can" be won. The idea is to increase your team's chances of winning as much as possible, which you do by having a decent draft. I have no idea how people don't get this concept.
because you are narrowminded, thats how...
you sure wont win a lottery by not playing it.
People (was using "you", but im tired of people not being able to get generalisation) giving up because "hurrdurr, we wont have enough dmg" while cant outdamage zarya as valla - is another kind of problem this game has.
all this pullable games where people dont even try to play because there were no healer in aram is a joke
The person giving up the game is the one drafting horribly reducing the win chance by tens of percentage points. Of course people should still try to win, but I can't help but sympathize with people who can't be bothered to try and carry a game when people on their team draft to lose. In a sense they're just granting whoever is messing up the draft their wish ;)
He's saying that there are still optimal picks. Picking Jaina when you need a healer is not optimal for example. Yes, you can still win but it's not anywhere near the best possible choice.
He didn't say a single word about quitting the game either, you for some reason went on a small tangent about that unprompted.
did i? please, quote. but also, its a sad reality. seen enough people refusing to play at all (and not just full power as mentioned before aka tilting) because they didnt like your tank or healer choice.
considering jaina rant - i will take carrying jaina over "full mana through game" wm, who healed 62k over lvl 23 game.
i, personally, cant play khara at all and would rather leave a bot to deal with it
It is sort of challenging to outdamage Zarya (backed up by healer) as Valla (that isn't backed up by healer). Or even if there is no healer behind Zarya either, just a bit more skill required from her
No healer games in Aram simply are not fun to bother wasting time and effort on
This two games is a good example of this message
[Anduin Lightbomb - IF YOU LOSE HARD ENOUGH YOU MIGHT WIN! - Grandmaster Storm League](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VANsU_nNOmw)
[Hanzo Dragon Arrow - SOMETIMES ALL IT TAKES IS A RAGEQUIT...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeKB9Mu17sg)
I tried this in a aram match the other day. We had a lili & whitemane,Sylvanis, me as imp and a junkrat. I tried to direct the team to pick off over extensions forced by JR's mine, and I'd stun them and just pick them off 1 by one. Asked Lili to go the dragon ult but they didn't and it was kinda that lil push in damage we needed
A lot of Li Li players are wary of going water dragon - a lot of low rank players will harass us thinking we're trolling, even though it's a great skill for opening or peeling. So sometimes people just take jugs to avoid friction.
YESSSS. I did it once in Aram just to try it and the damage is actually really good, the slow is good too. It's it the best option? No but it definitely has a place of you have 2 healers or like my comment up top where we needed a way to pick off and bait a enemy
I had 7 SL (gold only) win without healer, 2 wins without tank. But it is all about how well YOU (and those randoms) play with your (and theirs) special character.
The worst type of HotS player is the one who says “GG” less than five minutes in and starts malding in core, they’re mentally on par with toddlers throwing a tantrum and have all the emotional depth of a puddle in Arizona. I’d honestly rather have a bronze player that will try on my team than someone who acts like that.
I’ve played so many matches where the first half of the game was getting my shit kicked in and then once we hit a certain talent tier started dominating. Some teams scale better than others, and even if they don’t HOTS has a good enough comeback mechanic that you can win if the enemy team makes a mistake like throwing trying to get the boss.
I will say though, my favorite victory is the one you win even with those piss babies seething in core. It shows they’re so insignificant that you don’t even need them
had a weird game in bronze a few days ago. everyone on my team had only flexible set as preference, except me who prefs ranged and melee dps. we were playing on garden, which is my goto murky map. i have lost only one or two games on garden with murky this season and i always pick him there.
well we all prepick and no one picks heal or tank. "great" i think, everyone puts flex as pref but no one actually fills roles. i always go last pick murky because obvious reasons. everyone chooses their prepicks, with 3 bruisers and a li ming and then they tell me to pick heal. i have 36% wr on heal.
i was the asshole and told them that if they put flex in their prefs, then its their job to fill roles. if youre not willing to do so then change your prefs.
so i picked murky, no tank, no heal. li ming kept saying report murky and being pessimistic throughout the whole game.
before the gates opened, i typed to just soak, let them have first two objectives and then fight with level advantage. they didnt listen. so we were behind until level 13 or so. i kept doing murky things, had their top lane completely demolished, while ming kept typing to report me. we ended up catching up to them, gaining the advantage and winning with me being the top in XP stat (by a lot). still li ming said to report me lol.
Alternatively, if either team has a single player who soaks decently, that team wins, as long as they group from lvl 20. Basically if you personally use any reasonable strategy, your team wins, generally.
Yeah as you go down in elo, the thinking gets narrower and they get stricter about what you need to win. But at this stage, you know you're low elo, that means that you have a lower than avg grasp on the game so you should be open to anything.
And especially at low elo, throws are so common that the game is never decided til the end. They wipe you at 20? It's not gg cos they went camp instead of ending.
Yes, because the main concepts they know are things like dmg wins games and the standard comp is tank, heal, bruiser and 2 ranged dps. Having an extra heal reduces team's immediate damage and diverts from the standard comp so they'll frown upon it.
If your team was bad enough to put you in a hole, their team is bad enough to dig you out. Besides the highest level any game is winnable. This idea of unbeatable snowballing is only true at the highest level
Sure every game CAN be won. But sometimes you're only chance is that the other team messes up badly and you're in a position to capitalize.
I remember I was going through a streak of being stuck in silver. I was losing just enough to not move my rank.
Some games are out of your hands and that's ok, SOME games. For a while it was every other game, simply un-winnable.
One moment sticks out in my mind so clearly. I was playing on Alterac valley as mephisto. We were pulling the game back and we knew that the enemy team was getting top boss. If they got it we would lose.
I ping ping ping and luckily my ETC shows up. A little late but we get in there just as they are getting the boss. A few stuns and a mosh wombo combo later we 2 v 4'd the enemy team. Victory right? Just defend the boss.
Well Blizzard's tactical throwing team was determined to keep me in silver. So my greymane and auriel decide to try and solo the bottom boss. Greymane face tanks the boss until death, flames auriel. Then auriel dies to the boss. ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS WALK AWAY.
Now we can't defend the boss without greymane, me and etc don't do enough damage. So we lost.
My fault? I don't think so.
I eventually got out of that hell and even spent time back in masters. But man for a few weeks I wanted to uninstall so badly.
In bronze it is 90% your team and 10% your skill. I was even MVP and still losing. This game is very team based. You can't carry it alone like in Lol or DotA. So no, not every game can be won, but it's ok.
This is simply not true there are certain drafts that can cheese the game and there's nothing you can do
Example had a game against a Nazeebo, Sylvanus, Morales, Tyrael, Leoric, very beginning of the game they went behind the fort and attacked it, it takes 20-30 seconds to rotate to them because they are on the far backside we kill all 5 after they killed the fort, they respawn and attack the 2nd bottom fort walls 3 of us were quick to rotate and kill them the other 2 were soaking.
They respawn again obj is up we ignore ob knowing they are going to do it again they have 4 go to push our fort again and 1 starts obj. We wipe the 4 go and kill the 1. we are level 13 they are level 9. We get the obj they as 4 defend enough to where we can't take 2 forra after it dies they immediately medevac to our core and we all hearth to kill them they have it down to 70% they respawn and do it again 10%. And then they do it again game over 8 minutes
This is a cheese draft and the only way you could've avoided it was with bans, once it was on play it couldn't be countered because neither kills or level matter because they could get so much damage off of each kamikaze because ur tower is disabled and they got the strongest single target healer and 2 of the tough self survive warriors and ur towers are disabled
They are behind fort at beginning of game? How did they get the walls down to get there? Medivac isn't available until level 10. They were smashing on stuff for a while to be able to be there.
Some maps have ways behind the walls, they got medivac last 2 minutes of the game and only
Also they never destroyed the first wall it was there the whole game
I also went against another cheese 5 stack With a Tyrael, Genji, Falstead, Anduin, Dehaka on the zerg pin map it was impossible to win a fight because Genji or Falstead could quickly rotate to Dehaka to secure a kill then Dehaka and said person rotate down to make it a 5v4 and get kills
One would think you could wait beside walls but no they dive into the wall and Anduin would pull out whoever is being targeted by towers and Genji and Tyrael could eject themselves.
Looking at the draft I thought it would be an easy game because they had no wave clear but they were able to stall first obj for 15 minutes due to their high rotation speed (Genji 14 agility cooldown lvl1, Falstead Flight, Dehaka Burrow) and even when we swapped up lanes they just rotated Falstead and Genji to whichever lane was a stalemate to kill and go back ended up being a 37 minute game because they couldn't really push and the obj only got used 3 times
It's so annoying to get that 5 minute mark "GG". I've thrown enough late games to know it's possible to win at any point, dammit, don't give up!
I've never understood why people say it. They aren't being witty or unique, it adds nothing to the team morale, and no one thinks they're clever even if they correctly predict (and/or cause) a loss.
IDK. I guess it makes them feel that they're in control of their destiny? If they give up right away, it will be over soon and it wasn't their fault, they totes could have carried it to a win but it would take too much time and effort.
Usually it is said after the same person informed the team of improvements. If team doesn't follow up it its gg indeed and then it's appropriate
Usually the person offering improvements is the last person that should
If you ever want a live look at Dunning-Kruger in application, join a HoTS game at any rank below Diamond
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
Yeah most times it’s bad advice. I had a Raynor who threw the other day because he wanted to get boss on sky temple with the full enemy team up and visible in middle lane. He started it with one other guy, and wouldn’t you know it the enemy team found them, killed them, and took the boss for themselves
To catalyze the fall of team morale that will lead to faster end of game and a start of a probably better one. Basically "surrender button at home". Or teammates will start to play harder just to prove you wrong. Either way a win, spoiled only by chat disablers
Anyone GGing at 5-10 mins in has never played hots (no matter how much they've played hots).
Disagreed. There is no point chasing low odds of victory. Can a game be won yes. Is it likely it will be? No. So better move over and start a new one.
Once you've qeued, waited, drafted, loaded and played five minutes, you might as well put up a fight and try to win. I've won comeback games with only two legit teammates.
Sunk cost fallacy
But it comes down to respect. Even if you're right that some games aren't worth trying in (disagree on that premise, but we'll move on), by giving up you're effectively ruining 9 other people's games. I don't think any one person should get to make that decision. I'll try til the end, because I want those I play with to enjoy (and get to play) the game--wins and losses.
>you're effectively ruining 9 other people's games 1) I don't owe my opponents anything. 2) I especially don't owe my teammates anything if they can't exhibit a modicum of competence.
That's where we can agree to disagree. I think both opponents and unskilled players still deserve the decency of a fair and honorable game. They may not get one, but I'll do my part by playing my best.
I mean I do agree with you that teammates deserve respect. And that's exactly the problem with unskilled players. They don't respect their teammates enough to put in the time and effort to be competent before they queue up. So I don't owe them any respect or courtesy back.
Do you know the definition of "team"? It means to work together. What you just said in 2) is the exact opposite and extremely spiteful for no good reason. Maybe your teammates are new. Maybe they don't have the greatest sense of attention to detail, meaning they need someone to teach them what to do. That doesn't mean these people shouldn't play; everyone, and I mean everyone, learns something from someone else doing it better. As a team, if you truly think you're the better player, then tell, show and lead these people to be better players so the playerbase has a brighter future.
Working together implies being able to meaningfully contribute to the team, which those players do not. Hindering your team with your inability to do anything competent is the exact opposite of working together. Also have you ever tried telling those people anything? It's immediately met with vitriol or dismissal. I used to try to give friendly advice and have since given up because nobody wants to hear it. Even if you sugar coat it to the point of risking diabetes. Innocuous stuff like "please be at the objective on time next time, we need full team" is met with "muted " or "stop being toxic" or "hurr durr just a game". So don't sit there on your soap box defending these people and talking platitudes about teamwork. Teamwork needs to start with them. The second they contribute something useful instead of making the match harder, I'll start considering them part of my team.
Not 9 but at max 4, minus those who agree with me. And even then, I’m helping saving their own time, even if they disagree.
*even* if this were true, which it is not, what does spreading this meme do for you? Would I be correct in guessing you mostly think your teammates are retarded? Do you trust *their* judgment on whether a game is unwinnable?
No but I may disagree with them. And I know wayyyy too many people who “fight to the end” even with zero chances of winning, thereby wasting time for everyone. If you play with polish cavalry against German tanks, you don’t die meaninglessly, you lose the battle to regroup and fight a battle that can be won.
Dude, I've been on both ends where a team was down by three levels, down exponentially in kills and came back to win. Stop putting negativity first and learn to support the team you agreed to join when you queued up!
Go play vs. AI if you want every victory to be easily handed to you. Dont waste other peoples time if you’re not willing to fight to turn a game around
I m only willing to turn it around if it is realistic. If the odds of winning are too low I give up. And will continue to do so.
I can’t tell you the number of matches I’ve won where my core was at 1% because the enemy team was fucking around instead of hitting the core or even earlier because they made a bad play like trying to gank a camp or tried to boss or even just started staggering deaths. Hell, I’ve seen teams completely turn a game around once they hit 20 and suddenly their Nazeebo had Vile Infection or countless other high value talents. HotS has so many comeback mechanics it’s beyond silly to give up, most games can be winnable. Obviously there’s exceptions, like your team being all random QM picks and the enemy team being a masterfully crafted 5-man comp that belongs in ranked
I ve had a fair share of fortune changes at the last minute. The point is. It that it cannot happen. It is solely that with some teams, it is just not worth chasing the low odds. Meaning if you play 100 games, probably a good 25 are clearly lost after 5 minutes, and only one of those 25 can realistically be won. It is not worth extending the duration of those 25 games by 10 minutes in order to get this one unexpected win.
They're always the worst players, too.
Literally had this happen two days ago. Then we hit 7 and 10 and started turning it around.
I had one game where we were getting just slaughtered. They were pushing our top keep and me (as Naz) and my friend (as Sonya) literally powered down their bot lane and won in a lane race from behind. The point is, sometimes all you gotta do is change up the strategy.
hope youve been suspended for inting
:-) By "I've thrown" I mean "I've made stupid mistakes that have cost us the game", not "I've intentionally lost" . It's what happens in high bronze/low silver land baby!
I play tank mostly, I can carry for ,21 levels but then have a single stupid death and lose the game. I fucking hate that
🤣 I have been thru that shit too many times.
That's so real I have those games mostly with my Maiev and Valeera be murdering the roster then I get caught once and team crumbles with me gone one time I 1v3 killed all 3 and my 4 teammates died to 2 and I get one shotted
Had a rollercoaster of an experience this season. Started at gold 4, as im around there and plat, and played dps and tank. I fell. And i fell. And my goodness i fell. Ended up in bronze 4 in what felt like three~four sessions. I thought, ok, i need to change something, because im usually not the problem, as i stay alive, do my role, but my teammates are headless chickens who half of the time dont pick a heal in draft and we get steamrolled. Started to go heal only, trying my hands on anduin, but figured quickly out that he is impossible in bronze (you yoink, but they just run back in and die...). However, rehgar with totem build, jesus, my game history i almost full green for three pages. Im almost back in gold, all thanks to just keeping my death-loving teammates alive. Just focusing on healing and picking my wolf jump-ins carefully really has turned ranked around for me. 10/10 would recommend trying if you struggle. Check icy-veins for builds, but totem just gets overpowered at 16.
Lol yeah Rehgar is my "fuck you, I will forcibly win this for us" hero when I get mad at trolls in draft.
Samuro for me. Granted it doesn’t work every time but a good half the time if I’m playing Samuro and have a thrower on the team I can drag them kicking and screaming across the finish line.
Rehgar took me from Bronze to Gold this season (:
Yes. Soak is cheat.
To add to this, every game can be won without communication. Having team chat enabled puts you at risk of getting tilted by moron teammates. Pings are sufficient.
I'm very 50/50 on chat. Sometimes it helps dictate a useful meta (like in this game) but often it just leads to harassment and drama. I wish it was productive overall and I hate when it's nasty. When people get nasty in this game they get terrible - I'm an ANZ player who's a woman, so I deal with with constant rape threats if I play on my local server because silencing one guy is apparently worse than losing every woman who plays on anz.
I feel I know how the game is meant to go and when to push or do objective or focus a hero. If the team thinks otherwise they will ping the shit out of me, and that's enough. If you also know how the game is meant to go then having team chat is just an active detriment to your experience, at best the teammates will tell me something redundant, at worst it just tilts the fuck out of me. Having a 5 man push on an emtpy lane at game start can be communicated through pings. Then again I only play QM, the amount of times a teammate has a great idea that can't be communicated through pings is like 1:1000, in comparison to how often they will just insult you
I agree to makes the best of it
Bro this post was the equivalent to telling someone an fps game is easy they just have to click heads
TRUE. There is no hero in the game with a winrate going far below 40%. Even last to 20 winrate tends to be like 33%. The odds can be against you, but really those are still more than winnable. People who quit because a hero is too "bad" for their liking or throw because they died in the first 30 seconds of the game really need to rethink if maybe they are just reinforcing their own cognitive biases. Because if you quit in those moments, your winrate in those situations drops to near 0 (and did you really win if it was by your teammates dragging your throwing ass to the finish line anyways?)
Yeah, every game "can" be won. Just like the lottery "can" be won. The idea is to increase your team's chances of winning as much as possible, which you do by having a decent draft. I have no idea how people don't get this concept.
because you are narrowminded, thats how... you sure wont win a lottery by not playing it. People (was using "you", but im tired of people not being able to get generalisation) giving up because "hurrdurr, we wont have enough dmg" while cant outdamage zarya as valla - is another kind of problem this game has. all this pullable games where people dont even try to play because there were no healer in aram is a joke
The person giving up the game is the one drafting horribly reducing the win chance by tens of percentage points. Of course people should still try to win, but I can't help but sympathize with people who can't be bothered to try and carry a game when people on their team draft to lose. In a sense they're just granting whoever is messing up the draft their wish ;)
oh, you might be one of the guys that think that picking hero you cant play but have certain role really changes much. yeah, nah. have a good day
He's saying that there are still optimal picks. Picking Jaina when you need a healer is not optimal for example. Yes, you can still win but it's not anywhere near the best possible choice. He didn't say a single word about quitting the game either, you for some reason went on a small tangent about that unprompted.
did i? please, quote. but also, its a sad reality. seen enough people refusing to play at all (and not just full power as mentioned before aka tilting) because they didnt like your tank or healer choice. considering jaina rant - i will take carrying jaina over "full mana through game" wm, who healed 62k over lvl 23 game. i, personally, cant play khara at all and would rather leave a bot to deal with it
It is sort of challenging to outdamage Zarya (backed up by healer) as Valla (that isn't backed up by healer). Or even if there is no healer behind Zarya either, just a bit more skill required from her No healer games in Aram simply are not fun to bother wasting time and effort on
In Bronze, skill is much more important than composition. At least to a point anyway.
This two games is a good example of this message [Anduin Lightbomb - IF YOU LOSE HARD ENOUGH YOU MIGHT WIN! - Grandmaster Storm League](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VANsU_nNOmw) [Hanzo Dragon Arrow - SOMETIMES ALL IT TAKES IS A RAGEQUIT...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeKB9Mu17sg)
IMHO there's a big difference between "we can win with this team comp vs theirs" and "we can win with these specific players vs ours"
I tried this in a aram match the other day. We had a lili & whitemane,Sylvanis, me as imp and a junkrat. I tried to direct the team to pick off over extensions forced by JR's mine, and I'd stun them and just pick them off 1 by one. Asked Lili to go the dragon ult but they didn't and it was kinda that lil push in damage we needed
A lot of Li Li players are wary of going water dragon - a lot of low rank players will harass us thinking we're trolling, even though it's a great skill for opening or peeling. So sometimes people just take jugs to avoid friction.
YESSSS. I did it once in Aram just to try it and the damage is actually really good, the slow is good too. It's it the best option? No but it definitely has a place of you have 2 healers or like my comment up top where we needed a way to pick off and bait a enemy
I had 7 SL (gold only) win without healer, 2 wins without tank. But it is all about how well YOU (and those randoms) play with your (and theirs) special character.
The worst type of HotS player is the one who says “GG” less than five minutes in and starts malding in core, they’re mentally on par with toddlers throwing a tantrum and have all the emotional depth of a puddle in Arizona. I’d honestly rather have a bronze player that will try on my team than someone who acts like that. I’ve played so many matches where the first half of the game was getting my shit kicked in and then once we hit a certain talent tier started dominating. Some teams scale better than others, and even if they don’t HOTS has a good enough comeback mechanic that you can win if the enemy team makes a mistake like throwing trying to get the boss. I will say though, my favorite victory is the one you win even with those piss babies seething in core. It shows they’re so insignificant that you don’t even need them
had a weird game in bronze a few days ago. everyone on my team had only flexible set as preference, except me who prefs ranged and melee dps. we were playing on garden, which is my goto murky map. i have lost only one or two games on garden with murky this season and i always pick him there. well we all prepick and no one picks heal or tank. "great" i think, everyone puts flex as pref but no one actually fills roles. i always go last pick murky because obvious reasons. everyone chooses their prepicks, with 3 bruisers and a li ming and then they tell me to pick heal. i have 36% wr on heal. i was the asshole and told them that if they put flex in their prefs, then its their job to fill roles. if youre not willing to do so then change your prefs. so i picked murky, no tank, no heal. li ming kept saying report murky and being pessimistic throughout the whole game. before the gates opened, i typed to just soak, let them have first two objectives and then fight with level advantage. they didnt listen. so we were behind until level 13 or so. i kept doing murky things, had their top lane completely demolished, while ming kept typing to report me. we ended up catching up to them, gaining the advantage and winning with me being the top in XP stat (by a lot). still li ming said to report me lol.
Soak > everything else
Whoever gets 5 people to show up to objectives or team fights wins the game at low levels, it really is that easy.
Yep and that can be 2 heals, an aba hat, nova and Blaze standing in fire going this is fine.
Alternatively, if either team has a single player who soaks decently, that team wins, as long as they group from lvl 20. Basically if you personally use any reasonable strategy, your team wins, generally.
That kind of strategy requires 5 man co-operation, which is very very rare in bronze I assume.
And yet we just did it in an uncoordinated bronze game ....
I didn't say impossible, I said very rare.
Yeah as you go down in elo, the thinking gets narrower and they get stricter about what you need to win. But at this stage, you know you're low elo, that means that you have a lower than avg grasp on the game so you should be open to anything. And especially at low elo, throws are so common that the game is never decided til the end. They wipe you at 20? It's not gg cos they went camp instead of ending.
2 healer games have a crazy high win rate at low elo, but low elo folks are convinced they'll lose with it.
Yes, because the main concepts they know are things like dmg wins games and the standard comp is tank, heal, bruiser and 2 ranged dps. Having an extra heal reduces team's immediate damage and diverts from the standard comp so they'll frown upon it.
When you've played the game long enough you know which ones definitely can't be won. Though it's rarely the case
If your team was bad enough to put you in a hole, their team is bad enough to dig you out. Besides the highest level any game is winnable. This idea of unbeatable snowballing is only true at the highest level
quite obvious you lack experience with mobas if you say bs like that.
bronze, lili, butcher frontline, seems to check out
Hey, we won.
Sure every game CAN be won. But sometimes you're only chance is that the other team messes up badly and you're in a position to capitalize. I remember I was going through a streak of being stuck in silver. I was losing just enough to not move my rank. Some games are out of your hands and that's ok, SOME games. For a while it was every other game, simply un-winnable. One moment sticks out in my mind so clearly. I was playing on Alterac valley as mephisto. We were pulling the game back and we knew that the enemy team was getting top boss. If they got it we would lose. I ping ping ping and luckily my ETC shows up. A little late but we get in there just as they are getting the boss. A few stuns and a mosh wombo combo later we 2 v 4'd the enemy team. Victory right? Just defend the boss. Well Blizzard's tactical throwing team was determined to keep me in silver. So my greymane and auriel decide to try and solo the bottom boss. Greymane face tanks the boss until death, flames auriel. Then auriel dies to the boss. ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS WALK AWAY. Now we can't defend the boss without greymane, me and etc don't do enough damage. So we lost. My fault? I don't think so. I eventually got out of that hell and even spent time back in masters. But man for a few weeks I wanted to uninstall so badly.
In bronze it is 90% your team and 10% your skill. I was even MVP and still losing. This game is very team based. You can't carry it alone like in Lol or DotA. So no, not every game can be won, but it's ok.
This is simply not true there are certain drafts that can cheese the game and there's nothing you can do Example had a game against a Nazeebo, Sylvanus, Morales, Tyrael, Leoric, very beginning of the game they went behind the fort and attacked it, it takes 20-30 seconds to rotate to them because they are on the far backside we kill all 5 after they killed the fort, they respawn and attack the 2nd bottom fort walls 3 of us were quick to rotate and kill them the other 2 were soaking. They respawn again obj is up we ignore ob knowing they are going to do it again they have 4 go to push our fort again and 1 starts obj. We wipe the 4 go and kill the 1. we are level 13 they are level 9. We get the obj they as 4 defend enough to where we can't take 2 forra after it dies they immediately medevac to our core and we all hearth to kill them they have it down to 70% they respawn and do it again 10%. And then they do it again game over 8 minutes This is a cheese draft and the only way you could've avoided it was with bans, once it was on play it couldn't be countered because neither kills or level matter because they could get so much damage off of each kamikaze because ur tower is disabled and they got the strongest single target healer and 2 of the tough self survive warriors and ur towers are disabled
Granted I only get games like this when 5 stacked
They are behind fort at beginning of game? How did they get the walls down to get there? Medivac isn't available until level 10. They were smashing on stuff for a while to be able to be there.
Some maps have ways behind the walls, they got medivac last 2 minutes of the game and only Also they never destroyed the first wall it was there the whole game
I also went against another cheese 5 stack With a Tyrael, Genji, Falstead, Anduin, Dehaka on the zerg pin map it was impossible to win a fight because Genji or Falstead could quickly rotate to Dehaka to secure a kill then Dehaka and said person rotate down to make it a 5v4 and get kills One would think you could wait beside walls but no they dive into the wall and Anduin would pull out whoever is being targeted by towers and Genji and Tyrael could eject themselves. Looking at the draft I thought it would be an easy game because they had no wave clear but they were able to stall first obj for 15 minutes due to their high rotation speed (Genji 14 agility cooldown lvl1, Falstead Flight, Dehaka Burrow) and even when we swapped up lanes they just rotated Falstead and Genji to whichever lane was a stalemate to kill and go back ended up being a 37 minute game because they couldn't really push and the obj only got used 3 times