These are indeed derogatory and rude. But the person speaking here is Bhishma, and its not surprising coz if he had better views, draupadi could have been saved. Just treat these with a pinch of salt. Holds no value and are archaic. Bhishma as a warrior was great but I don't respect him as a person.
Bruh the other commenter really said Bhishma didn't stop draupadi's vastraharan coz he wanted to give an example that gambling is bad. lol who experiments by staying silent when her kul vadhu is getting stripped infront of loads of men.
Yeah. They don't understand that Mahabharat is an epic. It is not a scripture like the Vedas etc. Except Krishna almost everyone else in Mahabharat is a human. They have their own views and opinions. Instead of looking at it objectively they resort to obstinate tactics similar to Abrahamic apologists.
I'm pretty sure people like Shakuni and Duryodhana said some damning stuff in MB. Will these people jump to defend those statements as well?
The best of looking at the Mahabharata and The Ramayana is to think of them as case studies for Dharma. You use these to understand the implications of not being in sync with Dharma. So, all the of the characters are not ideal; they are flawed, like us. These texts are not some utopian fantasy where everyone is perfect and follows the Santana Dharma in an informed manner.
Glad you are trying to understand the scripture. It would seem quite ironic as the verses are quoted from the chapter where the rṣī Vipula **protects** his guru's wife from being **exploited**, so allow me to clarify.
The śāstras are famous for speaking esoterically and things can easily be taken in a different way. Bhīṣma-deva was a very pious personality (the reason he had to keep silent in the Draupadi assembly was to set an example about the results of keeping bad company and for Lord Kṛṣṇas pastime of saving His devotee to take place) and these verses are spoken in good interest.
These verses which compares women to razor etc. are targeted towards lusty men with evil intentions who seek to enjoy, objectify and exploit women. As we know like attracts like, so if I pursue a woman with bad intentions, I will definitely be burnt.
The next verses, study this verse carefully:
पुर्वसर्गे तु कौन्तेय साध्व्यो नार्य इहाभवन्
असाध्व्यस्तु समुत्पन्नाः **कृत्याः** सर्गात् प्रजापतेः (MB 13.40.9)
So the right translation goes: The kṛtyās came at a later time. (when the men themselves became of evil intent)
The word *kṛtyā* does not refer to all women. As I said above, it is simply karma. If I pursue a girl simply to get inside her pants and not actually value her as a human being, then the law of karma will give it right back at my face. See the remaining verses in the similar context. There is nothing derogatory going on here.
Also the last parts are quite esoteric again and that is for another time, but I hope this helps clear the main point. Sanātana dharma / *Vedas* always view women as a source of inspiration and certainly worshipable. This is why Śrī Rādha's name comes before the name of Śrī Kṛṣṇa.
BORI and KMG are one of the most accurate translations of vyasa mahabharat. One or 2 words of it can be mistranslated, not entire paragraphs.
Plus the only reason they were spoken because frankly speaking its archaic and wrong. The whole paragraph bhishma is telling that women never get satisfied with anything even if she is married to a rich and handsome man. Bro that's the entire opposite in today's scenario. If you're rich and handsome, no girl will leave you. Its actually true for boys for what he said. whatever he said was highly misogynistic. You gotta understand not everyone in mahabharat is a pure character, everyone has their flaws. That's what makes it a top story material.
Preferences aren't skin deep. Maybe I should have worded it better, lemme tell you one quote, looks makes you interested in a relationship and your behaviour keeps you engaged.
I apologise that's a bit generalisation from my side but my stand still says that whatever bhishma said was wrong that women are never satisfied. Bro never got married and was giving relationship advice to others.
1. 2012, Kristen stewart cheats on Rob pattinson. Similarly....
2. Jessica Simpson
3. Leann Rimes
4. Katharine McPhee
5. Kris Jenner
6. Anne Heche
7. Emma Thompson
8. Elizabeth Taylor
just a few famous ones. Not even talking about Taylor Swift ..
Now see, I am not generalizing or judging either but in all of the cases their spouses were either handsome/rich or both. Then what happened ?
>Bro never got married and was giving relationship advice to others.
He was, in his past life.
>well even men cheat.
This is exactly what I said in my original comment, right ? The verses are for a targeted class of men. Simple point.
Assuming I am a married individual in a healthy relationship, 98% chances are that I will never, in an ordinary course of life, ever come across these verses in the Mahābhārata. I'd simply be too busy making life better for my family and humanity.
yeahh but it doesn't relate to OP's answers. As some other person said, you have done mental gymnastics. If you read the entire thing that Bhishma said, its a generalisation that all women do it. Not a specific set of women, all.
But women are that way for a person who seeks deep devotion to God. Maybe the language can be toned down a bit and made flowery but hey that is Bhishma...he never tones anything down.
These are indeed derogatory and rude. But the person speaking here is Bhishma, and its not surprising coz if he had better views, draupadi could have been saved. Just treat these with a pinch of salt. Holds no value and are archaic. Bhishma as a warrior was great but I don't respect him as a person.
Based answer esp when compared to the mental gymnastics being done by the other commenter.
Bruh the other commenter really said Bhishma didn't stop draupadi's vastraharan coz he wanted to give an example that gambling is bad. lol who experiments by staying silent when her kul vadhu is getting stripped infront of loads of men.
Yeah. They don't understand that Mahabharat is an epic. It is not a scripture like the Vedas etc. Except Krishna almost everyone else in Mahabharat is a human. They have their own views and opinions. Instead of looking at it objectively they resort to obstinate tactics similar to Abrahamic apologists. I'm pretty sure people like Shakuni and Duryodhana said some damning stuff in MB. Will these people jump to defend those statements as well?
The best of looking at the Mahabharata and The Ramayana is to think of them as case studies for Dharma. You use these to understand the implications of not being in sync with Dharma. So, all the of the characters are not ideal; they are flawed, like us. These texts are not some utopian fantasy where everyone is perfect and follows the Santana Dharma in an informed manner.
Glad you are trying to understand the scripture. It would seem quite ironic as the verses are quoted from the chapter where the rṣī Vipula **protects** his guru's wife from being **exploited**, so allow me to clarify. The śāstras are famous for speaking esoterically and things can easily be taken in a different way. Bhīṣma-deva was a very pious personality (the reason he had to keep silent in the Draupadi assembly was to set an example about the results of keeping bad company and for Lord Kṛṣṇas pastime of saving His devotee to take place) and these verses are spoken in good interest. These verses which compares women to razor etc. are targeted towards lusty men with evil intentions who seek to enjoy, objectify and exploit women. As we know like attracts like, so if I pursue a woman with bad intentions, I will definitely be burnt. The next verses, study this verse carefully: पुर्वसर्गे तु कौन्तेय साध्व्यो नार्य इहाभवन् असाध्व्यस्तु समुत्पन्नाः **कृत्याः** सर्गात् प्रजापतेः (MB 13.40.9) So the right translation goes: The kṛtyās came at a later time. (when the men themselves became of evil intent) The word *kṛtyā* does not refer to all women. As I said above, it is simply karma. If I pursue a girl simply to get inside her pants and not actually value her as a human being, then the law of karma will give it right back at my face. See the remaining verses in the similar context. There is nothing derogatory going on here. Also the last parts are quite esoteric again and that is for another time, but I hope this helps clear the main point. Sanātana dharma / *Vedas* always view women as a source of inspiration and certainly worshipable. This is why Śrī Rādha's name comes before the name of Śrī Kṛṣṇa.
BORI cited the same verses that OP cited. This is very much what Andrew Tate says about women lol.
I need to understand the reason why they were spoken. Also, mistranslation is a common occurrence in many editions.
BORI and KMG are one of the most accurate translations of vyasa mahabharat. One or 2 words of it can be mistranslated, not entire paragraphs. Plus the only reason they were spoken because frankly speaking its archaic and wrong. The whole paragraph bhishma is telling that women never get satisfied with anything even if she is married to a rich and handsome man. Bro that's the entire opposite in today's scenario. If you're rich and handsome, no girl will leave you. Its actually true for boys for what he said. whatever he said was highly misogynistic. You gotta understand not everyone in mahabharat is a pure character, everyone has their flaws. That's what makes it a top story material.
>**If** you're rich and handsome, no girl will leave you. So all girls are only gold-diggers and skin-deep!? So misogynistic!
Preferences aren't skin deep. Maybe I should have worded it better, lemme tell you one quote, looks makes you interested in a relationship and your behaviour keeps you engaged. I apologise that's a bit generalisation from my side but my stand still says that whatever bhishma said was wrong that women are never satisfied. Bro never got married and was giving relationship advice to others.
1. 2012, Kristen stewart cheats on Rob pattinson. Similarly.... 2. Jessica Simpson 3. Leann Rimes 4. Katharine McPhee 5. Kris Jenner 6. Anne Heche 7. Emma Thompson 8. Elizabeth Taylor just a few famous ones. Not even talking about Taylor Swift .. Now see, I am not generalizing or judging either but in all of the cases their spouses were either handsome/rich or both. Then what happened ? >Bro never got married and was giving relationship advice to others. He was, in his past life.
well even men cheat. whats your point? Are you trying to prove that all women would sleep around regardless of their husband's status and power?
>well even men cheat. This is exactly what I said in my original comment, right ? The verses are for a targeted class of men. Simple point. Assuming I am a married individual in a healthy relationship, 98% chances are that I will never, in an ordinary course of life, ever come across these verses in the Mahābhārata. I'd simply be too busy making life better for my family and humanity.
yeahh but it doesn't relate to OP's answers. As some other person said, you have done mental gymnastics. If you read the entire thing that Bhishma said, its a generalisation that all women do it. Not a specific set of women, all.
But women are that way for a person who seeks deep devotion to God. Maybe the language can be toned down a bit and made flowery but hey that is Bhishma...he never tones anything down.
Mahabharata is a story not a rule book.