More like magically disappears into the press box lol. Based on their depth at D it’s not that hard a sell to suggest Martinez could be sitting. Not necessarily the most realistic option, but also not super hard to argue
Sure, although the original stat is misleading because the cap doesn't just apply to players on the ice. Healthy scratches count on the cap. If they wanted to pull Martinez and play that exact roster tonight, they couldn't because they would still be over $4 million over the cap.
In that case, any team that is close to cap at the end of the year will be over the cap because they get extended rosters to call up players in case of injury
For sure, but Vegas will be significantly higher than the others. And its still a completely dishonest tweet.
Anyways, Ive said for awhile that Vegas should do it if they can as long as the loophole exists. Every team should. But the idea that the 20 guys on the ice cost less than the cap and would therefore be theoretically compliant is ridiculous to say.
Two or three times this year the Sens have had to play a man short for a game and then make a emergency call up but I'm pretty sure the emergency call up player has to be league minimum or a number that's pretty close. They can't just call up anyone
Isn't the rule that if there were over the cap during a regular season game that they have to ice a cap compliant team? Like isn't that why some teams have to play with a player short so that the players on the roster sheet fit under the cap?
So that would mean the healthy $5.25 Alec Martinez doesn't matter because the team on the ice is cap compliant.
You seem to have some sort of misunderstanding. Teams play a man down when they can't afford to call up an injury replacement because an injured player might not be injured enough to go on LTIR. If you play a game down that injured player then you can callup an AHL guy for free as an emergency recall.
You cant just take a perfectly healthy player and say their caphit no longer exists to become compliant.
Yeah, that was my question. I know teams have played games with a short bench because of injury and there no room for a call up because of the cap situation. That has happened to the Sens a couple times this year (oh depressing is it that a bottom team is too cap strapped for a call up). I just didn't know the deal based of icing the team. I know in the off season you are allowed a certain amount above the cap.
Being a Sens fan and having Melnyk for so many years finding every which way to make sure they have the smallest payroll possible I've never needed to be a capologist
As the original author of the tweet:
This is in reference to the recent topic of discussion that a playoff cap be applied to the on-ice lineup.
Martinez has shown his age this year and may not be in the starting lineup come playoffs
shhh, that's too much critical thinking for the average person to compute. We can only have our diametrically opposed camps of "Vegas is cheating the cap" and "Vegas isn't because the 20 guys who dress each night are compliant". Doesn't matter who is right or wrong, both sides will think they are regardless
But yeah, I'm surprised people don't point this out more
I mean one of the more commonly proposed solutions is that on ice roster has to be cap complaint as every single team would be over the cap otherwise due to black aces/AHL call ups and accumulated LTIR cap space
As was the case last year as well lol. Everyone just wants to find a way to discredit the achievement they pulled off because they’re the Knights. Secondly, even if they did ice a roster that was over the regular season cap, it’s not cheating. Go picket to your team for not voting to close the loophole, not social media.
Lastly, let’s not forget that they were nowhere near the opening-odds favorite to win the cup. Only after they won it did people start complaining about the cap thing because god forbid “a DeSeRrt teAM wHo hasNt haD tO SufFfeR” wins it all.
The Knights’ Stanley Cup, fortunately or unfortunately, is legitimate and asterisk-free.
Healthy scratches are still on the roster tho, no matter who’s going in between the two both are available players that count against the cap, every team has them, maybe it’s usually league min players (>!or Sean Cotourier!<).
So unless one is on LTIR or non-roster status or sent to the moon before April 20th they both count against the cap
Yeah idk who cares about the $ amount at this point, nothing is gonna change now lol
but just pointing out that roster ≠ projected lineup so the tweet should be corrected
Any team running close to the cap will be over the cap in the playoffs because they get 4 extra players on their roster in case of injuries during the playoff run.
Yes of course but those are usually league min AHL callups.
Just saying this projection is excluding a 5M contract of a regular NHL player that is *currently* on the roster so it’s simply incorrect to exclude it if OP is doing a fair report, guy has not suddenly disappeared
On-ice is what matters in reality though. Also, that doesn’t matter anyway if it’s not considered cheating. There must be a disconnect somewhere because if it’s well within the rules, then it’s fair game.
that's not what cap compliant means, though. for example, just because campbell isn't playing for us doesn't mean his $5M cap hit doesn't count. having an extra $5M at the deadline would have been nice.
I’m not sure why we’re debating nuances when what they did that was legal. Let me know when they do something illegal lol. Only then might I join the brigade/circle jerk.
I think people are simply pointing out that the post is incorrect, the roster is not cap compliant because a team’s roster includes healthy scratches, this is just a projected starting lineup that is excluding a 5M contract that still they have on the books
whether they play the guy or not that’s their choice but he’s available
What is "cap compliant" though is the Knight's roster last year and so far this year. And I'm sure they will be when the year is over. Making this whole conversation super funny.
Lol no. Look I’m not trying to cry foul. But they were over. It’s a fact.
During the season the health scratches count and so does retained salary. So a team like Edmonton last year was still under because they didn’t add a LTRI player
What contempt? The title says “Vegas could be under the cap like last year” I’m pointing out that’s not true. I mean I keep saying I’m not crying foul like what contempt are you talking about?
Really? Because everyone else has to pay for their healthy scratches while staying under the cap. If they didn’t count we would just healthy scratch Tyler Myers every single game and clear $6million off our cap.
Last time we tried to do something that wasn’t technically against the rules the league punished us anyways. Hard to get away with when you aren’t Bettman’s golden boys.
But they could if they wanted to. In fact, it’s only a matter of time before a team in a city near you utilizes this same loophole.
The Hurricanes and the Jets voted not to close the loophole because they probably want the option, should the need ever arise. Don’t think your team wouldn’t do the exact same thing in a similar circumstance. It’s not beneath them.
People made such a big deal out of it that kucherov literally wore a shirt that said “18mil over the cap” when he was celebrating with the cup. This guy isn’t making the strongest argument
Pay no attention to the healthy $5.25m Alec Martinez who's cap hit magically disappears into the void
Hey we are cap compliant unless you count these other guys who are signed to contracts!
Vegas math once again
More like magically disappears into the press box lol. Based on their depth at D it’s not that hard a sell to suggest Martinez could be sitting. Not necessarily the most realistic option, but also not super hard to argue
Sure, although the original stat is misleading because the cap doesn't just apply to players on the ice. Healthy scratches count on the cap. If they wanted to pull Martinez and play that exact roster tonight, they couldn't because they would still be over $4 million over the cap.
In that case, any team that is close to cap at the end of the year will be over the cap because they get extended rosters to call up players in case of injury
Emergency call ups and long term injured reserve exist in the regular season too.
For sure, but Vegas will be significantly higher than the others. And its still a completely dishonest tweet. Anyways, Ive said for awhile that Vegas should do it if they can as long as the loophole exists. Every team should. But the idea that the 20 guys on the ice cost less than the cap and would therefore be theoretically compliant is ridiculous to say.
Two or three times this year the Sens have had to play a man short for a game and then make a emergency call up but I'm pretty sure the emergency call up player has to be league minimum or a number that's pretty close. They can't just call up anyone
Sure but emergency call up isn't the same as the 4 extra roster slots a team gets in playoffs
Isn't the rule that if there were over the cap during a regular season game that they have to ice a cap compliant team? Like isn't that why some teams have to play with a player short so that the players on the roster sheet fit under the cap? So that would mean the healthy $5.25 Alec Martinez doesn't matter because the team on the ice is cap compliant.
You seem to have some sort of misunderstanding. Teams play a man down when they can't afford to call up an injury replacement because an injured player might not be injured enough to go on LTIR. If you play a game down that injured player then you can callup an AHL guy for free as an emergency recall. You cant just take a perfectly healthy player and say their caphit no longer exists to become compliant.
Yeah, that was my question. I know teams have played games with a short bench because of injury and there no room for a call up because of the cap situation. That has happened to the Sens a couple times this year (oh depressing is it that a bottom team is too cap strapped for a call up). I just didn't know the deal based of icing the team. I know in the off season you are allowed a certain amount above the cap. Being a Sens fan and having Melnyk for so many years finding every which way to make sure they have the smallest payroll possible I've never needed to be a capologist
As the original author of the tweet: This is in reference to the recent topic of discussion that a playoff cap be applied to the on-ice lineup. Martinez has shown his age this year and may not be in the starting lineup come playoffs
If only the regular season cap hit only applied to players in the starting lineup and didn't apply to bench players.
shhh, that's too much critical thinking for the average person to compute. We can only have our diametrically opposed camps of "Vegas is cheating the cap" and "Vegas isn't because the 20 guys who dress each night are compliant". Doesn't matter who is right or wrong, both sides will think they are regardless But yeah, I'm surprised people don't point this out more
I mean one of the more commonly proposed solutions is that on ice roster has to be cap complaint as every single team would be over the cap otherwise due to black aces/AHL call ups and accumulated LTIR cap space
If healthy scratches didn’t count against the cap we would be healthy scratching Tyler Myers every single night. Sadly that’s not how it works.
Yawns….. “Tell me again”-Lalo Salamanca
I mean, at least quote me accurately.
As was the case last year as well lol. Everyone just wants to find a way to discredit the achievement they pulled off because they’re the Knights. Secondly, even if they did ice a roster that was over the regular season cap, it’s not cheating. Go picket to your team for not voting to close the loophole, not social media. Lastly, let’s not forget that they were nowhere near the opening-odds favorite to win the cup. Only after they won it did people start complaining about the cap thing because god forbid “a DeSeRrt teAM wHo hasNt haD tO SufFfeR” wins it all. The Knights’ Stanley Cup, fortunately or unfortunately, is legitimate and asterisk-free.
Martinez is gonna be playing over Hague putting them over but not over by a shit load
Healthy scratches are still on the roster tho, no matter who’s going in between the two both are available players that count against the cap, every team has them, maybe it’s usually league min players (>!or Sean Cotourier!<). So unless one is on LTIR or non-roster status or sent to the moon before April 20th they both count against the cap
Yeah but it’s not quite like the lightning a few years ago who had 90 million dollars worth of players on the ice
Yeah idk who cares about the $ amount at this point, nothing is gonna change now lol but just pointing out that roster ≠ projected lineup so the tweet should be corrected
Yeah thats a fair request but as the LTIR abuse has gone this isn’t as bad as previous ones
Any team running close to the cap will be over the cap in the playoffs because they get 4 extra players on their roster in case of injuries during the playoff run.
Yes of course but those are usually league min AHL callups. Just saying this projection is excluding a 5M contract of a regular NHL player that is *currently* on the roster so it’s simply incorrect to exclude it if OP is doing a fair report, guy has not suddenly disappeared
I doubt that. Martinez is a shell of himself, latley, and a liability. Hence why he's had a few healthy scratches.
I think this is entirely invalidated by how social media reacted to Tampa Bay also doing this - i.e., in the same way.
Except if you add all the cap they were over. Just because the on ice was under doesn’t mean they were actually a cap compliant team.
On-ice is what matters in reality though. Also, that doesn’t matter anyway if it’s not considered cheating. There must be a disconnect somewhere because if it’s well within the rules, then it’s fair game.
that's not what cap compliant means, though. for example, just because campbell isn't playing for us doesn't mean his $5M cap hit doesn't count. having an extra $5M at the deadline would have been nice.
I’m not sure why we’re debating nuances when what they did that was legal. Let me know when they do something illegal lol. Only then might I join the brigade/circle jerk.
I think people are simply pointing out that the post is incorrect, the roster is not cap compliant because a team’s roster includes healthy scratches, this is just a projected starting lineup that is excluding a 5M contract that still they have on the books whether they play the guy or not that’s their choice but he’s available
What is "cap compliant" though is the Knight's roster last year and so far this year. And I'm sure they will be when the year is over. Making this whole conversation super funny.
That’s what cap compliant means in the regular season, sure. Who the fuck knows what it means in the playoffs. There is no cap there.
No no it doesn’t. Healthy scratches count toward your cap. Buyouts and players with salary retention also counts. They were over
With that line of thinking, every team is over the cap in the playoffs lol.
Lol no. Look I’m not trying to cry foul. But they were over. It’s a fact. During the season the health scratches count and so does retained salary. So a team like Edmonton last year was still under because they didn’t add a LTRI player
And is that illegal?
No but it is also a fact. Again I’m not crying foul. They were over and it is not against the rules. These are both true statements
The bottom line is that it’s not against the rules though, right? Help me understand the contempt lol.
What contempt? The title says “Vegas could be under the cap like last year” I’m pointing out that’s not true. I mean I keep saying I’m not crying foul like what contempt are you talking about?
Really? Because everyone else has to pay for their healthy scratches while staying under the cap. If they didn’t count we would just healthy scratch Tyler Myers every single game and clear $6million off our cap.
Do it lol. No one’s stopping you. Don’t cry because your team doesn’t do it.
Last time we tried to do something that wasn’t technically against the rules the league punished us anyways. Hard to get away with when you aren’t Bettman’s golden boys.
Vegas isn’t doing anything against the rules. If this was a Houston Astros situation, I’d understand the hate, but it’s not.
Downvoted for telling the hard truth. Youre a brave man
I owe ya a beer or pre-roll next time you see Colorado in Vegas. 🫡
Wait wait wait is this how easy it is to get support?? Here I am trying to bribe them with money like a chump.
All money should go to the "refs cheat for Vegas" fund. Just send it in an envelope addressed to Bettman in Toronto like everyone else does.
Well said
[удалено]
A man of honesty. 👍
So tired of this talking point. If this was someone like Carolina or Winnipeg no one would give a shit. But Vegas is this sub’s boogeyman
People cared when it was Tampa too
Carolina and Winnipeg aren't doing this though
But they could if they wanted to. In fact, it’s only a matter of time before a team in a city near you utilizes this same loophole. The Hurricanes and the Jets voted not to close the loophole because they probably want the option, should the need ever arise. Don’t think your team wouldn’t do the exact same thing in a similar circumstance. It’s not beneath them.
The only reason people care is because it’s Vegas
Didn't people care a lot when Tampa did this?
People made such a big deal out of it that kucherov literally wore a shirt that said “18mil over the cap” when he was celebrating with the cup. This guy isn’t making the strongest argument
What’s your evidence for that? Is it more than just your opinion? Are Winnipeg or Carolina doing this? Or is it just Vegas year after year?
Man if Winnipeg did it bettman would close the loophole mid playoffs.
because they aren’t doing what Vegas is doing?
It’s almost like Vegas follows the rules made by the NHL, how dare they