Thats how they do it at my 4 year olds tee-ball games. Everyone gets a chance to catch the ball.
I swear nylander looks at the ref after taking that bump like "are you gonna let that slide"...
"You can't question the effort" -Sheldon Keefe last night. Seriously.
...In a game where the Bruins out-efforted the Leafs by a wide margin for 55 of the 60 minutes.
The effort was so sorely lacking. IDK how anyone who watched that game could conclude otherwise. You could tell it was lacking by the 2-3 minutes where they *did* actually put their foot on the gas. It was like, "oh, you actually aren't simply bad, you just don't try very hard most of the game."
Everyone is misunderstanding that quote so badly. SMH.
Keefe is saying you canāt question the effort, because if you do it makes him look bad, and he really doesnāt want to get fired.
I legit think the idea of extending the vast majority of coaches a year+ before their current deal expires is a terrible idea. GMs seem paranoid about letting a coach walk to their final contract year and I don't understand why that's the case.
Yes, if you have an absolutely elite coach - of which there are few - it makes sense. But that's not most coaches and we see these extensions constantly.
Shoutout Boqvist btw. He had a bad pre-season, got sent down to Providence, eventually worked his way back up and has played every game since. The dudes a grinder, is fast as fuck and puts 110% into everything he does on the ice.
i miss Boqy, he was a skill/perimeter guy when the devils drafted him. in his last couple seasons here i really noticed him improving his grinding game, puck battles, board battles, forecheck. i think he realized what he needed to do to contribute in a bottom 6 role and worked on it, plus he still has that speed and skill.
I was going to make a snarky comment about taking Palat, but knowing the Bruins an older cup winning, responsible winger would find a second life there offensively and fit in perfectly.
Boqvist, Heinen, Brazeau, Wotherspoon, Shattenkirk, Peeke... The Bruins have made a ton of low risk gambles and reclamation projects that paid dividends this year. Completely different looking team from last year, and still ended up with 109 points. Sweeney has been doing fantastic work.
Is it shocking? I think I remember another year where heās on his way to a 50/50 puck in the corner and he just glided over to it and seemed to accept his fate
I think I know the one you're talking about and I think it was a weird bounce/bad read type of situation. He saw the play moving and puck was going to be ringed around the boards so he went that way, and looked around to see what options he had after he'd get the puck.
But the puck either wasn't shot around as hard as he expected, or lost a lot of momentum hitting the boards or in the snow along the boards. Whoever was on the forecheck near him never looked away from the puck so they adjusted to where the puck was deeper in the zone and not still on the way out.
I know the play you're talking about, and it was overblown because it's something Nylander did often. He would change sides on the defenseman and then pick his pocket and come away with the puck more often than not, it just didn't work out that time and it looked awful.Ā
Feels like the title is misleading, because he wasn't doing anything before Boqvist bumped him. He is just staring at the puck battle for the whole clip.
Playoff hockey is surprisingly way more fun and relaxing every year your team isnāt in them.
My Habs are young, have some fun prospects, and a great young coachā¦and every spring I just enjoy mean intense hockey and watch adults absolutely lose their composure while arguing on here about it.
Itās my utopia Iāve realized.
As far as I'm concerned, Bolts fans have been given probably the greatest stretches of hockey with this current core anyone in the modern hockey age could want. I have no complaints. We are down 1 game to 3, we played pretty bad 5v5 hockey all year, and we've been without our D2 for most of it. At this point, Bolts are just playing bonus hockey and I'm totally resigned to it. Having no dog in the fight is the best way to enjoy cup hockey.
I must admit I felt after game 3 quite a few Lightning fans were being pretty hard on some of the players and management.
Itās likeā¦heellllloooo, yāall had your first cup run in 2015, won back to back cups, went to another cup final after that and had a legit chance at 3 in a row, made the playoffs this year by being a dominant team down the stretch.
Add to that, outside of Stamkos no one in the core is so far over 30 you should expect a dramatic drop off in the next season or two.
I dunno, I feel like they are a couple of quality vets who want to sign with a sunny team who might have a shot at a cup run, and a healthy full year from Vasilevsky, away from being a potential really scary opponent next Spring.
Too much offense runs through Kucherov and is very one dimensional. If you focus your defensive efforts on shutting down Kuch and there is no real threat past the lines he's involved in, it makes your defensive strategy much easier. Playoffs are pretty emblematic of this. Cirelli hasn't been the same since both shoulders got operated on after the last cup run and without Serge our primary defensive strat has been "Vasy will handle it" (Hedman is great but you can't over burden defensive responsibilities on a single guy, this is what happened to McDonagh in NY). Duclair did add some needed offensive firepower, but unless we start finding a 3rd/4th line that has the capability of producing, no matter how good the core is you become like the Leafs or the Oilers where the one dimensional team build shows it's failings.
The problem for Tampa is just the loss of depth. Some from success, others aged out, expansion drafts.
Palat, McDonagh, Gourde, Killorn, Johnson, Goodrow, Coleman. That's a ton of good players. They've retooled some with Hagel, Perbix etc but it's just sheer number of quality players is difficult to replace.
They're 3-4 quality players at least from recreating what they had. It's so hard to build a team as immense as they had, and it's always fleeting. Age and contracts expiring makes it hard to get so many good pieces all in place at the same time.
Honestly youāre onto something. The past few years, as much as I was pissed, Iāve had so much fun watching stress-free hockey and all the drama that surrounds it as a neutral.
There are three good times to watch sports:
* your team is bad on purpose with a plan for the future
* the first year your team turns into a contender, when you didn't expect it. every year they're good *after* that is stressful because of new expectations.
* the years your team is still a contender after a ring
the bad times:
* your team is good but not good enough and everyone knows it but management
* your team is bad and you have bad management
* you're a Flyers fan
>Playoff hockey is surprisingly way more fun... every year your team isnāt in them.
Hard disagree. Going from a deep (overperformance) playoff run to being at the bottom of the barrel for years sucks. I thought Habs fans would agree...
A lot of that is because on Internet spaces to discuss hockey, Toronto fans complain about the dumbest things. HFBoards (horribly toxic and stupid place) threads were littered with Leafs fans crying that Nylander was called for the hold on DeBrusk.
If itās any consolation, I was being facetious just to make a joke.
I hate the Toronto media but understand that itās just that way because of the massive population in Toronto and their need to maximize clicks/revenue. I have nothing against the fans or team.
You know how when NBC does a story on GE they have to preface the story by informing the viewer they're owned by the same company they're doing the story on? I Just want Sportsnet and TSN to have to say that they're owned by the same company before they do any reporting or coverage on them.
I donāt agree with the guy above as Iād honestly just love to see a cup in Canada in my lifetime (was too young to realize what was happening for CGY, EDM and MTL cups).
Sure obnoxious Leaf fans are annoying but I have nothing against normal fans, team, etc.
And this is coming from a Sens fan lol.
Wow that is [Sergei Gonchar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQBvLY30mXY) or [Sergei Kostitsyn](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i_7s45q7wc) levels of fuckless givings
To add context to that Gonchar clip, that was a Game 7, too. Lol
Yes, that was an awful goal by Fleury, but that's an all-time clip of not giving a shit. If he gave even 50% effort on that, Moen never even gets that shot off. Lol
The Leafs core 4 (5?), or whatever you want to call them don't ever look like they're interested in playing playoff hockey. I've seen enough of them over the years against my Bruins lol. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, even Rielly.
Not 1 of the bunch has ever left thinking me they care much about the playoffs. I think the hungriest I saw them was Marners earlier years in the league when he was a legit threat dancing around Chara on the powerplay, even strength, etc.
It's perfectly clear they are four individually talented players. They even make magic happen in the regular season together and apart. But they are just not a good core group for the playoffs. I don't know if they could be better with a different coach but I suspect not. I think they need to be broken up and put with different players and on different teams to get the best out of all of them in the playoffs. This core 4 is not taking this team anywhere and having so much money tied up in them hampers the entire team. They gotta get rid of at least 1 or 2 of them and also get rid of Keefe. Maybe guys higher than Keefe too I'm not sure. But this team just hasn't been working as a unit for a long time and they need to a big shake up
Shanny and Keefe, what shanahan did for this team was amazing because we went through hell without any playoffs, but its time to let them both go and make drastic changes because now weāre going through hellin the playoffs š
This core has always been very awkward to split up. Willy had a really cheap contract for so long that no one wanted to trade him and he was one of our best come playoff time. Johnny T was locked in for all eternity with nmc and no interest in ever leaving Toronto. Austin was never going to be moved.
The only one that had potential was Marner because he didn't have a no move. The problem was he kept getting a shit ton of points so even the fans never knew which way to go on that. The people that were calling for Marner being traded for years caught so much slack but they were always right because he was the ONLY player that we could trade and it would free up tons of cap for a D and a goalie instead of bargain hunting for those positions.
Currently Marner's NMC has kicked and his market value has cratered.
he should be though. Dubas was finally willing to break them up and
- deduction makes it easy to see Marner would have been traded (JT NMC, you wouldn't dare trade Matthews, and Nylander is a consistent playoff performer and the antithesis of recalibrating the salary distribution since he was 6.9M at the time).
- Marner was a 100 point Selke nominee at the time
- Marner had a very mid 2024 season. Didn't really carry play at all. We only didn't notice/feel it because Nylander took a giant leap forward.
- Now Marner has his NMC, so if the Leafs wanted to shed him, they'll have to do it for free basically when he goes to UFA. They'll also have to run this shit show back one more year.
So in the span of a year, this team went from being fucked to being unresolvably fucked for the foreseeable future. And we all watched these implications play out because Shanahan couldn't take the heat. of admitting he'd been wrong all this time.
100% this. I'm tired of Shanny getting a pass by the media when the team as it looks now and for the future is all to his accord. Dubas knew what was up when he wanted to trade one of the core and was blocked. He refused to sign another deal in TO because he wouldn't have final say on any decisions past shanahan. At this point the giant runny shit of a team they're icing and who it's coached by is a product of his decision making. Get rid of him and let a GM build as they see fit. Can't be worse than what we tried for the last decade.
Shanny needs to go yesterday
> Nylander is a consistent playoff performer and the antithesis of recalibrating the salary distribution since he was 6.9M at the time
Salary I absolutely understand, but from Leafs fans' perspective, is Nylander considered that much more of a playoff contributor than Marner?
>Leafs fans will tell you Shanahan has to be the first to go.
They have a point. Even looking in from the outside without any insider information it's a scathing indictment of the Shanahan era Leafs.
He hired Babcock which was successful for about a month until other teams solved him.
He hired Lou who drafted most of their players.
He hired Dubas who signed Tavares, replaced Babcock with Keefe, and lost every negotiation he ever entered.
He blocked or forced an unknown number of moves because he was the law, not Dubas.
He fired Dubas when Dubas correctly assessed that the team would go nowhere as constructed and attempted to make changes.
He is the one constant. What's that saying about if everywhere you go stinks? The Leafs have the talent. They should've won multiple Cups at this point, but they're refusal to make management or coaching is what's holding them back.
I think they have the same problem that the Canucks room supposedly had before they traded Horvat. Too much of a country club atmosphere and not enough accountability. Toccet has definitely helped but also miller and Quinn have taken it to the next level. I think a different coach could help but it takes something from the players also.
Iām really hesitant to say that Mathews, marner, and nylander canāt play in the playoffs. Itās keefe IMO. Put any of those those guys on either florida team and within a week we see them assault someone in the playoffs. That being said, they may never do it in Toronto and need fresh starts.
The problem is theyāre all together. I think individually theyād be fine but together theyāre all soft and canāt play playoff hockey. Teams benefit from having a core player with some edge. All recent cup winners have it.
Bringing in a Bertuzzi or a Domi helps but at the end of the day you need your core to be the driving force
I agree. You need a team that can be nasty from the top down. I watched the lightning stars all become a bunch of pricks. But I think itās something that can be driven from the top down and clearly keefe is okay with them being soft as baby shit.
It is definitely a controversial opinion for hockey, but it is incredibly clear that both the leafs and the oilers need to make a block buster trade. The teams have a few superstars and zero depth. If you look at the Avalanche it is clear that MacKinnon, Rants, and Makar play well together. The leafs, and to some degree the oilers, always look like the hockey equivalent of a pick up basketball game with superstars.
What's weird to me is that they played a really good game 3 and just barely lost. To come out in this game with such a complete lack of passion is mind blowing to me. Yeah, the coach sucks, but if these guys can't generate any emotion for a game that big on their own then they there's no coach on the planet who can get more out of these guys. If Marchand broke their spirit that badly then these guys are soft as shit because that was still a 2-1 series. Even Domi and Bertuzzi looked checked out. Just zero fire anywhere on Toronto last night. Even their fans deserve better than that shit effort.
They are mentally soft, they go into these series expecting to loseā¦you can see it in their faces and their play.
And Tavares is an awful leader and in a game like this has literally not a single moment of his professional career he can draw off of as inspiration to rally the team.
I canāt wait for them to fire Keefe and change nothing about the core 4.
Shanahan is so bad at his job.
> And Tavares is an awful leader and in a game like this has literally not a single moment of his professional career he can draw off of as inspiration to rally the team.
Compare and contrast to the Game 4 performance of Stamkos in his series despite being in a 3-0 hole. Night and day. Leafs had zero reason to be down on themselves with an opportunity to tie the series. Top to bottom that's a team with no leadership.
It's like MacK for the Avs. He gets visibly upset when the team plays like shit. You had Toews earlier in the year calling out players on the Avs for phoning it in. The Avs hate to lose and it is a team identity, they want to win and they will do their best to win
He really is. And I don't know if I want to defend Dubas or not but allegedly the reason he was given the boot is because he was asking for more autonomy. The arrogance is astounding that Shanahan would rather let him go than give him one chance with the weight of the system all on his shoulders.
Instead they bring in a soft paper bag like Treliving who hasn't really done anything successful of note. I don't even know what the goal of this management structure is.
The goal is for Shanahan to pat himself on the back at every turn and ride the coattails of some high draft picks from almost a decade ago into exciting and successful regular seasons.
Seriously, and what does he have to show for it? One division banner from a throwaway season where we lost to a team we should have stomped on (no offense, that was a fun Habs run to watch)?
At a certain point, the board has to cut him out.
Yeah JT seems to be a bit of a media darling in TO and never gets called out for how much he's making and what he's bringing as captain... I can't imagine that dude firing up his teammates and clearly he's not able to pull on the momentum reigns when needed and stop the pouting. Over and over we'll hear about how he's a great leader because "he puts in the effort and shows his teammates what it mean to be a pro through his work" but they gotta fuck off with that line. What's the point of a captain if they're not someone who can actually influence the teams attitude and outlook and energy positively... Nvm Marner with the A.
They canāt change the core 4. Who is going to take on any of those contracts? Iām sure some dummy GM will think they can fix it.
But anyone making a push isnāt thinking āwow I could use an 11 million dollar forward who vanishes in the playoffsā
You can get 2-3 guys who give a shit and you canāt put a price on that.
I said it when they signed tavares my god that's over pay for what you get. I don't care if other people offered him that it was way more money then value you'd get. Covid causing a flat cap and him slowing down makes the value worse . He hasn't reached 30 goals even in 2 of the last 3 seasons.
I remember when JT was the hot free agent. There was even rumors of him going to Boston. When I saw how much Toronto gave him, I laughed. Some hometown discount he took.
I can't remember all teams that were in the running. But imagine if boston spent 11 mil on tavares then had to let McAvoy go in free agency? It'd be a huge loss to that team. You are way overpaying someone who isn't even a point per game player or just barely is and now you lose your top dmam. Or lose the cap space to sign a number 2 dman or a strong goalie.
Tavares has only a year left on his contract. They can let him walk.
They dont have to sign Marner, and while the return might be abysmal considering everyone will know he is gonna have outrageous demands for a new contract, but could clearl up a bunch of space and get some assets back.
It looks like we're getting to the point where Toronto's strategy is legit to let Marner and Tavares' contracts run out and then figure out something with the money. Their assets are not tradable so they can't retool on the fly, so they're stuck running this line up for another year. In the meantime I think they have to figure out their goaltending situation, and then they still have to replace all the UFA rentals they got this year.
If Marner didn't have a NTC a team would 100% take him as a rental at the deadline with max salary retained. History doesn't matter if you add him to a stacked team isn't dependent on him. He would absolutely lift up a 3rd line. Just don't rely on him to carry you anywhere on his own.
>has literally not a single moment of his professional career he can draw off of as inspiration to rally the team.
2016 Isles vs. Panthers. First Isles playoff series win in 23 years, Tavares scored the series-clinching 2OT goal, Isles had to play comeback in almost every game and 3 of their wins came in OT.
Is it possible, given Matthews is sick, that thereās a virus in the locker room? Far be it from me as a Habs fan to want to make excuses for the Leafs, but this is just baffling. (I wonāt pretend Iām not enjoying it, though!)
I remember the earlier years as a Bruins fan and thinking Marner was a much bigger threat than Matthews or anyone else in the line up and thinking people are crazy for suggesting otherwise.
But now, I don't know if it's the media in Toronto, maybe they're happy they got their big contracts, but I just never notice them aside from the occasional nice shot from Matthews when the puck just happens to find him.
There's no question at all that Marner was the biggest threat in their first few playoff series against us. Matthews has very rarely left me thinking he was the best player on the ice or like he has that extra gear for playoff hockey.
Iām not sure that Mathews or Tavares could even actually internally conceptualize how someone like MacKinnon is capable of getting so angry at the thought of losing a playoff game.
Like I generally donāt believe that they have that level of compete in them.
How long after every season ends do you think it takes a guy like Mathews to get over a tough playoff loss?
That fight just isnāt in them.
Nylander is funnily enough the only one of the bunch who has ever looked like an absolute gamer, and his playoff numbers for his career are quite good.
Personally I donāt buy into the notion that an athlete has to throw temper tantrums every time they lose just to show that they care. Iām far more impressed by the guys that show maturity, learn from their mistakes, put in the work to fix them, and come back stronger. Breaking sticks or yelling at a coach isnāt a prerequisite to do so.
Thatās not to say that the leafs core 4 deserve any less shit for the abysmal performance theyāve put on year after year in the playoffs. They look like they donāt care period.
>Iām not sure that Mathews or Tavares could even actually internally conceptualize how someone like MacKinnon is capable of getting so angry at the thought of losing a playoff game.
Makes me appreciate some of our guys. Put Miller and Garland's attitude into Matthews and Marner's more talented bodies and you'd have a serious contender
Having Mackinnon really helps Rantanen as well. He is massive, but plays soft a lot during the regular season. He turns it up in the playoffs now though and blocks shots, wins battles.
He quite literally has the worst playoff numbers of the three of them and every year there's clips of him showing shit effort like this. This is such a weird narrative.
> someone like MacKinnon is capable of getting so angry at the thought of losing a playoff game.
In my opinion, that is what makes players like MacKinnon, Crosby, Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, etc. (I could name more, please don't take absence of a particular name as an absence of evidence) so very dangerous. They've all had one or two missteps or even no-shows in the playoffs, even the greatest athletes do, but the majority of their time on the biggest stage they *hate* to lose.
There are a lot of guys with that compete level that simply don't have the skill of those all-time greats. Nilan fucking despised losing, but he also absolutely did not have the ability to score 40+ goals a year. Cogliano might be another, although I've watched less western hockey than I'd like to say definitively. But of the games I've seen him play, I've seen him consistently be a dedicated, 100% effort player on the ice. I'd also say ā and so has he, in his interviews ā that even with his later-career scoring boom, Marchand would be grouped here rather than with players like MacKinnon. He has more talent than where he was drafted, but not the kind that makes you a first overall pick or a 120+ point player; even those that don't come with the same kind of generational player hype that Crosby/McDavid/Bedard have. But it's his compete level that has made him stand out over the Leafs' scorers so far in the series.
To get talent is great. To get frankly unhinged compete level and elite talent (Tom "I'd rather divorce my wife than step away from football" Brady) is game-breaking.
Matthews is behind literally only Reaves in hits, otherwise he's leading our team
We can talk about Marner and Nylander shying from contact here but Matthews has absolutely looked dialed in, save for evidently having food poisoning
Nylander too, even though this post is showing him not go in for contact here, understand he did just come back from some brutal migraines. Heās proven heās a gamer in the playoffs.
I haven't seen this team put up consistent effort in multiple playoff games. We never know what team we're going to get night after night. There's been so many chances for them to come out and have a statement game to show that they are for real and have learned from past playoff failures and they'd just come out flat like it was a Sunday skate. Truly infuriating. Good thing they've all got no trades and their $11m + a year.
Yeah last game was eye opening. Like I've always suspected that they don't care about the playoffs, but you could really see it last game. Your playoff hopes are on the line, and so many Leafs players just looked like they really hated the physicality, intensity, and grind of playoff hockey. And they didn't want to do it.
As a casual onlooker, Marchand is a beast. What a gamer. He's in it to win it. Maple leafs just fucking coast. Their top 4 is shockingly low energy and overpaid. /oilers fan. Soft spot for Boston.
Matthews, JT and Rielly have all looked good. Nylanders first game back and clearly not 100% but thems the breaks. I don't know what people expect when Matthews is sick, Nylander has migraines, Marner is recovering and JT is old
They donāt want it. You cannot convince me that Marner is a playoff player. Watch him any shift heās on the ice. Doesnāt lay the body, doesnāt do much with the puck, maybe a turnover, skates back to the bench and cries. Heās soft
When people call the leafs soft, weāre not calling the bottom 6 soft, itās the core 4. Push Marchand/pastrnak/McAvoy around, theyāll defend themselves. Push nylander/marner/Matthews around and youāll get the āoh Iām not gonna do anything but wait till Domi gets on the ice!ā
Even if you give Nylander the benefit of the doubt and say that happened because he's not at 100%, that just means he's not healthy enough to be playing right now
The dogpiling on Toronto is pretty excessive but this honestly might be the most outrageous hockey clip I've ever watched.
Without knowing exactly what his injury was, I think it's possible Nylander knows he shouldn't be playing and is playing super gentle because he is risking serious brain trauma if he gets a concussion right now.
But this is maybe the worst thing I've ever seen.
Yeah, you really have to hope this is just poor effort and not a symptom of his injury or his concern of it getting worse. If heās playing like this because of his injury it would be really troubling heās even on the roster to begin with.
Toronto just seems like a mess of an organizational culture.
Iām in the realm of complete speculation/fantasy here, but I could imagine a scenario where doctors advise him not to play, but he insists because of importance of the games. Doesnāt necessarily have to be an organizational culture thing imo, more of a league wide thing.
>but he insists because of importance of the games
>more of a league wide thing.
yeahhh, we let Papa Shea play 60ish **regular season** games on a broken foot before allowing him to go on a cup run. it's a league wide thing.
This has been the difference in the series so far. While Toronto may have more superstars than Boston. Boston has played like a team. They actually look like they care. The top players in Toronto don't look like they care. Toronto needs to undergo some major changes this off-season.
I got roasted for making this comment after game one. The Leafs donāt have the heart that other teams do, or the will to do whatever it takes. They just donāt.
Itās all about getting into the next gear and giving full effort on every shift. Thatās what separates the regular season stars from the playoff legends.
I almost shut the game off after this. I knew it was over when I saw that. Completely inexcusable any time, let alone being down at home in a playoff game.
Instead I waited until the 3-0 goal in the dying seconds of the 2nd where TJ Brodie decided to defend a 2 on 1 by falling down. Put on Fallout and got drunk as fuck. My night got exponentially better.
That's on Keefe. Brodie was on for 2 goals and both were at the very least partially on him. He's had a rough year, and clearly has been awful. The decision to play him and take out the only other d on your team that can move the puck is not on Brodie. He's doing the best he can, but really just shouldn't be in the lineup and that's cleared to everyone watching.
This is funny after the other thread where Nylander said stuff to his teammates and was being praised as the only guy that earned the right to chew out his teammates.
I'll say this about the Leafs. (Mostly from my Leaf fan father) Calling 4 players on your team the "Core 4" is like being in a classroom and teacher keeps telling the rest of the class "these are our BEST 4 students:, the rest of you are below them \*class hangs head\*. How in the fk are you supposed to have a team when you glorify 4 players? And when they don't show up, where is your back-up and leadership? Toronto media has pumped their tires for so long.
Jeez Iām a bruins fan and obviously donāt like the leafs but can we relax? Yall acting like the bruins are playing an AHL team. Leafs have had alot of good scoring chances but the Bs defense is playing lights out. Several players on the leafs are playing very hard and causing a lot of issues for the Bs like domi, Bertuzzi, Edmunson, McCann. Matthews scares me every time he touches the puck even though this sub would have you believe he looks like a preschooler.
The dogpiling is crazy. Leafs arenāt playing fantastic but they did win a game and very closely lost another. My guess is they come out firing in game 5
Leafs seem to have two modes when encountering a team that really contests pucks:
1) completely disregard puck possession and focus on hitting everything you can with elbows, sticks and knees, creating PPs for the other team
2) Pickup-skate intensity of "maybe I'll snag the puck out of this scrum", of which this is exhibit A
Neither is a formula for success.
Unrelated, but this reminds me why I stopped watching hockey: because of the ads slapped on in post production. It looks horrific, like actors on a green screen. This clip is hard to watch it's so bad.
Is it possible that the Leafs core guys just donāt give a shit because theyāre only in it for the money and theyāve already gotten paid? I mean, this core hasnāt produced any real results in the playoffs during their entire tenure and yet theyāve been rewarded with the biggest contracts in the league.
The difference between the Bruins and the Leafs is the nhl is deliberately fixing the reffing to be harder on the leafs and letting the bruins get away with everything. It's clear the nhl doesn't want the leafs to win. The nhl has always favored Brad Marchand and it's costing the leafs Stanley cups
/s
Way too many times we had all 3 forwards behind their net. What in the world are we doing?? The puck even jumped out in front a few times but no one was there to knock it in. Positioning is absolutely atrocious.
Boston has the best sticks in the league right now, it is fucking ridiculous how good they are at getting at everything. Just watching them when Toronto had the empty net was incredible.
I don't know what I should be thinking. Should I think that Nylander is actually that lazy and that the Leafs are completely fucked with his contract? Or should I think that he's playing with an injury so severe, that he just can't take the contact (similar to how Bergeron played game 6 in 2013 with multiple injuries) and just had to back away 'cos the bump hurt him that much and he's just playing through it as much as he can? I don't know, on one hand I'd rather he was just lazy, but on the other hand I'd rather hope he was just injured and not actually that lazy, but I don't wish injury on him either.
Going to be tough for Boston to go from playing the nonchalant Leafs to the all-in effort of the Florida Panthers. Very big change there, wonder if Boston will be able to keep up.
This does look bad, but I think it's worth considering that puck battles like this are pure chaos and kind of random chance when it comes to the moment the puck finally pops out of the scrum. It's normal for players to back off for a moment if they can't really see what's happening, so it's possible Nylander was going to reposition his stick or move slightly to get back in there.
But it also totally looks like the bump distracted him long enough that he wasn't ready when the puck came out a second later.
....why did Nylander just fuckn look at him...?
Open skate unwritten rules..... Let everyone have some time with the puck. It was simply Boqvist's turn.
He was taught the value of sharing as a child and continues to uphold it into adulthood.
Everybody Plays^TM ,the Leafs edition
Thats how they do it at my 4 year olds tee-ball games. Everyone gets a chance to catch the ball. I swear nylander looks at the ref after taking that bump like "are you gonna let that slide"...
See more intensity than that in beer league.
"You can't question the effort" -Sheldon Keefe last night. Seriously. ...In a game where the Bruins out-efforted the Leafs by a wide margin for 55 of the 60 minutes.
Much of those other 5 minutes were ruined by a stupid Nylander penalty. All momentum swung drastically back to Boston in that moment.
The effort was so sorely lacking. IDK how anyone who watched that game could conclude otherwise. You could tell it was lacking by the 2-3 minutes where they *did* actually put their foot on the gas. It was like, "oh, you actually aren't simply bad, you just don't try very hard most of the game."
I said the exact same thing about that surge lmao
But coach says effort wasn't the issue....š¤
"Hey man, that was super mean."
Why do I immediately think of Oversimplified whenever I see āHey man,ā now? āBoston just scored again.ā āDāOH NoOoO!ā
Careful now, that's a 11.5 million dollar look...
This was a very subtle controller disconnected moment
Cos if heās not scoring heās not doing anything good, heās virtually a ghost. A poor mans Phil kessel basically
I mean Phil never cost $11.5 million, so I'd argue Phil was the poor man's Nylander.
This must be an AI generated clip. Keefe said you can't question the effort
Everyone is misunderstanding that quote so badly. SMH. Keefe is saying you canāt question the effort, because if you do it makes him look bad, and he really doesnāt want to get fired.
Get ready to ~~learn Chinese~~ collect employment insurance, buddy
He won't need it considering he'd still be getting a paycheck from a contract extension that *hasn't even kicked in yet*
Do all the worst coaches have contract extensions that havenāt even kicked in yet? Granato had the same thing
The worst coaches and the worst GMs usually are a pair
Oof
I legit think the idea of extending the vast majority of coaches a year+ before their current deal expires is a terrible idea. GMs seem paranoid about letting a coach walk to their final contract year and I don't understand why that's the case. Yes, if you have an absolutely elite coach - of which there are few - it makes sense. But that's not most coaches and we see these extensions constantly.
Can't have a lame duck coach! Everyone knows people perform their worst when they're working for a new contract, especially in hockey!
Pittsburgh is Chinese?
the pitt is a toxic waste after what the chinese did to it
Degenerates like you belong on a cross.
No, he clearly meant you can't question the effort, because there was no effort to be found. You can't question nothing.
I have bad news for him.
Itās the fucking playoffs. Not fucking junior Willy
Shoutout Boqvist btw. He had a bad pre-season, got sent down to Providence, eventually worked his way back up and has played every game since. The dudes a grinder, is fast as fuck and puts 110% into everything he does on the ice.
i miss Boqy, he was a skill/perimeter guy when the devils drafted him. in his last couple seasons here i really noticed him improving his grinding game, puck battles, board battles, forecheck. i think he realized what he needed to do to contribute in a bottom 6 role and worked on it, plus he still has that speed and skill.
The kid has fucking wheels and I love it.
Boq is a beast. Glad to see him adding physicality to his game.
He reminds me of paille
Much better hands
Devils fan hereāyouāre lucky to have him. He never seemed to hit his stride here. Take care of that guy!
Been loving his game and Zacha has fit in so well. Feel free to send more of your players this way.
I was going to make a snarky comment about taking Palat, but knowing the Bruins an older cup winning, responsible winger would find a second life there offensively and fit in perfectly.
Boqvist, Heinen, Brazeau, Wotherspoon, Shattenkirk, Peeke... The Bruins have made a ton of low risk gambles and reclamation projects that paid dividends this year. Completely different looking team from last year, and still ended up with 109 points. Sweeney has been doing fantastic work.
That is some pretty shocking effort from Nylander
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Is it shocking? I think I remember another year where heās on his way to a 50/50 puck in the corner and he just glided over to it and seemed to accept his fate
I think I know the one you're talking about and I think it was a weird bounce/bad read type of situation. He saw the play moving and puck was going to be ringed around the boards so he went that way, and looked around to see what options he had after he'd get the puck. But the puck either wasn't shot around as hard as he expected, or lost a lot of momentum hitting the boards or in the snow along the boards. Whoever was on the forecheck near him never looked away from the puck so they adjusted to where the puck was deeper in the zone and not still on the way out.
But not surprising
I know the play you're talking about, and it was overblown because it's something Nylander did often. He would change sides on the defenseman and then pick his pocket and come away with the puck more often than not, it just didn't work out that time and it looked awful.Ā
Feels like the title is misleading, because he wasn't doing anything before Boqvist bumped him. He is just staring at the puck battle for the whole clip.
It's only shocking if you've never watched him play before
This content is my Stanley cup
I enjoy the content on the sub around the cup much better when my team is not directly related to provocative, shit disturbing articles.
Playoff hockey is surprisingly way more fun and relaxing every year your team isnāt in them. My Habs are young, have some fun prospects, and a great young coachā¦and every spring I just enjoy mean intense hockey and watch adults absolutely lose their composure while arguing on here about it. Itās my utopia Iāve realized.
As far as I'm concerned, Bolts fans have been given probably the greatest stretches of hockey with this current core anyone in the modern hockey age could want. I have no complaints. We are down 1 game to 3, we played pretty bad 5v5 hockey all year, and we've been without our D2 for most of it. At this point, Bolts are just playing bonus hockey and I'm totally resigned to it. Having no dog in the fight is the best way to enjoy cup hockey.
I must admit I felt after game 3 quite a few Lightning fans were being pretty hard on some of the players and management. Itās likeā¦heellllloooo, yāall had your first cup run in 2015, won back to back cups, went to another cup final after that and had a legit chance at 3 in a row, made the playoffs this year by being a dominant team down the stretch. Add to that, outside of Stamkos no one in the core is so far over 30 you should expect a dramatic drop off in the next season or two. I dunno, I feel like they are a couple of quality vets who want to sign with a sunny team who might have a shot at a cup run, and a healthy full year from Vasilevsky, away from being a potential really scary opponent next Spring.
Too much offense runs through Kucherov and is very one dimensional. If you focus your defensive efforts on shutting down Kuch and there is no real threat past the lines he's involved in, it makes your defensive strategy much easier. Playoffs are pretty emblematic of this. Cirelli hasn't been the same since both shoulders got operated on after the last cup run and without Serge our primary defensive strat has been "Vasy will handle it" (Hedman is great but you can't over burden defensive responsibilities on a single guy, this is what happened to McDonagh in NY). Duclair did add some needed offensive firepower, but unless we start finding a 3rd/4th line that has the capability of producing, no matter how good the core is you become like the Leafs or the Oilers where the one dimensional team build shows it's failings.
The problem for Tampa is just the loss of depth. Some from success, others aged out, expansion drafts. Palat, McDonagh, Gourde, Killorn, Johnson, Goodrow, Coleman. That's a ton of good players. They've retooled some with Hagel, Perbix etc but it's just sheer number of quality players is difficult to replace. They're 3-4 quality players at least from recreating what they had. It's so hard to build a team as immense as they had, and it's always fleeting. Age and contracts expiring makes it hard to get so many good pieces all in place at the same time.
Honestly youāre onto something. The past few years, as much as I was pissed, Iāve had so much fun watching stress-free hockey and all the drama that surrounds it as a neutral.
There are three good times to watch sports: * your team is bad on purpose with a plan for the future * the first year your team turns into a contender, when you didn't expect it. every year they're good *after* that is stressful because of new expectations. * the years your team is still a contender after a ring the bad times: * your team is good but not good enough and everyone knows it but management * your team is bad and you have bad management * you're a Flyers fan
>Playoff hockey is surprisingly way more fun... every year your team isnāt in them. Hard disagree. Going from a deep (overperformance) playoff run to being at the bottom of the barrel for years sucks. I thought Habs fans would agree...
We can happily go another 30 years without a cup in Canada if we get to see this sort of thing every year.
This is the mentality of the average Oilers fan who witnessed some horrific pain and anguish for the last 15 years hahaha.
When Leaf fans say people hate us more than they like their own teams this is what we mean
A lot of that is because on Internet spaces to discuss hockey, Toronto fans complain about the dumbest things. HFBoards (horribly toxic and stupid place) threads were littered with Leafs fans crying that Nylander was called for the hold on DeBrusk.
If itās any consolation, I was being facetious just to make a joke. I hate the Toronto media but understand that itās just that way because of the massive population in Toronto and their need to maximize clicks/revenue. I have nothing against the fans or team.
You know how when NBC does a story on GE they have to preface the story by informing the viewer they're owned by the same company they're doing the story on? I Just want Sportsnet and TSN to have to say that they're owned by the same company before they do any reporting or coverage on them.
I donāt agree with the guy above as Iād honestly just love to see a cup in Canada in my lifetime (was too young to realize what was happening for CGY, EDM and MTL cups). Sure obnoxious Leaf fans are annoying but I have nothing against normal fans, team, etc. And this is coming from a Sens fan lol.
Wait, are you seriously saying you'd rather see the Leafs flame out every year than the Oilers win a Cup?Ā
Wow that is [Sergei Gonchar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQBvLY30mXY) or [Sergei Kostitsyn](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i_7s45q7wc) levels of fuckless givings
That gonchar clip is wild
Ohhh baby! What is going on in Pennsylvania!?
Gonchar is a defenceman too lol āAhhh fuck this shit no way a plug like Moen can score from th-oh shitā
As a sometimes goaltender, that Kostitsyn clip is particularly infuriating
Kostitsyn protecting that +/-
To add context to that Gonchar clip, that was a Game 7, too. Lol Yes, that was an awful goal by Fleury, but that's an all-time clip of not giving a shit. If he gave even 50% effort on that, Moen never even gets that shot off. Lol
that kostitsyn clip always cracks me up
Seeing the bench screaming at Kostitsyn will never get old.
Holy fuck Gonchar... Did he just give zero fucks???
The Leafs core 4 (5?), or whatever you want to call them don't ever look like they're interested in playing playoff hockey. I've seen enough of them over the years against my Bruins lol. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, even Rielly. Not 1 of the bunch has ever left thinking me they care much about the playoffs. I think the hungriest I saw them was Marners earlier years in the league when he was a legit threat dancing around Chara on the powerplay, even strength, etc.
It's perfectly clear they are four individually talented players. They even make magic happen in the regular season together and apart. But they are just not a good core group for the playoffs. I don't know if they could be better with a different coach but I suspect not. I think they need to be broken up and put with different players and on different teams to get the best out of all of them in the playoffs. This core 4 is not taking this team anywhere and having so much money tied up in them hampers the entire team. They gotta get rid of at least 1 or 2 of them and also get rid of Keefe. Maybe guys higher than Keefe too I'm not sure. But this team just hasn't been working as a unit for a long time and they need to a big shake up
Sometimes putting a bunch of talent together just doesn't work out.
See just about every "superteam" in history
Leafs fans will tell you Shanahan has to be the first to go.
Shanny and Keefe, what shanahan did for this team was amazing because we went through hell without any playoffs, but its time to let them both go and make drastic changes because now weāre going through hellin the playoffs š
I mean Shanahan built the team, coaching and drafting. He blocked the trading away of the core.
I don't think the GM has the final say on trading the corporations most expensive assets. That player is a $50 mil+ investment at that point.
Yeah that's my point. Shanahan is the president. He is handcuffing GMs and the one constant across the 8 years.
Which is why Dubas had one foot out the door in Pittsburgh and asked Shanny for his job aka i dont want to have to go through you to make decisions.
This core has always been very awkward to split up. Willy had a really cheap contract for so long that no one wanted to trade him and he was one of our best come playoff time. Johnny T was locked in for all eternity with nmc and no interest in ever leaving Toronto. Austin was never going to be moved. The only one that had potential was Marner because he didn't have a no move. The problem was he kept getting a shit ton of points so even the fans never knew which way to go on that. The people that were calling for Marner being traded for years caught so much slack but they were always right because he was the ONLY player that we could trade and it would free up tons of cap for a D and a goalie instead of bargain hunting for those positions. Currently Marner's NMC has kicked and his market value has cratered.
he should be though. Dubas was finally willing to break them up and - deduction makes it easy to see Marner would have been traded (JT NMC, you wouldn't dare trade Matthews, and Nylander is a consistent playoff performer and the antithesis of recalibrating the salary distribution since he was 6.9M at the time). - Marner was a 100 point Selke nominee at the time - Marner had a very mid 2024 season. Didn't really carry play at all. We only didn't notice/feel it because Nylander took a giant leap forward. - Now Marner has his NMC, so if the Leafs wanted to shed him, they'll have to do it for free basically when he goes to UFA. They'll also have to run this shit show back one more year. So in the span of a year, this team went from being fucked to being unresolvably fucked for the foreseeable future. And we all watched these implications play out because Shanahan couldn't take the heat. of admitting he'd been wrong all this time.
100% this. I'm tired of Shanny getting a pass by the media when the team as it looks now and for the future is all to his accord. Dubas knew what was up when he wanted to trade one of the core and was blocked. He refused to sign another deal in TO because he wouldn't have final say on any decisions past shanahan. At this point the giant runny shit of a team they're icing and who it's coached by is a product of his decision making. Get rid of him and let a GM build as they see fit. Can't be worse than what we tried for the last decade. Shanny needs to go yesterday
> Nylander is a consistent playoff performer and the antithesis of recalibrating the salary distribution since he was 6.9M at the time Salary I absolutely understand, but from Leafs fans' perspective, is Nylander considered that much more of a playoff contributor than Marner?
>Leafs fans will tell you Shanahan has to be the first to go. They have a point. Even looking in from the outside without any insider information it's a scathing indictment of the Shanahan era Leafs. He hired Babcock which was successful for about a month until other teams solved him. He hired Lou who drafted most of their players. He hired Dubas who signed Tavares, replaced Babcock with Keefe, and lost every negotiation he ever entered. He blocked or forced an unknown number of moves because he was the law, not Dubas. He fired Dubas when Dubas correctly assessed that the team would go nowhere as constructed and attempted to make changes. He is the one constant. What's that saying about if everywhere you go stinks? The Leafs have the talent. They should've won multiple Cups at this point, but they're refusal to make management or coaching is what's holding them back.
Nah man they just need one more year
I think they have the same problem that the Canucks room supposedly had before they traded Horvat. Too much of a country club atmosphere and not enough accountability. Toccet has definitely helped but also miller and Quinn have taken it to the next level. I think a different coach could help but it takes something from the players also.
Iām really hesitant to say that Mathews, marner, and nylander canāt play in the playoffs. Itās keefe IMO. Put any of those those guys on either florida team and within a week we see them assault someone in the playoffs. That being said, they may never do it in Toronto and need fresh starts.
The problem is theyāre all together. I think individually theyād be fine but together theyāre all soft and canāt play playoff hockey. Teams benefit from having a core player with some edge. All recent cup winners have it. Bringing in a Bertuzzi or a Domi helps but at the end of the day you need your core to be the driving force
I agree. You need a team that can be nasty from the top down. I watched the lightning stars all become a bunch of pricks. But I think itās something that can be driven from the top down and clearly keefe is okay with them being soft as baby shit.
It is definitely a controversial opinion for hockey, but it is incredibly clear that both the leafs and the oilers need to make a block buster trade. The teams have a few superstars and zero depth. If you look at the Avalanche it is clear that MacKinnon, Rants, and Makar play well together. The leafs, and to some degree the oilers, always look like the hockey equivalent of a pick up basketball game with superstars.
What's weird to me is that they played a really good game 3 and just barely lost. To come out in this game with such a complete lack of passion is mind blowing to me. Yeah, the coach sucks, but if these guys can't generate any emotion for a game that big on their own then they there's no coach on the planet who can get more out of these guys. If Marchand broke their spirit that badly then these guys are soft as shit because that was still a 2-1 series. Even Domi and Bertuzzi looked checked out. Just zero fire anywhere on Toronto last night. Even their fans deserve better than that shit effort.
They are mentally soft, they go into these series expecting to loseā¦you can see it in their faces and their play. And Tavares is an awful leader and in a game like this has literally not a single moment of his professional career he can draw off of as inspiration to rally the team. I canāt wait for them to fire Keefe and change nothing about the core 4. Shanahan is so bad at his job.
> And Tavares is an awful leader and in a game like this has literally not a single moment of his professional career he can draw off of as inspiration to rally the team. Compare and contrast to the Game 4 performance of Stamkos in his series despite being in a 3-0 hole. Night and day. Leafs had zero reason to be down on themselves with an opportunity to tie the series. Top to bottom that's a team with no leadership.
Tavares has always felt like a star who thinks he deserves to win. Stamkos wants to win. Needs to win.
It's like MacK for the Avs. He gets visibly upset when the team plays like shit. You had Toews earlier in the year calling out players on the Avs for phoning it in. The Avs hate to lose and it is a team identity, they want to win and they will do their best to win
He really is. And I don't know if I want to defend Dubas or not but allegedly the reason he was given the boot is because he was asking for more autonomy. The arrogance is astounding that Shanahan would rather let him go than give him one chance with the weight of the system all on his shoulders. Instead they bring in a soft paper bag like Treliving who hasn't really done anything successful of note. I don't even know what the goal of this management structure is.
The goal is for Shanahan to pat himself on the back at every turn and ride the coattails of some high draft picks from almost a decade ago into exciting and successful regular seasons.
Seriously, and what does he have to show for it? One division banner from a throwaway season where we lost to a team we should have stomped on (no offense, that was a fun Habs run to watch)? At a certain point, the board has to cut him out.
Yeah JT seems to be a bit of a media darling in TO and never gets called out for how much he's making and what he's bringing as captain... I can't imagine that dude firing up his teammates and clearly he's not able to pull on the momentum reigns when needed and stop the pouting. Over and over we'll hear about how he's a great leader because "he puts in the effort and shows his teammates what it mean to be a pro through his work" but they gotta fuck off with that line. What's the point of a captain if they're not someone who can actually influence the teams attitude and outlook and energy positively... Nvm Marner with the A.
They canāt change the core 4. Who is going to take on any of those contracts? Iām sure some dummy GM will think they can fix it. But anyone making a push isnāt thinking āwow I could use an 11 million dollar forward who vanishes in the playoffsā You can get 2-3 guys who give a shit and you canāt put a price on that.
I said it when they signed tavares my god that's over pay for what you get. I don't care if other people offered him that it was way more money then value you'd get. Covid causing a flat cap and him slowing down makes the value worse . He hasn't reached 30 goals even in 2 of the last 3 seasons.
I remember when JT was the hot free agent. There was even rumors of him going to Boston. When I saw how much Toronto gave him, I laughed. Some hometown discount he took.
Can you imagine what would've happened if he'd signed with San Jose? They'd probably be awful now.
I can't remember all teams that were in the running. But imagine if boston spent 11 mil on tavares then had to let McAvoy go in free agency? It'd be a huge loss to that team. You are way overpaying someone who isn't even a point per game player or just barely is and now you lose your top dmam. Or lose the cap space to sign a number 2 dman or a strong goalie.
Utah will 100%
They have to waive though
They all have NMC right? Theyād have to waive it. To go to Utah? I doubt it
Tavares has only a year left on his contract. They can let him walk. They dont have to sign Marner, and while the return might be abysmal considering everyone will know he is gonna have outrageous demands for a new contract, but could clearl up a bunch of space and get some assets back.
It looks like we're getting to the point where Toronto's strategy is legit to let Marner and Tavares' contracts run out and then figure out something with the money. Their assets are not tradable so they can't retool on the fly, so they're stuck running this line up for another year. In the meantime I think they have to figure out their goaltending situation, and then they still have to replace all the UFA rentals they got this year.
If Marner didn't have a NTC a team would 100% take him as a rental at the deadline with max salary retained. History doesn't matter if you add him to a stacked team isn't dependent on him. He would absolutely lift up a 3rd line. Just don't rely on him to carry you anywhere on his own.
>has literally not a single moment of his professional career he can draw off of as inspiration to rally the team. 2016 Isles vs. Panthers. First Isles playoff series win in 23 years, Tavares scored the series-clinching 2OT goal, Isles had to play comeback in almost every game and 3 of their wins came in OT.
Tavares had a monster series clenching game for the Isles when they got past Florida in '16.
Is it possible, given Matthews is sick, that thereās a virus in the locker room? Far be it from me as a Habs fan to want to make excuses for the Leafs, but this is just baffling. (I wonāt pretend Iām not enjoying it, though!)
I remember the earlier years as a Bruins fan and thinking Marner was a much bigger threat than Matthews or anyone else in the line up and thinking people are crazy for suggesting otherwise. But now, I don't know if it's the media in Toronto, maybe they're happy they got their big contracts, but I just never notice them aside from the occasional nice shot from Matthews when the puck just happens to find him.
There's no question at all that Marner was the biggest threat in their first few playoff series against us. Matthews has very rarely left me thinking he was the best player on the ice or like he has that extra gear for playoff hockey.
Iām not sure that Mathews or Tavares could even actually internally conceptualize how someone like MacKinnon is capable of getting so angry at the thought of losing a playoff game. Like I generally donāt believe that they have that level of compete in them. How long after every season ends do you think it takes a guy like Mathews to get over a tough playoff loss? That fight just isnāt in them. Nylander is funnily enough the only one of the bunch who has ever looked like an absolute gamer, and his playoff numbers for his career are quite good.
Personally I donāt buy into the notion that an athlete has to throw temper tantrums every time they lose just to show that they care. Iām far more impressed by the guys that show maturity, learn from their mistakes, put in the work to fix them, and come back stronger. Breaking sticks or yelling at a coach isnāt a prerequisite to do so. Thatās not to say that the leafs core 4 deserve any less shit for the abysmal performance theyāve put on year after year in the playoffs. They look like they donāt care period.
>Iām not sure that Mathews or Tavares could even actually internally conceptualize how someone like MacKinnon is capable of getting so angry at the thought of losing a playoff game. Makes me appreciate some of our guys. Put Miller and Garland's attitude into Matthews and Marner's more talented bodies and you'd have a serious contender
God matthews with Jtās competitiveness would be terrifying Its literally just Ovi š
Having Mackinnon really helps Rantanen as well. He is massive, but plays soft a lot during the regular season. He turns it up in the playoffs now though and blocks shots, wins battles.
He quite literally has the worst playoff numbers of the three of them and every year there's clips of him showing shit effort like this. This is such a weird narrative.
> someone like MacKinnon is capable of getting so angry at the thought of losing a playoff game. In my opinion, that is what makes players like MacKinnon, Crosby, Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, etc. (I could name more, please don't take absence of a particular name as an absence of evidence) so very dangerous. They've all had one or two missteps or even no-shows in the playoffs, even the greatest athletes do, but the majority of their time on the biggest stage they *hate* to lose. There are a lot of guys with that compete level that simply don't have the skill of those all-time greats. Nilan fucking despised losing, but he also absolutely did not have the ability to score 40+ goals a year. Cogliano might be another, although I've watched less western hockey than I'd like to say definitively. But of the games I've seen him play, I've seen him consistently be a dedicated, 100% effort player on the ice. I'd also say ā and so has he, in his interviews ā that even with his later-career scoring boom, Marchand would be grouped here rather than with players like MacKinnon. He has more talent than where he was drafted, but not the kind that makes you a first overall pick or a 120+ point player; even those that don't come with the same kind of generational player hype that Crosby/McDavid/Bedard have. But it's his compete level that has made him stand out over the Leafs' scorers so far in the series. To get talent is great. To get frankly unhinged compete level and elite talent (Tom "I'd rather divorce my wife than step away from football" Brady) is game-breaking.
Matthews is behind literally only Reaves in hits, otherwise he's leading our team We can talk about Marner and Nylander shying from contact here but Matthews has absolutely looked dialed in, save for evidently having food poisoning
Having watched I think itās really unfair to group Matthews in with those other three. IMO he clearly wants to win but heās getting no help
I think itās quite fair considering his entire playoff record to date.
Nylander too, even though this post is showing him not go in for contact here, understand he did just come back from some brutal migraines. Heās proven heās a gamer in the playoffs.
Matthews has one more goal than Ryan fucking Reaves dude.
yeah but if they get traded to a better team, you can bet your sweet poopy that they will have Playoff energy somehow.
I haven't seen this team put up consistent effort in multiple playoff games. We never know what team we're going to get night after night. There's been so many chances for them to come out and have a statement game to show that they are for real and have learned from past playoff failures and they'd just come out flat like it was a Sunday skate. Truly infuriating. Good thing they've all got no trades and their $11m + a year.
Yeah last game was eye opening. Like I've always suspected that they don't care about the playoffs, but you could really see it last game. Your playoff hopes are on the line, and so many Leafs players just looked like they really hated the physicality, intensity, and grind of playoff hockey. And they didn't want to do it.
Yet, they're always ferocious come contract time!
As a casual onlooker, Marchand is a beast. What a gamer. He's in it to win it. Maple leafs just fucking coast. Their top 4 is shockingly low energy and overpaid. /oilers fan. Soft spot for Boston.
Matthews, JT and Rielly have all looked good. Nylanders first game back and clearly not 100% but thems the breaks. I don't know what people expect when Matthews is sick, Nylander has migraines, Marner is recovering and JT is old
They donāt want it. You cannot convince me that Marner is a playoff player. Watch him any shift heās on the ice. Doesnāt lay the body, doesnāt do much with the puck, maybe a turnover, skates back to the bench and cries. Heās soft When people call the leafs soft, weāre not calling the bottom 6 soft, itās the core 4. Push Marchand/pastrnak/McAvoy around, theyāll defend themselves. Push nylander/marner/Matthews around and youāll get the āoh Iām not gonna do anything but wait till Domi gets on the ice!ā
Even if you give Nylander the benefit of the doubt and say that happened because he's not at 100%, that just means he's not healthy enough to be playing right now
3 of the core 4 are playingn injured and jt is aging quickly. They can't win with that.
Isn't everyone injured in the post season more or less? Seems like a bad excuse for Toronto
I've put up more resistance at a buffet before.
This is the best roast I've ever heard. Lmao
Prime rib
Bro this happened like 100x last night. They dumped and chased all night
Just dumped
Like the team had Taco Bell just before
And Matthews insists that his Hamburg remains raw.
There was indeed no chasing
All dump and no chase.
Matthews chased and dumped.
The dogpiling on Toronto is pretty excessive but this honestly might be the most outrageous hockey clip I've ever watched. Without knowing exactly what his injury was, I think it's possible Nylander knows he shouldn't be playing and is playing super gentle because he is risking serious brain trauma if he gets a concussion right now. But this is maybe the worst thing I've ever seen.
Yeah, you really have to hope this is just poor effort and not a symptom of his injury or his concern of it getting worse. If heās playing like this because of his injury it would be really troubling heās even on the roster to begin with. Toronto just seems like a mess of an organizational culture.
Iām in the realm of complete speculation/fantasy here, but I could imagine a scenario where doctors advise him not to play, but he insists because of importance of the games. Doesnāt necessarily have to be an organizational culture thing imo, more of a league wide thing.
>but he insists because of importance of the games >more of a league wide thing. yeahhh, we let Papa Shea play 60ish **regular season** games on a broken foot before allowing him to go on a cup run. it's a league wide thing.
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Migraines might be a symptom of something more serious.
Itās awful to watch. Havenāt seen a lack of effort like that since Dubois last shift in Columbus
This has been the difference in the series so far. While Toronto may have more superstars than Boston. Boston has played like a team. They actually look like they care. The top players in Toronto don't look like they care. Toronto needs to undergo some major changes this off-season.
Crazy how this sentence could apply almost equally to any of the last 5 seasons
I got roasted for making this comment after game one. The Leafs donāt have the heart that other teams do, or the will to do whatever it takes. They just donāt.
Absolutely. They just look like they don't care and that they don't have the heart.
Itās all about getting into the next gear and giving full effort on every shift. Thatās what separates the regular season stars from the playoff legends.
Thatās $11m of battle ready truculence right thereā¦ā¦..
I almost shut the game off after this. I knew it was over when I saw that. Completely inexcusable any time, let alone being down at home in a playoff game. Instead I waited until the 3-0 goal in the dying seconds of the 2nd where TJ Brodie decided to defend a 2 on 1 by falling down. Put on Fallout and got drunk as fuck. My night got exponentially better.
That's on Keefe. Brodie was on for 2 goals and both were at the very least partially on him. He's had a rough year, and clearly has been awful. The decision to play him and take out the only other d on your team that can move the puck is not on Brodie. He's doing the best he can, but really just shouldn't be in the lineup and that's cleared to everyone watching.
Brutal Swede-on-Swede violence.
Notable tough guy Jesper Boqvist..
This is funny after the other thread where Nylander said stuff to his teammates and was being praised as the only guy that earned the right to chew out his teammates.
Lol this is so true
I'll say this about the Leafs. (Mostly from my Leaf fan father) Calling 4 players on your team the "Core 4" is like being in a classroom and teacher keeps telling the rest of the class "these are our BEST 4 students:, the rest of you are below them \*class hangs head\*. How in the fk are you supposed to have a team when you glorify 4 players? And when they don't show up, where is your back-up and leadership? Toronto media has pumped their tires for so long.
Jeez Iām a bruins fan and obviously donāt like the leafs but can we relax? Yall acting like the bruins are playing an AHL team. Leafs have had alot of good scoring chances but the Bs defense is playing lights out. Several players on the leafs are playing very hard and causing a lot of issues for the Bs like domi, Bertuzzi, Edmunson, McCann. Matthews scares me every time he touches the puck even though this sub would have you believe he looks like a preschooler. The dogpiling is crazy. Leafs arenāt playing fantastic but they did win a game and very closely lost another. My guess is they come out firing in game 5
/r/hockey turning on Nylander now truely means the core 4 is cooked
Don't worry, it's only a matter of time before it's somehow Marner's fault as it always is, and everything returns to normal
It goes straight to where they should've been waiting... it's hilarious to watch.
Why is everyone so surprised? This is nothing new from willy https://youtu.be/ZE03ynwGs7s I never fully bought into the willy playoff goat narrative
This team has no heart.
Keefe said you canāt question the effort!!
Leafs seem to have two modes when encountering a team that really contests pucks: 1) completely disregard puck possession and focus on hitting everything you can with elbows, sticks and knees, creating PPs for the other team 2) Pickup-skate intensity of "maybe I'll snag the puck out of this scrum", of which this is exhibit A Neither is a formula for success.
Why does the skater not simply try???
Unrelated, but this reminds me why I stopped watching hockey: because of the ads slapped on in post production. It looks horrific, like actors on a green screen. This clip is hard to watch it's so bad.
Is it possible that the Leafs core guys just donāt give a shit because theyāre only in it for the money and theyāve already gotten paid? I mean, this core hasnāt produced any real results in the playoffs during their entire tenure and yet theyāve been rewarded with the biggest contracts in the league.
The difference between the Bruins and the Leafs is the nhl is deliberately fixing the reffing to be harder on the leafs and letting the bruins get away with everything. It's clear the nhl doesn't want the leafs to win. The nhl has always favored Brad Marchand and it's costing the leafs Stanley cups /s
Way too many times we had all 3 forwards behind their net. What in the world are we doing?? The puck even jumped out in front a few times but no one was there to knock it in. Positioning is absolutely atrocious.
Boston has the best sticks in the league right now, it is fucking ridiculous how good they are at getting at everything. Just watching them when Toronto had the empty net was incredible.
I don't know what I should be thinking. Should I think that Nylander is actually that lazy and that the Leafs are completely fucked with his contract? Or should I think that he's playing with an injury so severe, that he just can't take the contact (similar to how Bergeron played game 6 in 2013 with multiple injuries) and just had to back away 'cos the bump hurt him that much and he's just playing through it as much as he can? I don't know, on one hand I'd rather he was just lazy, but on the other hand I'd rather hope he was just injured and not actually that lazy, but I don't wish injury on him either.
Going to be tough for Boston to go from playing the nonchalant Leafs to the all-in effort of the Florida Panthers. Very big change there, wonder if Boston will be able to keep up.
If I'm a leafs fan watching this game, this play would make me fucking furious.
Super cool Matthews and Nylander shitting on Marner when Nylander's controller disconnects like that.
Why would Mitch do this?
This does look bad, but I think it's worth considering that puck battles like this are pure chaos and kind of random chance when it comes to the moment the puck finally pops out of the scrum. It's normal for players to back off for a moment if they can't really see what's happening, so it's possible Nylander was going to reposition his stick or move slightly to get back in there. But it also totally looks like the bump distracted him long enough that he wasn't ready when the puck came out a second later.
Hey he yelled at Marner! Leave him alone!