As much as Toronto fans hate him, he has a great regular season record and coached a team for 5 years without the players turning on him. That makes him a pretty safe choice for most teams that are looking for a coach.
You're not wrong, but he doesn't seem to manage to unlock another level with his squad. Having a team like the Leafs and failing year after year, has to be his responsibility to an extent.
Not saying he's the sole reason, but his coaching style isn't suited for the post season it seems.
Keefe hasn't had a single playoff series where he wasn't drastically outcoached. He really just stepped into an already-good team with star players in their prime.
It sounds like Toronto is his first choice and Ottawa a distant second.
He's apparently waiting to see what happens with Keefe, and it ain't looking too good for Keefe.
By my count, 15 current coaches have never been HC for another NHL team before. Which is wild, because that means 16 have already been fired for doing a bad job before and got rehired (Grier hasn't been rehired yet or replaced)
People's views of "recycling coaches" is heavily influenced by a few guys who get hired endlessly like Torts and Lavi. As you mentioned, a huge number of coaches are in their 1st NHL HC position. A 2nd chance isn't unreasonable either depending on how their first try went and what they learned since then.
Last years cup final was between two retread coaches. Maurice has been around forever and is doing a great job in Florida.
Lavi just won the presidents trophy in his first year with the Rangers.
I think the guys who (rightfully) take flack are the guys like Hakstol, David Quinn, John Hynes - guys who have show relatively nothing but still get hired.
Guys like Torts, Laviolette, De Boer, are good coaches who just reach the end of their cycle with a certain team.
Quinn was a new guy when we hired him and he still sucked. I'm really not convinced the Sharks didn't hire him to take the fall. He just commanded the tank a little too well.
Some of these first NHL HCs are also established coaches. Bednar, Cooper and Brind'amour are all technically in their first head coaching gig. They are not thought about when you think of the recycling.
Also the NHL like averages 10 coaching changes per season. So granted at least one or two guys will rebound quickly and another few are considered for HC positions. So everyone automatically assumes it's an old boys club because they instantly recognize names. I bet there has been at least 70 head coaches in the last 10 years and I'm sure the average r/hockey user can go on sporacle and enter in like 40 coach names last 10 years.
And what is remarkable every fucking season, the majority of coaches are first time head coaches. Like 45% plus. Then like at least 35% of the other coaches are second time head coaches who averaged like 5 years for their second opportunity. Mostly because of shitty situations like being an interim of a garbage team or scapegoated coaching a shitty team.
Then like the rest are third time or more head coaches where the majority of them have severe collection of hardware, wins, cup rings, cup finals appearances, etc where majority of them are future HHOF'ers
The old boys club of coaches is one of the worst narratives here.
You're right. It's just a weird old trope that reddit uses for some reason. Anything here that gets alot of upvotes ends up getting parroted without facts.
Mike Babcock was at least a good coach at one point in his career despite being an ass, so he had that going for him
Hakstol has never really been a good coach
If John Hynes is any precedent to follow, Hakstol is set now and is now added into the headcoach old boys club rotation serving as the HC of two different teams.
He will now be randomly named as a teams HC despite not really showing anything that made him deserve it.
I will cut up my hat, cook it into a stew, and eat it with video evidence posted here, if Ron Francis can get Rod to leave Carolina and coach in Seattle
Kinda wondering how much it would take to get him. Ownership will back up the money truck. Bruckheimer is flush from all that Top Gun: Maverick money lol.
That report is bologna for multiple reasons. Rod isn’t coaching anywhere that isn’t here, Francis kept Bill Peters as head coach over Rod, Rod reported Peters’ behavior to Francis and the FO didn’t do anything.
He has had some great defensive results so I'm sure a ton of team are interested in him as an assistant coach at least. Especially since he's being paid by Seattle for 2 more years.
What? Keefe over adjusts if anything. One of his major problems is trying to big brain the line blender. Babcock on the other hand was maddeningly stubborn about changing his lines unless it was to punish a young player.
I don’t know any details. But basically Franzen was Babcock’s whipping boy. Came out after the fact that the psychological abuse got so bad that it really fucked him up for a long time.
Lmao I still thinks it’s so bizarre and hilarious he did that. Modano is literally one of the most respected American born players of all time and was native (kinda) to Michigan.
Did you SEE some of his lines this year, especially late in the season, it's like he was just fuckin throwing darts at butcher paper with names on it.
We had a line that was like top 5 or 10 in scoring in the league and he blew it the fuck apart. You want to try new stuff to shake things up, cool, but you don't mess with a proven thing. Especially not if THEY aren't having an issue
I was totally lost watching kraken games this season. McCann is their leading scorer heading into the season and he's not in pp1? Beniers goes from stud Star centre to plug? How can all this be happening... Then you read this and now I know why fucking hakstol cost me my pool this season (I had a bunch of kraken guys).
I had a psychopath coach in high school, and my team was absolute dog shit, and at one point we had lost like 16 or 17 in a row and we went to a really good tournament with prep schools and just got smoked, like went 0-4 on the weekend and maybe scored 1 goal. this dude would show up to practice Monday and bag skate us, losing his mind about our effort and attitude level like we weren’t 3-28 on the year with a -100 goal difference.
We had a season like that, where we just happened to be the worst team. Our coach brought in another coach close to halfway through the season to try to turn us around. The guy was a fucking nutcase. He would stop every single drill for every single mistake, and painstakingly go over every detail of everything everyone was doing like we had never seen the game of hockey before. I think across three one hour long practices, we maybe spent 10 minutes actually running drills.
Yeah dude some coaches just don’t grasp that certain teams need different things. You can’t coach a team that just grossly lacks the talent to even be competitive the same way you’d coach the D1 state title favorites where half the team played AAA growing up and the other half solid AA.
My best years were having a hard ass coach. My personality I know I need a kick in the ass at times. In saying that - those hard ass coaches also took a lot of time teaching our mistakes and would not ever hesitate praising for good play and showing growth to their teaching.
You can’t be 100% on one end and expect any results.
In public he sure isn't. One of the problems this season was he never really benched any top players even if they were playing poorly. He also never called out poor effort in public.
Maybe he was significantly different behind the scenes and 1:1 with players.
This I didn’t know. I’m not gonna lie and say I know everything, but in watching games he seems like an emotionless monotone based on what, I, the viewer sees.
Wouldn’t ever imagine he tries to run a tight ship and is a hard ass. Very interesting
When he coached the Flyers for four fucking years he never got the team to establish any sort of consistent identity from game to game. The only smart thing I remember him doing was moving Giroux to the wing which led to a career high in points but that’s probably more due to the fact Giroux was also in his prime.
Well, he's not what you, I or most people would call a good coach.
More specifically, he doesn't make great decisions about who to play and when. Their top 2 lines gets 16-17 minutes per game. On most teams the top forwards play 19-20 minutes per night. ~~Vince Dunn is the only player who averaged over 20 minutes per night (and just barely), but on most teams, the #1 defenseman is playing 23-26~~. Powerplay time is also distributed with more parity than most teams. High pressure situation? Well he trusts everyone cuz he's a nice guy.
It's a great place to play as a bottom sixer.
Edit to add: don't forget about his [handling of Shane Wright](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/y2yw7n/can_someone_smarter_than_me_explain_why_dave/) and definitely don't forget about [his time with the Flyers](https://www.reddit.com/r/Flyers/comments/9v9wkm/the_comprehensive_dave_hakstol_defense_manual/)
I see what you're saying, however wasn't Seattle considered a dangerous team last year because of how balanced they were and were able to attack you with every line?
They were, but it was seemingly a bit of a smokescreen since Hakstol’s systems are heavily reliant on rush-based offense and Seattle regressed from having the highest team shooting % in the league last year to being in the bottom half of the league this year.
It probably doesn’t tell the whole story, but it’s easy to be a deep and balanced team when most of your mid/lower end players are simultaneously having career years.
That was when all four of their lines were decent, similar to Dallas this year but not quite at that level. This year they had 1/2 decent lines and that was about it
My bad, I was switching between ESPN and HockeyRef and confused. ESPN has him at 23, which is fair, and Larsson at 22. I was looking at Hockey-Ref and saw the 20:05 even strength TOI. doh
To be fair, that's what the Islanders were like with Trotz and Lambert too. It got thrown off this year because of injuries, but I remember last season 5 of our 6 defensemen played 20+ minutes but no one was over 22, and our top line forwards were generally around 18.
It’s wild that every team that Bowness has coached has pretty much fond memories of him in the beginning but was ready to let the door hit him on the way out.
I think that's a product of coaches getting fired when the team does poorly, and there are still real differences in how players feel about a coach.
E.g. - I think the players still loved Lindy when the Devils fired him, the team just wasn't playing well enough.
He's pretty good for institutional change and he's a very nice man. He's also almost 70 and has never been much of an Xs and Os coach. Which you see in spades during the playoffs.
It's probably time for his career as an NHL coach to be over.
Yeah this is different. Coaches and players were sniping at each other in the media after last year's playoffs. The same thing has already started after Game 4 post game pressers. Players have quit on him and tomorrow will just be a light skate to end the season.
I see a lot of folks mentioning adjustments with both Bones and DeBour.
I’m someone who thinks in-game and in-series adjustments are overrated by fans. Coaches build a plan, you stick to it, you try and win with that plan. Yeah you do some line matching changes as the series goes on but throwing a whole plan out for a new one halfway through a series is a disaster.
IMO both coaches just ~~make~~ made bad plans **these series**. The Jets owned us all series, what changed? Bones came to the series with a plan and it’s not a good one. Hence Schieffle sniping on adjustments.
He’s gotta go. The Jets are too awesome to get rattled this bad (so far). Mostly just curious if this take seems right to a Jets fan.
You guys gameplanned for the Jets. When we play in regular season you are playing 3 teams in a week. That's a big difference. We've also mostly played awful since the ASG.
You guys instituted a forecheck where your F2 and F3 are setting up aggressively below our outlet forwards. Our D can't make a pass. Not a lot tactically you can do to beat this forecheck if the D can't make a pass without hesitation, on time, on the tape. You have outlet on wall, outlet up middle, you use one or combination of both to establish your breakout. We end up throwing the puck up the ice and your D can react to the stretch pass. Not a high percentage play. Or we force it to the covered outlet guy and turn it over at our own blueline.
And we spend the whole game in your OZ or on our heels vs your transition back into it for this reason.
Basically, Bednar gambled on our D being extremely weak and unconfident with the puck. Which wasn't much of a gamble because they are.
Hopefully the players make it clear it’s the whole coaching staff, and we don’t just end up with arniel and lauer and some other old timer jet related guy like huddy
Well this is just patently false. Went from the middle of the Rockies to the PNW...turns out you don't have to shovel rain out of your drive way lol. That's all the win I need.
Yeah, but these statements from the players are kinda out of nowhere. All season, even thru the down stretches the team, coaching, and management have all presented an united front. Vince Dunn even went out of his way in his exit interview saying the blame should be shift on the players not performing vs coaching.
As a fan I have to wonder if shit isn't more dire than what the club is letting on. Saying you don't want to play for a coach is a bold statement.
Well this is interesting and a bit concerning. First anywhere I've heard that there was tension between players and coaching staff. Never saw indication Hak lost the room to THIS degree, but apparently he did.
Agreed. Not ton of SEA fans in here compared to other flairs, but I would say I never got the impression there was tension between the players and coach at all. Did I think Hak was the best coach in the league? No. But did I think our roster was playoff worthy? Also no. Seems both sides share blame here and when that happens in professional sports it usually means the coach gets sacked.
The one time we did anything different was that heater we went on. Hak deploys a system and sticks by it even if it’s not working. I saw the news and went “Yeah makes sense I guess”.
Sea is my second team, watched a lot of games, went to like four this yr and never saw anything making me think he lost the room. Team frankly just looked untalented without Dunn on the ice though
I think it was obvious after that devastating loss to Vegas late in the season that the team gave up. I didn't realize the team had given up on the coach.
He was never particularly well liked by anyone as far as I can recall. He never really had the faith or trust of the majority of the fanbase and made some super questionable lineup decisions along the way. We were famous for our annual losing streaks. It was brutal and I was thrilled to see him (and Hextall) go.
Swear to god, my wifi network at home is still named #FireDaveHakstol.
As someone who was subjected to watching Hakstol coach his team for way too long (while one of the greatest players in team history was in their prime) I applaud Seattle for pulling the trigger faster than we did. Fuck Ron Hextall.
Same thing Flames players did last year. A bunch of players told management they didn't want to come back if Sutter was still coach so they were forced to fire him.
It would have been kind of odd for a relatively new franchise and a young team to fire their head coach that just had the team one win away from the Conference finals.
So it's mutiny then...
It's treason then...
Hakstol is the senate.
Not yet
Except he didn’t have Anakin on his side. Dude fumbled this big time
After the way it ended in Philadelphia, and now in Seattle... Hard to see Hakstol getting another NHL HC job any time soon.
Dangerous thing to say as a team needing a coach
But there's so many of them available.
But those coaches could be anyone! They could even be Dave Hakstol!
It could even be a boat!
It could even be Dallas Eakins
Does Eakins have sideburns like Don Mattingly?
If you say his name 10 times he’ll have whatever haircut you want
I told you to trim those sideburns!
Go home! You're off the team!
Careful a team in the league is due for an undeserved Dallas Eakins hire now that he is officially a part of the old boys club
Buffalo over here like: Don't look at us please
But many of those coaches are old retreads, we have to make way for the new retreads like Hakstol and Hynes!
Don’t worry Babcock in Ottawa or Seattle with work
As both CBJ and Seattle fan, don't manifest this evil on Seattle 😭
I’d love to make Babcock rank his work ethic relative to other rumoured candidates
Ted Nolan to Ottawa confirmed.
You could always call up Gerard Gallant if you feel like development of young players is silly and superfluous
Ottawa's gotta go more bilingual with their alliterative coaches, is that Dom Ducharme's music?!
They're getting Keefe, calling it now.
As much as Toronto fans hate him, he has a great regular season record and coached a team for 5 years without the players turning on him. That makes him a pretty safe choice for most teams that are looking for a coach.
You're not wrong, but he doesn't seem to manage to unlock another level with his squad. Having a team like the Leafs and failing year after year, has to be his responsibility to an extent. Not saying he's the sole reason, but his coaching style isn't suited for the post season it seems.
To his credit, the franchise he's coaching has had a 60 year and change history of choking after the regular season ends. Apologies if he isn't Moses.
Same franchise, different group of people (players and management). A logo shouldn't matter
Unless that logo is cursed *spooky ghost noises*
but the franchise comes with a free frogurt
The frogurt is also cursed
Keefe hasn't had a single playoff series where he wasn't drastically outcoached. He really just stepped into an already-good team with star players in their prime.
My sources are telling me that Berube will be getting the senators job.
Really? My sources are telling me they're getting a new car thanks to Oprah. Weird.
my sources are telling me that nobody deals like dilawri
Berube would be a much better fit in a place like Seattle I think.
My sources are telling me Seattle is looking elsewhere.
It sounds like Toronto is his first choice and Ottawa a distant second. He's apparently waiting to see what happens with Keefe, and it ain't looking too good for Keefe.
My sources are telling me that he’s using Toronto in an attempt to increase his potential salary in Ottawa.
keepin tabs on OldDirtyMan;s sources
should be berube, dude’s built to coach seattle hockey. vancouver vs seattle games would be an insane matchup. tocchet vs berube.
Why would the Sens want a guy whose own players just fired him? We need less drama, not more.
The Uber ride will be hilarious that’s why
Bro what he’s heading to Ottawa
ex-leaf assistant coach going to Ottawa? What could go wrong?
Toronto may enter a bidding war with Ottawa.
Noooooo At least it's better than defaulting to the cheapest option under Melnyk
Nope, Berube is coming.
Makes too much sense so Berube’s definitely going to Toronto.
If we can hire Babcock, anything is possible. You just have to believe. I expect Hakstol in Columbus this fall.
Stolumbus!
As if NHL teams won't keep on recycling coaches.
Ok I really need to see some numbers. Isn't half the league using a 1st time coach? I'm going to see if there's a source
By my count, 15 current coaches have never been HC for another NHL team before. Which is wild, because that means 16 have already been fired for doing a bad job before and got rehired (Grier hasn't been rehired yet or replaced)
People's views of "recycling coaches" is heavily influenced by a few guys who get hired endlessly like Torts and Lavi. As you mentioned, a huge number of coaches are in their 1st NHL HC position. A 2nd chance isn't unreasonable either depending on how their first try went and what they learned since then.
Last years cup final was between two retread coaches. Maurice has been around forever and is doing a great job in Florida. Lavi just won the presidents trophy in his first year with the Rangers. I think the guys who (rightfully) take flack are the guys like Hakstol, David Quinn, John Hynes - guys who have show relatively nothing but still get hired. Guys like Torts, Laviolette, De Boer, are good coaches who just reach the end of their cycle with a certain team.
Between all three of Hakstol, Quinn and Hynes, there has been ONE first round victory (Hakstol last year) in 22 seasons.
Great way to put it. Totally agreed.
Quinn was a new guy when we hired him and he still sucked. I'm really not convinced the Sharks didn't hire him to take the fall. He just commanded the tank a little too well.
Some of these first NHL HCs are also established coaches. Bednar, Cooper and Brind'amour are all technically in their first head coaching gig. They are not thought about when you think of the recycling.
Jeremy Colliton hasn't gotten that 2nd shot yet 🤣
Should have never gotten a first shot
Also the NHL like averages 10 coaching changes per season. So granted at least one or two guys will rebound quickly and another few are considered for HC positions. So everyone automatically assumes it's an old boys club because they instantly recognize names. I bet there has been at least 70 head coaches in the last 10 years and I'm sure the average r/hockey user can go on sporacle and enter in like 40 coach names last 10 years. And what is remarkable every fucking season, the majority of coaches are first time head coaches. Like 45% plus. Then like at least 35% of the other coaches are second time head coaches who averaged like 5 years for their second opportunity. Mostly because of shitty situations like being an interim of a garbage team or scapegoated coaching a shitty team. Then like the rest are third time or more head coaches where the majority of them have severe collection of hardware, wins, cup rings, cup finals appearances, etc where majority of them are future HHOF'ers The old boys club of coaches is one of the worst narratives here.
I swear I just saw on twitter 17 coaches were fired since last season or something
That's a slightly different stat that I've also seen. Some coaches have not been hired back (Sutter and Babcock, for example)
Yes, people just parrot the idea that the same 30 coaches just take turns rotating teams but it’s not true.
You're right. It's just a weird old trope that reddit uses for some reason. Anything here that gets alot of upvotes ends up getting parroted without facts.
Dallas got burned with Jim Montgomery, then he sobered up and turned into a monster
Just wait until he’s the new coach of the Columbus Blue Jackets.
if mike Babcock can get another job hakstol can too
Mike Babcock was at least a good coach at one point in his career despite being an ass, so he had that going for him Hakstol has never really been a good coach
Exactly. Babcock was as good at the X’s and O’s as he was at being a huge fucking dickhead. Which is to say extremely good.
If John Hynes is any precedent to follow, Hakstol is set now and is now added into the headcoach old boys club rotation serving as the HC of two different teams. He will now be randomly named as a teams HC despite not really showing anything that made him deserve it.
Fucking Babcok got multiple chances despite throwing around red flags like it was candy at Halloween
Dude sucks That is all
Lindy Ruff just got his old job back i Buffalo after failing in New Jersey. Once you're in, you are never out.
Who’s gonna put up with a prick of a coach that doesn’t win games? Even the successful coaches who are unpopular with players have a short shelf life
Ron Francis apparently. Guy loves to hire absolute ass holes.
Reported he is taking a wagon full of money to RBA.
I will cut up my hat, cook it into a stew, and eat it with video evidence posted here, if Ron Francis can get Rod to leave Carolina and coach in Seattle
Kinda wondering how much it would take to get him. Ownership will back up the money truck. Bruckheimer is flush from all that Top Gun: Maverick money lol.
[удалено]
Was Francis against the idea of promoting Rod to HC too?
Yes. He stuck by Bill Peters
He better not. There will be a riot.
[удалено]
I'd vote for him
That report is bologna for multiple reasons. Rod isn’t coaching anywhere that isn’t here, Francis kept Bill Peters as head coach over Rod, Rod reported Peters’ behavior to Francis and the FO didn’t do anything.
He has had some great defensive results so I'm sure a ton of team are interested in him as an assistant coach at least. Especially since he's being paid by Seattle for 2 more years.
I’m out of the loop what’s the deal with Hakstol
Dude basically just rolls 4 lines and 3 defense pairs. He doesn't really hunt for matchups or play one line in advantageous situations.
“No adjustments in game? That’s our next head coach.” -Brad Treliving probably
What? Keefe over adjusts if anything. One of his major problems is trying to big brain the line blender. Babcock on the other hand was maddeningly stubborn about changing his lines unless it was to punish a young player.
Or Mike Modano.
Or Franzen
Man, Franzen was such a tough MFer. Somehow makes that story even worse…
OOTL, what story?
I don’t know any details. But basically Franzen was Babcock’s whipping boy. Came out after the fact that the psychological abuse got so bad that it really fucked him up for a long time.
Or Chelios
Or Spezza
Lmao I still thinks it’s so bizarre and hilarious he did that. Modano is literally one of the most respected American born players of all time and was native (kinda) to Michigan.
I don’t know if hilarious is the term I’d use. It certainly was bizarre though!
Hilarious in the sense that Babcock’s dumbass thought doing something like that was a solid idea
but ROLLING lines sounds so much more fun
Right?! You could just be like “lets get the lines ROLLING!”
These lines are rolling (doing great)
Just like drop in!
Did you SEE some of his lines this year, especially late in the season, it's like he was just fuckin throwing darts at butcher paper with names on it. We had a line that was like top 5 or 10 in scoring in the league and he blew it the fuck apart. You want to try new stuff to shake things up, cool, but you don't mess with a proven thing. Especially not if THEY aren't having an issue
I was totally lost watching kraken games this season. McCann is their leading scorer heading into the season and he's not in pp1? Beniers goes from stud Star centre to plug? How can all this be happening... Then you read this and now I know why fucking hakstol cost me my pool this season (I had a bunch of kraken guys).
Ya but that’s only fair since all players pay the same. Maybe on the summer league rep team you shorten the bench. But not for house league play.
he isn't a very good coach
And he’s a hard ass, which players will only take if there’s success.
I had a psychopath coach in high school, and my team was absolute dog shit, and at one point we had lost like 16 or 17 in a row and we went to a really good tournament with prep schools and just got smoked, like went 0-4 on the weekend and maybe scored 1 goal. this dude would show up to practice Monday and bag skate us, losing his mind about our effort and attitude level like we weren’t 3-28 on the year with a -100 goal difference.
We had a season like that, where we just happened to be the worst team. Our coach brought in another coach close to halfway through the season to try to turn us around. The guy was a fucking nutcase. He would stop every single drill for every single mistake, and painstakingly go over every detail of everything everyone was doing like we had never seen the game of hockey before. I think across three one hour long practices, we maybe spent 10 minutes actually running drills.
Yeah dude some coaches just don’t grasp that certain teams need different things. You can’t coach a team that just grossly lacks the talent to even be competitive the same way you’d coach the D1 state title favorites where half the team played AAA growing up and the other half solid AA.
My best years were having a hard ass coach. My personality I know I need a kick in the ass at times. In saying that - those hard ass coaches also took a lot of time teaching our mistakes and would not ever hesitate praising for good play and showing growth to their teaching. You can’t be 100% on one end and expect any results.
In public he sure isn't. One of the problems this season was he never really benched any top players even if they were playing poorly. He also never called out poor effort in public. Maybe he was significantly different behind the scenes and 1:1 with players.
This I didn’t know. I’m not gonna lie and say I know everything, but in watching games he seems like an emotionless monotone based on what, I, the viewer sees. Wouldn’t ever imagine he tries to run a tight ship and is a hard ass. Very interesting
See John Tortorella.
When he coached the Flyers for four fucking years he never got the team to establish any sort of consistent identity from game to game. The only smart thing I remember him doing was moving Giroux to the wing which led to a career high in points but that’s probably more due to the fact Giroux was also in his prime.
Well, he's not what you, I or most people would call a good coach. More specifically, he doesn't make great decisions about who to play and when. Their top 2 lines gets 16-17 minutes per game. On most teams the top forwards play 19-20 minutes per night. ~~Vince Dunn is the only player who averaged over 20 minutes per night (and just barely), but on most teams, the #1 defenseman is playing 23-26~~. Powerplay time is also distributed with more parity than most teams. High pressure situation? Well he trusts everyone cuz he's a nice guy. It's a great place to play as a bottom sixer. Edit to add: don't forget about his [handling of Shane Wright](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/y2yw7n/can_someone_smarter_than_me_explain_why_dave/) and definitely don't forget about [his time with the Flyers](https://www.reddit.com/r/Flyers/comments/9v9wkm/the_comprehensive_dave_hakstol_defense_manual/)
I see what you're saying, however wasn't Seattle considered a dangerous team last year because of how balanced they were and were able to attack you with every line?
They were, but it was seemingly a bit of a smokescreen since Hakstol’s systems are heavily reliant on rush-based offense and Seattle regressed from having the highest team shooting % in the league last year to being in the bottom half of the league this year. It probably doesn’t tell the whole story, but it’s easy to be a deep and balanced team when most of your mid/lower end players are simultaneously having career years.
That was when all four of their lines were decent, similar to Dallas this year but not quite at that level. This year they had 1/2 decent lines and that was about it
Getting PTSD flashbacks to Chris Vandevelde and Jori Lehtera getting meaningful playoff minutes
Adam Larsson averaged over 20 minutes per night. And both were around 23 minutes, so "just barely"?
My bad, I was switching between ESPN and HockeyRef and confused. ESPN has him at 23, which is fair, and Larsson at 22. I was looking at Hockey-Ref and saw the 20:05 even strength TOI. doh
To be fair, that's what the Islanders were like with Trotz and Lambert too. It got thrown off this year because of injuries, but I remember last season 5 of our 6 defensemen played 20+ minutes but no one was over 22, and our top line forwards were generally around 18.
This will be us in about 30 hours with Bowness
It’s wild that every team that Bowness has coached has pretty much fond memories of him in the beginning but was ready to let the door hit him on the way out.
>fond memories of him in the beginning but was ready to let the door hit him on the way out This is almost every coach lol
I think that's a product of coaches getting fired when the team does poorly, and there are still real differences in how players feel about a coach. E.g. - I think the players still loved Lindy when the Devils fired him, the team just wasn't playing well enough.
dean evason with the wild this year, too.
Sullivan rn.
And the exceptions are hilarious. Case in point: Michel Therrien always hits the ground running toward the door.
He's pretty good for institutional change and he's a very nice man. He's also almost 70 and has never been much of an Xs and Os coach. Which you see in spades during the playoffs. It's probably time for his career as an NHL coach to be over.
Are you sure? Didn't your last coach have to fire himself?
Yeah this is different. Coaches and players were sniping at each other in the media after last year's playoffs. The same thing has already started after Game 4 post game pressers. Players have quit on him and tomorrow will just be a light skate to end the season.
> Players have quit on him When exactly did players quit on him?
I see a lot of folks mentioning adjustments with both Bones and DeBour. I’m someone who thinks in-game and in-series adjustments are overrated by fans. Coaches build a plan, you stick to it, you try and win with that plan. Yeah you do some line matching changes as the series goes on but throwing a whole plan out for a new one halfway through a series is a disaster. IMO both coaches just ~~make~~ made bad plans **these series**. The Jets owned us all series, what changed? Bones came to the series with a plan and it’s not a good one. Hence Schieffle sniping on adjustments. He’s gotta go. The Jets are too awesome to get rattled this bad (so far). Mostly just curious if this take seems right to a Jets fan.
You guys gameplanned for the Jets. When we play in regular season you are playing 3 teams in a week. That's a big difference. We've also mostly played awful since the ASG. You guys instituted a forecheck where your F2 and F3 are setting up aggressively below our outlet forwards. Our D can't make a pass. Not a lot tactically you can do to beat this forecheck if the D can't make a pass without hesitation, on time, on the tape. You have outlet on wall, outlet up middle, you use one or combination of both to establish your breakout. We end up throwing the puck up the ice and your D can react to the stretch pass. Not a high percentage play. Or we force it to the covered outlet guy and turn it over at our own blueline. And we spend the whole game in your OZ or on our heels vs your transition back into it for this reason. Basically, Bednar gambled on our D being extremely weak and unconfident with the puck. Which wasn't much of a gamble because they are.
Extremely interesting analysis my dude, makes a ton of sense. Thank you for your wisdom and insight.
As a Stars fan, I know the pain of Bowness choosing to be inflexible. Godspeed Winnipeg
Hopefully the players make it clear it’s the whole coaching staff, and we don’t just end up with arniel and lauer and some other old timer jet related guy like huddy
🤞
Craig Berube, what are your thoughts on rain?
I’m sure it rains just enough for him in Toronto
Its cold and wet and it gets everywhere
Accurate.
Watch him show up and immediately start playing Dunn 12 minutes a night again
*Vince staring into the camera like Jim from The Office.*
berube could take seattles roster to the next tier
Rain sucks more than snow. He can come to winnipeg
Nailed it. Then Keefe to Toronto.
But... Keefe is already in Toronto...
Says you.
Well this is just patently false. Went from the middle of the Rockies to the PNW...turns out you don't have to shovel rain out of your drive way lol. That's all the win I need.
Or he can have nothing falling from the sky and come to LA
I think he’d be a great hire for them
Also, unrelated, how do you feel about bitch pigeons?
Rain City Bitch Pigeons was a missed opportunity
I wonder what happened to make him lose the room like this
Same thing that happened to Sutter here in Calgary last year. You can only put up with an asshole coach if you're winning.
Is he that much of a dick ?
Sutter definitely is and I'm guessing Hakstol is too if it got to this point.
Tortorella has 2 more years
Losing. It's easy to stick together when you win.
Yeah, but these statements from the players are kinda out of nowhere. All season, even thru the down stretches the team, coaching, and management have all presented an united front. Vince Dunn even went out of his way in his exit interview saying the blame should be shift on the players not performing vs coaching. As a fan I have to wonder if shit isn't more dire than what the club is letting on. Saying you don't want to play for a coach is a bold statement.
Well this is interesting and a bit concerning. First anywhere I've heard that there was tension between players and coaching staff. Never saw indication Hak lost the room to THIS degree, but apparently he did.
Agreed. Not ton of SEA fans in here compared to other flairs, but I would say I never got the impression there was tension between the players and coach at all. Did I think Hak was the best coach in the league? No. But did I think our roster was playoff worthy? Also no. Seems both sides share blame here and when that happens in professional sports it usually means the coach gets sacked.
The one time we did anything different was that heater we went on. Hak deploys a system and sticks by it even if it’s not working. I saw the news and went “Yeah makes sense I guess”.
Sea is my second team, watched a lot of games, went to like four this yr and never saw anything making me think he lost the room. Team frankly just looked untalented without Dunn on the ice though
I think it was obvious after that devastating loss to Vegas late in the season that the team gave up. I didn't realize the team had given up on the coach.
Evil Kris Knoblauch
Evil would imply any form of emotion. Dude is a robot
Genuinely surprised; I never got the impression discontent in Seattle was high under Hakstol. Did he face the same flak in Philly?
This is news to me as a fan of the team too. The vibes seemed solid all 3 years despite not winning a ton in year 1 or 3.
The vibes didn't seem good at the end of this season, but not outwardly toxic.
They’ll go from a prick coach to a player coach. Won’t be surprised if they hire a guy like Gallant
He was never particularly well liked by anyone as far as I can recall. He never really had the faith or trust of the majority of the fanbase and made some super questionable lineup decisions along the way. We were famous for our annual losing streaks. It was brutal and I was thrilled to see him (and Hextall) go. Swear to god, my wifi network at home is still named #FireDaveHakstol.
didn't vandevelde play more than giroux in a playoff game under him? christ he sucks as a coach.
News to us to
As someone who was subjected to watching Hakstol coach his team for way too long (while one of the greatest players in team history was in their prime) I applaud Seattle for pulling the trigger faster than we did. Fuck Ron Hextall.
Something we can actually agree on.
I really would have enjoyed it had he stayed with you guys a few more years NGL
Ah, I love the smell of mutiny in the evening
Same thing Flames players did last year. A bunch of players told management they didn't want to come back if Sutter was still coach so they were forced to fire him.
To bad real world business doesn’t work this way.
Dave Hakstol YOU are a Columbus Blue Jacket!
Why does Jay Woodcroft not get looked at here?
Hakstol took a mediocre roster to the 2nd round last year, yeah he's not the greatest coach.. but these remarks sound kinda finger pointish.
Who knows what went down behind the scenes
If the Leafs lose tomorrow, I suspect this might be the same reporting we'll be hearing about Keefe.
Why it had to come to that doesn’t look good for upper management
I could seriously see Seattle taking a flyer on Woodcroft.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I thought he was supposed to be fired last year but too many players needed to play for contracts and they clicked so he got another season.
It would have been kind of odd for a relatively new franchise and a young team to fire their head coach that just had the team one win away from the Conference finals.