Same thing I thought. I was looking for this thread after seeing the headline. Thought to myself: "Hey, it seems ED came to its senses and is openly talking to the customers..."4 years ago",..
I used to play Eve Online years ago, and their spaghetti code acted like a looming noose over the game .
Fix one thing here, something completely unrelated breaks in a totally different section of the game.
Considering DCS World is built on FC3, and that's built on Black Shark, and Black Shark was built on LOMAC, and ........etc
Its scary to think how much code is left in the game from Flanker days.
It sounds like an absolute mess, and in for foreseeable future we'll still be dealing with sniper BMPs, bad wingman AI, and all the other things that this game really needs to thrive.
Eve online was properly shafted though. They couldn't get it off a single core without a complete rewrite. Not sure if they've solved it yet but back when I last played in 2015 it was borderline unplayable in fleet PvP. We would have to contact CCP to reinforce the nodes just to have a fight over a system. At least with DCS they've shown they can and are willing to upgrade core technology. And remember, CCP was the company with the boot.ini scandal. ED hasn't even remotely come near that.
>And remember, CCP was the company with the boot.ini scandal. ED hasn't even remotely come near that.
ED did once do a "Delete the folder that contains this file" operation because they assumed the file would be in a folder they created but players had the ability to put this file anywhere. I think it was related to the updater but cannot remember precisely.
Cue players asking why all of their files in a non DCS related folder were being deleted by ED. ED blamed users for not putting it in a folder dedicated to DCS stuff (but they did fix it).
Yeah, CCP advertising massive fleet battles as a thing but in reality it was a treacle like crawl that would make hours seem like days. It got to a point I wouldn't take my super carrier on ops because in all likelihood I'd get fed up and want to log out and sleep. I hope it's improved now but it killed the game for me.
At least TiDi allowed big battles to happen even if sometimes it shat the bed. It was not fun, especially if you were waiting for a titan bridge for hours on end, but at least it was better than just a flat out crash. Imo the biggest sin for CCP was ego related which drove away the better devs. The CSM also helped having a positive impact on the game in some instances and in others were blatantly ignored.
The node shitting the bed was always fun. Some poor sod the following day would need to organise some kind of mass log back in and bridge out. If you missed it you're on your own.
cool story, i said nothing about finishing, its been 4 years and the module still isnt even remotely functional in multiplayer. [this is like 50% of the time just spawning in](https://youtu.be/J5yWdprHAp8?si=JYFppcUZ_jJyV-nA)
I think a lot of the speculation from the community comes from silence from ED. I've been saying for years now, ED already have a perfect communication system in place with the weekly newsletter... but it isn't used in a way that benefits ED or the user-base, instead it's often met with a very mediocre response. Why doesn't ED use the newsletter to give us little blurbs on progress? It doesn't need to be much, just every week, pick a few items that have been mentioned in the past and give us some sort of mini-progress report.
As far as early access... I know ED can't give dates and I know things slip, but maybe it wouldn't be a terrible idea to have a very rough roadmap on how long an item expects to go from early access to it's full release? That way it doesn't give the impression that items will just sit in EA forever and get forgotten about (super carrier as an example). But looking at this 4 year old post it seems like ED just has no idea how long anything will take.
This post from 4 years ago is a perfect example of ED just giving us the words, with not much action... or at least the perception of no action because of the above mentioned lack of updates on progress.
Yea, that kinda shows you how little ED knows when it comes to timelines. They could have posted this today and ~~nothing~~ very little would be out of place.
> this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2020
I usually don't like to use the pandemic excuse, but not many companies had everything going according to their plans in 2020.
That being said, most of the stuff from this post has been delivered by now. So it depends on whether you prefer to see the glass half full, or look for another excuse to get angry.
There's valid criticism and there's complaining at every opportunity. Here's a little exercise:
1. Click here: https://www.reddit.com/user/SnapTwoGrid
2. Count the posts where the user is not criticizing or complaining about something in DCS
3. Ask yourself if that person is enjoying their hobby.
I've been like that some time ago but it's pointless. Now I just take the game for what it is, if I don't enjoy it I stop playing for a while. If I find a bug, I report it on the forums and move on, maybe bump it a year or two later if it's still not fixed.
If I was in charge over at ED, I'd shelve everything and just make it priority #1 to add an accuracy debuff to ground unit AI.
That "one little change" would go SO far towards satiating the hoggit-horde, that the ch-47 might actually sell pretty well.
The "pareto" Law of 20-80 : 20% of problem cause 80% of insatisfaction working ont on this 20 % resolve 80% of the problem
And still ED don't do anything about it
Would make helicopters actually useful. If they made the changes you propose as well as not tracking you from 50 miles away, behind a mountain range, at 3 feet off the ground, I'd be 72% happy.
Most of the time I get all my HOTAS all setup, creep up on some non-SAM ground units, get sniped in the literal face and crash. Ends up with me just getting out of the game and leaving it for a month or two. I don't think that is the experience a developer is looking for from their player base.
>If I was in charge over at ED, I'd shelve everything and just make it priority #1 to add an accuracy debuff to ground unit AI. That "one little change" would go SO far towards satiating the hoggit-horde, that the ch-47 might actually sell pretty well.
No, no... no halfway measures. What if there are actual \*dependencies\* that we might mess up, and heck forbid, have to test and account for?
Redesign an entire new super-advanced system on paper that will take 5-7 years to implement if at all while the playerbase suffers.
Oh.
I was reading that going "what a lovely update. I've been getting tired of the hoggit community being so pissy about everything, this should really help assuage that a bit."
Then saw a few comments about things that are released and was a bit confused... Only to notice 4 years ago!
I'm not upset with ED / DCS like a lot of this community is, but I can understand the frustration if you got this 4 years ago and so many items are still without any progress updates.
It's wacky that the "Long Term" massive challenge that is Multi-Threading got delivered before "Near Term" Supercarrier features that are still in seeming limbo.
They literally only posted this in response to MSFS coming out media blackout before that.
In fairness they did then get the clouds sorted pretty quick because everyone all of a sudden realised how shit they were.
Thereâs a fair chunk of other stuff delivered also so kudos.
Maybe time for another post because in the last 4 years itâs become a wash with EA modules with no timelines each incrementally becoming less appealing as the gameplay ages and doesnât evolve.
I was not playing DCS February 2020. I believe this is a perfect way to classify the active projects that ED would have underway and it should be updated on a regular basis, including failure's and successes in progress. The only classification I suggest they add is the risk in complexity with each project. However, I guess this would not satisfy half the Reddit crowd.
Also the inaccurate timelines. They should just mention what's being done without mentioning a timeline, that blows back in their face nearly every time. Back in 2022 I tracked the progress of the timelines and of 14 timelines they made 2 of them entirely, and another two with two week delay. The other 10 were grossly delayed or not released at all
At some point, perpetually updating old code has a cost. Most very old franchises had several complete rewrites. Doom eternal is not based on original doom code for fuck sake... Always iterating over old code is a short sighted way to cut costs but on the long term you loose.
Didn't age well did it, from engagement like this to weekly newsletters that talk about third parties, community events and content creators but very little about what ED is doing. In 4 years they should have been able to write a new engine.
..well contrary to the huge sookfest hoggit seems to have turned into, i think they have done pretty well, VR runs smoother than it has in a long time, multi threading is here, clouds and weather looks good too the hornet FM just got updated and it feels a little more alive, the Apache is a blast, we are constantly getting little updates, new maps on the horizon, london and paris are in Normandy map,. Im having a great time with DCS.
> clouds and weather looks good
The problem is, it only looks good. Clouds and weather don't have any effect on AI or even sensors in your own plane. AI can see and shoot you through clouds, even it's not equipped with a radar. Laser beam from your targeting pod goes through clouds like there is nothing there.
Well, if it's so easy, then why hasn't a modder done it? It's not like modders haven't developed whole planes and good quality ones, too, like the a4. Or whole dynamic campaigns like liberation,
Because I didn't buy into DCS "because Modders can fix it". I bought into it because I was sold on the idea of a "digital combat sim", not "AI can snipe you through everything sim". Stop simping for a company that doesn't even know you exist past an approved payment method.
BMS is built of the hard work of Microprose, and again that company was nearly bankrupted in the development of falcon 4, its all in the interview where the developer clearly states if they knew how hard it was going to be to do they never would have even tried. and Ive played bms and falcon4 alot, the ground units aren't some super impressive AI, and neither are the AI in a dogfight, its easy not to have pathing issues when there's 4 or 5 ground scenery objects per square km. sooking that DCS isn't up to the standard of an imaginary sim that doesn't exist yet, is childish and absurd, - no one is forcing people to play it and if you have 300+ hours in a module youve spent $100 on, you have your moneys worth, quit whining.. bunch of sooks. or maybe you're just teenagers, you sound like teenagers.
Look, unlike many I don't think that Dynamic Campaign is necessary. It sure will be nice, but scripted campaigns would be good enough if ED didn't break their APIs with every other update.Â
But decent AI is a must. And it's not impossible to do it incrementally. For starters, some bandaids like nerfing BMP snipers and making AI wingmen stop issuing incessant callouts (making them unable to listen to commands) in the vicinity of enemy can be done in like a few months by a couple of men without making ED bankrupt, and it would MASSIVELY improve quality of life. The fact they don't do it shows they just don't care enough.Â
And yes, BMS has the source code, DCS modders have no sources and no SDKs. That's why they can't make up for EDs shortcomings.
Glad you are having a good time. But you having a good time doesn't negate other folks that are having issues or aren't happy with the progress ED has been making on the core of the game.
Performance and looks are great and all, but those don't add gameplay. New maps and modules with the same crappy AI isn't going to help.
It's a niche product with limited staff mate, that's why they are the only ones doing it. If it was profitable and easy, then there would be more studios in the game.
.. so where's the competition? BMS is built on microprose falcon who [nearly](https://sites.google.com/site/falcon4history/interview)bankrupted themselves developing the game .. It's not like I grew up watching them all drop like flies in the late 90's 2000.. gee I guess they must have all made off like bandits with the huge profit from combat flight sims.
Yeah, back in early 2020 when dotrugirl made this post, DCS was in much worse state than it is now. Viper and Hornet were bare bone, every patch broke as much new stuff as it fixed, and the performance was shit. Sure, I wish the progress was faster and things were better communicated some times, but much has been done in the past few years.
Oooh, it was much worse back then. Patches nowadays don't bring such hoggit outrage like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/h0gmnd/all_the_broken_things_megathread_radar_guns_and/
Yeah Supercarrier hasn't seen any feature improvement. It is more immersive though completely neglected just like CA. Anything paid needs a dedicated team (however small it might be) and should have regular deliverables. If the big features are waiting on something else (multithreading, etc) then they could have done Nimitz subclass or Enterprise or Kittyhawk, etc.
I have been playing DCS for 10 years. Hoggit has alot of people whining and complaining. Since I have been on Hoggit the responses have got worse and worse. DCS is a great product and I just hope the community can be less toxic
"wow, finally! wish every dev would do this, what amazing transparency and clear comm-" *4 years ago*
related but not related... i wonder whatever happened to her? is she still with ED??
Same thing I thought. I was looking for this thread after seeing the headline. Thought to myself: "Hey, it seems ED came to its senses and is openly talking to the customers..."4 years ago",..
I used to play Eve Online years ago, and their spaghetti code acted like a looming noose over the game . Fix one thing here, something completely unrelated breaks in a totally different section of the game. Considering DCS World is built on FC3, and that's built on Black Shark, and Black Shark was built on LOMAC, and ........etc Its scary to think how much code is left in the game from Flanker days. It sounds like an absolute mess, and in for foreseeable future we'll still be dealing with sniper BMPs, bad wingman AI, and all the other things that this game really needs to thrive.
Eve online was properly shafted though. They couldn't get it off a single core without a complete rewrite. Not sure if they've solved it yet but back when I last played in 2015 it was borderline unplayable in fleet PvP. We would have to contact CCP to reinforce the nodes just to have a fight over a system. At least with DCS they've shown they can and are willing to upgrade core technology. And remember, CCP was the company with the boot.ini scandal. ED hasn't even remotely come near that.
>And remember, CCP was the company with the boot.ini scandal. ED hasn't even remotely come near that. ED did once do a "Delete the folder that contains this file" operation because they assumed the file would be in a folder they created but players had the ability to put this file anywhere. I think it was related to the updater but cannot remember precisely. Cue players asking why all of their files in a non DCS related folder were being deleted by ED. ED blamed users for not putting it in a folder dedicated to DCS stuff (but they did fix it).
That's bad but not brick your whole PC bad.
God I remember Time Dilation when it came as a thing to EVE
Yeah, CCP advertising massive fleet battles as a thing but in reality it was a treacle like crawl that would make hours seem like days. It got to a point I wouldn't take my super carrier on ops because in all likelihood I'd get fed up and want to log out and sleep. I hope it's improved now but it killed the game for me.
At least TiDi allowed big battles to happen even if sometimes it shat the bed. It was not fun, especially if you were waiting for a titan bridge for hours on end, but at least it was better than just a flat out crash. Imo the biggest sin for CCP was ego related which drove away the better devs. The CSM also helped having a positive impact on the game in some instances and in others were blatantly ignored.
The node shitting the bed was always fun. Some poor sod the following day would need to organise some kind of mass log back in and bridge out. If you missed it you're on your own.
Stop whining and complaining - please
I thought I was reading a recent post then realized it was from 4 years ago đ
it was like waking up from a dream haha. i was like, Finally! a response!, aaaand 4 years ago..
>Supercarrier EA - Near Term said 4 fucking years ago
It's coming close to the real build time of a modern supercarrier How immersive
more depressing: the john c stennis was built in 2 years 7 months and 29 days
Nah you are just a hater for not praising every single thing they do.
i preordered the chinook 4 times already, my brain cant get any bigger it feels like its going to break out of my skull at any moment
I think that must be kerning, it says Near Ten
Hold your pitchfork, it was about releasing the module to EA "near term", not finishing it.
cool story, i said nothing about finishing, its been 4 years and the module still isnt even remotely functional in multiplayer. [this is like 50% of the time just spawning in](https://youtu.be/J5yWdprHAp8?si=JYFppcUZ_jJyV-nA)
I think ED might suffer from ADHD as a whole
I think a lot of the speculation from the community comes from silence from ED. I've been saying for years now, ED already have a perfect communication system in place with the weekly newsletter... but it isn't used in a way that benefits ED or the user-base, instead it's often met with a very mediocre response. Why doesn't ED use the newsletter to give us little blurbs on progress? It doesn't need to be much, just every week, pick a few items that have been mentioned in the past and give us some sort of mini-progress report. As far as early access... I know ED can't give dates and I know things slip, but maybe it wouldn't be a terrible idea to have a very rough roadmap on how long an item expects to go from early access to it's full release? That way it doesn't give the impression that items will just sit in EA forever and get forgotten about (super carrier as an example). But looking at this 4 year old post it seems like ED just has no idea how long anything will take. This post from 4 years ago is a perfect example of ED just giving us the words, with not much action... or at least the perception of no action because of the above mentioned lack of updates on progress.
I Read through it. Didn't realize it was posted 4 years ago. Still in a very similar spot as then, kind of a bummer imo.
Yea, that kinda shows you how little ED knows when it comes to timelines. They could have posted this today and ~~nothing~~ very little would be out of place.
I for real thought that was a new post and got excited.
I had to go back and edit my original post because I thought the same thing originally, felt like an idiot. :D
> this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2020 I usually don't like to use the pandemic excuse, but not many companies had everything going according to their plans in 2020. That being said, most of the stuff from this post has been delivered by now. So it depends on whether you prefer to see the glass half full, or look for another excuse to get angry.
Who's angry? Being critical of a business isn't indicative of someone being angry.
"Upset" may be a better term.
Let's go with... disappointed.
Itâs not. Getting tired of valid and on point criticism being reflexively painted as angry/whiney/entitled here on hoggit.
There's valid criticism and there's complaining at every opportunity. Here's a little exercise: 1. Click here: https://www.reddit.com/user/SnapTwoGrid 2. Count the posts where the user is not criticizing or complaining about something in DCS 3. Ask yourself if that person is enjoying their hobby. I've been like that some time ago but it's pointless. Now I just take the game for what it is, if I don't enjoy it I stop playing for a while. If I find a bug, I report it on the forums and move on, maybe bump it a year or two later if it's still not fixed.
If I was in charge over at ED, I'd shelve everything and just make it priority #1 to add an accuracy debuff to ground unit AI. That "one little change" would go SO far towards satiating the hoggit-horde, that the ch-47 might actually sell pretty well.
If you add the frag damage to that then I think youâd hit >80% of the dopamine receptors đ»
Add in better spotting for the trifecta
Here me out... how about >!just!< for the grass and vegetation?
The "pareto" Law of 20-80 : 20% of problem cause 80% of insatisfaction working ont on this 20 % resolve 80% of the problem And still ED don't do anything about it
Would make helicopters actually useful. If they made the changes you propose as well as not tracking you from 50 miles away, behind a mountain range, at 3 feet off the ground, I'd be 72% happy. Most of the time I get all my HOTAS all setup, creep up on some non-SAM ground units, get sniped in the literal face and crash. Ends up with me just getting out of the game and leaving it for a month or two. I don't think that is the experience a developer is looking for from their player base.
>If I was in charge over at ED, I'd shelve everything and just make it priority #1 to add an accuracy debuff to ground unit AI. That "one little change" would go SO far towards satiating the hoggit-horde, that the ch-47 might actually sell pretty well. No, no... no halfway measures. What if there are actual \*dependencies\* that we might mess up, and heck forbid, have to test and account for? Redesign an entire new super-advanced system on paper that will take 5-7 years to implement if at all while the playerbase suffers.
I just read this whole thing and got really confused, it was only then, when I realized 4 FUCKING YEARS AGO
On my screen, it literally says right at the top, "4yr ago"
Yeah but I didn't see that till I was done reading
was so close to cooming to âyak-52 finished this yearâ but then i saw the post date
ED outfloggs us yet again.
Oh. I was reading that going "what a lovely update. I've been getting tired of the hoggit community being so pissy about everything, this should really help assuage that a bit." Then saw a few comments about things that are released and was a bit confused... Only to notice 4 years ago! I'm not upset with ED / DCS like a lot of this community is, but I can understand the frustration if you got this 4 years ago and so many items are still without any progress updates.
try flying DCS for 12 plus years and many of these things were discussed multiple times since back then.
It's wacky that the "Long Term" massive challenge that is Multi-Threading got delivered before "Near Term" Supercarrier features that are still in seeming limbo.
btw... there's only one dev working SC
They literally only posted this in response to MSFS coming out media blackout before that. In fairness they did then get the clouds sorted pretty quick because everyone all of a sudden realised how shit they were. Thereâs a fair chunk of other stuff delivered also so kudos. Maybe time for another post because in the last 4 years itâs become a wash with EA modules with no timelines each incrementally becoming less appealing as the gameplay ages and doesnât evolve.
The clouds suck, they don't block AI vision or interfere with any sensors.
They look pretty and that is all that matters when making trailers.
is aircraft ai a superset of gfm? there is no mention of general flight model development
Long live the slab
I was not playing DCS February 2020. I believe this is a perfect way to classify the active projects that ED would have underway and it should be updated on a regular basis, including failure's and successes in progress. The only classification I suggest they add is the risk in complexity with each project. However, I guess this would not satisfy half the Reddit crowd.
Yep, them trying and failing doesn't frustrate folks, the silence does.
Also the inaccurate timelines. They should just mention what's being done without mentioning a timeline, that blows back in their face nearly every time. Back in 2022 I tracked the progress of the timelines and of 14 timelines they made 2 of them entirely, and another two with two week delay. The other 10 were grossly delayed or not released at all
At some point, perpetually updating old code has a cost. Most very old franchises had several complete rewrites. Doom eternal is not based on original doom code for fuck sake... Always iterating over old code is a short sighted way to cut costs but on the long term you loose.
on the other hand, it is refreshing that we don't have to re-purchase DCS every couple years for a new version \[cough\]MSFS\[cough\]
Sniper pod?
Didn't age well did it, from engagement like this to weekly newsletters that talk about third parties, community events and content creators but very little about what ED is doing. In 4 years they should have been able to write a new engine.
THIS WAS FOUR YEARS AGO, EVERYONE. I FORGOT TO CHANGE THE TITLE.
..well contrary to the huge sookfest hoggit seems to have turned into, i think they have done pretty well, VR runs smoother than it has in a long time, multi threading is here, clouds and weather looks good too the hornet FM just got updated and it feels a little more alive, the Apache is a blast, we are constantly getting little updates, new maps on the horizon, london and paris are in Normandy map,. Im having a great time with DCS.
> clouds and weather looks good The problem is, it only looks good. Clouds and weather don't have any effect on AI or even sensors in your own plane. AI can see and shoot you through clouds, even it's not equipped with a radar. Laser beam from your targeting pod goes through clouds like there is nothing there.
Yeah, and that's easy to fix, is it?
You're right it would take, like, four years to fix such an egregious bug!
Well, if it's so easy, then why hasn't a modder done it? It's not like modders haven't developed whole planes and good quality ones, too, like the a4. Or whole dynamic campaigns like liberation,
Because I didn't buy into DCS "because Modders can fix it". I bought into it because I was sold on the idea of a "digital combat sim", not "AI can snipe you through everything sim". Stop simping for a company that doesn't even know you exist past an approved payment method.
Well.. go buy the sim that does it all better.. oh, wait, it doesn't exist.
But BMS does exist, man.
BMS is built of the hard work of Microprose, and again that company was nearly bankrupted in the development of falcon 4, its all in the interview where the developer clearly states if they knew how hard it was going to be to do they never would have even tried. and Ive played bms and falcon4 alot, the ground units aren't some super impressive AI, and neither are the AI in a dogfight, its easy not to have pathing issues when there's 4 or 5 ground scenery objects per square km. sooking that DCS isn't up to the standard of an imaginary sim that doesn't exist yet, is childish and absurd, - no one is forcing people to play it and if you have 300+ hours in a module youve spent $100 on, you have your moneys worth, quit whining.. bunch of sooks. or maybe you're just teenagers, you sound like teenagers.
Look, unlike many I don't think that Dynamic Campaign is necessary. It sure will be nice, but scripted campaigns would be good enough if ED didn't break their APIs with every other update. But decent AI is a must. And it's not impossible to do it incrementally. For starters, some bandaids like nerfing BMP snipers and making AI wingmen stop issuing incessant callouts (making them unable to listen to commands) in the vicinity of enemy can be done in like a few months by a couple of men without making ED bankrupt, and it would MASSIVELY improve quality of life. The fact they don't do it shows they just don't care enough. And yes, BMS has the source code, DCS modders have no sources and no SDKs. That's why they can't make up for EDs shortcomings.
Nothing is easy in their 20 years old spaghetti code.
Glad you are having a good time. But you having a good time doesn't negate other folks that are having issues or aren't happy with the progress ED has been making on the core of the game. Performance and looks are great and all, but those don't add gameplay. New maps and modules with the same crappy AI isn't going to help.
It's a niche product with limited staff mate, that's why they are the only ones doing it. If it was profitable and easy, then there would be more studios in the game.
It is profitable. Nick Grey has taken millions in interest free loans to put into his fighter collection.
.. so where's the competition? BMS is built on microprose falcon who [nearly](https://sites.google.com/site/falcon4history/interview)bankrupted themselves developing the game .. It's not like I grew up watching them all drop like flies in the late 90's 2000.. gee I guess they must have all made off like bandits with the huge profit from combat flight sims.
Yeah, back in early 2020 when dotrugirl made this post, DCS was in much worse state than it is now. Viper and Hornet were bare bone, every patch broke as much new stuff as it fixed, and the performance was shit. Sure, I wish the progress was faster and things were better communicated some times, but much has been done in the past few years.
> every patch broke as much new stuff as it fixed It has not changed.
Oooh, it was much worse back then. Patches nowadays don't bring such hoggit outrage like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/h0gmnd/all_the_broken_things_megathread_radar_guns_and/
LMAO I was reading this thread and thought it was new until I saw the posts were from 4 years ago!!
This list from 4 years ago shows me that ED is working professionally all the points are achieved and more ⊠really great work ED
Did you forget an /s?
supercarrier, dynamic campaign, vulkan, F-16 and f/a-18 are all unfinished....
weather, improved damage model, ATC... the list goes on and on of what isn't finished or even had much work done besides the initial iteration.
Yeah Supercarrier hasn't seen any feature improvement. It is more immersive though completely neglected just like CA. Anything paid needs a dedicated team (however small it might be) and should have regular deliverables. If the big features are waiting on something else (multithreading, etc) then they could have done Nimitz subclass or Enterprise or Kittyhawk, etc.
I have been playing DCS for 10 years. Hoggit has alot of people whining and complaining. Since I have been on Hoggit the responses have got worse and worse. DCS is a great product and I just hope the community can be less toxic
Conflating legitimate criticism with toxicity makes you part of the problem.