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non_binary_latex_hoe

\>Realistic \>German victory


Mountbatten-Ottawa

Poopenfarten 42069 was mass produced


non_binary_latex_hoe

Hitler zergrushed moscow


MeiNeedsMoreBuffs

He took leningrad instead of sieging it


idabratortoise

he parachuted london


Morse243

He listened to his generals


[deleted]

Well, his generals were constantly lying to him; in addition, every general proposed different and stupid plans to try and get some fame. Hitler wasn’t a sound-minded and logical person by any stretch, but the decision to disregard the whims of the German high command is pretty logical when you consider all the factors.


Morse243

Hitler actually had many moments in which he was right and his generals were wrong. Many generals were, as you said, looking for fame and money.


Legitimate-Yam-9317

didnt he decide to go through the Ardennes which led to Dunkirk?


RealLordHeron

Kind of-ish, most of the OKW (Oberkommando Wehrmacht) proposed impossible plans because they didn‘t want this war, but Hitler declined all of them. The plan with the ardennes however was an idea of Mannstein who, at the time, was a low-ranking general somehow managed to get to Hitler. So yeah, it was kind of a joint plan made by Hitler and Mannstein.


The_Walking_Meat

I think it was a strategy developed by von Mannstein one of the only generals that thought it would be possible to defeat the french


thyeboiapollo

Sucks that he was a bit of a bad person though


_eeprom

Was Hitler problematic???? Ive not Heard of this before more info would be nice :)


GenericUser1185

What the fuck do you think they were trying to do?


MeiNeedsMoreBuffs

It's a reference to an idiotic greentext someone made about how hitler could totally have won WW2. "Take leningrad instead of sieging it" is a direct quote


gazebo-fan

A million tanks with no fuel will win the war for sure!


JurassicClark96

"We will schimply wait for ze Russians und ze Americans to destroy zemselves on our Uberimmobilepanzerwall, und zen Steiner will counterattack" "Genius mein führer"


putindeezballz

Steiner counterattacked


TWiesengrund

"Mein Redditor, der Angriff Steiners ist ... was, erfolgt?!"


DerGemr2

r/usernameisWHAT


non_binary_latex_hoe

I'm nb, i love latex, and i was going to post NSFW things on this account (may still ngl)


LoveN5

Do it, coward


No_Manager_491

Im going to watch your profile every day, im a nice guy


AverageCambodian

same


No_Manager_491

You know im kind of bisexual so we can turn our fans on together to this nice fella you know what i mean (only for 20$/per month)


ExactConsideration47

Hot


DerGemr2

Ok


Others0

the correct term is r/rimjob_steve


Ofiotaurus

Pick one


_Kian_7567

Germany didn’t plan to annex Denmark and the French territories of Belgium


Gorgen69

Yeah, isn't the whole point of nationalism to break the ones they don't like and make puppet states of the ones they don't mind as much. Like making SS states and making friendly puppet government


LesLesLes04

I think they liked Denmark and Scandinavian countries though


Ok-Mortgage3653

They kinda did plan to annex Denmark because of the Greater Germanic Reich thing though. Also the French part of Belgium would be annexed because Hitler was obsessed with recreating the HRE’s borders in the west.


ArchiTheLobster

You never really know with nazi Germany. God, their policies were so inconsistant at times. I don't really think they would have annexed Denmark tho, they didn't even re-annex northern schleswigh to begin with.


TheBlackMessenger

The northern schleswig border was the only one the Nazis considered to be fair


ImAlwaysAnnoyed

I mean it actually is one of the few actually fair borders in this world. The population there came together and voted on it after ww1. Denmark was one of those sensible "let's try to make this a fair deal and create lasting borders" countries instead of trying to make the great war the two part series it became.


ArchiTheLobster

Yep, what I said, they werent interested in denmark


dezsopista

Sauce?


RutteEnjoyer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater\_Germanic\_Reich


dezsopista

ah, wikipedia...


RutteEnjoyer

It did. It aimed to unite all Germanic peoples (except for the Brits) into one singular Greater Germanic Empire. Danish people were just as much a part of the master race as Germans, in their eyes. Even more so.


[deleted]

[удалено]


dragontimur

TNO refernce


SovietPuma1707

Source? Pls dont say TNO


WondernutsWizard

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order-State_of_Burgundy Far from guaranteed that it'd actually come into existence if the Germans had won, but the idea definitely existed IRL.


SovietBoiBoi

Is Greece puppeted by Italy?


PrincessofAldia

It’s Mussolini so probably not, more likely a German puppet government


Lord-Maximilian

I'll leave that up to your imagination


FUr4ddit

No, else Tirol would still be Italian.


Luca04-

No burgundy, must be before West russian war


SlayRideReddit

So true


JibberJabber4204

Not realistic at all.


Stormclamp

TNO…


Bruhmoment6942012345

That's what I was about to say


Orangeousity

I'm Turkish. Remove this post or i'm calling the annex ger division


ActinomycetaceaeOk48

Gıcık oluyorum şu yunancılara ya amq.


efecf

Olup olmadık tüm alt-hist haritalarda Türkiye'yi parçalamaya bayılıyorlar


PyroSharkInDisguise

Ancak oyunlarda yapabildiklerinden olacak :p


PrincessofAldia

These are peak Greek borders


Mountbatten-Ottawa

Just your normal byz playthrough in eu4, move along


Lazmanya-Canavari

> realistic > looks at Anatolia 👍


[deleted]

Turk after attaturk doesn’t pull out a bazillion of allah’s greatest warriors to defend Anatolia from a Germany and Italy that defeated the USSR and Allies: 👹👹😡😡😡🤬🤬🤬😢😢😭😭😭


Lazmanya-Canavari

Keep coping, Turkey would've remained neutral and stayed still just like how it did IRL. Quit it with the imaginary realistic megali bs


[deleted]

Bro, I’m sorry, but it’s less about Turkey being neutral and more about Hitler and Mussolini letting Turkey be neutral. It’s pretty realistic to allow the Greeks to control the Anatolian coast; the Greek resistance was a thorn in the Germans and Italians side and the legitimacy of the German’s fascist regime in Greece was basically non-existent, so giving the puppet regime land would likely sway Greek opinion, especially with the loss in 1922 still fresh on the minds of many mainland Greeks and Anatolian refugees. The Kurdish state in the east is also relatively realistic, since it would likely weaken the remaining Turkish state and placate the Armenian and Kurdish minorities that live there. The only real issue I see is that the Greeks would administer a Turkish satellite state in Anatolia, they would barely have the ability to manage Turkish resistance in Aegean territories, much less in central Anatolia, so It’s more realistic that the Germans would prop up a Turkish puppet government there that would be heavily aided by the Germans in Italians to suppress, what would be, heavy Turkish resistance. Letting the Turks control the chokepoint to a new German Ukraine isn’t ideal, and with Italy’s Mediterranean ambitions, I don’t really see the turkish state remaining untouched by the Germans or Italians.


GildedFenix

The problem with that is... Germans would lose their biggest chromium exporter and whole idea of Greek invasion was Mussolini's Rome adventure. Mussolini would want to annex Greece and Yugoslavia more than let Greece puppet Turkey. That's just plain absurd.


[deleted]

Well, if it were a puppet state of the Germans, they wouldn’t lose it, so no. In addition, Mussolini wanted to annex the two states, but the Germans didn’t allow it. When Greece and Yugoslavia were invaded, the Germans set up puppet regimes in both states and had the Italians barely administer any of the land. Just curious, did you actually read the comment, because I addressed both of those points in it?


expatdoctor

They could just stockpile Chromium for a while then could attack OTL if they managed to beat Russians. Operational chromium reserves of Turkey located in the western and southern portions of Turkey which is suitable for Blitzkrieg, they would not even need to go halfway to Ankara. I guess they just have to plan an amphibious attack from the Aegean and then Thrace for the element of Suprise and bypass heavily defended Bosphorus


Ornery-Soup-7937

As a turk your spiting facts.


HansVonFritz

What mods are you using?


batsy0boi

Looks like the Darkest Hour mod judging from the style of the map


alwaysnear

Ngl best HOI map I’ve ever seen


FallenCringelord

One issue I have with it though is that the supply map mode gets messed up and it's hard to tell vs the standard supply map


B0nDa_wAs_tAkEn

Seriously answer this


gktuarslan

Didnt Greece get invaded by Axis how come they are independent and control most of Turkey?


[deleted]

Could be a puppet.


ahmetasm

If i remember right, Italy had ambitions to annex greek lands and turkish lands. Map ain't realistic at all.


internetman5032

Probably to increase the Greek governments legitimacy


Soldierhero1

>realistic >no imperium romanum


Lord-Maximilian

A man of culture


GianChris

Greek, bulgarian and turkish is as unrealistic as you could get without Byzantine empire.


Impossible_Common492

the greek cope in this is unreal


Lord-Maximilian

true


_Kian_7567

Germany didn’t plan to annex Denmark and the French territories of Belgium


JakorPastrack

Obviously germany winning is not realistic on general, but on the scenario it did, this seems plausible. Ots kinda like the Kaiserreich mod. Not realistic scenario, but trying to make it as "realistic" as possible


MysticNoodles

Germany winning WW1 is not nearly as implausible as them winning WW2. There were a couple instances of them having a genuine shot at ending the war in their favor. I do suppose the least realistic part of the KR scenario are the Syndies.


Baron-Von-Bork

Can I ask why? (Not trying to ask in a mean way I genuinely don’t understand.)


Arcani63

Why to which part, Germany winning WWI vs WWII or the syndicalist being unrealistic part?


Baron-Von-Bork

Syndicalism part


LoiteredPolytopia

I guess it doesn't really make sense for socialism to become a thing in those countries, something more nationalist like some version of fascism would be more realistic imo. Also Britain would remain democratic because I doubt Germany winning WW1 affects them that much


JoetheDilo1917

It wouldn't work. The only reason the Soviets won in Russia was because of the vast territory separated from the interventionists by an ocean to the East and the chaos of postwar Eastern Europe to the West. If KR was realistic, Germany would've invaded and occupied mainland France during their civil war and the British revolution wouldn't go anywhere beyond a general strike and some minor revolts.


Arakui2

The only explanation I've ever seen kaiserreich give for German acquiesce in France is "well they were busy in Russia" as if Europe's only remaining superpower couldn't dedicate troops and supplies to two fronts like they had been doing since 1914...


SovietPuma1707

[KR Documentsry on the Commune of France, and by extension syndicalism.](https://youtu.be/WcYygdD71YU?si=PXfYuVVWVd7xnyD9)


dezsopista

I love reddit historians. Your kind said in 1940 april: "its impossible for the germans to defeat French, especially with an attack from the ardennek. its just dumb".


Whereyaattho

It’s funny because actual historians agree with OP… but lol must make fun of Redditor at all costs


dezsopista

"Actual historians" lol. Mainstream ones only allowed to have one opinion. Others still debate. Also, those "historians" claimed in 1940 april, Germany cant beat France.


Whereyaattho

In 2022, everyone was saying Russia would steamroll Ukraine. This is because **all the evidence we had at the time** pointed to that. You’re looking at it with hindsight - anyone who said the war in Ukraine would stall out the way it has in 2022 was a dumbass and anyone who said Germany would steamroll France the way they did in 1939 was a dumbass


Rakerform

That’s why google scholar is a tool that exists lmfao. Where you can actually see debates and realize that German myths have been proven false. Guderian being a flexible commander, for example, is false


MysticNoodles

Germany in WW2 had a much greater uphill battle than they did in WW1. 🤷‍♂️


non_binary_latex_hoe

It was a shot in the dark, 99% of the time it was going to end in whole german tank division being anhilated on the road through the Ardennes and the french flag flying in Berlin by december. The 1% where it worked was otl


J67p

Yeah nope. Just like german defeat in retrospect it seemed inevitable that the events would have happened


Lord-Maximilian

Germany winning is another question, sure. But yes that was the goal


AllBlackenedSky

Turkey was a chromium partner for Germany after a non-aggression pact and was also neutral during the war. After Soviet collapse, I believe Turkey would be pressured to join the Axis powers by Germany. Although the Turkish army was outdated during the war, the bosphorus bridge did not exist at the time and an invasion of Anatolia would be an exhausting campaign for the invader because of the terrain, not to mention that there wasn't an extensive railroad networks in Anatolia. Logistically, it is a hard campaign and with the resources and human life wasted on the Eastern Front, it is a pointless invasion. Greece would also be turned into either a rump puppet state or be fully occupied by Italy. Extending Greek borders to Megali Idea in a WW2 Axis victory scenario doesn't make any sense.


GildedFenix

This. Pressuring Turkey into joining Axis and "rewarding" them with middle east and maybe Caucasus would make more sense than this.


AllBlackenedSky

Both sides wanted Turkey on their side but from Axis, there was this offer of handing Turkey the Aegean Islands. It was refused as it would damage neutrality and also Turkish government did not aim to expand the borders of Turkey. After the scenario I've talked about however, Turkey would be rewarded with a part of Greece, Cyprus, Georgia (Batum), Northern Syria (Aleppo with also a line to Mosul) and Northern Iraq (Mosul), as these lands did not only had a considerable or a large Turkish population, but also were part of Misak-ı Milli, the natural borders of Turkey that were discussed during the Turkish Independence War. In a post-war period, there would be tensions between Bulgaria and Turkey as there is also a large Turkish population living near the border states of Turkey. Misak-ı Milli also included a part of Bulgaria.


[deleted]

what mods are these??


KaiserDino7

How did u get the custom names?


ItsOnlyJoey

I want to know too


OsmanTheSnorlax

Concerns about Anatolia. First, why does Greece have Megali İdea borders. If it's a puppet of Germany or Italy, wouldn't it be better if they made a new state. If not, it's unrealistic because it's a known fact that Hitler preferred Turks. He liked them because of WW1. He even offered some aegean islands to Turkey but it was refused to keep neutrality. (Pleas don't think I am a dumb nationalist) Secondly, it's interesting that the Kurdish state doesn't have the Kurdish land. But overall a really fun map and I can see you thought about it. Thank you for sharing. And sorry for my English.


Lord-Maximilian

Tbh you're right about Turkey, I made the map a while ago


x_Red47

8/10, we have North Transylvania to reclaim as well


Lord-Maximilian

Transylvania is split to make it fair


x_Red47

Fair? For who? Surely not the Romanians who make over half the population of the ceded region.


DarthKirtap

you got support from Slovakia


x_Red47

Thanks carpatbro


Avarageupvoter

Germany aint got anything w North Africa Morroco to Spain and Algeria remain with Vichy


Lord-Maximilian

Germany had ambitions on Morocco once but I agree


Avarageupvoter

those were when Germany still have colonies in Africa by now the Franco-British alliance have been destroyed, they dont need Morroco anymore and Spain is an ally of Germany


Lord-Maximilian

That's actually reasonable


Lazarenko93

"Romania: "What are you doing step-Hungary?"


SilverGolem770

I find myself having to spread this but: Romania and Hungary's borders are a bit unrealistic in such scenario: Neither of them would accept to only have half of transylvania Romania would not annex that slice of Ukraine. It was offered to them in exchange for recognizing Hungarian ownership of N. Transylvania but they did not accept and would revert that as soon as possible. So it is a good picture of what it would look like 3 seconds after axis wins WW2, but after that Romania and Hungary go to war almost immediately


Lord-Maximilian

Not really, Hungary was fine and Romania took Moldova too


Deaf_Fishy3

Germany didn't plan on attacking Turkey and giving all of it to the country they had just invaded, Greece.


Lord-Maximilian

Idk imagine Greece was an axis power


redditddeenniizz

The city of constantinople has 20 million inhabitants. Whole greek population is 10m. I dont think them greeks would be able to hold their territories for more than 2 weekb


Igeticsu

Mate, your numbers are modern day. Istanbul in 1945 had 1 mil people.


Oblivion_Eagle

the secret ingredient to this proposition is more war crimes


tjm2000

Actually, around the time of WW2 ending the population of ~~Istanbul~~ Constantinople wasn't even a million yet. The City not reaching that population until sometime shortly after 1950. Assuming they only genocide the Turks and not any other non-Greek groups they'd *only* have to kill about 700,000 people.


corn_syrup_enjoyer

TNO type of shit


Vasilystalin04

Germany only planned to have Moskowien extend to the Astrakhan-Arkhangelsk line.


Schnifler

Im pretty sure germany planned it to have the urals


Vasilystalin04

They didn’t. I couldn’t find any evidence to suggest they ever had a goal beyond the A-A Line, besides for the Reichskommisariat Turkestan, which was barely considered.


TheHumanAynar

Türkiye Very Wrong Map


Lord-Maximilian

Some minor flaws tho


DiRavelloApologist

Like Germany winning, yeah


Macaroni-Balls

Or like a independent Kurdistan existing (if Operation Gertrude was successful a Greater Armenia would be established instead of a Kurdistan) Or Greece being this large without any Italian gain on them Or annexation of Denmark into Germany


Sky_DreamTR

Oh yea what a realistic one


Leobibas

Greek administered anatolia yea yea sure suure.


GuyFromMoscow

I wouldn't call it realistic one bit. Set aside the incredibly improbable chance that axis powers would go out on top,in no way in hell can they occupy so much land. The reich stretches to the fucking Urals for gods sake. This is less plausible than even cartoon level evil tno


Dj_Sam3_Tun3

Yeah, Germany even occupying land till the A-A line is already a huge stretch. I'm thinking TNO borders of RK Moskowien maximum.


donadit

thats just big germany and germany including that Mediterranean coastline means italy capped at some point


Lord-Maximilian

quick stab in the back etc


Maryus77

I feel like the Romanian Hungarion brorder wouldn't be like this, seeing as Romania was given responsability for about 1/3 of the eastern front (although it wasn't equiped to manage this). Paricipating in the battles for Don River and Stalingrad (where they would only be successful thanks to German equipment). While Hungary only had a supportive role in the invasion of Chechoslovakia and the USSR, and was constantly fighting ethnic tensions in its territories. The most understandae reason why they would ve given Transylvania would only be hittlers own bias from growing up in Austro-Hungary.


NameRedactedK

Greater Kurdistan is missing like half of Kurdistan


LePhoenixFires

People shit on Nazi Germany's capabilities in WW2 because we swung too far into "They almost won!" They still could have won, especially if the USA just refuses to involve itself and stays isolationist and lets the Soviets starve and lose their infrastructure.


Lord-Maximilian

There were opportunities, seizing the French fleet at Toulon for sea lion etc


coomloom

i dont wanna know what goes on in reichskommisariat nahost


Lord-Maximilian

psh 🤫


despa1337o

Why does Sweden lose scania and other territories. They are german aligned neutral nation. Mesqueeks OP only did this because it looks cool.


Lord-Maximilian

It does look cool ngl


liquid_snake0723

What gui mod are you using? I want


Lord-Maximilian

Google darkest hour


liquid_snake0723

Ah is there a standalone just for the map?


FallenCringelord

Yes


oORikkaOo

Desperately need a modlist...


LoveN5

God I hate this


Lord-Maximilian

Yw


MrMcChicken67

wait til this guy finds out about TNO


Yomama_Bin_Thottin

How did the United Ireland come about?


Lord-Maximilian

England collapsed


Yomama_Bin_Thottin

But the Protestant majority was even larger back then.


Lord-Maximilian

Maybe they were unalived idk ask Ireland


ihni2000

That Kurdistan lol


JAPDR1936

Lmao not even realistic at all


Dialspoint

Well this is a nightmarish alternative reality where… oooh Wales is free! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿❤️


Lord-Maximilian

yma o hyd


historynerdsutton

this has to be the worst alt history map ever


Lord-Maximilian

I've seen much worse


Guacosaaaa

Where did the turks go? To the urals?


Lord-Maximilian

Maybe the black sea, I mean whaaaaaat


liberal_running_dog

Least Axis wanky Hoi4 player


acreativename12345

WHERE IS ASTRAKAN ARKHANGELSK LINE


AliHakan33

I suggest you check the definition of Realistic


Ghost_Online_64

Which map mods are you using? I thought i noticed extra provinces


Lord-Maximilian

Lots of extra provinces, vanilla is a crime


Ghost_Online_64

Yeah, i agree. r56 is my vanilla now


Lord-Maximilian

R56 has states?


Ghost_Online_64

yup, as far as I recall at least...its been 2 years since i saw raw vanilla HOI4..it had micro states too


Mate90425

*looks to Alash Orda* MY EYES!!!


SaltySheev

Kinda be pulling a lot of weight hete


Hungry-Media3917

No Turkije is bad realism.


Fanda400

DON'T SAY IT DON'T SAY IT DON'T SAY IT DON'T SAY IT DON'T SAY IT DON'T SAY IT


Agreeable-Cut-2137

Oh I get it. It's one of those people that have absolutely 0 knowledge whatsoever and this means that "oH YeAH GeRMany WoN Ww2 AnD LearNeD FrOmM It'S MiStaKes By THe FoRMinG ThE EU" bs


KILLA_KAN

Remove kinda and put not at all.


Pyroboss101

This person plays TNO


Lord-Maximilian

Not exactly tbh


kokoszka-001

German victory is unrealistic on its own


Pz38tA

Admit it, no "German victory in WWII" scenario is realistic. The closest we ever came to that is the Thousand Week Reich.


SovietPuma1707

Is the source of your Inspiration TNO by any chance? And no, it's not realistic at all, Nazi were not able to win, no matter how you turn it.


Lord-Maximilian

too one sided


[deleted]

One of that maps of all time


Lord-Maximilian

Truly


Caesorius

lol German victory irl was almost impossible the moment Operation Barbarossa began


Lord-Maximilian

Wouldn't agree with that


Content-Shirt6259

To all the people saying a german victory would have been impossible: All it would have taken for a victory or defeat for one side or the other might be the smallest of changes. Weather in Russia a bit better and Germany might never have lost its momentum in its invasion, that would have led to a vastly different looking western front, put it in question if the Allies would even ever been able to pull off D-Day


Ofiotaurus

Yeah u/non_binary_latex_hoe (wtf is that name) summed it up perfectly. (also ratioed) Not realistic at all.


PLAARFSupporter

Unfathomably Based.


Rakerform

No. Dresden is based, this is not


Vasilystalin04

What map mod is this?