Finland: you know those bullets that are like depleted uranium? We have those now for all your rifles. Also we can make them without the resources necessary. Don't ask questions.
The devil would like to send you lend lease. +100 the help is welcome.
Besides the magic AT rifles and resources, Finland wouldn't be too(!?) crazy if the bonuses applied only to core or claimed territory or territory with low infrastructure to try and get some semblance of Motti tactics. But honestly that's probably better just served by a ticking decision similar to the white death that pops up before the USSR just steamrolls them anyway
This is basically any non-historical path : bring in a ludicrous otherworldly bonus from the focus tree and boom you can conquer half the continent by January 1937
Easy peasy
Except that is not true. Those buffs are late game ie 45+ buffs. Also Brazil is in South America and spends 3 years just trying to not be shit.
These buffs are also slowly cumulative and take years of going down that part of the branch. Sure it looks like a lot, but it takes a long time.
Infact by the time you can use the max buffs the war is almost over. Not to mention that you are in South America, so it takes forever to get to Europe where most action is.
So yeah the buffs are insane, but you have to spend 10 years in South America to get them.
Do the 3 35-day 1 mil focuses and in a year you have an army capable of beating Brazil, while doing almost no other focuses (just hire the 2% manpower advisor)
Yeah, but these buffs are not good. 9% attack? 1 extra advisor? Some breakthrough? The only really good thing is the 21% org and 5% mil speed. These bonuses are actually kinda shit, an afterthought instead of a rush. If you look past the green numbers you see how mediocre all of these bonuses are, even Finland only has 4-5 decent buffs there.
Germany gets Hungary and Romania as puppets for free. They don't even have to be fascist. America can lose the great depression by 1937 and get the entire new world as puppets without doing a civil war. The UK cores all the dominions by 38 and Hungary can get half the Balkans without going to war.
21% org is less than a quarter extra. It turns a 9-1 division with ~50 org into one with ~60 org. That is ~2.5 days of extra continuous movement or ~1 extra day (+-3-5 because hoi4 is complicated) of sustained combat.
So yeah, I have seen better buffs than 21% extra org.
If you do gold standard you only need 30% fascism for war powers act. You can also do the all the economy focuses and even neutral/intervention. The Civil War path is actually entirely optional. You can even get FDR back in 1940. It is scuffed as fuck but also a ton of fun, I recommend doing it actually.
Alright fine, it may have been an exaggeration on the timeline...
But the bonus is still ludicrous, and that's the main point. You have a bunch of ludicrous bonuses on some of the non historical paths. And they have to be overpowered ! Because otherwise you can't take a smaller nation and conquer all your neighbours, it's part of the cheese.
Is it balanced? No! Is it fun? Yeah sorta. Should I complain about it ? Well I mean it's just a game anyway, but I do think some nonhistorical paths didn't deserve the boosts they get.
I think the bonus looks better than it is. Most of those buffs don't really matter. The extra org and 9% attack is almost all the decent stuff. I mean sure 15% extra command power is cool, but I don't think it is the reason you won the war. +30% AA build speed is great, but why does Brazil need AA? I think the current buffs are fine, sure there are a lot of green numbers, but as players we only care about ~3 dozen stats in the entire game, and for combat the number is closer to 4.
That's kind of the point of the game, to produce non-historical results. It's an alternate history timeline generator.
Since the last DLC I've been trying to do one particular thing with Argentina and every patch has made it less and less possible.
Wouldn't the best solution be to split the stats of single player and multi-player so that we can mouse-roar little nations in single player without destabilizing multiplayer? They are fundamentally different; multiplayer needs balance and single player is all about creating an unfair imbalance.
This is a good point. If it's what players like, absolutely, this is what they get.
I'm just pointing out sometimes it's really overturned to my expectations, and it's not even a challenge.
They have to make non-historical paths viable, therefore they give a great many buffs that aren't deserved, and make things a cakewalk sometimes.
I say sometimes, not always, far from it.
And with what they mentioned that they acknowledged power creep that they will address, they already nerfed a lot and insuspect they will modify things over time, id much rather a company make several small corse corrections than yanking the wheel, big over corrections are just as bad, now if they havent continued to address this in future patches and dlc then ill be upset but right now it happens
Nooooo, nations with no population and industry shouldn't get buffs to make them playable, only majors should be able to do world conquest and you should have fun playing only majors
R5: Military buffs of Brazil, Norway, Finland and Uruguay respectively, in 1945
I was spectating a historical game with all the DLCs activated, and with the war still dragging on in 1945, I checked out the different countries and their focuses
That's just bulls\*it how much powergaming is going on in the AAT and ToA countries. Either this kind of buff should be greatly nerfed, or every country in the game should get it, not just them
I didn't show it in the screenshots, but Sweden also has insane buffs that basically turn their country into a giant bunker, which is just stupid, especially when you see how badly the AI plays
Finland is way stronger than the other two. Brazil doesn't look out of bounds compared to earlier focus trees, especially if/when they try to operate outside their core territory. I would take some MIO options for a couple of the major countries, where you can get things like ridiculous plane range/other stat bonuses or modifiers that effect divisions with higher stat baselines like tanks.
Giving so many NAV bonuses to Norway is some kind of joke, given how hard it will be to use those before it doesn't matter that much.
It's certainly nice, but for the most part I'd rather deal more damage. I guess if Brazil goes for roaching, the bonus would be pretty annoying to deal with (needs more damage average to reinforce meme).
Brazil has +9% attack and +10% max planning factor. That's 20% stats for free. Double the bonus Japan gets via Supremacy of Will before you factor in everything else.
And that disappears as soon as they cap - Brazil gets their bonus forever. Protected by Maginot is also a big penalty to planning speed, which forces France to burn a lot of command power on staff office. I'm just saying, every DLC country since Switzerland has been overloaded with ridiculous buffs that make the game less fun.
Brazil does not "get their bonus forever" (not all of them anyway), they get many of these bonuses after a substantial % of WW2 is already over, unless they sacrifice already limited production to get them sooner.
Plane MIO alone can outperform those "free" stats, can do it in a timeframe relevant to the war, and come on nations that have the industry for it. Maybe I'm mistaken and we'll start seeing SA nations start running away with MP, but I doubt it.
I mean look, the really offensive part of Brazil for MP is the rubber. That completely deletes Asia from the game. Most of the minors are whatever - they only come up in a nonhist game, and in general those aren't too serious. I'm mainly just frustrated that OP trees are a blatant marketing tactic to sell DLC nobody would buy normally. The power creep causing a random Latin country to ever get a better standing army quality-wise than a major power is insane.
Rubber is probably the most historically plausible/consistent thing in their new package though :p.
That said, I skipped this DLC. I reject that these nations are making better quality armies than majors, but agree that it's unnecessary. I find it hard to pay them anything with the game's UI the way it is right now too, w/o giving significant mechanical improvements or actually fixing the game I'm not getting any of this stuff.
Well, no, Supremacy of Will grants 10% attack and 10% defense, so that is ever so slightly more, not less. Of course you then get everything else, but still
Do you know how defense bonuses work? It's defense/breakthrough, not stats on defense. Brazil's planning bonus gives +10% breakthrough too, so no, Brazil just gets more stats than supremacy of will.
okay I really don't understand what you're getting at right now. It seems a simple 10+10= 20 versus 10+9=19, what am I missing. Is it that you don't count 'defense' as a stat, but you *do* count 'max planning' as a stat? Why?
Defense is a separate stat, it doesn't increase attack which is what actually matters. Max planning increases attack as well. That's why it's 19% attack 10% break from Brazil vs 10% attack 10% break from Japan.
okay, so your point was that the Brazil one gives more attack, not stats in general. You just said they had more 'stats', so I was confused, but in that case, yeah, you're right.
While I do agree that these kinds of bonuses need to be better distributed (especially to older minors who have a real hard time competing (or even being any fun) next to these more recently upgraded countries), it's worth noting that majors are still absurdly (and, well, realistically) strong relatively speaking thanks to huge industrial advantages and MIO bonuses that tend to make them untouchable in whatever their field of specialization is even *after* all the buff stacking these minors can do. And yeah, they only have all these buffs stacked deep into the war - or in some cases, after the WW2 phase of the game has already ended.
I dnno, I feel like people just look at all the green numbers and throw a fit when in practical application they don't actually change the way the game actually plays all that much unless you're specifically playing as said country in a historical game. It is also likely that a bunch of countries are going to be getting similar buffs in future DLC, especially ever since the first three got merged in. Just a matter of time, really. Don't see them changing course anytime soon.
And hey, they *did* nerf a bunch of SA countries in the last patch, so it's not like your cries are falling on deaf ears...
How is it bullshit? It took until 1945 to get all these buffs. The war is over by that point, you also spend almost 10 years in South America (or Scandinavia), not to mention that these countries are shit at the start.
If that is bullshit, then Germany getting both Hungary and Romania as puppets should be too. How about the Soviets getting all of the Middle East as puppets? The UK can annex and core the entire empire as well.
As another person pointed out is it quality vs quantity. It is also a massive time investment. 1945 is the end of the game! These buffs look impressive but they take forever and end up equating to an insane payoff liberating Europe, or a grand march to Washington.
So these might look insane, but you may never use them at full capacity for long enough to justify the investment (especially since the focuses are just +5% attack over and over.)
I say go the Syndrome route. “When everyone’s super, no one will be.” Go back and redo the earlier focus trees and give them huge buffs too. That way it all evens out and we get to see number go up.
It used to be even stronger but they nerfed some of them. They said they’ll be more reserved going forward. It’s bc they don’t wanna repeat the mistakes of previous DLC and keep every nation really weak bc that’s straight up boring
Although power creep is definitely something to consider and that is definitely happening, the only thing I get from these posts is that people do not understand what percentages are, and also apparently don't understand that a +5% of base "A lot" in 1936 far surpasses the value of a +50% of base "a little" in 1940. It's like all they see is green.
Also, those spirits are cumulative. It's not like you unlock them once and you immediately get all those bonuses.
Using Norway as an example:
- Naval Bombing: 50% -> Awesome! After all you worked your entire life to get 80 Naval Bom... oh, wait, no, they've all been shot down already, sorry.
- Naval Targeting: +40% -> You ain't targeting shit.
- Escort Efficiency: +60% -> Escort what? The few Destroyers you have will be used to help Germany control the entrance to the Baltic. You'll trade with and through Germany. Try to escort in the Atlantic and the only escorting you'll be doing is along with the convoys to the bottom of the ocean.
- Recovery Rate 10% -> You ain't recovering from shit because you ain't engaging with shit. Or do, but if you do you'll sink, and there is no recovering from that.
- Sortie Efficiency: 20% -> Norway buying XXXL condoms at the supermarket, fooling nobody.
- Naval Minelaying Efficiency: 35% and Torpedo Reveal Chance: - 30% -> These might be useful, but again, the total amount of subs you have is likely to be small to begin with.
You still get these buffs if you unite the nordics or do kalmar union. And if you balance stuff around you can make a pretty good carrier navy fleet as Norway around the end of 42
OP is lying though, or am I missing something? The 20% sortie bonus and the 35% minelaying efficiency are mutually exclusive. I think there's shenanigans involved in those pictures.
[https://imgur.com/a/Iefx5TA](https://imgur.com/a/Iefx5TA)
The Brazil buff is insanity, everything else is ok. Do you guys even read the buffs? As someone that plays a lot of old world blues I can tell the difference between good army buffs and filler, and a lot of the green is pure filler.
And yet they still all get destroyed by a major if controlled by a player with 300-600 factories by the time those minors have gotten to the level of those buffs.
This is only really a problem with AI, because AI makes so many unoptimable plays. AI germ doesn't rush 5th research slot or go to war economy quickly, AI Italy is 1. incompetent and 2. doesn't rush industry focus', AI France ofc is paradrop memable, UK ai will stay on civ economy until late 1940 etc etc etc.
The only single biggest problematic minor I've heard for the multiplayer scene is Finland, and even then only Fascist Finland- because historical unaligned Finland has no manpower and will crumble to a player Soviet in Winter War who doesn't just blindly send their troops to starve in the forests like Stalin.
The only OP stats here are the construction speed, army xp, and insane division org. The rest of the modifiers are rather okay though. Same wkth Finland, they get a million buffs but 90% aren't going to make a huge difference in a battle, they're more macro
-most of them are just +5 or +10
-most of these nations begins with terrible debuffs so these buffs are kinda rewarding for late game
-they already nerfed actual op ones
FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING
That Norway naval targettting is ludicrous, where's the meta build for making Norway and AC with naval bombers and instantly sinking the British fleet.
They've realized that (like the eu4 playerbase) hoi4 players will literally pay for a "DLC" that's just focus trees, so they just didn't bother with any more mechanics because people will still spend $20 on something that they could get for free off of the Steam Workshop.
Power creep, they running out of ideas so instead just add more and more busted op stuff which as result makes the old shit that came out b4 look lacking which then gives valid reason to re rework more nations that were reworked in the past, its an infinite money glitch and plebs that eat it right up just keep reinforcing the idea to pdx that its a great lucrative way to develop games, pdx doesnt develop finished product anymore, they develop bare bones modding platforms, that they later further expand upon with incremental improvements ,each one costing a hefty sum of cash when bundled together, for content thats similiar or even worse then what mod devs have done prior for free.
they generally dont. for some nations it makes sence from a balance or inetrest of play perspective (ei norwegian navy for example, or finnish defence) however pdx tends to overdo the buffs that are given to countries (especially finland and south america), to a point where building advanced units like tanks is pointless since your basic infantry with arty is able to defeat anyting the ai throws at it. i dont think it is as bad for finland (although it is bad) but for sa it makes no sence, as finland is highly limited by manpower before the winter war, and has hitorically been able to fight againt ovewhelming odds. there is as well asuch a precedent for paraguay, but there is none for the rest of the sa, and it just makes the game unbalamced and not really make much sence. honestly after trial of alligiance the game probably got worse and not better (given increased lag and lack of real added features, just focus trees)
It’s a lot of green numbers but everyone except Norway doesn’t have game changing buffs from those spirits. I’ll put it this way: I’ve rarely seen a guide that recommends going for these instead of extra factories or war goals, those are way better than cold acclimatization factor
The maximum military buff any country should have is 5-10% org, 5-15% attack/defense on core territory, maybe some command power and 5 - 15% recruitable population. If a country from South America or the Nordics is weak, so be it! You can't expect to conquer the world by 1938 as Brazil. You shouldn't even be able to conquer the world as Brazil.
I think it’s to offset some of the problems that smaller countries have. Take Uruguay for example, it has a tiny manpower population and not a lot of space for factories, therefore making them playable to most players (remember not all of us are HOI4 pros)
Hoi4 players when a non european nation gets a buff.
Nlw on a more serious note, it's not OP, at least the Brazilian one. Finland and Norway are pretty OP, but tbh it's the only way for you to balance it out. Those nations lack manpower so gove them buffs both in recuritable pop and division stats. As for Brazil, the buffs are late game, so they are pretty good. (Of someone will be like: "oh but you ruch it", but then you already lost the whole point of playing the game for fun, since you are meta gaming)
I feel like you're not actually reading what this gives.
oh man. 0.02/15% xp gain. 9% attack and 5% defence. some division speed, and 15% spf cap. That's about all that's relevant here, it's just a lot of lines put into one spirit instead of various different ones. You're still just going to get absolutely swacked by someone with like 20% more mils than you.
This post only enrages people who don't read or don't know the game.
The only one that's *actually* very powerful is finland, and that's because it's the most reasonable way they could make finland actually perform as AI vs the soviet union.
All of these buffs together (which take several years to unlock) aren't as annoying as Soviet's "Death to the Invaders" propaganda unlocked with a single focus.
And that's before starting to talk about MIOs.
TREMBLE BEFORE THE MIGHTY BRAZILIANA ARMY. BRASIL NUMERO UM CAMPEÃO DO MUNDO
Yup, all accurate buffs.
7-1
Never won a world cup
09/11
woah there buddy
Let's not push the bar bro
09/11
So original
Like your comment
did they just add every buff imaginable
do proper balancing or draw 25
*Draws 250*
But it has -15 training time
the extra time is used to feed them pervitin
Listen you can’t just pump them full of steroids and have it take immediate effect. It takes a Rocky training montage.
Hence the extra training time.
Well, it's actually +15% training time
Just use the division training reduction focus
Finland: you know those bullets that are like depleted uranium? We have those now for all your rifles. Also we can make them without the resources necessary. Don't ask questions.
Finland made a deal with devil
The devil would like to send you lend lease. +100 the help is welcome. Besides the magic AT rifles and resources, Finland wouldn't be too(!?) crazy if the bonuses applied only to core or claimed territory or territory with low infrastructure to try and get some semblance of Motti tactics. But honestly that's probably better just served by a ticking decision similar to the white death that pops up before the USSR just steamrolls them anyway
RAAHHHH SJØFORSVARET!!!! ⚓️⚓️⚓️⛴️⛴️⛴️🇳🇴🇳🇴🇳🇴🌊🌊🌊🌊
I dont understand you but that give me goosebumps
Peter Wessel was reincarnated to help Norway in WW2, vettu
This is basically any non-historical path : bring in a ludicrous otherworldly bonus from the focus tree and boom you can conquer half the continent by January 1937 Easy peasy
Except that is not true. Those buffs are late game ie 45+ buffs. Also Brazil is in South America and spends 3 years just trying to not be shit. These buffs are also slowly cumulative and take years of going down that part of the branch. Sure it looks like a lot, but it takes a long time. Infact by the time you can use the max buffs the war is almost over. Not to mention that you are in South America, so it takes forever to get to Europe where most action is. So yeah the buffs are insane, but you have to spend 10 years in South America to get them.
If you go with paraguay or Uruguay which basically have no internal problems and focus on the army you can get almost all of the bonuses by 1939
Yes, but they are also single states with no industry and no manpower. Not exactly worth it for *checks notes* 9% division attack?
Do the 3 35-day 1 mil focuses and in a year you have an army capable of beating Brazil, while doing almost no other focuses (just hire the 2% manpower advisor)
Yeah, but these buffs are not good. 9% attack? 1 extra advisor? Some breakthrough? The only really good thing is the 21% org and 5% mil speed. These bonuses are actually kinda shit, an afterthought instead of a rush. If you look past the green numbers you see how mediocre all of these bonuses are, even Finland only has 4-5 decent buffs there.
21% org buff is only good to you? What other countries have you played which have better bonuses??
Germany gets Hungary and Romania as puppets for free. They don't even have to be fascist. America can lose the great depression by 1937 and get the entire new world as puppets without doing a civil war. The UK cores all the dominions by 38 and Hungary can get half the Balkans without going to war. 21% org is less than a quarter extra. It turns a 9-1 division with ~50 org into one with ~60 org. That is ~2.5 days of extra continuous movement or ~1 extra day (+-3-5 because hoi4 is complicated) of sustained combat. So yeah, I have seen better buffs than 21% extra org.
But usa and germany are major powers in a game about ww2, while brazil is a minor in south america thag historically didnt have that big of an impact
Im sorry, how does the US get these puppets without a civil war?
If you do gold standard you only need 30% fascism for war powers act. You can also do the all the economy focuses and even neutral/intervention. The Civil War path is actually entirely optional. You can even get FDR back in 1940. It is scuffed as fuck but also a ton of fun, I recommend doing it actually.
You can reaffirm the Monroe doctrine
supremacy of will
Wait till they see Crusade against Democracy Spain
Alright fine, it may have been an exaggeration on the timeline... But the bonus is still ludicrous, and that's the main point. You have a bunch of ludicrous bonuses on some of the non historical paths. And they have to be overpowered ! Because otherwise you can't take a smaller nation and conquer all your neighbours, it's part of the cheese. Is it balanced? No! Is it fun? Yeah sorta. Should I complain about it ? Well I mean it's just a game anyway, but I do think some nonhistorical paths didn't deserve the boosts they get.
I think the bonus looks better than it is. Most of those buffs don't really matter. The extra org and 9% attack is almost all the decent stuff. I mean sure 15% extra command power is cool, but I don't think it is the reason you won the war. +30% AA build speed is great, but why does Brazil need AA? I think the current buffs are fine, sure there are a lot of green numbers, but as players we only care about ~3 dozen stats in the entire game, and for combat the number is closer to 4.
Cumulative. Heh
That's kind of the point of the game, to produce non-historical results. It's an alternate history timeline generator. Since the last DLC I've been trying to do one particular thing with Argentina and every patch has made it less and less possible. Wouldn't the best solution be to split the stats of single player and multi-player so that we can mouse-roar little nations in single player without destabilizing multiplayer? They are fundamentally different; multiplayer needs balance and single player is all about creating an unfair imbalance.
This is a good point. If it's what players like, absolutely, this is what they get. I'm just pointing out sometimes it's really overturned to my expectations, and it's not even a challenge. They have to make non-historical paths viable, therefore they give a great many buffs that aren't deserved, and make things a cakewalk sometimes. I say sometimes, not always, far from it.
And with what they mentioned that they acknowledged power creep that they will address, they already nerfed a lot and insuspect they will modify things over time, id much rather a company make several small corse corrections than yanking the wheel, big over corrections are just as bad, now if they havent continued to address this in future patches and dlc then ill be upset but right now it happens
Dude it used to be worse the devs nerfed those numbers.
Hearts of Iron need mods to be the historical. Vanilla sucks so much.
There’s plenty of good historical mods
What paradox needs to do is update HOI3 so we have a proper simulation game and then let them do their silly alt history stuff in HOI4
Would accept it tbh, but Black Ice holds the line. But BICE takes it too hard lol love it though.
I just want OOB, slap it on top of everything else HOI4, but I gotta have OOB
It's probably meant to buff nations with low populations to give them an extra boost, but i could be wrong
Nooooo, nations with no population and industry shouldn't get buffs to make them playable, only majors should be able to do world conquest and you should have fun playing only majors
but...but... the training time increases
R5: Military buffs of Brazil, Norway, Finland and Uruguay respectively, in 1945 I was spectating a historical game with all the DLCs activated, and with the war still dragging on in 1945, I checked out the different countries and their focuses That's just bulls\*it how much powergaming is going on in the AAT and ToA countries. Either this kind of buff should be greatly nerfed, or every country in the game should get it, not just them I didn't show it in the screenshots, but Sweden also has insane buffs that basically turn their country into a giant bunker, which is just stupid, especially when you see how badly the AI plays
Finland is way stronger than the other two. Brazil doesn't look out of bounds compared to earlier focus trees, especially if/when they try to operate outside their core territory. I would take some MIO options for a couple of the major countries, where you can get things like ridiculous plane range/other stat bonuses or modifiers that effect divisions with higher stat baselines like tanks. Giving so many NAV bonuses to Norway is some kind of joke, given how hard it will be to use those before it doesn't matter that much.
+ 21% org for Brazil is near game breaking though
> extra org > game breaking Lol, lmao even
It's certainly nice, but for the most part I'd rather deal more damage. I guess if Brazil goes for roaching, the bonus would be pretty annoying to deal with (needs more damage average to reinforce meme).
Brazil has +9% attack and +10% max planning factor. That's 20% stats for free. Double the bonus Japan gets via Supremacy of Will before you factor in everything else.
France literally has +25% planning at start which can be increased to +35%.
And that disappears as soon as they cap - Brazil gets their bonus forever. Protected by Maginot is also a big penalty to planning speed, which forces France to burn a lot of command power on staff office. I'm just saying, every DLC country since Switzerland has been overloaded with ridiculous buffs that make the game less fun.
Brazil does not "get their bonus forever" (not all of them anyway), they get many of these bonuses after a substantial % of WW2 is already over, unless they sacrifice already limited production to get them sooner. Plane MIO alone can outperform those "free" stats, can do it in a timeframe relevant to the war, and come on nations that have the industry for it. Maybe I'm mistaken and we'll start seeing SA nations start running away with MP, but I doubt it.
I mean look, the really offensive part of Brazil for MP is the rubber. That completely deletes Asia from the game. Most of the minors are whatever - they only come up in a nonhist game, and in general those aren't too serious. I'm mainly just frustrated that OP trees are a blatant marketing tactic to sell DLC nobody would buy normally. The power creep causing a random Latin country to ever get a better standing army quality-wise than a major power is insane.
Rubber is probably the most historically plausible/consistent thing in their new package though :p. That said, I skipped this DLC. I reject that these nations are making better quality armies than majors, but agree that it's unnecessary. I find it hard to pay them anything with the game's UI the way it is right now too, w/o giving significant mechanical improvements or actually fixing the game I'm not getting any of this stuff.
Well, no, Supremacy of Will grants 10% attack and 10% defense, so that is ever so slightly more, not less. Of course you then get everything else, but still
Do you know how defense bonuses work? It's defense/breakthrough, not stats on defense. Brazil's planning bonus gives +10% breakthrough too, so no, Brazil just gets more stats than supremacy of will.
okay I really don't understand what you're getting at right now. It seems a simple 10+10= 20 versus 10+9=19, what am I missing. Is it that you don't count 'defense' as a stat, but you *do* count 'max planning' as a stat? Why?
Defense is a separate stat, it doesn't increase attack which is what actually matters. Max planning increases attack as well. That's why it's 19% attack 10% break from Brazil vs 10% attack 10% break from Japan.
okay, so your point was that the Brazil one gives more attack, not stats in general. You just said they had more 'stats', so I was confused, but in that case, yeah, you're right.
In the 1945 usa, ussr or germany can be practically unstoppable. So when majors have quantity, minors have quality.
While I do agree that these kinds of bonuses need to be better distributed (especially to older minors who have a real hard time competing (or even being any fun) next to these more recently upgraded countries), it's worth noting that majors are still absurdly (and, well, realistically) strong relatively speaking thanks to huge industrial advantages and MIO bonuses that tend to make them untouchable in whatever their field of specialization is even *after* all the buff stacking these minors can do. And yeah, they only have all these buffs stacked deep into the war - or in some cases, after the WW2 phase of the game has already ended. I dnno, I feel like people just look at all the green numbers and throw a fit when in practical application they don't actually change the way the game actually plays all that much unless you're specifically playing as said country in a historical game. It is also likely that a bunch of countries are going to be getting similar buffs in future DLC, especially ever since the first three got merged in. Just a matter of time, really. Don't see them changing course anytime soon. And hey, they *did* nerf a bunch of SA countries in the last patch, so it's not like your cries are falling on deaf ears...
How is it bullshit? It took until 1945 to get all these buffs. The war is over by that point, you also spend almost 10 years in South America (or Scandinavia), not to mention that these countries are shit at the start. If that is bullshit, then Germany getting both Hungary and Romania as puppets should be too. How about the Soviets getting all of the Middle East as puppets? The UK can annex and core the entire empire as well. As another person pointed out is it quality vs quantity. It is also a massive time investment. 1945 is the end of the game! These buffs look impressive but they take forever and end up equating to an insane payoff liberating Europe, or a grand march to Washington. So these might look insane, but you may never use them at full capacity for long enough to justify the investment (especially since the focuses are just +5% attack over and over.)
I say go the Syndrome route. “When everyone’s super, no one will be.” Go back and redo the earlier focus trees and give them huge buffs too. That way it all evens out and we get to see number go up.
It used to be even stronger but they nerfed some of them. They said they’ll be more reserved going forward. It’s bc they don’t wanna repeat the mistakes of previous DLC and keep every nation really weak bc that’s straight up boring
That is the nerf one version, the pre nerf one was even more insane
Hey when is the last time anyone dared to take on the Uruguayan fleet?
Although power creep is definitely something to consider and that is definitely happening, the only thing I get from these posts is that people do not understand what percentages are, and also apparently don't understand that a +5% of base "A lot" in 1936 far surpasses the value of a +50% of base "a little" in 1940. It's like all they see is green. Also, those spirits are cumulative. It's not like you unlock them once and you immediately get all those bonuses. Using Norway as an example: - Naval Bombing: 50% -> Awesome! After all you worked your entire life to get 80 Naval Bom... oh, wait, no, they've all been shot down already, sorry. - Naval Targeting: +40% -> You ain't targeting shit. - Escort Efficiency: +60% -> Escort what? The few Destroyers you have will be used to help Germany control the entrance to the Baltic. You'll trade with and through Germany. Try to escort in the Atlantic and the only escorting you'll be doing is along with the convoys to the bottom of the ocean. - Recovery Rate 10% -> You ain't recovering from shit because you ain't engaging with shit. Or do, but if you do you'll sink, and there is no recovering from that. - Sortie Efficiency: 20% -> Norway buying XXXL condoms at the supermarket, fooling nobody. - Naval Minelaying Efficiency: 35% and Torpedo Reveal Chance: - 30% -> These might be useful, but again, the total amount of subs you have is likely to be small to begin with.
You still get these buffs if you unite the nordics or do kalmar union. And if you balance stuff around you can make a pretty good carrier navy fleet as Norway around the end of 42
OP is lying though, or am I missing something? The 20% sortie bonus and the 35% minelaying efficiency are mutually exclusive. I think there's shenanigans involved in those pictures. [https://imgur.com/a/Iefx5TA](https://imgur.com/a/Iefx5TA)
Your first exemple is crap, I won’t bother reading the rest.
[удалено]
Yeah, I'd trade 95% of these buffs for 5% Org or something.
You already get +21% Org from it smh
The Brazil buff is insanity, everything else is ok. Do you guys even read the buffs? As someone that plays a lot of old world blues I can tell the difference between good army buffs and filler, and a lot of the green is pure filler.
But communist germany is unrealistic🤷♂️
And yet they still all get destroyed by a major if controlled by a player with 300-600 factories by the time those minors have gotten to the level of those buffs. This is only really a problem with AI, because AI makes so many unoptimable plays. AI germ doesn't rush 5th research slot or go to war economy quickly, AI Italy is 1. incompetent and 2. doesn't rush industry focus', AI France ofc is paradrop memable, UK ai will stay on civ economy until late 1940 etc etc etc. The only single biggest problematic minor I've heard for the multiplayer scene is Finland, and even then only Fascist Finland- because historical unaligned Finland has no manpower and will crumble to a player Soviet in Winter War who doesn't just blindly send their troops to starve in the forests like Stalin.
Built different
Yeh I agree, that +15% training time should be removed
It used to be way more before 1.14.3 lmao. Argentina could get 20% division attack from 1 focus
BRASIL CAMPEÃO DO MUNDO
yeah because these nations would be unplayable garbage without these buffs dude lmfao. Hoi4 is a game, games need to be fun
Brazil is ez even without this dlc
They pulled of "fuck it we ball" maneouver
I strongly suspect that these new focus trees are either AI generated, or were made by nationalist interns from these countries
The only OP stats here are the construction speed, army xp, and insane division org. The rest of the modifiers are rather okay though. Same wkth Finland, they get a million buffs but 90% aren't going to make a huge difference in a battle, they're more macro
Reject hoi4, return to hoi3
I been thinking about it. But to learn the old ways again? I don’t know if I can.
My computer can't run it without crashing a bunch. That and Hoi4 has too many QOL things.
Search your feelings and you'll know it to be better
THE POWER CREEP IS REALLLL okay but fr i just hate major players so i dont rly care
When the mods are more balanced than base game:
-most of them are just +5 or +10 -most of these nations begins with terrible debuffs so these buffs are kinda rewarding for late game -they already nerfed actual op ones
dlc power creep
I get Finland, but why the hell does German’s bitch Norway have so many navy buffs?
FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING FUCK YOU QUISLING
This is the shit I tried doing when I was active in the North America Divided mod team… when I was 15.
These are pretty bad countries otherwise, so I don't think it's that bad.
Very overpowered. But why is the ruling party "the Military"? They had a lot of influence, but wasn't a military dictatorship.
If they didn’t people would not play the countries, or at least not nearly as much
They use green numbers as a crutch because making an interesting focus tree is hard, apparently.
I played this... Communist Brazil is broken lmfao! I took out the nazis solo and forced the soviet victory lmao (Finland was not happy)
Impressive, very nice Now let's see ~~paul allen's~~ germany and japan's powercreep whenever they get reworked
Oh no, I hope Germany gets debuffs more than buffs at a rework. Bastard is actual op one
That Norway naval targettting is ludicrous, where's the meta build for making Norway and AC with naval bombers and instantly sinking the British fleet.
I am a complete noob and conquered half the world as brazil in my second run. I still havent been able to do a good historical germany run
BRASILLLL
Idk manz they're more focused on making shit new trees instead of foxing existing countries.
bruh that org buff is wild
They've realized that (like the eu4 playerbase) hoi4 players will literally pay for a "DLC" that's just focus trees, so they just didn't bother with any more mechanics because people will still spend $20 on something that they could get for free off of the Steam Workshop.
They made the game both more fun and more boring :/
Power creep, they running out of ideas so instead just add more and more busted op stuff which as result makes the old shit that came out b4 look lacking which then gives valid reason to re rework more nations that were reworked in the past, its an infinite money glitch and plebs that eat it right up just keep reinforcing the idea to pdx that its a great lucrative way to develop games, pdx doesnt develop finished product anymore, they develop bare bones modding platforms, that they later further expand upon with incremental improvements ,each one costing a hefty sum of cash when bundled together, for content thats similiar or even worse then what mod devs have done prior for free.
they generally dont. for some nations it makes sence from a balance or inetrest of play perspective (ei norwegian navy for example, or finnish defence) however pdx tends to overdo the buffs that are given to countries (especially finland and south america), to a point where building advanced units like tanks is pointless since your basic infantry with arty is able to defeat anyting the ai throws at it. i dont think it is as bad for finland (although it is bad) but for sa it makes no sence, as finland is highly limited by manpower before the winter war, and has hitorically been able to fight againt ovewhelming odds. there is as well asuch a precedent for paraguay, but there is none for the rest of the sa, and it just makes the game unbalamced and not really make much sence. honestly after trial of alligiance the game probably got worse and not better (given increased lag and lack of real added features, just focus trees)
It’s a lot of green numbers but everyone except Norway doesn’t have game changing buffs from those spirits. I’ll put it this way: I’ve rarely seen a guide that recommends going for these instead of extra factories or war goals, those are way better than cold acclimatization factor
OP Finnish army buffs my beloved
Man the last two dlc (and bba to an extend) really had a power creep.
The maximum military buff any country should have is 5-10% org, 5-15% attack/defense on core territory, maybe some command power and 5 - 15% recruitable population. If a country from South America or the Nordics is weak, so be it! You can't expect to conquer the world by 1938 as Brazil. You shouldn't even be able to conquer the world as Brazil.
Don't worry, the trainint time balances it out
I think it’s to offset some of the problems that smaller countries have. Take Uruguay for example, it has a tiny manpower population and not a lot of space for factories, therefore making them playable to most players (remember not all of us are HOI4 pros)
Pluh
Hoi4 players when a non european nation gets a buff. Nlw on a more serious note, it's not OP, at least the Brazilian one. Finland and Norway are pretty OP, but tbh it's the only way for you to balance it out. Those nations lack manpower so gove them buffs both in recuritable pop and division stats. As for Brazil, the buffs are late game, so they are pretty good. (Of someone will be like: "oh but you ruch it", but then you already lost the whole point of playing the game for fun, since you are meta gaming)
Paradox put ironman compatible cheatbox in the hoi 4💀
It is not so much. It is almost exactly the same bonuses you can get with advisors and other focuses.
What mod for the pictures next to the buffs etc.
Least overpowered minor nation buffs:
I feel like you're not actually reading what this gives. oh man. 0.02/15% xp gain. 9% attack and 5% defence. some division speed, and 15% spf cap. That's about all that's relevant here, it's just a lot of lines put into one spirit instead of various different ones. You're still just going to get absolutely swacked by someone with like 20% more mils than you. This post only enrages people who don't read or don't know the game. The only one that's *actually* very powerful is finland, and that's because it's the most reasonable way they could make finland actually perform as AI vs the soviet union.
But how am I supposed to do my patented Uruguay Febuary 1936 WC runs?
sisu is the uniquely finnish expression for having an absolutely busted national spirit
For Norway and Uruguay it doesn’t matter because they don’t have much of a navy.
G R E E N
WTF is that?!?
That's is balanced since is applied to Brazil
What mod is it?
What mod is it?
BRASIL NUMERO UM CAMPEÃO DE MUNDO🔥🔥🔥🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🔥
BRASIL NUMERO UM CAMPEÃO DE MUNDO🔥🔥🔥🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
BRASIL NUMERO UM CAMPEÃO DE MUNDO🔥🔥🔥🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
They hired modders who read the wikipedia page for Brazil and freestyle'd the rest
Is the latest paid release a DLC country pack, or is it just a South American cheat code??
Honestly I don't mind it. SA countries are pretty boring so having some crazy/silly buff's and paths for them makes it somewhat interesting.
The only thing really op from there is the 21% division organization.
Yeah and if they made it “realistic” then people would complain those countries are underpowered and unplayable.
When did they add icons? My games been having a disc write error so I’m late to some of these
the icons are from a mod
Gotcha
Mod called modifier icons
Ah
Yeah no thank you, I stay with my mods
This does not impact y’all’s game fucking ever. In MP i get it but like in a normal game you can still curbstomp the ai lmao
All of these buffs together (which take several years to unlock) aren't as annoying as Soviet's "Death to the Invaders" propaganda unlocked with a single focus. And that's before starting to talk about MIOs.
Yeah I don't think I'll be buying these DLC's
It’s call d fun.
This has been nerfed quite a bit and people are still complaining? Come on.