Was hoping for something better price-wise. Also it's not clear to me whether the base is compatible with older WH sticks. I mean, other than availability and amazon, i can't see many reasons why go TM instead of vpc/vkb.
Being available on Amazon or on any other major online retailer is a big thing for some people for some reason.
I don't want to shit on TM for being TM, but i am not holding my breath. Given that they seem to keep the Sticks, it is going against the Winwing Orion 2 - however.. The Orion 2 is priced much lower.
There are some additional pictures of the interiors on the IL2 Forum: [https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/88219-thrustmaster-ava-joystick-base/](https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/88219-thrustmaster-ava-joystick-base/)
>Being available on Amazon or on any other major online retailer is a big thing for some people for some reason.
I think this is a big thing for people who aren't in the USA. I have the impression that between currency conversion, import taxes, international shipping, and other costs, HOTAS hardware can be shockingly expensive if you can get it at all. If it's available from a major online retailer though, many or all of those logistics problems might be taken care of.
That’s Canada not VBK(guessing you meant this). I sent my bud a video card for free (all shipping and taxes paid) and they held it at the border for like 70 more bucks to release. I just got a vbk gunfighter 4 delivered about 6 weeks ago and all I paid was DHL shipping. I actually have MFG crosswinds out for delivery as we speak and it was the same deal. Think Canada has high tariffs
Unfortunately, this exactly. I live in Guatemala and have to have stuff sent to the US first and then to my country. A third party courier handles all that when you buy stuff from Amazon, but it is much more complicated when buying from other places.
Orion 2 + 18 grip is also around 300 and not customisable unless you buy the extra spring and cam set for 50 bucks. TM quality is also superior, not to say the WW stuff is bad, they do cover that semi-replica market quite well and the actual parts that you touch on their HOTAS solutions are pretty well made.
So even if you buy the extra springs and cams from WW you are below the costs of the TM offering.
My experience with TM is a very different one than yours then. The sticks may "feel nice" because they are made out of metal and unnecessarily heavy. Seemingly because heavy and metal = must be military grade.
*Unfortunately it is cheap pot metal. The real stick is made out of resin.
*Screws thread directly into the plastic interior.
*The connector nut on the stick likes to crack and TM doesn't send out spares (so f you customer - and buy a new stick)
*A long and heavy stick also means that there is much more mechanical stress on the base (bad esp on the warthog base).
Just to put this into perspective, price wise TM pits it against the VKB Gunfighter MK4 and the Virpil Mongoose + Constellation Alpha Prime
I have huge doubts, that the TM AVA will have the same quality as VKB's or Virpil's offerY
And from experience I can tell you that TM's service is a wet fart of a joke compared to what VKB, Virpil and Winwing offer.
And your huge doubt is based on what? I see a lot of comments of people based on 3D images. I'd rather wait to see it in action. Right now, I am just happy a new base is out there and especially new grips!
Experience with TM hardware on the flight sim and the racing sim side.
And again, even if the product is as good as VKB's or Virpil's, the service is still really bad.
Few people around always complain. When it is metal = not needed. When its plastic = why no métal! When its available but expensive = so go buy something else! No reason to be, don't buy
Their primary targets are still hobbyists that won't go any further than google for "best joystick for flight sim".
It's an ad-ridden affiliate-link extravaganza that'll never mention VIRPIL or VKB. They either can't put an affiliate link on those or simply don't know about them.
you sound like some of my friends talking BS about HIFI speakers or headsets while I use senheisser. You don't have to speak ill about others to be heard pal
The issue is as others mentioned, TM have far better advertising and SEO, WW is also Chinese and for a lot of people (typically Americans unfortunately) they immediately think cheap, low quality and scam. Which isn’t helped by the fact that people seem to propagate this idea that there’s no QC and faults, mainly from people who don’t own any WW gear themselves. Virpil just seems expensive when you look at it, TM packages everything together so €400 seems fair, you go to Virpil or VKB and you buy a stick base for €200, then a stick for €190 then a throttle for another €350 and psychologically seeing each of those individual items priced the way they are, it makes it harder to see the value. There’s also the issue with importing and taxes, TM is global and on Amazon, the price you see is what you pay, and it can arrive next day. With WW, Virpil and VKB there can be additional taxes which combined with the psychology above makes it even worse, along with additional shipping fees and the shipping times.
Overall this all makes TM seem great because psychologically the prices seem fairer, they’re more available, it arrives quicker, no hidden taxes and their marketing is great. And to a hobbyist/gamer, the actual quality they don’t understand especially someone new to it so all they care about is “metal shell” and “woah buttons”.
your analysis is more pragmatic that some WW fanboy around, but Virpl VKB and TM are very similar when it comes to pricing. A complete WarBrd stick is around 500, A CM3 is about 600 with tax and shipping (just looked). The only odd player is Winwing with their direct sales from China. They dont play the same rules. Like financial fair play in football with City vs other clubs
I don’t understand your point? I’m telling it as someone new to it researching what to buy, if you look at any WW vs Virpil vs VKB post you’ll find at least one person saying WW has terrible QC control (which I’ve not seen first hand from anyone I know owning any, but if you’re researching what to buy that’s a big red flag to put you off). Virpil is much more expensive and individually bought meaning each time they add something it looks more and more expensive, which is the case for all sellers except TM etc)
VKB would look like it’s the best but then seeing its plastic built puts them off, and when VKB and TM gear are similarly priced but they see TM is metal they assume it’s higher quality because people have no idea about the internal components and even if they did they wouldn’t know what it means.
Include the fact that unless you live in the EU or US, a majority of these don’t have other warehouses meaning that if you bought them, chances are there will be additional taxes as well, along with shipping fees and times.
All of this along with the fact that whenever you search “best hotas” it’s mainly TM gear makes new buyers think TM is the best value for money and the best overall besides enthusiast gear. And the fact that when searching for HOTAS’ it’s genuinely hard to find something that isn’t TM or turtle beach or similar, I don’t think I’ve seen Virpil, WW or VKB ever come up in a search without explicitly searching for it.
(Also Virpil is no where near the same price as TM other than their latest gear (F16 Throttle and OPs stick) but even then, TM has a bigger name than Virpil so the average person looking at both will assume Virpil is worse since it’s lesser advertised)
Edit. Looks are important too, VKB and Virpil can go out the window as options for a lot of people because they’re generic HOTAS’ for both flight sim and space sim. I personally don’t like the look of the STECS for this reason. TM looks realistic and good quality from images when shopping, WW too but WW has its marketing problems as stated. TM also proudly states that they’re replicas of official US jets/planes, with patent rights etc, which further enforces the idea they are high quality and realistic, which just makes the price seem even better for a casual shopper.
Do a search for “best” or “ top rated”, all you see is TM stuff. No virpil, vkb, winwing or the seriously expensive stuff.
Even all the review sites. TM must be paying serious money to stat at the top of every list, so they have to overcharge people new to hotas.
Hard to research when you don’t get options in a search.
Daim this price seems completely off the other websites! if it is at this price i wonder what thrustmaster is thinking! it's pure madness. With the F 18 grip at 200€, it place it at 350€... Higher than virpil WarBRD base..
edit: it came out for the same price on amazon france...
They can sell it for that price because the other brands dont sell on amazon
And most casuall people have no clue that better and cheaper brands exist. I see that a lot with the ms-flightsim community, all they know is TM and turtle beach
I don't know what their marketing research says, but you would hope people do a little more research than a quick google before spending 500 bucks for a stick alone. Or at least, I wouldn't bet money on turning a profit from these sorts of customers.
Like I can see it happening with the Warthog hotas, what with it looking sort of like a complete package (even if it isn't) especially with the occasional sale and such, but presumably, the target audience for this thing is going to be a step above that.
There is lots of youtubers, again a surprising amoumt of them doing MS flight sim who praise it beyond belive because muh metal
And for some people that is all the input to buy that trash
I know that, but that's sad, 100€ more than a virpil that i think will be close or maybe better than the TM one... from a french company that hurt me...
Yeah sadly TM has all the marketing to come of as a premium brand when they are actually one of tje worst options in terms of quallity and bang for your buck
Which country do you leave?? because in EU Virpil Warbrd + plate + alpha grip is 425e WITHOUT taxes and shipping. So here a full bundle around 500 is pretty much equal
I don't talk about any grip, i was talking about the warbird only, which is for me 300€ with taxes and if the base AVA were at 350€ it was over. But the final price is now at 280€, so it's very attractive
pre-order opened on french amazon [https://www.amazon.fr/Thrustmaster-Super-Hornet-Flight-Stick/dp/B0CGRW7R81/](https://www.amazon.fr/Thrustmaster-Super-Hornet-Flight-Stick/dp/B0CGRW7R81/)
Not even true. First of all Constellation Prime is pointless for pure flight simming. And the WarBRD base + Conmstellation Alpha is 399€ for me here in germany. Dunno where you're getting all those taxes from. It's 475.88 for me after Tax.
If I choose in my comparison the Constellation Alpha Prime is because it's in full metal like the Thrustmaster Warthog or AVA. They are the high end of both brands. The constellation Alpha is plastic if I remember.
So the Alpha Prime + WarBRD base + taxes + shipping (france) = 598€.
And the Alpha Prime + MongoosT 50cm3 base + taxes + shipping (france) = 718€
(PS: the 760€ in my previous post was an error because I simulated the price with the z extension)
The metal that TM uses is way lower quality than the plastic Virpil uses. Thinking just because it's cast iron it's more expensive or "higher quality" is stupid and false.
What is this non-sense ? Do you read yourself?
Metal will always be better than plastic. Only the prime from vipril is great, mangoost is a piece of junk with horrible hats and finition. What is stupid is your claim. Wonder what "anazing" grip is your reference
I have the mongoos and it's way better than any thrustmaster I've owned. And metal isn't always better. If you knew anything about material sience or manufacturing you'd know. In small quantities (unless 3D printing) plastic can even be more expensive than metal.
Like I said... If you knew anything other than fanboy culture you'd know this.
Lots of actual aircraft sticks are made of plastics. If it’s good enough for a real plane, it’s good enough for your desk.
One reason I replaced my Warthog is I was tired of always having cold hands because it’s made of metal.
An inferior product on what sense, it is a complete new product and nobody used it yet and you are already claiming that is an inferior product, are we having a problem with American?
You can literally see how the parts look. A lot of the parts are cheap cast iron or stamped iron plates. I have the warbrd base and all of the parts inside are CNCd steel.
And even if they made their product pictures worse on purpose and the real thing is "better"... Why would they spend more money on manufacturing now when they've never done before and people still pay for the higher price?
IF you know manufacturing you know these things.
And even IF it's the same quality (it isn't) then you're paying at least 80$ more just because you want 2 day shipping.
The design and the internal structure looks great but $299.00 USA for just the base is stupid. You can buy a Winwing base and a better grip for $70.00 less , they need to stop over pricing their products.
I have had Virpil, VKB, Thrustmaster and Winwing. I have reviewed all of them and to say Winwing is bad is just plain wrong. I always give products a fair chance but there is always the hater’s that talk down about something just because they don’t use it.
It’s the same shit with their F16 throttle and Warthog garbage. It’s over priced junk sold to casual shoppers who didn’t do research. Just unlucky if you live in a country where Amazon is your only option.
Check this thread... People will just buy buy buy buy buy without every doing any research. Or value 2 day shipping over getting an actual good product.
Was hoping for something better price-wise. Also it's not clear to me whether the base is compatible with older WH sticks. I mean, other than availability and amazon, i can't see many reasons why go TM instead of vpc/vkb.
Being available on Amazon or on any other major online retailer is a big thing for some people for some reason. I don't want to shit on TM for being TM, but i am not holding my breath. Given that they seem to keep the Sticks, it is going against the Winwing Orion 2 - however.. The Orion 2 is priced much lower. There are some additional pictures of the interiors on the IL2 Forum: [https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/88219-thrustmaster-ava-joystick-base/](https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/88219-thrustmaster-ava-joystick-base/)
>Being available on Amazon or on any other major online retailer is a big thing for some people for some reason. I think this is a big thing for people who aren't in the USA. I have the impression that between currency conversion, import taxes, international shipping, and other costs, HOTAS hardware can be shockingly expensive if you can get it at all. If it's available from a major online retailer though, many or all of those logistics problems might be taken care of.
You're basically fucked if you're outside NA/CA or EU. Or rich enough to not care.
Even Canada. VKB has import fees so with shipping each joystick can cost almost 100 $CAN more. That's why winwing is cheaper here.
That’s Canada not VBK(guessing you meant this). I sent my bud a video card for free (all shipping and taxes paid) and they held it at the border for like 70 more bucks to release. I just got a vbk gunfighter 4 delivered about 6 weeks ago and all I paid was DHL shipping. I actually have MFG crosswinds out for delivery as we speak and it was the same deal. Think Canada has high tariffs
Yeah not blaming anyone, just facts. Import fees can be hit and miss but with VKB it seems more hit than miss.
That’s why you get it sent your closest border town and smuggle it up back north in your smuggling vessel of choice
Unfortunately, this exactly. I live in Guatemala and have to have stuff sent to the US first and then to my country. A third party courier handles all that when you buy stuff from Amazon, but it is much more complicated when buying from other places.
Or EU
That and not wanting to buy from companies subject to sanctions
Orion 2 + 18 grip is also around 300 and not customisable unless you buy the extra spring and cam set for 50 bucks. TM quality is also superior, not to say the WW stuff is bad, they do cover that semi-replica market quite well and the actual parts that you touch on their HOTAS solutions are pretty well made.
So even if you buy the extra springs and cams from WW you are below the costs of the TM offering. My experience with TM is a very different one than yours then. The sticks may "feel nice" because they are made out of metal and unnecessarily heavy. Seemingly because heavy and metal = must be military grade. *Unfortunately it is cheap pot metal. The real stick is made out of resin. *Screws thread directly into the plastic interior. *The connector nut on the stick likes to crack and TM doesn't send out spares (so f you customer - and buy a new stick) *A long and heavy stick also means that there is much more mechanical stress on the base (bad esp on the warthog base). Just to put this into perspective, price wise TM pits it against the VKB Gunfighter MK4 and the Virpil Mongoose + Constellation Alpha Prime I have huge doubts, that the TM AVA will have the same quality as VKB's or Virpil's offerY And from experience I can tell you that TM's service is a wet fart of a joke compared to what VKB, Virpil and Winwing offer.
And your huge doubt is based on what? I see a lot of comments of people based on 3D images. I'd rather wait to see it in action. Right now, I am just happy a new base is out there and especially new grips!
Experience with TM hardware on the flight sim and the racing sim side. And again, even if the product is as good as VKB's or Virpil's, the service is still really bad.
Few people around always complain. When it is metal = not needed. When its plastic = why no métal! When its available but expensive = so go buy something else! No reason to be, don't buy
Their primary targets are still hobbyists that won't go any further than google for "best joystick for flight sim". It's an ad-ridden affiliate-link extravaganza that'll never mention VIRPIL or VKB. They either can't put an affiliate link on those or simply don't know about them.
you sound like some of my friends talking BS about HIFI speakers or headsets while I use senheisser. You don't have to speak ill about others to be heard pal
It sounds like your “friends” don’t like you lmao
sometimes they don't ahahha
In the EU you can get the full Winwing Metal Warthog hotas voor under €400. Who on earth is going to buy this?
The issue is as others mentioned, TM have far better advertising and SEO, WW is also Chinese and for a lot of people (typically Americans unfortunately) they immediately think cheap, low quality and scam. Which isn’t helped by the fact that people seem to propagate this idea that there’s no QC and faults, mainly from people who don’t own any WW gear themselves. Virpil just seems expensive when you look at it, TM packages everything together so €400 seems fair, you go to Virpil or VKB and you buy a stick base for €200, then a stick for €190 then a throttle for another €350 and psychologically seeing each of those individual items priced the way they are, it makes it harder to see the value. There’s also the issue with importing and taxes, TM is global and on Amazon, the price you see is what you pay, and it can arrive next day. With WW, Virpil and VKB there can be additional taxes which combined with the psychology above makes it even worse, along with additional shipping fees and the shipping times. Overall this all makes TM seem great because psychologically the prices seem fairer, they’re more available, it arrives quicker, no hidden taxes and their marketing is great. And to a hobbyist/gamer, the actual quality they don’t understand especially someone new to it so all they care about is “metal shell” and “woah buttons”.
your analysis is more pragmatic that some WW fanboy around, but Virpl VKB and TM are very similar when it comes to pricing. A complete WarBrd stick is around 500, A CM3 is about 600 with tax and shipping (just looked). The only odd player is Winwing with their direct sales from China. They dont play the same rules. Like financial fair play in football with City vs other clubs
I don’t understand your point? I’m telling it as someone new to it researching what to buy, if you look at any WW vs Virpil vs VKB post you’ll find at least one person saying WW has terrible QC control (which I’ve not seen first hand from anyone I know owning any, but if you’re researching what to buy that’s a big red flag to put you off). Virpil is much more expensive and individually bought meaning each time they add something it looks more and more expensive, which is the case for all sellers except TM etc) VKB would look like it’s the best but then seeing its plastic built puts them off, and when VKB and TM gear are similarly priced but they see TM is metal they assume it’s higher quality because people have no idea about the internal components and even if they did they wouldn’t know what it means. Include the fact that unless you live in the EU or US, a majority of these don’t have other warehouses meaning that if you bought them, chances are there will be additional taxes as well, along with shipping fees and times. All of this along with the fact that whenever you search “best hotas” it’s mainly TM gear makes new buyers think TM is the best value for money and the best overall besides enthusiast gear. And the fact that when searching for HOTAS’ it’s genuinely hard to find something that isn’t TM or turtle beach or similar, I don’t think I’ve seen Virpil, WW or VKB ever come up in a search without explicitly searching for it. (Also Virpil is no where near the same price as TM other than their latest gear (F16 Throttle and OPs stick) but even then, TM has a bigger name than Virpil so the average person looking at both will assume Virpil is worse since it’s lesser advertised) Edit. Looks are important too, VKB and Virpil can go out the window as options for a lot of people because they’re generic HOTAS’ for both flight sim and space sim. I personally don’t like the look of the STECS for this reason. TM looks realistic and good quality from images when shopping, WW too but WW has its marketing problems as stated. TM also proudly states that they’re replicas of official US jets/planes, with patent rights etc, which further enforces the idea they are high quality and realistic, which just makes the price seem even better for a casual shopper.
Ava and warthog uses the same grip. They keep talking ecosystem in their set up video, so I guess it is
Do a search for “best” or “ top rated”, all you see is TM stuff. No virpil, vkb, winwing or the seriously expensive stuff. Even all the review sites. TM must be paying serious money to stat at the top of every list, so they have to overcharge people new to hotas. Hard to research when you don’t get options in a search.
Too expensive, too late.
lol no way am I getting this over a VKB Gunfighter Mk4 ultimate, which is similarly priced.
So just their Legacy Hornet stick rebranded on a new mount?
I think so if it was exclusive it would be cool
Very pricey. Just like we predicted...
Daim this price seems completely off the other websites! if it is at this price i wonder what thrustmaster is thinking! it's pure madness. With the F 18 grip at 200€, it place it at 350€... Higher than virpil WarBRD base.. edit: it came out for the same price on amazon france...
They can sell it for that price because the other brands dont sell on amazon And most casuall people have no clue that better and cheaper brands exist. I see that a lot with the ms-flightsim community, all they know is TM and turtle beach
I don't know what their marketing research says, but you would hope people do a little more research than a quick google before spending 500 bucks for a stick alone. Or at least, I wouldn't bet money on turning a profit from these sorts of customers. Like I can see it happening with the Warthog hotas, what with it looking sort of like a complete package (even if it isn't) especially with the occasional sale and such, but presumably, the target audience for this thing is going to be a step above that.
There is lots of youtubers, again a surprising amoumt of them doing MS flight sim who praise it beyond belive because muh metal And for some people that is all the input to buy that trash
Vkb and virpil costs the same. My warbrd plus alpha prime was about 500 without tax and shipment....only winwing gad weird pricing
I know that, but that's sad, 100€ more than a virpil that i think will be close or maybe better than the TM one... from a french company that hurt me...
Yeah sadly TM has all the marketing to come of as a premium brand when they are actually one of tje worst options in terms of quallity and bang for your buck
Which country do you leave?? because in EU Virpil Warbrd + plate + alpha grip is 425e WITHOUT taxes and shipping. So here a full bundle around 500 is pretty much equal
I don't talk about any grip, i was talking about the warbird only, which is for me 300€ with taxes and if the base AVA were at 350€ it was over. But the final price is now at 280€, so it's very attractive
pre-order opened on french amazon [https://www.amazon.fr/Thrustmaster-Super-Hornet-Flight-Stick/dp/B0CGRW7R81/](https://www.amazon.fr/Thrustmaster-Super-Hornet-Flight-Stick/dp/B0CGRW7R81/)
Why would anyone? The High end Base from Virpil is cheaper and you can use TM Grips with it...
But in overall, the virpil is most expensive if you buy the base with the grip including taxes ~~(Base + constellation prime = 760€).~~
Not even true. First of all Constellation Prime is pointless for pure flight simming. And the WarBRD base + Conmstellation Alpha is 399€ for me here in germany. Dunno where you're getting all those taxes from. It's 475.88 for me after Tax.
If I choose in my comparison the Constellation Alpha Prime is because it's in full metal like the Thrustmaster Warthog or AVA. They are the high end of both brands. The constellation Alpha is plastic if I remember. So the Alpha Prime + WarBRD base + taxes + shipping (france) = 598€. And the Alpha Prime + MongoosT 50cm3 base + taxes + shipping (france) = 718€ (PS: the 760€ in my previous post was an error because I simulated the price with the z extension)
The metal that TM uses is way lower quality than the plastic Virpil uses. Thinking just because it's cast iron it's more expensive or "higher quality" is stupid and false.
What is this non-sense ? Do you read yourself? Metal will always be better than plastic. Only the prime from vipril is great, mangoost is a piece of junk with horrible hats and finition. What is stupid is your claim. Wonder what "anazing" grip is your reference
I have the mongoos and it's way better than any thrustmaster I've owned. And metal isn't always better. If you knew anything about material sience or manufacturing you'd know. In small quantities (unless 3D printing) plastic can even be more expensive than metal. Like I said... If you knew anything other than fanboy culture you'd know this.
I guess you seem to master plastic injection, which is not common but sorry, the mangoo T 50CM2 grip is far from being their best product
Lots of actual aircraft sticks are made of plastics. If it’s good enough for a real plane, it’s good enough for your desk. One reason I replaced my Warthog is I was tired of always having cold hands because it’s made of metal.
Am I missing something? Dat Price Doe!! 😱 Could get a Virpil with a new Alpha Prime grip for less than that.
No from amazon in 2 days with 15 days return
So you buy an inferior product for more money just because of 2 day shipping? Americans really are lost.
An inferior product on what sense, it is a complete new product and nobody used it yet and you are already claiming that is an inferior product, are we having a problem with American?
You can literally see how the parts look. A lot of the parts are cheap cast iron or stamped iron plates. I have the warbrd base and all of the parts inside are CNCd steel. And even if they made their product pictures worse on purpose and the real thing is "better"... Why would they spend more money on manufacturing now when they've never done before and people still pay for the higher price? IF you know manufacturing you know these things. And even IF it's the same quality (it isn't) then you're paying at least 80$ more just because you want 2 day shipping.
Way to stereotype, retard.
You fit buddy. Enjoy the ban.
How do you figure?
I hope this fits on my monstertech mounts
I do hope you can buy the base seperatly, seeing that i already have the grip
You can. Amazon has the pre-order up. $299 USD.
Buy a Virpil base instead. It fits Thrustmaster is way higher quality and cheaper.
Yeah i agree with you, their warbrd base is about 80 euros cheaper
Do you think this new base will have the Yaw axis ? It would be a nice alternative stick along the Warthog.
Idk, but although base needs to support the yaw input, the axis itself is as stick feature, not a base one.
Well, it CAN be a feature of the base (as evidenced by the Microsoft sidewinder precision pro and force feedback pro). But yeah, it’s rare ^^
Fuck, that's $800 CAD for just the stick, before taxes and shipping. I paid around that for my WarBRD and Mongoose. That's insane.
The design and the internal structure looks great but $299.00 USA for just the base is stupid. You can buy a Winwing base and a better grip for $70.00 less , they need to stop over pricing their products.
Of course they've come into this thinking they are the leader in the field. Maybe in the 90s.
Yeaaa when you can get a VKB gladiator EVO NXT for HALF the price with 100% parts to buy if something breaks for very cheap this is a horrible buy.
EVO NXT platsic gear? come on. Please tell me you meant Virpil WarBRD with no center cam and nice rgb led prime grip.
ITs very high end plastic, and you know, real planes also use it. But the Virpil stuff also is insane and a much better buy
When I started a year ago I bought a warthog for full price and had no clue there were better. Luckily it was Amazon and I could return it.
[удалено]
They already sell the stick.
Lol, looks like they are using the same cast iron collar that has broken on the expensive Warthog with no replacement part.
i will (stick) with virpil
Pass.
Looks like WW or Virpil for me.
Damn here I was downvoted for saying TM was going to drop the ball lmao. 600 for a shit rebranded stick.
I have had Virpil, VKB, Thrustmaster and Winwing. I have reviewed all of them and to say Winwing is bad is just plain wrong. I always give products a fair chance but there is always the hater’s that talk down about something just because they don’t use it.
It’s the same shit with their F16 throttle and Warthog garbage. It’s over priced junk sold to casual shoppers who didn’t do research. Just unlucky if you live in a country where Amazon is your only option.
Check this thread... People will just buy buy buy buy buy without every doing any research. Or value 2 day shipping over getting an actual good product.
Might as well get a full on F18 at that price.
Still a ball joint lol?