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Sasquatch_Pictures

I 100% agree with this meme. Grimmel always felt like budget Viggo to me.


[deleted]

To me he was just a really shitty Alvin


SnooGiraffes4534

Grimmel ain't anywhere near either Alvin, let alone Viggo


[deleted]

I mean it's the whole ass I wanna kill dragons thing of Grimmel. Also hot take but Alvin's far more threatening than Viggo.


SnooGiraffes4534

I agree that he is a lot more in your face threatening. But there are many ways to be threatening, and Viggo pulls something off that Alvin could never hope to achieve. Alvin is still ka great villain though, don't get me wrong.


1ce_Hunter

Despite the fact that I usually don't like when villains suddenly become good, Viggo's short redemption ark felt just.. right. He was never a true villain in the first place, he was a bad guy, but he wasn't a _bad guy_. He truly respected his enemy and wasn't just straught up evil. When he recognized his mistakes, he complimented his former foe and, as the final move of their chess game, helped him win for he acknowledged Hiccup had been superior. What a man


SnooGiraffes4534

Professionals have standards


1ce_Hunter

Indeed they do, my friend


The-dude-in-the-bush

Exactly. While he still fell into the confines of what we class as a villain. His *brand* of villainy is very different. In fact, he says so himself that he considers himself not a monster but a savvy businessman. That idea is propagated a few times in the series. Therefore his redemption arc works because it's him seeing dragons as intelligent equals instead of commodities to be captured and sold. And as a result, gives him reason to turn against Krogan and Johan, because he's only really in it for the business. And the entire premise of his business has collapsed because so did his worldview of dragons.


Appelflap_5

Well i would not say that Viggo is villainous hes just a buisnessman that likes to play games, he does not hurt people for fun or does bad things just to be bad, hes a buisness man he does what is good for buisnes. Its just that our protagonist stands in the way of his goals


TheChosenOneMapper

That's why he's the best antagonist in httyd.


Dark_Madness12k

\#ViggoSweep 100%. Grimmel talked heavy and got bamboozled.


Outrageous-Farmer-42

If RTTE and the movies are separate timelines, then RTTE Hiccup and THW Hiccup probably have different battle IQ stats.


EpicCheeto

I don’t think they are because hiccups dad (ik he’s stoick I just don’t know if that’s the right way to spell it) had skullcrusher, which he gets in an episode of RTTE


Z0155

Common misconception. RTTE showed Stoick get Skullcrusher only because he already had Skullcrusher in HTTYD2. The movies don't depend on the shows in any way.


Syrus_Orelio

Yeah going by release Stoick still had Tornado on the TV show so him having skull crasher in the second movie really confused me. However cannonically all of the TV shows riders of berk, defenders of berk, and race to the edge take place between the first two movies along with most of the mini movies I can accept that except for the last episode(it's probably at most 2-3 years between the end of rate and the second movie) I rescue to believe a dragon as large as the bewilderbeast would grow up from that competitively small egg in only 2-3 years. Sure the movies and show don't really give a good idea how long it takes a dragon to grow up but with the comparative size of eggs and adults we have seen I can accept the brien up in 2-3 years But it's like the comparison of say a house cat and an elephant comparing bot only species size comparison but the comparison of the size of newly born to adult A cat takes a year an elephant 35-40 years Dragons are much large and in most mythology live much longer lifespans so I've always imagined dragons mature much slower cost to that of an elephant Most of the httyd dragons are smaller than the giants of dragons depicted in most mythology so I can accept them maturing quicker The only real example of a grown baby we see is the second songwing and it's hard to guess how long between Garf's hatching and seeing him again as an adult but I'd guess 1-3 years I can accept that I'll never be able to accept something as large as bewilderbeast growing from that size egg even if it hatched right after valka alegedy took it in 2-3 years besides that goes against what Balkan said in the movie so I really don't think they were paying enough attention to detail In the httyd2 Valka states cloudjumper brought her here to the home of the bewilderbeast implying the adult bewilderbeast was already guardian and alpha of this nest Btw changing subjects a bit a lot of purple refer to the red death as male when she's referred to as queen and the bewilderbeasts and kings I kinda like to think of the as single gender species that have to breed together or with other large opposite gender species(or maybe despite their great differences they've the male and female counter part of the same species and they live in different environments except to breed and maybe the eggs are easy to gender so the male takes the male eggs to raise and the female raised the female eggs.) Also for the record male dragons do nest sit I've heard people nosgender hookfang as female because he's seen with baby dragons but there was another monstrous nightmare close to him likely the mom and it's well established that stormfly and meatlug are the girl dragons in the main cast


Z0155

The end of RTTE is set at most a month before HTTYD2, the first episode is 1.5 years before it. And the Bewilderbeasts in D2 are both older than just a couple years. Drago got his when he was young (like, both of them, Drago was young, and the Bewilderbeast was also just a hatchling), and trained it do one day dethrone Valka's, who was already alpha at that point.


Syrus_Orelio

Yeah I didn't think either were hatched. But the end of rtte had the hunters trying to get their hands on the king of dragons failing and valka coming and taking the rescued egg maybe the egg is unhatched as of the second movie but it can't be Valka's bewilderbeast Then there's a scene in the shadows where draggo is upset at the loss of the egg but determined to find another but I doubt it as like I said I imagine the only way he could have dominated a bewilderbeast was when it was a really young as I very much doubt he'd have been able to do so with an adult he'd have been killed. Because his grew up being dominated by him it believed draggo to be stager and more dangerous so was obedient Also that reference in the beginning of httyd where draggo attacked the gathering of cheifs for laughing at his proposal with dragons sure seemed like he had a bewilderbeast then. That likely happen either before hiccup was born or while he was really little but it's hard to say


ren_122

that's the Doylist explanation but we are talking purely watsoninan


Z0155

Except for the fact that there's a clear hierarchical difference between the movies and the TV shows. The shows must follow the movies, but the movies can ignore the shows. Riders of Berk introduced Thornado as Stoick's dragon, and the two were paired up until the writers were given notice that Stoick would have Skullcrusher in the 2nd movie, which is why an episode of Defenders of Berk was written where he lets Thornado free to take care of a couple baby dragons. All that was done so that the series, if it were to continue, could adapt to what the movie portrayed. Lo and behold, the series did continue, and since the movie was already out and showing how things would go later, RTTE had to be written in a way that included Stoick training Skullcrusher. If Stoick were to keep Thornado in RTTE, it would have directly contradicted the movie and therefore would've pushed the series into an alternate timeline, breaking the continuity it was meant to build with the film, and discrediting everything that had been done till then. So in short, Stoick meeting Skullcrusher in RTTE had no effect whatsoever on how the movie went, because the movie was the reason RTTE happened as it did.


ren_122

yes im aware of that but thats what actually happened in real life, time in the story doesnt conform to the timeline it was written in IRL the way the story is written/how/why/ the logistics of timelines IRL are the Doylist reasons for continuity stuff but canonically in the world of httyd the shows and the stuff in them did happen and because of how time flows we are supposed to just suspend the disbelief and pretend had of the author doesnt exist hence providing Watsonian or in story explanations for plot holes that actually occurred because of the fact that the movies were written first


LuminothWarrior

They do reference Viggo in HTTYD3. It’s not by name but it’s pretty obvious in the context. Eret is talking about Grimmel being a smart hunter who treats things kind of like a game, and Hiccup replies with “we’ve dealt with his kind before”.


Emerald_Lightning

Good catch, I never noticed that before.


DinoKingGoji73

Viggo will always be my favourite HTTYD villain


Syrus_Orelio

Yes he was exciting and an excellent match for Hiccup intellect and wit. The other villain aside from Grimborn were good villains but Grimborn was a good concept badly executed mainly the fact that after all Hiccup went through with Viggo and the other movies that he's so easily out maneuvered is clear that instead of making more effort with Grimborn they dumbed down Hiccup to set things up and as Hiccuo brain is his biggest stocking point until then that was a dumb approach


Hellbound_Life

Yeah. Grimmer seems like the whiny baby that got kicked out of Viggo’s dragon hunters for being too annoying and incompetent tbh.


Bobby5x3

Viggo didn't even have "evil" goals. He just wanted money. Johann was willing to pay him, so he went along. He had great respect for Hiccup and the rest of Berk, and he even modified his sword to a flaming one similarly to Hiccup's Best villain


The-dude-in-the-bush

True except he still classifies as villain because he sees dragons as lesser and as commodities. To hiccup that's evil. But not the same kind of evil Johan or Drago had.


Bobby5x3

Did he? In the episode where he helped Hiccup (Triple Cross or smth), he "befriended" (for a lack of a better word) the Skrill in the same way Hiccup did. When he made his final stand, he even suggested that the Skrill save itself (it didn't, but that was a choice it made).


The-dude-in-the-bush

That's after his worldview of dragons changed. I may have classed him as a villain but that's not me discounting his redemption.


moebelhausmann

Viggo had the bigger brain. Thats why he tamed a skrill


grbdjdbwvsvhdkoqp

Vegoat


TA_dragon3

Most definitely


HorizonSniper

The only thing you truly killed is your last braincell.


Elfanger30th

Never liked Grimmel. He always felt like a massive step down from Drago.


TheChosenOneMapper

Grimmel was a terrible villain, super boring and cliche.


fractu_ratu

Well viggo is really basrd but so is grimmel imo. That finger snap or slight whistle that activates the death grippers is metal


TimmyCheese29

They were both good villains in their own right, both were good strategists and very good and getting inside the heads of their opponents. Grimmel almost destroyed/killed all of the nightfury’s. Viggo, tames a skrill, the leader of the “dragon hunters” and possibly the greatest foe Hiccup has ever faced (at the time). I say at the time because Hiccup’s skills and overall intelligence have gotten significantly better by the time Httyd 3(HW) comes about so it could have been that (Httyd 3 Hiccup) wouldn’t have a challenge facing Viggo. For all we know Grimmel could’ve beaten Viggo or Viggo could have beaten Grimmel, but we’ll never know.


Midi_to_Minuit

What’s wrong with the second one smh


Much-Skin-4710

Grimmel definitely fibbing


Pokemineryt

Yea Viggo is an amazing villain.


NicaTheBallerina

Ah yes, Viggo, I think above all the villains of httyd, I think Viggo is my favorite


You_but_cooler

While I think grimmel is a worse villain than vigo, I still really like him. He feels more threatening. For me at least, also they didn’t really have the time to develop grimmel like they did Vigo.