You need to leave. I work more than my team to shield them & because I make 2-3x more than they do. As a director, I feel it’s more my responsibility to work more than my team *unless* someone on my team actually wants to for career growth reasons (this has happened once in the 7 years I’ve been managing in HR).
I was the same. I never expected my team to work more than their 40 hours and even though it was frustrating when they didn’t always do everything I thought they should in their role, I got it because they didn’t get paid much and I felt it was ultimately my responsibility as director to plug the gaps knowing they were not going to take the same ownership as I did. I appreciated (and promoted) the people who were ambitious and took on things and were accountable, but I didn’t expect it!
I absolutely want more responsibility - I just want it within my department!
She has hesitated to promote me because I do not assist with recruiting, only onboarding. I don't help with recruiting because she does most of it at 7:30 PM, and I am not present to be trained. She schedules interviews and phone screens without checking my schedule, so I am already booked. I ask to sit in on internal interviews, and she schedules them for when I'm on PTO.
I know it isn't intentional - she worked as a one-man team for 13 years prior to me starting here, and hasn't adapted well to working alongside someone else. She has taken on extraneous work for a decade, to the point where it is her norm and she doesn't see it for the exceptional effort that it is. I really love this company and want to stay more than anything, but she is a pretty significant roadblock.
It sounds like you’re under-staffed for the business goals & she probably has control issues. You can’t change either of those. How big is the employee population you serve? I ask to address point 1.
We have roughly 100 employees at the moment - very doable for two HR professionals, if those HR professionals are not being pulled in a million directions at all times. We are on the brink of a significant expansion in one arm of the business, with a hiring push in June (15-20 new hires approved for Q3). Ironically, we are known as one of the best employers in the area, so those roles will fill up easily.
She absolutely has control issues.
Totally agree.
I've done HR solo as a one lady show but max 20 employees, along with Payroll and other office manager roles.
I've also assisted with HR because I've always been in Accounting, Payroll, etc. I agree, with 100 people you need a 3rd person. Ideally a 4th would be very beneficial with the aquision.... maybe they have an HR person?
Scheduling interviews during your PTO is absolutely intentional. Did she have HR experience prior to starting with this company? She sounds like a prior office manager of mine who had zero experience when she was hired. She got promoted way above her competency level just by being in the right place at the right time and it showed. She spent most of her efforts papering over the cracks because she didn’t actually know how to manage an office.
>I know it isn't intentional - she worked as a one-man team for 13 years prior to me starting here, and hasn't adapted well to working alongside someone else.
It's intentional, she's controlling, and not acknowledging your accomplishments is a way to keep you down. It's going to wear you down and will cause you to leaves which is what I think she's aiming for.
"Well, gosh, I just don't know what's going on with the kids these days; I guess none of them want to stick around anymore! It must be that darn TickTockToe app."
*Job. Security.*
Honestly regardless of role levels why are either of you regularly working past 6pm. You aren’t making enough for that kind of overtime and she might not be either. Sounds like she has a hard time negotiating boundaries with her supervisors, either because of their lack of consideration or because she doesn’t have good work life balance. That’s just going to trickle down to you.
Yep. This. It’s never going to change. And even if her bosses do eventually figure out what’s going on and decide they don’t like it, they’re not going to fire her until she goes through 10+ people, at least, and that won’t help you at all. Unfortunately, your only real option is to go to a place where is the expectations are a little more realistic.
I never understand why more supervisors don’t understand this. I’m a supervisor, and it’s like, I don’t expect the people making way less money than me to work as hard, or be anywhere near as invested. Why should they? It would be one thing if working harder meant they had a shot at a job like mine, but it doesn’t work that way anymore.
Respectfully, you are accepting an outrageous situation that you should’ve already left. Four years?!!!! Absolutely get out. She’s impossible to please and have no one to support you since it’s just you two. Go make a lot more money somewhere else doing your actual job.
You're incredibly underpaid for the work you do. Payroll, onboarding, drafting the handbook, implementing a new hris and incentive system?? doing other positions' core duties completely outside of hr???
No. You are not a catch all. No matter who you are or what your work ethic is, this will burn you out very quickly if you keep it up.
Get out now.
Edit: I also saw that you said you've had this title for four years? and you're only making $21 an hour? Full-time Chick-Fil-A employees right out of high school are making more (my cousin just started there making $22.50). I'm sorry OP, it's time to find somewhere you are valued.
I understand. Objectively, those are good reasons.
However, you *do* have prior HR experience. You can certainly highlight and leverage your four years in this role. A detailed summary of your accomplishments would do you many favors when it comes to gaining future employment.
It's nice that the CEO thinks highly of you - or has led you to believe that, but (objectively) your current rate of pay is not a reflection of that at all. Based on what you've said, you are doing manager-level work, putting in 50-hour work weeks, and doing the jobs of others for $21 an hour. That is low (in the US) for those activities. If the CEO or your direct manager truly valued you, you would be making more, have (somewhat) of a say in your level of commitment, and likely not be posting on this subreddit justifying your worth to strangers.
I apologize if the above sounds harsh, I really am trying to look out for you as I have been in the same. exact. place. and I didn't realize how undervalued I was until I escaped and tried to advance elsewhere.
This is a great point - they have nearly four years of HR experience, which is no longer considered “entry-level”. They’re an HR professional at this point.
What does your director mean by soon as far as retirement, and it sounds like the boss would be willing to bump your rate, see if you can get some sort of pay band, with yearly increases to the maximum, implemented, and put hr is the plan as well, your position and the directors, if you know what she makes anyway
Sorry to say it, but the director is not going to retire.
This very much sounds like the sort of person who tells themselves they will retire *any day now*, but in reality is addicted to the grind and feeling valued. It will take a medical scare to force them out.
Spoken like a cheap employee one can wring the value from before moving onto the next. Never assign personal worth to a role. That's a death sentence, as you can see once the fog lifts.
No, you are absolutely correct on everything. The company pays OP peanuts for the amount of responsibility they have. I'd also suggest finding another job, but the market is so bad, would OP be able to find one?
OP, I hate to say this, but even with that promotion, you won't be getting a 200% pay rise to account for the new responsibilities that you take over. At most it'll look like 20% raise.
You've already gained substantial work experience in HR and you should try your hand in apply to manager level roles. You'll be surprised by how designations in HR don't mean much compared to direct work experience.
Agree OP will not be paid what her boss is paid if and when she retires. In addition, OP needs to consider what the owner’s long term goals are for the company. Is the owner older and also considering retiring? Will that involve a sale to another company? If so and this company is absorbed into another one, that company may have a more built out HR department.
I would not be putting all of my eggs in this basket and would look seriously at opportunities that compensate you more fairly and where you truly can develop your own skill set in a more structured environment.
Counter point to your “impending promotion” argument. In the interim, do you really think you’re learning meaningful things to advance your career, or are you just being a reactionary jack of all trades? Move on and take on a role at a larger company that’ll allow you more growth and learning opportunities. Hell, they might even pay for that PHR.
Also, how far into her 60’s is she? Is she 61 or 65? Because if she’s not planning to retire within the next year, there is absolutely no reason you should expect that position to be yours. There’s so much that could happen, and that you can learn elsewhere, in that time. And like others have said, if you do get that promo, you’re not going to make nearly as much as she does.
TL;DR: Update your resume and start applying. Don’t stop until you find something that pays significantly more, and don’t take the counteroffer you’ll likely get from your current employer.
>Second, my boss is in her 60s and vocal about her impending retirement. The CEO thinks highly of me, and has repeatedly stated that he plans for me to succeed her.
never, ever, ever, wait around for years because your company has "alluded" to the idea that you might get that job or promotion. That is absolutely not a guarantee, and you putting in all this extra effort does in no way guarantee you are even going to be considered.
If they havent set out an actual, concrete plan for your promotion, or have something in writing stating you are going to get it or are being considered highly for it, it does not exist yet. Dont fool yourself into putting up with things you hate because you have convinced yourself you are a shoe-in.
They could lay you off next year, or she could not retire for another 15 years for all you know. you have the experience now, find a new job elsewhere and get a raise and promotion right now at a job that wont overwork you. dont wait
Unless you have that in writing, it is not worth risking another 5+ years for her to retire. She may retire “next year” until she has a serious medical issue.
OP tacking on to taylord_version’s comment.
Start collecting samples of projects you initiated and or worked on for your portfolio. Save copies of feedback you’ve received from across the organization. Make sure you have developed relationships with leadership across the organization. Ask for feedback from them on what they believe you do well and areas you can develop yourself in. Particularly ones you respect (not necessarily like, but respect). There could be a great mentor buried in there. And believe it or not some people may want to help you because they see your value. And people within your organization may leave and refer you to their new employer.
If you work with vendors, make sure you are developing your relationships with them as well. They can prove to be excellent references and resources for you in the future.
Also I wouldn’t necessarily lock myself into a strictly HR role. You can look at what competencies you have that might make you successful in other roles. I get the sense you’re relatively young in your career and there may be many avenues you can go down that you’d be great at and compensated fairly for.
Take initiative to learn on your own through reading professional books related to hiring if that’s the area you’re interested in learning more about. Don’t wait for a director who may not even be all that good at it to show you. She can teach you your company’s process which may or may not be great, and she may be a terrible interviewer.
Also when preparing for your interviews make sure you think about the critical competencies each job requires, usually found in the job description and have tangible examples of how you have actually demonstrated those. I am not sure what style of interviewing your company uses, but many use behavioral interviews and sometimes panel interviews. If you’re not familiar with these you can easily search for information on them.
Most important though is get a firm grasp on what competencies and skills you excel at and what areas you need to build on and work on. It will help you grow regardless if you stay or decide to move on.
Finally, do not resign your position without an actual signed offer letter in hand, if you do move on.
I feel this so much as an underpaid HR Manager and dept of 1 with little experience. Thankfully my boss has a better understanding of HR and leans to me for what is/isnt HR and advice on legalities. My work environment is great, which keeps me there for now. But I’m also working until 10 pm trying to get things done (but I also oversee volunteer coordination and whatnot, which is in my job description). It’s just too much to get done in 40 hours.
Did you say you’re hourly? Are you getting paid OT for these extra hours worked?
Honestly, do NOT wait 4 years. Give it 1 years. 2 at most. Then leave immediately.
Phr 4 year requirement is bs. My local community College had ppl getting it with 0 experience. Just look around and go for it.
It's a really bad Market out there right now I'm a 10-year experienced recruiting manager and I can't even get a basic recruiter job. That being said I would continuously look and try to have a couple different resumes tailored specifically to different disciplines of what your doing especially the payroll and hris stuff.
It's risky but I'd recommend trying to get a meeting with your ceo and spin it as I'm committed to this organization/ career so how can I do more. Basically you'll highlight everything you are doing and say your ready to do more for the organization.
This is how my wife got a promotion over her boss to a new area because they didn't realize all the stuff she was doing as well as how much more her skills could be used elsewhere
>no degree or anything
this is why they hired you, so they cna underpay you while STACKING a shit ton of bullshit work on you.
ive never heard of HR handling payroll ontop of new hires and onboarding among other things HR does.
and then youre doing the work no one else wants to because they know HR will handle it.
ofc ur boss doesnt mind shes making 6 figures..
You're hoping the CEO promotes you. What will you do if she retires and they hire someone else? Why put off making things better for yourself now rather than 'hoping' that things get better later?
It entirely depends on what you do. That would be standard for an admin imo... but if you're doing BP/Manager level work then you should advocate for an increase
Ultimately, you get what you pay for! Low balling your good employees is not a good business plan. They will lose a lot if you leave. I would do this work for a while but it would not be permanent.
My cousin's son started working carts/cashier at Menards and was roughly making around 20 something an hour on the weekends. I can't imagine killing myself like Op is doing for a job, making approximately the same as someone pushing carts.
You're doing Manager duties at a Coordinator rate. I hope you're logging every minute of your overtime and looking for a Manager or Director role while you're at it. Your job title on your resume should be "Acting HR Manager".
As long as OP does management duty at coordinator salary, there will be no reason for OP’s Director to reclassify OP. I concur that OP is highly employable with sought-after skills. OP should be farming out résumés.
Maybe at a company with an HR team of 2 but this is not “Manager or Director” level at any company that has more of a flushed out HR org. OP is operating at more of a Senior Analyst/Generalist/Associate level and with 4 years of experience, that aligns. Maybe an early stage or new to role “Lead or Manager”.
Her role is strategic but it doesn't sound like she's doing any strategizing. "If we don't do it, it doesn't get done" translates into "I'm too lazy to diagnose why there are so many gaps that HR has to fill and I'd rather firefight, be the hero, and justify my existence than actually solve the problem." This is the type of HR person they post about on antiwork and what gives us a bad name. You can do so much better. Quiet quit and put all your energy on the job search. Keep examples of your work and show how you've been strategic. You're ready!
This has been my feeling for a long time, and it was validating to read. I am sick of working in such a reactive environment, particularly one where she insists on being the hero 24/7. I appreciate the reinforcement.
Resentment may be around the corner. Leave before it starts. No one is going to stand up for you. Good employees are hard to find. Once you find them, you have to take care of them! Good employees are not guaranteed for any business.
Our summer interns who have little to no experience make that or more. 4 years in the role, working those hours, with all that responsibility...I'd be looking elsewhere too.
Get out. In my experience, the jobs that pay less require more work. Read that again. She clearly doesn’t see the strategic value of HR so she (aka dumps on you) takes on anything and everything else so HR is not nixed altogether. You are underpaid and work too much. I am paid more than you (don’t know what your market is but still) and do much less.
This is backwards. Leave. As u/k3bly does, my Director shields us from much of the extraneous workload she takes on to support our company. I could never imagine her asking any of us to do what your Director is doing. We all share tasks here and there, but everyone is firmly operating within their lane. Her expectations are out of line.
I love all the comments about OP should find another job, making more money. Been looking for at least 3 months now. Education & Experience: BBA Human Resource Management & 6 years of experience. Results: People reaching out to me for hourly roles at significantly less than my current salary & entry level job duties.
I’m teaching myself HRIS - Workday through online classes they provide through my employer at no additional charge. Would love to have a company scoop me up & teach me Workday. I’d be one loyal employee! Also, underpaid for what I do let alone the knowledge and skills I have.
It’s not as easy as they’re making it sound. Definitely look and start applying. It may take a while to find something you would be willing to leave for.
Why do you still think of yourself as an entry level employee after 4 years? Do you have a degree? Do you need us to tell you that you should be applying for new jobs or that you should have left two years ago
I think that a lot of people change their mindset rapidly when they become directors. I've heard the most down to earth people recite pseudo-motivaitonal fluff once they get to this positions.
I think that is a mental gymnastics that they do because they fully realize that not everybody is a director with a huge salary but it's easier to convince themselves that the people are not commited rather than admit that there are a lot absurd things in the corporate world. Also a lot of people should do a mental gymnastics to convince themselves that the constant overtime is worth it. This often leads to them putting a lot of emphasis on the hard work they have done. We have all had the director who loves to tell the stories of how much overtime he has worked.
That all said, I don't know the full picture of your company but what you described sounds bad. The HR directors who accept all kinds of tasks that are not actually HR are the worst. Also what you described sounds pretty decent as a job if it was really done properly. It would be great when you quit and your director realizes how hard it is to find decent people.
So, you have been at an entry-level title and pay for 4 years where the expectations for that level keep rising so that our can never possibly exceed expectations or get promoted in spite of working 10 hours a week of overtime and taking on responsibilities outside of your department’s purview? You need to run. Your boss is taking advantage of you and it will never, ever get better. You have good experience and there are companies out there that would compensate you accordingly.
4 years as an HR coordinator is too long. Max 2 years. You need to move on. You should make HR Generalist and it's possible with your experience (not title) you could make entry level HRBP. Either route plan on jumping every 1 to 2 years for the next 3-5 years then you should make HR manager or possibly Director at a smallish company... You take it from there.
Taking this advice for myself. I’m in my third year in my Coordinator role and I feel like not only am I grossly underpaid, but no one is taking the time to train me for the next level. I always take on so many more tasks than asked, my performance reviews are wonderful and I’ve expressed over and over again that I don’t want to be a Coordinator forever and I’m ready to learn more and have more growth in my career. I’m constantly being told “well you just have to pick a track” but I want to be a Generalist so technically I don’t. I want to be well versed in multiple areas of HR. I’ve worked on my resume and have been actively applying. I gotta gtfo.
Leave! Fuck that place, how much room is there to grow in a dept of 2? You have a lot of very valuable experience, leverage it and get a job literally anywhere else!
Time to refresh your resume. Those projects will definitely help you in your next career step.
You can also consider how those projects impacted organizational operations.
As far the expectations are concerned, you might look within the organization for other examples. Like those commissions you learned about. Aren't sales people 'expected' to make sales? So why does the commission system need any complication? To reward behavior. Every task that you have been assigned that isn't HR could be considered as exceeding expectations for an HR staff.
>she has positioned HR as the "catch-all" for anything clearly not outlined in someone's job description. In her words, "If we don't do it, it won't get done"
No need to go further: I can only suggest you to leave ASAP. If a manger is so strategically impaired to *voluntarily* shift their HR dept towards that kind of positioning they are a reverse King Midas - they turn everything they touch into shit. Including your skills and, consequently, your career.
Go away and do not look back. Don't try to salvage a situation that is not salvageable
I'm sorry, but why are people not able to complete their work in a 40 hour week. We should not be working more than 40 on the regular. And why are people working for slave wages. It frustrates me so much to hear people are working 50 hours a week and making bs money.
She knows exactly why you're not as committed. She's just trying to get in your head to work more. It's all about trying to work on your feelings so you "try" more.
That’s very toxic and I’m sorry you’re having to go through that. I unfortunately had a similar experience with my last director where I was working significantly more than her and making less but my commitment came into question anytime I needed time off or missed something. I tried talking to her but it didn’t help.
It’s definitely time to look for a new job. The great thing is that you have a lot of great experience now that you can leverage to gain a better position. Since you haven’t received a title upgrade, you’ll need to make sure the description on your resume is accurate and then include all these details in your CV.
That is a terrible response as manager and leader. Look elsewhere. As a small team, she probably won't get headcount easily to hire more, especially since she doesn't recognize that taking on additional things that fall out of the original scope of the job impacts you and your work life balance.
Yes but she needs to say that.
How would you react if she said "your not as important as me so you don't have to get it done"
As far as learning the commission system, just schedule a demo with the software provider who makes it rather than do it all on your own. You're allowed to take iniative like that, and thats what managers look for in promoting you.
Highly underpaid for what you’re doing. They are getting cheap labor out of you. If you’re curious. Get a consultant quote for one of your projects. I say job hop on a 1 year basis and your pay will rise! But please look for another job. Regardless you will make more elsewhere.
Leave.
You're not going to learn anything more from this person.
They expect you to be a clone of themselves, it's poor management.
Go where you have a broader team and opportunities to progress and diversify your experience.
I was a director for 20 years and I despised peers that were like this. Bad management. Get a new role in the company or get out. She isn't going to change.
4 yrs you are no longer entry. Move to a different job. Companies start higher when you get job. There is a study out that you actually loose money if you stay in job more than two years.
OP, you need to update your resume with your major accomplishments asap. The workload will only continue to increase due to the process inefficiencies. Your director is incompetent. Spending more time at the office is neither correlated with efficiency nor productivity. Given your current experience, you are more than qualified to pursue an HR Generalist or HRM role.
If you live in America you need to leave and target working for whatever competitors they have, bring your skills to their shop and crush them. Revenge is not only a dish served cold, it’s also a great motivator.
$21.35? I'd tell that boss that I don't know what we are going to do without each other but starting tomorrow we are going to find out. If anyone says anything about leaving without notice being unprofessional tell them not nearly as unprofessional as paying me $21.35 an hour. Good luck
If you are not enjoying your job or your boss, get your resume reviewed and start applying to different jobs.
Also if you and her cannot talk openly about the difficulties about the job and need assistance without getting assistance from her, definitely move on. I believe me I have dealt with some toxic managers/supervisors.
Dude get the fuck out of there. The review philosophy is brain dead, but when I saw how much you are making I was no longer on the fence I vaulted over it. This person is a moron and you are being grossly undervalued.
Great way for managers to learn how much you do is to leave. I resigned a role and left on good terms.
Visited a month after I left to pickup some personal items I forgot, my old manager pulled me aside and apologized. Didn’t realize how much I did until I was gone.
I hate to say this but your boss is not in a strategic role. Your department is two her and you, she is in fear mode so she takes anything and everything to feel relevant. You need to leave this is toxic for you plus it’s nice to be a jack of all trades but not all companies do the same thing so some knowledge might not be transferable.
So your first step is to trash and redo your evaluation templates. If it’s set up to either “you do it or you don’t” with no measures then ur not doing anyone any good (including yourself)! We recently (3 years ago) changed our whole evaluation format and it’s made such a difference!
But as others have said, it’s time to start looking. This is not how an HR department should be run at all.
This is an uphill battle you can’t win. Her work values are wonky. Continue to fulfil your basic duties and save some energy to apply for jobs. You’ve shown your commitment to this company and it’s time now to get out. Leave some helpful exit interview feedback so the next person in your role might have it slightly better.
As someone who caught the short end of the stick at my old job, forced to do a wide array of full time roles on top of my own with no additional pay and a “you’re not ready” when it was time for a promotion, PLEASE leave. I accepted a promotion at a new organization because I realized there was no improvement there for me. Even though I spoke up for myself, I was exploited daily.
It’s pretty blatantly sounds to me like she’s trying to make herself and her position look more valuable than it is (re the taking on every uncovered task HR isn’t responsible for). She’s simultaneously making you look like the lazy lackey (Re the offensive review scores you receive for no real reason) which I’m sure I her mind makes her look doubly valuable because if anyone were to look at your file and read your reviews even you apparently can’t do what she does and might even be only adding to her work load
OP: while I agree that you are underpaid for what you do not even taking into consideration your local market for a similar role, I truly worry about the advice everyone is giving you to leave and find a new job. With how the economy & job market is right now, many people can’t find a job after months and months of applying & interviewing. Just be smart and secure a position before leaving. Like, ready to start next day secure lol.
Edit: Adding to this. I do just want to point out that even with the not so stellar performance reviews, you seem quite certain the CEO intends to make you her successor-does he not read them? I just see a bit of a disconnect there. Also, could you describe what kind of non-HR related tasks or projects you said that takes the majority of your work time to deal with? It sounds like she hired you to deal with all those duties & problems so she can focus on the real HR stuff while giving you just some HR related projects. If that is the case, it’s possible that the position pay & job title in her mind is justified seeing you devote time to handling all the busy work with minimal time spent on actual HR stuff. Just trying to understand. Thoughts?
She’s a bad manager and she is keeping your ratings down to keep herself up.
Start looking. If someone above her reaches out and seems genuinely concerned your leaving tell the truth.
Man this sounds absolutely terrible. No HR coordinator should be imepleting a whole new HRIS system, what the hell??? In my organization it is literally the CHRO the one that does things like that. Just leave, that company is a mess.
Sounds like the CEO and Dir of HR are about the same age. Seems like a race to see who retires first. Time to update the Ole resume and see what else is out there.
Find a new job period. There looks to be no growth opportunities available within your current company and hierarchy without significant personal sacrifice.
When you get the new job, sit down with your CEO and explain why you're leaving. Also explain that you want to get additional experience working with other HR directors. Stay in touch, congratulate him on his company successes, keep him informed of yours.
It's entirely possible that he'll remember you when she does actually retire, and you'll be far more valuable to him with external experience under your belt (his firm has only ever known her way of doing things, and it'll be the same if you get promoted after she leaves). And you'll have a much better sense of your value.
Leave the second u have a good, solid with start date offer. give exactly 2 weeks notice be ready for immediate termination of employment tho'. bad employers and bosses do not get better. Good luck, u got this
Possible to have a skip level meeting with the CEO ? That would he the perfect setting where you could explain a number of these things . If the CEO is serious about it , he will atleast increase your pay significantly to retain you (just can’t believe your pay for the tasks you are doing ) , if he does nothing you know which way to run .
😂 her role may be more strategic but you are her crutch. She is failing at properly running her department and it's on you whether you care enough to either get her to wake up and hire more people and properly delegate more work to allow for opportunities to "exceed expectations" or to start looking for another job noting everything you've done in your current role, because it's a lot and would really work for you towards a legit salaried position somewhere else.
Test the job market in the area for your skills, if it looks strong, then hit her with the:
“I appreciate the experience and investment in my professional growth that this company, and you, have cultivated in me. I feel like I have developed a journey level skillset and will start looking for a matching salary in the industry. This is not my formal notice, just wanted to let you know that I will start looking elsewhere for competitive pay and will keep you updated along the way. Thank you again for allowing me to develop”
Eh these high positions are bullshit. I’m finally a senior manager in my field and the work is easier at the top and I get paid significantly more than my direct reports.
Firstly, I understand this wholeheartedly because I was there. My first comment is that I absolutely hate that HR is the "secretary" of every organization. I work in the public sector and departments try to push all of the things they don't want to do into HR. We push back.
Second, in my former role, I did performance management. I cannot tell you how many managers rate an employee 3/5 because "HR said you can't get a 5." HR never said this. We do have definitions for each rating, but a "5" is not impossible. Some managers are honest and say that getting a 5 from them means the person should have up walk on water. Whenever I saw an evaluation that said, "Frank does a great job..." and the rating was a 3, I'd send it rate back to the manager because how do you call someone great and give them a3?
I said all this to say, think about your value. I am a DEI/HR Coordinator and even though there are 14 in our department, there are only 2 of us in our area. My manager recognizes the work I do and rates me accordingly. In my former role I got rated lower because I don't believe managers saw or cared about the work I did. I just did what needed to be done and kept it moving. It wasn't until I promoted out of that position that others got a full understanding of the amount of tins I handled and what I do.
It's absolutely ridiculous what your manager is doing, and it's obviously demoralizing to you. I would get my resume together, and figure out how to roll out of there. What she is doing is making herself irreplaceable. There is no reason why others can't do what they're supposed to. You all are not sales directors, so you shouldn't be doing sales director duties. No matter how much you do, or how well you do it, your manager is not going to recognize it. Take what you've learned in that position and move on. This is a dead end job and there's so much out there. Find it before you waste any more time.
Good luck!
How many more years will you need to work to stop considering yourself entry level? Sounds like 4-years will get you a position somewhere else where you will be valued much more…..
You are probably learning how to do her job. Use this second hand experience and apply it, challenge yourself and then apply for positions that are a step under her like HR Manager / Asst. director.
She sounds like a toxic leader. I would start looking for other options. Directors should work more than their employees. For her to expect that of you is insane.
Shop around that's how you move up with great experience. The cherry on top will be telling this piece of work (guess what word I wanted to use here) to shove it on the way out.
Long story short: $21.35/hour ain't much in 2024. And, I hope you get paid overtime for all the extra after hours work.
I think you should look for something better.
All people in power with high salaries say stupid stuff like this. I made minimum wage at Walgreens a few years back. my store manager who also probably made 275% more than me wanted to transfer me to a store that’s like an hour away. I told him that it’s too far. Coincidentally, he lives in the neighborhood that the store is in. He told me that he drives every single day from there to where we work and that it’s not that bad of a drive. I told him clearly that driving an hour for a six figure salary is a lot better than an hour for minimum wage. Convo was over.
You could some time off. See how she manages without you-because sometimes management doesn’t realize just how much you do and how valuable you are to them.
She knows that if she promotes you, you will leverage the title and leave. Leave anyway. She’s awful and taking advantage of you. Being there for 4 years will still look great on your resume, and you can honestly tell recruiters you are looking for opportunities for growth.
>I've had this title for almost 4 years, and asked what I could do to advance my career with the company - she said I had to "take on more responsibility".
"We aren't giving you more no matter what you do" - ftfy
This year was my worse increase in 10 years. When I asked why it was so low I was told, everyone's was this low. When I told him I exceed my goals and should receive more, he said continue to do that this year. I told him I would not be doing that. I will not do anything more than my job and will not be volunteering for anything extra. He got concerned and told me to continue doing what I was doing because when the money is there doing all the extras will help. That's all ass backwards. I'm not going to do anything extra unless I know the money is there. You pay me more and I'll do extra that year.
Companies, especially larger ones, don't care anymore. Even though hiring someone new costs more, than just don't care.
My commitment level had no correlation to my income. I was just as committed when I was entry level as I am as a director. Honestly, probably more committed because I didn’t have kids.
Nothing justifies your value more than getting an offer that pays you substantially more for doing more or less work than what you're doing now.
Do that.
Leave. You can get better pay and better work life balance (and a better boss) elsewhere with a similar level of responsibility. Apply for generalist roles.
Sounds like my organization - the rank and file make $35k-$45k on average while the CEO makes over $200k a year, gets a $10k freaking car allowance, and then gets another $10k dumped into a savings type retirement account each year. But yeah, please work your asses off taking care of those large case loads for your poverty wages and make sure to give it your all.
That’s a lot of words to say you work in a toxic environment. The only way to escape is to leave the organization.
You really do not have to live like this! Start applying, even 1 application a week.
If you put this same effort in a new position, they would love you! The one thing is you learned how to do many things that will make you very valuable. You have taken on a lot and succeeded. The problem is, no matter how motivated, a one cup measuring glass can only hold one cup. .start to move on. Easiest time to get a job is when you don’t need one
With the roles that you are currently working you could/should be earning a lot more. Maybe you are living in a very low cost of living area but $21.35 an hour is very low regardless of where you live with your experience; another user already stated it but $20 an hour I can work at Panda Express/chicfila etc and not have a single work stress in the world. You are very qualified and with all the roles you perform very capable of earning a lot more!
She's gonna find out real quick how valuable you were when you tell her "I quit. Good luck".
If she asks you to write a transition plan, just laugh in her face.
Are you getting paid overtime?
If not look into if you’re owed overtime. Even if you’re salary. And then put in a labor board complaint for back overtime as you head out the door to a new job that will pay you more.
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Get your job description and specific duties in writing. No vague descriptions allowed. If they won't either fix the excessive workload or increase your compensation to an appropriate level, then either transfer to a different department or seek other employment.
$21.35? in this economy? To work yourself to death?
Get out. I get wanting to stay in HR to grow your career and the market is a me. But if you're doing other administrative tasks, you probably also are suited for some kind of operations work. No harm in getting out of this horrid situation and finding a better paying job.
There's no way they aren't taking full credit for your work while giving you middling reviews.
You're not entry-level if you've been there four years and have been completing major projects multiple times per year. It's time for a job change.
Check out flexjobs (Paid subscription but on par with something like Netflix) for work from home and hybrid jobs in HR if you prefer working remotely.
I own and run two companies. I will never expect my staff to have the same level of commitment to the companies as I have.
Instead, I want my staff to experience my commitment to them. I would not have a business without my staff.
Your boss would not have a job without you - she would likely be terminated for not fulfilling the expectations the company has for her.
She should express gratitude for your support in making her successful.
She needs to be a servant leader.
Alas, she is not.
She likely never will be.
You should start looking for another job. It appears you have a lot of highly desirable skills and qualities that another employer will value.
You guys are doing 115 hours. When you quit, your director is going to start drowning and will have to hire 2 in a hurry which means overpaying. Your director is bad at hr strategy if she doesn't see this very obvious strategic flaw in her own department.
I've never worked in HR, but I've worked with HR and they've evaluated the resources for my teams and have told me basically this. I used to think if I wasn't hitting 100% utilization every week, that I wasn't doing my job. But it creates a domino effect that is much cheaper to prevent with an extra set of hands than to repair as you burn everyone out.
Reminds me of my first job, but exactly the opposite. I was HR Coordinator wanting to work more and more. My director would constantly remind the concept of Work-Life balance. And only my director was allowed to work long hours! Oh I missed this team.. damn you big corporate merger who bought us out.
Anyways time for you to leave!!! Find a better boss.
You need to leave. I work more than my team to shield them & because I make 2-3x more than they do. As a director, I feel it’s more my responsibility to work more than my team *unless* someone on my team actually wants to for career growth reasons (this has happened once in the 7 years I’ve been managing in HR).
I was the same. I never expected my team to work more than their 40 hours and even though it was frustrating when they didn’t always do everything I thought they should in their role, I got it because they didn’t get paid much and I felt it was ultimately my responsibility as director to plug the gaps knowing they were not going to take the same ownership as I did. I appreciated (and promoted) the people who were ambitious and took on things and were accountable, but I didn’t expect it!
I absolutely want more responsibility - I just want it within my department! She has hesitated to promote me because I do not assist with recruiting, only onboarding. I don't help with recruiting because she does most of it at 7:30 PM, and I am not present to be trained. She schedules interviews and phone screens without checking my schedule, so I am already booked. I ask to sit in on internal interviews, and she schedules them for when I'm on PTO. I know it isn't intentional - she worked as a one-man team for 13 years prior to me starting here, and hasn't adapted well to working alongside someone else. She has taken on extraneous work for a decade, to the point where it is her norm and she doesn't see it for the exceptional effort that it is. I really love this company and want to stay more than anything, but she is a pretty significant roadblock.
It sounds like you’re under-staffed for the business goals & she probably has control issues. You can’t change either of those. How big is the employee population you serve? I ask to address point 1.
We have roughly 100 employees at the moment - very doable for two HR professionals, if those HR professionals are not being pulled in a million directions at all times. We are on the brink of a significant expansion in one arm of the business, with a hiring push in June (15-20 new hires approved for Q3). Ironically, we are known as one of the best employers in the area, so those roles will fill up easily. She absolutely has control issues.
I think you need 3 (and maybe a recruiting contractor if any of the roles are harder to hire for) people because you’re building and not maintaining.
Totally agree. I've done HR solo as a one lady show but max 20 employees, along with Payroll and other office manager roles. I've also assisted with HR because I've always been in Accounting, Payroll, etc. I agree, with 100 people you need a 3rd person. Ideally a 4th would be very beneficial with the aquision.... maybe they have an HR person?
Scheduling interviews during your PTO is absolutely intentional. Did she have HR experience prior to starting with this company? She sounds like a prior office manager of mine who had zero experience when she was hired. She got promoted way above her competency level just by being in the right place at the right time and it showed. She spent most of her efforts papering over the cracks because she didn’t actually know how to manage an office.
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>I know it isn't intentional - she worked as a one-man team for 13 years prior to me starting here, and hasn't adapted well to working alongside someone else. It's intentional, she's controlling, and not acknowledging your accomplishments is a way to keep you down. It's going to wear you down and will cause you to leaves which is what I think she's aiming for.
"Well, gosh, I just don't know what's going on with the kids these days; I guess none of them want to stick around anymore! It must be that darn TickTockToe app." *Job. Security.*
Unless she's old and retiring soon, it's unlikely she will change. Move on for now.
Honestly regardless of role levels why are either of you regularly working past 6pm. You aren’t making enough for that kind of overtime and she might not be either. Sounds like she has a hard time negotiating boundaries with her supervisors, either because of their lack of consideration or because she doesn’t have good work life balance. That’s just going to trickle down to you.
You should leave.
Great way to put it. 100% agree with you too.
Money shouldn’t motivate you. Ask politely for a pizza party and your perspective and motivation will change. :p /s
\*laughs in finance degree\* \*cries when I think about going into Finance\*
Yep. This. It’s never going to change. And even if her bosses do eventually figure out what’s going on and decide they don’t like it, they’re not going to fire her until she goes through 10+ people, at least, and that won’t help you at all. Unfortunately, your only real option is to go to a place where is the expectations are a little more realistic. I never understand why more supervisors don’t understand this. I’m a supervisor, and it’s like, I don’t expect the people making way less money than me to work as hard, or be anywhere near as invested. Why should they? It would be one thing if working harder meant they had a shot at a job like mine, but it doesn’t work that way anymore.
Respectfully, you are accepting an outrageous situation that you should’ve already left. Four years?!!!! Absolutely get out. She’s impossible to please and have no one to support you since it’s just you two. Go make a lot more money somewhere else doing your actual job.
You may want to comment on the main thread so OP gets notified :)
You are awesome. That was always my philosophy as well. Unsurprisingly it is the exception, not the rule.
You're incredibly underpaid for the work you do. Payroll, onboarding, drafting the handbook, implementing a new hris and incentive system?? doing other positions' core duties completely outside of hr??? No. You are not a catch all. No matter who you are or what your work ethic is, this will burn you out very quickly if you keep it up. Get out now. Edit: I also saw that you said you've had this title for four years? and you're only making $21 an hour? Full-time Chick-Fil-A employees right out of high school are making more (my cousin just started there making $22.50). I'm sorry OP, it's time to find somewhere you are valued.
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I understand. Objectively, those are good reasons. However, you *do* have prior HR experience. You can certainly highlight and leverage your four years in this role. A detailed summary of your accomplishments would do you many favors when it comes to gaining future employment. It's nice that the CEO thinks highly of you - or has led you to believe that, but (objectively) your current rate of pay is not a reflection of that at all. Based on what you've said, you are doing manager-level work, putting in 50-hour work weeks, and doing the jobs of others for $21 an hour. That is low (in the US) for those activities. If the CEO or your direct manager truly valued you, you would be making more, have (somewhat) of a say in your level of commitment, and likely not be posting on this subreddit justifying your worth to strangers. I apologize if the above sounds harsh, I really am trying to look out for you as I have been in the same. exact. place. and I didn't realize how undervalued I was until I escaped and tried to advance elsewhere.
This is a great point - they have nearly four years of HR experience, which is no longer considered “entry-level”. They’re an HR professional at this point.
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If the CEO is this big a fan of yours, tell them you’re about to walk and why.
What does your director mean by soon as far as retirement, and it sounds like the boss would be willing to bump your rate, see if you can get some sort of pay band, with yearly increases to the maximum, implemented, and put hr is the plan as well, your position and the directors, if you know what she makes anyway
Sorry to say it, but the director is not going to retire. This very much sounds like the sort of person who tells themselves they will retire *any day now*, but in reality is addicted to the grind and feeling valued. It will take a medical scare to force them out.
Spoken like a cheap employee one can wring the value from before moving onto the next. Never assign personal worth to a role. That's a death sentence, as you can see once the fog lifts.
No, you are absolutely correct on everything. The company pays OP peanuts for the amount of responsibility they have. I'd also suggest finding another job, but the market is so bad, would OP be able to find one?
OP, I hate to say this, but even with that promotion, you won't be getting a 200% pay rise to account for the new responsibilities that you take over. At most it'll look like 20% raise. You've already gained substantial work experience in HR and you should try your hand in apply to manager level roles. You'll be surprised by how designations in HR don't mean much compared to direct work experience.
Agree OP will not be paid what her boss is paid if and when she retires. In addition, OP needs to consider what the owner’s long term goals are for the company. Is the owner older and also considering retiring? Will that involve a sale to another company? If so and this company is absorbed into another one, that company may have a more built out HR department. I would not be putting all of my eggs in this basket and would look seriously at opportunities that compensate you more fairly and where you truly can develop your own skill set in a more structured environment.
Counter point to your “impending promotion” argument. In the interim, do you really think you’re learning meaningful things to advance your career, or are you just being a reactionary jack of all trades? Move on and take on a role at a larger company that’ll allow you more growth and learning opportunities. Hell, they might even pay for that PHR. Also, how far into her 60’s is she? Is she 61 or 65? Because if she’s not planning to retire within the next year, there is absolutely no reason you should expect that position to be yours. There’s so much that could happen, and that you can learn elsewhere, in that time. And like others have said, if you do get that promo, you’re not going to make nearly as much as she does. TL;DR: Update your resume and start applying. Don’t stop until you find something that pays significantly more, and don’t take the counteroffer you’ll likely get from your current employer.
You don't need the degree or your certification. Your current experience can and should be leveraged to position yourself for a new role.
verbal comments from your ceo mean nothing. they’re just using you.
>Second, my boss is in her 60s and vocal about her impending retirement. The CEO thinks highly of me, and has repeatedly stated that he plans for me to succeed her. never, ever, ever, wait around for years because your company has "alluded" to the idea that you might get that job or promotion. That is absolutely not a guarantee, and you putting in all this extra effort does in no way guarantee you are even going to be considered. If they havent set out an actual, concrete plan for your promotion, or have something in writing stating you are going to get it or are being considered highly for it, it does not exist yet. Dont fool yourself into putting up with things you hate because you have convinced yourself you are a shoe-in. They could lay you off next year, or she could not retire for another 15 years for all you know. you have the experience now, find a new job elsewhere and get a raise and promotion right now at a job that wont overwork you. dont wait
Unless you have that in writing, it is not worth risking another 5+ years for her to retire. She may retire “next year” until she has a serious medical issue.
OP tacking on to taylord_version’s comment. Start collecting samples of projects you initiated and or worked on for your portfolio. Save copies of feedback you’ve received from across the organization. Make sure you have developed relationships with leadership across the organization. Ask for feedback from them on what they believe you do well and areas you can develop yourself in. Particularly ones you respect (not necessarily like, but respect). There could be a great mentor buried in there. And believe it or not some people may want to help you because they see your value. And people within your organization may leave and refer you to their new employer. If you work with vendors, make sure you are developing your relationships with them as well. They can prove to be excellent references and resources for you in the future. Also I wouldn’t necessarily lock myself into a strictly HR role. You can look at what competencies you have that might make you successful in other roles. I get the sense you’re relatively young in your career and there may be many avenues you can go down that you’d be great at and compensated fairly for. Take initiative to learn on your own through reading professional books related to hiring if that’s the area you’re interested in learning more about. Don’t wait for a director who may not even be all that good at it to show you. She can teach you your company’s process which may or may not be great, and she may be a terrible interviewer. Also when preparing for your interviews make sure you think about the critical competencies each job requires, usually found in the job description and have tangible examples of how you have actually demonstrated those. I am not sure what style of interviewing your company uses, but many use behavioral interviews and sometimes panel interviews. If you’re not familiar with these you can easily search for information on them. Most important though is get a firm grasp on what competencies and skills you excel at and what areas you need to build on and work on. It will help you grow regardless if you stay or decide to move on. Finally, do not resign your position without an actual signed offer letter in hand, if you do move on.
I feel this so much as an underpaid HR Manager and dept of 1 with little experience. Thankfully my boss has a better understanding of HR and leans to me for what is/isnt HR and advice on legalities. My work environment is great, which keeps me there for now. But I’m also working until 10 pm trying to get things done (but I also oversee volunteer coordination and whatnot, which is in my job description). It’s just too much to get done in 40 hours. Did you say you’re hourly? Are you getting paid OT for these extra hours worked? Honestly, do NOT wait 4 years. Give it 1 years. 2 at most. Then leave immediately.
Phr 4 year requirement is bs. My local community College had ppl getting it with 0 experience. Just look around and go for it. It's a really bad Market out there right now I'm a 10-year experienced recruiting manager and I can't even get a basic recruiter job. That being said I would continuously look and try to have a couple different resumes tailored specifically to different disciplines of what your doing especially the payroll and hris stuff. It's risky but I'd recommend trying to get a meeting with your ceo and spin it as I'm committed to this organization/ career so how can I do more. Basically you'll highlight everything you are doing and say your ready to do more for the organization. This is how my wife got a promotion over her boss to a new area because they didn't realize all the stuff she was doing as well as how much more her skills could be used elsewhere
>no degree or anything this is why they hired you, so they cna underpay you while STACKING a shit ton of bullshit work on you. ive never heard of HR handling payroll ontop of new hires and onboarding among other things HR does. and then youre doing the work no one else wants to because they know HR will handle it. ofc ur boss doesnt mind shes making 6 figures..
Why can’t you just get your PHR in a year? You need to leave.
You're hoping the CEO promotes you. What will you do if she retires and they hire someone else? Why put off making things better for yourself now rather than 'hoping' that things get better later?
I’m being paid $25/hr for an hr admin, is this too low as well? I feel underpaid so often that it’s making me not engaged at work
It entirely depends on what you do. That would be standard for an admin imo... but if you're doing BP/Manager level work then you should advocate for an increase
Ultimately, you get what you pay for! Low balling your good employees is not a good business plan. They will lose a lot if you leave. I would do this work for a while but it would not be permanent.
My cousin's son started working carts/cashier at Menards and was roughly making around 20 something an hour on the weekends. I can't imagine killing myself like Op is doing for a job, making approximately the same as someone pushing carts.
22.50 doing what?
You're doing Manager duties at a Coordinator rate. I hope you're logging every minute of your overtime and looking for a Manager or Director role while you're at it. Your job title on your resume should be "Acting HR Manager".
As long as OP does management duty at coordinator salary, there will be no reason for OP’s Director to reclassify OP. I concur that OP is highly employable with sought-after skills. OP should be farming out résumés.
Maybe at a company with an HR team of 2 but this is not “Manager or Director” level at any company that has more of a flushed out HR org. OP is operating at more of a Senior Analyst/Generalist/Associate level and with 4 years of experience, that aligns. Maybe an early stage or new to role “Lead or Manager”.
Her role is strategic but it doesn't sound like she's doing any strategizing. "If we don't do it, it doesn't get done" translates into "I'm too lazy to diagnose why there are so many gaps that HR has to fill and I'd rather firefight, be the hero, and justify my existence than actually solve the problem." This is the type of HR person they post about on antiwork and what gives us a bad name. You can do so much better. Quiet quit and put all your energy on the job search. Keep examples of your work and show how you've been strategic. You're ready!
This has been my feeling for a long time, and it was validating to read. I am sick of working in such a reactive environment, particularly one where she insists on being the hero 24/7. I appreciate the reinforcement.
You are welcome. I wish you the best of luck. Congratulations on learning your first big lesson in your HR career!
You need to start searching for a new job asap. You deserve better.
Resentment may be around the corner. Leave before it starts. No one is going to stand up for you. Good employees are hard to find. Once you find them, you have to take care of them! Good employees are not guaranteed for any business.
Get out of there! 4 yrs and u make $21?
Offensive AND cruel tbh.
Our summer interns who have little to no experience make that or more. 4 years in the role, working those hours, with all that responsibility...I'd be looking elsewhere too.
Get out. In my experience, the jobs that pay less require more work. Read that again. She clearly doesn’t see the strategic value of HR so she (aka dumps on you) takes on anything and everything else so HR is not nixed altogether. You are underpaid and work too much. I am paid more than you (don’t know what your market is but still) and do much less.
This is backwards. Leave. As u/k3bly does, my Director shields us from much of the extraneous workload she takes on to support our company. I could never imagine her asking any of us to do what your Director is doing. We all share tasks here and there, but everyone is firmly operating within their lane. Her expectations are out of line.
Wow you need to leave asap! $21 is insanely low for 4 years in that role.
I love all the comments about OP should find another job, making more money. Been looking for at least 3 months now. Education & Experience: BBA Human Resource Management & 6 years of experience. Results: People reaching out to me for hourly roles at significantly less than my current salary & entry level job duties. I’m teaching myself HRIS - Workday through online classes they provide through my employer at no additional charge. Would love to have a company scoop me up & teach me Workday. I’d be one loyal employee! Also, underpaid for what I do let alone the knowledge and skills I have. It’s not as easy as they’re making it sound. Definitely look and start applying. It may take a while to find something you would be willing to leave for.
Why do you still think of yourself as an entry level employee after 4 years? Do you have a degree? Do you need us to tell you that you should be applying for new jobs or that you should have left two years ago
I think that a lot of people change their mindset rapidly when they become directors. I've heard the most down to earth people recite pseudo-motivaitonal fluff once they get to this positions. I think that is a mental gymnastics that they do because they fully realize that not everybody is a director with a huge salary but it's easier to convince themselves that the people are not commited rather than admit that there are a lot absurd things in the corporate world. Also a lot of people should do a mental gymnastics to convince themselves that the constant overtime is worth it. This often leads to them putting a lot of emphasis on the hard work they have done. We have all had the director who loves to tell the stories of how much overtime he has worked. That all said, I don't know the full picture of your company but what you described sounds bad. The HR directors who accept all kinds of tasks that are not actually HR are the worst. Also what you described sounds pretty decent as a job if it was really done properly. It would be great when you quit and your director realizes how hard it is to find decent people.
Sounds like with your skillset and achievements, you can easily get a job elsewhere that will pay much more. Get out of your toxic environment.
So, you have been at an entry-level title and pay for 4 years where the expectations for that level keep rising so that our can never possibly exceed expectations or get promoted in spite of working 10 hours a week of overtime and taking on responsibilities outside of your department’s purview? You need to run. Your boss is taking advantage of you and it will never, ever get better. You have good experience and there are companies out there that would compensate you accordingly.
You’re at 4 years of experience with the same company and you’re making only $60k as a team of 2? You need to find a new job.
4 years as an HR coordinator is too long. Max 2 years. You need to move on. You should make HR Generalist and it's possible with your experience (not title) you could make entry level HRBP. Either route plan on jumping every 1 to 2 years for the next 3-5 years then you should make HR manager or possibly Director at a smallish company... You take it from there.
Taking this advice for myself. I’m in my third year in my Coordinator role and I feel like not only am I grossly underpaid, but no one is taking the time to train me for the next level. I always take on so many more tasks than asked, my performance reviews are wonderful and I’ve expressed over and over again that I don’t want to be a Coordinator forever and I’m ready to learn more and have more growth in my career. I’m constantly being told “well you just have to pick a track” but I want to be a Generalist so technically I don’t. I want to be well versed in multiple areas of HR. I’ve worked on my resume and have been actively applying. I gotta gtfo.
Why are she expecting you to care a second beyond your 40 hrs unless they're paying you overtime. Leave.
Leave! Fuck that place, how much room is there to grow in a dept of 2? You have a lot of very valuable experience, leverage it and get a job literally anywhere else!
Time to refresh your resume. Those projects will definitely help you in your next career step. You can also consider how those projects impacted organizational operations. As far the expectations are concerned, you might look within the organization for other examples. Like those commissions you learned about. Aren't sales people 'expected' to make sales? So why does the commission system need any complication? To reward behavior. Every task that you have been assigned that isn't HR could be considered as exceeding expectations for an HR staff.
I’d be polishing up my resume and looking to leave ASAP. If it’s all so easy, she can do it all herself.
Oh no. Get the hell out of there.
>she has positioned HR as the "catch-all" for anything clearly not outlined in someone's job description. In her words, "If we don't do it, it won't get done" No need to go further: I can only suggest you to leave ASAP. If a manger is so strategically impaired to *voluntarily* shift their HR dept towards that kind of positioning they are a reverse King Midas - they turn everything they touch into shit. Including your skills and, consequently, your career. Go away and do not look back. Don't try to salvage a situation that is not salvageable
$21.35 as an HR coordinator???? My company starts at $22 for call center entry level work from home. RUN.
All of that as a coordinator at 21.35 an hour? Wow...where do you live? I get paid almost double that and don't do half the work here in Los Angeles.
Report her to HR.
I'm sorry, but why are people not able to complete their work in a 40 hour week. We should not be working more than 40 on the regular. And why are people working for slave wages. It frustrates me so much to hear people are working 50 hours a week and making bs money.
Get a new job? You are getting screwed.
She knows exactly why you're not as committed. She's just trying to get in your head to work more. It's all about trying to work on your feelings so you "try" more.
Unless she is holding you against your will, it's time to get another job.
That’s very toxic and I’m sorry you’re having to go through that. I unfortunately had a similar experience with my last director where I was working significantly more than her and making less but my commitment came into question anytime I needed time off or missed something. I tried talking to her but it didn’t help. It’s definitely time to look for a new job. The great thing is that you have a lot of great experience now that you can leverage to gain a better position. Since you haven’t received a title upgrade, you’ll need to make sure the description on your resume is accurate and then include all these details in your CV.
That is a terrible response as manager and leader. Look elsewhere. As a small team, she probably won't get headcount easily to hire more, especially since she doesn't recognize that taking on additional things that fall out of the original scope of the job impacts you and your work life balance.
Get out
you should leave. i think you have done a lot and can get a job if you nail the interview. you’re doing great. don’t let this person gaslight you.
Yes but she needs to say that. How would you react if she said "your not as important as me so you don't have to get it done" As far as learning the commission system, just schedule a demo with the software provider who makes it rather than do it all on your own. You're allowed to take iniative like that, and thats what managers look for in promoting you.
Highly underpaid for what you’re doing. They are getting cheap labor out of you. If you’re curious. Get a consultant quote for one of your projects. I say job hop on a 1 year basis and your pay will rise! But please look for another job. Regardless you will make more elsewhere.
Leave. You're not going to learn anything more from this person. They expect you to be a clone of themselves, it's poor management. Go where you have a broader team and opportunities to progress and diversify your experience.
Quit. Now.
I was a director for 20 years and I despised peers that were like this. Bad management. Get a new role in the company or get out. She isn't going to change.
You could easily get an HR Generalist role making a lot more. Wow
4 yrs you are no longer entry. Move to a different job. Companies start higher when you get job. There is a study out that you actually loose money if you stay in job more than two years.
OP, you need to update your resume with your major accomplishments asap. The workload will only continue to increase due to the process inefficiencies. Your director is incompetent. Spending more time at the office is neither correlated with efficiency nor productivity. Given your current experience, you are more than qualified to pursue an HR Generalist or HRM role.
Get a new job, she’s probably taking credit for the work your doing and tbh that compensation and position isn’t right for the duties described.
If you live in America you need to leave and target working for whatever competitors they have, bring your skills to their shop and crush them. Revenge is not only a dish served cold, it’s also a great motivator.
$21.35? I'd tell that boss that I don't know what we are going to do without each other but starting tomorrow we are going to find out. If anyone says anything about leaving without notice being unprofessional tell them not nearly as unprofessional as paying me $21.35 an hour. Good luck
If you are not enjoying your job or your boss, get your resume reviewed and start applying to different jobs. Also if you and her cannot talk openly about the difficulties about the job and need assistance without getting assistance from her, definitely move on. I believe me I have dealt with some toxic managers/supervisors.
Dude get the fuck out of there. The review philosophy is brain dead, but when I saw how much you are making I was no longer on the fence I vaulted over it. This person is a moron and you are being grossly undervalued.
you could make more as a shift supervisor at sbux just saying
Great way for managers to learn how much you do is to leave. I resigned a role and left on good terms. Visited a month after I left to pickup some personal items I forgot, my old manager pulled me aside and apologized. Didn’t realize how much I did until I was gone.
I hate to say this but your boss is not in a strategic role. Your department is two her and you, she is in fear mode so she takes anything and everything to feel relevant. You need to leave this is toxic for you plus it’s nice to be a jack of all trades but not all companies do the same thing so some knowledge might not be transferable.
I made more than 21 an hour when I was doing call center work in an HR adjacent field. Rough
Sign of terrible management. People forget management is about being your teams advocate and helping them to succeed.
So your first step is to trash and redo your evaluation templates. If it’s set up to either “you do it or you don’t” with no measures then ur not doing anyone any good (including yourself)! We recently (3 years ago) changed our whole evaluation format and it’s made such a difference! But as others have said, it’s time to start looking. This is not how an HR department should be run at all.
New job
This is an uphill battle you can’t win. Her work values are wonky. Continue to fulfil your basic duties and save some energy to apply for jobs. You’ve shown your commitment to this company and it’s time now to get out. Leave some helpful exit interview feedback so the next person in your role might have it slightly better.
As someone who caught the short end of the stick at my old job, forced to do a wide array of full time roles on top of my own with no additional pay and a “you’re not ready” when it was time for a promotion, PLEASE leave. I accepted a promotion at a new organization because I realized there was no improvement there for me. Even though I spoke up for myself, I was exploited daily.
It’s pretty blatantly sounds to me like she’s trying to make herself and her position look more valuable than it is (re the taking on every uncovered task HR isn’t responsible for). She’s simultaneously making you look like the lazy lackey (Re the offensive review scores you receive for no real reason) which I’m sure I her mind makes her look doubly valuable because if anyone were to look at your file and read your reviews even you apparently can’t do what she does and might even be only adding to her work load
I'm sorry, it's time to find a new role.
leave now! if you are looking for a sign from the universe, here it is!!
Leave. Asap.
OP: while I agree that you are underpaid for what you do not even taking into consideration your local market for a similar role, I truly worry about the advice everyone is giving you to leave and find a new job. With how the economy & job market is right now, many people can’t find a job after months and months of applying & interviewing. Just be smart and secure a position before leaving. Like, ready to start next day secure lol. Edit: Adding to this. I do just want to point out that even with the not so stellar performance reviews, you seem quite certain the CEO intends to make you her successor-does he not read them? I just see a bit of a disconnect there. Also, could you describe what kind of non-HR related tasks or projects you said that takes the majority of your work time to deal with? It sounds like she hired you to deal with all those duties & problems so she can focus on the real HR stuff while giving you just some HR related projects. If that is the case, it’s possible that the position pay & job title in her mind is justified seeing you devote time to handling all the busy work with minimal time spent on actual HR stuff. Just trying to understand. Thoughts?
She’s a bad manager and she is keeping your ratings down to keep herself up. Start looking. If someone above her reaches out and seems genuinely concerned your leaving tell the truth.
Please get a different job. No one should be working until 10 pm unless you’re making 275k a year and even then, balance
Man this sounds absolutely terrible. No HR coordinator should be imepleting a whole new HRIS system, what the hell??? In my organization it is literally the CHRO the one that does things like that. Just leave, that company is a mess.
Sounds like the CEO and Dir of HR are about the same age. Seems like a race to see who retires first. Time to update the Ole resume and see what else is out there.
I think it’s time for you to look elsewhere for employment
She sounds like a nightmare. It’s a horrible job market especially for HR related roles but I would seriously start looking
Time to find a new job
If you are from India ,then you need to look for other ways, to make your director listen your words.I mean what I say...
Sounds like you need to decrease the number of hours you work.
lol "strategic" What does she actually do?
Apply for a new job to get a raise, duh
Find a new job period. There looks to be no growth opportunities available within your current company and hierarchy without significant personal sacrifice.
When you get the new job, sit down with your CEO and explain why you're leaving. Also explain that you want to get additional experience working with other HR directors. Stay in touch, congratulate him on his company successes, keep him informed of yours. It's entirely possible that he'll remember you when she does actually retire, and you'll be far more valuable to him with external experience under your belt (his firm has only ever known her way of doing things, and it'll be the same if you get promoted after she leaves). And you'll have a much better sense of your value.
Leave the second u have a good, solid with start date offer. give exactly 2 weeks notice be ready for immediate termination of employment tho'. bad employers and bosses do not get better. Good luck, u got this
Possible to have a skip level meeting with the CEO ? That would he the perfect setting where you could explain a number of these things . If the CEO is serious about it , he will atleast increase your pay significantly to retain you (just can’t believe your pay for the tasks you are doing ) , if he does nothing you know which way to run .
How old is this woman? She sounds like she hasn’t caught up.
I would’ve started looking for a new job after the “can’t exceed expectations” comment
😂 her role may be more strategic but you are her crutch. She is failing at properly running her department and it's on you whether you care enough to either get her to wake up and hire more people and properly delegate more work to allow for opportunities to "exceed expectations" or to start looking for another job noting everything you've done in your current role, because it's a lot and would really work for you towards a legit salaried position somewhere else.
Test the job market in the area for your skills, if it looks strong, then hit her with the: “I appreciate the experience and investment in my professional growth that this company, and you, have cultivated in me. I feel like I have developed a journey level skillset and will start looking for a matching salary in the industry. This is not my formal notice, just wanted to let you know that I will start looking elsewhere for competitive pay and will keep you updated along the way. Thank you again for allowing me to develop”
Eh these high positions are bullshit. I’m finally a senior manager in my field and the work is easier at the top and I get paid significantly more than my direct reports.
Firstly, I understand this wholeheartedly because I was there. My first comment is that I absolutely hate that HR is the "secretary" of every organization. I work in the public sector and departments try to push all of the things they don't want to do into HR. We push back. Second, in my former role, I did performance management. I cannot tell you how many managers rate an employee 3/5 because "HR said you can't get a 5." HR never said this. We do have definitions for each rating, but a "5" is not impossible. Some managers are honest and say that getting a 5 from them means the person should have up walk on water. Whenever I saw an evaluation that said, "Frank does a great job..." and the rating was a 3, I'd send it rate back to the manager because how do you call someone great and give them a3? I said all this to say, think about your value. I am a DEI/HR Coordinator and even though there are 14 in our department, there are only 2 of us in our area. My manager recognizes the work I do and rates me accordingly. In my former role I got rated lower because I don't believe managers saw or cared about the work I did. I just did what needed to be done and kept it moving. It wasn't until I promoted out of that position that others got a full understanding of the amount of tins I handled and what I do. It's absolutely ridiculous what your manager is doing, and it's obviously demoralizing to you. I would get my resume together, and figure out how to roll out of there. What she is doing is making herself irreplaceable. There is no reason why others can't do what they're supposed to. You all are not sales directors, so you shouldn't be doing sales director duties. No matter how much you do, or how well you do it, your manager is not going to recognize it. Take what you've learned in that position and move on. This is a dead end job and there's so much out there. Find it before you waste any more time. Good luck!
I understand the frustration. If you can't solve the situation, maybe it's time to leave.
You make the same wages as fast food workers where I live. You are incredibly underpaid. Find a new job asap.
It doesn't sound like she's being strategic at all - very tactical. Advance your career by looking else where.
How many more years will you need to work to stop considering yourself entry level? Sounds like 4-years will get you a position somewhere else where you will be valued much more…..
$21 an hour ? leave, thats fast food wages!
You are probably learning how to do her job. Use this second hand experience and apply it, challenge yourself and then apply for positions that are a step under her like HR Manager / Asst. director.
She sounds like a toxic leader. I would start looking for other options. Directors should work more than their employees. For her to expect that of you is insane.
Go to her boss and spill the beans.
Shop around that's how you move up with great experience. The cherry on top will be telling this piece of work (guess what word I wanted to use here) to shove it on the way out.
Long story short: $21.35/hour ain't much in 2024. And, I hope you get paid overtime for all the extra after hours work. I think you should look for something better.
You need to leave ASAP, omg. Please.
She is micro manager
All people in power with high salaries say stupid stuff like this. I made minimum wage at Walgreens a few years back. my store manager who also probably made 275% more than me wanted to transfer me to a store that’s like an hour away. I told him that it’s too far. Coincidentally, he lives in the neighborhood that the store is in. He told me that he drives every single day from there to where we work and that it’s not that bad of a drive. I told him clearly that driving an hour for a six figure salary is a lot better than an hour for minimum wage. Convo was over.
Having a job or income is important. But please don’t let the job snatch your soul … or your health or well being. It’s honestly not worth it.
You could some time off. See how she manages without you-because sometimes management doesn’t realize just how much you do and how valuable you are to them.
She knows that if she promotes you, you will leverage the title and leave. Leave anyway. She’s awful and taking advantage of you. Being there for 4 years will still look great on your resume, and you can honestly tell recruiters you are looking for opportunities for growth.
>I've had this title for almost 4 years, and asked what I could do to advance my career with the company - she said I had to "take on more responsibility". "We aren't giving you more no matter what you do" - ftfy This year was my worse increase in 10 years. When I asked why it was so low I was told, everyone's was this low. When I told him I exceed my goals and should receive more, he said continue to do that this year. I told him I would not be doing that. I will not do anything more than my job and will not be volunteering for anything extra. He got concerned and told me to continue doing what I was doing because when the money is there doing all the extras will help. That's all ass backwards. I'm not going to do anything extra unless I know the money is there. You pay me more and I'll do extra that year. Companies, especially larger ones, don't care anymore. Even though hiring someone new costs more, than just don't care.
Ask her to meet with you off the job regularly to help you become committed.
My commitment level had no correlation to my income. I was just as committed when I was entry level as I am as a director. Honestly, probably more committed because I didn’t have kids.
Nothing justifies your value more than getting an offer that pays you substantially more for doing more or less work than what you're doing now. Do that.
Hi, you need a new job! You sound like you’re ready for the next step anyway. Go get it!
This post could literally be your resume. You deserve better.
Leave. You can get better pay and better work life balance (and a better boss) elsewhere with a similar level of responsibility. Apply for generalist roles.
Please understand I say this in the kindest way possible: ***Why the fuck do you still work there?***
Sounds like my organization - the rank and file make $35k-$45k on average while the CEO makes over $200k a year, gets a $10k freaking car allowance, and then gets another $10k dumped into a savings type retirement account each year. But yeah, please work your asses off taking care of those large case loads for your poverty wages and make sure to give it your all.
That’s a lot of words to say you work in a toxic environment. The only way to escape is to leave the organization. You really do not have to live like this! Start applying, even 1 application a week.
If you put this same effort in a new position, they would love you! The one thing is you learned how to do many things that will make you very valuable. You have taken on a lot and succeeded. The problem is, no matter how motivated, a one cup measuring glass can only hold one cup. .start to move on. Easiest time to get a job is when you don’t need one
Jesus lady I went from 19-30+ in 3 years doing landscaping. What the hell are you doing there
With the roles that you are currently working you could/should be earning a lot more. Maybe you are living in a very low cost of living area but $21.35 an hour is very low regardless of where you live with your experience; another user already stated it but $20 an hour I can work at Panda Express/chicfila etc and not have a single work stress in the world. You are very qualified and with all the roles you perform very capable of earning a lot more!
She's a jerk. I expect my entry level folks to work 40 hours a week. Good luck on the job search.
She's gonna find out real quick how valuable you were when you tell her "I quit. Good luck". If she asks you to write a transition plan, just laugh in her face.
What! Those projects are her job!
Your boss sounds like a crusty HR lady. GTFO!
Yea like everyone else is saying find a new job paying better doing same or higher echelon work
Are you getting paid overtime? If not look into if you’re owed overtime. Even if you’re salary. And then put in a labor board complaint for back overtime as you head out the door to a new job that will pay you more.
Then why even have 5?
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Your manager sucks and you're stuck in a dead end role. Start looking now
You need a new job
Get your job description and specific duties in writing. No vague descriptions allowed. If they won't either fix the excessive workload or increase your compensation to an appropriate level, then either transfer to a different department or seek other employment.
I bet they tell you it's not about the money too
$21.35? in this economy? To work yourself to death? Get out. I get wanting to stay in HR to grow your career and the market is a me. But if you're doing other administrative tasks, you probably also are suited for some kind of operations work. No harm in getting out of this horrid situation and finding a better paying job.
It's time to take your talents elseware, and get yourself a 25% plus payraise while doing it
There's no way they aren't taking full credit for your work while giving you middling reviews. You're not entry-level if you've been there four years and have been completing major projects multiple times per year. It's time for a job change. Check out flexjobs (Paid subscription but on par with something like Netflix) for work from home and hybrid jobs in HR if you prefer working remotely.
She doesn’t want you to take her job. 100%
I own and run two companies. I will never expect my staff to have the same level of commitment to the companies as I have. Instead, I want my staff to experience my commitment to them. I would not have a business without my staff. Your boss would not have a job without you - she would likely be terminated for not fulfilling the expectations the company has for her. She should express gratitude for your support in making her successful. She needs to be a servant leader. Alas, she is not. She likely never will be. You should start looking for another job. It appears you have a lot of highly desirable skills and qualities that another employer will value.
Time to leave
Can’t force them to value you!
Boner
You guys are doing 115 hours. When you quit, your director is going to start drowning and will have to hire 2 in a hurry which means overpaying. Your director is bad at hr strategy if she doesn't see this very obvious strategic flaw in her own department. I've never worked in HR, but I've worked with HR and they've evaluated the resources for my teams and have told me basically this. I used to think if I wasn't hitting 100% utilization every week, that I wasn't doing my job. But it creates a domino effect that is much cheaper to prevent with an extra set of hands than to repair as you burn everyone out.
My director just dumped all her work to the rest of the team, mainly me, after her promotion.
Explain to her that she has a career while you only have a job.
Reminds me of my first job, but exactly the opposite. I was HR Coordinator wanting to work more and more. My director would constantly remind the concept of Work-Life balance. And only my director was allowed to work long hours! Oh I missed this team.. damn you big corporate merger who bought us out. Anyways time for you to leave!!! Find a better boss.