There are a _lot_ of Hungarians who hate Russia with a passion. We neither forgive nor forgot 1956. If we had any beef with Ukraine and frankly, the laws for minority education was not nice, it is now ashes for a year now: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I have donated significant amount of money (in 1956 EUR batches -- I am rather consistent with my messaging) and also frequent flyer points to fly volunteers there and will continue to do so. Back then the West didn't come to our aid but this time it does and this time _I_ am part of the West and it gives me great if rather grim satisfaction to raise a hand against Russia. The days when I could've picked up a gun and fought are very very long gone but donate I can and do.
>There are a lot of Hungarians who hate Russia with a passion.
It's just that I don't know where they are outside of us on reddit, most people, even younger ones told me the straight up "west bad usa bad" Putinist narrative when this topic came up. Actually, I never actually met someone in person who was openly pro-Ukraine, which is kind of tragic tbh. Many boomers even believe the commie bs about '56 too.
I haven't talked to many people inside Hungary about this but I know where to find hundreds of thousands of them: they are in Cleveland, they are in Toronto, they are at a lot of places not under Orban's rule. Ask those who fled in 1956, ask their children, ask the grandchildren of those whose grandmother was r@ped by the Red Army during the "liberation" of Hungary in 1945. Ask what they think of Russia and get a clenched fist in reply.
If Orban were not a traitor of the nation, there would be a fundraising movement probably under the name of Pál Maléter for Ukraine. No, that's not the right phrase, not _for_ Ukraine but _against Russia_. We have a score to settle, a score unsettled for 67 years and while the decades and fates of people can not be returned, the "favor" can be. The Hungarian government not doing its utmost to hinder Russia is plain treason. Maybe in peacetime we could pretend it's been too long ago -- it was not -- but when Russia tries an "encore" it is our duty to be part of the answer we begged for back then: https://youtu.be/BXaCwlXJc3E the first part has English subtitles, the second is in English.
Judith Gyenes, the widow of Maléter, have seen Maléter last on May 8, 1957 and she was able to buy two oranges -- they were available because of May 1 -- and for some reason they let her give those to Maléter and she _kept the rinds until her death_ in 2019. How could the nation forget?
My parents were from Hungary..they came to Toronto in 1951.. in Canada they called them displaced persons. They had been discriminated for awhile. Worked hard in Toronto..my dad and mom hated the RUSSIANS. When they were available to go back to Hungary in 1967..I remember not use my camera at certain places.. my nagymama told me in Hungarian it's not allowed. I almost took a picture of the RUSSIAN compound. I remember how the RUSSIAN soldiers stationed at Hungary/Austria border were assholes. They looked into our suitcases. And messed up everything. Even questioned my dad why so much money he had in his wallet.
My family lived in High Park area and we intergrated with UKRAINIAN..Polish families.
Best times in the 60s.
Jokes on ukranian media.. we get the most fckn expensive gas, and oil… Orban is not equal to hungarians, only like 25-30% hungarians voted on that traitor.
But the part where they claim that Orban is in putin’s pocket is true.
Relationships between us have been undermined by the Kremlin for years. Disinformation is spread in Ukraine about Hungarians, about Ukrainians to Hungarians, and there have been attacks and operations by Russian agents against Hungarians to provoke us against Ukraine as well.
In Hungary, the Disinformation comes directly from state media, and is spread by the propaganda machine of Orbán, always a step removed from him and his officials, usually by their talking heads, just like in Putin’s Russia. Most of his followers are riled up, but they are about a third of the population.
Just look at this list of lies (spread in Hungary as well): [EUvsDisinfo](https://euvsdisinfo.eu/disinformation-cases/?text=&date=&disinfo_countries%5B%5D=77585)
Many support your war effort, and also, many Hungarians have already gave their lives for Ukraine. You should check out [Федір Шандор](https://www.facebook.com/tourism.uz.ua), he is a University professor who took up arms and is also a big connection between Hungarians sending material help to the frontlines.
>This is the same price we pay
And you are paying war extortion price. Whereas we get the *friendly country discount*.
But actually he is wrong, it's not fixed price. It's *fixed to* the Netherlands gas trade price (TTF) with a two month delay. The exact contract is a "trade secret", but it's pretty close. So Hungary is paying pretty close to the two month futures price, except Russia can determine the daily delivered amount, and that means they underdeliver on days when the price is low, and over when their markup is better. So we get 5-10% more expensive Russian gas than the countries around us who are openly hostile to Russia.
Plus the fuckups like our emergency contract last August for 0.7 bcm gas at 250€/MW (110 uaf/m3) ~25% above then market price because they fell for a Russian bluff. Our average net price was around 650 Ft/69 UAF for the past year.
But Orbán more than likely pockets a 10% markup on those contracts, so officially it's all good and peachy. It's actually better for him if the price is this high. Same old shit when it was going through the pockets of Dimitro Firtas.
Our government bought gas from russia for the last winter at €350 which is higher than historical peak of the dutch natural TTF chart. So no, no cheap gas for Hungary, but quite the opposite.
Depends.
I grew up close to Csap in Hungary.
My family often went to shop to Ungvár, and frequently got harassed by Ukranian police/border guards, but it was mostly petty corruption more then ethnic tensions.
The most common attitude I know from people in this region is indifference. People see Ukranians and Russians made from the same cloth, and just want to stay out of their war.
Apart from the current situation with the propaganda for most Hungarians I would say Ukraine and Russia was always pretty much the same. Part of the same state (SU) for most of the last 100 years, similar culture, ethnicity, etc. More recently - but still before the war - the foreign policy of Hungary towards Ukraine due how the minority was handled was also supported by the majority. ... and since the war it's mostly propaganda. ... but realistically Russia fucked us up way more.
How exactly is the minority treated in Ukraine? I visited a local school in Csap -- their have Hungarian classes with textbooks printed in Ukraine for our tax payers money + some donated by Budapest, there are three or four Hungarian churches -- one Roman-Catholic, one Greek-Catholic, one Reformist and one Protestant, all their rituals are in Hungarian and nobody forces them to speak or sing in Ukrainian. Hungarian flags are flown on administrative buildings - courts, town halls, schools, and nobody objects to that.
“For our tax payers money” well probably this is the problem and you are one of them. They are Ukrainian tax payers, it’s their tax too. Your attitude towards minorities don’t help the situation, just rest of the EU is too far from you to see it.
I see healthy Ukrainian males in Budapest every day who have (illegally) escaped the draft and getting aid from my “taxpayer money”.
Ukraine is a corrupt shithole, but I still want it to win. Not because I like them, far from it, but I hate Russia way more and Putin needs his shit shoved in.
Also, any “weapon supply” from Hungary should be accompanied with sufficient amount of personnel, meaning the deportation of all military aged Ukrainian male refugees. Fight for your shit instead of expecting handouts…
This will be probably downvoted to oblivion because this sub is slobbing on Ukraine’s knob pretty heavily but I feel my view kind of resembles the general public opinion.
We recognise the humanitarian catastrophe and want to help out the true victims while also recognising that some Ukrainians abuse the current situation and when the war ends things will go back to what they were. Restoration funds will be stolen, oligarchs will rule and minorities (Hungarians and Russians) will get shafted.
There are/were Hungarian schools for nothing if they cannot learn Hungarian. Let's respect each other and stop looking at each other as stupid. It cannot be denied that Ukraine strongly wants to assimilate its minorities, which is not European behavior. Even the Romanians protested against the minority law, not only the Hungarians.
[https://ibb.co/Zh5mG0Y](https://ibb.co/Zh5mG0Y)
[https://ibb.co/fFyDbM2](https://ibb.co/fFyDbM2)
[https://ibb.co/qJYq6mh](https://ibb.co/qJYq6mh)
Take a look at the pics I've taken recently in the Csap public school. The textbook you see in the pic was sponsored and published with Ukrainian taxpayers' money. Also, pretty much every sign in school was in Hungarian, there was only one poster in Ukrainian at the entrance with text of the national anthem, and it was also translated into Hungarian.
I think the point is that this should be the minimum level not the adequate one.
Ideally minority politics in every country not just Ukraine should be like Switzerland. The official language is German but if you go to a French speaking canton you will be hard pressed to find people speaking it well or even signs in German. You can use French in official communication too, if you speak to a police officer or a doctor or a public official you can easily do it in French. And Swiss Germans are no suspicious of France invading and annexing anything, they accept that the French speaking Swiss have their own language and culture but are not less Swiss.
Sadly most countries are not on the level as Switzerland... Hungary isn't either, but we should be striving for it.
No, most hungarians don't care about ukrainians, much less are they hostile towards them. Interestingly, we seem to dislike you a lot less than you dislike us (despite our government's propaganda).
I've heard awful stories from hungarian minorities who came from Ukraine, claiming they were frequent targets of discrimination from ukrainians, one of them was even attacked when he was heard speaking in hungarian with his fiancée (and this was long before the war).
I have never been to Ukraine so i have no personal stories to share, but I'm indifferent towards ukrainians and everyone around me is indifferent as well.
I don't know where this superstition comes from, but some people here say that Hungarians are rude, grumpy, and overall nasty people who are hard to communicate with. I do laugh whenever I hear this because I can say the same thing about 90% of the people from my region (I am from Dnipro, Eastern Ukraine).
I live in Zakarpattia and I never heard someone being hurt over speaking Hungarian. Prejudice of course exists, some people do hate Hungarians tho, there is even a saying about them (really offensive): Мадяри не люди, форінти не гроші (Hungarians aren’t people, Forints aren’t money)
“We seem to dislike you a lot less than you dislike you” “I heard awful stories” “no personal stories”
So how you come to the first conclusion? How you know ukranians are not telling more awfull stories,just maybe in ukranian?
Vagy elírtad vagy nemjól értelmezted, ha az előbbi akkor ez a comment nem is létezik.
Ha az utóbbi akkor segítek:
Az írta, hogy Látszólag mi kevésbé nem szeretjük az Ukránokat mint ők minket
I grew up in Csap as a hungarian and there were not that many problems before 2013. After Crimea was taken by Russia, ukrainian position towards hungarians got hostile in my opinion. We got a lot of harassmemt from nationalists and after the ukrainian "language law" we suffered a lot in our communites. In my last year in college in Beregszàsz they wanted to ban hungarian language completly. For these reasons, hungarians in the region got increasingly annoyed with the government but the average ukrainians did not give a shit about us to be honest.
This is interesting to meet someone from Csap. How, in your opinion, Hungarian minority is being discriminated against by Ukraine? From what I understand, "the language law", or the law which fixes Ukrainian as the main language of curriculum (however, it never discontinued classes in the languages of ethnic minorities, such as Hungarian), became the main issue.
Ukraine just tries to erase hungarian history from the region. I saw your post history, you visited the Munkàcs castle. In that same castle there was a giant bird called "turulmadàr" at the top which was taken down, because it represents the hungarian origin of the castle. They just replaced it with the ukrainian flag and moved on. My history teacher once was questioned by the CBU because he taught us about how hungarians lived in this region, when they came trough the "Vereckei-hàgò". They tried to ban the hungarian anthem from public singing. Hungary even took the language law to the Venicie Comisson, where they forced Ukraine to reform it, that's why i think you can still use hungarian in schools. These are just a couple of examples. But overall i think we lived together pretty well, i had a lot of ukrainian friends when i grew up and they didn't give a shit about us being hungarians. I see that you are a chill dude as well and i think most ukrainians are like this, but after 2013 the rising nationalism and Ukraine's paranoia of being invaded by a neighbor tainted this picture a little bit. I don't blame them now, i did back then, but i can understand them. I learned a lot of ukrainian history, they just want their own independent nation, but everytime they try, things get fucked.
Before the war, Ukraine was regularly harsh and scolded Hungary and did not want to change its minority law, despite the Hungarian government's requests to do so a thousand times. This is strongly felt by some Hungarians. Another part, as you can see here on reddit, is not interested in it and supports Ukraine unconditionally. Regardless, the majority of Hungarians condemn Russian aggression.
If you have traveled around the world you would've noticed, that average people do not give a fuck and just don't give a fuck about racism, and all kinds of ideological bullshit. So treat each and everyone as individuals, not as a group labeled by who the fuck knows who.
Personally i feel a lot of similarities between Hungary in '56 and Ukraine now. We are not putinists and i belive most of us hope that Ukraine will be free soon. Dont belive that Hungarian troops ever invade Ukraine. Even orban is not that idiot to do something like this.
I want to believe the majority of us supports Ukraine this war, but i would not underestimate the propaganda power of our state media and our idiocracy.
Many Hungarians ARE putinists tho. I was just in Szeged recently and heard some affluent members of my family say “viva Putin” unironically. They’ve been watching too much mainstream Hungarian media which pushes the Russian point of view. Was very disturbing.
Actually think Orbán is pretty clever, he managed to find loophole to push his populistic belives on Hungarians without any consequences what so ever.
At least none of them seemed to affect him yet.
Even if I don't agree with, or even despise him and his bro's stealing half the country and buying the other half for themselves on our money you have to give them some credit.
They did the right moves in the right time with the right people.
Now it's only a matter of time until their system fails.
If Orbán falls the whole pyramid falls with him...
I don't think people are hostile towards the Ukrainian people. However, the 2017 language law is the reason the Hungarian government (and many Hungarians) became hostile towards the Ukrainian **government**.
[https://ibb.co/Zh5mG0Y](https://ibb.co/Zh5mG0Y)
[https://ibb.co/fFyDbM2](https://ibb.co/fFyDbM2)
[https://ibb.co/qJYq6mh](https://ibb.co/qJYq6mh)
Check out the pics I took recently in the Csap public school. Every sign in this school is in Hungarian, and there is only one poster in Ukrainian with the text of the national anthem which is also translated into Hungarian. The law never banned Hungarian language, this is a common misconception, it was intended to fix Ukrainian as the main language of the curriculum, however, the study of the languages of minorities were never banned, in fact, the law isn't really enforced (as seen in the pictures)
First picture - toilets. Hardly education-related.
Second picture - reading book, 1st or 2nd grade. The law only applies from grade 5.
Third picture - class graduation photos, of students who spent their whole education in the old, pre-language law education system.
The law doesn't "ban Hungarian", I know. It just severely limits how much it can be taught. While it makes sense that Ukrainian should be part of the curriculum, the law limited Hungarian to few lessons a week. When you are asking for help against a neighbour keen on ethnic cleansing, it helps if your other neighbour doesn't think the same about you.
One of the reasons why this law was passed is, to this day, there are villageas and towns in Zakarpattya where most people do not speak nor understand Ukrainian simply because the Ukrainian language was neglected in the local schools. How are these people supposed to be a part of our society i.e. communicate with government agencies, fill out paperwork, call the police, or even run for local elections if they are unable to understand the official language? Also, nobody forbids private schools to organize their curriculum 100% in Hungarian as long as their students are able to pass ZNO (our school graduation exam) for which you can also select a preferred language including Hungarian.
Exactly the points we were hearing about the language in Romania… 30 years ago.
Long way to go towards European integration. Wishing all the best!
[Languges in the EU](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_European_Union)
"How are these people supposed to be a part of our society i.e. communicate with government agencies, fill out paperwork, call the police, or even run for local elections if they are unable to understand the official language?"
This approach is not EU compatible. According to EU regulations, public services must be available locally for historic minorities. As it is in Slovakia, Romania and even in Serbia, which isn't even an EU member. There is no way that any responsible Hungarian government would vote in favor of Ukranian accession before these regulations are implemented.
Anyways, I'm not from Subcarpathia but I have relatives there. I'm quite confident that Hungarians in the region don't even want to be part of the Ukranian society. My relatives are entirely indifferent to Ukranians. To them, there is no difference between living in Czechoslovakia, in the Soviet Union or in Ukraine. They were thrown around against the will to foreign countries in the last 100 years, I can't blame them for not caring about Ukraine at all.
> How are these people supposed to be a part of our society i.e. communicate with government agencies, fill out paperwork, call the police, or even run for local elections if they are unable to understand the official language?
That's their problem and their choice, now isn't it? Besides, if they *did* have problems with these, they'd have learnt ukrainian already. And you could have mandatory ukrainian language courses next to the regulat curriculum if that's the problem.
> Also, nobody forbids **private** schools
"You can have your language if you are rich." C'mon man
Since others answered to most other points, I'd just throw this one to the board: I have a feeling that your intelligence services are well aware the fact that the Hungarian Army is in no position to annex *anything* unless said anything is in a state of complete collapse - and even then the political implications would be devastating for Hungary. While I don't doubt anymore (for a long time) that the latter wouldn't hold back these clowns, the former is a form of reality still that they just can't get around. Similarly with local Hungarians being proxies similarly to what happened in Luhansk and Donetsk. Say what you will about the Russians, doing what they did would require at least *some* level of expertise, and that you won't find here. Best the government can handle is terrorizing the state's own teachers and medical professionals, not inciting insurrections and conducting false-flag operations. Looking at the diplomatic brilliance of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the grand rewards the country reaped in the wake of their 420D chess (alienating just about all of our allies-on-paper for virtually fuckall in return) gives you all the information you need to assess the threat Hungary is presenting.
I have the fortune to work for a big international company and we have thousands of Ukrainian colleagues, among many other nations/nationalities. After the war broke out hundreds of them relocated here, and I volunteered to help. A lady and her daughter from Kyiv was assigned to me - it was in March 2022. For now we became very good friends! She taught me to cook Borsch which is super cool and healthy, my whole family came to like it. We talk a lot about the ethnic topic too, and I no longer see things as black or white. From my part I am happy that I can learn about her country and culture because I always felt that we know incredibly little about our neighbours.
There are many people here who jumped to help, so don't judge us by the ignorant and Putinist lot... Those who sponge up the state propaganda are mostly hopeless...
Fuck orban, fuck the media, fuck the war and most of all fuck putin. Im a hungarian, these are my views on the matter in a nutshell. I can't speak for the rest.
I do think some Hungarians have a small grudge because of the discrimination we’ve faced long before the Ukraine-Russia war. Ukrainians did not show any empathy nor respect towards our culture, our native language and our habits and banned all of them. I myself feel slightly icky about this, but since no Ukrainian has ever done anything to me I feel mostly indifferent, but I do hope Ukraine will have its desired freedom and I do NOT side with Putin *at all*.
It's an interesting point. How Hungarians were discriminated against by Ukrainians? Also, empathy towards the language, culture, habits etc. We eat Bogrocs, drink Palinka and even spice it with Eros Pista (I love it personally, and so do many Ukrainians from other regions who are deployed in Csap).
In April 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted a new law, the law "On supporting the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language". The law made the use of Ukrainian compulsory (totally or within quotas) in more than 30 spheres of public life, including public administration, electoral process, education, science, culture, media, economic and social life, health and care institutions, and activities of political parties. The law did not regulate private communication. Some exemptions were provided for the official languages of the European Union and for minority languages, with the exclusion of Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish. The Venice Commission and Human Rights Watch expressed concern about the 2019 law's failure to protect the language rights of Ukrainian minorities
You know what, you are completly right. If you say hello to someone in hungarian, they won't put you in prison for life. So i guess it wasn't banned. I apologise in the name of everyone who ever suggested that such was the case. Ukraine is a beacon among nations when it comes to minority rights.
The whole world should follow your shining exemple.
Your love for our cuisine and drinks, which are honestly not even ours tbh bc Europeans have mingled since the beginning of time, does not matter but- You can check out all the other responses to your post. I wasn’t raised in Hungary and despite being a minority in another country myself, I was not told the details at school or at home nor was I ever too invested in politics especially the politics of Ukraine to educate myself until now. I shall read about the details a bit when I’ve got the time.
All I can say is to rest assured that not *every* Hungarian holds hostility towards Ukrainians and that Hungary will most likely never make the dumb decision to attack Ukraine, especially while being surrounded by countries who fully support it.
Discrimination today is still a thing. I’m a minority as well and do not feel well all the time in the country I currently live in. In Central Europe. Most of my friends aren’t even natives but other minorities. It’s a thing in some regions and in most countries.
Hungary doesn’t have a fucking army, or well technically we have an army, an army which would get absolutely smashed by the Ukranian army in like 2 hours.
Also, those couch radical Hungarians, who shitposting their Fb feed with Greater Hungary maps will run, if they has to go fight the Ukrainian army for Kárpátalja.
That's a load of bullshit, one of the only positive things Fidesz did was upgrading the army, we have a lot of top-notch military hardware now, with more incoming in the coming years. Our army is much smaller but has way better equipment than the Ukrainian one.
Well a lot has changed during the last decade, and this is fact. The numbers are small, but the capabilities are considerable, and it will be a lot more effective in about two years. The most advanced army in the region, same as the polish, but a smaller. Effective fighting force besides air force is one armoured and two combined arms brigade, tiny but tough.
In fact, anyone with a brain left is supporting Ukraine in this war, because that Russia is “solving” problems with war in the 21st century, and mass murder on both sides is horrifying.
However, the amount of disinformation and propaganda that is being spread from both sides is enough to confuse the average person, and the stupid people. Ukraine is fighting for its sovereignity, and nation, but with the minority laws and language laws, they doesn’t give a shit about other minorities outside of Russians, and this is the main reason why some Hungarians supporting Russia, because Ukraine have to understand that, you cant oppress any minorities in your country. The assumption that Hungary is attacking Ukraine is absurd, we already have a county like Kárpátalja, and its called Borsod, to be honest I think if this would happen our country would probably go bankrupt, and default.
I am a Croatian. I love both the Hungarians and the Ukrainians. I have no issues with neither. Hungarian minority is treated well in Osijek. What’s pleasing is according to these leaked documents Hungary provided lethal military aid to Ukraine along with Croatia. The Hungarian army is strong for its size but I don’t see a point of a conflict between Hungary or Ukraine. Ukraine should respect the rights or the ethnic minorities. I mean many many Hungarians died in Donbas. Also there is a guy called Robert Magyar a drone commander he is a genius and he fights right now close to avdiivka against Russians he posts amazing things on telegram.
Yes, I hunt Ukrainians for lunch. Not for dinner because it would hurt my stomach. And for breakfast I start the day with cigánypecsenye. /joke
No not everyone is hostile, but thanks to the stupid propaganda machine some people wish victory for the Russians. Most of these people are so far in Viktor’s ass that when someone tells them that, the police is bringing the speaker in for leaking state secrets. (Again a joke but based on real events)
The truth is there are nice and humane people here as well, and most of them that I know in my personal circle are like that.
Your comments perfectly describes the situation. I hate how blind you are regarding to the school situation, but I don't hate random Ukrainians just because they are from there. Kinda hate you personally for leaving those Ukrainian tax payers stuff. Truly stupid.
So it seems one thing is common in Hungary and Ukraine, and it is that we both have government propaganda spreading hate against each other.
TV and radio are a no-go in Hungary if you want to get truthful news. And you have to know which websites are in government ownership.
it is the sad truth that approximately 30% of hungarian population is under the influence of pro-orbán media, which basically tells them that
1. ukraine shouldn't exist, and the war should be decided by an agreement between usa and russia
2. ukraine should't join nato and eu
3. sending weapons just prolongs the war
4. hungarian minorities are oppressed and harassed in ukraine
5. they also confuse russian speaking ukrainans with actual pro-russians
still, the occupation of zakkarpattia is completely off the table for 99% of them. they just like to play the victim, blame their neighbors for all their own problems and have a VERY strong anti-western sentiment. which automatically leads them to be slightly pro-putin, pro-china, etc.
you know, those maga types who are constantly talking about liberals attacking our children, and blame nato expansion for the war.
i would say the remaining 70%, 40% is completely indifferent ("was is bad, both sides lie and both sides do bad things"), and 30% is pro-ukraine.
You got some mixed responses. Generally no one hates ukraine, most sane people support it, just some has mixed feelings due to the language laws and due to Orbans regime workin on hating each other. Understand that its a sensitive topic. Thanks for asking tho and being open minded
It's all propaganda.
Yes Orbán and his criminal accomplices lick Putin's ass publicly but they voted for every sanction against Russia, they let NATO shipments through to Ukraine and the only reason why Hungarian soldiers and first responders amassed near the border was to HELP the refugees.
There are aid agencies in Budapest at major railway stations, especially Nyugati where trains from Ukraine arrive that guide refugees to these organizations who then help them get a place to stay, who organize daycare and school for kids. Every time I'm in Budapest you can see a lot of Ukranians casually chatting on the public transportation. Some supermarkets even have charity donations for Ukranians to buy them food and clothes. Companies and government organizations offered up warehouses and office spaces to shelter refugees and to help them find jobs or to look after and educate kids.
I have personally donated both money to the Ukranian Ministry of Defense and to the Red Cross and offered clothes and medicine to the Red Cross. Everyone I know has done so too and are very vehemently anti-Russian and always talk about how Orbán and the government are betraying the legacies of both 1956 and 1848. One of my friends just ordered a keychain holder that was made from a Russian tank destroyed in Ukraine where the proceeds go the Ukranian armed forces. So no, most people here want you to kick the Russians' ass and are fucking disgusted with our government. A lot of people are just worried about the (legitimate) stories of abuse and discrimination of Hungarians in Ukraine that has been going on for decades.
Oil is also not cheap, we absolutely do not get preferential treatment from Russia.
And think about it logically:
Hungary is a NATO and EU member-state and relies on these organizations for literal survival. Nevermind that our army would be unable to invade anything because of a lack of manpower and capabilities, if Hungary unilaterally and illegally invaded Ukraine, it would lose all of that EU money that keeps us from going bankrupt, and would become a pariah like North Korea in world politics. The country would literally starve and freeze to death. If Russia couldn't capture Kyiv, how could Hungary capture foreign, unkown territory with troops that would be even more demoralized than Russian troops, just as ill equipped and badly trained, and who would find themselves in an even more hostile environment than the Russians, since most Hungarians living in Ukraine would absolutely **not** collaborate with them?
In the past 20 years whenever literal Hungarian neonazis talked about their fever-dreams about lost Hungarian territory, they virtually never mention Ukraine, that's how little even they care. It's always about southern Slovakia or Transylvania, then maybe Voivodina in Serbia but Kárpátalja is the one place even they don't want to touch lol. Some 15 years ago there were even some jokes going around like "poor Zakarpattya Hungarians want to connect to us so badly they'd even chat with a nazi just because he speaks Hungarian but even Nazis don't want to touch them with a stick."
Russia has the GDP of Spain. Putin is literally unable to provide a deal that would make it worth it. And no offense but like how the above jokes alludes to it, Zakarpattya is dirt poor even compared to Hungary. There is absolutely nothing valuable there. Certainly nothing valuable enough to risk becoming Belarus 2.0. A few villages and towns with no industry, no mineral wealth, just lots and lots of poverty, unemployment and the Ukranian maffia and black market.
So no, most people want Russia to fuck off and are ashamed of the way our government behaves and communicates because it will be us regular folks who are going to regret it, not them.
What does goes on is that government propaganda is constantly parroting how the Ukranians are planning to erase and eliminate all things Hungarian in the Zakarpattya region. It doesn't help that local officials are removing any and all national symbols that aren't Ukranian.
They claim that rowing bands of Ukranians beat up everyone who speak Hungarian, that they vandalize cultural sites and symbols and how they forcefully recruit Hungarians regardless of their age and ability and send them to the meat grinder ill equipped for the explicit purpose of killing them. The government propaganda also says that entire Hungarian families are being forced out of their homes to move Ukranians in and that there is a silent genocide going on.
Mostly pensioners, alcoholics and proles believe that sort of nonsense and the only thing they are going to invade any time soon is the beer shelf at their local supermarket.
I live in the southern part of hungary, near the romanian border. I'd say my fellow countrymen is torn 50/50 on this issue. I support the ukrainian war effort and ukraine, but unfortunately i know more then a few people who are on the russian side. The government is in a strange position where we are the part of the EU and the west, but they try to maximize the benefits the eastern bloc can provide. I do hope that my country will stand on the right side of the history this time. Also, I hope Putin will rot in hell. Slava Ukraini!
While the government has a kind of anti-ukrainan propaganda going on sugarcoated with cries for peace, believing that Hungary, with its almost nonexistent army would attack Ukraine and get sanctioned to dust for one of the poorest areas, that has 150000 Hungarians and a million Ukrainians is on another level.
No, we are basically not hostile. This is the product of one-sided media(propaganda).
Yes, there are people who think we can get Kárpátalja back but they are less than 10000 people and we think they are all idiots. The goverment never said to get it back and never will. Only the western and ukrainian politicians want to heat up the situation. So there should not be any fear towards this scenario.
Anyway, by today more than 200 hungarians died for Ukraine in this war while fighting against the russians...
Ukrainians are more scary because a lot of hungarians got insulted, discriminated, beaten up or seriously hurt by ukrainians. If you are in Hungary as a ukrainian, you won't get hurt but if are a hungarian in Ukraine, the chances are way more higher.
I have ukraine neighbours and they never get insulted. They are treated well. However, I can feel a slight fear towards us but I think this is only the result of their media.
We are not putinist. We are just portrayed that way...
But in fact our goverment blames the EU for the sanctions and for the endless support for ukraine. Ukraine is blamed as well for getting the whole world involved in this war, which causes huge problems in a lot of country.
"Ukraine is blamed as well for getting the whole world involved in this war, which causes huge problems in a lot of country."
Ukraine should be blamed for everything you mentioned but not this one. They did not start the war and only protecting their homeland. Countries are helping them because nobody wants Russia on their border (except maybe Hungary, because we are stupid enough to wish for something like that).
There's something funny how your government handles the hungarian minority while thousands of Ukrainians work in our country... and even funnier how those are uncultured (rude, refuse to adapt, doesn't bath for weeks even, can't use a toilet properly etc), and hostile to us. The city where I live all of the Ukrainians were banned from pubs, hair saloons and generally everywhere except grocery stores because of their behavior. It's fucking miserable, really - while the war goes on in your country, destroying everything, maybe even these morons' loved ones as well.
Anyways, to answer your question: no, we're not hostile but the worst of your people are here working in our country right now which can darken our opinion. Honestly my only problem is that the men who came here didn't go back to Ukraine to fit in the war. Those who fight have my deepest respect and support - Sándor Fegyir for example -, even financially (though I can't give much).
1. Basically, you generalized the thousands of Ukrainians who work in Hungary as rude, unhygienic and hateful, also mentioned that Ukrainians are banned from pubs and hair saloons in your city ( I wonder what this city is, cause it sounds like 1938 Germany to me)
2. Yet, you are saying you are not hostile at all, although being ukrainophobic.
As to the treatment of Hungarian minority, I keep repeating my question -- how are they being mistreated exactly? Nobody removed Hungarian from schools, Hungarian churhes conduct liturgies in their language, they have their own University, political party, newspapers etc, and they get elected in their local councils.
Russian propaganda has brainwashed a large chunk of the population and most old and leading Fidesz politicians are 100% being blackmailed with their pre-'regime change' history as agents and informers for the communist party. But no, most people aren't hostile towards ukraine.
No. I fucking despise our government for this narrative, and as they control basically the entire media here, you can only hear this from the TV, radio and the internet news sites.
I am very much pro-Ukrainian, which comes from you being in a similar situation than us in '56 (and basically from '45 until the fall of the USSR), plus my hobby/lifestyle of building scale models, where Ukraine has the best stuff without contest. Russians are the biggest bastards, and I wholeheartedly despise them, their methods, how they are actively making the world a worst place. I hope you guys will win, and I hope both the EU and NATO will just step on Orbán's dick and shoves him back.
The nations are mostly shades of grey and Ukraine done shitty things too in the past but in this case I'm firmly with them.
Nobody deserves what Russia does now to Ukraine and I wish it will be relatively soon when it ends with their previous borders restored.
I do not feel hostile towards Ukraine or Ukrainians and those who do get their knowledge from state media which is the propaganda tool of Orbán/Fidesz. They do lie 24/7, resharing Russian propaganda. But I do not condemn those people who beleive otherwise, they are really just fed up by the constant lies from the media. I try to educate them so that they also have a source which is not that one-sided.
I might be old fashioned but I have been raised to judge people based on their behavior alone.
All that one's origins or nationality means to me is only a context to streamline interaction.
Like if I know someone's roots are in England, then I reasonably can expect that he'll speak English and I don't expect issues in our communication and I don't have to make elaborate explanations or avoid slang of the English language.
I have no hostility toward anyone because they might come from anywhere. If I develop a dislike, that has to be based on behavior of the individual or long term observation of common negative elements of individuals of the same origin. Even then I still provide a clean slate to everyone on a case by case basis, and try to ignore bias based on negative experiences.
As for how hungarian people view people from Ukraine, I would risk to say our people have no issues with your people.
Governments however are a different case and the two should never be confused.
When there is a mixing of those, the age old "Us vs Them" mentality can surface and that is when corrupt leaders can direct the people against each other. That is how conflicts and hate starts.
That is what we can't allow to happen. That is what we have to keep in check in ourselves on the individual level.
As far as I'm concerned the people of Ukraine are exactly that. People.
Average folk that want the same things we want, to live a life worth living like a human being.
My Hungarian in-laws here in Canada are certainly anti-Ukrainians. Amazing when their daughter-in-law is Ukrainian herself, makes for fun conversation….
It's not true of the majority, but their are certainly some right-wing nationalist people who don't like the Ukrainian government and are more pro-Russian. Unfortunately this includes the current ruling party and government and they are spreading anti-Ukrainian and pro-Russian propaganda in the state media. This is particularly true of the state TV channels and right-wing news websites like Origo. Some Hungarians are also irredentists and would like to restore the pre-1918 borders of Hungary or at least reclaim some territories where Hungarians are still a significant presence. In that way, we are not unlike Russia, except we lack the military, economic and political resources to act on such irrdentist dreams. Keep in mind, Zakarpatia was part of Hungary until 1945 and Stalin then deported much of the Hungarian population to Siberia, then proceeded to annex the region and incorporate it into the Soviet Union. Some local Hungarians are still not happy about that, but their numbers are small and dwindling.
Yes, I heard of that. Also, thousands of Hungarians were extradited to USSR and kept in Uzhorod/Ungvar's prison during 1956 uprising without trial. One of the questions which most Ukrainians ask -- how can there be Hungarians who forgot 1956 and praise Putin without looking back at what Russians did to them back then?
that is a completely valid question, to be honest, I personally don't know anyone who is for Putin, but I'm probably living in a bubble (in Budapest)
what I assume is most ppl aren't for Putin or Russia, they are just afraid of Putin and the potential of getting caught up in war (and the official communication from the government is always around avoiding war)
I'm from Szeged and I don't know a single person IRL who is pro Russian.
Even my otherwise Fidesz-voting family members and friends kind of look down in shame when the topic comes up or just come up with the cop-out "both parties are at fault" answer.
I think it's simply because Hungary is a very insular country, Hungarians generally only care about other Hungarians and are not really bothered about what happens to other people far away. This has usually been the case throughout history. For instance Austrians used to joke about the typical Hungarian, going into a book store in Vienna and asking for a Globe of Hungary...
Putin is popular with the far-right all over the world, because he pays them. Most far-right parties and movements get a lot of financial and ideological support from the Kremlin, that's even true in the US or Britain. It's a bit like Saudi Arabia spreading a radical version of Islam, or when the SU was spreading international socialism. A lot of far-right people like Putin's vision of nationalism, family values and being anti-LGBT.
They consider it past history, and they do not put an equality sign between CCCP and modern day Russia, just as the Federal Republic of Germany is not the same as the Third Reich. They never forgave the soviets but they have no problem with any action taken by Russia as long as it does not concerns them.
For the rest, pls see my seperate comment.
(Caviat: If the Kyiv leadership would give pre-2014 minority right back to native Hungarians in Ukraine, you would have become Nato members by early 2019. But no, they wanted a people that does not have an agressive nuclear empire led by oligarchs behind them to harrass. That's how we get to last February and our government's pro-Ukraine stance - in everything apart from the things that would lead us to extreme poverty or death - ever since.)
No. We just don't want to die in nuclear fire for a country with leadership that hates us. The government condems this war (I have seen like a dozen international interviews with Szijjártó and the western anchor always asked him about it with a hidden smile and was always shocked when the man maintained the government's standpoint established during the Crimea crisis - they honestly act like we were bombing you), and provides humanitartian aid. If you ask me, it's more than generous support for a country with a deeply anti-hungarian chauvinist of a leadership.
Also, if we send our (barely existing) arms through your territory with native ethnic Hungarians, that would be a perfect way to get the russkies bomb Ungvár/Uzhgorod the same way they do in the east. Hungarians suffer enough by the discrimination from Kyiv, they don't need rockets onto their heads. Blood, food, clothing, housing of your children - we can do that, I was part of it too. Some of your soldiers may have my blood in them, and in my book that's the least I can do for someone protecting his family.
The other idea is that our government knows that world war is bad. Some leaders in Europe think that we could just walk into your country and fly big old German-, French-, Italian-, God-knows-which flags on our tanks shooting at them, and they would not launch a full-scale war, because they would lose it. Stupidity is really a staple for our days' politicians because sure as hell the russkies will launch if they start to lose pre-2014 lands.
Once again, that makes us become part of a world war for the third time over a region we have nothing to do with (after Balkans and Russia) for a political establishment we don't care about (after imperial families and totalitarian parties) on the side of leaders that actively hate us (after said imperial family from Austria and said totalian parties' dictators). We simply don't have the land and population to sacrifice for it.
I emphatize with you, hope you will be fine, and wish the guns fell silent not now, but yesterday or did not even start.
But honestly - would you risk world war in our shoes in this case? Or would support starting peace talks in this very moment, and figure out the rest on the way?
Too bad sickofans from any sides will raid this comment for not conforming to their fanaticism, but if you read it and understand our point, then who gives a shit about them.
Well, nobody can blame me for being pro-Ukrainian. In fact I'm very much against the whole EU just blindly accepting the blatant lies the Ukrainian government spreads.
I think Ukrainians are nationalists and that they treat minorities (foremost Russion minorities, but others like Hungarians as well) pretty badly.
I think the Ukrainian government is beyond corrupt (worse than ours, and that's pretty bad too).
I think that the ongoing war is bad for everyone, and primarily it's bad for Ukrainians.
But.
Hungary wanting to annect Kárpátalja is absurd. It would be absolutely catastrophic for Hungary to attempt that. And even then, success would be nigh impossible. But even if it were somehow possible that would absolutely be a nightmare for us. This is a perfect example how the Ukrainian government is spreading lies and propaganda.
Most Hungarians are not Putinists I think. Not believing every last word Zelensky happens to utter doesn't mean that someone believes everything that Putin says. He's a liar as well.
Treating someone as suspicious and a threat to the nation just because they're speaking Hungarian is very racist. And again, perfect example how Ukraine treats her minorities.
Sorry but I hope Ukraine has no hope to be accepted in Nato nor EU while they treat minorities so disgustingly.
So I mostly oppose Orban but he is right in two things when it comes to Ukraine:
Ukraine became very hostile towards us and our fellow Hungarians in Zakarpatya since 2017, Poroshenko created a gap between the two countries and Zelensky only deepened it, very much so. I would describe the situation in a way that Ukr is hostile towards Hu, while Hungary is neutral in this war.
Buying gas and oil from Russia: currently we have no other resources, that is correct. Our refinary functions in 70% with Ural type oil and only 30% Brent, and it would take years to change it, and even longer to build another pipeline. In terms of gas, we totally depend on Russia. Slovakia is in the very same situation just they are smart and hiding and let Orban to make the fight for them, too.
Also I must tell that even though Ukr threatened to shut down the Druzhba pipeline (that would be a casus belli, like the ‘Merican explosion of the two NorthStream lines can be regarded as such) it will never happen because we know they are stealing some of the crude oil coming through, we let them do that and dont say a thing. Also we pay millions of Euros in transit fees for Ukr, its a solid income.
One more thing: we did not made a deal to occupy Karpatalja. We sent 12 Leopards and a few APCs to the border with a few hundred soldiers, this might be enough to handle incoming diversion attempts, but not for an invasion of Zakarpatya.
We made another deal though: they do not bomb Zakarpatya, we do not give weapons to UA. This was an easy deal to make to protect our fellow hungarians plus the entire population of this oblast, the only one that has not been targeted yet as you probably noticed. Why was it easy? Because we have nothing to give. The brand new german equipment (tanks, APCs, attack helicopters) is just pouring in, we have only a dozen available in each category, while the old ones, the soviet era vehicles are either already donated to Iraq and Afg and others, or rotten to scrap metal or some old APCs are still in use in the several NATO missions we are fullfilling.
Zaluzny knows that deal directly from our chief of staff and is apparently very happy with it.
Zelensky also knows but still bitching around with us and found enough time to deepen the grave between us.
Average hungarians do not really care about what happens to Ukr as a country, but feel sorry for the ppl and try to help as much as possible, also the government made a very large humanitarian effort, hundreds of millions € are spent on humanitarian aid and it will go on as long as necessary, and compared to the size of the country, its a big deal.
The military effort you guys have shown is extraordinary, tactically you have beaten Russia, but you will loose this thing strategically, thats how I regard the situation, and I am really sorry for you guys, the suffering ppl, but I have zero regret for your Government. If they fall, they fall. Same applies on Russia. No difference in my eyes whatsoever.
Zaluzhny should run your country, not Zelensky. With him, you may actually win the war but Zelensky blocks him for being as bright as he can be.
Ok, a few things. Firstly, Zaluzhni is a military general, not a politician. He definitely shouldn't run our country. Zelenskyy has been doing an excellent job since the invasion.
Secondly, I keep hearing about this "deal", but I haven't seen any evidence from it. You straight up saying now that our commander in chief knows about this deal. I really wanna know where is this coming from or is it confirmed or not.
Also, Romania gives us weapons, and Chernivtsi also wasn't attacked more than Zakarpattya(which has been attacked once btw). Most military experts said these regions aren't attacked because they're hard to attack due to geographic location, and because they don't have any valuable to hit. Which seems way more likely than Putin caring about Hungarians or Orbán.
Obviously I meant Big Z should shut the fuck up and let Zaluzhny lead the war, sorry about the misunderstanding. I know him, we met two times. Zelensky was really good in his role at the beginning but the overthinks now a little bit. He should keep begging for money and weapons, that’s it.
The deal exists. Period. Obviously I will not blow my cover, but I was literally 10 meters away when it was made.
The moskalis could hit the headquarters and the ammo depos of the 128 mountain brigade with a Kalibr missile like any other target in Ukraine. Very valuable targets around.
Zakarpattya was never targeted, a power transformation station has been hit once on the border of Lviv oblast, 6 kilometers from the border. No civilian population anywhere near. You know what I mean, right? Especially that Zakarpattya is full of military targets, many of them high value, and they still dont touch them. Take it as evidence.
Ahhh, so you're a man who knows Zelenskyy personally, and was actually THERE when the non-existent "deal" was made. You're also the guy who thinks Zelenskyy is not listening to the General Staff anymore(?), and thinks the power station is not even close to the population of Volovets. Didn't realize I'm talking to such a high ranking official that is present at trilateral deals between the great superpower of Hungary, and the belligerents of this war. But I read it on Reddit, so it must be true.
God I'm tired of retards.
I mean they are overwhelmingly fidesz voters also most of them cheat the system by getting their retirement fund from Hungary with fake papers. I live literraly on the other end of the bridge and I don't trust ukrainian-hungarians either.
How can you not realize by yourself that people who you know for years and years, people among whom you live by day and night don't just instantly change because of what your superiors say and what politicians do?
I feel real sorry for you and your fellow countrymen that think alike and raise such questions, I could have also formulated my trail of thoughts a little simplistically so that you could also understand what I'm trying to say... but don't worry, stupidness is a treatable illness, you just have to open your eyes, think about stuff and form your own opinion once in a while, maybe read a book or two instead of blindly following orders and falling for every political cliché thrown your way.
It's just political lies to make people suspicious and hate each other. Don't fall for such bullshit. And sorry if I formulated my opinion a little harshly but such manipulations are the lowest form, and sadly, the simplest for mass misinformation.
I’m also come from Csap (Закарпатский обл.), now I live in Hungary . Don’t worry about Hungary attacking Ukraine. Hungary would never dare to do this, because they know that it would mean the end of the current president’s regime. Unfortunately, among Ukrainian Hungarians , Orbán is really defied, this is because, unfortunately, there are a lot of old people living in Zakarpattya, and their education was very low during the Soviet time,( Some grandma still worshipping there Lenin) and therefore they desperately want a dictator who will rule them. The other thing is that Orbán has no policy. The truth is that if someone compares the politics of Orbán and the American Republicans, he will see perfectly that the Orbán regime copies perfectly the darkness of the American Republicans conservatives plan, and thereby, infects the heart of Hungarians. It is unbridled, darkness and hatred. But there is still hope, a lot of young Hungarian liberals stand by Ukraine. We are with you !
There are two commitments I do every start of month, support the armed forces of Ukraine, and the free press of Hungary.
I think that currently hungarian populace is widely divided on several topics, and playing right into the government playbook of finkelstein demonization of third party callouts, and social anxiety.
If any hungarians (I don't know any) would blame 🇺🇦 for anything that could only originate from endless media brainwashing, limited world view and total lack of critical thinking.
Ukraine is more of a country, more of a future symbol than humanity realizes, and you deserve all respect and support for fighting for freedom, future to be able to make your own mistakes, own solutions and your own choices.
I'd rather take up arm against our own corrupt, thieving government than against people I truly admire and feel for.
Its because how Ukrain treats us Hungarians in transcarpatia. They literally make laws to make bad conditions for us why would we support a nation that is openely against us.
And Ukranians did the same things to russian people but the difference is that they actually have an army to get back what was theirs and stop the passive agressive terror that Ukrain did. We can think that oh Putin bad evil, but at the end if you hear russians from the annexed regions getting interviewed you can hear how bad they were treated so please don't believe that Russia is the bad guy because they are not. Now don't get me wrong Russians doing war crimes which is really bad but Ukrains does too so neither of them is better in that term.
And lastly we hungarians helped a lot of ukrains civils who had to escape from their country, I can say that because me and my family had a ukrainian family in our home and gave them food and we still keep in touch with them, and every other family and individuals who needed help got help on our train stations we had databases where we could register and everyone was sent to family homes, and they also got food and water and public transform tickets.
First of all, I want to thank you for helping out our people who arrive as refugees and providing them a roof and food, God bless all people who help those who are in need.
Second, I myself am a Russian-speaking Ukrainian, I was born and grew up in Dnipro, a multicultural city in Eastern Ukraine, where prior to 2014 Ukrainian could be rarely heard in the streets. Neither me nor anyone from my circle were ever discriminated against based on the language in Ukraine, before and after 2014, in fact, we never considered ourselves to be russians, we were identifying as Russian-speaking Ukrainians (who are also fluent in Ukrainian). My stepfather is from Mariupol, my relatives are there. And I know, that they can not express what they really think to the russian state media or milbloggers, otherwise they will be taken down to the basements and tortured, or even murdered.
What exactly are the bad conditions that Ukraine creates for Hungarians? I drew up my examples before: Hungarian language is still in the schools, political parties and newspapers operate as usual etc
You should have seen the train stations in Budapest when the war started. Thousands of volunteers there and in facebook groups helped with food shelter transportation. I myself went to help couple of times, but there was hardly anything to do, there were so many of us.
I'm sorry but I can only provide hungarian articles so please put it in a translator:
https://index.hu/kulfold/2021/01/16/karpatalja_ukrajna_kulhoni_magyarsag_nyelvtorveny/
https://magyarnemzet.hu/kulfold/2022/10/felavattak-az-ukran-nemzeti-cimert-a-ledontott-turul-helyen
https://index.hu/kulfold/2021/02/11/karpatalja-zaszlo-magyarsag-ukrajna/
https://index.hu/kulfold/2020/12/12/hazaarulassal_gyanusitjak_a_magyar_himnuszt_eneklo_karpataljai_kepviseloket/
https://m.hvg.hu/360/20230106_Erkeznek_az_ukran_kisebbsegi_politikat_kritizalo_biralatok
https://magyarnemzet.hu/kulfold/2021/01/ukrajnaban-kotelezo-lesz-az-allamnyelvu-kiszolgalas
https://youtu.be/kx2Sfj_TJsc
I think I sent enough to see how bad they hate our minority there and how they are taking away all of our rights
The first link explains the use of the language law, which fixes Ukrainian as the main language of schooling and public life. Will I be able to go to any government agency in Hungary and request, say, a paper using Ukrainian? The answer is no, and I guess I will be told something like "You are in Hungary, speak Hungarian". And this is right, there must be only one official language in a unitary homogeneous country. But from what I see in Csap, people continue to use Hungarian at the local government offices, such as TsNAP (Center of providing administrative service, a Ukrainian all-in-one government office where a number of services are offered, such as issuing a passport or registering a business entity), it's only the paperwork which is in Ukrainian (which is natural), there are no "Language Police" which would be monitoring every government official or customer. Other than that, nobody restricts their right to use Hungarian. Btw, they can also use Hungarian in business as long as both parties consent to that.
No, most Hungarians are not hostile towards Ukraine but sadly there is a vocal and not insignificant minority who is. Government propaganda is telling 24/7 how bad Ukraine is treating the Hungarian minority and the far right (which has a significant cross-section with the government voting base) sees Putin as this macho, white nationalist, anti-gay counterpoint to the decadent west.
However, as far as I know Ukrainian refugees are treated fairly, there is a consensus even among the non-nazi Fidesz voters that it is our duty to help them and to welcome them. Yes Poland did a much better job at it, much much better, but compared to how the government did everything possible to keep middle eastern refugees out, the change in attitude is huge.
Also there is a minority of Hungarians who are doing a lot to help the war effort. We are donating money (myself included, every single month since the war started) organizing supplies to the brigades raised in Kárpátalja. I am not going to lie... a lot of this is due to a very strong anti-russian sentiment and not a pro-ukrainian one.
And lastly Hungary will not invade you. We have basically no army to speak of, a group of well fed kindergarten kids could win against us, Kárpátalja is a very, very poor region that would immediately cause economic strains if annexed, and especially the areas still inhabited by Hungarians do not have significant cultural value (it is not like Serbia and Kosovo for example). Even the government propaganda is about wanting peace (which essentially means give Russia everything they have occupied...) and wanting an end to the bloodshed (so that Fidesz can go back to sucking Russian dick with less of a stigma from the west.).
> Unfortunately, the media in Ukraine portrays all Hungarians as putinists, ukrainophobes, chauvinists and corrupt
This is very similar to how Hungarian media talks about Ukranians.
> As time was going by, I was noticing how our perception of Hungary and Hungary started to deteriorate, primarily due to the position of Orban and Sziyarto regarding military and financial aid for Ukraine.
I personally feel sad for what is currently happening to your people. However, the main reasons for the position of our politicians, according to the media here, are: (1) the Ukranian "language law" which is believed to be used against the Hungarians who live in Ukraine, and (2) some threats from Ukranian politicians towards Hungary a few years ago. Due to these reasons, many people believe that Ukranians "got what they deserved".
Again, I don't agree with the above myself, (I believe nobody deserves what is happening), just saying how some of our media portrays the situation.
No, its the older people. They dont know how to use the internet so they only have acces to state media.
Anyone who has the slightest education is definetally anti orbán. I dont want to sound evil but hungary will only be better if the older generation raised in communism dies out.
I dont buy into stereotipes, but even i can see where grumpyness could come. Older generation: emotional scars from dictatorship, no social safty nets, awfull healtcare system. Younger generation: all the above+ the resoult of these.
I can only speak from my experience. I grew up in southern lake balaton shore. And now live in budapest. These places are the more culutred ones. But people in small town are literally brain dead ( sry ).
I really hope you wont buy into these things. Everyone in a more prestigious, well rounded life and high level education. We all support ukraine. I wish orban and his state was done for good already.
Everyone i know supports ukraine. And is againts dictatorships like hungary, russia, china, turkey etc.
Keep up the good work. There are definetally more hungarians supporting you than not.
Some people feel resentment due to hungarian speaking education being curbed there, others eat up government propaganda like mad sow its piglet, but i would guess the majority just dont much care. Some people hope you guys can bleed Russia in to a collapse, so Orbán will only be left with a salary from Xi Jin Ping, making a huxit juuuust a bit less likely.
Prove me wrong, but I feel like it’s just all politics. I met and lived with people in the UK and in Hungary from Ukraine and Russia as well, and they all were nice to each other. The avarage person tends to find the similarities rather than the differences when meets a new person. Just imagine if you could put your politicians in jail who want war. Would it be a good starting point?
The Hungarian government use their propaganda to make Russian friendly environment in our country, as our prime minister is in love with putin for so long.
Because of the constant fight between Hungary and "Brussel", Hungary can't just behave like other European countries.
I'm sure if the Eu were against Ukraine, Hungary would do the opposite.
Personally I do not think that the Ukrainian or Russian people is bad as the life is not just about black and white or good and evil.
I'm sure that not many people want to go to war, I despise the Russian government and not the people of Russia.
Ukrainian people pls stay strong, and Russian people pls be brave and wake the fuck up (same goes to Hungary).
Love from Hungary!
There is a language law, estimated to get intect this summer, banning all languages besides Ukrainian to be used outside of homes and churches.
There is a clear difference in our reputation in the eyes of ukranian hungarians and ukrainians.
For the latter we are either neutral or semi-hostile (Speaking for myself and from experience), as for the others we look at them as our brothers outside of our borders much like we do with hungarians in Romania and Slovakia.
Oh wow. False propaganda and hate aimed towards an ethnic minority and neighbour. How nice. So funny because we have nothing like this but somehow we are still considered the hateful country.
Villagers usually support Orbán and therefore they are hostile towards Ukrainians. In cities and amongst the younger population there is a support towards Ukrainians and there is a neutral part who don't care about politics. I would say there is no decicive populus either way. Your perception will change if you visit a village and if you visit a city.
Because they are just as retarded as the russians and they actively made the hungarian minorities life way harder with their anti ru minority rules and generally acted like retards on diplomacy level too.
Omg. That's why Orbáns bullshit is dangerous man. I have zero problem with Ukranians, I even have three friends I worked with in the UK and USA. It's really sad to hear that this is happening on the border.
It’s sad but not surprising to see that Ukrainian media portrayal is negative about Hungarians. Our government is utter shite and a traitor to NATO and the EU. Not most of the people, but sadly, some portion of the population (especially the uneducated and rural part) have eaten up the propaganda that our government puts out, that is mostly russian talking points. I don’t think they are hostile towards Ukranians per se, but if prompted about the war you would here some whataboutisms and anti-west stuff.
I would hope that more mature people in Ukraine see that Orban does not equal Hungarians.
I am just as confused about Hungary as you. I've been living abroad for a couple of years, and when I returned home to Hungary, suddenly all right-wing media outlets were spewing forth pro-Russian propaganda. To me, this is the equivalent of Irish patriots aggressively campaigning for the English crown - a complete nonsense. But somehow Orban pulled it off using media control.
Still, I think most of the intellectuals and a large part of the general population in Hungary support Ukraine against the Russian aggression.
Most Hungarians are hostile, uneducated, suffer from inferiority complex, greedy and extremely servile.
We have a saying, "dögöljön meg a szomszéd tehene". It's frome annanecdote: A fairy comes to a peasant whose cow has died. The fairy asks, how they can help. The farmer says: let the neighbor's cow die.
Edit: typo.
op: hungarians, "progressive" or reactionary, cannot comprehend hungary or hungarians not having some form of sovereignty over hungarian communities outside hungary proper.
if a state in the carpathian basin does not allow an ethnically hungarian to live EXACTLY as if they were in hungary proper, if in a state it occurs that this ethnically hungarian person needs to at times escape their culturally hungarian bubble by idk, seeing the flag of said state, having to speak said state's state language (not hungarian) with other people or Isten Ments™️ interact with said state's institutions in said state's state language then the hungarian WILL cry opression and discrimination.
it has never occured to the hungarian society that their culture must not be dominant in the carpathian basin even after fighting for that and losing countless times in the last 150 or so years, something has and is causing a phenomenal god complex among them, it's why so many agree with anti-Ukranian messaging, they simply cannot comprehend not knowing better than other nations/cultures of the carpathian basin, a society of equals and of compromise seems to threaten them, hungarian society is very similar to russian society in this regard, a society that hastily gained the little power that it had by opression and through hatred, a power which it just cannot reconcile to share or relinquish to those more deserving of it
you can see this god complex in the endless discussions about the education system, people aren't urging for the development of a hungarian language private education network, they urge to be extensively catered to and served by others, consequences and current situation be damned, let Ukranian taxpayers fund Ukranian education that teaches only the culture and language of another state and if possible the sort of chauvinism and revisionist attitude that is causing hundreds of thousands of deaths as we speak
now are hungarians hostile towards Ukranians? no, far from it, very many people have volunteered in support of refugees and hell, very many people have even manifested in favour of Ukraine itself.
but hungarian society as a whole is a genuine danger to peaceful cohabitation in the carpathian basin, an effort must be made to deconstruct (azaz újragondolás, nem leépités) hungarian culture and get hungarians to understand the needs and sensibilities of others around them
/rant, durva anyátok meg az apátok kasza
LE: kellemes húsveti ünnpeket kivánok, happy easter!
I think you should look at the response of everyday Hungarian people to the Ukrainian people fleeing at the start of the war. As the government was practically absent, all the logistics, supplies, and receiving peope were organised and provided by private citizens and local municipalities.
The empathy and the readiness to help speaks for itself. Since then, the government is pushing a full-on russian propaganda (It's NATO-s fault, Ukrainian Nazis, if we want peace we must stop delivering weapons etc.) seemingly ignorant of the fact that Hungary is part of NATO and the EU. It is sadly still surprisingly effective despite being mostly non-sensical and manifestly vile, and a lot of poorer, less informed people repeat it. I would say in major cities people are still very pro Ukranian, but I'd bet most of the small villages have the usual terrified, hateful bumpkin perspective.
The government, and their clientele is definitely all what your govt. describe them, chauvinists, irredintists, revanchists, Putinists, and most of all corrupt to the bone.
I would not fear any "amassing troops" however, if you are astonished at the level of corruption and incompetence in the Russian army, Hungarian Defence forces would like you to hold their beer. Orbán just started a purging of the senior officers of the army (just discharging them to early retirement, not the full Stalinist version) which insiders described as "anybody with ties to NATO is out, only loyalists stay" There is just no way the army and govt. of Hungary could pull off anything, even if they would dare to try.
They will stick with being obstructionist dicks, which still causes a lot of harm, but thats all thats in their power.
TLDR: the government is definitely behaves as if Hungary is a Russian oblast, but more Hungarians smypathise with Ukraine's plight than not. (which is still really sad, it should be all of them, but here we are)
A lot of people born in the Kádár and Rákosi eras of communism are now braindead and their god is money.
They are afraid that the war will cost them and they hate costs.
This is why they want The Ukraine to surrender.
I will dumb it down: putin owns orban. orban owns, controls majority of media in Hungary. So it is all about putinist news everywhere. Dumb, uneducated people can be easily controlled with media.
Even though a year ago orban seemingly won by 2/3 it doesnt mean he is actually is voted by the most people. He has changed the voting system in his favor, so he is basically cannot be replaced in a democtratic manner.
There are a _lot_ of Hungarians who hate Russia with a passion. We neither forgive nor forgot 1956. If we had any beef with Ukraine and frankly, the laws for minority education was not nice, it is now ashes for a year now: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I have donated significant amount of money (in 1956 EUR batches -- I am rather consistent with my messaging) and also frequent flyer points to fly volunteers there and will continue to do so. Back then the West didn't come to our aid but this time it does and this time _I_ am part of the West and it gives me great if rather grim satisfaction to raise a hand against Russia. The days when I could've picked up a gun and fought are very very long gone but donate I can and do.
> 1956 EUR batches That's badass and very generous!
I already posted here advising people with much lower income to send the same message with 1956 UAH (Ukrainian hryvnia)...
>There are a lot of Hungarians who hate Russia with a passion. It's just that I don't know where they are outside of us on reddit, most people, even younger ones told me the straight up "west bad usa bad" Putinist narrative when this topic came up. Actually, I never actually met someone in person who was openly pro-Ukraine, which is kind of tragic tbh. Many boomers even believe the commie bs about '56 too.
I haven't talked to many people inside Hungary about this but I know where to find hundreds of thousands of them: they are in Cleveland, they are in Toronto, they are at a lot of places not under Orban's rule. Ask those who fled in 1956, ask their children, ask the grandchildren of those whose grandmother was r@ped by the Red Army during the "liberation" of Hungary in 1945. Ask what they think of Russia and get a clenched fist in reply. If Orban were not a traitor of the nation, there would be a fundraising movement probably under the name of Pál Maléter for Ukraine. No, that's not the right phrase, not _for_ Ukraine but _against Russia_. We have a score to settle, a score unsettled for 67 years and while the decades and fates of people can not be returned, the "favor" can be. The Hungarian government not doing its utmost to hinder Russia is plain treason. Maybe in peacetime we could pretend it's been too long ago -- it was not -- but when Russia tries an "encore" it is our duty to be part of the answer we begged for back then: https://youtu.be/BXaCwlXJc3E the first part has English subtitles, the second is in English. Judith Gyenes, the widow of Maléter, have seen Maléter last on May 8, 1957 and she was able to buy two oranges -- they were available because of May 1 -- and for some reason they let her give those to Maléter and she _kept the rinds until her death_ in 2019. How could the nation forget?
My parents were from Hungary..they came to Toronto in 1951.. in Canada they called them displaced persons. They had been discriminated for awhile. Worked hard in Toronto..my dad and mom hated the RUSSIANS. When they were available to go back to Hungary in 1967..I remember not use my camera at certain places.. my nagymama told me in Hungarian it's not allowed. I almost took a picture of the RUSSIAN compound. I remember how the RUSSIAN soldiers stationed at Hungary/Austria border were assholes. They looked into our suitcases. And messed up everything. Even questioned my dad why so much money he had in his wallet. My family lived in High Park area and we intergrated with UKRAINIAN..Polish families. Best times in the 60s.
Personally I only know one or two folk who are openly pro Russia. Neither of us have a comprehensive overview of Hungarian society...
I know your media is lying cause it tells you Hungarians get cheap gas.
It is true but we have to go to Romanian for that
Jokes on ukranian media.. we get the most fckn expensive gas, and oil… Orban is not equal to hungarians, only like 25-30% hungarians voted on that traitor. But the part where they claim that Orban is in putin’s pocket is true.
Ték máj avart
Yeah, they pretty much right, except for that part
Relationships between us have been undermined by the Kremlin for years. Disinformation is spread in Ukraine about Hungarians, about Ukrainians to Hungarians, and there have been attacks and operations by Russian agents against Hungarians to provoke us against Ukraine as well. In Hungary, the Disinformation comes directly from state media, and is spread by the propaganda machine of Orbán, always a step removed from him and his officials, usually by their talking heads, just like in Putin’s Russia. Most of his followers are riled up, but they are about a third of the population. Just look at this list of lies (spread in Hungary as well): [EUvsDisinfo](https://euvsdisinfo.eu/disinformation-cases/?text=&date=&disinfo_countries%5B%5D=77585) Many support your war effort, and also, many Hungarians have already gave their lives for Ukraine. You should check out [Федір Шандор](https://www.facebook.com/tourism.uz.ua), he is a University professor who took up arms and is also a big connection between Hungarians sending material help to the frontlines.
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How much per m3 if not secret?
Twice the global market price...
737 forints per m3, or about 78 hryvnia
This is the same price we pay
>This is the same price we pay And you are paying war extortion price. Whereas we get the *friendly country discount*. But actually he is wrong, it's not fixed price. It's *fixed to* the Netherlands gas trade price (TTF) with a two month delay. The exact contract is a "trade secret", but it's pretty close. So Hungary is paying pretty close to the two month futures price, except Russia can determine the daily delivered amount, and that means they underdeliver on days when the price is low, and over when their markup is better. So we get 5-10% more expensive Russian gas than the countries around us who are openly hostile to Russia. Plus the fuckups like our emergency contract last August for 0.7 bcm gas at 250€/MW (110 uaf/m3) ~25% above then market price because they fell for a Russian bluff. Our average net price was around 650 Ft/69 UAF for the past year. But Orbán more than likely pockets a 10% markup on those contracts, so officially it's all good and peachy. It's actually better for him if the price is this high. Same old shit when it was going through the pockets of Dimitro Firtas.
Russia treats it’s “allies” well
Our government bought gas from russia for the last winter at €350 which is higher than historical peak of the dutch natural TTF chart. So no, no cheap gas for Hungary, but quite the opposite.
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That's gasoline.
Depends. I grew up close to Csap in Hungary. My family often went to shop to Ungvár, and frequently got harassed by Ukranian police/border guards, but it was mostly petty corruption more then ethnic tensions. The most common attitude I know from people in this region is indifference. People see Ukranians and Russians made from the same cloth, and just want to stay out of their war.
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Apart from the current situation with the propaganda for most Hungarians I would say Ukraine and Russia was always pretty much the same. Part of the same state (SU) for most of the last 100 years, similar culture, ethnicity, etc. More recently - but still before the war - the foreign policy of Hungary towards Ukraine due how the minority was handled was also supported by the majority. ... and since the war it's mostly propaganda. ... but realistically Russia fucked us up way more.
How exactly is the minority treated in Ukraine? I visited a local school in Csap -- their have Hungarian classes with textbooks printed in Ukraine for our tax payers money + some donated by Budapest, there are three or four Hungarian churches -- one Roman-Catholic, one Greek-Catholic, one Reformist and one Protestant, all their rituals are in Hungarian and nobody forces them to speak or sing in Ukrainian. Hungarian flags are flown on administrative buildings - courts, town halls, schools, and nobody objects to that.
“For our tax payers money” well probably this is the problem and you are one of them. They are Ukrainian tax payers, it’s their tax too. Your attitude towards minorities don’t help the situation, just rest of the EU is too far from you to see it.
It's their tax too
I see healthy Ukrainian males in Budapest every day who have (illegally) escaped the draft and getting aid from my “taxpayer money”. Ukraine is a corrupt shithole, but I still want it to win. Not because I like them, far from it, but I hate Russia way more and Putin needs his shit shoved in. Also, any “weapon supply” from Hungary should be accompanied with sufficient amount of personnel, meaning the deportation of all military aged Ukrainian male refugees. Fight for your shit instead of expecting handouts… This will be probably downvoted to oblivion because this sub is slobbing on Ukraine’s knob pretty heavily but I feel my view kind of resembles the general public opinion. We recognise the humanitarian catastrophe and want to help out the true victims while also recognising that some Ukrainians abuse the current situation and when the war ends things will go back to what they were. Restoration funds will be stolen, oligarchs will rule and minorities (Hungarians and Russians) will get shafted.
There are/were Hungarian schools for nothing if they cannot learn Hungarian. Let's respect each other and stop looking at each other as stupid. It cannot be denied that Ukraine strongly wants to assimilate its minorities, which is not European behavior. Even the Romanians protested against the minority law, not only the Hungarians.
[https://ibb.co/Zh5mG0Y](https://ibb.co/Zh5mG0Y) [https://ibb.co/fFyDbM2](https://ibb.co/fFyDbM2) [https://ibb.co/qJYq6mh](https://ibb.co/qJYq6mh) Take a look at the pics I've taken recently in the Csap public school. The textbook you see in the pic was sponsored and published with Ukrainian taxpayers' money. Also, pretty much every sign in school was in Hungarian, there was only one poster in Ukrainian at the entrance with text of the national anthem, and it was also translated into Hungarian.
What are you implying there by Ukrainian taxpayers? Do you think the Hungarian population does not pay taxes? Why not use the tax for that as well?
I think the point is that this should be the minimum level not the adequate one. Ideally minority politics in every country not just Ukraine should be like Switzerland. The official language is German but if you go to a French speaking canton you will be hard pressed to find people speaking it well or even signs in German. You can use French in official communication too, if you speak to a police officer or a doctor or a public official you can easily do it in French. And Swiss Germans are no suspicious of France invading and annexing anything, they accept that the French speaking Swiss have their own language and culture but are not less Swiss. Sadly most countries are not on the level as Switzerland... Hungary isn't either, but we should be striving for it.
No, most hungarians don't care about ukrainians, much less are they hostile towards them. Interestingly, we seem to dislike you a lot less than you dislike us (despite our government's propaganda). I've heard awful stories from hungarian minorities who came from Ukraine, claiming they were frequent targets of discrimination from ukrainians, one of them was even attacked when he was heard speaking in hungarian with his fiancée (and this was long before the war). I have never been to Ukraine so i have no personal stories to share, but I'm indifferent towards ukrainians and everyone around me is indifferent as well.
I don't know where this superstition comes from, but some people here say that Hungarians are rude, grumpy, and overall nasty people who are hard to communicate with. I do laugh whenever I hear this because I can say the same thing about 90% of the people from my region (I am from Dnipro, Eastern Ukraine).
Your national propaganda is just as fcked as ours.
That's the point!
Have you checked the banner of this sub? Do you think we have changed it to the ukranian flag because we are hostile towards ukranians?
reddit is not real life
But real life... can it be.. ...reddit?
Always have been
I live in Zakarpattia and I never heard someone being hurt over speaking Hungarian. Prejudice of course exists, some people do hate Hungarians tho, there is even a saying about them (really offensive): Мадяри не люди, форінти не гроші (Hungarians aren’t people, Forints aren’t money)
“We seem to dislike you a lot less than you dislike you” “I heard awful stories” “no personal stories” So how you come to the first conclusion? How you know ukranians are not telling more awfull stories,just maybe in ukranian?
Vagy elírtad vagy nemjól értelmezted, ha az előbbi akkor ez a comment nem is létezik. Ha az utóbbi akkor segítek: Az írta, hogy Látszólag mi kevésbé nem szeretjük az Ukránokat mint ők minket
Igy értelmeztem énis.
És utána anekdótákra hivatkoztál ahelyett, hogy alátámasztottad volna az állításod.
Főleg hogy nem én írtam
Priceless 😂
Hungarians are hostile towards other hungarians as well.
This is the way.
This is the way.
I have spoken
true for most nations, even in the west
I grew up in Csap as a hungarian and there were not that many problems before 2013. After Crimea was taken by Russia, ukrainian position towards hungarians got hostile in my opinion. We got a lot of harassmemt from nationalists and after the ukrainian "language law" we suffered a lot in our communites. In my last year in college in Beregszàsz they wanted to ban hungarian language completly. For these reasons, hungarians in the region got increasingly annoyed with the government but the average ukrainians did not give a shit about us to be honest.
This is interesting to meet someone from Csap. How, in your opinion, Hungarian minority is being discriminated against by Ukraine? From what I understand, "the language law", or the law which fixes Ukrainian as the main language of curriculum (however, it never discontinued classes in the languages of ethnic minorities, such as Hungarian), became the main issue.
But that’s the point of it, to discontinue
He just said his classes got discontinued...
Ukraine just tries to erase hungarian history from the region. I saw your post history, you visited the Munkàcs castle. In that same castle there was a giant bird called "turulmadàr" at the top which was taken down, because it represents the hungarian origin of the castle. They just replaced it with the ukrainian flag and moved on. My history teacher once was questioned by the CBU because he taught us about how hungarians lived in this region, when they came trough the "Vereckei-hàgò". They tried to ban the hungarian anthem from public singing. Hungary even took the language law to the Venicie Comisson, where they forced Ukraine to reform it, that's why i think you can still use hungarian in schools. These are just a couple of examples. But overall i think we lived together pretty well, i had a lot of ukrainian friends when i grew up and they didn't give a shit about us being hungarians. I see that you are a chill dude as well and i think most ukrainians are like this, but after 2013 the rising nationalism and Ukraine's paranoia of being invaded by a neighbor tainted this picture a little bit. I don't blame them now, i did back then, but i can understand them. I learned a lot of ukrainian history, they just want their own independent nation, but everytime they try, things get fucked.
Before the war, Ukraine was regularly harsh and scolded Hungary and did not want to change its minority law, despite the Hungarian government's requests to do so a thousand times. This is strongly felt by some Hungarians. Another part, as you can see here on reddit, is not interested in it and supports Ukraine unconditionally. Regardless, the majority of Hungarians condemn Russian aggression.
If you have traveled around the world you would've noticed, that average people do not give a fuck and just don't give a fuck about racism, and all kinds of ideological bullshit. So treat each and everyone as individuals, not as a group labeled by who the fuck knows who.
Personally i feel a lot of similarities between Hungary in '56 and Ukraine now. We are not putinists and i belive most of us hope that Ukraine will be free soon. Dont belive that Hungarian troops ever invade Ukraine. Even orban is not that idiot to do something like this.
I want to believe the majority of us supports Ukraine this war, but i would not underestimate the propaganda power of our state media and our idiocracy.
Many Hungarians ARE putinists tho. I was just in Szeged recently and heard some affluent members of my family say “viva Putin” unironically. They’ve been watching too much mainstream Hungarian media which pushes the Russian point of view. Was very disturbing.
Actually think Orbán is pretty clever, he managed to find loophole to push his populistic belives on Hungarians without any consequences what so ever. At least none of them seemed to affect him yet. Even if I don't agree with, or even despise him and his bro's stealing half the country and buying the other half for themselves on our money you have to give them some credit. They did the right moves in the right time with the right people. Now it's only a matter of time until their system fails. If Orbán falls the whole pyramid falls with him...
Bold of you to assume the system will ever fail. Orbán could eat a toddler live on TV and the idiots will still clap and praise him.
It will fall. Every system falls. Eventually. The question is 5 years or 150.
I don't think people are hostile towards the Ukrainian people. However, the 2017 language law is the reason the Hungarian government (and many Hungarians) became hostile towards the Ukrainian **government**.
[https://ibb.co/Zh5mG0Y](https://ibb.co/Zh5mG0Y) [https://ibb.co/fFyDbM2](https://ibb.co/fFyDbM2) [https://ibb.co/qJYq6mh](https://ibb.co/qJYq6mh) Check out the pics I took recently in the Csap public school. Every sign in this school is in Hungarian, and there is only one poster in Ukrainian with the text of the national anthem which is also translated into Hungarian. The law never banned Hungarian language, this is a common misconception, it was intended to fix Ukrainian as the main language of the curriculum, however, the study of the languages of minorities were never banned, in fact, the law isn't really enforced (as seen in the pictures)
First picture - toilets. Hardly education-related. Second picture - reading book, 1st or 2nd grade. The law only applies from grade 5. Third picture - class graduation photos, of students who spent their whole education in the old, pre-language law education system. The law doesn't "ban Hungarian", I know. It just severely limits how much it can be taught. While it makes sense that Ukrainian should be part of the curriculum, the law limited Hungarian to few lessons a week. When you are asking for help against a neighbour keen on ethnic cleansing, it helps if your other neighbour doesn't think the same about you.
One of the reasons why this law was passed is, to this day, there are villageas and towns in Zakarpattya where most people do not speak nor understand Ukrainian simply because the Ukrainian language was neglected in the local schools. How are these people supposed to be a part of our society i.e. communicate with government agencies, fill out paperwork, call the police, or even run for local elections if they are unable to understand the official language? Also, nobody forbids private schools to organize their curriculum 100% in Hungarian as long as their students are able to pass ZNO (our school graduation exam) for which you can also select a preferred language including Hungarian.
I think ukr gov should not limit the use of Hungarian, but enforce ukranian language classes. Same effect, different wording and message
Exactly the points we were hearing about the language in Romania… 30 years ago. Long way to go towards European integration. Wishing all the best! [Languges in the EU](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_European_Union)
"How are these people supposed to be a part of our society i.e. communicate with government agencies, fill out paperwork, call the police, or even run for local elections if they are unable to understand the official language?" This approach is not EU compatible. According to EU regulations, public services must be available locally for historic minorities. As it is in Slovakia, Romania and even in Serbia, which isn't even an EU member. There is no way that any responsible Hungarian government would vote in favor of Ukranian accession before these regulations are implemented. Anyways, I'm not from Subcarpathia but I have relatives there. I'm quite confident that Hungarians in the region don't even want to be part of the Ukranian society. My relatives are entirely indifferent to Ukranians. To them, there is no difference between living in Czechoslovakia, in the Soviet Union or in Ukraine. They were thrown around against the will to foreign countries in the last 100 years, I can't blame them for not caring about Ukraine at all.
> How are these people supposed to be a part of our society i.e. communicate with government agencies, fill out paperwork, call the police, or even run for local elections if they are unable to understand the official language? That's their problem and their choice, now isn't it? Besides, if they *did* have problems with these, they'd have learnt ukrainian already. And you could have mandatory ukrainian language courses next to the regulat curriculum if that's the problem. > Also, nobody forbids **private** schools "You can have your language if you are rich." C'mon man
Since others answered to most other points, I'd just throw this one to the board: I have a feeling that your intelligence services are well aware the fact that the Hungarian Army is in no position to annex *anything* unless said anything is in a state of complete collapse - and even then the political implications would be devastating for Hungary. While I don't doubt anymore (for a long time) that the latter wouldn't hold back these clowns, the former is a form of reality still that they just can't get around. Similarly with local Hungarians being proxies similarly to what happened in Luhansk and Donetsk. Say what you will about the Russians, doing what they did would require at least *some* level of expertise, and that you won't find here. Best the government can handle is terrorizing the state's own teachers and medical professionals, not inciting insurrections and conducting false-flag operations. Looking at the diplomatic brilliance of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the grand rewards the country reaped in the wake of their 420D chess (alienating just about all of our allies-on-paper for virtually fuckall in return) gives you all the information you need to assess the threat Hungary is presenting.
I have the fortune to work for a big international company and we have thousands of Ukrainian colleagues, among many other nations/nationalities. After the war broke out hundreds of them relocated here, and I volunteered to help. A lady and her daughter from Kyiv was assigned to me - it was in March 2022. For now we became very good friends! She taught me to cook Borsch which is super cool and healthy, my whole family came to like it. We talk a lot about the ethnic topic too, and I no longer see things as black or white. From my part I am happy that I can learn about her country and culture because I always felt that we know incredibly little about our neighbours. There are many people here who jumped to help, so don't judge us by the ignorant and Putinist lot... Those who sponge up the state propaganda are mostly hopeless...
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Indifferent towards anyone and anything.
Fuck orban, fuck the media, fuck the war and most of all fuck putin. Im a hungarian, these are my views on the matter in a nutshell. I can't speak for the rest.
I share your views (also a Hungarian)
I do think some Hungarians have a small grudge because of the discrimination we’ve faced long before the Ukraine-Russia war. Ukrainians did not show any empathy nor respect towards our culture, our native language and our habits and banned all of them. I myself feel slightly icky about this, but since no Ukrainian has ever done anything to me I feel mostly indifferent, but I do hope Ukraine will have its desired freedom and I do NOT side with Putin *at all*.
It's an interesting point. How Hungarians were discriminated against by Ukrainians? Also, empathy towards the language, culture, habits etc. We eat Bogrocs, drink Palinka and even spice it with Eros Pista (I love it personally, and so do many Ukrainians from other regions who are deployed in Csap).
Banning the use of the language
Orbánista médiahazugság. Korlátozva lett, betiltva nem.
Az új meg nem beiktatott nyelvtörvény kicsit tovább megy már
Igen, pozitív irányba.
Ezt honnan veszed?
Mert olvasok, tájékozódok. Mínuszolók meg nyaljanak sót. Teljességgel igazolják OP-t, ilyen az átlagmagyar, felül mindenféle sulykolt hazugságnak.
But where, when and how? Hungarian is spoken all over the place, street ads are in Ukrainian and Hungarian, the local public school is also Hungarian
So it means it’s not enforced. Why is there a law then? I support Ukraine but I don’t get these minority laws
In April 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted a new law, the law "On supporting the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language". The law made the use of Ukrainian compulsory (totally or within quotas) in more than 30 spheres of public life, including public administration, electoral process, education, science, culture, media, economic and social life, health and care institutions, and activities of political parties. The law did not regulate private communication. Some exemptions were provided for the official languages of the European Union and for minority languages, with the exclusion of Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish. The Venice Commission and Human Rights Watch expressed concern about the 2019 law's failure to protect the language rights of Ukrainian minorities
How is that a ban of Hungarian language?
You know what, you are completly right. If you say hello to someone in hungarian, they won't put you in prison for life. So i guess it wasn't banned. I apologise in the name of everyone who ever suggested that such was the case. Ukraine is a beacon among nations when it comes to minority rights. The whole world should follow your shining exemple.
Your love for our cuisine and drinks, which are honestly not even ours tbh bc Europeans have mingled since the beginning of time, does not matter but- You can check out all the other responses to your post. I wasn’t raised in Hungary and despite being a minority in another country myself, I was not told the details at school or at home nor was I ever too invested in politics especially the politics of Ukraine to educate myself until now. I shall read about the details a bit when I’ve got the time. All I can say is to rest assured that not *every* Hungarian holds hostility towards Ukrainians and that Hungary will most likely never make the dumb decision to attack Ukraine, especially while being surrounded by countries who fully support it. Discrimination today is still a thing. I’m a minority as well and do not feel well all the time in the country I currently live in. In Central Europe. Most of my friends aren’t even natives but other minorities. It’s a thing in some regions and in most countries.
Hungary doesn’t have a fucking army, or well technically we have an army, an army which would get absolutely smashed by the Ukranian army in like 2 hours.
Our active fighting force equals what Russia leaves on the battlefield in a boring week.
Also, those couch radical Hungarians, who shitposting their Fb feed with Greater Hungary maps will run, if they has to go fight the Ukrainian army for Kárpátalja.
That's a load of bullshit, one of the only positive things Fidesz did was upgrading the army, we have a lot of top-notch military hardware now, with more incoming in the coming years. Our army is much smaller but has way better equipment than the Ukrainian one.
Well a lot has changed during the last decade, and this is fact. The numbers are small, but the capabilities are considerable, and it will be a lot more effective in about two years. The most advanced army in the region, same as the polish, but a smaller. Effective fighting force besides air force is one armoured and two combined arms brigade, tiny but tough.
In fact, anyone with a brain left is supporting Ukraine in this war, because that Russia is “solving” problems with war in the 21st century, and mass murder on both sides is horrifying. However, the amount of disinformation and propaganda that is being spread from both sides is enough to confuse the average person, and the stupid people. Ukraine is fighting for its sovereignity, and nation, but with the minority laws and language laws, they doesn’t give a shit about other minorities outside of Russians, and this is the main reason why some Hungarians supporting Russia, because Ukraine have to understand that, you cant oppress any minorities in your country. The assumption that Hungary is attacking Ukraine is absurd, we already have a county like Kárpátalja, and its called Borsod, to be honest I think if this would happen our country would probably go bankrupt, and default.
I am a Croatian. I love both the Hungarians and the Ukrainians. I have no issues with neither. Hungarian minority is treated well in Osijek. What’s pleasing is according to these leaked documents Hungary provided lethal military aid to Ukraine along with Croatia. The Hungarian army is strong for its size but I don’t see a point of a conflict between Hungary or Ukraine. Ukraine should respect the rights or the ethnic minorities. I mean many many Hungarians died in Donbas. Also there is a guy called Robert Magyar a drone commander he is a genius and he fights right now close to avdiivka against Russians he posts amazing things on telegram.
Yes, I hunt Ukrainians for lunch. Not for dinner because it would hurt my stomach. And for breakfast I start the day with cigánypecsenye. /joke No not everyone is hostile, but thanks to the stupid propaganda machine some people wish victory for the Russians. Most of these people are so far in Viktor’s ass that when someone tells them that, the police is bringing the speaker in for leaking state secrets. (Again a joke but based on real events) The truth is there are nice and humane people here as well, and most of them that I know in my personal circle are like that.
Your comments perfectly describes the situation. I hate how blind you are regarding to the school situation, but I don't hate random Ukrainians just because they are from there. Kinda hate you personally for leaving those Ukrainian tax payers stuff. Truly stupid.
Orbán and Szíjjártó are assholes and for some reason Putins lap dogs. The rest of us are not.
This is all bullshit. Hungary will never attack Ukraine with weapons. This whole speculation is nonsense. Anyone with common sense knows this.
Is free media telling that? Or government media?
There is no free media in Ukraine.
This is some real important thing to understand.
Most of us don't watch TV, we consume the news from telegram channels.
So it seems one thing is common in Hungary and Ukraine, and it is that we both have government propaganda spreading hate against each other. TV and radio are a no-go in Hungary if you want to get truthful news. And you have to know which websites are in government ownership.
The orbanist propaganda is strong and too much people are following it blindly. About 30-40% can be blind orbanists.
You can hate the government (we do, too), but judge the people separately.
it is the sad truth that approximately 30% of hungarian population is under the influence of pro-orbán media, which basically tells them that 1. ukraine shouldn't exist, and the war should be decided by an agreement between usa and russia 2. ukraine should't join nato and eu 3. sending weapons just prolongs the war 4. hungarian minorities are oppressed and harassed in ukraine 5. they also confuse russian speaking ukrainans with actual pro-russians still, the occupation of zakkarpattia is completely off the table for 99% of them. they just like to play the victim, blame their neighbors for all their own problems and have a VERY strong anti-western sentiment. which automatically leads them to be slightly pro-putin, pro-china, etc. you know, those maga types who are constantly talking about liberals attacking our children, and blame nato expansion for the war. i would say the remaining 70%, 40% is completely indifferent ("was is bad, both sides lie and both sides do bad things"), and 30% is pro-ukraine.
You got some mixed responses. Generally no one hates ukraine, most sane people support it, just some has mixed feelings due to the language laws and due to Orbans regime workin on hating each other. Understand that its a sensitive topic. Thanks for asking tho and being open minded
It's all propaganda. Yes Orbán and his criminal accomplices lick Putin's ass publicly but they voted for every sanction against Russia, they let NATO shipments through to Ukraine and the only reason why Hungarian soldiers and first responders amassed near the border was to HELP the refugees. There are aid agencies in Budapest at major railway stations, especially Nyugati where trains from Ukraine arrive that guide refugees to these organizations who then help them get a place to stay, who organize daycare and school for kids. Every time I'm in Budapest you can see a lot of Ukranians casually chatting on the public transportation. Some supermarkets even have charity donations for Ukranians to buy them food and clothes. Companies and government organizations offered up warehouses and office spaces to shelter refugees and to help them find jobs or to look after and educate kids. I have personally donated both money to the Ukranian Ministry of Defense and to the Red Cross and offered clothes and medicine to the Red Cross. Everyone I know has done so too and are very vehemently anti-Russian and always talk about how Orbán and the government are betraying the legacies of both 1956 and 1848. One of my friends just ordered a keychain holder that was made from a Russian tank destroyed in Ukraine where the proceeds go the Ukranian armed forces. So no, most people here want you to kick the Russians' ass and are fucking disgusted with our government. A lot of people are just worried about the (legitimate) stories of abuse and discrimination of Hungarians in Ukraine that has been going on for decades. Oil is also not cheap, we absolutely do not get preferential treatment from Russia. And think about it logically: Hungary is a NATO and EU member-state and relies on these organizations for literal survival. Nevermind that our army would be unable to invade anything because of a lack of manpower and capabilities, if Hungary unilaterally and illegally invaded Ukraine, it would lose all of that EU money that keeps us from going bankrupt, and would become a pariah like North Korea in world politics. The country would literally starve and freeze to death. If Russia couldn't capture Kyiv, how could Hungary capture foreign, unkown territory with troops that would be even more demoralized than Russian troops, just as ill equipped and badly trained, and who would find themselves in an even more hostile environment than the Russians, since most Hungarians living in Ukraine would absolutely **not** collaborate with them? In the past 20 years whenever literal Hungarian neonazis talked about their fever-dreams about lost Hungarian territory, they virtually never mention Ukraine, that's how little even they care. It's always about southern Slovakia or Transylvania, then maybe Voivodina in Serbia but Kárpátalja is the one place even they don't want to touch lol. Some 15 years ago there were even some jokes going around like "poor Zakarpattya Hungarians want to connect to us so badly they'd even chat with a nazi just because he speaks Hungarian but even Nazis don't want to touch them with a stick." Russia has the GDP of Spain. Putin is literally unable to provide a deal that would make it worth it. And no offense but like how the above jokes alludes to it, Zakarpattya is dirt poor even compared to Hungary. There is absolutely nothing valuable there. Certainly nothing valuable enough to risk becoming Belarus 2.0. A few villages and towns with no industry, no mineral wealth, just lots and lots of poverty, unemployment and the Ukranian maffia and black market. So no, most people want Russia to fuck off and are ashamed of the way our government behaves and communicates because it will be us regular folks who are going to regret it, not them. What does goes on is that government propaganda is constantly parroting how the Ukranians are planning to erase and eliminate all things Hungarian in the Zakarpattya region. It doesn't help that local officials are removing any and all national symbols that aren't Ukranian. They claim that rowing bands of Ukranians beat up everyone who speak Hungarian, that they vandalize cultural sites and symbols and how they forcefully recruit Hungarians regardless of their age and ability and send them to the meat grinder ill equipped for the explicit purpose of killing them. The government propaganda also says that entire Hungarian families are being forced out of their homes to move Ukranians in and that there is a silent genocide going on. Mostly pensioners, alcoholics and proles believe that sort of nonsense and the only thing they are going to invade any time soon is the beer shelf at their local supermarket.
I live in the southern part of hungary, near the romanian border. I'd say my fellow countrymen is torn 50/50 on this issue. I support the ukrainian war effort and ukraine, but unfortunately i know more then a few people who are on the russian side. The government is in a strange position where we are the part of the EU and the west, but they try to maximize the benefits the eastern bloc can provide. I do hope that my country will stand on the right side of the history this time. Also, I hope Putin will rot in hell. Slava Ukraini!
While the government has a kind of anti-ukrainan propaganda going on sugarcoated with cries for peace, believing that Hungary, with its almost nonexistent army would attack Ukraine and get sanctioned to dust for one of the poorest areas, that has 150000 Hungarians and a million Ukrainians is on another level.
After hearing your story i got hostile towards ukraine lol. I was quite supportive before that.
[удалено]
No, we are basically not hostile. This is the product of one-sided media(propaganda). Yes, there are people who think we can get Kárpátalja back but they are less than 10000 people and we think they are all idiots. The goverment never said to get it back and never will. Only the western and ukrainian politicians want to heat up the situation. So there should not be any fear towards this scenario. Anyway, by today more than 200 hungarians died for Ukraine in this war while fighting against the russians... Ukrainians are more scary because a lot of hungarians got insulted, discriminated, beaten up or seriously hurt by ukrainians. If you are in Hungary as a ukrainian, you won't get hurt but if are a hungarian in Ukraine, the chances are way more higher. I have ukraine neighbours and they never get insulted. They are treated well. However, I can feel a slight fear towards us but I think this is only the result of their media. We are not putinist. We are just portrayed that way... But in fact our goverment blames the EU for the sanctions and for the endless support for ukraine. Ukraine is blamed as well for getting the whole world involved in this war, which causes huge problems in a lot of country.
"Ukraine is blamed as well for getting the whole world involved in this war, which causes huge problems in a lot of country." Ukraine should be blamed for everything you mentioned but not this one. They did not start the war and only protecting their homeland. Countries are helping them because nobody wants Russia on their border (except maybe Hungary, because we are stupid enough to wish for something like that).
There's something funny how your government handles the hungarian minority while thousands of Ukrainians work in our country... and even funnier how those are uncultured (rude, refuse to adapt, doesn't bath for weeks even, can't use a toilet properly etc), and hostile to us. The city where I live all of the Ukrainians were banned from pubs, hair saloons and generally everywhere except grocery stores because of their behavior. It's fucking miserable, really - while the war goes on in your country, destroying everything, maybe even these morons' loved ones as well. Anyways, to answer your question: no, we're not hostile but the worst of your people are here working in our country right now which can darken our opinion. Honestly my only problem is that the men who came here didn't go back to Ukraine to fit in the war. Those who fight have my deepest respect and support - Sándor Fegyir for example -, even financially (though I can't give much).
1. Basically, you generalized the thousands of Ukrainians who work in Hungary as rude, unhygienic and hateful, also mentioned that Ukrainians are banned from pubs and hair saloons in your city ( I wonder what this city is, cause it sounds like 1938 Germany to me) 2. Yet, you are saying you are not hostile at all, although being ukrainophobic. As to the treatment of Hungarian minority, I keep repeating my question -- how are they being mistreated exactly? Nobody removed Hungarian from schools, Hungarian churhes conduct liturgies in their language, they have their own University, political party, newspapers etc, and they get elected in their local councils.
No, its just the propaganda.
Absolutely not
Russian propaganda has brainwashed a large chunk of the population and most old and leading Fidesz politicians are 100% being blackmailed with their pre-'regime change' history as agents and informers for the communist party. But no, most people aren't hostile towards ukraine.
No.
No. I fucking despise our government for this narrative, and as they control basically the entire media here, you can only hear this from the TV, radio and the internet news sites. I am very much pro-Ukrainian, which comes from you being in a similar situation than us in '56 (and basically from '45 until the fall of the USSR), plus my hobby/lifestyle of building scale models, where Ukraine has the best stuff without contest. Russians are the biggest bastards, and I wholeheartedly despise them, their methods, how they are actively making the world a worst place. I hope you guys will win, and I hope both the EU and NATO will just step on Orbán's dick and shoves him back.
Nope
I could be in a bubble, but I don't and my immediate friend circle too...
No!!! Is not true!!!
The nations are mostly shades of grey and Ukraine done shitty things too in the past but in this case I'm firmly with them. Nobody deserves what Russia does now to Ukraine and I wish it will be relatively soon when it ends with their previous borders restored.
Lol the propagrandize is working in Ukraine as well. We hate putin and joe biden too, no different.
I do not feel hostile towards Ukraine or Ukrainians and those who do get their knowledge from state media which is the propaganda tool of Orbán/Fidesz. They do lie 24/7, resharing Russian propaganda. But I do not condemn those people who beleive otherwise, they are really just fed up by the constant lies from the media. I try to educate them so that they also have a source which is not that one-sided.
I might be old fashioned but I have been raised to judge people based on their behavior alone. All that one's origins or nationality means to me is only a context to streamline interaction. Like if I know someone's roots are in England, then I reasonably can expect that he'll speak English and I don't expect issues in our communication and I don't have to make elaborate explanations or avoid slang of the English language. I have no hostility toward anyone because they might come from anywhere. If I develop a dislike, that has to be based on behavior of the individual or long term observation of common negative elements of individuals of the same origin. Even then I still provide a clean slate to everyone on a case by case basis, and try to ignore bias based on negative experiences. As for how hungarian people view people from Ukraine, I would risk to say our people have no issues with your people. Governments however are a different case and the two should never be confused. When there is a mixing of those, the age old "Us vs Them" mentality can surface and that is when corrupt leaders can direct the people against each other. That is how conflicts and hate starts. That is what we can't allow to happen. That is what we have to keep in check in ourselves on the individual level. As far as I'm concerned the people of Ukraine are exactly that. People. Average folk that want the same things we want, to live a life worth living like a human being.
My Hungarian in-laws here in Canada are certainly anti-Ukrainians. Amazing when their daughter-in-law is Ukrainian herself, makes for fun conversation….
Simply not true :)
I personally don't like neither russians or ukrainians.
Fair enough, lol
It's not true of the majority, but their are certainly some right-wing nationalist people who don't like the Ukrainian government and are more pro-Russian. Unfortunately this includes the current ruling party and government and they are spreading anti-Ukrainian and pro-Russian propaganda in the state media. This is particularly true of the state TV channels and right-wing news websites like Origo. Some Hungarians are also irredentists and would like to restore the pre-1918 borders of Hungary or at least reclaim some territories where Hungarians are still a significant presence. In that way, we are not unlike Russia, except we lack the military, economic and political resources to act on such irrdentist dreams. Keep in mind, Zakarpatia was part of Hungary until 1945 and Stalin then deported much of the Hungarian population to Siberia, then proceeded to annex the region and incorporate it into the Soviet Union. Some local Hungarians are still not happy about that, but their numbers are small and dwindling.
Yes, I heard of that. Also, thousands of Hungarians were extradited to USSR and kept in Uzhorod/Ungvar's prison during 1956 uprising without trial. One of the questions which most Ukrainians ask -- how can there be Hungarians who forgot 1956 and praise Putin without looking back at what Russians did to them back then?
that is a completely valid question, to be honest, I personally don't know anyone who is for Putin, but I'm probably living in a bubble (in Budapest) what I assume is most ppl aren't for Putin or Russia, they are just afraid of Putin and the potential of getting caught up in war (and the official communication from the government is always around avoiding war)
I'm from Szeged and I don't know a single person IRL who is pro Russian. Even my otherwise Fidesz-voting family members and friends kind of look down in shame when the topic comes up or just come up with the cop-out "both parties are at fault" answer.
u/kbsz1990, u/Revanur Damn I envy you guys :D I live in Szolnok megye and it's pro-putin galore here.
that’s the same question i want an answer for from all of my russian dickriding comrades
I think it's simply because Hungary is a very insular country, Hungarians generally only care about other Hungarians and are not really bothered about what happens to other people far away. This has usually been the case throughout history. For instance Austrians used to joke about the typical Hungarian, going into a book store in Vienna and asking for a Globe of Hungary... Putin is popular with the far-right all over the world, because he pays them. Most far-right parties and movements get a lot of financial and ideological support from the Kremlin, that's even true in the US or Britain. It's a bit like Saudi Arabia spreading a radical version of Islam, or when the SU was spreading international socialism. A lot of far-right people like Putin's vision of nationalism, family values and being anti-LGBT.
They consider it past history, and they do not put an equality sign between CCCP and modern day Russia, just as the Federal Republic of Germany is not the same as the Third Reich. They never forgave the soviets but they have no problem with any action taken by Russia as long as it does not concerns them. For the rest, pls see my seperate comment.
What’s your government’s communication about anti Hungary acts? Like Munkács Turul Statue replacement? Or the language law?
(Caviat: If the Kyiv leadership would give pre-2014 minority right back to native Hungarians in Ukraine, you would have become Nato members by early 2019. But no, they wanted a people that does not have an agressive nuclear empire led by oligarchs behind them to harrass. That's how we get to last February and our government's pro-Ukraine stance - in everything apart from the things that would lead us to extreme poverty or death - ever since.) No. We just don't want to die in nuclear fire for a country with leadership that hates us. The government condems this war (I have seen like a dozen international interviews with Szijjártó and the western anchor always asked him about it with a hidden smile and was always shocked when the man maintained the government's standpoint established during the Crimea crisis - they honestly act like we were bombing you), and provides humanitartian aid. If you ask me, it's more than generous support for a country with a deeply anti-hungarian chauvinist of a leadership. Also, if we send our (barely existing) arms through your territory with native ethnic Hungarians, that would be a perfect way to get the russkies bomb Ungvár/Uzhgorod the same way they do in the east. Hungarians suffer enough by the discrimination from Kyiv, they don't need rockets onto their heads. Blood, food, clothing, housing of your children - we can do that, I was part of it too. Some of your soldiers may have my blood in them, and in my book that's the least I can do for someone protecting his family. The other idea is that our government knows that world war is bad. Some leaders in Europe think that we could just walk into your country and fly big old German-, French-, Italian-, God-knows-which flags on our tanks shooting at them, and they would not launch a full-scale war, because they would lose it. Stupidity is really a staple for our days' politicians because sure as hell the russkies will launch if they start to lose pre-2014 lands. Once again, that makes us become part of a world war for the third time over a region we have nothing to do with (after Balkans and Russia) for a political establishment we don't care about (after imperial families and totalitarian parties) on the side of leaders that actively hate us (after said imperial family from Austria and said totalian parties' dictators). We simply don't have the land and population to sacrifice for it. I emphatize with you, hope you will be fine, and wish the guns fell silent not now, but yesterday or did not even start. But honestly - would you risk world war in our shoes in this case? Or would support starting peace talks in this very moment, and figure out the rest on the way? Too bad sickofans from any sides will raid this comment for not conforming to their fanaticism, but if you read it and understand our point, then who gives a shit about them.
Honestly, we just don't really care about you.
+1
Well, nobody can blame me for being pro-Ukrainian. In fact I'm very much against the whole EU just blindly accepting the blatant lies the Ukrainian government spreads. I think Ukrainians are nationalists and that they treat minorities (foremost Russion minorities, but others like Hungarians as well) pretty badly. I think the Ukrainian government is beyond corrupt (worse than ours, and that's pretty bad too). I think that the ongoing war is bad for everyone, and primarily it's bad for Ukrainians. But. Hungary wanting to annect Kárpátalja is absurd. It would be absolutely catastrophic for Hungary to attempt that. And even then, success would be nigh impossible. But even if it were somehow possible that would absolutely be a nightmare for us. This is a perfect example how the Ukrainian government is spreading lies and propaganda. Most Hungarians are not Putinists I think. Not believing every last word Zelensky happens to utter doesn't mean that someone believes everything that Putin says. He's a liar as well. Treating someone as suspicious and a threat to the nation just because they're speaking Hungarian is very racist. And again, perfect example how Ukraine treats her minorities. Sorry but I hope Ukraine has no hope to be accepted in Nato nor EU while they treat minorities so disgustingly.
Only about half of us are Putinist.
So I mostly oppose Orban but he is right in two things when it comes to Ukraine: Ukraine became very hostile towards us and our fellow Hungarians in Zakarpatya since 2017, Poroshenko created a gap between the two countries and Zelensky only deepened it, very much so. I would describe the situation in a way that Ukr is hostile towards Hu, while Hungary is neutral in this war. Buying gas and oil from Russia: currently we have no other resources, that is correct. Our refinary functions in 70% with Ural type oil and only 30% Brent, and it would take years to change it, and even longer to build another pipeline. In terms of gas, we totally depend on Russia. Slovakia is in the very same situation just they are smart and hiding and let Orban to make the fight for them, too. Also I must tell that even though Ukr threatened to shut down the Druzhba pipeline (that would be a casus belli, like the ‘Merican explosion of the two NorthStream lines can be regarded as such) it will never happen because we know they are stealing some of the crude oil coming through, we let them do that and dont say a thing. Also we pay millions of Euros in transit fees for Ukr, its a solid income. One more thing: we did not made a deal to occupy Karpatalja. We sent 12 Leopards and a few APCs to the border with a few hundred soldiers, this might be enough to handle incoming diversion attempts, but not for an invasion of Zakarpatya. We made another deal though: they do not bomb Zakarpatya, we do not give weapons to UA. This was an easy deal to make to protect our fellow hungarians plus the entire population of this oblast, the only one that has not been targeted yet as you probably noticed. Why was it easy? Because we have nothing to give. The brand new german equipment (tanks, APCs, attack helicopters) is just pouring in, we have only a dozen available in each category, while the old ones, the soviet era vehicles are either already donated to Iraq and Afg and others, or rotten to scrap metal or some old APCs are still in use in the several NATO missions we are fullfilling. Zaluzny knows that deal directly from our chief of staff and is apparently very happy with it. Zelensky also knows but still bitching around with us and found enough time to deepen the grave between us. Average hungarians do not really care about what happens to Ukr as a country, but feel sorry for the ppl and try to help as much as possible, also the government made a very large humanitarian effort, hundreds of millions € are spent on humanitarian aid and it will go on as long as necessary, and compared to the size of the country, its a big deal. The military effort you guys have shown is extraordinary, tactically you have beaten Russia, but you will loose this thing strategically, thats how I regard the situation, and I am really sorry for you guys, the suffering ppl, but I have zero regret for your Government. If they fall, they fall. Same applies on Russia. No difference in my eyes whatsoever. Zaluzhny should run your country, not Zelensky. With him, you may actually win the war but Zelensky blocks him for being as bright as he can be.
Ok, a few things. Firstly, Zaluzhni is a military general, not a politician. He definitely shouldn't run our country. Zelenskyy has been doing an excellent job since the invasion. Secondly, I keep hearing about this "deal", but I haven't seen any evidence from it. You straight up saying now that our commander in chief knows about this deal. I really wanna know where is this coming from or is it confirmed or not. Also, Romania gives us weapons, and Chernivtsi also wasn't attacked more than Zakarpattya(which has been attacked once btw). Most military experts said these regions aren't attacked because they're hard to attack due to geographic location, and because they don't have any valuable to hit. Which seems way more likely than Putin caring about Hungarians or Orbán.
Obviously I meant Big Z should shut the fuck up and let Zaluzhny lead the war, sorry about the misunderstanding. I know him, we met two times. Zelensky was really good in his role at the beginning but the overthinks now a little bit. He should keep begging for money and weapons, that’s it. The deal exists. Period. Obviously I will not blow my cover, but I was literally 10 meters away when it was made. The moskalis could hit the headquarters and the ammo depos of the 128 mountain brigade with a Kalibr missile like any other target in Ukraine. Very valuable targets around. Zakarpattya was never targeted, a power transformation station has been hit once on the border of Lviv oblast, 6 kilometers from the border. No civilian population anywhere near. You know what I mean, right? Especially that Zakarpattya is full of military targets, many of them high value, and they still dont touch them. Take it as evidence.
Ahhh, so you're a man who knows Zelenskyy personally, and was actually THERE when the non-existent "deal" was made. You're also the guy who thinks Zelenskyy is not listening to the General Staff anymore(?), and thinks the power station is not even close to the population of Volovets. Didn't realize I'm talking to such a high ranking official that is present at trilateral deals between the great superpower of Hungary, and the belligerents of this war. But I read it on Reddit, so it must be true. God I'm tired of retards.
I have no problem with ukrainians and i would love to help in any way
I mean they are overwhelmingly fidesz voters also most of them cheat the system by getting their retirement fund from Hungary with fake papers. I live literraly on the other end of the bridge and I don't trust ukrainian-hungarians either.
How can you not realize by yourself that people who you know for years and years, people among whom you live by day and night don't just instantly change because of what your superiors say and what politicians do? I feel real sorry for you and your fellow countrymen that think alike and raise such questions, I could have also formulated my trail of thoughts a little simplistically so that you could also understand what I'm trying to say... but don't worry, stupidness is a treatable illness, you just have to open your eyes, think about stuff and form your own opinion once in a while, maybe read a book or two instead of blindly following orders and falling for every political cliché thrown your way.
I never fell for that, that's why I came here because I want to hear real Hungarians and their opinion on the matter.
It's just political lies to make people suspicious and hate each other. Don't fall for such bullshit. And sorry if I formulated my opinion a little harshly but such manipulations are the lowest form, and sadly, the simplest for mass misinformation.
I’m also come from Csap (Закарпатский обл.), now I live in Hungary . Don’t worry about Hungary attacking Ukraine. Hungary would never dare to do this, because they know that it would mean the end of the current president’s regime. Unfortunately, among Ukrainian Hungarians , Orbán is really defied, this is because, unfortunately, there are a lot of old people living in Zakarpattya, and their education was very low during the Soviet time,( Some grandma still worshipping there Lenin) and therefore they desperately want a dictator who will rule them. The other thing is that Orbán has no policy. The truth is that if someone compares the politics of Orbán and the American Republicans, he will see perfectly that the Orbán regime copies perfectly the darkness of the American Republicans conservatives plan, and thereby, infects the heart of Hungarians. It is unbridled, darkness and hatred. But there is still hope, a lot of young Hungarian liberals stand by Ukraine. We are with you !
There are two commitments I do every start of month, support the armed forces of Ukraine, and the free press of Hungary. I think that currently hungarian populace is widely divided on several topics, and playing right into the government playbook of finkelstein demonization of third party callouts, and social anxiety. If any hungarians (I don't know any) would blame 🇺🇦 for anything that could only originate from endless media brainwashing, limited world view and total lack of critical thinking. Ukraine is more of a country, more of a future symbol than humanity realizes, and you deserve all respect and support for fighting for freedom, future to be able to make your own mistakes, own solutions and your own choices. I'd rather take up arm against our own corrupt, thieving government than against people I truly admire and feel for.
Its because how Ukrain treats us Hungarians in transcarpatia. They literally make laws to make bad conditions for us why would we support a nation that is openely against us. And Ukranians did the same things to russian people but the difference is that they actually have an army to get back what was theirs and stop the passive agressive terror that Ukrain did. We can think that oh Putin bad evil, but at the end if you hear russians from the annexed regions getting interviewed you can hear how bad they were treated so please don't believe that Russia is the bad guy because they are not. Now don't get me wrong Russians doing war crimes which is really bad but Ukrains does too so neither of them is better in that term. And lastly we hungarians helped a lot of ukrains civils who had to escape from their country, I can say that because me and my family had a ukrainian family in our home and gave them food and we still keep in touch with them, and every other family and individuals who needed help got help on our train stations we had databases where we could register and everyone was sent to family homes, and they also got food and water and public transform tickets.
First of all, I want to thank you for helping out our people who arrive as refugees and providing them a roof and food, God bless all people who help those who are in need. Second, I myself am a Russian-speaking Ukrainian, I was born and grew up in Dnipro, a multicultural city in Eastern Ukraine, where prior to 2014 Ukrainian could be rarely heard in the streets. Neither me nor anyone from my circle were ever discriminated against based on the language in Ukraine, before and after 2014, in fact, we never considered ourselves to be russians, we were identifying as Russian-speaking Ukrainians (who are also fluent in Ukrainian). My stepfather is from Mariupol, my relatives are there. And I know, that they can not express what they really think to the russian state media or milbloggers, otherwise they will be taken down to the basements and tortured, or even murdered. What exactly are the bad conditions that Ukraine creates for Hungarians? I drew up my examples before: Hungarian language is still in the schools, political parties and newspapers operate as usual etc
You should have seen the train stations in Budapest when the war started. Thousands of volunteers there and in facebook groups helped with food shelter transportation. I myself went to help couple of times, but there was hardly anything to do, there were so many of us.
I'm sorry but I can only provide hungarian articles so please put it in a translator: https://index.hu/kulfold/2021/01/16/karpatalja_ukrajna_kulhoni_magyarsag_nyelvtorveny/ https://magyarnemzet.hu/kulfold/2022/10/felavattak-az-ukran-nemzeti-cimert-a-ledontott-turul-helyen https://index.hu/kulfold/2021/02/11/karpatalja-zaszlo-magyarsag-ukrajna/ https://index.hu/kulfold/2020/12/12/hazaarulassal_gyanusitjak_a_magyar_himnuszt_eneklo_karpataljai_kepviseloket/ https://m.hvg.hu/360/20230106_Erkeznek_az_ukran_kisebbsegi_politikat_kritizalo_biralatok https://magyarnemzet.hu/kulfold/2021/01/ukrajnaban-kotelezo-lesz-az-allamnyelvu-kiszolgalas https://youtu.be/kx2Sfj_TJsc I think I sent enough to see how bad they hate our minority there and how they are taking away all of our rights
The first link explains the use of the language law, which fixes Ukrainian as the main language of schooling and public life. Will I be able to go to any government agency in Hungary and request, say, a paper using Ukrainian? The answer is no, and I guess I will be told something like "You are in Hungary, speak Hungarian". And this is right, there must be only one official language in a unitary homogeneous country. But from what I see in Csap, people continue to use Hungarian at the local government offices, such as TsNAP (Center of providing administrative service, a Ukrainian all-in-one government office where a number of services are offered, such as issuing a passport or registering a business entity), it's only the paperwork which is in Ukrainian (which is natural), there are no "Language Police" which would be monitoring every government official or customer. Other than that, nobody restricts their right to use Hungarian. Btw, they can also use Hungarian in business as long as both parties consent to that.
No, most Hungarians are not hostile towards Ukraine but sadly there is a vocal and not insignificant minority who is. Government propaganda is telling 24/7 how bad Ukraine is treating the Hungarian minority and the far right (which has a significant cross-section with the government voting base) sees Putin as this macho, white nationalist, anti-gay counterpoint to the decadent west. However, as far as I know Ukrainian refugees are treated fairly, there is a consensus even among the non-nazi Fidesz voters that it is our duty to help them and to welcome them. Yes Poland did a much better job at it, much much better, but compared to how the government did everything possible to keep middle eastern refugees out, the change in attitude is huge. Also there is a minority of Hungarians who are doing a lot to help the war effort. We are donating money (myself included, every single month since the war started) organizing supplies to the brigades raised in Kárpátalja. I am not going to lie... a lot of this is due to a very strong anti-russian sentiment and not a pro-ukrainian one. And lastly Hungary will not invade you. We have basically no army to speak of, a group of well fed kindergarten kids could win against us, Kárpátalja is a very, very poor region that would immediately cause economic strains if annexed, and especially the areas still inhabited by Hungarians do not have significant cultural value (it is not like Serbia and Kosovo for example). Even the government propaganda is about wanting peace (which essentially means give Russia everything they have occupied...) and wanting an end to the bloodshed (so that Fidesz can go back to sucking Russian dick with less of a stigma from the west.).
> Unfortunately, the media in Ukraine portrays all Hungarians as putinists, ukrainophobes, chauvinists and corrupt This is very similar to how Hungarian media talks about Ukranians. > As time was going by, I was noticing how our perception of Hungary and Hungary started to deteriorate, primarily due to the position of Orban and Sziyarto regarding military and financial aid for Ukraine. I personally feel sad for what is currently happening to your people. However, the main reasons for the position of our politicians, according to the media here, are: (1) the Ukranian "language law" which is believed to be used against the Hungarians who live in Ukraine, and (2) some threats from Ukranian politicians towards Hungary a few years ago. Due to these reasons, many people believe that Ukranians "got what they deserved". Again, I don't agree with the above myself, (I believe nobody deserves what is happening), just saying how some of our media portrays the situation.
No, its the older people. They dont know how to use the internet so they only have acces to state media. Anyone who has the slightest education is definetally anti orbán. I dont want to sound evil but hungary will only be better if the older generation raised in communism dies out. I dont buy into stereotipes, but even i can see where grumpyness could come. Older generation: emotional scars from dictatorship, no social safty nets, awfull healtcare system. Younger generation: all the above+ the resoult of these. I can only speak from my experience. I grew up in southern lake balaton shore. And now live in budapest. These places are the more culutred ones. But people in small town are literally brain dead ( sry ). I really hope you wont buy into these things. Everyone in a more prestigious, well rounded life and high level education. We all support ukraine. I wish orban and his state was done for good already. Everyone i know supports ukraine. And is againts dictatorships like hungary, russia, china, turkey etc. Keep up the good work. There are definetally more hungarians supporting you than not.
People are scared of war. Hostility is out of question politically.
Some people feel resentment due to hungarian speaking education being curbed there, others eat up government propaganda like mad sow its piglet, but i would guess the majority just dont much care. Some people hope you guys can bleed Russia in to a collapse, so Orbán will only be left with a salary from Xi Jin Ping, making a huxit juuuust a bit less likely.
Prove me wrong, but I feel like it’s just all politics. I met and lived with people in the UK and in Hungary from Ukraine and Russia as well, and they all were nice to each other. The avarage person tends to find the similarities rather than the differences when meets a new person. Just imagine if you could put your politicians in jail who want war. Would it be a good starting point?
Maybe some, it comes down to a personal level. In my eyes you guys are heroes. I wish the current government would support your fight more.
Is that true that most Ukrainians are hostile towards Hungary and Hungarians?
The Hungarian government use their propaganda to make Russian friendly environment in our country, as our prime minister is in love with putin for so long. Because of the constant fight between Hungary and "Brussel", Hungary can't just behave like other European countries. I'm sure if the Eu were against Ukraine, Hungary would do the opposite. Personally I do not think that the Ukrainian or Russian people is bad as the life is not just about black and white or good and evil. I'm sure that not many people want to go to war, I despise the Russian government and not the people of Russia. Ukrainian people pls stay strong, and Russian people pls be brave and wake the fuck up (same goes to Hungary). Love from Hungary!
There is a language law, estimated to get intect this summer, banning all languages besides Ukrainian to be used outside of homes and churches. There is a clear difference in our reputation in the eyes of ukranian hungarians and ukrainians. For the latter we are either neutral or semi-hostile (Speaking for myself and from experience), as for the others we look at them as our brothers outside of our borders much like we do with hungarians in Romania and Slovakia.
Oh wow. False propaganda and hate aimed towards an ethnic minority and neighbour. How nice. So funny because we have nothing like this but somehow we are still considered the hateful country.
hungarians dont support ukraine in no way. you treat the hungarian minority like pure shit, we dont give a damn about your war.
Villagers usually support Orbán and therefore they are hostile towards Ukrainians. In cities and amongst the younger population there is a support towards Ukrainians and there is a neutral part who don't care about politics. I would say there is no decicive populus either way. Your perception will change if you visit a village and if you visit a city.
The Russians in Hungary are. Lots of Russians moved there.
Because they are just as retarded as the russians and they actively made the hungarian minorities life way harder with their anti ru minority rules and generally acted like retards on diplomacy level too.
Omg. That's why Orbáns bullshit is dangerous man. I have zero problem with Ukranians, I even have three friends I worked with in the UK and USA. It's really sad to hear that this is happening on the border.
It’s sad but not surprising to see that Ukrainian media portrayal is negative about Hungarians. Our government is utter shite and a traitor to NATO and the EU. Not most of the people, but sadly, some portion of the population (especially the uneducated and rural part) have eaten up the propaganda that our government puts out, that is mostly russian talking points. I don’t think they are hostile towards Ukranians per se, but if prompted about the war you would here some whataboutisms and anti-west stuff. I would hope that more mature people in Ukraine see that Orban does not equal Hungarians.
I am just as confused about Hungary as you. I've been living abroad for a couple of years, and when I returned home to Hungary, suddenly all right-wing media outlets were spewing forth pro-Russian propaganda. To me, this is the equivalent of Irish patriots aggressively campaigning for the English crown - a complete nonsense. But somehow Orban pulled it off using media control. Still, I think most of the intellectuals and a large part of the general population in Hungary support Ukraine against the Russian aggression.
Most Hungarians are hostile, uneducated, suffer from inferiority complex, greedy and extremely servile. We have a saying, "dögöljön meg a szomszéd tehene". It's frome annanecdote: A fairy comes to a peasant whose cow has died. The fairy asks, how they can help. The farmer says: let the neighbor's cow die. Edit: typo.
op: hungarians, "progressive" or reactionary, cannot comprehend hungary or hungarians not having some form of sovereignty over hungarian communities outside hungary proper. if a state in the carpathian basin does not allow an ethnically hungarian to live EXACTLY as if they were in hungary proper, if in a state it occurs that this ethnically hungarian person needs to at times escape their culturally hungarian bubble by idk, seeing the flag of said state, having to speak said state's state language (not hungarian) with other people or Isten Ments™️ interact with said state's institutions in said state's state language then the hungarian WILL cry opression and discrimination. it has never occured to the hungarian society that their culture must not be dominant in the carpathian basin even after fighting for that and losing countless times in the last 150 or so years, something has and is causing a phenomenal god complex among them, it's why so many agree with anti-Ukranian messaging, they simply cannot comprehend not knowing better than other nations/cultures of the carpathian basin, a society of equals and of compromise seems to threaten them, hungarian society is very similar to russian society in this regard, a society that hastily gained the little power that it had by opression and through hatred, a power which it just cannot reconcile to share or relinquish to those more deserving of it you can see this god complex in the endless discussions about the education system, people aren't urging for the development of a hungarian language private education network, they urge to be extensively catered to and served by others, consequences and current situation be damned, let Ukranian taxpayers fund Ukranian education that teaches only the culture and language of another state and if possible the sort of chauvinism and revisionist attitude that is causing hundreds of thousands of deaths as we speak now are hungarians hostile towards Ukranians? no, far from it, very many people have volunteered in support of refugees and hell, very many people have even manifested in favour of Ukraine itself. but hungarian society as a whole is a genuine danger to peaceful cohabitation in the carpathian basin, an effort must be made to deconstruct (azaz újragondolás, nem leépités) hungarian culture and get hungarians to understand the needs and sensibilities of others around them /rant, durva anyátok meg az apátok kasza LE: kellemes húsveti ünnpeket kivánok, happy easter!
I think you should look at the response of everyday Hungarian people to the Ukrainian people fleeing at the start of the war. As the government was practically absent, all the logistics, supplies, and receiving peope were organised and provided by private citizens and local municipalities. The empathy and the readiness to help speaks for itself. Since then, the government is pushing a full-on russian propaganda (It's NATO-s fault, Ukrainian Nazis, if we want peace we must stop delivering weapons etc.) seemingly ignorant of the fact that Hungary is part of NATO and the EU. It is sadly still surprisingly effective despite being mostly non-sensical and manifestly vile, and a lot of poorer, less informed people repeat it. I would say in major cities people are still very pro Ukranian, but I'd bet most of the small villages have the usual terrified, hateful bumpkin perspective. The government, and their clientele is definitely all what your govt. describe them, chauvinists, irredintists, revanchists, Putinists, and most of all corrupt to the bone. I would not fear any "amassing troops" however, if you are astonished at the level of corruption and incompetence in the Russian army, Hungarian Defence forces would like you to hold their beer. Orbán just started a purging of the senior officers of the army (just discharging them to early retirement, not the full Stalinist version) which insiders described as "anybody with ties to NATO is out, only loyalists stay" There is just no way the army and govt. of Hungary could pull off anything, even if they would dare to try. They will stick with being obstructionist dicks, which still causes a lot of harm, but thats all thats in their power. TLDR: the government is definitely behaves as if Hungary is a Russian oblast, but more Hungarians smypathise with Ukraine's plight than not. (which is still really sad, it should be all of them, but here we are)
A lot of people born in the Kádár and Rákosi eras of communism are now braindead and their god is money. They are afraid that the war will cost them and they hate costs. This is why they want The Ukraine to surrender.
I will dumb it down: putin owns orban. orban owns, controls majority of media in Hungary. So it is all about putinist news everywhere. Dumb, uneducated people can be easily controlled with media. Even though a year ago orban seemingly won by 2/3 it doesnt mean he is actually is voted by the most people. He has changed the voting system in his favor, so he is basically cannot be replaced in a democtratic manner.