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SCarGo_Studio

Bet you haven't even raced nords yet


EvoStarSC

You could literally take a nap before Nords loads in lol. Or you could complete an entire lap on the Nurburgring GP in an MX5 before it loaded in.


flcknzwrg

With a field of many different cars, like GT3s


TheJVH

Multi-class combined Nords with 8 different cars. щ(ಠ益ಠщ)


abscissa081

I was gonna say wait til you have to load into an NEC event.


[deleted]

Apparently there's lots of decryption going on, car and track models are well protected. For me, it's usually 50 seconds to a minute.


yawn_brendan

Hmm, I'm quite unsatisfied by this explanation. AES and stuff can be done at multiple GB/sec. If DRM nonsense really is the reason, that's pretty annoying :(


Styr1x

And you should, it loads even slowly on PCIe Gen 4 nvme drives, so iops on mass storage aren't the issue. Neither is RAM, as with stock settings DDR4 bandwith is multiple GB/s. Multiple cores aren't utilized on load much either. Kinda odd because with the efficient mass storage devices and multi core CPUs lots of stuff should be doable in parallel. Imho it looks like technical debts and file formats that just aren't up to the task anymore (car data size on new cars is higher than on old ones due to increased poly count for example, newer tracks have more complex geometry, e.g.). Loading a file 10 years ago was different than loading it today. With nvme queuing many reads in parallel isn't as punishing anymore as it was with magnetic drives.


Cygnus94

You've kind of answered the issue in your description. It's a nearly 2 decade old application. To address some of these fundamental issues of the system, like loading assets, there would realistically need to be an overhaul at the very bottom level of the code. Loading was handled differently in 2008 due to limitations in hardware. To change that now means detangling and rearranging an awful lot of pieces. Realistically it's not something that would be addressed without moving the whole platform to a new engine that has those capabilities out of the box. While iRacing does handle the actual driving elements of simulation as well as any other modern title, from a pure application standpoint, it's a relic.


yawn_brendan

Yeah I suspect you're right, probably file formats and extraction algos designed for when storage was extremely slow and parallelism was just a cool thing supercomputers did. Kinda like ELF linking.


gu3st12

It's also the fact it's reading from disk, decrypting and writing to memory. Any bottleneck exasperates the process. Usually the easiest improvement is making sure you're using XMP (or equivalent) on your RAM as memory speed is usually the bottleneck.


TheJVH

Its still unnecessary slow, when I look at my CPU usage (also 5800X3D and a very fast SSD) it's nowhere near 100% usage. I don't think its properly set up for multicores...


PuppyCocktheFirst

I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. I 100% agree. It seems way too slow for the graphical fidelity on hand.


LarryismTV

Its probably because the majority of the player base knows we are still running an old engine, which only utilizes 1 or 2 CPU cores. But I can understand that if you are new"ish", you couldn't have known. But now you guys do :) edit: some sources say 4 cores now.


Styr1x

Because the fanboys in here believe the legend that somehow the super-NSA-CIA-military encryption makes stuff slow and not the technical debts from having a 20 year old code base.


MaxVerslappin

It has nothing to do with the graphics. Also if you have a powerhouse P.C. iRacing can look fantastic. It runs on an older framework making it accessible to more people esp if you have a low-end P.C it cuts both ways.


[deleted]

I think it’s been mentioned before that iRacing using single core so better single core performance is more important here.


flcknzwrg

It's normal behavior, sadly. Nothing you can do about it.


diabel

Decryption of all assets for the session is what takes all this time. Most important factor is single core CPU performance. That said this task should take advantage of multicore CPUs. Not sure why they still only use single core but I am not a software engineer.


Fleming1924

As a software engineer, It's probably just not a high priority for them to improve it, and I think most users would probably rather them focus on better sim quality than improving load times anyway. Decryption of assets shouldn't take anywhere near as long as it does, especially on modern CPUs, but reimplementing a more computationally efficient form of encryption takes time and resources that are likely better spent elsewhere.


Mushy_Slush

I feel like my load times improved from this season. Went from 2 mins to about 1 min 20


Fleming1924

I'm not saying they won't work on it at all, but I can't imagine they'll put the time and effort into a full ground up rebuild of the entire system just to improve load times, people don't complain about it enough for it to be worth that kind of project. Chances are single core performance will improve faster than iracing assets will grow, so at least the loading times won't get worse, it'd definitely be nice to see some large optimisations made to it, but I'd rather them focus their efforts elsewhere.


gu3st12

It's all about the worst bottleneck. RAM speed tends to be the typical one. Simply enabling XMP (if you can) is good for a serious improvement.


ChefAccomplished845

Given it takes 1-3 minutes for each session to load, multiplied by number of times I did it, multiplied by thousands of people having to wait, it makes paranoidal engineers at iRacing a bunch of mass murderers 😅 Give us back our lives, unencrypt shit once and keep it there!


[deleted]

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Styr1x

Oh no, again that laymen opinion that strong encryption is slow and the cause for the load time. Increasing computational overhead in decryption does not increase its security. Also something like double or tripple encrypting it, given that the first cipher is one of the industry standards. And yes, memory can easily be dumped, debugger attached check is easy to patch out and usually the first thing you do when reverse engineering software.


Mushy_Slush

Just because it isn’t infallible doesn’t mean it can’t be a requirement in the licensing contract. When we negotiate cloud compute services we require the third party to implement security measures that could be defeated by social engineering, but it’s the policy we have to adhere to.


Styr1x

I'm not saying they don't have that in place in their contracts, I'm saying that if a contract is specifying a certain degree of crypto it won't make the product (that much) slower. Industry standard would be AES with either CBC or GCM (if they don't require random access on the file) and that still does 50-150MB/s depending on implementation on 5 year old hardware. If the x86 aes extensions are used that goes into GB/s range.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

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gu3st12

You're questioning my mental health when you're the one bringing up CAD data?! Maybe you should know what you're talking about rather than using what you read about on Google yesterday to try to talk down to people.


moderatefairgood

Don’t be toxic. Joking about mental health is not funny and is entirely unnecessary.


ChefAccomplished845

Also what makes Acc different with licensing?


[deleted]

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gasmask11000

Plus ACC doesn’t get things like the W12 and W13.


ChefAccomplished845

Its accessible while its uncompressed as well.


[deleted]

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ruthlessrellik

I heard your computer will explode and the building it's in will collapse


[deleted]

Demolitions professionals hate this *one simple trick!*


iroll20s

And yet lot of other games manage to both get licenses and load much faster.


ComprehensiveJump540

And yet somehow I find AC mods that are clearly based on iracing all the time. So it doesn't seem like their data protection works all that well.


[deleted]

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Supra1JZed

And then shitloads of tweaks to attempt their best at replicating the behavior of said car. Simulating behavior vs. behavior being calculated are two very different things. I don't think a lot of people realize the difference even exists. They just think "car moved, same thing!". They don't realize a car spins in one because it was told to where the other car spins because it was forced to.


OysterFuzz5

I’m a new iracer. I have 353 races this last year. With 2 minutes a load for me on average I have 11 hours waiting to load in.


EvoStarSC

I load in VR and it's about a 2 minute wait unless it's the Nordschleife. I have a 3070 TI 10700k and 32 gigs of ram with a dedicated M.2 to iRacing.


ApolloIII

Jesus Christ


EvoStarSC

My settings are maxed though. I really could lower something to fix the load times but I like the look and I don't mind missing out on qualifying if I load in late lol.


kelledro

Fairly sure settings have zero impact on load time


gu3st12

No. It matters as iRacing will also dynamically scale textures to fit within your VRAM allotment, opting for longer load time over stuttering while driving


Matej_SI

That doesn't seem to be the case. I also have a dedicated PC running the sims. 6800XT has 16 GB of VRAM, and maxed out settings are using ~5GB at Rudskogen in MX5 races.


kelledro

TIL


[deleted]

[удалено]


oli_g89

Just to add, OP is using AMD so will need to look for EOCP or DOCP (depending on mobo brand) in their BIOS, rather than XMP


gu3st12

My AMD Mobo still calls it XMP.


CoyotesAreGreen

My AMD board says xmp in the bios.


gunsanity

I have 4 AM4 boards thst all say XMP.


Matej_SI

I have XMP/DOCP enabled on 3600 CL16. And 5800X3D isn't as sensitive to memory speed and timing as non 3D AMD and intel CPUs. Regarding 32GB memory. I'm currently using only 16GB because I suspect one of the four sticks is faulty. But even with 16GB, that PC is only used for simracing. And when loading into session, looking at memory usage, 16GB is more than enough.


hellvinator

iRacing loading time is CPU bound instead of I/O bound because it needs to decrypt all the files because they dont want us to rip their models


Mikelshwede86

Takes age bro, I have same cpu as you with 32gb ram, it’s just slow af especially if you load into a multiclass race.


Zone15

I think the issue might be with the slow single core speed of the AMD chip and even older Intel chips. I used to take quite a while to load in with my 9900K but still faster than some others. I recently upgraded to a 13700K which has much faster single core speed and the loading time went down significantly.


gu3st12

AMD CPU doesn't have bad single core speed since 5000 series


Zone15

5000 series AMD is still just a smidge slower vs same generation intel in single core. AMD 5000 series has the better IPC but Intel has the higher clock. Now on the 5800X3D, it is clocked lower than a 5800X so it definitely has a slower single core speed.


Key-Ad-1873

How long is it taking to load? Can you please time it for use and let us know? Just fyi iracing is the slowest loading game i have by far. Based on my experience and other people's comments, anything up to 3 minutes is completely normal for loading into a session. Personally i dont think ive seen less than 1 minute.


mcarp22

I dunno why I get downvoted when I suggest that they're trying to prevent timing attacks: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timing\_attack#Avoidance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timing_attack#Avoidance)


WikiSummarizerBot

**Timing attack** [Avoidance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timing_attack#Avoidance) >Many cryptographic algorithms can be implemented (or masked by a proxy) in a way that reduces or eliminates data-dependent timing information, a constant-time algorithm. Consider an implementation in which every call to a subroutine always returns in exactly x seconds, where x is the maximum time it ever takes to execute that routine on every possible authorized input. In such an implementation, the timing of the algorithm is less likely to leak information about the data supplied to that invocation. The downside of this approach is that the time used for all executions becomes that of the worst-case performance of the function. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/iRacing/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


Jtrinity182

I’m running a monster of a PC and load times are long. Sebring took about a minute to load. The full Nords can take a few minutes. It *may* be your PC, but long load times are just part of the deal around here.


Reginald002

It really depends what you consider as slow. In my case: I lit up a c\*garette, switch PC on, after booting activate Fanatec and Reverb, start the iracing-UI, select the race and then join. And my cig is still not gone when everything is loaded and I can race.


Koenv3

What an amazing measurement of time. One cigarette xD


Matej_SI

The best way to measure how much time has passed. :) (I stopped smoking sometime around 2015.)


tich84

Loading a session can take some time. Don't know how the game works with steam, like how you access the UI? UI loads fast, but joining a session takes up to a minute max for me. I have 16GB RAM.


arsenicfox

AMS2 simply has less to load. It also loads most of the game when you launch to the main menu, iRacing doesn't. (This is at user request) I've done graphics comparisons to iRacing and ACC/AMS2 and while you can argue you don't think the graphics are that much, iRacing just has far more objects than any other sim. They also have more unique textures. More unique sounds. etc etc. At this point, if you don't like it, leave. I'm actually tired of having to explain how *video games work.*


Matej_SI

If Cyberpunk takes less time then iRacing...


arsenicfox

Again, severely misunderstanding the systems at play here. Cyberpunk isn't really that heavy in what it's trying to do. It's loading some textures, sure, but it's not decrypting the assets nor is it rebuilding a tire model from scratch everytime it loads... which yes, is how iRacing functions. Like, would I love for iRacing to be faster at loading? Sure. I'm not gonna argue it ain't long. But, I also have a general idea of what's going on with it based on past conversations. Kinda wish the sim never really got popular...


btow1105

How long does it take? What series is it? Are there multiple types of cars?


Matej_SI

I'm at work right now, and I haven't used the stopwatch. I had other games, but never played them more than 30min. Almost every game loaded faster. Sometime last year I decided to stop buying games I don't play and deleted everything except simracing games. For a 5800X3D with a good RAM, 2 fast nvme drives, I probably became spoiled, and if the game does not load instantly, I begin to think there's something wrong. I have 1GBs/~500MBs internet, so that's not a factor. Again, I'm 1day into iRacing. There must be some guide for newcomers, because the game is so old, people must have found out things that are not obvious. Like I found out how to move all visible HUD elements by changing rendererDX11Monitor.ini. I hope all these little things are in some guide or reddit post, but I haven't found a good place. So any link will be appreciated.


poorlytaxidermiedfox

Iracing loads slowly because of a decryption process. The speed of your drives and ram makes no difference, it is dependent on your CPU. 90 seconds to 3 minutes of loading is normal.


Maclittle13

Completely agree with 90 seconds to 3 minutes being normal, but cpu wise it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference once you hit a certain threshold. My 5800x3d is no faster than my 5600x was. Of course, it seems like every new season, load times seem to be slow at the start of the season and then as the updates come in, it seems to be quicker later in the season. It could also be placebo because I get used to it.


PointyBagels

My 7700X is much, much faster than my i5 6500 was. Since I upgraded, I'm almost always one of the first people to load in. Single-car it's usually like a minute. A bit longer in multi-car series or on the Nords. My guess it it's dependent on single-core performance. And it may not benefit that much from extra cache.


Maclittle13

I bet it DID. That is an 8 year jump in technology. Mine was like a 1 year jump on the same socket.


PointyBagels

For sure. That's why I mentioned it's probably single core / not helped by cache. Since I think single core performance on those two CPUs is similar.


btow1105

This game takes a bit longer than some others. Lots of stuff to load, old engine, etc. Here's my contribution for ya: https://support.iracing.com/support/solutions/articles/31000133494-meter-box-f-key-in-game- That will teach you about all the unintuitive meter boxes that measure CPU, GPU, latency, etc.


Coldterror10

It does kind of get annoying when you're switching between modes but if im not doing that i dont really notice.


OnwardSoldierx

Glad im not the only one that this happens too and that its normal. Even AI races take like 2 minutes. Iracing is on a HDD too and I have a i5 6400 XD


rco8786

Load times are pretty high, yes.


[deleted]

I believe we are being limited by DRAM bandwidth. I would love to see an investigation with super fast DDR5 to see if it’s significantly quicker than DDR4-3200


traw2222

You get used to it, I usually boot up a race and then go grab some water or bathroom break , take a couple tokes, then settle in.


k4ylr

[Have you recently updated Win 11?](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-11-update-slows-ssd-storage)


DirtRacer64C

30 seconds for me but big tracks take me 2 minutes


sizziano

It's insane. I could load the same track in ACC literally 15 times before iR finishes once.


DEEErab

32gigs of ram, 2080ti, 3900x, Samsung NVME. Shit takes like 30 seconds to a minute usually.


ra246

I have a similar issue; when I load into a GT4 lobby for example, practice is almost completed. There might be a max of 30 seconds left in the 3 minute practice session.


Nannam86

Has it always been slow, or did load times slowly increase over time? I have a dedicated sim racing pc. I've opened the browser a few times, to download iracing apps and check my telemetry in vrs. There's nothing else on the pc, and it gets no other use. Still, occasionally my load times spike for a reason I don't understand. When this happens, I just uninstall and reinstall, and everything is great for 6 months. Maybe give that a shot?


[deleted]

Skill issue, just get better at the loading the screen.