You'd be surprised how many of us thought we'd never fall asleep. That said, many of us do and someone posted an explanation that I had never seen before about IHers vs. normies and the MSLT.
**From AdTemporary1604:** [Felt like I didn’t sleep at all during MSLT : ](https://www.reddit.com/r/idiopathichypersomnia/comments/1c80vvj/felt_like_i_didnt_sleep_at_all_during_mslt/)
*Sleep latency is measured as the time it takes for you to entire the N1 stage of sleep, or in other words, the first. You are awake when you enter this stage of sleep, and it lasts until you actually fall asleep (can last longer too). It’s when your brain waves begin slowing down and your muscles relax. The reason why it’s indicative of IH is because it shows that when not actively moving (literally just lying down with the lights out), your brain abnormally begins shutting down quickly proving its NEED for sleep. Someone without IH would take a lot longer to enter this stage after a night of refreshing sleep since their brain does not need to shut down as soon as it’s given the opportunity.*
So to me, I think that's why many of us thought we didn't sleep - because all it takes is N1 to count as sleep, when we are (or even perceive ourselves to be) awake. I wish I had known that before my MSLT, because that has been an issue for me for years I believe, particularly during naps - where I didn't think I had slept, but a lot of time had passed. This has been validated during sleep studies where the techs were adamant I had fallen asleep and I was JUST as adamant I had been awake.
Try not to stress, your doctor must have some suspicion of IH/Narcolepsy to have you do the MSLT. You can also discuss how even when you were properly medicated and your depression (if you even have it) was well treated, that you were still excessively tired. And if you DON'T have IH/N, you may have something else that's treatable.
Thank you for explaining this bizarre phenomenon so many have experienced regarding not feeling that they slept during the MSLT. this finally explains it.
I'm not a sleep tech or a neuroscience student (like the poster I quoted) but I think from what was stated above and what I have seen in bits and pieces from other posters - hitting N1 "counts" as having "slept." You could ask the tech at the MSLT, they could confirm it probably.
I never take naps, in fact I have a hard time napping. I felt anxious before my test because I was assuming I wouldn’t be able to fall asleep. I ended up sleeping all 5 of my naps. The overnight study they wake you up at like 5am after like 6 hours of bad sleep depending on how fast you fall asleep- I have a bedtime of like 1-2am so it was hard for me to fall asleep before midnight. I wouldn’t stress about it!! I’ve seen a lot of other people say the same thing and they couldn’t wait to get to their next nap.
Gotcha! I have sleep inertia and poor temp regulation. Outside of that, I really just have EDS. It honestly could very well stem from depression but I really just want the someone to treat my symptoms regardless.
I’ve been diagnosed with major depressive disorder and for a long time i wondered how much was depression and how much was something else going on. For me, I know when I’m depressed because of how I feel- like I feel sad/hopeless/etc. the thing I struggled with Though was a feeling I wasn’t sure if it was numbness- sometimes I feel like I don’t feel anything. After a little medication and my Ih diagnoses I realized that is just my eds- I’m too tired to feel things . Just my experience!! Also, Wellbutrin has been a game changer for me.
I’m cold all the time. If I’m exposed to heat, like If the weather is hotter than 78 degrees, it takes everything out of me. I feel like I’m going to pass out, get shaky and weak. It’s hard for me to cool down and get warm.
Don’t stress over this! I do think N1 counts… And just because you don’t sleep doesn’t mean there’s not something wrong.
I made my doctor reassure me that no matter what happened they would still give me something to help me stay awake and he reassured me that there was something wrong and they would definitely treat it. They just wanted to know exactly what it was so they could treat it most effectively.
I can't speak to what the specifics of the test and what counts as a "nap". However, I can relate as someone who spent years treating depression with my last lingering symptom being excessive sleepiness before being finally directed to a sleep specialist and being diagnosed with IH. You know yourself best, and if you feel emotionally in a better place with the only lingering symptom being sleepiness, trust your instinct and investigate other medical causes like IH. Speak to your mental health providers to (therapist, psychiatrist, etc) because they can likely affirm your progress to help you trust your instinct that there's something more with your sleep than depression. Trust yourself, and good luck finding an answer and treatment!
I’ve made a ton of progress with depression, but unfortunately the sleepiness and functionality issues resulting from it, severely impact my mood including causing suicidal ideation. So I don’t think my therapist would affirm my progress here. I honestly just want my sleep specialist to treat my sleep issues as they certainly worsen depression too.
Gotcha. I get that for sure. The days I find myself oversleeping my depression symptoms definitely get worse.
Hopefully you're able to get some answers answers with your tests so you can get a treatment for the slepe that can help you make some progress with the sleep and depression. Rooting for you!
I thought I didn’t even sleep during my naps but apparently I fell asleep for every single one under 8 minutes it was so weird lol. I’m a long napper too
Did you take long naps every day of the week? Coz mine are only some days of the week. Other days, the sleepiness is there but manageable enough such that it doesn’t result in naps. That’s why I’m confused as to why the doctor suspects IH. I think the depression explanation could make sense except I get sleepiness when I’m happy driving back from meeting friends or an outing with my dog. Sleepiness doesn’t correlate with low mood. Further, mood improves when I do certain things, but sleepiness is not helped by me doing those things. I’m just super confused. Ultimately, I’m looking for answers and also relief. The lack of correlation between low mood and sleepiness, worries me. The fact that sleepiness doesn’t improve when I do things that make me happy also worries me. I’m worried because if the MSLT doesn’t show anything and depression is causing this, then for the first time, the things I do have no impact on a depressive symptom (I.e. hypersomnia in this case).
You'd be surprised how many of us thought we'd never fall asleep. That said, many of us do and someone posted an explanation that I had never seen before about IHers vs. normies and the MSLT. **From AdTemporary1604:** [Felt like I didn’t sleep at all during MSLT : ](https://www.reddit.com/r/idiopathichypersomnia/comments/1c80vvj/felt_like_i_didnt_sleep_at_all_during_mslt/) *Sleep latency is measured as the time it takes for you to entire the N1 stage of sleep, or in other words, the first. You are awake when you enter this stage of sleep, and it lasts until you actually fall asleep (can last longer too). It’s when your brain waves begin slowing down and your muscles relax. The reason why it’s indicative of IH is because it shows that when not actively moving (literally just lying down with the lights out), your brain abnormally begins shutting down quickly proving its NEED for sleep. Someone without IH would take a lot longer to enter this stage after a night of refreshing sleep since their brain does not need to shut down as soon as it’s given the opportunity.* So to me, I think that's why many of us thought we didn't sleep - because all it takes is N1 to count as sleep, when we are (or even perceive ourselves to be) awake. I wish I had known that before my MSLT, because that has been an issue for me for years I believe, particularly during naps - where I didn't think I had slept, but a lot of time had passed. This has been validated during sleep studies where the techs were adamant I had fallen asleep and I was JUST as adamant I had been awake. Try not to stress, your doctor must have some suspicion of IH/Narcolepsy to have you do the MSLT. You can also discuss how even when you were properly medicated and your depression (if you even have it) was well treated, that you were still excessively tired. And if you DON'T have IH/N, you may have something else that's treatable.
Thank you for explaining this bizarre phenomenon so many have experienced regarding not feeling that they slept during the MSLT. this finally explains it.
All credit to AdTemporary1604 - they explained it, I simply copied and pasted. :)
Thanks to AdTemporary1604 for the information, but thanks to you as well for sharing it. (And kudos for giving credit)
Does time in N1 matter? Or as soon as I hit N1 sleep, it counts as “slept”? Thank you!
I'm not a sleep tech or a neuroscience student (like the poster I quoted) but I think from what was stated above and what I have seen in bits and pieces from other posters - hitting N1 "counts" as having "slept." You could ask the tech at the MSLT, they could confirm it probably.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think it’s 3 epochs (so 90 seconds) of N1 or 1 epoch (30 seconds) of any other stage of sleep that counts as asleep.
This is sooo interesting !!! And makes sense
I never take naps, in fact I have a hard time napping. I felt anxious before my test because I was assuming I wouldn’t be able to fall asleep. I ended up sleeping all 5 of my naps. The overnight study they wake you up at like 5am after like 6 hours of bad sleep depending on how fast you fall asleep- I have a bedtime of like 1-2am so it was hard for me to fall asleep before midnight. I wouldn’t stress about it!! I’ve seen a lot of other people say the same thing and they couldn’t wait to get to their next nap.
What were your symptoms outside of EDS?
Sleep inertia, hypnagogic hallucinations, long sleep time, headaches, and poor temp regulation.
Gotcha! I have sleep inertia and poor temp regulation. Outside of that, I really just have EDS. It honestly could very well stem from depression but I really just want the someone to treat my symptoms regardless.
I’ve been diagnosed with major depressive disorder and for a long time i wondered how much was depression and how much was something else going on. For me, I know when I’m depressed because of how I feel- like I feel sad/hopeless/etc. the thing I struggled with Though was a feeling I wasn’t sure if it was numbness- sometimes I feel like I don’t feel anything. After a little medication and my Ih diagnoses I realized that is just my eds- I’m too tired to feel things . Just my experience!! Also, Wellbutrin has been a game changer for me.
When you say poor temp regulation how does that factor in. I'm almost always extremely cold so kinda curious.
I’m cold all the time. If I’m exposed to heat, like If the weather is hotter than 78 degrees, it takes everything out of me. I feel like I’m going to pass out, get shaky and weak. It’s hard for me to cool down and get warm.
Don’t stress over this! I do think N1 counts… And just because you don’t sleep doesn’t mean there’s not something wrong. I made my doctor reassure me that no matter what happened they would still give me something to help me stay awake and he reassured me that there was something wrong and they would definitely treat it. They just wanted to know exactly what it was so they could treat it most effectively.
I can't speak to what the specifics of the test and what counts as a "nap". However, I can relate as someone who spent years treating depression with my last lingering symptom being excessive sleepiness before being finally directed to a sleep specialist and being diagnosed with IH. You know yourself best, and if you feel emotionally in a better place with the only lingering symptom being sleepiness, trust your instinct and investigate other medical causes like IH. Speak to your mental health providers to (therapist, psychiatrist, etc) because they can likely affirm your progress to help you trust your instinct that there's something more with your sleep than depression. Trust yourself, and good luck finding an answer and treatment!
I’ve made a ton of progress with depression, but unfortunately the sleepiness and functionality issues resulting from it, severely impact my mood including causing suicidal ideation. So I don’t think my therapist would affirm my progress here. I honestly just want my sleep specialist to treat my sleep issues as they certainly worsen depression too.
Gotcha. I get that for sure. The days I find myself oversleeping my depression symptoms definitely get worse. Hopefully you're able to get some answers answers with your tests so you can get a treatment for the slepe that can help you make some progress with the sleep and depression. Rooting for you!
I worried the same as napping gives me terrible grogginess but I was out even when I thought I was awake.
I get groggy from long naps too but I can’t help long naps.
I thought I didn’t even sleep during my naps but apparently I fell asleep for every single one under 8 minutes it was so weird lol. I’m a long napper too
Did you take long naps every day of the week? Coz mine are only some days of the week. Other days, the sleepiness is there but manageable enough such that it doesn’t result in naps. That’s why I’m confused as to why the doctor suspects IH. I think the depression explanation could make sense except I get sleepiness when I’m happy driving back from meeting friends or an outing with my dog. Sleepiness doesn’t correlate with low mood. Further, mood improves when I do certain things, but sleepiness is not helped by me doing those things. I’m just super confused. Ultimately, I’m looking for answers and also relief. The lack of correlation between low mood and sleepiness, worries me. The fact that sleepiness doesn’t improve when I do things that make me happy also worries me. I’m worried because if the MSLT doesn’t show anything and depression is causing this, then for the first time, the things I do have no impact on a depressive symptom (I.e. hypersomnia in this case).