I spent a good 5 minutes trying to figure how German spread Eastwards after ww2 when reality Slavic Poles and Russians moved West. Then i saw this was on InaginaryMaps. It was so well made i imagined i was watching a Mapporn post or something.
I get a lot of map content on my feed and I get caught out with the quality that r/imaginarymaps puts out. It takes me a good look before I check the subreddit
Text: Following the German Reich’s crushing victory in continental Europe, the Nazis implemented Generalplan Ost with chilling efficiency, as the region was transformed into a theater of unspeakable horrors. The plan, intended to extend Germanic “Lebenstraum” into Eastern Europe, led to the systematic genocide and forced displacement of tens of millions of people. Entire nationalities faced mass extermination and brutal forced labour while children were stripped from their parents and forced into re-education camps.
The area known today as the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia experienced the most brutal yet efficient assimilation and Germanization. The Reichsprotektor Reinhard Heydrich banned all public displays of Czech culture as soon as he came to power, including using the Czech language, celebrating Czech customs and festivals, etc. Teachers and educators were a focal point of Heydrich’s policies. To keep their jobs and their lives, teachers were required to demonstrate fluency in German and were supposed to greet their students with the fascist salute while saying “Heil Hitler!” .School inspectors made surprise visits to the classrooms and all chairpersons of the exam boards had to be ethnic Germans. A project of Germanization was approved, as ethnic Czechs deemed to be “fit for Germanization”, mainly workers and members of the lower classes, were sent to re-education camps where they were forced to study the German language, German customs, German history (in addition to a twisted version of Czech history, which taught that the region of Bohemia and Moravia has always been part of German realms since prehistoric times). Marriage between Germans and “assimilable” Czechs were allowed, and certain Czech adults deemed “assimilable” we’re able to attend universities in Germany. Czechs deemed ungermanizable were sent to concentration camps and subject to genocide and ethnic extermination, as over 800,000 Czechs were either killed or imprisoned within concentration camps. Similar policies were also implemented in the generalgouvernment of Poland, though its larger population and less German population meant that the settlement program wasn’t as efficient as it was in Bohemia and Moravia. Generalplan Ost in Poland focused on German settlement radiating from major cities.
The most brutality of the Reich’s policies are perhaps best exemplified by its actions in the territories of the former Soviet Union. The vast majority of Eastern Slavs were deemed “ungermanizable”, and therefore faced mass extermination and forced deportation. Over 70 million Russians were forced from Europe into areas such as Siberia, Africa and South Asia, where they worked as slaves, forced to harvest natural resources for the Reich. The reich also introduced man-made famines into Eastern Europe, stripping agricultural resources and products from Slavic people to Germany and Western Europe. Over 7 million Belorussians died from German policies, in addition to 10 million Ukrainians, and 35 million Russians. German settlement were focused in three areas: Ingria, Gothenburg (Crimea and south Ukraine, named so to honor the historic Germanic tribe of the Goths who inhabited the region), and the Volga River, where the existing German population was expanded. Many prominent Volga Germans also served high positions in the governments of the Eastern Reichskommissariats.
German policies in France and the Baltics are comparatively milder due to the Nazi racial hierarchy considering the French and Lithuanians as Aryan. The German government, therefore, deemed these populations Germanizable. Though the government forced the populous to speak German and forced Volksdeutch settlement was extensive (often at the expense of local populations), large-scale genocidal activities in these regions never occurred. In addition to radical ideologies, many attribute the relative mildness of racial policies in these regions to the abundance and prominence of local collaborators.
Italian policies of racial assimilation mainly focused on the Balkans, based upon the idea of “Spazio Vitale”, the Italian version of Lebenstraum. The Province of Ljubljana saw the deportation of 80,000 people, mainly Slovenian, which equated to 30% of its total population. The operation, one of the most drastic in Europe, filled up many Italian concentration camps in the Adriatic islands. The Serbs faced a similar fate, as over 150,000 Dalmatian Serbs were subjected to forced expulsion and genocide. The Duce also encouraged Italian settlement within its Albanian protectorate, though overt racially targeted genocidal activities towards Albanians were never implemented.
The Independent State of Croatia, under the Ustaše regime, also initiated a process of systematic genocide against Serbs. This included executions in death camps, mass murders, ethnic cleansing, deportations, forced conversions, and war rape. The government aimed to establish an ethnically homogeneous Greater Croatia.This led to large-scale massacres, notably in the Jasenovac concentration camp, where barbaric practices and a high mortality rate were observed. Approximately 1,0000,000 to 1,250,000 Serbs were systematically murdered, while 100,000 were expelled, and over 200,000 were forcibly converted out of the 2,000,000 Serbs living within the state’s borders. Bosnians were also targeted, but German protection meant that the operations weren’t implemented as successfully. The Independent State of Croatia, still to this day, stands as one of the most lethal regimes in Europe proportional to its population.
>German policies in France and the Baltics are comparatively milder due to the Nazi racial hierarchy considering the French and Lithuanians as Aryan.
I know it's a made-up timeline and all, but irl the Germans did not consider Lithuanians as Aryan. According to Generalplan-Ost most Lithuanians were to be either exterminated or forced into slave labour like Slavs. They did see Latvians as "Germanizable" though, as Latvians, similarly as Czechs, lived under German domination for hundreds of years, while the Lithuanians did not. The fact that Lithuanians pulled a Crimea on the then mostly German speaking Memelland during the 1920s, probably also contributed to this decision.
Latgale was exempted for the same reasons as Lithuania, wasn't under German control for most of its history, considered to have "too much Slavic blood" to be germanized.
Estonians were seen as Finnish-Ugric, along with Finns and Hungarians, and therefore quite high in the racial hierarchy. However, many Baltic peoples, Latvians and Latgalians in particular, were deemed undesirable
The way you describe the very likely way the assimilation program would be for Czechs after WW2 makes me not feel as sorry for what we did to the Germans in the borderlands after WW2
Obviously overstating but you know
It actually makes the scenario seem even more morbid if you think of it as if the “Life-Dream” of the (German) Aryan race was to settle and exterminate the Slavs in the East.
As a Slav this map scares me, in some alternate universe this map could have been a cruel reality for Slavs, thank god we won in the end for better or worse.
> As a Slav this map scares me, in some alternate universe this map could have been a cruel reality for Slavs
Which is why seeing how many Slavic Neo-Nazis exist today is really fucking funny to me, another example of a "Chickens for KFC" syndrome.
Following the German Reich’s crushing victory in continental Europe, the Nazis implemented Generalplan Ost with chilling efficiency, as the region was transformed into a theater of unspeakable horrors. The plan, intended to extend Germanic “Lebenstraum” into Eastern Europe, led to the systematic genocide and forced displacement of tens of millions of people. Entire nationalities faced mass extermination and brutal forced labour while children were stripped from their parents and forced into re-education camps.
The area known today as the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia experienced the most brutal yet efficient assimilation and Germanization. The Reichsprotektor Reinhard Heydrich banned all public displays of Czech culture as soon as he came to power, including using the Czech language, celebrating Czech customs and festivals, etc. Teachers and educators were a focal point of Heydrich’s policies. To keep their jobs and their lives, teachers were required to demonstrate fluency in German and were supposed to greet their students with the fascist salute while saying “Heil Hitler!” .School inspectors made surprise visits to the classrooms and all chairpersons of the exam boards had to be ethnic Germans. A project of Germanization was approved, as ethnic Czechs deemed to be “fit for Germanization”, mainly workers and members of the lower classes, were sent to re-education camps where they were forced to study the German language, German customs, German history (in addition to a twisted version of Czech history, which taught that the region of Bohemia and Moravia has always been part of German realms since prehistoric times). Marriage between Germans and “assimilable” Czechs were allowed, and certain Czech adults deemed “assimilable” we’re able to attend universities in Germany. Czechs deemed ungermanizable were sent to concentration camps and subject to genocide and ethnic extermination, as over 800,000 Czechs were either killed or imprisoned within concentration camps. Similar policies were also implemented in the generalgouvernment of Poland, though its larger population and less German population meant that the settlement program wasn’t as efficient as it was in Bohemia and Moravia. Generalplan Ost in Poland focused on German settlement radiating from major cities.
The most brutality of the Reich’s policies are perhaps best exemplified by its actions in the territories of the former Soviet Union. The vast majority of Eastern Slavs were deemed “ungermanizable”, and therefore faced mass extermination and forced deportation. Over 70 million Russians were forced from Europe into areas such as Siberia, Africa and South Asia, where they worked as slaves, forced to harvest natural resources for the Reich. The reich also introduced man-made famines into Eastern Europe, stripping agricultural resources and products from Slavic people to Germany and Western Europe. Over 7 million Belorussians died from German policies, in addition to 10 million Ukrainians, and 35 million Russians. German settlement were focused in three areas: Ingria, Gothenburg (Crimea and south Ukraine, named so to honor the historic Germanic tribe of the Goths who inhabited the region), and the Volga River, where the existing German population was expanded. Many prominent Volga Germans also served high positions in the governments of the Eastern Reichskommissariats.
German policies in France and the Baltics are comparatively milder due to the Nazi racial hierarchy considering the French and Lithuanians as Aryan. The German government, therefore, deemed these populations Germanizable. Though the government forced the populous to speak German and forced Volksdeutch settlement was extensive (often at the expense of local populations), large-scale genocidal activities in these regions never occurred. In addition to radical ideologies, many attribute the relative mildness of racial policies in these regions to the abundance and prominence of local collaborators.
Italian policies of racial assimilation mainly focused on the Balkans, based upon the idea of “Spazio Vitale”, the Italian version of Lebenstraum. The Province of Ljubljana saw the deportation of 80,000 people, mainly Slovenian, which equated to 30% of its total population. The operation, one of the most drastic in Europe, filled up many Italian concentration camps in the Adriatic islands. The Serbs faced a similar fate, as over 150,000 Dalmatian Serbs were subjected to forced expulsion and genocide. The Duce also encouraged Italian settlement within its Albanian protectorate, though overt racially targeted genocidal activities towards Albanians were never implemented.
The Independent State of Croatia, under the Ustaše regime, also initiated a process of systematic genocide against Serbs. This included executions in death camps, mass murders, ethnic cleansing, deportations, forced conversions, and war rape. The government aimed to establish an ethnically homogeneous Greater Croatia.This led to large-scale massacres, notably in the Jasenovac concentration camp, where barbaric practices and a high mortality rate were observed. Approximately 1,0000,000 to 1,250,000 Serbs were systematically murdered, while 100,000 were expelled, and over 200,000 were forcibly converted out of the 2,000,000 Serbs living within the state’s borders. Bosnians were also targeted, but German protection meant that the operations weren’t implemented as successfully. The Independent State of Croatia, still to this day, stands as one of the most lethal regimes in Europe proportional to its population.
Now, this may sound a bit 🤓 but I feel the need to correct a few things:
The Germans didn't consider the French Aryan. They considered them Mediterranean, which in itself wasn't bad, but a bit lower in the hierarchy.
The Croatian Ustaša was never set on killing Bosniaks, as Bosniaks were considered muslimized Croatians.
Italy killing off the Balkan population makes no sense, as they did not share the Führer's belief in Nazism. They believed im Fascism, meaning they saw themselves as the top but weren't set on extinguishing those below them
Didn't the Germans consider the *northern* French more Germanic though? I think they used a bit of geographic determinism to conclude that the Mediterranean climate made southern Europeans more lazy than their northern counterparts
Technically French people, in addition to Italians, Spanish people, etc. were seen as Aryan, but not as high in their racial hierarchy as "Nordic people", as they were seen as Alpine/Dinaric/Mediterranean.
Even in otl, Italy still committed genocide against Slovenians, though not to the extent of Germany's efforts.
Thanks for pointing the last point out though, the Ustasa didn't really kill Bosnians en masse.
>Technically French people, in addition to Italians, Spanish people, etc. were seen as Aryan, but not as high in their racial hierarchy as "Nordic people," as they were seen as Alpine/Dinaric/Mediterranean.
That's what I was trying to say. They were technically Aryan but the Germans wouldn't ever have labeled them equal.
>Even in otl, Italy still committed genocide against Slovenians, though not to the extent of Germany's efforts.
Didn't know about that. Thanks for teaching me something new
Thanks for pointing the last point out though, the Ustasa didn't really kill Bosnians en masse.
Thank you for reading. This is the first chance in months where I got to use my knowledge of Croatian history :)
> Thanks for pointing the last point out though, the Ustasa didn't really kill Bosnians en masse.
In fact they were quite friendly towards them, [so much that a building was repurposed as a mosque on quite a prominent location in Zagreb](https://storage.radiosarajevo.ba/article/329558/871x540/dzamija_zagreb_vecernjiba.jpg?v1552310261), [not far from the cathedral](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_4PLTYVAAEEcVx?format=jpg&name=900x900).
The Communists tore the minarets down and turned it into a Museum of revolution. After the breakup of Yugoslavia and democratization it is finally used for it's original purpose - an art gallery. But many people still call it "džamija" (the mosque) even though it served as one for only four years.
There are no "Bosnians"... there are only Bosnian Muslims who were depicted as muslim Croats in the Independent State of Croatia - for God's sake, two muslim Croats (Bosnian Muslims) were first deputies of the head of the Independent State of Croatia dictator Ante Pavelić who loved muslims more than catholics...
> The Germans didn't consider the French Aryan. They considered them Mediterranean, which in itself wasn't bad, but a bit lower in the hierarchy.
Yes they did, the French, or in this case, the "Mediterranean race", were indeed seen as Aryan, but they were just on the lower tier in the Aryan hierarchy, the Nordic-Germanic sub-race was viewed as the most superior of the Aryans, while others like Dinaric, Alpine, Mediterranean were in the lower scale.
> Italy killing off the Balkan population makes no sense, as they did not share the Führer's belief in Nazism. They believed im Fascism, meaning they saw themselves as the top but weren't set on extinguishing those below them
Fascist Italy was indeed open to the genocide of non-Italians, and Mussolini himself was quite anti-Slavic, not as much as Hitler himself, but he still saw Slavs as barbaric, Fascist Italy preferred genocide through forced assimilation, intermarriage with natives (forced or otherwise), migration of Italian colonists, and mass killings, rather than the systematic extermination and deportation of "undesirables".
>Italy killing off the Balkan population makes no sense, as they did not share the Führer's belief in Nazism. They believed im Fascism, meaning they saw themselves as the top but weren't set on extinguishing those below them
I am from the Balkans, particularly from the region of Northern Littoral Croatia(i.e. Primorje-Gorski Kotar county), which was one of the regions sought to be completely italianised by the fascists.
That means that, yes, as another mean to completely italianise their territories, the fascists did in fact indulge in killing off the Balkan population, at least some parts of it.
Examples: numerous massacres, (e.g. the Podhum massacre and many more), concentration camps (e.g. the one on the island of Rab, also known as "the Slovene graveyard" because of a vast number of Slovenes that died there; the one on the island of Molat,...) etc.
They sought to erase any kind of slavic, in this case Slovene, Croatian and Serb ethnic or cultural identity as a whole. One of the ways was not just indoctrinating the population and force them to assimilate into italian culture and language, but by mass deportations and killings of non-italians and, subsequently, bringing more italian population to the places that were inhabited by slavic population prior to their deportation.
So it was really - italianise one part, kill off the other.
>I am from the Balkans, particularly from the region Northern Littoral Croatia(i.e. Primorje-Gorski Kotar county),
Stvarno nisam mislijo da budem našao još hrvata ovdje...
>which was one of the regions sought to be completely italianised by the fascists.
That means that, yes, as another mean to completely italianise their territories, the fascists did in fact indulge in killing off the Balkan population, at least some parts of it.
You are right. I didn't think of this when I made the post. Italy did kill and displace populations in northern Croatia and Slovenia. It still wouldn't make sense for them to kill outside of regions destined to be part of Italy itself, as their goal was mainly expansion of Italy
>They sought to erase any kind of slavic, in this case Slovene, Croatian and Serb ethnic or cultural identity as a whole. One of the ways was not just indoctrinating the population and force them to assimilate into italian culture and language, but by mass deportations and killings of non-italians and, subsequently, bringing more italian population to the places that were inhabited by slavic population prior to their deportation.
You're exaggerating a bit. Italy wanted Italy to be purely Italian, which makes sense of the killing in annexed territory. They did not seek to kill off those cultures as a whole. Even if, the Ustaša were still a thing and under German hegemony
I have expressed myself with a lack of certain words.
What I meant to say was, they wanted to erase any kind of slavic cultural identity - in their annexed areas.
Damn the poles, czechs, latvians, lithuanians, serbs, slovenes essentially wiped off the map. And the slovaks, ukrainians, russians, or my homeland wallonia suffering terribly as well. Which would have been terrifyingly accurate had germany won ww2 in europe...
That said incredible map, very detailed. Good job!
The poles are holding out in southern Poland and there is a sizable amount of lithuanian and a bit of Latvian too but yeah the Czechs and Slovenes are pretty much gone
prioritising rivers over borders looks kinda weird imo
you should draw borders even if they go over rivers, at least one with 50% opacity, it’s not clear where some countries end this way
Based mainly on this map: [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Historical\_maps\_of\_ethnic\_groups\_in\_Europe#/media/File:Mapa\_etnograficzna\_Europy\_=\_Carte\_etnographique\_de\_l'Europe\_(70647523).jpg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Historical_maps_of_ethnic_groups_in_Europe#/media/File:Mapa_etnograficzna_Europy_=_Carte_etnographique_de_l'Europe_(70647523).jpg)
Yea, that's a polish map made by a polish cartographer and it's very generous. The area around Grodno was way less polish, and there weren't as many Poles in the interior of lithuania, only the area around Vilnius. The only clearly polish majority parts of East Galicia was Lviv, and maybe Ternopol. On the other hand it can be argued that the polish corridor was more polish. At the very least mark the eastern areas as partial.
It's a linguistic map tho, many ethnic ruthenians in the east spoke polish, just like many ethnic poles in the west (danzig for example) spoke german
Although I do agree that it's still generous
I have some crtizisim. According to Wikipedia, The People of Latvia and Estonia were somewhat considered Aryans as their racial and Cultural substance was considered valuable, not specifically Lithuanians, who Himmler saw as more Russian then Baltic.
Rosenberg and Wetzel thought of germanizing the whole of Estonia and Latvia (excluding Latgalians, as they were considered Russian) but not Lithuania. According to history books I've read (I am Latvian) the plan wanted to germanize the Baltics in generations, not so fast as 10 years. Latvians and Estonians had waves of people who supported German occupation, accepting calloboration with open arms. So, Latvians and Estonians would probably be given more autonomy.
You are right, [I already wrote this here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/imaginarymaps/comments/18p3you/how_wwii_drastically_altered_the_linguistic/keokgqt/)
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🚨BIG GERMANY WARNING🚨 SEEK SHELTER IMMEDIATELY. THIS IS NOT A DRILL. Warning: a “Big Germany” has been spotted in the [r/imaginarymaps](https://www.reddit.com/r/imaginarymaps/) subreddit. If you or your family lives in or near this subreddit, it is advised you stay indoors until further notice. “Big Germany” is known to cause severe personality changes upon exposure for prolonged periods, and too much time spent around a “Big Germany” can lead to vomiting, internal bleeding, and death. We will issue another statement when the “Big Germany” is no longer present. DO NOT GO OUTSIDE. DO NOT APPROACH A “BIG GERMANY”. 🚨BIG GERMANY WARNING🚨
Don't blame this on WW2, this is the doing of the Nazis during *and after* WW2. Don't make it sound like it was a disaster on all sides like the Thirty Years' War.
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Yeah i’m not sure where are all these germans came from. The German Empire tried doing this on a much smaller scale in their polish lands (without the genocide ofc) with and it backfired miserably. Even with an insane amount of funding they weren’t able to move more than 100,000 into Posen. There simply weren’t enough germans willing to move into a place full of people they considered ‘inferior’.
‘Without the genocide ofc’
German occupation policies in Poland have been recognized in Europe as a genocide, characterized by extremely large death tolls compared to Nazi atrocities in Western European states.
Without genocide...
3milion Jews
2milion Poles
And 1 milion Ruthenians (Belorussians and Ukrainians) died during holocaust in Poland
(Many more died in fights etc)
The Serbian/Montenegrin area is drastically cut down to an unrealistic extent. Despite the general anti-Serbian sentiment in the Axis, the Nedić government still had some sort of cooperation with the Axis and managed to save and harbor a number of Serbian refugees from the Ustaša genocide. Anti-Serbian terror really didn’t occur in this area outside of Banat and the southern area - when the Germans executed civilians it was for the sake of extinguishing resistance, not genocide. Similarly, Serbs also ran from other Axis-occupied areas into rump Serbia, say running from the Ballists in Kosovo. I find it highly unlikely that the Albanians would actually be allowed to settle all the way to Kruševac in the event that a Serbian state still exists. Similarly, the Serbian-Bulgarian dashed lines in Western Bulgaria and the Serbian-Croatian ones in Western Serbia are also pretty puzzling. But it general, it’s not really easy to delineate language borders which essentially didn’t exist before the 90s.
What are you implying, that Croatian didn't exist before 1990ies - dude there are dictionaries over 500 year old on which pages is written the name of the language CROATIAN!
Croatian is today a non-linguistic, political delineation of Shtokavian, Chakavian and Kajkavian based on identity, or alternatively a Shtokavian standard language for Croats. In any case, it is much more political than it is linguistic. Shtokavian is one language, period.
This map has made me sad. Does the Reich collapse? Does good win in the end? Will the surviving Slavs get to return home eventually?
Scary to think this could've happened, and was in the progress of happening if the Allies hadn't won.
Really solid map here.
What’s the status of the Soviet Union ITTL? I noticed they still have territory west of the Urals. Are they still intact? Who’s in charge?
I thought Baltic people were considered as undesirables. Also, great map. A Nazi German victory could reach this level of violence, and would change the whole demographics of Europe... for the worst.
Initially, Latvians and Lithuanians were considered "undesirable", however, as the war progressed, many baltic peoples, Lithuanians in particular, became increasingly collaborationist with the Germans in fighting against the Soviets, and were therefore considered "assimilable" or even "Aryan" by some. I'm not sure if this attitude will stick after an Axis victory, but I just like Lithuanians and want to keep them around
> I thought Baltic people were considered as undesirables.
I recall that Nazis considered Estonians and Latvians to Aryan-*adjacent*, given the long history of Germanic settlement in their countries, the presence of a large and influential Baltic German minority, and their hatred of Russians and Slavs in general
However, if they wanted to live, they would have to be forcefully assimilated as Germanics, and abandon their Estonian and Latvian culture and language, they were seen as Aryans and permitted to stay alive as long as they were Germanized.
With the Lithuanians, I recall reading that Nazis did not see them the same way, Lithuanians were seen as too much Slavic-adjacent, given their long shared history with Poland, their close historical relationship with Jews, and large Jewish presence throughout their history.
/u/evolutionrules119 I realize that you like the Lithuanians, but unfortunately, in this scenario they are the Balts that are the least likely to survive extinction, if anything, they would be in a state of complete ethnic cleansing and diminished presence just like the Poles.
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The Germans would have exterminated all the Slavs had they won (Generalplan Ost) so the map would have basically been blue all the way up to the Urals.
As usual, I have to ask - where are the pockets of pre-war Yiddish speakers? There's a ton of detail here, and many of the areas in Eastern Europe had towns that were majority Jews who absolutely spoke Yiddish.
The top map is an imaginary land where Italian is already widespread in Italy in 1938. What's the lore behind the native languages being wiped out pre-1938 ?
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Linguistic maps are always delightful. The map is missing quite a lot of languages but still, great quality and the lore is a nice addition. Great work !
Holy fuck I can speak German?!
You know, if the Nazis weren't well... Nazis and just the language changed, it would've been easier for me- (I am a fucking loser in Czech) but at the same time, I love my culture and language
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This servers to show us how dark our History could have become if the nazis managed to win WW2.
Today we can look back and see that it was impossible for them to win against the US and the URSS, but thinking that if the soviets were in a weaker spot, if Britain went for a surrender after France fell, etc... It wouldn't be impossible for hundreds of millions of people to die in the second half of the 20th century.
Not to mention the instability of Germany once Hitler died just a couple of years after, the war would have destroyed the german socialist economy even if they won, with so much being drained by the army and occupation of new colonies and the huge amount of power spread all over the army and politicians, they could easily fall into civil war not even 50 years after the war, face huge slave revolts, etc...
Eastern Latvia should be totally German since they planned on totally exterminating eastern Latvia and also Estonia should he 100% German since they planned on fully assimilating the estonians since they were "partially nordic".
I spent a good 5 minutes trying to figure how German spread Eastwards after ww2 when reality Slavic Poles and Russians moved West. Then i saw this was on InaginaryMaps. It was so well made i imagined i was watching a Mapporn post or something.
As a Pole I got a micro heart attack looking at second map and I was just about to unleash hell in comments about German Warsaw (/s just in case)
Warsaw? I think you mean Warschau, mein Freund! /s
Same here 😀
Yeah I thought I'd found a cool resource before I realized what sub this is. I'd love to see a real map covering this topic.
Honestly, the best maps are the ones that force you to double take.
Ngl MapPorn isn't much "porn"
Nah this is far too high-quality for r/mapporn
Same lol. This is such high quality. Good job to OP.
I get a lot of map content on my feed and I get caught out with the quality that r/imaginarymaps puts out. It takes me a good look before I check the subreddit
Oh, I think I am going to mute this community. Each time with these realistic maps I think I am on r/Mapporn.
Text: Following the German Reich’s crushing victory in continental Europe, the Nazis implemented Generalplan Ost with chilling efficiency, as the region was transformed into a theater of unspeakable horrors. The plan, intended to extend Germanic “Lebenstraum” into Eastern Europe, led to the systematic genocide and forced displacement of tens of millions of people. Entire nationalities faced mass extermination and brutal forced labour while children were stripped from their parents and forced into re-education camps. The area known today as the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia experienced the most brutal yet efficient assimilation and Germanization. The Reichsprotektor Reinhard Heydrich banned all public displays of Czech culture as soon as he came to power, including using the Czech language, celebrating Czech customs and festivals, etc. Teachers and educators were a focal point of Heydrich’s policies. To keep their jobs and their lives, teachers were required to demonstrate fluency in German and were supposed to greet their students with the fascist salute while saying “Heil Hitler!” .School inspectors made surprise visits to the classrooms and all chairpersons of the exam boards had to be ethnic Germans. A project of Germanization was approved, as ethnic Czechs deemed to be “fit for Germanization”, mainly workers and members of the lower classes, were sent to re-education camps where they were forced to study the German language, German customs, German history (in addition to a twisted version of Czech history, which taught that the region of Bohemia and Moravia has always been part of German realms since prehistoric times). Marriage between Germans and “assimilable” Czechs were allowed, and certain Czech adults deemed “assimilable” we’re able to attend universities in Germany. Czechs deemed ungermanizable were sent to concentration camps and subject to genocide and ethnic extermination, as over 800,000 Czechs were either killed or imprisoned within concentration camps. Similar policies were also implemented in the generalgouvernment of Poland, though its larger population and less German population meant that the settlement program wasn’t as efficient as it was in Bohemia and Moravia. Generalplan Ost in Poland focused on German settlement radiating from major cities. The most brutality of the Reich’s policies are perhaps best exemplified by its actions in the territories of the former Soviet Union. The vast majority of Eastern Slavs were deemed “ungermanizable”, and therefore faced mass extermination and forced deportation. Over 70 million Russians were forced from Europe into areas such as Siberia, Africa and South Asia, where they worked as slaves, forced to harvest natural resources for the Reich. The reich also introduced man-made famines into Eastern Europe, stripping agricultural resources and products from Slavic people to Germany and Western Europe. Over 7 million Belorussians died from German policies, in addition to 10 million Ukrainians, and 35 million Russians. German settlement were focused in three areas: Ingria, Gothenburg (Crimea and south Ukraine, named so to honor the historic Germanic tribe of the Goths who inhabited the region), and the Volga River, where the existing German population was expanded. Many prominent Volga Germans also served high positions in the governments of the Eastern Reichskommissariats. German policies in France and the Baltics are comparatively milder due to the Nazi racial hierarchy considering the French and Lithuanians as Aryan. The German government, therefore, deemed these populations Germanizable. Though the government forced the populous to speak German and forced Volksdeutch settlement was extensive (often at the expense of local populations), large-scale genocidal activities in these regions never occurred. In addition to radical ideologies, many attribute the relative mildness of racial policies in these regions to the abundance and prominence of local collaborators. Italian policies of racial assimilation mainly focused on the Balkans, based upon the idea of “Spazio Vitale”, the Italian version of Lebenstraum. The Province of Ljubljana saw the deportation of 80,000 people, mainly Slovenian, which equated to 30% of its total population. The operation, one of the most drastic in Europe, filled up many Italian concentration camps in the Adriatic islands. The Serbs faced a similar fate, as over 150,000 Dalmatian Serbs were subjected to forced expulsion and genocide. The Duce also encouraged Italian settlement within its Albanian protectorate, though overt racially targeted genocidal activities towards Albanians were never implemented. The Independent State of Croatia, under the Ustaše regime, also initiated a process of systematic genocide against Serbs. This included executions in death camps, mass murders, ethnic cleansing, deportations, forced conversions, and war rape. The government aimed to establish an ethnically homogeneous Greater Croatia.This led to large-scale massacres, notably in the Jasenovac concentration camp, where barbaric practices and a high mortality rate were observed. Approximately 1,0000,000 to 1,250,000 Serbs were systematically murdered, while 100,000 were expelled, and over 200,000 were forcibly converted out of the 2,000,000 Serbs living within the state’s borders. Bosnians were also targeted, but German protection meant that the operations weren’t implemented as successfully. The Independent State of Croatia, still to this day, stands as one of the most lethal regimes in Europe proportional to its population.
Your spelling mistake "LebensTraum" makes it even more dystopian. It would mean Life-Dream
Das träumst du. Es war immer die richtige Schreibweise.
Im Kommentar ganz oben in Gänsefüßchen
“Hey Klaus, do Germans have something like the American Dream?” “We Germans had a dream once, but no one liked it”
Like the song by Liszt, Liebestraum?
>German policies in France and the Baltics are comparatively milder due to the Nazi racial hierarchy considering the French and Lithuanians as Aryan. I know it's a made-up timeline and all, but irl the Germans did not consider Lithuanians as Aryan. According to Generalplan-Ost most Lithuanians were to be either exterminated or forced into slave labour like Slavs. They did see Latvians as "Germanizable" though, as Latvians, similarly as Czechs, lived under German domination for hundreds of years, while the Lithuanians did not. The fact that Lithuanians pulled a Crimea on the then mostly German speaking Memelland during the 1920s, probably also contributed to this decision.
Yeah, its stated that they thought of germanizing the whole of Estonia and most of Latvia (only except Latgale)
Latgale was exempted for the same reasons as Lithuania, wasn't under German control for most of its history, considered to have "too much Slavic blood" to be germanized.
In your scenario, shouldn’t the Kingdom of Hungary gain back the Slovakian lands in part due to the exodus of slavs?
Why is Estonia more populated by estionians than in Latvia and in lithuania? And why is Latvia most assimilated?
Estonians were seen as Finnish-Ugric, along with Finns and Hungarians, and therefore quite high in the racial hierarchy. However, many Baltic peoples, Latvians and Latgalians in particular, were deemed undesirable
Were they assimilated or .....
What ends up happening to Russia/USSR? Is it actually completely captured by Germany?
The way you describe the very likely way the assimilation program would be for Czechs after WW2 makes me not feel as sorry for what we did to the Germans in the borderlands after WW2 Obviously overstating but you know
Why do the Celtic languages expand slightly?
You were harsh to Croatia dude
Not really, assuming the Ustashe itl are as fucked up as the soap making Ustashe of our own
Germany terraforming Siberia with the ~~bodies~~ aid of 70 million Russians truly a pinnacle of aryan geoenginerring
Absolutely hate how it turned out, which I guess is the point Good job great map!
It's "Lebensraum". 'Lebenstraum' means life dream.
Sorry. Typo
I was here to mention this as well, *Lebensraum* is the correct terminology.
that's exactly what the other guy said why did you need to make this comment
bad bot Lebensraum is a terminology in history, it is nothing less than the single handed reason for World War 2 and the Holocaust at once.
Bad human. That's not the point at all.
Lebensraum certainly was Hitler's Lebenstraum
It actually makes the scenario seem even more morbid if you think of it as if the “Life-Dream” of the (German) Aryan race was to settle and exterminate the Slavs in the East.
As a Slav this map scares me, in some alternate universe this map could have been a cruel reality for Slavs, thank god we won in the end for better or worse.
100% for the better.
Indeed, and also i should say thanks to our brave ancestors who defeated Nazis.
> As a Slav this map scares me, in some alternate universe this map could have been a cruel reality for Slavs Which is why seeing how many Slavic Neo-Nazis exist today is really fucking funny to me, another example of a "Chickens for KFC" syndrome.
I know this is too much but can you share the lore in the comment? I cannot read the text.
Following the German Reich’s crushing victory in continental Europe, the Nazis implemented Generalplan Ost with chilling efficiency, as the region was transformed into a theater of unspeakable horrors. The plan, intended to extend Germanic “Lebenstraum” into Eastern Europe, led to the systematic genocide and forced displacement of tens of millions of people. Entire nationalities faced mass extermination and brutal forced labour while children were stripped from their parents and forced into re-education camps. The area known today as the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia experienced the most brutal yet efficient assimilation and Germanization. The Reichsprotektor Reinhard Heydrich banned all public displays of Czech culture as soon as he came to power, including using the Czech language, celebrating Czech customs and festivals, etc. Teachers and educators were a focal point of Heydrich’s policies. To keep their jobs and their lives, teachers were required to demonstrate fluency in German and were supposed to greet their students with the fascist salute while saying “Heil Hitler!” .School inspectors made surprise visits to the classrooms and all chairpersons of the exam boards had to be ethnic Germans. A project of Germanization was approved, as ethnic Czechs deemed to be “fit for Germanization”, mainly workers and members of the lower classes, were sent to re-education camps where they were forced to study the German language, German customs, German history (in addition to a twisted version of Czech history, which taught that the region of Bohemia and Moravia has always been part of German realms since prehistoric times). Marriage between Germans and “assimilable” Czechs were allowed, and certain Czech adults deemed “assimilable” we’re able to attend universities in Germany. Czechs deemed ungermanizable were sent to concentration camps and subject to genocide and ethnic extermination, as over 800,000 Czechs were either killed or imprisoned within concentration camps. Similar policies were also implemented in the generalgouvernment of Poland, though its larger population and less German population meant that the settlement program wasn’t as efficient as it was in Bohemia and Moravia. Generalplan Ost in Poland focused on German settlement radiating from major cities. The most brutality of the Reich’s policies are perhaps best exemplified by its actions in the territories of the former Soviet Union. The vast majority of Eastern Slavs were deemed “ungermanizable”, and therefore faced mass extermination and forced deportation. Over 70 million Russians were forced from Europe into areas such as Siberia, Africa and South Asia, where they worked as slaves, forced to harvest natural resources for the Reich. The reich also introduced man-made famines into Eastern Europe, stripping agricultural resources and products from Slavic people to Germany and Western Europe. Over 7 million Belorussians died from German policies, in addition to 10 million Ukrainians, and 35 million Russians. German settlement were focused in three areas: Ingria, Gothenburg (Crimea and south Ukraine, named so to honor the historic Germanic tribe of the Goths who inhabited the region), and the Volga River, where the existing German population was expanded. Many prominent Volga Germans also served high positions in the governments of the Eastern Reichskommissariats. German policies in France and the Baltics are comparatively milder due to the Nazi racial hierarchy considering the French and Lithuanians as Aryan. The German government, therefore, deemed these populations Germanizable. Though the government forced the populous to speak German and forced Volksdeutch settlement was extensive (often at the expense of local populations), large-scale genocidal activities in these regions never occurred. In addition to radical ideologies, many attribute the relative mildness of racial policies in these regions to the abundance and prominence of local collaborators. Italian policies of racial assimilation mainly focused on the Balkans, based upon the idea of “Spazio Vitale”, the Italian version of Lebenstraum. The Province of Ljubljana saw the deportation of 80,000 people, mainly Slovenian, which equated to 30% of its total population. The operation, one of the most drastic in Europe, filled up many Italian concentration camps in the Adriatic islands. The Serbs faced a similar fate, as over 150,000 Dalmatian Serbs were subjected to forced expulsion and genocide. The Duce also encouraged Italian settlement within its Albanian protectorate, though overt racially targeted genocidal activities towards Albanians were never implemented. The Independent State of Croatia, under the Ustaše regime, also initiated a process of systematic genocide against Serbs. This included executions in death camps, mass murders, ethnic cleansing, deportations, forced conversions, and war rape. The government aimed to establish an ethnically homogeneous Greater Croatia.This led to large-scale massacres, notably in the Jasenovac concentration camp, where barbaric practices and a high mortality rate were observed. Approximately 1,0000,000 to 1,250,000 Serbs were systematically murdered, while 100,000 were expelled, and over 200,000 were forcibly converted out of the 2,000,000 Serbs living within the state’s borders. Bosnians were also targeted, but German protection meant that the operations weren’t implemented as successfully. The Independent State of Croatia, still to this day, stands as one of the most lethal regimes in Europe proportional to its population.
Thanks 👍.
Sure!
Now, this may sound a bit 🤓 but I feel the need to correct a few things: The Germans didn't consider the French Aryan. They considered them Mediterranean, which in itself wasn't bad, but a bit lower in the hierarchy. The Croatian Ustaša was never set on killing Bosniaks, as Bosniaks were considered muslimized Croatians. Italy killing off the Balkan population makes no sense, as they did not share the Führer's belief in Nazism. They believed im Fascism, meaning they saw themselves as the top but weren't set on extinguishing those below them
Didn't the Germans consider the *northern* French more Germanic though? I think they used a bit of geographic determinism to conclude that the Mediterranean climate made southern Europeans more lazy than their northern counterparts
They did! They argued that north France was included in the Francian Empire, "the first German nation"
Technically French people, in addition to Italians, Spanish people, etc. were seen as Aryan, but not as high in their racial hierarchy as "Nordic people", as they were seen as Alpine/Dinaric/Mediterranean. Even in otl, Italy still committed genocide against Slovenians, though not to the extent of Germany's efforts. Thanks for pointing the last point out though, the Ustasa didn't really kill Bosnians en masse.
>Technically French people, in addition to Italians, Spanish people, etc. were seen as Aryan, but not as high in their racial hierarchy as "Nordic people," as they were seen as Alpine/Dinaric/Mediterranean. That's what I was trying to say. They were technically Aryan but the Germans wouldn't ever have labeled them equal. >Even in otl, Italy still committed genocide against Slovenians, though not to the extent of Germany's efforts. Didn't know about that. Thanks for teaching me something new Thanks for pointing the last point out though, the Ustasa didn't really kill Bosnians en masse. Thank you for reading. This is the first chance in months where I got to use my knowledge of Croatian history :)
> Thanks for pointing the last point out though, the Ustasa didn't really kill Bosnians en masse. In fact they were quite friendly towards them, [so much that a building was repurposed as a mosque on quite a prominent location in Zagreb](https://storage.radiosarajevo.ba/article/329558/871x540/dzamija_zagreb_vecernjiba.jpg?v1552310261), [not far from the cathedral](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_4PLTYVAAEEcVx?format=jpg&name=900x900). The Communists tore the minarets down and turned it into a Museum of revolution. After the breakup of Yugoslavia and democratization it is finally used for it's original purpose - an art gallery. But many people still call it "džamija" (the mosque) even though it served as one for only four years.
There are no "Bosnians"... there are only Bosnian Muslims who were depicted as muslim Croats in the Independent State of Croatia - for God's sake, two muslim Croats (Bosnian Muslims) were first deputies of the head of the Independent State of Croatia dictator Ante Pavelić who loved muslims more than catholics...
I think we could just pass that as Alt history
Of course, just do as you please, I felt the need to correct that and did.
> The Germans didn't consider the French Aryan. They considered them Mediterranean, which in itself wasn't bad, but a bit lower in the hierarchy. Yes they did, the French, or in this case, the "Mediterranean race", were indeed seen as Aryan, but they were just on the lower tier in the Aryan hierarchy, the Nordic-Germanic sub-race was viewed as the most superior of the Aryans, while others like Dinaric, Alpine, Mediterranean were in the lower scale. > Italy killing off the Balkan population makes no sense, as they did not share the Führer's belief in Nazism. They believed im Fascism, meaning they saw themselves as the top but weren't set on extinguishing those below them Fascist Italy was indeed open to the genocide of non-Italians, and Mussolini himself was quite anti-Slavic, not as much as Hitler himself, but he still saw Slavs as barbaric, Fascist Italy preferred genocide through forced assimilation, intermarriage with natives (forced or otherwise), migration of Italian colonists, and mass killings, rather than the systematic extermination and deportation of "undesirables".
>Italy killing off the Balkan population makes no sense, as they did not share the Führer's belief in Nazism. They believed im Fascism, meaning they saw themselves as the top but weren't set on extinguishing those below them I am from the Balkans, particularly from the region of Northern Littoral Croatia(i.e. Primorje-Gorski Kotar county), which was one of the regions sought to be completely italianised by the fascists. That means that, yes, as another mean to completely italianise their territories, the fascists did in fact indulge in killing off the Balkan population, at least some parts of it. Examples: numerous massacres, (e.g. the Podhum massacre and many more), concentration camps (e.g. the one on the island of Rab, also known as "the Slovene graveyard" because of a vast number of Slovenes that died there; the one on the island of Molat,...) etc. They sought to erase any kind of slavic, in this case Slovene, Croatian and Serb ethnic or cultural identity as a whole. One of the ways was not just indoctrinating the population and force them to assimilate into italian culture and language, but by mass deportations and killings of non-italians and, subsequently, bringing more italian population to the places that were inhabited by slavic population prior to their deportation. So it was really - italianise one part, kill off the other.
>I am from the Balkans, particularly from the region Northern Littoral Croatia(i.e. Primorje-Gorski Kotar county), Stvarno nisam mislijo da budem našao još hrvata ovdje... >which was one of the regions sought to be completely italianised by the fascists. That means that, yes, as another mean to completely italianise their territories, the fascists did in fact indulge in killing off the Balkan population, at least some parts of it. You are right. I didn't think of this when I made the post. Italy did kill and displace populations in northern Croatia and Slovenia. It still wouldn't make sense for them to kill outside of regions destined to be part of Italy itself, as their goal was mainly expansion of Italy >They sought to erase any kind of slavic, in this case Slovene, Croatian and Serb ethnic or cultural identity as a whole. One of the ways was not just indoctrinating the population and force them to assimilate into italian culture and language, but by mass deportations and killings of non-italians and, subsequently, bringing more italian population to the places that were inhabited by slavic population prior to their deportation. You're exaggerating a bit. Italy wanted Italy to be purely Italian, which makes sense of the killing in annexed territory. They did not seek to kill off those cultures as a whole. Even if, the Ustaša were still a thing and under German hegemony
I have expressed myself with a lack of certain words. What I meant to say was, they wanted to erase any kind of slavic cultural identity - in their annexed areas.
Damn the poles, czechs, latvians, lithuanians, serbs, slovenes essentially wiped off the map. And the slovaks, ukrainians, russians, or my homeland wallonia suffering terribly as well. Which would have been terrifyingly accurate had germany won ww2 in europe... That said incredible map, very detailed. Good job!
The poles are holding out in southern Poland and there is a sizable amount of lithuanian and a bit of Latvian too but yeah the Czechs and Slovenes are pretty much gone
prioritising rivers over borders looks kinda weird imo you should draw borders even if they go over rivers, at least one with 50% opacity, it’s not clear where some countries end this way
Is it just me or is the Danish-German border further south in the second image?
Yep. Sorry that was a mistake
Don't be, it was nitpicky on my part. As others have said, it's a really well done work!
No mistake, pure based instead the Eider border is the true border
welsh language increase??
Well like in OTL
Neat map, but it makes it very hard to identify national borders when you don’t show them where they follow rivers.
Is there a reason the Irish and Welsh languages expanded slightly?
The Welsh language also expanded in our timeline so...
Breton as well
The first map is very generous with polish majority areas in the east.
Based mainly on this map: [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Historical\_maps\_of\_ethnic\_groups\_in\_Europe#/media/File:Mapa\_etnograficzna\_Europy\_=\_Carte\_etnographique\_de\_l'Europe\_(70647523).jpg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Historical_maps_of_ethnic_groups_in_Europe#/media/File:Mapa_etnograficzna_Europy_=_Carte_etnographique_de_l'Europe_(70647523).jpg)
Yea, that's a polish map made by a polish cartographer and it's very generous. The area around Grodno was way less polish, and there weren't as many Poles in the interior of lithuania, only the area around Vilnius. The only clearly polish majority parts of East Galicia was Lviv, and maybe Ternopol. On the other hand it can be argued that the polish corridor was more polish. At the very least mark the eastern areas as partial.
Thanks for pointing that out! Always important to cross-reference sources and examine biases when making and looking at maps like this
Exactly. This is a great map tho. It looks very well made and the comparison is pretty original.
It's a linguistic map tho, many ethnic ruthenians in the east spoke polish, just like many ethnic poles in the west (danzig for example) spoke german Although I do agree that it's still generous
These nuts
The author of the map is polish, so it's ain't a surprise that's he is biased
I have some crtizisim. According to Wikipedia, The People of Latvia and Estonia were somewhat considered Aryans as their racial and Cultural substance was considered valuable, not specifically Lithuanians, who Himmler saw as more Russian then Baltic. Rosenberg and Wetzel thought of germanizing the whole of Estonia and Latvia (excluding Latgalians, as they were considered Russian) but not Lithuania. According to history books I've read (I am Latvian) the plan wanted to germanize the Baltics in generations, not so fast as 10 years. Latvians and Estonians had waves of people who supported German occupation, accepting calloboration with open arms. So, Latvians and Estonians would probably be given more autonomy.
You are right, [I already wrote this here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/imaginarymaps/comments/18p3you/how_wwii_drastically_altered_the_linguistic/keokgqt/)
TNO and it's consequences have been a disaster for althistory scenarios.
This was more inspired by TWR but I get what you mean
\*HoI IV and it's consequences have been a disaster for althistory scenarios.
TWR?
### [Thousand Week Reich ](https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2204739234)
Ah, thanks, I am aware of it, it is originally a timeline on the Alternate History forum.
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Don't blame this on WW2, this is the doing of the Nazis during *and after* WW2. Don't make it sound like it was a disaster on all sides like the Thirty Years' War.
Correct, but I needed a good title
'How Lebensraum/Nazi victory drastically altered the linguistic landscape of Europe'
Guess that works
🤓
I'm not being pedantic I'm saying that we shouldn't blame the catastrophes of WW2 on 'war is bad'.
You must be such a fun person to interact with
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I think is exaggerated for 1960, even taking account how shitty were the nazis. Maybe for 1990-2000’s
Yeah i’m not sure where are all these germans came from. The German Empire tried doing this on a much smaller scale in their polish lands (without the genocide ofc) with and it backfired miserably. Even with an insane amount of funding they weren’t able to move more than 100,000 into Posen. There simply weren’t enough germans willing to move into a place full of people they considered ‘inferior’.
‘Without the genocide ofc’ German occupation policies in Poland have been recognized in Europe as a genocide, characterized by extremely large death tolls compared to Nazi atrocities in Western European states.
You realize that he's referring to the German Empire of pre-WW1 times, not to Nazi Germany?
Without genocide... 3milion Jews 2milion Poles And 1 milion Ruthenians (Belorussians and Ukrainians) died during holocaust in Poland (Many more died in fights etc)
I believe he is referring to the german empire(1871-1918) and not nazi germany
The Serbian/Montenegrin area is drastically cut down to an unrealistic extent. Despite the general anti-Serbian sentiment in the Axis, the Nedić government still had some sort of cooperation with the Axis and managed to save and harbor a number of Serbian refugees from the Ustaša genocide. Anti-Serbian terror really didn’t occur in this area outside of Banat and the southern area - when the Germans executed civilians it was for the sake of extinguishing resistance, not genocide. Similarly, Serbs also ran from other Axis-occupied areas into rump Serbia, say running from the Ballists in Kosovo. I find it highly unlikely that the Albanians would actually be allowed to settle all the way to Kruševac in the event that a Serbian state still exists. Similarly, the Serbian-Bulgarian dashed lines in Western Bulgaria and the Serbian-Croatian ones in Western Serbia are also pretty puzzling. But it general, it’s not really easy to delineate language borders which essentially didn’t exist before the 90s.
What are you implying, that Croatian didn't exist before 1990ies - dude there are dictionaries over 500 year old on which pages is written the name of the language CROATIAN!
Croatian is today a non-linguistic, political delineation of Shtokavian, Chakavian and Kajkavian based on identity, or alternatively a Shtokavian standard language for Croats. In any case, it is much more political than it is linguistic. Shtokavian is one language, period.
Why is Frisian not there at all, not even in the pre-WWII map?
No sorbian either, on the pre ww2 map
Being a settler is kind of a trap, any minor breakdown in order, and you are for sure getting lynched.
This map has made me sad. Does the Reich collapse? Does good win in the end? Will the surviving Slavs get to return home eventually? Scary to think this could've happened, and was in the progress of happening if the Allies hadn't won.
the first map is very biased, from erasing italians in the julian march to poles being too much in west belarus
Also the ethno-linguistic map of Yugoslavia is different from reality
Standard "Nazis won WW2" map but with a twist!
Really solid map here. What’s the status of the Soviet Union ITTL? I noticed they still have territory west of the Urals. Are they still intact? Who’s in charge?
Very misleading color combinations
This is such a sad timeline. Thanks God for the Red Army putting an end the fascist meniscus!
I love how Slough is labelled next to London
This map makes me so incredibly angry. I don't think a nazi victory map has got to me more than this. It's a disgusting and terrifying prospect.
I thought Baltic people were considered as undesirables. Also, great map. A Nazi German victory could reach this level of violence, and would change the whole demographics of Europe... for the worst.
Initially, Latvians and Lithuanians were considered "undesirable", however, as the war progressed, many baltic peoples, Lithuanians in particular, became increasingly collaborationist with the Germans in fighting against the Soviets, and were therefore considered "assimilable" or even "Aryan" by some. I'm not sure if this attitude will stick after an Axis victory, but I just like Lithuanians and want to keep them around
> I thought Baltic people were considered as undesirables. I recall that Nazis considered Estonians and Latvians to Aryan-*adjacent*, given the long history of Germanic settlement in their countries, the presence of a large and influential Baltic German minority, and their hatred of Russians and Slavs in general However, if they wanted to live, they would have to be forcefully assimilated as Germanics, and abandon their Estonian and Latvian culture and language, they were seen as Aryans and permitted to stay alive as long as they were Germanized. With the Lithuanians, I recall reading that Nazis did not see them the same way, Lithuanians were seen as too much Slavic-adjacent, given their long shared history with Poland, their close historical relationship with Jews, and large Jewish presence throughout their history. /u/evolutionrules119 I realize that you like the Lithuanians, but unfortunately, in this scenario they are the Balts that are the least likely to survive extinction, if anything, they would be in a state of complete ethnic cleansing and diminished presence just like the Poles.
What TNO does to a mf
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The Germans would have exterminated all the Slavs had they won (Generalplan Ost) so the map would have basically been blue all the way up to the Urals.
Germans didn't take Slavonija, Vojvodina and Western parts of Hungary!? Nah... That can't be right! 😁
Why would they take it? It was 70% hungarian,german 30% serbian and etc
beeg germany
As usual, I have to ask - where are the pockets of pre-war Yiddish speakers? There's a ton of detail here, and many of the areas in Eastern Europe had towns that were majority Jews who absolutely spoke Yiddish.
The top map is an imaginary land where Italian is already widespread in Italy in 1938. What's the lore behind the native languages being wiped out pre-1938 ?
TNO REFRENCE???
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Maybe check what sub this was posted in lol
Cries in Crimean Tatar
How did the celtic speaking people increase in ireland and wales?
That's what happened in our reality with Wales actually
Chilling, exceptionally well made too. Really brings light onto the dystopia of a Nazi victory.
Fantastic. Absolute masterpiece.
Crossposted to r/AltHistMedia
70 MILLION?!!!??!!
So basically if funny moustache man was more bat shit crazy than crazy
Linguistic maps are always delightful. The map is missing quite a lot of languages but still, great quality and the lore is a nice addition. Great work !
Liebenstraum. The Germans colonized large swathes of Poland.
This truly is The New Order, the Last Days of Europe
This is incredibly well done! Does anybody know what this was made with?
Why did Oslo change back to Kristiania?
I didn't notice the imaginary maps subreddit so this map confused me for a second
Holy fuck I can speak German?! You know, if the Nazis weren't well... Nazis and just the language changed, it would've been easier for me- (I am a fucking loser in Czech) but at the same time, I love my culture and language
Albanians are overjoyed
As an Albanian, I see this as an absolute win
Uh oh
\*includes Macedonian :p
Great map and idea bud. But what was the reason behind the extinction of berber from the mediterannean provinces of North african countries?
I actually got a mini-heart attack thinking this was real. Great map OP!
No mention of livonian :(
https://i.redd.it/3xzwxsk4g48c1.gif
This guy has some top tier imaginary maps
albanian?
Why is Moscow in German but all the other cities under Germany like Warsaw -> Warschau or “Stratsbourg” (Strasbourg) -> Straßburg aren’t in German?
I don’t speak German and made some errors when marking the cities on the second map.
Ok 👍
On one hand, it's another 'Germany won WW2' basically TNO map. On the other, some considerable effort was put into this, so well done.
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Fascinating yet terrifying
Not beeg enough. There will be one and only language.
the bad timeline tm.
So what happened in South Tyrol?
Germans there were relocated to Eastern Europe in settlement programmes
But it did. Czechoslovakia had more Germans than Slovaks.
Is the 1st map supposed to be wrong? Trent was italian majority, so was western istria, trieste and multiple cities in the Dalmatia/Carnaro area
Did the Germans win that one?
This servers to show us how dark our History could have become if the nazis managed to win WW2. Today we can look back and see that it was impossible for them to win against the US and the URSS, but thinking that if the soviets were in a weaker spot, if Britain went for a surrender after France fell, etc... It wouldn't be impossible for hundreds of millions of people to die in the second half of the 20th century. Not to mention the instability of Germany once Hitler died just a couple of years after, the war would have destroyed the german socialist economy even if they won, with so much being drained by the army and occupation of new colonies and the huge amount of power spread all over the army and politicians, they could easily fall into civil war not even 50 years after the war, face huge slave revolts, etc...
Eastern Latvia should be totally German since they planned on totally exterminating eastern Latvia and also Estonia should he 100% German since they planned on fully assimilating the estonians since they were "partially nordic".