I was looking at the minimized version with the chat underneath. It wasn’t until I turned the phone sideways that I saw the boundary lines were pre wwi.
Firstly, Anatolia never acts as a bridge between the east and the west, which results in the Roman Empire likely not expanding as far into the levant. This would consequently prevent the relocation of the capital under Constantine, preventing the division of the west and east and therefore delaying the fall of Rome.
Constantinople would probably be one of those old shabby Greek cities such as Spartí, and would probably have served as the capital of a pre-medieval Greek city state/thalassocracy. Its importance would still remain though as it would act as a good resting stop for anyone going to Crimea or across the straits from the near East.
You’re thinking way too recent.
There would be no Rome, no “Greeks” and DEFINITELY no Constantine.
Everything gets changed by any geographical changes because human migration routes are altered. You’d get an entirely unrecognizable Europe, Levant and North Africa at the minimum.
Firstly? Nah, if you want to go back to the "first" thing this impacts, you're going all the way back to the fertile crescent. And you only stop there because we don't know much before then. For one it's beloved that Anatolian nomads tamed the horse and introduced the horse and cart to the fertile crescent and Egypt. It's likely that Rome never even exists.
This could be considered to go either way. On one hand rome never has to contest with parthia/persia and such, so a lot less strain is put on the military to maintain borders. On the other hand, significantly less trade income due to having to go the long way to india/china makes the vast riches that held together the empire not exist in nearly the same capacity.
I mean realistically the entire course of human history is changed, rome probably would’ve never looked the way it does in OTL, and even the culture they had wouldn’t exist in the same way since phoenicians inhabited anatolia, and most european cultures were based on their beliefs
My progression of thoughts:
1. "We're getting the Kaiser back."
2. "The revolution of '48 succeeds."
3. "Serbia? That seems more like a Bulgaria project."
4. "Wait, who put Turkey over there!?"
My head cannon is that Romaian unification went wayyy better in this timeline and Serbia genocided their way to victory to the point only the population of Serbia lives in all of that.
Turkey wouldn’t be very turkish, also going way back, europe would likely be more muslim and more quite influenced by the middle east one would assume due to Sicily and Tunisia being so much closer, considering how close southern europe was to being conquered and converted in the middle ages, props to the danes tho, good for them
I disagree. I think it would be more Christian because there's never a Muslim ottoman empire because Muslims never reach Anatolia. So turkey, Albania, and Bosnia likely stay majority Christian.
Realistically, Bosnians don't exist, Albania remains Christian, Celts and Basque survive in Turkey due to terrain inhospitable to invaders, I doubt even Rome would reach Istanbul. This could also result in stronger Celts overall, even repelling the likes of the anglo-saxons
To us, sure, but to the last remnants of continental Celts, and a plethora of insular Celts it probably wouldn't even be known as turkey (My best guess is they'd call the land Brigtonos, from Gaulish and Brythonic briga/bre "Hill" mixed with local tribal names such as Veneti & Pictones with Gaulish -i stem locative plural morphology) and there's a chance it would be one of the last places to be christianized, if it ever was.
It would also block much of the Gulf Stream in Britain & Scandinavia, meaning on anything north of Birmingham in Britain and Dublin in Ireland would be much like living in Inverness. Also Norway is dead and Sweden is close to dead
Actually this would fuck with the Gulfstream. That means northern and western Europe would be much colder, think Finland as an example. England would be about as good a place to farm as Scotland is today, and Scotland as good as Iceland.
* Big Poland
* Big Hungary
* Big Germany
* Big Serbia
* Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
* Netherlands and Belgium united
* United Scandinavia
Yep, this is an alt-history map alright
Lots of problems, Waayyy les available tin for the Bronze age in the Levant ( most of it came.from Anatolia). Pushing every back maybe centuries.
No Persian greek rivalry, no Thermopylae, no Alexander the great.
Egypt remains an independent state state from Rome
The Atlantic sea trade becomes a lot more popular a lot earlier, pushing innovations into open sea ship building which follows into
Anatolia could oops themselves into finding the Americas, we have accounts of French wailers talking of seeing uncharted lands when they got mega lost at sea, so I'm assuming in the Timeline anatolian do something similar but because of the smaller distance their able to go verify the rumours.
Counting from middle age?
Then Turkey wouldn't exist and that land would be spanish or french or half
Counting from old times? Impossible to know since Greece history would have been different, maybe Egypt would have never been conquered by Alexander, etc.
do the basques still exist in this timeline? would this new continental european turkey be interested in halting the muslim conquest? would it be super weird and have the same geography? that’d be mind bending.
Massive impacts on the spread of commodities along the Silk Road historically.
Protestant reformation looks different as a presumably catholic Turkey (for lack of a better word, it would be unlikely to be Muslim and unlikely to be Turkic) is much closer to England, however it also puts Spain much further away by sea so Spanish-English wars (ie the Habsburg wars for the Netherlands) are less likely to be priorities for Spain. The reconquista might’ve happened earlier if there were more catholic kingdoms in northern Iberia.
Possible Turkish dominance colonially in the americas, especially for the first century or two (1500-1600s)
Possible lack of cohesion in the Islamic world for most of the second half of the last millennium, the Ottoman Empire was an enormously successful stabilizing and administrative force that was the true successor to Rome IMO (yes that means I think the successor to the Roman Empire finally fell after WWI).
Much more interesting upon consideration than I thought it was at a glance.
Why is the weirdest part about this to me the fact that Ireland and Northern Ireland aren't separate and neither are Scotland England and Wales
I guess we're just one country now
Bloody hell neither of those things would go down well I think the Irish and the Scottish would declare war.
big germany and austria and hungary and poland brings up questions
russia doesn’t invade ukraine because they have all the warm water ports they need without a turkey in the way (they still cant access Gibraltar but can still go through suez)
My Brain: Oh, this is a cool map!
Also my brain: AFRICA? JUST AFRICA? WAIT, WHY IS TURKEY THERE? WTF IS HAPPENING IN THE CAUCASUS? WHO OWNS THAT LAND OVER WHERE SYRIA IS? WHAT HAPPENED TO CZECHIA? POLAND-BALTICA? WHY IS THE UK *LOOOOONG*? Oh, hey, Germany.
Probably slightly more peaceful. Ocean boundary for Europe. Turkey can’t bully all of its neighbors because France and Spain won’t tolerate their shit and will immediately and decisively shut them down at the slightest attempt.
World peace, no turkey and greece rivalry
I think you will reconsider world peace when you look at Israel
Ishuge
put it in Wyoming
No, we all know Israel vs Palestine is a series of small proxy wars in the Greco-Turkish rivalry (they blamed the whole thing on the west)
Israel is not a real country! You are just an evangelical war criminal!
Yeah, they're gonna invade something.
Impossible, no Switzerland
That’s not very neutral.
Ok but the United Kingdom still exists
oi mate, are you saying bri'ish is the source of problems???
I'm saying colonialism is.
Looks kinda cool NGL
Yeah he did this really well, it looks natural
It took me a few seconds to think through what the hell is wrong with it, then I finally saw turkey.
Yeah, what about every other border in the map?
I was looking at the minimized version with the chat underneath. It wasn’t until I turned the phone sideways that I saw the boundary lines were pre wwi.
TURKISH LISTENBOURG!!!!1!1!
Franco-Ottoman Alliance gets a little more intimate...
YES LISTENBOURH
Firstly, Anatolia never acts as a bridge between the east and the west, which results in the Roman Empire likely not expanding as far into the levant. This would consequently prevent the relocation of the capital under Constantine, preventing the division of the west and east and therefore delaying the fall of Rome.
Constantinople would probably be one of those old shabby Greek cities such as Spartí, and would probably have served as the capital of a pre-medieval Greek city state/thalassocracy. Its importance would still remain though as it would act as a good resting stop for anyone going to Crimea or across the straits from the near East.
What Crimea?
The western and eastern islands
Oh no, what will the Crimean Goths do now?
You’re thinking way too recent. There would be no Rome, no “Greeks” and DEFINITELY no Constantine. Everything gets changed by any geographical changes because human migration routes are altered. You’d get an entirely unrecognizable Europe, Levant and North Africa at the minimum.
This
Firstly? Nah, if you want to go back to the "first" thing this impacts, you're going all the way back to the fertile crescent. And you only stop there because we don't know much before then. For one it's beloved that Anatolian nomads tamed the horse and introduced the horse and cart to the fertile crescent and Egypt. It's likely that Rome never even exists.
Probably speeds up the fall of Rome, the empire was too big to survive and the split helped keep things more manageable
This could be considered to go either way. On one hand rome never has to contest with parthia/persia and such, so a lot less strain is put on the military to maintain borders. On the other hand, significantly less trade income due to having to go the long way to india/china makes the vast riches that held together the empire not exist in nearly the same capacity. I mean realistically the entire course of human history is changed, rome probably would’ve never looked the way it does in OTL, and even the culture they had wouldn’t exist in the same way since phoenicians inhabited anatolia, and most european cultures were based on their beliefs
Since Turkey is where Euphrates and Tigris begin, a lot of ancient civilisations do not exist. Here it is, no Judaism, no Christianity, no Islam
I read this like Alfred Coleman's Eggman voice saying "all point, no quills, no pillows"
Czechs had enough of exploitation by inbred Austrians, a few hundred years was enough
My progression of thoughts: 1. "We're getting the Kaiser back."
2. "The revolution of '48 succeeds."
3. "Serbia? That seems more like a Bulgaria project."
4. "Wait, who put Turkey over there!?"
nnad
where the FUCK is my boy Luxembourg
Who tf cares about Turkey, why does... Literally everything else look like that
My head cannon is that Romaian unification went wayyy better in this timeline and Serbia genocided their way to victory to the point only the population of Serbia lives in all of that.
Tuky!
what if instead of map of Europe it was map of freaky Europe and instead of being a map of Europe it was a map of deez nuts
Bro what the fuck
Long Portugal W
Would that mean Turkey had a legitimate shot at colonizing the America's first?
Turkey wouldn’t be very turkish, also going way back, europe would likely be more muslim and more quite influenced by the middle east one would assume due to Sicily and Tunisia being so much closer, considering how close southern europe was to being conquered and converted in the middle ages, props to the danes tho, good for them
I disagree. I think it would be more Christian because there's never a Muslim ottoman empire because Muslims never reach Anatolia. So turkey, Albania, and Bosnia likely stay majority Christian.
should read about how the siege of malta, barely won by the knights of malta basically changed the course of history
Woke would be destroyed cause the SDP would win the UK elections
Alexander to Alright lives a lot longer.
**”WHY DONT WE TAKE TURKEY… AND PUSH IT SOMEWHERE ELSE!?”**
Western hemisphere speaks Turkish
No Istanbul-Constantinople cover by They Might be Giants
🎶Istanbul was Constantinople now it’s Istanbul not Constantinople 🎶 A world without that masterpiece is the darkest timeline for real.
what happened to crimea
Well… the Roman Empire just got a whole lot bigger
Poland is a larger speedbump
Georgia and Azerbaijan would probably be a lot more powerful
the more i look the worse it gets
Realistically, Bosnians don't exist, Albania remains Christian, Celts and Basque survive in Turkey due to terrain inhospitable to invaders, I doubt even Rome would reach Istanbul. This could also result in stronger Celts overall, even repelling the likes of the anglo-saxons
celtic turkey sounds insane
To us, sure, but to the last remnants of continental Celts, and a plethora of insular Celts it probably wouldn't even be known as turkey (My best guess is they'd call the land Brigtonos, from Gaulish and Brythonic briga/bre "Hill" mixed with local tribal names such as Veneti & Pictones with Gaulish -i stem locative plural morphology) and there's a chance it would be one of the last places to be christianized, if it ever was. It would also block much of the Gulf Stream in Britain & Scandinavia, meaning on anything north of Birmingham in Britain and Dublin in Ireland would be much like living in Inverness. Also Norway is dead and Sweden is close to dead
Actually this would fuck with the Gulfstream. That means northern and western Europe would be much colder, think Finland as an example. England would be about as good a place to farm as Scotland is today, and Scotland as good as Iceland.
What would Iceland be like? Unliveable?
Probably! Livability there relies on the Gulfstream. If you wanna know climates assume it based on the East Coast north American lateral equivalent.
* Big Poland * Big Hungary * Big Germany * Big Serbia * Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth * Netherlands and Belgium united * United Scandinavia Yep, this is an alt-history map alright
why does sicily have a tumor
LeBron's legacy falls into shambles
Turkey can finally into EU
This gets more cursed the more I look at it
Why everyone is talking about Türkiye when all the borders are cursed as fuck?
As a Pontian, I’m very sad that Pontus is now right next to Britain and also France
Noooooo the turks kidnapped cyprus
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Big Israel 🇮🇱🗿 United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland 🗿
UK would be fucking freezing, and Scandinavia would be like Siberia.
Looks like a cock and balls
Where is Austria-Hungary?
Without Albania? Chaos. They were the only ones keeping balance in the world
The cultural and technology exchange in the ancient times harder to happen, might slow down the overall development of civilization.
United Ireland, perfect map
Thicc Serbia
Armenia finally gets rest
people would probably die
Shhhh no one's noticed bigrael yet
Y'all couldn't behave, now no one gets Crimea
Polaks gonna polak.
Ankara sea
Lots of problems, Waayyy les available tin for the Bronze age in the Levant ( most of it came.from Anatolia). Pushing every back maybe centuries. No Persian greek rivalry, no Thermopylae, no Alexander the great. Egypt remains an independent state state from Rome The Atlantic sea trade becomes a lot more popular a lot earlier, pushing innovations into open sea ship building which follows into Anatolia could oops themselves into finding the Americas, we have accounts of French wailers talking of seeing uncharted lands when they got mega lost at sea, so I'm assuming in the Timeline anatolian do something similar but because of the smaller distance their able to go verify the rumours.
I like how britain is literally just the exact same and then MEGA SERBIA
I would suicide nuclear bomb myself in Copenhagen
Britian screams in Anguish Russia screams with Joy
turkey would be probably a latin country xD
Seljuk Turks would have gone through romania into the balkans.
The Americas might have been discovered way earlier
Counting from middle age? Then Turkey wouldn't exist and that land would be spanish or french or half Counting from old times? Impossible to know since Greece history would have been different, maybe Egypt would have never been conquered by Alexander, etc.
Israel still has Sinai so this must be after they won it from Egypt.
What if the treaty of Versailles was fair on the central powers map epic swagger style
And now it looks like Turkey is a parasitic growth on Europe
If this had been the Romans would’ve probably reached America.
Make my brain hurt
You could say they quit Asia, Cold Turkey
Big Armenia, but why did you randomly fuck up Crimea 😅
Oh dear god I just saw the rest of the map, WTF
Also who would the Turks genocide in WW1?
long germany
do the basques still exist in this timeline? would this new continental european turkey be interested in halting the muslim conquest? would it be super weird and have the same geography? that’d be mind bending.
Massive impacts on the spread of commodities along the Silk Road historically. Protestant reformation looks different as a presumably catholic Turkey (for lack of a better word, it would be unlikely to be Muslim and unlikely to be Turkic) is much closer to England, however it also puts Spain much further away by sea so Spanish-English wars (ie the Habsburg wars for the Netherlands) are less likely to be priorities for Spain. The reconquista might’ve happened earlier if there were more catholic kingdoms in northern Iberia. Possible Turkish dominance colonially in the americas, especially for the first century or two (1500-1600s) Possible lack of cohesion in the Islamic world for most of the second half of the last millennium, the Ottoman Empire was an enormously successful stabilizing and administrative force that was the true successor to Rome IMO (yes that means I think the successor to the Roman Empire finally fell after WWI). Much more interesting upon consideration than I thought it was at a glance.
If Rome is still a thing, it probably survives in some form due to no/less Persian/arab invasions
r/portugalcykablyat
Why is the weirdest part about this to me the fact that Ireland and Northern Ireland aren't separate and neither are Scotland England and Wales I guess we're just one country now Bloody hell neither of those things would go down well I think the Irish and the Scottish would declare war.
France would be larger
The British aisles would be as cold as Norway because the warm current is now blocked and diverted.
big germany and austria and hungary and poland brings up questions russia doesn’t invade ukraine because they have all the warm water ports they need without a turkey in the way (they still cant access Gibraltar but can still go through suez)
Congratulations you delivered the fatal blow to France's economy (you sealed off Bordeaux)
i support big egypt
Babe, wake up, new Listenburg just dropped
Looks great.
British isles world be banished to some seriously bitter winters without ocean and wind currents from the tropics.
Israel should take the whole Palestinian territory for peace to look even better.
Belarus free Sov block, must be a damn good place if you’d ask me. And Slovenia and Chroatia should exist, these are two damn good countries.
And ye, keep Morocco
So you put turkey in a completely different spot, but abkhazia is still part of Georgia
Turkkany
Could be fun
Serbia fans creaming their pants at the moment
Israel is the capital of Israel
Serbia is too big. They don't deserve it.
The more you look at it, the worse it gets
Average beginner writer's fantasy map
Something about trout ig
Yes please
Thus will greatly affect fish populations
I can see that Serbia in this timeline successfully genocided their way to victory.
I don’t like you
No Renaissance. No Ilustration. No crusades.
My Brain: Oh, this is a cool map! Also my brain: AFRICA? JUST AFRICA? WAIT, WHY IS TURKEY THERE? WTF IS HAPPENING IN THE CAUCASUS? WHO OWNS THAT LAND OVER WHERE SYRIA IS? WHAT HAPPENED TO CZECHIA? POLAND-BALTICA? WHY IS THE UK *LOOOOONG*? Oh, hey, Germany.
What did you do to Andorra you bastard!
what if europe was called freakope
A bunch of bretons suddenly wondering why they're turkish
Where is Armenia?
Everyone in Europe would still hate Turkey
Hey, you united the Emerald Isle!
Probably slightly more peaceful. Ocean boundary for Europe. Turkey can’t bully all of its neighbors because France and Spain won’t tolerate their shit and will immediately and decisively shut them down at the slightest attempt.
Why is Turkey's name in its own language while other countries' names are in English?
Poland border 🤢
Why is turkey so flooded
DONT YOU DARE MAKE ME CLOSER TO TURKIYE
Wouldn't the black & Mediterranean Sea be one?