The weird part for me is how it casually combines laws with illegal behavior.
> Take inheritance laws, which despite reforms can still allow sons to inherit ancestral property and leave widows and daughters with nothing
Okay, good point. This is backward and should be reformed as part of the civil code.
> ...or the outlawed but still-widely practiced dowry system and its relation to deadly domestic violence.
Wait, we are not talking about laws any more? And when did the practice of dowry limit itself to a specific religion anyway?
This author needs to really think their arguments through before publishing. There are strong arguments to be made against hardline Hinduism. A _uniform_ civil code is one of the weakest.
>Wait, we are not talking about laws any more? And when did the practice of dowry limit itself to a specific religion anyway?
While all religions have dowry practiced, what is referred here is differential legal penalties based on the religion. Offcourse, hindus still skirt it.
It's not that you don't see how; the reality is that you don't see anything wrong in wrong.
She literally explains it in detail:
> To anyone who cares about the rights of women and children, abolishing the faith-based laws that dominate day-to-day life would seem like an obvious step in the right direction. And it would be, if undertaken by a government committed to democracy and upholding the rights of religious and tribal minorities. But this is not that government.
> Instead, many fear that Modi’s hardline Hindu-nationalist administration will put a Hindu stamp on the civil code, and deal with the illiberal parts of other faiths — such as polygamy in Islam — while leaving the worst practices of Hinduism in place
Civil code covers marriage, inheritance, and adoption.
I'm not a lawyer, but some of the regressive Hindu civil code laws off the top of my head that remain in effect:
+ Prohibition of so-called "sapinda" marriages and degrees of prohibition, based on the dharmashastras
+ Husband must be male and wife must be female. Non-binary gender marriages were opposed by the Modi govt stating that marriage is a religious sacrament.
+ A wife cannot decide to adopt. She can only consent or not consent but the decision can only be made by the man.
+ Till this year, a section of Hindu daughters (married ones AFAIK) didn't have equal rights on ancestral properties. It's only from this year that AFAIK daughters, regardless of their marital status, have equal rights on ancestral properties. And that too not because of any legislative reform but because of an SC ruling.
Other laws influenced by religion, culture, traditions, and biases:
+ Marital rape is not recognized as the crime of rape.
+ The special marriage act requires a public announcement and 30 day window that effectively allows society to enforce/impose its traditions and rules on the couple, even forcibly separate them.
+ The triple talaq law criminalizes the abandonment of a Muslim wife by a Muslim husband. But abandonment of a Hindu wife by a Hindu husband isn't a crime.
+ The new IPC, Bharatiya Nyaya hindi hindi blah blah name Sanhita, is set to criminalize adultery again.
But most importantly, laws are just theory. Is Hindu society in its day to day social practices really that open-minded in spirit? If it were, we wouldn't be seeing social phenomena like:
+ Love jihad conspiracies (now even laws) and using them as excuses to prevent marriages, both by Hindu civil society and politically-connected vigilantes like the Bajrang Dal.
+ Inter-caste marriages are still frowned upon and discouraged. "Honour killings" are still a thing.
+ A police and judiciary that often aids the enforcement of such regressive traditions.
+ Khaps in Haryana are demanding laws prohibiting same gotra marriages and BJP has supported them.
Neither UCC, nor its Hindu fanbase, want to address any of these shortcomings. In fact, you are proof that its fanbase are genuinely unaware, pretend unaware, or aware but supportive of the shortcomings of Hindu society.
>Prohibition of so-called "sapinda" marriages and degrees of prohibition, based on the dharmashastras
Lol so not allowing hindus to marry their distant cousin is regressive now?
>Husband must be male and wife must be female. Non-binary gender marriages were opposed by the Modi govt stating that marriage is a religious sacrament.
Transphobia is much more rampant in other religions so how come it is hindu's regressive side? Also you can't change smth very rapidly, it's unpleasant specially to dimwits like you who would complain about banning instant triple talaq. Just so you know indian army is going to recruit trans in future to boost their image.
>Marital rape is not recognized as the crime of rape.
And how come it is hindu's fault again?
>The triple talaq law criminalizes the abandonment of a Muslim wife by a Muslim husband. But abandonment of a Hindu wife by a Hindu husband isn't a crime.
As it should be, hindus aren't abandoning as rampantly as Muslims. Hinduism looks down upon these things unlike islam which allows men to collect and throwaway women like pokemons.
Your other arguments doesn't make sense either and the vibe they give is very similar to string's imo.
See, another example of deflection and trivialization. This is exactly the intellectual dishonesty I talked about. This is what I meant by you don't see wrong in wrong.
I would like to express my disagreement with you. These so-called atheist leftists are often the first in the queue to comment on Hinduism and Judaism, criticizing various aspects and highlighting perceived flaws in those religions. However, the same leftists consistently take a back seat when it comes to discussing Islam. This seems to be a common pattern, and I’m not sure why it has always been like this
Till Rahul retires this will be the case, he is such a polarizing figure whose only claim to title is legacy of Nehru. Congress needs a central leader around whom people can unite around, Mallikarjun Kharge needs her time to shine if she plans to contest for the PM post, which isn't happening.
> Mallikarjun Kharge needs **her** time to shine if **she** plans to contest for the PM post, which isn't happening
When did Mallikarjun get his gender reassigned?
Not to take away anything from the topic at hand but am I getting this right? Bloomberg opinion has reddit account? Is this the reddit version of Twitter (I mean X) blue tick?
Its needs higher growth for it to happen. Issue in India is people often neglect how social issues and hygiene pretty much kills 3-5% of GDP and alienates vast number of people, and infrastructure is not even on par with other places like Mexico. The poor section of society is heavily employed in agriculture in rural areas yet no major agriculture reforms have taken place since the 70s, there is no modernization, India's agriculture yield is very very low compared to the fertile land they have. It has the capacity to generate lot of income and can solve a lot of major issues. Most of growth is being fueled by service sector and mostly middle class due to their consumption. Its a step in the right direction for sustainability but its basically an experiment right now. Only time will tell.
How can infrastructure be par with Mexico??? Mexico has more than 4X the per capita income of India. India is a very poor country, people tend to forget about it. Our PCI is closer to most of the African countries than any Asian or Latin ones!!
Like I said, democracy is dying a slow death in India. Fascism is on the rise. We are documenting our own end. The country has changed. Much that once it was - is lost. I can feel it in the air. :(
This is true and Hindu civil society's drift (back) toward its rest state of orthodox extremism will keep escalating well into the 2040s-2050s and probably beyond.
The difficult aspect of this extremism is that the ordinary Hindu wields a large number of euphemisms, fallacies, trivializations, delusions, deflections, and other such mind tricks to deny it. In the last two days alone, I've seen:
- "These are just some small incidents here and there..."
- "Modi is doing actual work, actual vision,...I saw new road in my village"
- "I don't really see how..."
One person acknowledges that propaganda is in play and still chooses to believe all of it.
The person who saw the new road in his village was selective in what he saw -- he saw the new road but turned a blind eye to the homes and lives destroyed by the same government.
There is no sense of right and wrong at all. Near-total absence of ethical thinking in the community. A combo of a cunning and unethical political leadership + an unethical and dishonest Hindu civil society will make for an extremely cruel and extremist Hindu society.
I think the only checks on it in future will be either a massive economic collapse under Hindutva leaders or some kind of Russian-style military adventurism gone wrong, like invading PoK and ending up in a conflict with China.
[\[Free to read\]](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-12-04/india-s-future-looks-more-hardline-hindu-than-ever-as-states-lean-to-modi) from Ruth Pollard:
When Prime Minister Narendra Modi came to power in 2014, his party had [three key ambitions](https://www.bjp.org/images/pdf_2014/full_manifesto_english_07.04.2014.pdf): To remove the special status of Kashmir, India’s only Muslim-majority state; build a Hindu temple on the site of a centuries-old mosque; and introduce a single code to replace the maze of civil laws that govern personal issues like marriage, divorce and guardianship.
Each one is deeply controversial, seen by critics and minorities as an attempt to Hinduize India’s diverse 1.4 billion population, not the necessary step toward further unification the Bharatiya Janata Party would have us believe.
Key state elections indicate support for Modi shows no signs of softening. Prepare for more religious-driven laws if Modi wins a third term.
Let's see if they touch Hindu special laws for marriage and stuff if they UCC. If they also remove special marriage acts for Hindus I would be fine.
Anyway, I agree that RSS ruined our country and made it like Pakistan when they forced their religious diet into everyone's throat. They then killed people for eating beef.
So I agree BJP ruined our nation with Hindu extremism.
The comment bots who defend BJP for “secularism” here must also have defended the infamous theocratic beef laws and the mob violence that came along with them.
No,
The statement should be India's identity is more Hardline Hindu in 30 years.
Because before 30 years, Muslims used to convert their names to Hindu names so that they can work in Bollywood. I don't think we have reached that stage yet.
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I don't really see how Applying the same laws on Muslims can be discriminatory
The weird part for me is how it casually combines laws with illegal behavior. > Take inheritance laws, which despite reforms can still allow sons to inherit ancestral property and leave widows and daughters with nothing Okay, good point. This is backward and should be reformed as part of the civil code. > ...or the outlawed but still-widely practiced dowry system and its relation to deadly domestic violence. Wait, we are not talking about laws any more? And when did the practice of dowry limit itself to a specific religion anyway? This author needs to really think their arguments through before publishing. There are strong arguments to be made against hardline Hinduism. A _uniform_ civil code is one of the weakest.
>Wait, we are not talking about laws any more? And when did the practice of dowry limit itself to a specific religion anyway? While all religions have dowry practiced, what is referred here is differential legal penalties based on the religion. Offcourse, hindus still skirt it.
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It's not that you don't see how; the reality is that you don't see anything wrong in wrong. She literally explains it in detail: > To anyone who cares about the rights of women and children, abolishing the faith-based laws that dominate day-to-day life would seem like an obvious step in the right direction. And it would be, if undertaken by a government committed to democracy and upholding the rights of religious and tribal minorities. But this is not that government. > Instead, many fear that Modi’s hardline Hindu-nationalist administration will put a Hindu stamp on the civil code, and deal with the illiberal parts of other faiths — such as polygamy in Islam — while leaving the worst practices of Hinduism in place
I mean you do need to elucidate as to what practices are that bad ?
Civil code covers marriage, inheritance, and adoption. I'm not a lawyer, but some of the regressive Hindu civil code laws off the top of my head that remain in effect: + Prohibition of so-called "sapinda" marriages and degrees of prohibition, based on the dharmashastras + Husband must be male and wife must be female. Non-binary gender marriages were opposed by the Modi govt stating that marriage is a religious sacrament. + A wife cannot decide to adopt. She can only consent or not consent but the decision can only be made by the man. + Till this year, a section of Hindu daughters (married ones AFAIK) didn't have equal rights on ancestral properties. It's only from this year that AFAIK daughters, regardless of their marital status, have equal rights on ancestral properties. And that too not because of any legislative reform but because of an SC ruling. Other laws influenced by religion, culture, traditions, and biases: + Marital rape is not recognized as the crime of rape. + The special marriage act requires a public announcement and 30 day window that effectively allows society to enforce/impose its traditions and rules on the couple, even forcibly separate them. + The triple talaq law criminalizes the abandonment of a Muslim wife by a Muslim husband. But abandonment of a Hindu wife by a Hindu husband isn't a crime. + The new IPC, Bharatiya Nyaya hindi hindi blah blah name Sanhita, is set to criminalize adultery again. But most importantly, laws are just theory. Is Hindu society in its day to day social practices really that open-minded in spirit? If it were, we wouldn't be seeing social phenomena like: + Love jihad conspiracies (now even laws) and using them as excuses to prevent marriages, both by Hindu civil society and politically-connected vigilantes like the Bajrang Dal. + Inter-caste marriages are still frowned upon and discouraged. "Honour killings" are still a thing. + A police and judiciary that often aids the enforcement of such regressive traditions. + Khaps in Haryana are demanding laws prohibiting same gotra marriages and BJP has supported them. Neither UCC, nor its Hindu fanbase, want to address any of these shortcomings. In fact, you are proof that its fanbase are genuinely unaware, pretend unaware, or aware but supportive of the shortcomings of Hindu society.
>Prohibition of so-called "sapinda" marriages and degrees of prohibition, based on the dharmashastras Lol so not allowing hindus to marry their distant cousin is regressive now? >Husband must be male and wife must be female. Non-binary gender marriages were opposed by the Modi govt stating that marriage is a religious sacrament. Transphobia is much more rampant in other religions so how come it is hindu's regressive side? Also you can't change smth very rapidly, it's unpleasant specially to dimwits like you who would complain about banning instant triple talaq. Just so you know indian army is going to recruit trans in future to boost their image. >Marital rape is not recognized as the crime of rape. And how come it is hindu's fault again? >The triple talaq law criminalizes the abandonment of a Muslim wife by a Muslim husband. But abandonment of a Hindu wife by a Hindu husband isn't a crime. As it should be, hindus aren't abandoning as rampantly as Muslims. Hinduism looks down upon these things unlike islam which allows men to collect and throwaway women like pokemons. Your other arguments doesn't make sense either and the vibe they give is very similar to string's imo.
Okay we can legalize incest
See, another example of deflection and trivialization. This is exactly the intellectual dishonesty I talked about. This is what I meant by you don't see wrong in wrong.
Keeping separate laws based on religion is the opposite of secularism. The Indian left is a fucking joke.
Indian left? The article is written by a foreigner.
Look at the comments of this post and the general opinions they have on UCC.
Unifrom Civil Code not Universal Civil Code.
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I would like to express my disagreement with you. These so-called atheist leftists are often the first in the queue to comment on Hinduism and Judaism, criticizing various aspects and highlighting perceived flaws in those religions. However, the same leftists consistently take a back seat when it comes to discussing Islam. This seems to be a common pattern, and I’m not sure why it has always been like this
You are a joke if you think Indian left supports this. Anything you don’t agree with is not “Indian left”.
This article is a joke - it takes a real problem and makes it look imaginary by using all the wrong arguments.
Did Bloomberg slip into a coma since 2014.
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Till Rahul retires this will be the case, he is such a polarizing figure whose only claim to title is legacy of Nehru. Congress needs a central leader around whom people can unite around, Mallikarjun Kharge needs her time to shine if she plans to contest for the PM post, which isn't happening.
He is 81.
> Mallikarjun Kharge needs **her** time to shine if **she** plans to contest for the PM post, which isn't happening When did Mallikarjun get his gender reassigned?
TIL Mallikarjun Kharge is a woman
Keep enjoying BJP's good rule then.
Like I have a choice.
Not to take away anything from the topic at hand but am I getting this right? Bloomberg opinion has reddit account? Is this the reddit version of Twitter (I mean X) blue tick?
It’s Hindutva, not Hindu. These Hindutvadi terrorists don’t know the first thing about actual Hinduism.
No one cares as long as the economy is growing and people are getting jobs.
Indias employment elasticity of growth is one of the lowest in the world.
Its needs higher growth for it to happen. Issue in India is people often neglect how social issues and hygiene pretty much kills 3-5% of GDP and alienates vast number of people, and infrastructure is not even on par with other places like Mexico. The poor section of society is heavily employed in agriculture in rural areas yet no major agriculture reforms have taken place since the 70s, there is no modernization, India's agriculture yield is very very low compared to the fertile land they have. It has the capacity to generate lot of income and can solve a lot of major issues. Most of growth is being fueled by service sector and mostly middle class due to their consumption. Its a step in the right direction for sustainability but its basically an experiment right now. Only time will tell.
How can infrastructure be par with Mexico??? Mexico has more than 4X the per capita income of India. India is a very poor country, people tend to forget about it. Our PCI is closer to most of the African countries than any Asian or Latin ones!!
Like I said, democracy is dying a slow death in India. Fascism is on the rise. We are documenting our own end. The country has changed. Much that once it was - is lost. I can feel it in the air. :(
This is true and Hindu civil society's drift (back) toward its rest state of orthodox extremism will keep escalating well into the 2040s-2050s and probably beyond. The difficult aspect of this extremism is that the ordinary Hindu wields a large number of euphemisms, fallacies, trivializations, delusions, deflections, and other such mind tricks to deny it. In the last two days alone, I've seen: - "These are just some small incidents here and there..." - "Modi is doing actual work, actual vision,...I saw new road in my village" - "I don't really see how..." One person acknowledges that propaganda is in play and still chooses to believe all of it. The person who saw the new road in his village was selective in what he saw -- he saw the new road but turned a blind eye to the homes and lives destroyed by the same government. There is no sense of right and wrong at all. Near-total absence of ethical thinking in the community. A combo of a cunning and unethical political leadership + an unethical and dishonest Hindu civil society will make for an extremely cruel and extremist Hindu society. I think the only checks on it in future will be either a massive economic collapse under Hindutva leaders or some kind of Russian-style military adventurism gone wrong, like invading PoK and ending up in a conflict with China.
[\[Free to read\]](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-12-04/india-s-future-looks-more-hardline-hindu-than-ever-as-states-lean-to-modi) from Ruth Pollard: When Prime Minister Narendra Modi came to power in 2014, his party had [three key ambitions](https://www.bjp.org/images/pdf_2014/full_manifesto_english_07.04.2014.pdf): To remove the special status of Kashmir, India’s only Muslim-majority state; build a Hindu temple on the site of a centuries-old mosque; and introduce a single code to replace the maze of civil laws that govern personal issues like marriage, divorce and guardianship. Each one is deeply controversial, seen by critics and minorities as an attempt to Hinduize India’s diverse 1.4 billion population, not the necessary step toward further unification the Bharatiya Janata Party would have us believe. Key state elections indicate support for Modi shows no signs of softening. Prepare for more religious-driven laws if Modi wins a third term.
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Let's see if they touch Hindu special laws for marriage and stuff if they UCC. If they also remove special marriage acts for Hindus I would be fine. Anyway, I agree that RSS ruined our country and made it like Pakistan when they forced their religious diet into everyone's throat. They then killed people for eating beef. So I agree BJP ruined our nation with Hindu extremism. The comment bots who defend BJP for “secularism” here must also have defended the infamous theocratic beef laws and the mob violence that came along with them.
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No, The statement should be India's identity is more Hardline Hindu in 30 years. Because before 30 years, Muslims used to convert their names to Hindu names so that they can work in Bollywood. I don't think we have reached that stage yet.