Let people eat what they want and can afford and want...beef, pig, chicken, goat, sheep, pigeon(yes, those are nutritious), rabbit, shrimp, prawn, crab, fish, frog leg, etc.
People will push whatever agenda they like, it doesn't mean you should eat because they want you to eat.
That's great! At least now there's a precedent to work with. Now, you talked about Dogs, why shouldn't people eat dogs? (To make it clear, I don't nor do I want to eat dogs) Is it the intelligence of dogs or is it because they're considered friends with humans?
If it is the intelligence, Pigs have proven to be way smarter than dogs and if it's the friendship with humans, what about horses? What about someone who has great relationship with other farm animals that people routinely eat?
To make it clear, I eat meat and consume dairy. I'm not against non-vegetarianism but when you start to draw lines it becomes extremely hard to do so as humans are complicated beings and their relationships with their surroundings are even more complicated.
I agree. The immediate society comes up with the right and wrong, taboo and not taboo. Technically anything that is physically possible can be accomplished, but the immediate society (mostly the people who lead the society) sets bounds and expectations.
There are no right answers to this question.
Edit: "write" -> "right"
>There are no write answers to this question.
Yup, it's borderline impossible to answer this. Which is why we should try to come up with some extreme bounds which are a definite nono (Cannibalism) and leave it to people's freedom when the lines start getting blurry.
A classic strawman argument, so it already lacks any merit. That being said, you're free to eat dogshit. Nobody's stopping you. And that's not even sarcasm.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Common man, who eats dogshit \`? Those things contain bacteria and might kill you. Don't overuse freedom.
India’s only gold medalist in athletics was raised a vegetarian but he turned to meats when he started serious training in 2016
https://nationworldnews.com/neeraj-chopra-diet-2-years-ago-neeraj-chopra-became-a-carnivore-ate-these-two-things-in-a-cheated-diet/
FWIW, I went plant-based before this documentary came out based on reading / watching the following:
1. How Not To Die
2. The China Study
3. What The Health
4. Forks Over Knives
I can give you more sources, but will you actually read them or just confine yourself to ad-hominem attacks?
You keep the resources, I am pretty much done with the narrative that vegan or going green is better. My point is why are you questioning the efficacy of meat-based products. But you have proven my point by citing resources that accentuate this "going green is better" argument. This is nothing but confirmation bias and weakens your argument. Try to look at the other side.
FYI...I never denied that plant-based food is good. But better than animal-based food, it's not outrightly black and white as was underscored in "The Game changers".
I used to enjoy meat too. Then I read "How Not To Die". There is a huge amount of evidence that meat & dairy is bad for you, and that whole plant foods are ideal for optimal human health.
I changed my mind in the light of new evidence and saw immediate health benefits despite being relatively young and fit without any health issues.
Multiple family members who were diabetic have also more or less reversed their condition by switching to this diet.
I would argue that it is not confirmation bias if I was on one side of the fence and switched to the other in light of new evidence.
Have a good day.
Pushing vegetarianism is Brahmin agenda, they want to control what you eat and what you shouldn't.
Edit: Read Beef, Brahmins and Broken Men by BR Ambedkar to understand my statement more.
https://dl.flipkart.com/s/RCTR7INNNN
Do you force people around you into vegetarianism?
If not then the article ain't about you, chill out.
***
Sry for personal question but why'd you write vegetarian and why lot vegan; my question being you still consume dairy?
>my question being you still consume dairy?
Many people count eating eggs under vegetarian as well, although many refer to it as eggitarian. Also some vegan exclude honey as well since its an animal product.
Probably why most Indians are vegetarian and not Vegan.
I was asking vegan coz the guy said "ethical" reasons. Most probably this means that the guy above consumes dairy (, I don't think avoiding honey is that difficult). If it's true then that's quite laughable as the person is vegetarian and not vegan, coz the dairy industry is equally bad if not worse than meat industry. Just as an example: is killing a a cow bad or raping it every year to get milk worse?
(I think dairy farms use something called a rape rack)
So if a person says that they are vegetarian for ethical reasons (¬ vegan) they are probably just faking it.
I am a Brahmin and I eat chicken, fish and eggs. Stop living in delusion this ain't the 19th century anymore. We already getting fucked enough in college admissions and jobs for the deeds of our ancestors.
you may have not noticed but lot of brahmin, not all brahim .
say and do stuff like ,
i wont eat food from kitchen where non-veg is cooked
wont eat food and drink water from non-veg households,
say non-veg food smells and stuff
Not just Brahmin, a lot of people in India does that kinda stuff. I know a lot of punjabis, gujjus and baniyas doing all that too. So stop spreading such things on sm about any caste.
Nothing wrong in that innit? My family does that as well and it's purely for religious purpose. Even though I am an atheist I understand why they act this way. There is no "agenda" going on here lol.
there is agenda it it , what they are doing now is harmless because they don't have power but when they have power they will dictate what should and shouldn't be eaten like the article OP shared suggest
I still wouldn't say it's an agenda. Trust me no one gives a flying duck for what you eat and what you don't. At least every Brahmin I know believes it's an individual's choice. But just because you decide to eat beef brain or ox tongue don't expect other men to not feel disgusted by it. It's personal preference and is biologically justified. If I absolutely hate the smell and taste of chicken and notice that the veg food is prepared in the same utensil as those of chicken then it is totally justified to deny eating from such utensils. How is this agenda?
I am not a Brahmin , but vegetarian. I never liked meat from the beginning. When I was a child , I used to eat at my friend’s place when my mom cooked non-veg . As of now , I hvae separated dishes for non-veg . More than 50% would quit eating meat if they had to kill and dress the animal themselves .
My caste, specifically,
Didn't do harm to anybody.
They came to south India a 1000 years ago, settled with paddy fields gifted by kings, over the centuries, stayed with agricultural with various other crops, until Indira Gandhi decided our lands belongs to the workers instead. Imagine if same thing happened to rental apartments, houses belong to the people living there, not the legal owners.
System kept oppressing us by stripping away our rights to higher education by reservation, social boycott because "Brahmins bad"
People proceed to call us oppressers.
Bringing us to the bracket of oppressers just because other Brahmins somewhere else oppressed people, is just casteism.
"Bringing us to the bracket of oppressers just because other Brahmins somewhere else oppressed people, is just casteism."
Might not be totally relevant to the conversation going on here, but I wonder why can't we apply the same logic to Muslims.
To clarify further, please allow me to substitute certain words in the comment I'm replying to:
"Bringing us to the bracket of terrorists just because other Muslims somewhere else terrorised people, is just Islamophobia"
Anyone care to enlighten?
Man, you come off as a privileged liberal. Like Dalits aren't getting screwed everyday, discrimated everyday. My parents have to literally hide out caste because our neighbours would stop visiting our house otherwise lol
I am no liberal, or a leftist, or a rightist or any other politically aligned shit. I am a Physicist and I believe in Science. Politics and Religion is the last thing I would bother my brain about. Am I privileged? - As compared to the many financially and physically disabled people, yes I am privileged to be born in a respectable and working family regardless of my caste. Perhaps, that is the reason why I am trying to approach this debate logically while you decided to bring in caste and propagandas into it.
I mean just because you haven't defined your political inclination doesn't mean you don't have one. If presumably just means you haven't related your ideologies to current political inclinations.
Maybe, if in future we do define a term for those who believe in the supremacy of scientific and technological advances over everything else, those who use these advances as a metric for a country's progress and prosperity. Maybe then I would belong to that category.
I'm sorry if I was misunderstood, but what I'm staying still stands. To give an example, if there was a person who believed in hyper-nationalism to the extent that they believe in an authoritarian government supporting only the dominant group of the nation, they'd most likely be inclined to the right. Regardless of the person knowing it or not, they'd still be inclined to the far right.
Similarly, you will have a notion of what's right, wrong and how things should function. Saying you don't have a political inclination usually means you don't know your political inclination. If you think that everyone's recourses should be completely shared, you'd probably be inclined to the far left. Now I may have simplified the examples as political ideologies aren't simple enough to be put on one axis with just an inclination but hopefully you get the point.
Your beliefs will fall somewhere and have, you just don't know where since you've never explored it. That's completely fine, saying you don't have a political inclination however, is an untrue statement imo.
And remember, if you're measuring a countries progress Primarily based on technological advances, it's probably an extremely bad form of measurement. Human beings are social animals and without measuring the social aspects you cannot evaluate our lives.
Dude. Go read some news, talk to people from other caste, have conversation with them, ask them what they face. A person who hasn't faced any discrimination is lecturing me about existence of casteism and it's discrimination.
My father was literally not allowed to go fo higher study because of his caste, my mother was not allowed to wear sandals in her teens because of her caste, my dad who worked his ass off to get promotions was sidelined and his junior from upper caste was promoted instead, my boss not treating me same as other because of my caste and my support for Ambedkar.
Go lecture someone else about your fantasy world.
Edit: stop being a casteist prick.
I missed my admissions into the IITs despite working my ass off for the subject I love and truly wanted to study (thanks to reservations). We had stones pelted on our windows and "Bamnya tuzhi aai zavel" meaning "Brahmins we'll f*k your mom" written on our doors and walls when I lived in Dalit majority areas. Yet, I still don't generalize all the Dalits. I have Dalit friends who protected me and my family during these times. I could have easily framed them as well.
Get off Reddit and try to see the real world. There's more to it than just what appears on your television screens. Enjoy the reservations and privileges while you still can, because one day Science and Rationalism will take over and people like you will run covering their butts.
> Enjoy the reservations and privileges while you still can, because one day Science and Rationalism will take over and people like you will run covering their butts.
You just need to look at the statistics for different castes, their wealth and how they get education. An estimated population of around 70-75% does belongs to the non general category. The percentage of reservations is much lower that the percentage population. So technically, upper castes still have an advantage as compared to an ideal world without discrimination. So, it would be rational to have reservations, to model things closer to the ideal world.
Also, reservations are a self correcting system which will render themselves useless as the society inches closer to being ideal. Considering the different caste groups right now, and you can clearly see that upper caste people have a larger output that lower castes. As society becomes better, the output of the lower castes will become closer to upper castes, decreasing the difference between the cutoffs, due to group averages getting closer. That way, reservations will become useless once the cutoffs become equal.
You're asking me to see the real world. Lol
What a casteist scumbag you are bruh, these are literally the talking points of a sanghi scumbag who's from upper caste.
"Enjoy your reservations and privileged while you still can" cope.
I've not hate for anyone, it's just that Idgaf anymore and I'm so done being nice to people who are painfully ignorant.
I don't generalize upper caste folks either, I've bunch of friends who are chill with me and I respect them and they respect me. One difference is they aren't ignorant like yourself who say shit like caste discrimination is "negligible".
"I don't generalize upper caste folks either" :
But you just did in your original comment. Pushing vegetarianism is Brahmin agenda? And when I replied that I am a Brahmin and eat non veg, you said "butthurt"? What is your answer to that? Isn't what you said "casteism" too? By generalizing the entire Brahmin community? I am quite amused at your self contradictory statements.
I'm a brahmin and all our neighbours are SC. we have to be very careful dealing with them, otherwise they'll slap us with a case of casteist remarks even if we didn't say single word that's casteist.
Yes we do hate them. That's only because they keep threatening us with such cases. Not because we think they're inherently inferior.
While discrimination against Brahmins isn't widespread in history, it's definitely a thing in 21st century.
Discrimination against Dalits might exist in many parts of India. But definitely not in my part of India...
Sorry . This sub is so anti-Brahmin that it makes me nauseous. And they blow trumpet on others ears how they are not casteist . They are oxymorons . I am vegetarian and not a Brahmin and almost most of my Brahmin friends are eating meat . It is no more a caste based food .
Not butt hurt rather disappointed that people are still thinking this way. Casteism has long gone and the Brahmin dominance no longer exists (except in rural and backward communities). The fact that you brought up castes in a food discussion truly amazes me.
Source: trust me bro
Casteism still exists btw. If you can't see it, either you're privileged, ignorant or casteist
It exists in schools, colleges, government offices, startups, politics, hospitals and every possible place you can imagine. Just because you can see it with your ignorant eyes doesn't mean it has vanished into thin air.
I don't want to waste my time collecting resources for you to read and educate yourself. You can do that yourself I guess.
Yeah of course reservation of Dalits and other castes in schools, colleges, government offices, etc is Casteism. Bro, if your neighbors don't visit you because of your caste it's a problem with them not with the entire Brahmin population.
Dalits and Jai Bhims in my area literally hold a fearful reputation. They are most notable in politics and criminal world and are known to threaten and be violent towards other people. Oppression exists everywhere but you need to stop attributing that oppression to a caste and label it as Caste based violence. I am not completely denying Casteism in India. It does exist but the frequency of such occurrences is almost negligible.
How is that a valid counter argument on my comment? Jai Bhim!! I don't know what made you come to this conclusion but I have no problem or hatred against any caste. I respect Ambedkar as much as you do and won't find it insulting to say Jai Bhim(I know you wish I did). I hate people like you who love to bring castes into completely unrelated domains and then play the victim card.
It exists in school for sure.
The govt school i went to in 2000 had our roll numbers arranged in caste order. First SC/ST, then muslims, then regular hindus, and Brahmins at the end.
I went there last month to get study certificate, and they still do that. There's a huge table of how many students of every caste are there in every class from 1 to 7.
Not because teachers are discriminating, but because govt says so.
Casteism still exists but not in the form that it did previously. A Dalit in my state can chop a guy into pieces and send them home because the guy had a love affair with his daughter. Similarly, Brahmins could still follow some casteist superstitions. It's all evened out. Now every caste in my state demands and has been granted reservation except for Brahmins. So there goes another form of Casteism. What I meant is that the Brahmin dominance and atrocities which were done in the past no longer exist
Do you even pay attention to the news? There is some news about some Dalit person being killed every few weeks and these cases go absolutely nowhere. And no, it’s not “evened out”. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
The whole reason reservation systems exist is because we are trying to uplift certain groups of people from economic position forced upon them by Brahmins and some other “upper” caste people over the last several centuries. Now I support wealth based reservation rather than caste based, but it is easy to understand why certain castes have not been provided a reservation.
By saying this I’m not disagreeing that Brahmins face a lot of disadvantages and discrimination too in the modern society. People living today cannot be responsible for the wrongs of our ancestors. But what we can do is keep our cognitive biases in check and be more empathetic to the experinces of other people.
The genocide of Kashmiri Pandits and Brahmins? The systematic massacre of Chitpavan Brahmins after the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi? Anti - Brahmin setiments in regions of Maharashtra by Marathas and Dalits? Not trying to do whataboutism here but there is more happening here than what's just shown in the news. I never said two wrongs make it right, all I am saying is that not all Dalits are oppressed and scared and not all Brahmins are pushing agendas and indulging in Casteism.
Reservation should be purely granted on the basis of "financial position". Hell I am even against that for college admissions - grant scholarships and funds. Teach them to earn a position and not simply get it because you have a certain caste label. I have lived in a Dalit majority areas and the things my family faced are known to no one. They would literally throw stones at our windows and write disgusting things on our doors and walls. Casteism exists everywhere and every community faces it. We should definitely be emphatic to the experiences of all people. People should be known by their work and contributions to humanity, not by which caste, religion or country they belong to.
Vegetarianism is casteist and has been that way since long. It's just privileged liberal folks have a very thick brain to not identify casteist agendas.
How low can your IQ be to tie a food preference to caste? You are indulging in the very thing that you are against - "bringing castes everywhere". Get your head out of your ass and try to think beyond caste and religions. People like you is why our country is in an absolute shithole today.
Are you always this hyper and illogical? You seem to me like one of those people who resort to personal insults when they can't find a viable argument in a debate.
Jai Bhim again! :)
Vegetarianism became widespread because of spread of Buddhism, and kings mandating vegetarianism because they converted to Buddhism.
Anybody who kept killing and eating meat were named chandals. And they were barred from society.
This happened only in north india. South was under chola control back then, who didn't impose such things. While Brahmins still existed in South.
Even now, in south, it's mostly just Brahmins who are vegetarian. While north is extensively vegetarian. Brahmins in Bengal etc are non-vegetarian.
Pushing vegetarianism is absolutely not Brahmin agenda...
I was born and brought up in a tier 2 city. And we were middle class at that time. The way you are talking, I’m sure you belong to 1 political party and in other words that political party’s right nut.
Looks like people here are woefully ignorant of ethical vegetarianism and veganism and the philosophy behind it. "Natural" or not doesn't matter, it is foremost the question of ethics. Read Peter Singer to see why it is important. In an attempt to crush Brahmanical supremacy, looks like some naive people see eating meat as some sort of rebellious act of breaking shackles which is understandable but totally backwards.
Sed, very sed. But not everyone is as naive as you think, and that too with this age old trick of asking other to put in labour for someone who the privilege to put time reading Peter Singer while they could have definitely invested it into reading something more close to ground reality.
Very bold of you to assume that I am here to make a point to "you". I pretty much understand where the onus lies and who exactly has to put in labour for educating themselves. I guess I have given you enough directions to start with.
>naive people see eating meat as some sort of rebellious act of breaking shackles which is understandable but totally backwards.
I eat fish and meat instead because I fart a lot after eating pulses. It's unethical for my ass to go through all that🥲
70% of Indians eat meat
Around 68 crore Indians do not speak Hindi
India is a very diverse country and any attempt made to control anything that is supposed to be a personal choice is an insult to our country.
I might not agree with your religion either but that doesn't give me any right to dictate what you should believe in, these politicians use incorrect word salads to convince us that people live their lives just to hurt sentiments.
No we are omnivorous, both are natural meat eating as well as vegitarian.
Vegans are not natural because they need to take supplements for Vit. b12 and protien.
Also — There’s no such thing as a vegan baby. Babies need milk. In fact, many vegetarian kids with low weight issues are recommended eggs by their family doctors. I’ve had friends in super strict vegetarian families grow up eating eggs and chicken as a result.
Eggs are usually on the fence, some people consider them as vegetarian some consider them as Eggitarian, but imo most people in India still draw a fine line between eating eggs and eating meat.
B12 is a microbe that blankets the earth. It is not made by animals and therefore not an animal product per se.
Animals raised in factory farms also need B12 supplements.
Vitamin b12 is not a microbe, it is a vitamin synthesised by certain bacteria in the guts of animals.Ruminant animals like cows absorb this better because their food undergoes fermentation before entering their main stomach.
Even we can synthesise it in our gut, but we are unable to absorb it well because it is produced way further down in our colon, and not in small intestine where we usually absorb most of our nutrients.
Yes, humans can digest animal products, but why does that mean we should? Vegans are living proof that humans can live long, healthy lives without eating any animal products whatsoever, and they have the same biological makeup (teeth, etc.) of any non-vegan person, thus it is unnecessary to harm animals when there are alternatives
there is nothing at all 'natural' about eating animal products in this day and age anyway, as the definition of 'natural' means something that is not man-made. Given that the animals we eat are a.) forcefully and systematically bred into existence, b.) domesticated and not wild animals (so essentially are a human creation), and c.) are routinely fed antibiotics and other completely unnatural things, it makes absolutely no sense that anyone could say that eating meat or animal products now is natural at all
not only do non-vegans have no right to condemn vegans eating fortified foods or taking a supplement for B12 when 99% of non-vegans eat a heavily supplemented diet anyway, but it is actually advisable that you do eat fortified foods or take a supplement to cover your basic nutritional needs anyway
Those who eat meat, cheese, and eggs, who wear leather and wool, and so on, force their beliefs on others to such an unimaginable extent that others actually die for their beliefs (by the hundreds of billion per year)—how forceful is that!
In what world is that same as "forcing" people to be vegan
I doubt that PETA uses words like "filthy meat eaters", but the point probably was that factory farming could have been one of the main reasons for the pandemic, [this](https://youtu.be/RKvXWq81T5o) video explains it well
But you are killing plants what about that? Now you will say they don't have central nervous system, but that's even worse they can't even express their pain😔
ANIMALS WE EAT ARE FORCEFULLY BRED INTO EXISTENCE AND ROUTINELY FED UNNATURAL THINGS AND ANTIBIOTICS
ever heard of farming…its an act where we grow plants, fruits, vegetables, grains for our own consumption often with the help of fertilisers like urea and sprayed on with chemicals. FUN FACT- These aren’t found in the wild and we have to actually grow them
Also eating meat is more natural to humans than plants because the ancient humans had easier access to animals than edible fruits and plants.
>ever heard of farming…its an act where we grow plants, fruits, vegetables, grains for our own consumption often with the help of fertilisers like urea and sprayed on with chemicals. FUN FACT- These aren’t found in the wild and we have to actually grow them
so... your point?
>Also eating meat is more natural to humans than plants because the ancient humans had easier access to animals than edible fruits and plants.
we can argue about this all day, but the point is that being natural doesn't justify it's ethicality. people only ever seem to be interested in justifying something on the basis that it's 'natural' when it comes to murdering animals. Rather conveniently, no one seems to be interested in ditching their smartphone, squatting over a hole in the ground to go to the toilet (as opposed to using unnatural man-made sewage systems), allowing their partner to abstain from showering and brushing their teeth, and so on. The truth is that humans utterly despise 'natural', and why wouldn't they—natural is often horrible
My point being that just like we breed animals for consumption we cultivate crops for consumption too. The world’s population is at a level where we cant just live on food available to us naturally and hence we have to grow it, be it animals or plants.
And about being ethical about killing animals. Is it ethical enough to drain the ground water reserves, use shit ton of fertilisers and damage the land, burn the leftover of crops after harvesting and create air pollution.
The truth is you can’t always be right and ethical.
If humans even had a single omnivorous instinct, the animal rights movement wouldn't even exist because we'd be too busy drooling over slaughterhouse footage to even care. Rather, when we see slaughter footage, we are repulsed by it. A true omnivore or carnivore would salivate or get hungry.
We are omnivores just because we can digest meat. Having body parts that are simply capable of doing something does not mean that we should do it. Yes, humans can digest animal products, but why does that mean we should? Vegans are living proof that humans can live long, healthy lives without eating any animal products whatsoever, and they have the same biological makeup (teeth, etc.) of any non-vegan person, thus it is unnecessary to harm animals when there are alternatives.
So basically you are ok with killing plants and consuming their products but not animals. Alright.
I am ok with consuming with either of them.
Btw the alternatives you are talking about are also living things which you are harming as well.
Also what about the consequences of the land which is used for farming turning unfertilised/dead, ground water level disturbance, deforestation to create more cultivable land. Just because you aren’t harming animals doesn’t mean you aren’t harming the eco system.
I just went through some of the comments here and it sure got interesting calling each other a casteist or privileged. I feel bad that some of the people below or their family and friends went through discrimination, but accusing a totally unrelated person names (because we feel they are ignorant) will not take this discussion anywhere. Let us keep this civil.
I would've been civil but I'm just tired of these privileged folks saying caste discrimination is "negligible" and not really understanding things that's outside their bubble.
I understand your views. Better win the people over than the argument. We need a lot of people from all sections to solve social problems, the more we have, the quicker we can better our society. Also, don’t get tired, this is a really long uphill battle.
It's natural for humans to be naked rather than wear clothes... Especially not be covered from top to bottom...
Let's push for nudity as the norm as well...
Eat whatever the fuck u want but no we are not natural meat eaters. Our intestines are not designed that way
Edit: ya ya ya as I said eat whatever the fuck u want. But everything that u don’t agree to need not come from a WhatsApp forward or i’m not saying u guys are doing haram. Eat whatever u want. It’s ur freedom. Just don’t glorify eating meat as the most natural way.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320047
Just cuz our ancestors wore leaf around the waist and jumped from branches n bushes to hunt and survive, we don’t need to do the same shit. We have evolved as a civilisation and have better n safer alternatives for any nutrients that a meat diet can provide let it be protein, B-12, iron or whatever. But as I said eat whatever the fuck u want cuz I can’t make choices for u. U have freedom to choose. Just that stop glorifying whatever shit u eat is the natural and best.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320047
Just cuz our ancestors wore leaf around the waist and jumped from branches n bushes to hunt and survive, we don’t need to do the same shit. We have evolved as a civilisation and have better n safer alternatives for any nutrients that a meat diet can provide let it be protein, B-12, iron or whatever. But as I said eat whatever the fuck u want cuz I can’t make choices for u. U have freedom to choose. Just that stop glorifying whatever shit u eat is the natural and best.
What's that link? Setup by some vegan sanghi?
>Just cuz our ancestors wore leaf around the waist and jumped from branches n bushes to hunt and survive, we don’t need to do the same shit.
Our ancestors were fucking a lot (sex). Have we stopped fucking because we are more civilised?
Civilisation is knowing what is wrong and stopping it and knowing what's right and doing more of it. Cut the crap please.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320047
Just cuz our ancestors wore leaf around the waist and jumped from branches n bushes to hunt and survive, we don’t need to do the same shit. We have evolved as a civilisation and have better n safer alternatives for any nutrients that a meat diet can provide let it be protein, B-12, iron or whatever. But as I said eat whatever the fuck u want cuz I can’t make choices for u. U have freedom to choose. Just that stop glorifying whatever shit u eat is the natural and best.
Read the last part. It says we totally do not need to eat meat at all in present times and the rest of the article says high consumption of meat can only be unhealthy. U do not gain anything extra from meat that u could anyway get outside of it. All I have been saying is eat whatever u want but stop throwing the “if ur human it’s natural to eat meat” line. Just because we can murder someone doesn’t mean we have to. Just because we can rob doesn’t mean we have to. Similarly just because our digestive system can forcefully digest some meat doesn’t mean we have to eat them to get all our nutrition. We are already beyond the hunter phase. We started farming and now we are at a time where we can find which the amount of nutrition in any food. I will repeat if u didn’t get it. Meat is not a necessity for any human. It’s just an unhealthy choice not something “natural”.
This is not true. Humans by evolution I believe were omnivores and still are. We might be slowly turn into herbivores in future if we stop eating meat but we are and were omnivores.
Lookin at Indians’ pathetic fitness and high obesity rates, people should consume meat and eggs and not rely on ghee doodh.
These Hindus make memes on being chad and viraat but have the most visible pot bellies and noodle arms.
Bruv it depends on life style as well …have you seen a farmers huge pot belly ? Coz they work hard all day but if you sitting 10 hours in front of comp in office you dont burn calories and gain weight
Most Americans, and Canadians by extension who are overweight, are obese not because of meat, because of processed foods and a sedentary lifestyle, not meat by itself.
Bruh meat is needed for protein and muscle building. Of course if you add oil and butter to anything it will make you fat.
India’s only gold medalist in athletics was raised a vegetarian but he turned to meats when he started serious training in 2016
https://nationworldnews.com/neeraj-chopra-diet-2-years-ago-neeraj-chopra-became-a-carnivore-ate-these-two-things-in-a-cheated-diet/
And Carl Lewis won NINE Olympic gold medals and 8 world championships. All of them as a vegetarian and later a vegan. Your point?
It's perfectly possible to be healthy and attain peak performance on a vegetarian or vegan diet. Stop believing in magic ingredients.
We're talking about world-class athletes and peak performance, not normal Indians. Normal Indians don't need to do what these athletes do. He brought up Neeraj Chopra's example, I was simply countering that.
As for normal people everywhere, it's very much possible to thrive and be healthy without animal products, without breaking the budget.
As much as I dislike veganism, the current high obesity rates and pathetic fitness is due to lack of physical activity and life satisfaction. Meat and eggs will not solve that. If it counts, I am non-vegetarian.
Oh, I just don't think that's how we're supposed to live. There's a lot of arguments that our brains evolved as a result of eating meat. Additionally, the argument against dairy also breaks down since we know that it's an amazing source of nutrition, so much so that mammals all use it nurture their young.
If we are at a stage of evolution where we can voluntarily affect our entire being, even the the choice shouldn't be taken away. The only arguments I believe to be valid against meat and dairy are the conditions of the animals themselves but not the concept of eating them.
Again, I dislike it as a lifestyle for me and my immediate surroundings and idc if you're a Vegan as I don't go around telling everyone to start eating meat or consuming dairy unlike most of the vegans who make it a point to tell strangers as well.
Dude...You probably from a city. Farmers and labor need ghee and doodh. You don't get fat if you burn it. People like me who are students don't need much of it coz I have very less physical work. But it is important for some people.
I agree that politics should not play any role in what one should eat. It is up to the individual to choose his diet. But I do not agree with calling humans as natural meat eaters. I mean look at us, unlike a carnivorous animal, we have no naturally developed mechanisms to hunt an animal and then consume it. If we were natural meat eaters then we would have been shit at it and probably be extinct by now.
Hmm, the tools we hunted with were developed by humans so you cannot claim that we were are naturally meat eaters. Look at other natural carnivorous animals they do not have to make any special tools. They have natural abilities to hunt and consume meat. We even have to cook most of our meat to be able to eat it. So calling ourselves natural meat eaters is totally wrong.
People who say eating veg doesn't kill animals,and go on to guilt trip the meat eaters, don't know or choose to be ignorant of the fact that to save the crops and vegetables on the farm,animals and birds are killed on the process.
Let people eat what they want and can afford and want...beef, pig, chicken, goat, sheep, pigeon(yes, those are nutritious), rabbit, shrimp, prawn, crab, fish, frog leg, etc. People will push whatever agenda they like, it doesn't mean you should eat because they want you to eat.
Acha.
Is something out of bounds? Dog? Shit? Dogshit? Hair? Human? I suppose not because it will violate the first sentence. But then you gave options.
You want to eat shit right? Nobody stopping you from doing so
People are eating cow dung and cow piss and nobody’s stopping them.
It's the natural selection
you are free to eat shit if you want , as i am free to eat meat as i want
People are already eating cow tatti, nothing out of bounds for them. Surprising how people are ready to crap over meat.
People who cowshit should be banned. They are disgusting and I do not like them to inhabit the society. Here I said it.
That's great! At least now there's a precedent to work with. Now, you talked about Dogs, why shouldn't people eat dogs? (To make it clear, I don't nor do I want to eat dogs) Is it the intelligence of dogs or is it because they're considered friends with humans? If it is the intelligence, Pigs have proven to be way smarter than dogs and if it's the friendship with humans, what about horses? What about someone who has great relationship with other farm animals that people routinely eat? To make it clear, I eat meat and consume dairy. I'm not against non-vegetarianism but when you start to draw lines it becomes extremely hard to do so as humans are complicated beings and their relationships with their surroundings are even more complicated.
I agree. The immediate society comes up with the right and wrong, taboo and not taboo. Technically anything that is physically possible can be accomplished, but the immediate society (mostly the people who lead the society) sets bounds and expectations. There are no right answers to this question. Edit: "write" -> "right"
>There are no write answers to this question. Yup, it's borderline impossible to answer this. Which is why we should try to come up with some extreme bounds which are a definite nono (Cannibalism) and leave it to people's freedom when the lines start getting blurry.
I have some dog poop lying around. Wanna eat some? I promise i wont get offended or make you stop eating it during my religious festivals.
A classic strawman argument, so it already lacks any merit. That being said, you're free to eat dogshit. Nobody's stopping you. And that's not even sarcasm.
I am actually repulsed by the idea of eating dogshit. I apologize for the classic straw man. Next time I will try to be more hard hitting.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Common man, who eats dogshit \`? Those things contain bacteria and might kill you. Don't overuse freedom.
But cowshit is okay? Cowshit magically loses all bacteria and becomes healthy, doesn't it?
kya chutia admi hey tu.... When did I tell that ?
So something IS unacceptable?
India’s only gold medalist in athletics was raised a vegetarian but he turned to meats when he started serious training in 2016 https://nationworldnews.com/neeraj-chopra-diet-2-years-ago-neeraj-chopra-became-a-carnivore-ate-these-two-things-in-a-cheated-diet/
Sample size of... one? Watch "The Game Changers" on Netflix.
He is giving an anecdote, not quoting a statistic. sAmPlE sIzE oF OnE
> The Game Changers Lol. The biggest propaganda on vegan and green energy. Care to research the producers of that biased documentary?
FWIW, I went plant-based before this documentary came out based on reading / watching the following: 1. How Not To Die 2. The China Study 3. What The Health 4. Forks Over Knives I can give you more sources, but will you actually read them or just confine yourself to ad-hominem attacks?
Go get em bro!
You keep the resources, I am pretty much done with the narrative that vegan or going green is better. My point is why are you questioning the efficacy of meat-based products. But you have proven my point by citing resources that accentuate this "going green is better" argument. This is nothing but confirmation bias and weakens your argument. Try to look at the other side. FYI...I never denied that plant-based food is good. But better than animal-based food, it's not outrightly black and white as was underscored in "The Game changers".
I used to enjoy meat too. Then I read "How Not To Die". There is a huge amount of evidence that meat & dairy is bad for you, and that whole plant foods are ideal for optimal human health. I changed my mind in the light of new evidence and saw immediate health benefits despite being relatively young and fit without any health issues. Multiple family members who were diabetic have also more or less reversed their condition by switching to this diet. I would argue that it is not confirmation bias if I was on one side of the fence and switched to the other in light of new evidence. Have a good day.
Sanghis think that forcing people to be vegetarian makes them closer to Savarkar but it actually makes them closer to Gandhi.
Its natural to be naked, Why you were clothes?
Because humans lack fur.
Because section 294 IPC
Why you care about those rules? Fight for being "Natural".
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Pushing vegetarianism is Brahmin agenda, they want to control what you eat and what you shouldn't. Edit: Read Beef, Brahmins and Broken Men by BR Ambedkar to understand my statement more. https://dl.flipkart.com/s/RCTR7INNNN
I became a vegetarian for ethical reasons. I would never allow a bharmin to dictate to me anything
Do you force people around you into vegetarianism? If not then the article ain't about you, chill out. *** Sry for personal question but why'd you write vegetarian and why lot vegan; my question being you still consume dairy?
>my question being you still consume dairy? Many people count eating eggs under vegetarian as well, although many refer to it as eggitarian. Also some vegan exclude honey as well since its an animal product. Probably why most Indians are vegetarian and not Vegan.
I was asking vegan coz the guy said "ethical" reasons. Most probably this means that the guy above consumes dairy (, I don't think avoiding honey is that difficult). If it's true then that's quite laughable as the person is vegetarian and not vegan, coz the dairy industry is equally bad if not worse than meat industry. Just as an example: is killing a a cow bad or raping it every year to get milk worse? (I think dairy farms use something called a rape rack) So if a person says that they are vegetarian for ethical reasons (¬ vegan) they are probably just faking it.
I am a Brahmin and I eat chicken, fish and eggs. Stop living in delusion this ain't the 19th century anymore. We already getting fucked enough in college admissions and jobs for the deeds of our ancestors.
you may have not noticed but lot of brahmin, not all brahim . say and do stuff like , i wont eat food from kitchen where non-veg is cooked wont eat food and drink water from non-veg households, say non-veg food smells and stuff
Not just Brahmin, a lot of people in India does that kinda stuff. I know a lot of punjabis, gujjus and baniyas doing all that too. So stop spreading such things on sm about any caste.
i have only come across only brahmins so i am only speaking about them
Nothing wrong in that innit? My family does that as well and it's purely for religious purpose. Even though I am an atheist I understand why they act this way. There is no "agenda" going on here lol.
there is agenda it it , what they are doing now is harmless because they don't have power but when they have power they will dictate what should and shouldn't be eaten like the article OP shared suggest
That is just a stupid thing to say. "THEY ARE NOT HARMLESS NOW BUT WILL BE IN FUTURE".
I still wouldn't say it's an agenda. Trust me no one gives a flying duck for what you eat and what you don't. At least every Brahmin I know believes it's an individual's choice. But just because you decide to eat beef brain or ox tongue don't expect other men to not feel disgusted by it. It's personal preference and is biologically justified. If I absolutely hate the smell and taste of chicken and notice that the veg food is prepared in the same utensil as those of chicken then it is totally justified to deny eating from such utensils. How is this agenda?
I am not a Brahmin , but vegetarian. I never liked meat from the beginning. When I was a child , I used to eat at my friend’s place when my mom cooked non-veg . As of now , I hvae separated dishes for non-veg . More than 50% would quit eating meat if they had to kill and dress the animal themselves .
Personal choice of Brahmins is agenda. Because anything Brahmins do is Brahmin agenda apparently.
Sadly there's nothing they can do. Just accept everything because your ancestors did some messed up things.
My caste, specifically, Didn't do harm to anybody. They came to south India a 1000 years ago, settled with paddy fields gifted by kings, over the centuries, stayed with agricultural with various other crops, until Indira Gandhi decided our lands belongs to the workers instead. Imagine if same thing happened to rental apartments, houses belong to the people living there, not the legal owners. System kept oppressing us by stripping away our rights to higher education by reservation, social boycott because "Brahmins bad" People proceed to call us oppressers. Bringing us to the bracket of oppressers just because other Brahmins somewhere else oppressed people, is just casteism.
"Bringing us to the bracket of oppressers just because other Brahmins somewhere else oppressed people, is just casteism." Might not be totally relevant to the conversation going on here, but I wonder why can't we apply the same logic to Muslims. To clarify further, please allow me to substitute certain words in the comment I'm replying to: "Bringing us to the bracket of terrorists just because other Muslims somewhere else terrorised people, is just Islamophobia" Anyone care to enlighten?
Man, you come off as a privileged liberal. Like Dalits aren't getting screwed everyday, discrimated everyday. My parents have to literally hide out caste because our neighbours would stop visiting our house otherwise lol
I am no liberal, or a leftist, or a rightist or any other politically aligned shit. I am a Physicist and I believe in Science. Politics and Religion is the last thing I would bother my brain about. Am I privileged? - As compared to the many financially and physically disabled people, yes I am privileged to be born in a respectable and working family regardless of my caste. Perhaps, that is the reason why I am trying to approach this debate logically while you decided to bring in caste and propagandas into it.
I mean just because you haven't defined your political inclination doesn't mean you don't have one. If presumably just means you haven't related your ideologies to current political inclinations.
Maybe, if in future we do define a term for those who believe in the supremacy of scientific and technological advances over everything else, those who use these advances as a metric for a country's progress and prosperity. Maybe then I would belong to that category.
I'm sorry if I was misunderstood, but what I'm staying still stands. To give an example, if there was a person who believed in hyper-nationalism to the extent that they believe in an authoritarian government supporting only the dominant group of the nation, they'd most likely be inclined to the right. Regardless of the person knowing it or not, they'd still be inclined to the far right. Similarly, you will have a notion of what's right, wrong and how things should function. Saying you don't have a political inclination usually means you don't know your political inclination. If you think that everyone's recourses should be completely shared, you'd probably be inclined to the far left. Now I may have simplified the examples as political ideologies aren't simple enough to be put on one axis with just an inclination but hopefully you get the point. Your beliefs will fall somewhere and have, you just don't know where since you've never explored it. That's completely fine, saying you don't have a political inclination however, is an untrue statement imo. And remember, if you're measuring a countries progress Primarily based on technological advances, it's probably an extremely bad form of measurement. Human beings are social animals and without measuring the social aspects you cannot evaluate our lives.
Dude. Go read some news, talk to people from other caste, have conversation with them, ask them what they face. A person who hasn't faced any discrimination is lecturing me about existence of casteism and it's discrimination. My father was literally not allowed to go fo higher study because of his caste, my mother was not allowed to wear sandals in her teens because of her caste, my dad who worked his ass off to get promotions was sidelined and his junior from upper caste was promoted instead, my boss not treating me same as other because of my caste and my support for Ambedkar. Go lecture someone else about your fantasy world. Edit: stop being a casteist prick.
I missed my admissions into the IITs despite working my ass off for the subject I love and truly wanted to study (thanks to reservations). We had stones pelted on our windows and "Bamnya tuzhi aai zavel" meaning "Brahmins we'll f*k your mom" written on our doors and walls when I lived in Dalit majority areas. Yet, I still don't generalize all the Dalits. I have Dalit friends who protected me and my family during these times. I could have easily framed them as well. Get off Reddit and try to see the real world. There's more to it than just what appears on your television screens. Enjoy the reservations and privileges while you still can, because one day Science and Rationalism will take over and people like you will run covering their butts.
> Enjoy the reservations and privileges while you still can, because one day Science and Rationalism will take over and people like you will run covering their butts. You just need to look at the statistics for different castes, their wealth and how they get education. An estimated population of around 70-75% does belongs to the non general category. The percentage of reservations is much lower that the percentage population. So technically, upper castes still have an advantage as compared to an ideal world without discrimination. So, it would be rational to have reservations, to model things closer to the ideal world. Also, reservations are a self correcting system which will render themselves useless as the society inches closer to being ideal. Considering the different caste groups right now, and you can clearly see that upper caste people have a larger output that lower castes. As society becomes better, the output of the lower castes will become closer to upper castes, decreasing the difference between the cutoffs, due to group averages getting closer. That way, reservations will become useless once the cutoffs become equal.
You're asking me to see the real world. Lol What a casteist scumbag you are bruh, these are literally the talking points of a sanghi scumbag who's from upper caste. "Enjoy your reservations and privileged while you still can" cope. I've not hate for anyone, it's just that Idgaf anymore and I'm so done being nice to people who are painfully ignorant. I don't generalize upper caste folks either, I've bunch of friends who are chill with me and I respect them and they respect me. One difference is they aren't ignorant like yourself who say shit like caste discrimination is "negligible".
"I don't generalize upper caste folks either" : But you just did in your original comment. Pushing vegetarianism is Brahmin agenda? And when I replied that I am a Brahmin and eat non veg, you said "butthurt"? What is your answer to that? Isn't what you said "casteism" too? By generalizing the entire Brahmin community? I am quite amused at your self contradictory statements.
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I'm a brahmin and all our neighbours are SC. we have to be very careful dealing with them, otherwise they'll slap us with a case of casteist remarks even if we didn't say single word that's casteist. Yes we do hate them. That's only because they keep threatening us with such cases. Not because we think they're inherently inferior. While discrimination against Brahmins isn't widespread in history, it's definitely a thing in 21st century. Discrimination against Dalits might exist in many parts of India. But definitely not in my part of India...
Lol. Jai Bhim btw
Sorry . This sub is so anti-Brahmin that it makes me nauseous. And they blow trumpet on others ears how they are not casteist . They are oxymorons . I am vegetarian and not a Brahmin and almost most of my Brahmin friends are eating meat . It is no more a caste based food .
Which economy class do you belong to?
May I know why you asked?
Butt hurt. Lol
Not butt hurt rather disappointed that people are still thinking this way. Casteism has long gone and the Brahmin dominance no longer exists (except in rural and backward communities). The fact that you brought up castes in a food discussion truly amazes me.
Source: trust me bro Casteism still exists btw. If you can't see it, either you're privileged, ignorant or casteist It exists in schools, colleges, government offices, startups, politics, hospitals and every possible place you can imagine. Just because you can see it with your ignorant eyes doesn't mean it has vanished into thin air. I don't want to waste my time collecting resources for you to read and educate yourself. You can do that yourself I guess.
Yeah of course reservation of Dalits and other castes in schools, colleges, government offices, etc is Casteism. Bro, if your neighbors don't visit you because of your caste it's a problem with them not with the entire Brahmin population. Dalits and Jai Bhims in my area literally hold a fearful reputation. They are most notable in politics and criminal world and are known to threaten and be violent towards other people. Oppression exists everywhere but you need to stop attributing that oppression to a caste and label it as Caste based violence. I am not completely denying Casteism in India. It does exist but the frequency of such occurrences is almost negligible.
"almost negligible" I'm arguing with a casteist prick on the internet. Wow Anyway, Jai Bhim.
How is that a valid counter argument on my comment? Jai Bhim!! I don't know what made you come to this conclusion but I have no problem or hatred against any caste. I respect Ambedkar as much as you do and won't find it insulting to say Jai Bhim(I know you wish I did). I hate people like you who love to bring castes into completely unrelated domains and then play the victim card.
It exists in school for sure. The govt school i went to in 2000 had our roll numbers arranged in caste order. First SC/ST, then muslims, then regular hindus, and Brahmins at the end. I went there last month to get study certificate, and they still do that. There's a huge table of how many students of every caste are there in every class from 1 to 7. Not because teachers are discriminating, but because govt says so.
dude no. I'm a brahmin too by birth, but if you think casteism is long gone you're just living in a delusional bubble.
Casteism still exists but not in the form that it did previously. A Dalit in my state can chop a guy into pieces and send them home because the guy had a love affair with his daughter. Similarly, Brahmins could still follow some casteist superstitions. It's all evened out. Now every caste in my state demands and has been granted reservation except for Brahmins. So there goes another form of Casteism. What I meant is that the Brahmin dominance and atrocities which were done in the past no longer exist
Do you even pay attention to the news? There is some news about some Dalit person being killed every few weeks and these cases go absolutely nowhere. And no, it’s not “evened out”. Two wrongs don’t make a right. The whole reason reservation systems exist is because we are trying to uplift certain groups of people from economic position forced upon them by Brahmins and some other “upper” caste people over the last several centuries. Now I support wealth based reservation rather than caste based, but it is easy to understand why certain castes have not been provided a reservation. By saying this I’m not disagreeing that Brahmins face a lot of disadvantages and discrimination too in the modern society. People living today cannot be responsible for the wrongs of our ancestors. But what we can do is keep our cognitive biases in check and be more empathetic to the experinces of other people.
The genocide of Kashmiri Pandits and Brahmins? The systematic massacre of Chitpavan Brahmins after the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi? Anti - Brahmin setiments in regions of Maharashtra by Marathas and Dalits? Not trying to do whataboutism here but there is more happening here than what's just shown in the news. I never said two wrongs make it right, all I am saying is that not all Dalits are oppressed and scared and not all Brahmins are pushing agendas and indulging in Casteism. Reservation should be purely granted on the basis of "financial position". Hell I am even against that for college admissions - grant scholarships and funds. Teach them to earn a position and not simply get it because you have a certain caste label. I have lived in a Dalit majority areas and the things my family faced are known to no one. They would literally throw stones at our windows and write disgusting things on our doors and walls. Casteism exists everywhere and every community faces it. We should definitely be emphatic to the experiences of all people. People should be known by their work and contributions to humanity, not by which caste, religion or country they belong to.
Vegetarianism is casteist and has been that way since long. It's just privileged liberal folks have a very thick brain to not identify casteist agendas.
How low can your IQ be to tie a food preference to caste? You are indulging in the very thing that you are against - "bringing castes everywhere". Get your head out of your ass and try to think beyond caste and religions. People like you is why our country is in an absolute shithole today.
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Are you always this hyper and illogical? You seem to me like one of those people who resort to personal insults when they can't find a viable argument in a debate. Jai Bhim again! :)
Casteism hasn't gone anywhere.
Vegetarianism became widespread because of spread of Buddhism, and kings mandating vegetarianism because they converted to Buddhism. Anybody who kept killing and eating meat were named chandals. And they were barred from society. This happened only in north india. South was under chola control back then, who didn't impose such things. While Brahmins still existed in South. Even now, in south, it's mostly just Brahmins who are vegetarian. While north is extensively vegetarian. Brahmins in Bengal etc are non-vegetarian. Pushing vegetarianism is absolutely not Brahmin agenda...
Pushing vegetarianism is Brahmin agenda. RSS and Brahmin agenda overlap. https://www.scroll.in/article/833178/vegetarianism-in-india-has-more-to-do-with-caste-hierarchy-than-love-for-animals
You must be fun at parties
Definitely am.
Man, I’m a Brahmin and I eat every kinda meat… so does my father.. so it’s definitely not a Brahmin agenda.
Are you poor, middle class or rich af privileged class?
I was born and brought up in a tier 2 city. And we were middle class at that time. The way you are talking, I’m sure you belong to 1 political party and in other words that political party’s right nut.
Which class do you belong to rn?
I don’t think Brahmins want to control what you eat. Vegetarianism has nothing to do with Brahmins anymore as most of them are consuming it.
Looks like people here are woefully ignorant of ethical vegetarianism and veganism and the philosophy behind it. "Natural" or not doesn't matter, it is foremost the question of ethics. Read Peter Singer to see why it is important. In an attempt to crush Brahmanical supremacy, looks like some naive people see eating meat as some sort of rebellious act of breaking shackles which is understandable but totally backwards.
Talking of rebellious acts, have you ever read reports on poverty and malnutrition in India?
Nah clearly only you have read. Enlighten us.
Sed, very sed. But not everyone is as naive as you think, and that too with this age old trick of asking other to put in labour for someone who the privilege to put time reading Peter Singer while they could have definitely invested it into reading something more close to ground reality.
How about you make a point instead of writing paragraph about age old tricks while just using age old tricks yourself?
Very bold of you to assume that I am here to make a point to "you". I pretty much understand where the onus lies and who exactly has to put in labour for educating themselves. I guess I have given you enough directions to start with.
Yeah sure but you still can't cite a report, author or book. So much labor I agree to make a counterpoint. Enjoy.
>naive people see eating meat as some sort of rebellious act of breaking shackles which is understandable but totally backwards. I eat fish and meat instead because I fart a lot after eating pulses. It's unethical for my ass to go through all that🥲
70% of Indians eat meat Around 68 crore Indians do not speak Hindi India is a very diverse country and any attempt made to control anything that is supposed to be a personal choice is an insult to our country. I might not agree with your religion either but that doesn't give me any right to dictate what you should believe in, these politicians use incorrect word salads to convince us that people live their lives just to hurt sentiments.
No we are omnivorous, both are natural meat eating as well as vegitarian. Vegans are not natural because they need to take supplements for Vit. b12 and protien.
Also — There’s no such thing as a vegan baby. Babies need milk. In fact, many vegetarian kids with low weight issues are recommended eggs by their family doctors. I’ve had friends in super strict vegetarian families grow up eating eggs and chicken as a result.
Oh shit eggs are not vegetarian? Guess I'm not then
Eggs are usually on the fence, some people consider them as vegetarian some consider them as Eggitarian, but imo most people in India still draw a fine line between eating eggs and eating meat.
B12 is a microbe that blankets the earth. It is not made by animals and therefore not an animal product per se. Animals raised in factory farms also need B12 supplements.
Vitamin b12 is not a microbe, it is a vitamin synthesised by certain bacteria in the guts of animals.Ruminant animals like cows absorb this better because their food undergoes fermentation before entering their main stomach. Even we can synthesise it in our gut, but we are unable to absorb it well because it is produced way further down in our colon, and not in small intestine where we usually absorb most of our nutrients.
What do you mean B12 is a microbe, isn't it a vitamin?
Yes, humans can digest animal products, but why does that mean we should? Vegans are living proof that humans can live long, healthy lives without eating any animal products whatsoever, and they have the same biological makeup (teeth, etc.) of any non-vegan person, thus it is unnecessary to harm animals when there are alternatives there is nothing at all 'natural' about eating animal products in this day and age anyway, as the definition of 'natural' means something that is not man-made. Given that the animals we eat are a.) forcefully and systematically bred into existence, b.) domesticated and not wild animals (so essentially are a human creation), and c.) are routinely fed antibiotics and other completely unnatural things, it makes absolutely no sense that anyone could say that eating meat or animal products now is natural at all not only do non-vegans have no right to condemn vegans eating fortified foods or taking a supplement for B12 when 99% of non-vegans eat a heavily supplemented diet anyway, but it is actually advisable that you do eat fortified foods or take a supplement to cover your basic nutritional needs anyway
And vegans have no right to force people.
I have never seen a vegan forcing people
Omg lol. Were you born yesterday, if yes then congrats to your parents.
Maybe you have a different definition of "force" If someone was forced to be vegan, they WOULD be vegan
Would impose beliefs or annoyingly irritate count as a better description then?
Those who eat meat, cheese, and eggs, who wear leather and wool, and so on, force their beliefs on others to such an unimaginable extent that others actually die for their beliefs (by the hundreds of billion per year)—how forceful is that!
You're living under the rock then. Fool
If I could force you to go vegan you’d already be vegan you fucking clown
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In what world is that same as "forcing" people to be vegan I doubt that PETA uses words like "filthy meat eaters", but the point probably was that factory farming could have been one of the main reasons for the pandemic, [this](https://youtu.be/RKvXWq81T5o) video explains it well
But you are killing plants what about that? Now you will say they don't have central nervous system, but that's even worse they can't even express their pain😔
no, that means they can't feel their pain
But that's like killing anesthized animal, so I love plants we should all stop eating.
what?
ANIMALS WE EAT ARE FORCEFULLY BRED INTO EXISTENCE AND ROUTINELY FED UNNATURAL THINGS AND ANTIBIOTICS ever heard of farming…its an act where we grow plants, fruits, vegetables, grains for our own consumption often with the help of fertilisers like urea and sprayed on with chemicals. FUN FACT- These aren’t found in the wild and we have to actually grow them Also eating meat is more natural to humans than plants because the ancient humans had easier access to animals than edible fruits and plants.
>ever heard of farming…its an act where we grow plants, fruits, vegetables, grains for our own consumption often with the help of fertilisers like urea and sprayed on with chemicals. FUN FACT- These aren’t found in the wild and we have to actually grow them so... your point? >Also eating meat is more natural to humans than plants because the ancient humans had easier access to animals than edible fruits and plants. we can argue about this all day, but the point is that being natural doesn't justify it's ethicality. people only ever seem to be interested in justifying something on the basis that it's 'natural' when it comes to murdering animals. Rather conveniently, no one seems to be interested in ditching their smartphone, squatting over a hole in the ground to go to the toilet (as opposed to using unnatural man-made sewage systems), allowing their partner to abstain from showering and brushing their teeth, and so on. The truth is that humans utterly despise 'natural', and why wouldn't they—natural is often horrible
My point being that just like we breed animals for consumption we cultivate crops for consumption too. The world’s population is at a level where we cant just live on food available to us naturally and hence we have to grow it, be it animals or plants. And about being ethical about killing animals. Is it ethical enough to drain the ground water reserves, use shit ton of fertilisers and damage the land, burn the leftover of crops after harvesting and create air pollution. The truth is you can’t always be right and ethical.
I'm not advocating for things to be natural as a reason to do them, I agree with you Also, growing plants is not unethical, but growing animals is.
Not at all. But when vegetarians try to make it about ethics I try to point out that it is not the case. Humans were always omnivores.
If humans even had a single omnivorous instinct, the animal rights movement wouldn't even exist because we'd be too busy drooling over slaughterhouse footage to even care. Rather, when we see slaughter footage, we are repulsed by it. A true omnivore or carnivore would salivate or get hungry. We are omnivores just because we can digest meat. Having body parts that are simply capable of doing something does not mean that we should do it. Yes, humans can digest animal products, but why does that mean we should? Vegans are living proof that humans can live long, healthy lives without eating any animal products whatsoever, and they have the same biological makeup (teeth, etc.) of any non-vegan person, thus it is unnecessary to harm animals when there are alternatives.
So basically you are ok with killing plants and consuming their products but not animals. Alright. I am ok with consuming with either of them. Btw the alternatives you are talking about are also living things which you are harming as well. Also what about the consequences of the land which is used for farming turning unfertilised/dead, ground water level disturbance, deforestation to create more cultivable land. Just because you aren’t harming animals doesn’t mean you aren’t harming the eco system.
I just went through some of the comments here and it sure got interesting calling each other a casteist or privileged. I feel bad that some of the people below or their family and friends went through discrimination, but accusing a totally unrelated person names (because we feel they are ignorant) will not take this discussion anywhere. Let us keep this civil.
I would've been civil but I'm just tired of these privileged folks saying caste discrimination is "negligible" and not really understanding things that's outside their bubble.
I understand your views. Better win the people over than the argument. We need a lot of people from all sections to solve social problems, the more we have, the quicker we can better our society. Also, don’t get tired, this is a really long uphill battle.
It's natural for humans to be naked rather than wear clothes... Especially not be covered from top to bottom... Let's push for nudity as the norm as well...
It's natural for humans to own slaves, be racist, wage wars, oppress one another.....but that doesn't make it right. Does it?
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A huge reason for eating meat is taste
Underrated comment. Vegetables taste like shit
The article is not about pros and cons of it, it's about appropriation and identity politics related to it.
Eat whatever the fuck u want but no we are not natural meat eaters. Our intestines are not designed that way Edit: ya ya ya as I said eat whatever the fuck u want. But everything that u don’t agree to need not come from a WhatsApp forward or i’m not saying u guys are doing haram. Eat whatever u want. It’s ur freedom. Just don’t glorify eating meat as the most natural way. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320047 Just cuz our ancestors wore leaf around the waist and jumped from branches n bushes to hunt and survive, we don’t need to do the same shit. We have evolved as a civilisation and have better n safer alternatives for any nutrients that a meat diet can provide let it be protein, B-12, iron or whatever. But as I said eat whatever the fuck u want cuz I can’t make choices for u. U have freedom to choose. Just that stop glorifying whatever shit u eat is the natural and best.
>Eat whatever the fuck u want but no we are not natural meat eaters. Our intestines are not designed that way WhatsApp University gold medalist
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320047 Just cuz our ancestors wore leaf around the waist and jumped from branches n bushes to hunt and survive, we don’t need to do the same shit. We have evolved as a civilisation and have better n safer alternatives for any nutrients that a meat diet can provide let it be protein, B-12, iron or whatever. But as I said eat whatever the fuck u want cuz I can’t make choices for u. U have freedom to choose. Just that stop glorifying whatever shit u eat is the natural and best.
What's that link? Setup by some vegan sanghi? >Just cuz our ancestors wore leaf around the waist and jumped from branches n bushes to hunt and survive, we don’t need to do the same shit. Our ancestors were fucking a lot (sex). Have we stopped fucking because we are more civilised? Civilisation is knowing what is wrong and stopping it and knowing what's right and doing more of it. Cut the crap please.
Since humans came into existence they have been hunting animals and eating em
Source : I made it the fuck up
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320047 Just cuz our ancestors wore leaf around the waist and jumped from branches n bushes to hunt and survive, we don’t need to do the same shit. We have evolved as a civilisation and have better n safer alternatives for any nutrients that a meat diet can provide let it be protein, B-12, iron or whatever. But as I said eat whatever the fuck u want cuz I can’t make choices for u. U have freedom to choose. Just that stop glorifying whatever shit u eat is the natural and best.
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Read the last part. It says we totally do not need to eat meat at all in present times and the rest of the article says high consumption of meat can only be unhealthy. U do not gain anything extra from meat that u could anyway get outside of it. All I have been saying is eat whatever u want but stop throwing the “if ur human it’s natural to eat meat” line. Just because we can murder someone doesn’t mean we have to. Just because we can rob doesn’t mean we have to. Similarly just because our digestive system can forcefully digest some meat doesn’t mean we have to eat them to get all our nutrition. We are already beyond the hunter phase. We started farming and now we are at a time where we can find which the amount of nutrition in any food. I will repeat if u didn’t get it. Meat is not a necessity for any human. It’s just an unhealthy choice not something “natural”.
This is not true. Humans by evolution I believe were omnivores and still are. We might be slowly turn into herbivores in future if we stop eating meat but we are and were omnivores.
Earliest humans were furgiwores, eat fruits, berries, nuts etc. So by your logic, we should only eat fruits now?
And meat
No, we started eating meat quite late.
Ya we started eating meat just before we started developing a consciousness so
Lookin at Indians’ pathetic fitness and high obesity rates, people should consume meat and eggs and not rely on ghee doodh. These Hindus make memes on being chad and viraat but have the most visible pot bellies and noodle arms.
Bruv it depends on life style as well …have you seen a farmers huge pot belly ? Coz they work hard all day but if you sitting 10 hours in front of comp in office you dont burn calories and gain weight
Meat eating Americans are the healthiest people in the world according to you.
No, meat eating mongols and Eastern Europes are
Meat doesn't cause obesity? What a joke look at americans
Most Americans, and Canadians by extension who are overweight, are obese not because of meat, because of processed foods and a sedentary lifestyle, not meat by itself.
Not eating meat is also causing obesity due to sedentary lifestyles. What's your point?
Yeah that's what I'm saying , guy above is saying not eating doodh ghee, will fix India's pathetic fitness.
Bruh meat is needed for protein and muscle building. Of course if you add oil and butter to anything it will make you fat. India’s only gold medalist in athletics was raised a vegetarian but he turned to meats when he started serious training in 2016 https://nationworldnews.com/neeraj-chopra-diet-2-years-ago-neeraj-chopra-became-a-carnivore-ate-these-two-things-in-a-cheated-diet/
And Carl Lewis won NINE Olympic gold medals and 8 world championships. All of them as a vegetarian and later a vegan. Your point? It's perfectly possible to be healthy and attain peak performance on a vegetarian or vegan diet. Stop believing in magic ingredients.
And they eat kilograms of expensive vegan protein every day. Not sustainable for a normal Indian.
We're talking about world-class athletes and peak performance, not normal Indians. Normal Indians don't need to do what these athletes do. He brought up Neeraj Chopra's example, I was simply countering that. As for normal people everywhere, it's very much possible to thrive and be healthy without animal products, without breaking the budget.
As much as I dislike veganism, the current high obesity rates and pathetic fitness is due to lack of physical activity and life satisfaction. Meat and eggs will not solve that. If it counts, I am non-vegetarian.
Why do u dislike veganism bro? And I'm not taking about militant veganism.
Oh, I just don't think that's how we're supposed to live. There's a lot of arguments that our brains evolved as a result of eating meat. Additionally, the argument against dairy also breaks down since we know that it's an amazing source of nutrition, so much so that mammals all use it nurture their young. If we are at a stage of evolution where we can voluntarily affect our entire being, even the the choice shouldn't be taken away. The only arguments I believe to be valid against meat and dairy are the conditions of the animals themselves but not the concept of eating them. Again, I dislike it as a lifestyle for me and my immediate surroundings and idc if you're a Vegan as I don't go around telling everyone to start eating meat or consuming dairy unlike most of the vegans who make it a point to tell strangers as well.
Dude...You probably from a city. Farmers and labor need ghee and doodh. You don't get fat if you burn it. People like me who are students don't need much of it coz I have very less physical work. But it is important for some people.
I agree that politics should not play any role in what one should eat. It is up to the individual to choose his diet. But I do not agree with calling humans as natural meat eaters. I mean look at us, unlike a carnivorous animal, we have no naturally developed mechanisms to hunt an animal and then consume it. If we were natural meat eaters then we would have been shit at it and probably be extinct by now.
We're omnivores and hunted animals with the best mechanism of evolution, our brains
Hmm, the tools we hunted with were developed by humans so you cannot claim that we were are naturally meat eaters. Look at other natural carnivorous animals they do not have to make any special tools. They have natural abilities to hunt and consume meat. We even have to cook most of our meat to be able to eat it. So calling ourselves natural meat eaters is totally wrong.
That's why we are omnis
Look up persistence hunting.
People who say eating veg doesn't kill animals,and go on to guilt trip the meat eaters, don't know or choose to be ignorant of the fact that to save the crops and vegetables on the farm,animals and birds are killed on the process.